Why going outside is good for you, even when it's freezing

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Post Reports – “Why going outside is good for you, even when it's freezing”
Published January 24, 2026 | Hosted by Maggie Penman

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Episode Overview

This episode of Post Reports explores the mental and physical health benefits of spending time outdoors, even during frigid winter months. Reporter Maggie Penman teams up with leading psychologists—Dr. Jessica Magidson, Dr. Heidi Schreiber Pan, and Dr. Mickey Moskowitz—to discuss research on nature’s impact on well-being, the growing trend of outdoor therapy, Scandinavian approaches to winter, and practical advice for making the most of cold-weather nature experiences. The episode interweaves expert insights, personal stories, and actionable tips for listeners who may be hesitant to step outside when it's cold.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Reluctance to Go Outside (00:03–01:00)

• Maggie Penman begins by sharing her own hesitation to go outside during the unusually cold DC winter, despite knowing it’s good for her.
• Dr. Jessica Magidson, a clinical psychologist and outdoor therapy advocate, joins Maggie for a walk, setting the experiential tone of the episode.

2. Why Outdoor Therapy? Therapist & Patient Benefits (01:00–01:53)

• Dr. Magidson describes her shift towards integrating nature into mental health care, citing both client and therapist burnout as motivators.
  • Quote: “As humans, we spend, it’s 93% of our lives indoors… It obviously didn’t used to be like that, and we’re not meant to be like that.” (Jessica Magidson, 01:41)

3. Research on Nature and Mental Health (03:08–04:53)

• Time in nature is correlated with stress reduction (lower cortisol), better sleep, and improved mood.
• Combining nature with physical activity amplifies benefits.
  • Quote: “Even at small doses, being able to really kind of regulate our body’s response to stress, it helps us sleep better. And it can also have direct effects on improving our mood as well, especially when you compare it with things like we’re doing now. Walking or exercise can kind of almost double the impact.” (Jessica Magidson, 03:08)
• Attention Restoration Theory: Nature provides “soft fascination”—it gently captures attention and gives the brain a restorative, mindful pause.
  • Quote: “We’re able to still have a conversation. We’re able to have more creative thoughts by having part of our attention captured by the natural beauty...” (Jessica Magidson, 04:05)

4. How Much Nature is Enough? (04:53–05:18)

• Research shows just 10 minutes outside can noticeably improve mental health—even for those who don’t enjoy it.
  • Quote: “Even 10 minutes of time outside or 10 minutes in nature can make an impact on our mental health.” (Jessica Magidson, 04:53)

5. Embracing Winter, Scandinavian Style (06:31–07:12)

• Dr. Heidi Schreiber Pan highlights Scandinavian attitudes:
  • Frei Luftlieben: Going outside daily, regardless of weather.
  • Hygge: Making your indoor time cozy and comforting after being outdoors.
    • Quote: “The happiest people on this planet are the Scandinavians… They have this whole way that they embrace winter… Go outside every single day for at least 10 minutes, no matter the weather.” (Heidi Schreiber Pan, 06:31)

6. Nature Therapy: History and Practice (07:12–10:40)

• Dr. Schreiber Pan’s research found a disconnect: many therapists relied on nature for their own well-being but didn’t extend this to clients.
  • Quote: “The common denominator was the natural world. People went to the beach or… sat by open water… Do you bring this to your clients? And people said no.” (Heidi Schreiber Pan, 08:15)
• She founded the Center for Nature Informed Therapy during the pandemic to train others, but notes only a small percentage of therapists practice it, citing limited training and preconceptions about what counts as “nature.”

7. Redefining Nature: It’s Not Just National Parks (10:40–11:13)

• Dr. Schreiber Pan and colleagues encourage recognizing city parks and small green spaces as valid, accessible “nature.”

8. Outdoor Therapy in Action: Real-World Benefits (12:35–13:20)

• Dr. Mickey Moskowitz reports that even a single walk with a patient can empower them to seek nature independently.
  • Quote: “Sometimes just that first session, we go for the walk and patients are like, Wow, I didn’t know this trail was here. And this is so beautiful. This feels so great. This is totally something I can do on my own.” (Mickey Moskowitz, 12:52)

9. Nature and Mindfulness: Making It Accessible (13:20–14:58)

• Mindfulness is easier and more natural for many people outside.
  • Quote: “When you’re outside, and this I love doing with patients… you’re doing a mindfulness practice… But it’s not hard work. It’s just so accessible and feels so good and so helpful and healthy.” (Mickey Moskowitz, 13:59)
• The team demonstrates a simple mindfulness exercise: noticing one beautiful thing in nature.

