What to read this summer

Summary

Post Reports: What to Read This Summer
Published on May 26, 2025
Hosts: Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi, with guest experts John Jacob Brogan and John Williams from The Washington Post's Bookworld section.

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Introduction to Summer Reading

In this episode of Post Reports, hosts Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi, along with John Jacob Brogan and John Williams from The Washington Post's Bookworld section, embark on a literary journey to curate the perfect summer reading list. Focusing on diverse genres and reader preferences, the discussion aims to cater to everyone from history enthusiasts to those seeking light-hearted escapism.

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1. The "Doorstopper" Category: Immersive, Thick Reads

John Williams initiates the conversation by exploring the "doorstopper" category—massive, substantial books ideal for readers looking to dive deep into lengthy narratives over the summer.

• Mark Twain Biography by Ron Chernow:
  John Jacob Brogan highlights Ron Chernow's latest endeavor, a comprehensive 1,100-page biography of Mark Twain. Recognized as one of the finest historians, Chernow delves into the life of America's quintessential writer, offering an expansive look that appeals to both Twain aficionados and Chernow's loyal readership.

  "With Mark Twain, he takes about 1100 pages to tell the story of the author of Huck Finn and many other books," (04:59)

• William F. Buckley Jr. Biography by Sam Tanenhaus:
  Scheduled for release on June 3rd, this biography by Sam Tanenhaus promises a narrative as gripping as a novel. Buckley, the founder of National Review magazine, is portrayed as a pivotal figure in shaping the conservative movement, with Tanenhaus offering an in-depth, dramatic exploration of his life.

  "It really reads like a novel," (05:29)

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2. Books for the Great Outdoors: Embracing Nature

For those planning to enjoy reading amidst nature, the conversation shifts to recommendations that complement the serene environment.

• "Is a River Alive" by Robert Macfarlane:
  Jacobs Brogan enthusiastically recommends Macfarlane's latest work, praising his poetic prose and deep connection to natural landscapes. He shares a captivating excerpt that immerses listeners in the birth and enduring presence of a river.

  "12,000 years ago, a river is born in a hollow at the foot of a hill..." (07:31)

  John Jacob Brogan adds:

  "It's poetry. He's a beautiful writer." (08:28)

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3. Fiction for Escapist Vibes: Engaging and Light Reads

Acknowledging the summer's leisurely pace, the hosts discuss novels that offer escapism and engrossing narratives without overwhelming the reader.

• "King of Ashes" by S.A. Cosby:
  John Jacob introduces this upcoming thriller set to release on June 10th. Cosby's reputation for crafting Southern, action-packed stories makes "King of Ashes" a compelling choice for readers seeking adventure and high-stakes drama.

  "They're very violent and bloody... people chase each other and hurt each other." (09:24)

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4. Graphic Novels: Visual Storytelling at Its Best

Highlighting the unique blend of art and narrative, the discussion turns to graphic novels that offer profound storytelling through illustrations.

• "Spent" by Alison Bechdel:
  Jacob Brogan expresses excitement for Bechdel's novel, contrasting it with her acclaimed memoirs. "Spent" features a fictionalized Alison Bechdel interacting with characters from her earlier works, exploring themes of aging, desire, and community with a lighter touch.

  "It's a book about getting older, about rediscovering desire, pleasure, community..." (10:22)

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5. Tailored Book Recommendations: Listener Requests

The hosts engage with listener-submitted requests, providing personalized book suggestions to meet specific reading desires.

• Maggie Penman’s Request:
  Maggie seeks a captivating book that remains non-disturbing.

  • "Crush" by Ada Calhoun:
    Explores an open marriage through intellectual courtship and heartfelt correspondence, offering depth without darkness.

    "It's a really dreamy, swoony, brilliant letters to one another full of quotations." (16:09)

  • "Book of Records" by Madeline Thee:
    A family saga employing a magical, time-traveling building to delve into memory, politics, and generational dynamics.

