What Trump wants: More tariffs, less Epstein

Summary

Post Reports Episode Summary: "What Trump Wants: More Tariffs, Less Epstein"

Release Date: August 1, 2025
Hosts: Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi
Guests: Colby Kowitz (Host), David Lynch (Global Economics Correspondent), Kat Zakreski (White House Reporter)
Podcast: Post Reports by The Washington Post

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Overview

In the August 1, 2025 episode of Post Reports, hosts Colby Kowitz, along with guests David Lynch and Kat Zakreski, delve into the intertwined narratives of former President Donald Trump's ongoing entanglement with the Jeffrey Epstein case and his aggressive tariff policies. The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of how Trump's attempts to divert public attention from Epstein through economic maneuvers have shaped both domestic politics and international relations.

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Trump and the Jeffrey Epstein Saga

The episode opens with a light-hearted banter among the hosts before transitioning to serious political discourse. Colby Kowitz sets the stage by highlighting President Trump's struggles to move the public discourse away from Jeffrey Epstein:

• Colby Kowitz [01:09]: "With Congress in recess and the President out of town... one name was still top of mind for Donald Trump. Jeffrey Epstein."

Kat Zakreski provides background on the resurgence of the Epstein case:

• Kat Zakreski [01:58]: "This saga started in June when Elon Musk tweeted about Trump’s name being in the Epstein files, reigniting mainstream attention."

As the conversation progresses, Kat discusses Trump's inconsistent narratives regarding his relationship with Epstein:

• Kat Zakreski [04:14]: "Trump claimed Epstein was poaching young girls from his Mar-a-Lago spa, leading to their fallout. However, investigative reports suggest a real estate deal in Palm Beach was the actual cause."

Colby references The Washington Post’s poll on public interest:

• Colby Kowitz [05:43]: "The Post found most Americans are paying some attention to the Epstein news, with one in four paying a lot of attention."

David Lynch offers his insights on the persistent nature of the Epstein story:

• David Lynch [06:07]: "It’s a story that won’t go away. The White House's efforts to dismiss it have been clumsy, keeping it in the public eye."

The discussion also touches upon potential pardons for Ghislaine Maxwell and the implications thereof:

• Kat Zakreski [04:18]: "Trump was repeatedly asked about pardoning Maxwell but did not give a definitive response, keeping the topic alive in the media."

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Trump’s Aggressive Tariff Policies and Trade Dealings

Transitioning to economic policies, the conversation shifts focus to Trump's imposition of new tariffs and trade agreements, particularly with the European Union (EU).

David Lynch provides a detailed breakdown of the recent trade deal:

• David Lynch [08:24]: "The US and EU agreed to impose a 15% tariff on all EU imports to the US, making European products more expensive for American consumers. In return, the EU agreed to spend $750 billion on American energy products and invest an additional $600 billion in US projects."

Colby questions the fairness of the deal:

• Colby Kowitz [09:51]: "This deal seems stacked in favor of the United States. What does the EU gain from this?"

Lynch explains the EU's perspective:

• David Lynch [09:59]: "From the EU's standpoint, avoiding a full-blown trade war was crucial. While the 15% tariff is significant compared to previous rates, it prevented potential escalations that could harm both economies."

Kat Zakreski provides context on the negotiations and the demeanor of European leaders:

• Kat Zakreski [11:29]: "European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen initially presented the deal as historic, appealing to Trump's ego. However, in subsequent press conferences, she appeared deflated, acknowledging the limitations of the agreement."

David critiques Trump's negotiation style:

• David Lynch [13:04]: "Trump’s approach to trade is confrontational. Unlike previous administrations that engaged in prolonged negotiations, he leverages the US market's power to extract favorable terms, often at the expense of international alliances."

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Impact on US Consumers and Inflation

The hosts explore the domestic repercussions of the new tariffs, particularly concerning consumer prices and inflation.

David Lynch discusses the potential inflationary effects:

• David Lynch [20:06]: "The Federal Reserve aims for a 2% annual increase in prices. Currently, the core PCE is at 2.8%, and tariffs may push it above 3%, complicating the Fed's efforts to manage inflation."