10. Practicalities of Outdoor Therapy (15:48–17:03)

• New guidelines stress the need for liability insurance, first aid, and clear informed consent about privacy and logistics.
• Therapists and clients prepare for possible encounters with others and decide together how to handle them.

11. Therapist & Client Rejuvenation (17:03–17:38)

• Outdoor sessions are energizing and restorative for therapists, too.
  • Quote: “The days that I have a walking session, I am just so much more alive. I’m so energized. My mood is just totally different.” (Mickey Moskowitz, 17:03)

12. Why Isn’t Outdoor Therapy More Common? (17:38–18:23)

• The approach is new and faces logistical and institutional inertia—but psychologists believe it holds huge promise for the future.
  • Quote: “When we get locked into these really rigid ideas of doing things one way because that’s how we’ve done it... we lose sight of what’s actually helpful for our clients.” (Mickey Moskowitz, 17:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “As humans, we spend, it’s 93% of our lives indoors.”
  — Jessica Magidson (01:41)

• “Even if you don’t like it, you still experience the cognitive benefits.”
  — Jessica Magidson (04:53)

• “The happiest people on this planet are the Scandinavians… They have this whole way that they embrace winter... Go outside every single day for at least 10 minutes, no matter the weather.”
  — Heidi Schreiber Pan (06:31)

• “Sometimes just that first session, we go for the walk and patients are like, Wow, I didn’t know this trail was here... This is totally something I can do on my own.”
  — Mickey Moskowitz (12:52)

• “When you’re outside... you’re doing a mindfulness practice... But it’s not hard work. It’s just so accessible and feels so good and so helpful and healthy.”
  — Mickey Moskowitz (13:59)

• “The days that I have a walking session, I am just so much more alive. I’m so energized. My mood is just totally different.”
  — Mickey Moskowitz (17:03)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:03 – Maggie Penman sets out for a winter walk with Dr. Jessica Magidson
• 01:41 – Shocking stat: 93% of our lives spent indoors (Jessica Magidson)
• 03:08 – Research on benefits: Stress reduction, sleep, mood (Jessica Magidson)
• 04:05 – “Attention restoration” and “soft fascination” concepts
• 04:53 – Just 10 minutes in nature makes a difference (Jessica Magidson)
• 06:31 – Scandinavian secrets: Frei Luftlieben & hygge (Heidi Schreiber Pan)
• 08:15 – Disconnect: Therapists don’t use nature with clients (Heidi Schreiber Pan)
• 10:07–10:40 – Nature therapy is rare due to training and misconceptions
• 12:52 – Patient transformations during outdoor therapy (Mickey Moskowitz)
• 13:59 – Nature makes mindfulness easier and more enjoyable (Mickey Moskowitz)
• 15:48 – Logistics of outdoor therapy & new APA guidelines
• 17:03 – Therapist benefits: Feeling more alive and energized (Mickey Moskowitz)
• 17:57 – Call for diversity in therapy delivery models (Mickey Moskowitz)

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Takeaways & Practical Tips

• Even a short time outside is beneficial, regardless of weather or mood.
• Mindfulness and stress reduction practices can be naturally integrated into walks as simple as noticing a color or sound.
• You don’t need wild landscapes—urban parks and green spaces count.
• If you’re a therapist or patient, discuss privacy and logistics in advance for outdoor sessions.
• Borrow from Scandinavian traditions: create comfort after braving the elements.
• The trend is growing, and new guidelines and training are emerging for clinicians.

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This episode is a refreshing deep-dive into why braving the cold for a walk is not only tolerable—it’s transformative for your mind and body. The journalists’ and experts’ warmth makes this as cozy as a mug of cocoa after a wintry stroll.

Transcript

[Maggie Penman]

On a recent Thursday morning, I started my day with a walk in the woods.

[Jessica Magidson]

So we're approaching a little bit of a steeper part, and then it'll level out and we can pause.

[Maggie Penman]

We're gonna be huffing and puffing. It has been very cold here in D.C. so I've been having trouble getting myself outside, even though I know it's so, so good for me. But on this particular day, I was out here for work. So tell me, first of all, actually, just. I'm gonna have you introduce yourself just for the audio.