    "It's a mix of a historical novel and a speculative novel." (17:57)

• Dorothea Trufelman's Request:
  Dorothea is interested in memoir-like fiction that steers clear of celebrity narratives.

  • "Dry Season" by Melissa Phoebos:
    A lively memoir detailing Phoebos' year of abstaining from sex and dating, blending confessional prose with novelistic flair.

    "It's very much about her own experience and her own life." (19:06)

  • "Sloppy" by Raq King:
    An essay collection touching on sobriety and familial relationships, noted for its humor and candidness.

    "It's funny, it's lively, and it's full of sexy, weird little blind items..." (19:23)

• John Williams’ Personal Recommendation:
  Addressing his own desire for a family saga akin to Pachinko by Min Jin Lee, Williams recommends:

  • "Flashlight" by Susan Choi:
    A sprawling narrative that intertwines family dynamics with personal loss, capturing the essence of a multi-generational saga.

    "It's one of Choi's longer novels, so it gives you a little more to chew into in the summer." (20:54)

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6. Emerging Themes in Summer Reading: The Digital Age

Concluding the episode, the hosts and guests reflect on prevalent themes shaping contemporary literature, particularly the influence of digital life.

• "Second Life" by Amanda Hess:
  Addresses how digital platforms impact impending parenthood and personal interactions, offering a critical lens on the omnipresence of technology.

  "How digital life influences impending parenthood and how you behave or ask questions..." (21:53)

• "Mood Machine" by Liz Pelly:
  Explores the gamification of music taste through platforms like Spotify, urging readers to reclaim personal curation from algorithm-driven suggestions.

  "It's about Spotify and how it's kind of gamified music taste to the point where maybe it's diminishing returns now." (22:38)

John Jacob Brogan remarks on the digital age's relentlessness and how literature serves as a means to slow down and critically engage with technology's pervasive role.

"Books invite us to encourage us to slow down, take a breath, try to step outside of the flow of information..." (24:16)

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt thanks to the guests, emphasizing the invaluable human touch in literary recommendations over algorithm-driven suggestions. Listeners are encouraged to explore the diverse summer reading list, accessible through the show's provided resources.

"You guys are better than any sort of AI algorithm that I would ask for what books to read." (24:48)

John Jacob Brogan and John Williams bid farewell, reminding listeners to check the show notes for a comprehensive list of the discussed books.

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Notable Quotes

• John Jacob Brogan on Mark Twain Biography:

  "With Mark Twain, he takes about 1100 pages to tell the story of the author of Huck Finn and many other books." (04:59)

• Jacob Brogan Reading from "Is a River Alive":

  "12,000 years ago, a river is born in a hollow at the foot of a hill..." (07:31)

• Jacob Brogan on Alison Bechdel's "Spent":

  "It's a book about getting older, about rediscovering desire, pleasure, community..." (10:22)

• John Jacob Brogan on Digital Life in Literature:

  "Books invite us to encourage us to slow down, take a breath, try to step outside of the flow of information..." (24:16)

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Final Thoughts

Post Reports successfully navigates the expansive landscape of summer literature, offering tailored recommendations that cater to a wide array of reader preferences. Whether seeking the depth of a "doorstopper" biography, the poetic immersion of nature writing, the thrill of escapist fiction, or the nuanced storytelling of graphic novels, listeners are equipped with a curated list to enhance their summer reading experience.