Colby inquires about specific products affected by the tariffs:

• Colby Kowitz [21:27]: "What types of products are Americans likely to see price hikes on due to these tariffs?"

Lynch elaborates on the sectors impacted:

• David Lynch [21:27]: "Companies like Procter & Gamble are raising prices on about a quarter of their products by a few percent. Nike and Hasbro are also planning price increases, which will eventually pass on costs to consumers."

Kat Zakreski adds perspective on the broader economic implications:

• Kat Zakreski [17:33]: "While Trump presents these deals as beneficial for America, consumers are the ones bearing the brunt through higher prices, questioning who truly benefits from these policies."

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Global Perception and US Leadership in Trade

The episode further examines how Trump's trade policies are reshaping global perceptions of the United States.

Kat Zakreski shares observations from international trips:

• Kat Zakreski [23:25]: "In Edinburgh, protests against Trump were creative, highlighting global discontent. In Canada, the sentiment was clear—Americans are facing growing resentment abroad due to these policies."

David Lynch contemplates the sustainability of US leadership in global trade:

• David Lynch [25:02]: "The US is singular in adopting this aggressive economic model. This approach risks eroding trust and competitiveness over time, potentially diminishing the US's role as a global trade leader."

Colby raises concerns about the long-term strategic consequences:

• Colby Kowitz [24:40]: "With countries like the EU and Canada feeling the strain, how long can the US maintain its leadership position without fostering lasting alliances?"

Lynch responds with caution:

• David Lynch [25:02]: "It's uncertain. While retaliation would hurt their own economies, ongoing diplomatic initiatives and new trade alliances, like between the EU and India, could shift the global trade landscape away from US dominance if current policies persist."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the interconnectedness of Trump's personal controversies and his administration's economic strategies. The persistent Epstein narrative continues to overshadow his policy initiatives, suggesting a challenging path ahead for both his political image and the United States' standing in global trade.

Key Takeaways:

• Jeffrey Epstein's Legacy: Persistent media focus despite Trump's efforts to divert attention underscores the lasting impact of Epstein's case on Trump's reputation.
• Trade Policies: Trump's aggressive tariffs aim to rebalance trade but may inadvertently harm American consumers and strain international alliances.
• Economic Implications: The potential rise in inflation and consumer prices poses significant challenges for the US economy and the Federal Reserve's policies.
• Global Leadership: The US's unilateral trade approach risks diminishing its role as a global trade leader, with emerging alliances potentially bypassing traditional US-EU trade dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Kat Zakreski [04:14]: "President Trump claimed Jeffrey Epstein was poaching young girls from his spa, but reports suggest real estate deals were the actual reason for their fallout."
• David Lynch [13:04]: "Trump’s approach to trade is confrontational, leveraging the US market's power to extract favorable terms at the expense of international alliances."
• David Lynch [20:06]: "Core PCE is at 2.8%, and tariffs may push it above 3%, complicating the Fed's efforts to manage inflation."
• Kat Zakreski [17:33]: "Consumers are bearing the brunt through higher prices, questioning who truly benefits from these policies."

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Produced By: Arjun Singh
Mixed By: Shawn Carter
Edited By: Rena Flores
Additional Team Members: Maggie Penman, Ted Muldoon, Alana Gordon, Ariel Plotnick, Rennie Sernovsky, Sabi Robinson, Emma Talkoff, Shawn Carter, Peter Brosnan, Laura Benchoff, Tadeo Ruiz, Sandoval, Thomas Liu, Renita Jablonski, Alahia Azadeh, Martine Powers
Host: Colby Kowitz

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

[Colby Kowitz]

So did you hear about the big news out of Canada?

[David Lynch]

Um, I don't know.

[Kat Zakreski]

Is it about tariffs or.

[Colby Kowitz]

Yes, there is some tariff news out of Canada, but what I'm really talking about is that former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

[David Lynch]

Yes.

[Colby Kowitz]

Had dinner.

[Kat Zakreski]

Yes.

[Colby Kowitz]

What looked like maybe a romantic dinner with pop star Katy Perry. What do you think?