[Jessica Magidson]

Yeah, yeah. Hi, I'm Jessica Magotson. So I'm a clinical psychologist and a professor at the University of Maryland and have been doing work for a couple decades now looking at how we increase access to mental health care, and over the past year, have become extremely passionate about how we can do this outside.

[Maggie Penman]

When most of us think of therapy, we probably picture an office with a chair and a couch or maybe even just a screen. Virtual therapy sessions have become a lot more common in the past few years. Jess Magidson is part of a small but growing movement of psychologists who want to change that. They. They want to take therapy outside. There are a lot of benefits for clients to doing therapy outside, but Jess believes there are also huge benefits for therapists who have been experiencing really high levels of burnout in the last few years.

[Jessica Magidson]

As humans, we spend it's 93% of our lives in doors.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

Wow.

[Maggie Penman]

It's like.

[Jessica Magidson]

It obviously didn't used to be like that, and we're not meant to be like that. And so I do really think that a lot of the shifts that we see at this time of year, people are more likely to be inside, less likely to get the sunlight they need. It does affect our mood. And what we need is this, you know?

[Maggie Penman]

Right. I'm Maggie Penman. I'm a reporter for the Optimist, the section here at the Post where we tell you about things that are going right in the world. Because, believe it or not, there are things going right in the world. It's Saturday, January 24th, and today we're going outside. So layer up, get a good coat on, and take this podcast with you.

[Jessica Magidson]

Okay, so here we have the point. We can either go through the wooded trails or we can keep on the pavement. We keep on the pavement and then loop back on the wooded trails if you wanted.

[Maggie Penman]

Let's do the woods. Right. I feel like we're talking about it. We gotta practice what we preach here. On a walk in Rock Creek park in Washington, D.C. i asked Jess to first just explain why being out in nature is so good for our mental health.

[Jessica Magidson]

Yeah, so I think we have so much research that has demonstrated the effects of spending time in nature on our physical and our mental health. And from a, you know, a mental health perspective, we've seen that it can really reduce our stress levels and reduce, you know, let's say, cortisol, which is our stress hormone. And even at small doses, being able to really kind of regulate our body's response to stress, it helps us sleep better. And it can also have direct effects on improving our mood as well, especially when you compare it with things like we're doing now. Walking or exercise can kind of almost double the impact.

[Maggie Penman]

There's also this theory called attention restoration. Researchers have found that taking a walk out in nature improves our ability to pay attention and remember things.

[Jessica Magidson]

Something about time and nature. Again, this, like, being able to tune into the world around us and that it captures our attention while also not fully. So we're able to still have a conversation. We're able to kind of have more creative thoughts by having part of our attention captured by the natural beauty, if that makes sense.

[Maggie Penman]

Researchers call this soft fascination. You can walk through the woods and look at the trees, notice the leaves, the sound of the wind, the birds. Nature engages us, but it doesn't necessarily take our full attention. And the result is a kind of mini mindfulness break for your brain. And one cool thing is it really doesn't take a lot to feel the benefits. And you don't even have to like it.

[Jessica Magidson]

There's a bit of research showing that even 10 minutes of time outside or 10 minutes in nature can make an impact on our mental health. So I think being able to start small, have realistic expectations for ourselves. The other piece, too, is that we have shown that even if you don't like it, you still experience the cognitive benefits.

[Maggie Penman]

That's hilarious. I mean, that makes sense too, right? It's still good for you, even if you're like, ugh, yeah, exactly. I have totally experienced this myself. As I mentioned, it's been bitterly cold in D.C. this winter, which is pretty unusual here. And on a recent Sunday, I was inside with my toddler and my dog, and I made myself take all of us out for a walk. We were probably outside for, like, 20 minutes total. And I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It was painfully cold and there were definitely tears. My daughter's for sure, maybe also mine. But afterwards, I felt so much better, and I could tell she did, too. The dog was Definitely happier. The other thing I noticed is that being home felt so much better afterwards. Before going out, my messy living room had felt kind of stuffy. But after it felt cozy. I talked about how we can embrace the winter better with Dr. Heidi Schreiber Pan, the executive director and founder of the center for Nature Informed Therapy.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

So one thing to note is that the happiest people on this planet are the Scandinavians.