Transcript

[Elahe Izadi]

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[John Williams]

Before we start today's show, I want to say a quick thank you for being a listener and to explain a little bit more about why my colleagues and I hope you'll also subscribe to the Washington Post. The Post newsroom has published more than 100 scoops so far this year. Exclusive stories reported by our newsroom, holding power to account and keeping you informed. That's what drives our work and it's the kind of work that you support as a subscriber. If you're not one already, this is a great time to take this step. Our Memorial Day sale is happening now. You can unlock your subscription for just $2 every four weeks for a whole year and after that it's just $12 every four weeks. You can cancel anytime. So hit pause right now and go to the subscription link in our show notes or to washingtonpost.com subscribe in a few minutes. You'll have more of what's happening in the world right at your fingertips. This offer is good for a limited time, so really do not wait. We're so excited to welcome you as a subscriber. Okay, here's today's show. John Jacob, I want to start by painting a picture for you. So, okay, imagine you're on vacation. You're on the beach. The sunscreen has been applied. The umbrella is up. There's kids in the water. You're lying down on a towel or a chair if you prefer, and you reach out your hand. What book are you reaching for?

[Jacob Brogan]

The book that I'm reaching for this summer is by a guy who writes for our section sometimes Samuel Ashworth. It's called the Death and Life of August Sweeney and it is the life story of a celebrated celebrity chef told through his autopsy.

[John Williams]

Whoa.

[John Jacob]

You know, this is very much on my mind because I'm going on vacation in a week and I'm deciding what to pack. I think this is such a non summary answer, but I might take Bleak.

[John Williams]

House by Charles Dickens, that's Jacob Broken and John Williams and they have a really cool job. They get to read books for Work and then write about them for the Post's book section. It's called Bookworld. And every year around this time, John and Jacob help craft Bookworld's definitive summer reading guide. It's an exhaustive list of recommendations for every kind of reader. It just came out this weekend. Maybe you're someone who likes to spend the summer under a tree reading a dense historical book. Or maybe your attention span is fried and you need something light and quick. Well, whatever you're looking for, we are here to help.

[Jacob Brogan]

My summer reading book, my beach read, my ideal beach read, is really large so that I can shade myself from.

[John Williams]

The sun because I burn easily utilitarian. These books must serve multiple purposes.

[Jacob Brogan]

It's gotta be a shade umbrella.

[John Williams]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Elahe izadi. It's Monday, May 26th. On this memorial Day, we're going to take a break from the news and help you find the perfect book to start your summer. Our experts will give their recommendations and we'll include the complete list of all the books you hear today in our show notes. So, John, Jacob, thanks for coming into the studio to talk to me today.

[John Jacob]

Thanks for having us.

[John Williams]

Yeah, yeah. I'm really looking forward to this. And what I'd like to do with both of you is run through different types of books and readers to get your expert advice on the best books for every situation.

[Thanet Naropil]

Are.

[John Williams]

Are you guys game for that?

[Jacob Brogan]

We're game.

[John Jacob]

Ready?

[John Williams]

I wanted to start by talking about the quote unquote doorstopper category. So this is like a very thick book. What would you recommend for people who want to spend the summer tucking into, you know, like a nice, chunky, long read?

[John Jacob]

Well, for history buffs, there are a couple of biographies that are. These are really massive. A lot of people read on E readers and things, no judgment. So they might choose that with these because they are quite large. The first is Ron Chernow's big new biography of Mark Twain. Chernow is probably the best known historian of his generation. He tends to write about giant financial titans or, you know, American political figures.

[John Williams]

And he wrote the book that the Hamilton Broadway musical was inspired by.

[John Jacob]

He did. It has to be the most unlikely musical adaptation of all time. Another doorstopper about Alexander Hamilton, a kind of at that time, B list founding.

[John Williams]

Yeah, it could be straight up to the A. So. So what did he do with Mark Twain then?