[David Lynch]

I did hear that I wasn't invited. I don't have strong feelings about Justin Trudeau's dating life or Katy Perry's.

[Colby Kowitz]

I mean, that's totally fair.

[Kat Zakreski]

I don't know. I'm team Orlando Bloom. Always have been dating Mexic since middle school.

[Colby Kowitz]

Wow, that's a deep cut. From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports weekly political roundtable.

[David Lynch]

Colby.

[Colby Kowitz]

I'm colbykowitz. It's Friday, August 1st. I'm joined this week by the Post's global economics correspondent, David Lynch. Hey, David.

[David Lynch]

Morning.

[Colby Kowitz]

And we're also here with White House reporter Kat Sikreski. Hey, Kat.

[David Lynch]

Hey.

[Kat Zakreski]

Thanks for having me on the show.

[Colby Kowitz]

So with Congress in recess and the President out of town, Washington was a little emptier this week, but still predictably chaotic. In a week that he announced a blockbuster trade deal, a bunch of new tariffs, and traveled abroad, one name was still top of mind for Donald Trump. Jeffrey Epstein. The President has tried and failed to get the public to think about anything else than his former friend, the deceased sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. So we're going to get into that. And then, of course, Trump's ever changing tariffs policies. As we've discussed on the show, we're going on four weeks of Trump trying desperately to move on from the Epstein story. It clearly isn't working, Kat. And this week, it just continued to dog him. So can you briefly remind us how we got here and what was new this week?

[Kat Zakreski]

Sure. So, I mean, really, this is a saga that started in some ways in June when Elon Musk was leaving the White House and tweeted, I'm going to drop a really big bomb. The reason Trump hasn't released the Epstein files is that his name is in them. And so that kind of brought more mainstream attention to the Jeffrey Epstein case again. And then back about four weeks ago, the administration announced that they planned not to release any more files related to the case. And this was a huge blow to members of Trump's MAGA base who really believed that the President and many of his allies at the DOJ would use their power to release these files that are at the center of a lot of the conspiracy theories that have defined modern GOP politics.

[Colby Kowitz]

And so obviously, Trump has kept saying, let's move on, let's move on. And, and yet there's been more this week. What happened this week?

[Kat Zakreski]

President Trump repeatedly was asked about the Epstein case when he was on the road in Scotland, whether he was meeting with the president of the European Commission or boarding Air Force One. Reporters were keeping questions about this in the news.

[David Lynch]

Mr. President, you have said that you have not been briefed the Epstein files.

[Colby Kowitz]

But.

[David Lynch]

Or your name has not appeared in the Eppstein files. But doesn't the AG have to tell you if your name. Well, I haven't been overly interested in it. You know, it's something, it's a hoax that's been built up way beyond proportion. I can say this.

[Kat Zakreski]

And so he disclosed a bit more about his account of why his longtime friendship with Jeffrey Epstein dissolved. We also saw there was a lot more attention this week on convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, who was an associate of Jeffrey Epstein. And there were some efforts to have her testify in front of Congress. Her lawyers said that she would be willing to do that in exchange for immunity. But ultimately, it didn't seem like the congressional committees would agree to those conditions.

[Colby Kowitz]

And there's also a question of whether or not Trump will pardon her.

[Kat Zakreski]

Yes, and that was something he was repeatedly asked about, and he didn't give a definitive no to those questions. And so they will likely continue to remain in the news.

[Colby Kowitz]

And, Kat, what was the reason that Trump gave for why he terminated his friendship with Epstein?

[Kat Zakreski]

So the reason that we heard from him this week was he claimed that Jeffrey Epstein, who was a member of his Mar A Lago club, was poaching employees from the spa there. And so this is.

[Colby Kowitz]

And when you say employees, these were.

[Kat Zakreski]

Young girls, young girls who were working in the spa there. And so he claimed that this happened once and he told him to cut it out, and then he said it happened again and that he then proceeded to kick Jeffrey Epstein out of the club. And this is a different account than what was reported during Trump's first term around why his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein broke down at that time. Our investigative team here at the Washington some stories about how a real estate deal in Palm beach several years after these poaching incidents that the president was talking about was really the final nail in the coffin of that relationship. And President Trump was asked about these differing accounts and why the story has changed. And he responded, calling the reporter who asked fake news.