[Maggie Penman]

Right.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

The last five years, they scored the highest in happiness. They also have the longest winters.

[Maggie Penman]

Yeah.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

So they have this whole way that they embrace winter and they do it through these two concepts. The one is called Frei Luftlieben, which means go outside every single day for at least 10 minutes, no matter the weather. And the second part to that is hygge. And hygge is when you go back in after you've just been outside, you've earned yourself nest and you make a fire, you light a candle, or you make your favorite tea.

[Maggie Penman]

It turns out I had accidentally done this winter day the Scandinavian way. And it felt great. Heidi started her center to train people in offering nature therapy either at the best time or the worst time, depending on your perspective.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

So it was founded in 2020, March. Ish. So right in the. In the middle of an event that we are trying to forget about.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

Oh boy.

[Maggie Penman]

Wow. But also like, it kind of couldn't have come at a better time. And I feel like it. I mean, for lots of reasons, because so many people had mental health struggles, but then also like the fact that it was less dangerous to be outside and. And there was this like, opportunity for a lot of people to start trying this. While a lot of therapists took their practices online during the pandemic, a few started doing therapy outdoors or walk and talk therapy. It happened organically just because it was safer to be outside than inside. But Heidi had been thinking about this for years before that.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

Yeah, it was really an interesting kind of journey because I was a doctorate student in counseling psychology at Loyola University in Maryland and projects was to interview mental health professionals about burnout and secondary stress and compassion fatigue. And so I was interviewing a whole bunch of people and my question was, was there anything that they did for their own self care or that they noticed was sort of buffer her burnout. And people answered it in different ways. They would say, well, when I come home, I have to go for a walk. Some people said I just go to do my garden. Some people said, I get on my bike. Some people said, I actually got into birding. But you know, it was like different answers, but it was all the common denominator was the natural world. People went to the beach or they sat by an open, you know, open water. And so I was so excited to find this field theme that they were talking about. And then a follow up question was, do you bring this to your clients? And people said no. And I thought there was such an interesting disconnect between here was something people knew was really helping them with their own ability to bring well being to their own self. But that was not translating into bringing it to their clients. And I thought, wow, this is, this is worth investigating.

[Maggie Penman]

Heidi couldn't find much research or many trainings for bringing therapy out into the natural world. So that became her dissertation research and after getting her Ph.D. she started working towards putting it into practice. Other clinicians are joining her. Though it's still not a lot of.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

Therapists, I would say that it's still a small percentage of people. The reason being is that there is not a lot of training out there. And then I think too is that like people think of nature. You know, it's the first thing we ask them at the training. When you think of nature, what comes to mind? And they talk about like these beautiful parks or a national park or the mountains or the ocean and where is your therapy office? Not there.

[Maggie Penman]

Heidi says that part of the training she's offering is just trying to open up therapists and the rest of us to this idea that even a city park can be nature and there can be huge benefits to going outside even if we don't go to the mountains. After the break, we'll hear from a therapist who is actually practicing outside with her clients. We'll be right back.

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[Maggie Penman]

Why pay when you can slash with TikTok slash and free. You can cut prices down all the way to zero. Just download TikTok search free, pick items in TikTok shop, share the link and and boom. Free items unlocked even with free shipping so seriously, why pay, download TikTok and start slashing now? When Mickey Moskowitz was in college, she led backpacking trips for freshmen. And she was always amazed by how in just a couple of short days, she watched these young people be totally transformed by being in nature with each other.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

There's just, it's a different level of connection when you're walking outside together than when you're sitting.

[Maggie Penman]

Mickey works as a psychologist in a primary care setting, which means she's sometimes seeing patients just a couple of times or maybe only once, and she wants to help them as quickly as possible.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

So what I've seen that's so encouraging is that, you know, sometimes just that first session, we go for the walk and patients are like, wow, I didn't want, I didn't know this trail was here. And this is so beautiful. This feels so great. This is totally something I can do on my own. And so that is so much more powerful than just if we're sitting in my office, which has no windows, we're just talking about the idea of going outside, you know, as we sit in this like, climate controlled room with no windows.