[John Jacob]

Well, with Mark Twain, he takes about 1100 pages to tell the story of the author of Huck Finn and Many other books and considered by many to be, if not the greatest American writer, kind of the most characteristic American writer and tells his life. And you know, the reviews have been a little mixed. I think you definitely have to have a fairly large pre existing interest in Mark Twain, I see, to pick it up. But I also think Chernow has his own fans who just like the way he does history. And so I think for them it definitely won't disappoint. Um, the other one is a giant political biography which is coming out on June 3rd. And that's the new long awaited biography of William F. Buckley Jr. By Sam Tanenhaus. Tanenhaus, who's a friend to Bookworld and writes for us sometimes, he's been working on this book for a really long time. His previous book won a big prize and he's been really delving into the life of Buckley, who of course was the person who did probably the most to shape the conservative movement during his lifetime as the founder of National Review magazine. And I think this is gonna be a biography that really reads like a novel. Kind of tells his whole life in a, in a very dramatic way.

[John Williams]

I love those. Jacob. Summer is also a great time to leave your house, get out there, experience nature. And so I'm just sort of picturing whether, you know, you're in a park, on a bench, wherever you are outside. Is there something that you would recommend to read while enjoying the great outdoors?

[Jacob Brogan]

You might want to pick up Robert McFarlane's book, is a River Alive.

[John Williams]

Even the title is very outdoorsy, incredible outdoorsy title.

[Jacob Brogan]

And MacFarlane is one of the just finest writers working today. I started reading it this morning. He's detailing this stream that is near his own house, the stream that he visits with his kids. But going through from the book's opening paragraph, the whole kind of generation of the river. I mean, I can just read you a paragraph from it here.

[John Williams]

I love it. Let's get into the great outdoors while we're inside.

[Jacob Brogan]

I think it'll pull you right there. 12,000 years ago, a river is born in a hollow at the foot of a hill on which flints lie white as eyes. Water rises for the first time from a crack in the chalk and flows away. Rises and flows, rises and flows for days, then years, then decades, then centuries. Watched by a midsummer day moon and a berry red winter sun. Watched in all weathers. Watched by deer who stand six feet tall at the withers. Watched by centuries of hawk and fox, Watched in sleet and hail. Watched by aurochs 11ft long from muzzle to tail.

[John Williams]

Okay, Jacob Robert MacFarlane has to call you so that you can do the audiobook version of this book. Cause I could just listen to you recite that book all day long.

[Jacob Brogan]

I could read this book aloud to myself all day.

[John Williams]

It's like poetry.

[Jacob Brogan]

It's poetry. He's a beautiful writer. And I think, you know, whether you're coming for the science of formation of this river, Whether you're coming for his concerns about our changing climate, the ways that we're destroying our waterways, through pollution, through overheating of the planet and so on, whether you just are coming for the beauty of his sentences. This is a book that is going to excite and engage all sorts of readers, including me.

[John Jacob]

I feel like every generation has its writer about nature who kind of transcends the genre and becomes better known for it. And I think he's that, for his.

[Jacob Brogan]

Generation, really an incredible writer.

[John Williams]

Is a river alive. A lot of people also reach for fiction over the summer. The sort of escapist vibe, you know, or just something really engrossing to read when you're on a plane or by a pool. I'm wondering what newly released novels, works of fiction, are really catching your eye right now.

[John Jacob]

Well, I always go to thrillers for summer because I feel like people really want to feel like they're on an adventure. There is a new book out on June 10th by a writer named S.A. cosby. It's called King of Ashes. And Cosby has become. He's had this kind of meteoric rise in the last five or six years. And he writes these very Southern, very propulsive, very. I should say they're pretty violent and bloody. So it's for that crowd. They're not psychological thrillers. They're action thrillers. Like, stuff happens. People chase each other and hurt each other. And he's a great plotter. He's good at plot and story. And he's just. His audience, I think, has grown exponentially in the course of just the last two or three novels, to the point where I think people are really, really looking forward to this new one.

[John Williams]

Yeah, that sounds so interesting. I want to now actually talk about a different category of book, which I think can often be overlooked when we're talking about books. And that is the graphic novel. Are there any that you guys are really excited about?