[Colby Kowitz]

The Post did this fascinating poll this week. It found that most Americans are paying attention, or at least some attention to the Epstein file news, and at least one in four paying like a lot of attention to it. David, this is not your beat. You have been focused on.

[David Lynch]

And I'm not one of the four, I should say.

[Colby Kowitz]

Well, that's great. That's what I was gonna ask you. You know, you're focused head down on tariffs and trade. But have you been following this news? Does it surprise you how it's captivated America a little bit?

[David Lynch]

I don't know that we've learned anything particularly new. It just seems like a story that, that won't go away. It's a sore that people continue to pick at. And the White House has seemed remarkably clumsy in trying to do away with a story that is on the across. Political affiliations have been concerned about for years because putting aside the various conspiracy theories and what this might mean for the president, politically, this guy was a pretty bad actor. And his henchwoman, Ms. Maxwell, who's been convicted of helping him procure young women to abuse and take advantage of sexually for years in a way that destroyed many lives. But we knew that. So the amount of time we're spending on it now seems unusual or unexpected.

[Colby Kowitz]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, Kat, you mentioned that Trump was abroad, he was overseas. You actually, you were with him. And not even ocean could distance him from the Epstein saga. But what was he doing overseas? What was he trying to accomplish on this trip?

[Kat Zakreski]

Well, the trip originally was supposed to be a golf trip for the President and he was going to be golfing at some of his clubs there in Scotland, and he was going to be having a ribbon cutting for a new golf course that was opening at one of the properties there. But as we often see with this president, the responsibilities of his public office and his business life began to blur. And that was really on display when, when we had this unusual situation where the President of the United States is in Scotland and then he ends up playing host to the Prime Minister of the uk, Keir Starmer, at one of his properties. And also you had the president of the European Commission coming there.

[Colby Kowitz]

So it's like they're on his turf, even though he's on their turf. I mean, what's so interesting is that the meeting comes on the heels of an announcement of a trade deal with the European Union. Right. Imposing all these new tariffs on the eu. David, what exactly did the EU and the US Agree to this week?

[David Lynch]

What they agreed to was something not as bad as could have occurred from the European perspective. The trade framework that The President has worked out with the EU will see tariffs imposed, a 15% tariff on all goods that we import from Europe into the United States. So that's going to make products more expensive for you and me and for American businesses here in the U.S. the EU has also agreed. And the details are, as is often the case with these quote unquote agreements, very fuzzy and not yet legally binding. But They've agreed the EU has two spend 750 billion on American energy products and to invest an additional 600 billion in projects in the United States. Now, whether that money will ever materialize is anybody's guess because the President has a documented track record of exaggerating the scale of deals that he's reached in the past.

[Colby Kowitz]

And there's no EU tariffs on US Goods, as I understand.

[David Lynch]

Well, in terms of this deal, no, as a matter of fact, the EU has agreed to reduce it's already low tariffs on our industrial products to give us other market access considerations that could produce some incremental additional sales for American business.

[Colby Kowitz]

I mean, this deal seems really stacked in the favor of the United States. What does the EU gain from this? They're giving us money. I don't understand.

[David Lynch]

Well, yeah, they might give us some money at some point. If I were a betting man, and I'm not, shouldn't be in the betting business, but I think it is a fact to report that people are skeptical of those 750 billion, $600 billion numbers. Whether those, because we have to keep in mind, the EU can say, yes, we're going to encourage our private sector to do this. But Europe is not whatever people might think of Europe, Europe is not a state directed economy. So this is very much an aspirational goal. But from the European perspective, they looked into the abyss of a trade war with the United States, of an open exchange of retaliatory tariffs that could escalate out of sight and do damage to both sides. And they said, no, we don't have the stomach for that. And they got a 15% tariff, but they had been threatened with a 30% tariff. So everything is relative. This is not as bad as it could have been from their perspective, but it's certainly worse than before President Trump took office. Tariffs were on the order average of about two and a half percent.