[Maggie Penman]

Right. Another benefit Mickey mentioned to me is that being in nature encourages mindfulness. Mindfulness is a tool that lots of psychologists will suggest to people to improve their mental health. There's a ton of research about the benefits, but it's hard. Mindfulness means meditating, being fully present in the moment, just noticing what's around you, noticing thoughts as they pass through your mind without following them. It's easier said than done.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

And so many people are like, I can't do mindfulness meditation. I just get distracted.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

It's harder.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

I can never make time for it. And honestly, I feel that way too. Yeah, I struggle to kind of implement it, but when you're outside, and this I love doing with patients is like, we're doing these mindfulness practices outside and it's so rich because we can say, okay, just look up at the treetops and notice what you see, notice what you hear. Now you're turn tuning into the bird song. Look for something that's moving and you're watching, like the branches sway in the breeze or, you know, look at something close up or look at something far away. And it's that you're doing a mindfulness practice and you're tuning into your senses and you're focusing your attention. But it's not hard work. It's just so accessible and feels so good and so helpful and healthy. The people can really connect to it. I think Often a lot more easily than they can with the kind of more classic mindfulness meditation.

[Maggie Penman]

I did a version of this in the woods on my walk with Jess. We stopped near this patch of ivy and just tried to notice what was.

[Jessica Magidson]

Around us and take a moment to just notice. What is one thing that is beautiful to you in nature right now?

[Maggie Penman]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like this green is just, like, so gorgeous and so rare this time of year. To see lush green.

[Jessica Magidson]

Really tuned into the colors.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

Yeah.

[Jessica Magidson]

I think for me, when we pause and I notice it's like that sound of the rustling of the leaves and the wind, which, you know, I think as we pause, it also gets a little bit colder. But it's that that sound is something that I find so soothing. And I think for each person, it's different, but allowing ourselves to pause and kind of see things in a bit of a different way, too.

[Maggie Penman]

If you're anything like me, you might be thinking, all of this sounds lovely, but how does this work logistically? The American Psychological association just offered some new guidelines a couple of months ago to therapists who want to try and incorporate nature therapy or walk and talk into their practices. First, they definitely recommend getting liability insurance and learning basic first aid, being prepared with some basic supplies you might need, and getting trained in outdoor therapy. Therapists aren't supposed to practice a kind of therapy they're not trained in. And then there are the privacy concerns. If you're having a conversation in a park or on a trail, there is a chance you could be overheard. The biggest thing Mickey Moskowitz has found is that it takes some forethought and conversations between therapists and their clients or patients before they go outside. Therapists call this informed consent.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

We talk about, okay, so, you know, if we pass other people on the trail, what are we going to do? If we run into somebody that, you know, what are we going to do? Just so that they've had a chance to anticipate that and think about it. You talk about it, and they. They know what to expect.

[Maggie Penman]

For Mickey, it's been totally worth the extra planning. Her clients like it, and so does she.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

The days that I have a walking session, I am just so much more alive. I'm so energized. My mood is just totally different.

[Maggie Penman]

And it's.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

You know, I kind of got used to it this fall, and then I had just understandably, less interest in it. Some people wanted to go through the winter, but a lot of people didn't. So I was kind of in withdrawal for a little bit in December because I didn't. I went for like a few weeks without having any. I'm like, oh my gosh, I miss.

[Heidi Schreiber Pan]

It.

[Maggie Penman]

In a lot of ways. As I was having these conversations, I felt like outdoor therapy kind of feels like a no brainer. It's good for us to walk outside. Of course it would compound the benefits of therapy, but it's still a relatively small trend and the psychologists I spoke with think that's mostly because it's new.

[Mickey Moskowitz]

There's so many different ways to deliver care. And when we get locked into these really rigid ideas of doing things one way because that's how we've done it and that's how we've studied it, and this is what's comfortable and this is what logistically works for our schedules, we lose sight of what's actually helpful for our clients.

[Maggie Penman]

Doctor Mickey Moskowitz is a clinical psychologist in Maryland. You also heard from Dr. Jess Magetson and Dr. Heidi Schreiber pan I'm Maggie Penman. I'm a reporter for the Optimist. If you want to hear more stories like this on the weekend, please, please send me an email. You can reach the whole [e-mail] or just me@maggie penmanshpost.com and if you want more uplifting stories or more information about the mental health benefits of being out in nature, check out our show notes. I'll include some links there. This episode was produced by me with help from Rennie Svirnofsky, who also mixed the show. It was edited by Alison Klein and Ariel Plotnick. Thank you. Also to Shawn Carter. Thank you for listening. Have a lovely rest of your weekend and go outside, even if it's just for a few minutes.

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