[Jacob Brogan]

The one that I'm most eager to recommend right now that I think a lot of people will be really looking forward to is Alison Bechdel's new Spent. Bechdel is most famous for her memoirs, especially Fun Home, which is arguably one of the most important graphic memoirs of the last 30 years. Maybe I'll just say, we can say one of the most important graphic memoirs ever written. I mean, it truly was an apocally important book when Bechdel wrote it. Bechdel then wrote two other memoirs that are arguably less successful. Are youe My Mother and the Secret to Superhuman Strength.

[John Williams]

But what is this one? It's called Spent.

[Jacob Brogan]

But this one is called Spent. And it is not a memoir. Instead it's a novel.

[John Williams]

And you're holding it right here.

[Jacob Brogan]

I'm holding it right here.

[John Williams]

Oh, wow. This cover is really beautiful.

[Jacob Brogan]

It shows in the American gothic pose. Alison Bechdel herself and a representation of her wife, Holly Rae Taylor, who colored the book for Bechdel. And in this book, a fictionalized version of Alison Bechdel is hanging out with characters from her long running comic strip which was called Dykes to Watch out for, which ended in, I think 2008. But here she returns to those characters as older people. It's sort of like a AARP magazine ready version of Dykes to Watch Out For. And it's ultimately a book about getting older, about rediscovering desire, pleasure, community in a world that is in one way or another on fire, but in which there might be still some kind of possibility for hope in caring for the people around us. It's a real treat. It reads really breezily. Some of her memoirs are a little intellectually dense and this one just kind of clips right along, even when it is making occasional references to Karl Marx's capital.

[John Williams]

After the break, I put John and Jacob to the test. Can they give on the spot personalized book recommendations? We'll be right back.

[Fennet Neerpil]

I'm Thanet Naropil and I'm a health reporter for the Washington Post. My job is to cover public health and that means I'm writing about infectious disease threats like Covid mpox and bird flu. And I'm also holding the federal government and state government officials accountable for how they respond to disease, disease threats. So when we write about public health issues, we want to serve our readers by going deep into the science and by making sure that what they're reading is authoritative information that's been vetted by experts and written by people who've covered these issues for years. We want to empower people to live their best lives and to protect themselves and their loved ones. And that's what subscriber supported work does, is that it gives me the time and resources to really spend on a story that when you subscribe to the Washington Post, you support this kind of journalism and the people behind it. I'm Fennet Neerpil and I'm one of the people behind the Post.

[John Jacob]

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[Thanet Naropil]

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[John Williams]

John and Jacob, while we both have you here, this special treat to have you in the studio, we thought to make use of your expertise by getting some on the fly tailored book recommendations from you both. So we asked some listeners and people on our team to send in their specific requests and I'm hoping you can help them out. So let's hear the first request.

[Thanet Naropil]

My name is Maggie Penman. I am the executive producer of Post Reports and what I'm always looking for in a summer read is a really good book that I will be completely absorbed by where nothing too disturbing happens. And I think this is surprisingly difficult to find because if you look at a lot of the books that are among the best books according to critics and prizes, a lot of them are upsetting. So yeah, I would love a book that will really draw me in but also not disturb me.

[John Jacob]

I think that not being disturbed is actually an underrated desire and that people have every right to not be disturbed when reading. And there are always in the summer. You know, on the one hand there are things that are romance Y and super light that aren't gonna disturb you. But it sounds like Maggie is looking for something that maybe has a bit more heft to it.

[John Williams]

Yeah, like some quality.

[John Jacob]

Yeah, some quality, but that isn't massively depressing.

[John Williams]

Uh huh.

[Jacob Brogan]

I've got one for you Maggie, which is not a book coming out this summer, came out earlier this year and that's Ada Calhoun's novel Crush. It's a very thinly disguised autobiographical fiction about Calhoun, who in real life was married to the novelty rapper Champagne Jerry. And they had what seems to be a pretty long lasting, charming relationship for many years. But in this novel, in this fictionalized version of her life, she falls in love with an old friend through this incredible intellectual courtship. And they are writing these, these kind of dreamy, swoony, brilliant letters to one another full of quotations. And, you know, unless you consider people finding new forms of happiness stressful, I don't think it's a really stressful novel. I had a lot of fun reading it and I genuinely think it would be a great summer read no matter when it had come out in the year. So I'd pick that one up.