[Colby Kowitz]

I mean, Kat, you were, like I said, you were with him in Europe and it's, you know, this is all happening, you know, you're there with him while these major US Allies are acknowledging really that Trump has kind of forced their hand and they're forced into this bad deal. Like, what was the mood or the energy around Trump and those leaders that he was meeting with?

[Kat Zakreski]

Well, it was really striking to watch, particularly with the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, the difference in tone when she was with Trump versus giving a press conference on her own terms. In the room heading into the meeting, she talked about, we have the opportunity to create the biggest deal in history, and you're a master negotiator. And was really appealing to Trump's ego and his sense of himself as a dealmaker.

[Ursula von der Leyen]

We have a trade deal between the two largest economies in the world, and it's a big deal. It's a huge deal. It will bring stability, it will bring predictability. That's very important for our businesses on both sides of the Atlantic.

[Kat Zakreski]

Then she goes and gives her own press conference.

[Ursula von der Leyen]

Yes, we should not forget where we came from.

[Kat Zakreski]

And is much more deflated and talks about how this is the best she could get.

[Ursula von der Leyen]

15% is not to be underestimated, but it is the best we could get.

[Kat Zakreski]

I think it really shows kind of the competing tensions for these world leaders when they're dealing with Trump, where they're trying to appease him, they're trying to keep things calm and, you know, be able to reach some semblance of a deal. But then they have to go back and present that to their own countries and their own people and explain, you know, why they landed where they did. And so that was a really stark example of that over the weekend.

[Colby Kowitz]

I mean, it's kind of governing by bullying a little bit, right?

[David Lynch]

Well, it is. He's taken to give him his due. He has adopted a very different approach to trade, as goes without saying, I suppose, than his predecessors. The way trade deals used to work was sort of a very genteel assemblage of 100 or so. Diplomats would get together, they'd negotiate, we'd all do it together. This would go on for months and years of exchange of legal documents make your eyes glaze over. And he has turned it into. He's going to deal with one country at a time. He is going to bring the full force of the giant US market to bear on that other country. So in most of these negotiations, he very much has the leverage and he's not afraid to use it. And many of these countries are our allies in Europe, South Korea. And implicit, sometimes explicit, is the worry that if we don't agree to a deal with this American president, he may pull out his security guarantees. So he is very much putting the hammer down on these countries. Now, his view is that this is going to rebalance global trade in the favor of the United States. The open question is what sort of bruises does this leave behind that, okay, you can twist the arm of the Europeans or the South Koreans or the Japanese and you can squeeze out some commercial advantages. But what resentments have you left behind and what message have you left with these countries about the extent to which they can or cannot depend on the United States as an ally?

[Colby Kowitz]

And David, to your point, it's not just the eu, right. He's threatened China and Canada with high tariffs, South Korea, Japan, and he initially gave countries a deadline of today of August 1st, first to either make deals with him or to face these high tariffs. But things have changed a little bit on that front too. Right. So can you give us a snapshot of where US Trade policy stands and what countries have made a deal with Trump?

[David Lynch]

Yeah, we've had a handful of deals that have been negotiated, announced to date. And again, I don't want to belabor this, but these are not full blown legally binding trade deals of the sort that we might remember from NAFTA in the mid-90s or the brought together the U.S. canada, Mexico, that sort of trade deals that are like the size of a phone book. These are two or three pages of kind of agreed things that we're going to continue to talk about and work towards. But he's done that with Vietnam, Japan, the European Union, the United Kingdom, the Philippines, a handful of others. After his trade advisor Peter Navarro once promised 90 deals in 90 days, we didn't quite hit that target. We hit about seven or eight in 120 days. But last night the President put out a couple of executive orders. In a nutshell, they've now sketched out a sort of three tiered system of tariffs. If the countries that we're running a surplus with which the President likes, that means we sell to them more than they sell to us, they get a 10% tariff. Countries that we have a modest trade deficit with which the President doesn't like. He doesn't like these deficits. I think they hollow out American manufacturing. We hit goods from those countries with 15% and then everybody else gets higher sort of custom designed tariffs for their particular relationship with the United States. Some of these go up to 40%.

[Colby Kowitz]

Are those tariffs going into effect today.

[David Lynch]

With the exception of Canada, which the President's irked at over a couple of issues? No, they are set to now take effect a week from now on August.

[Colby Kowitz]

7Th and is there a chance that he then pushes that deadline again. I mean, it seems like we.

[David Lynch]

I'm out of the business of predicting, fair enough, what the President's gonna do. But what I will say is, if you're one of those countries that has not yet made a deal, you do now have a window of seven days to come back and try and avert these tariffs from taking effect. I mean, he's open for business on the deal making and always will be, I suspect.

[Colby Kowitz]

I mean, on that point of the deal making part of this, Kat, is it working? Because it kind of seems like it is. Like he threatens a country with these massive tariffs, like David was saying, and then they kind of meet him somewhere in the middle. At the end of the day, it's always, it seems like it's a bad deal for the other country and a good deal for America.

[Kat Zakreski]

I think Trump is presenting these as good deals for America. And for Trump, they're in line with his goals. The question is, is it really a good deal for Americans? Because he puts these messages out saying, oh, you know, X country is going to pay us a 15% tariff, but the countries aren't paying that. Consumers are paying that, most likely because the tariffs are paid by American companies when the goods arrive in our ports. And most likely they're going to pass those taxes on to consumers. And so when he talks about this in the context of winning, it really raises the question, who's winning? Trump's agenda is winning, but are the American people?

[Colby Kowitz]

Well, guys, let's pause there. And after the break, we're going to talk more about tariffs and how US Consumers might be seeing price hikes because of them. We'll be right back.

[Robin Givhan]

I'm Robin Kivan and I'm the senior critic at large for the Washington Post. I write about politics and race and the arts. You know, there's so much information and misinformation coming at people. And for me, a critic's job is to really cut through that and attempt to direct people towards what is of value. Subscribers are definitely the most engaged, and they're the ones that I feel like I'm most often having a conversation with people who are really engaged in our culture and engaged in civic life in a way that can be really transformative. When you subscribe to the Washington Post, you support this kind of journalism. Learn more at subscribe.washingtonpost.com I'm Robin Givhan, and I'm one of the people behind the Post.

[Colby Kowitz]

So during the 2024 campaign, Trump was hammering President Biden for inflation that occurred during his administration, you know, people couldn't afford things. Are prices going to go up because of these tariffs? I mean, how does this impact inflation?

[David Lynch]

The administration says no. And Treasury Secretary Scott Besant has already said what he calls the quote, unquote, inflation propagandists have been proven wrong, which I think is a premature judgment. We've already seen some slight uptick in the inflation metric that the Federal Reserve looks at, which is something called core pce. I won't bore you with the details, but we got numbers on that yesterday. It has ticked up from the month before and the month before had ticked up from the month before that. We're at about 2.8% in the core PCE. Economists are starting to look at that and saying it's headed higher. It might be headed north of 3. Now to put that in context, the Fed wants it at 2, that they look at a 2% annual increase in prices as effectively price stability. We can all sort of live with that. You start ticking north of that and it puts the Fed on hold. It keeps the Fed from lowering interest rates, which the President has been badgering them to do. So it creates a dilemma for the Fed. But there is an argument about the extent to which these tariffs are eventually going to pass through into consumer prices. And economists will give you different estimates of that.

[Colby Kowitz]

What types of products and goods are Americans going to start seeing potentially prices go up on?

[David Lynch]

Well, with all of the tariffs that have been imposed starting earlier this year, we've started to see them slowly work their way into the system because companies in the US had built up stockpiles of goods, had rushed to get goods into the country before the tariffs hit and they've been selling off those non tariffed items. So there's been a delay between when the tariffs started and when the price increases will start. But just this week, Procter and Gamble, a huge maker of consumer products that has brands that everybody knows, Tide Detergent, Pampers, Diapers, on and on, said they're going to start raising prices on about a quarter of their products by a couple of percent on average to start with. Nike, another well known brand, is looking at what they call, I think surgical price increases later this year. Hasbro, the toy maker, has gone public as well. So these are, I think Columbia Sportswear, which people would know. So these are things that you're going to see and feel. And now the precise amount per product, it won't be uniform. If you hear that there's a 15% tariff, that doesn't mean Your goods are going to be 15% more expensive because that, that might be on an ingredient that goes into a good. So it's only a percentage of the total cost. Maybe the US Company gets the foreign manufacturer to eat some of it. Maybe the US Company shrinks their profit margins, at least temporarily. So at the end of the day, they only pass on to the consumer. 3, 4%. It'll vary per product and per market.