[John Jacob]

That's a good one. Calhoun's a great writer and that is a book about opening up a marriage, which honestly is incredibly trendy in literature these days, both in memoirs and in novels. And we've written a few pieces about that. So that's a good, you know, if you want in on that trend, that's probably a good starting point. And I have another one. There's a new novel by an author named Madeline Thee, who's very popular. It's called the Book of Records. It's about a family that has sort of a magical way to travel throughout time in a. In a shape shifting building that's made of the past, present and future. But it's definitely on the sort of literary side and not the science fiction fantasy side. You know, getting at kind of serious issues about memory and politics and generational relationships, but through this kind of fanciful conceit. And it's, it's kind of like a mix of a historical novel and a speculative novel. And she's a really good writer.

[John Williams]

Well, there you go, Maggie. Two great options. Okay, our next request comes from a listener. Let's take a listen.

[Thanet Naropil]

Hi, my name is Dorothea Trufelman. I'm from Brooklyn and I'm looking for a book recommendation for a memoir or a memoir kind of disguised as fiction and steering away from celebrity memoirs by this ask I mean something more along the lines of Maggie o' Farrell's I Am, I Am, I Am, which is about her many encounters with death or something maybe where the author disguises themself in their fiction, like Paul Auster or Philip Roth or any kind of read like that. I'd love your help with.

[John Jacob]

I want to say to Dorothea that she's better at this than us because that Maggie o' Farrell book I Am, I Am, I Am. Let me just reiterate that recommendation because it's such a fasc and so easy to read, but also so interesting in terms of memoirs this season, there's actually a book by a writer named Melissa Phoebos that's coming out on June 3rd. She has written several books before. This one is called the Dry Season and it's a memoir. She's a very lively writer, very sort of confessional writer, very modern. And this book is about what she learned about herself and about love through a year of abstaining from sex and from dating, essentially. I think that that's a really good combination of someone who is creative and sort of has the. Sometimes has the feel of a novelist. And yet this is very much about her own experience and her own life.

[John Williams]

Jacob?

[Jacob Brogan]

Yeah, so I'm gonna recommend one that's not out quite yet. You're gonna have to wait till a little later in the summer, but you can pre order. Publishers love that. It's Rax King's essay collection, Sloppy. Rax King is one of the great kind of Internet provocateurs, was very charming on what used to be called Twitter and wrote another fun memoiristic essay collection called Tacky a few years ago. Sloppy is about sobriety. It's also about her relationship to her dad who loomed really large in her life. But most of all, it's funny, it's lively, and it's full of sexy, weird little blind items about strip clubs in D.C. and other things that you're gonna wanna track down and figure out what she's talking about because it is a lot of fun.

[John Williams]

Well, John and Jacob, thank you so much for all those recommendations. And now I'm going to make use of host prerogative here and ask for my specific recommendation. So, okay, here's my scenario. It's maybe not that specific. Maybe it is. Let's say I've got maybe like a week long vacation. I'm not the fastest reader. I like to spend my time with my books. And I want a fiction book that is a family saga. So I'm thinking of something like Pachinko by Min Jin Lee, which that book I devoured. It's a historical fiction novel that follows a Korean family through generations in Japan. I want something that sort of scratches that itch. Doesn't have to be new, just maybe one I haven't heard of yet.