[Colby Kowitz]

Yeah. In addition to the possibility that prices could go up, there's also the what David was saying, and you know, he's antagonizing some of the United States most loyal allies. Right. I mean, it's leading to just even more angst against Americans abroad. There's already been angst about America abroad. Did you notice that feeling at all while you were with him from the.

[Kat Zakreski]

Public in the uk Certainly when I was in Edinburgh, there were protests against President Trump and they kind of had a uniquely Scottish sense of humor about it. There was one protester who had a set of bagpipes and said, at least this bag of hot air has a purpose. So there's a lot of creativity. I mean, and Scotland, uniquely. Trump's mother is from Scotland and he claims that heritage and obviously has had a lot of conflicts over the years with his business. So, you know, when I was talking to people there, a couple of them said, like, we've known for decades that this guy's a problem. One person literally said like, we hated Trump before. It was cool. And so that was kind of a sense of the vibe there really, as I've traveled with him other places as well. I went to Canada for the G7 back in June and there it was so stark. Canada is not a place known for flag waving displays of patriotism. But Canadian flags are flying off the shelves when you go to a grocery store there items have made in Canada stickers on them. And so you really see how this is reshaping the global economy and just general moods toward America.

[Colby Kowitz]

That's a perfect segue, Kat. The US has always been a leader in the global community. Right. And now some countries seems like they're going to start developing an economic system where the US Isn't the leader. I mean, how long, David, can the US Maintain this position of implementing like these big tariffs all over the world and still be considered the leader of global trade?

[David Lynch]

Well, it's an open question because so far the US Is alone in embracing this very different economic model that I think is part of the reason why you haven't seen much retaliation. In addition to the leverage that the president commands is because retaliation would involve effectively taxing their own citizens, raising prices for their own citizens. And other countries are still largely in the camp of trying to increase or thicken their trade relationships with others. There's been talk of a trading system that would somehow arise up and isolate the U.S. or skirt the U.S. i think some of that talk is probably a little bit overstated. So far. There's been some diplomatic moves and diplomatic initiatives that would knit together the EU and India or the EU in a pacific trade deal that the US had pulled out of during President Trump's first term. And if this continues over time, you may see that develop over time. None of this stuff happens like closing a book. And it's also what economists worry about in terms of the tariffs effects on the economy is it's not going to be a cliff. It's more an erosion over time of competitiveness in the way that if you were going to run a marathon, you could do it the way you're sitting there now. Or I could give you a backpack with a 25 pound weight in it and tell you to run the Boston Marathon with that on your back. You'd be slower with the backpack, right? How much slower? I don't know, 30 seconds a minute? Probably more than 30 seconds a mile or a minute a mile, but over the 26, by that 26th mile mark, you'd really be slowing down and so the effects accumulate over time.

[Colby Kowitz]

Well, guys, this was such a great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on today. Kat, David, it's great to have you anytime.

[Kat Zakreski]

Thanks for having me.

[Colby Kowitz]

Kat Zakreski is a White House reporter for the Post, and David lynch covers trade. Today's episode was produced by Arjun Singh and mixed by Shawn Carter. It was edited by Rena Flores. Thanks to David Louder. Our team also includes Maggie Penman, Ted Muldoon, Alana Gordon, Ariel Plotnick, Rennie Sernovsky, Sabi Robinson, Emma Talkoff, Shawn Carter, Peter Brosnan, Laura Benchoff, Tadeo Ruiz, Sandoval, Thomas Liu, Renita Jablonski, Alahia Azadeh and Martine Powers. I'm Cole Bjkowicz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

[Robin Kivan]

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