[John Jacob]

That's a great itch. And Pachinko is a great choice for that too. Those are rare books that are that sweeping and, and readable. There are a couple that come to mind, one of which is Susan Choi's new novel, Flashlight. She's a very widely acclaimed author whose last book won the National Book Award. And this one is about a girl who, well, she's a girl when the story starts, but she's looking back at it from later in life. And when she was 9 or 10 years old, she was on a beach with her father and she kind of blanked out. And when she woke up, her father was gone. And so everyone assumes he drowns. But she spends kind of her life trying to figure out the story of what happened. And it's one of Choi's longer novels, so it gives you a little more to chew into in the summer if you're looking for that week long read. And she's just a wonderful stylist and really understands a lot about family dynamics and inner psychology. I think you get a kick out of that one.

[John Williams]

I'm going to write that one down. So, Sean, when you look at the slate of summer books coming out this year, are there any big themes you're seeing?

[John Jacob]

There's the continuation of the theme of digital life. I just think that that's what we're all dealing with every day in so many different ways. There's a book, one book in particular that just came out, Second Life, by Amanda Hess. She's an acclaimed reporter for the New York Times as a culture critic and a very lively writer. And this book is about what she discovered when she was pregnant in terms of how digital life influences impending parenthood and how you behave or ask questions when you become a new parent and, you know, in someone else's hands, that might be a little bit kind of practical and parenting y but Hess is just a really wide lens cultural writer. And so it gets at just all kinds of different things, even if you're not a parent, in terms of how we live now and the way that we deal with information.

[Jacob Brogan]

She has a real wit and a real understanding of the digital landscape and but I think that it does speak, as John's suggesting also to this sort of just general interest in what it means to live in an age governed by Facebook, by algorithms, by AI and just trying to be creative, trying to be a good person, be a good parent in this moment.

[John Jacob]

And speaking about, you know, life under the algorithm, there was a book that came out a couple months ago called Mood Machine by Liz Pelly that people have really loved and it's about Spotify, basically, and how it's kind of gamified music taste to the point where maybe it's diminishing returns now. And it's. I guess it's a little bit of just an anti streaming book. It just tells you to kind of take over again, the curation of your own taste and not rely so much on the algorithms. But she's a very smart cultural writer too.

[John Williams]

Well, that's so interesting that you're noticing this trend of, like, digital life. And I wonder what that tells you both about the state of the publishing industry right now. Because I feel like, okay, we're talking about digital life. Those trends can feel so fleeting. But if they're being sort of cemented within a book, I mean, a book to me just feels more permanent than, you know, like we're talking just like people throwing things up on social media. Like, what does it tell you that that's a trend line that you're seeing in the publishing industry?

[John Jacob]

Well, I think it's so much time has now passed. It shows how sort of deep into that digital age we are because these books are stepping back and kind of considering things that maybe used to feel just like an onrush of new stuff, and now they're really taking the time to consider what they mean, how we interact with them, how we might resist and change our behavior now that we've lived with them for so long and if there are things we don't like about it.

[Jacob Brogan]

I also think, you know, one of the defining features of digital life is its relentlessness. Stuff just piles up in the digital world and books invite us to encourage us to slow down, take a breath, try to step outside of the flow of information and understand what we've been looking at. I think that's what Amanda Hess was doing in her book. So if you want to understand the moment and not just be caught in it, I love that that's what these books are for. And that's what books are for generally.

[John Williams]

Yeah. Well, John and Jacob, you guys are better than any sort of AI algorithm that I would ask for what books to read. Like, you gave such great recommendations for every single situation.

[John Jacob]

That actually means a lot.

[Jacob Brogan]

We're desperate to be better than AI.

[John Williams]

Thank you both so much.

[John Jacob]

Thanks for having us.

[John Williams]

Jacob Brogan is an editor with the Book Book World section at the Post. John Williams edits the Book World section. As a reminder, you can find the list of all the books we talked about in today's episode in our show notes. That's it for post reports. Thanks for listening. Today's show was produced by Emma Talkoff. With help from Lucas Trevor and mixed by Shawn Carter and edited by Ariel Plotnick. I'm Elahe Izadi. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

[Elahe Izadi]

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