Podcast Summary: Post Reports – "Why the U.S. Won't Quit Saudi Arabia"
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Elahe Izadi
Guest: Michael Birnbaum, White House Correspondent, The Washington Post
Episode Overview
This episode examines the renewed public embrace of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) by the U.S. government, despite his recent pariah status following the 2018 killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Through an in-depth conversation with White House correspondent Michael Birnbaum, the podcast explores what’s driving the U.S. back into close partnership with Saudi Arabia and what both sides gain from this complex relationship. The episode tracks the rehabilitation of MBS’s image in Washington, the practical and moral dilemmas faced by successive U.S. presidents, and the web of personal, economic, and geopolitical interests binding the two nations.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Public Rehabilitation of MBS
[00:02 – 06:33]
-
Spectacular Return to Washington:
MBS’s first visit to the U.S. since Khashoggi’s murder was marked by extraordinary pageantry—a White House dinner, an F35 flyover, state-level receptions, and an investment summit. -
Trump’s Overt Support:
President Trump publicly lauds MBS, calling him “a true partner for peace and prosperity” and downplaying Khashoggi’s killing. He physically demonstrates warmth, sharply contrasting Biden's prior, more restrained interactions.“You shake his hand, you don’t give him a fist bump.” — Donald Trump [04:13]
-
Media Management:
Trump sidesteps and defends MBS when questioned about the Khashoggi murder, shielding him from scrutiny.“You don’t have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.” — Donald Trump [01:54]
2. Who is Mohammed bin Salman?
[06:12 – 07:57]
- Portrait of a Modernizer and Enforcer:
- De facto leader, given his father the King’s age and ill health.
- Seen as a generational shift: liberalizing some laws and promoting modernization but also ruthless with critics.
- Personally implicated by U.S. intelligence in the Khashoggi killing.
3. The Khashoggi Affair and its Fallout
[07:57 – 12:35]
-
Intelligence Findings:
- U.S. intelligence conclusions drawn from audio recordings and intercepts implicate MBS directly in Khashoggi’s murder.
- The Saudi regime maintains denial at the highest levels, punishing lower officials instead.
-
Political Repercussions:
- Outrage in Congress—sanctions attempted, U.S. involvement in Saudi conflicts (e.g., Yemen) limited.
- Political pressure led Biden to promise making Saudi Arabia a “pariah” state.
4. Biden’s Dilemma and the Durability of the Relationship
[11:41 – 13:52]
-
Returning to the Fold:
Initially frosty, Biden’s posture toward Saudi Arabia softened dramatically after the war in Ukraine in 2022—a spike in oil prices made Saudi cooperation indispensable.“He still needs to deal with them or he feels he does, at least. And in particular he needs their help to keep global energy prices low.” — Michael Birnbaum [11:48]
-
Awkward Engagements:
Biden’s infamous fist bump with MBS, meant to be less formal, drew both derision and symbolic meaning.
5. Why the U.S. Can't Quit Saudi Arabia
[16:28 – 20:09]
-
Pragmatic Partnership:
- Saudi Arabia’s vast oil reserves, political influence, and wealth make it a critical partner.
- U.S. presidents repeatedly prioritize practical benefits (energy, regional stability) over values.
-
Geopolitical Chessboard:
- For Trump, Saudi normalization with Israel is seen as “the big prize” for Middle East peace.
“The fewer economic ties there are, the easier it is to wage war with each other.” — Michael Birnbaum [17:38]
6. What Saudi Arabia Gets
[18:45 – 20:55]
-
Military and Economic Gains:
Advanced U.S. weaponry, defense assistance, investments, and greater ability to shape regional politics in places like Yemen, Syria, and vis-à-vis Iran. -
Leverage:
U.S. mediation is valuable to MBS for Saudi ambitions, including possible normalization with Israel.
7. Entwined Business and Personal Ties
[20:55 – 22:45]
- Personal Business Interconnections:
- MBS and Trump view themselves as leaders of “family businesses,” expanding familial and organizational dealings.
- Trump Organization and Jared Kushner have acquired significant Saudi financial investment.
“Their own personal economic stakes and fortunes are increasingly entwined.” — Michael Birnbaum [21:12]
8. Lawmaker and Public Reactions
[22:45 – 24:13]
-
Skepticism and Discomfort:
- Lawmakers remain uneasy, especially regarding advanced military sales (e.g., F35 fighter jets), which raise questions about Israel’s qualitative military edge.
- Many of the grand announcements remain vague and possibly exaggerated in their details.
-
Image Rehabilitation:
- The spectacle of U.S. hospitality and major deals enables MBS to present himself as fully welcomed back, effectively absolving him in the public eye.
9. Saudi Arabia’s Global Image-Building
[25:06 – 26:40]
- Cultural Investments:
- MBS, characterized as a millennial, actively invests in global entertainment, sports, and pop culture initiatives (e.g., LIV Golf, major soccer signings, comedy festivals) as a form of soft power and reputational recovery.
“He is investing in a bunch of things that bring Saudi Arabia out of this world in which it had been a very religiously and socially conservative nation… even while maintaining a fair amount of repression in various ways at home.” — Michael Birnbaum [25:40]
10. What to Watch Going Forward
[26:40 – 28:28]
-
Personal Diplomacy:
Birnbaum notes Trump’s preference for personal dealings with global leaders (including MBS) as a defining trait. -
Business and Geopolitical Stakes:
Keeping an eye on the Trump Organization’s growing Saudi connections and the broader role Saudi Arabia will play in issues like Gaza, Palestinian statehood, and Israel-Arab normalization efforts.“The Saudis have a fair amount of leverage on this. They are pushing the Israelis, they're pushing the Americans… Only then, they say, will they fully normalize relations with Israel.” — Michael Birnbaum [27:32]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Rehabilitation:
“This is the biggest, fanciest roll out all the red carpets reception that President Trump has given any world leader so far this term.”
— Michael Birnbaum [02:53] -
On Trump's Defensiveness:
“He basically smash[ed] at any reporter who dared question what was going on.”
— Michael Birnbaum [02:53] -
On the Power of Saudi Investments:
“Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has clearly figured out the way to President Trump’s heart, which is talk about very large sums of money.”
— Michael Birnbaum [05:36] -
On Values vs. Interests:
“This is not the first conflict of values versus practicality.”
— Michael Birnbaum [16:43] -
On Accountability:
“There was never any accountability at the senior most levels of Saudi Arabia.”
— Michael Birnbaum [09:03]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Intro and Episode Setup: 00:02 – 02:28
- MBS’s Washington Return & Trump’s Reception: 02:29 – 06:33
- Who is MBS? 06:33 – 07:57
- Khashoggi Killing—Intelligence and Aftermath: 07:57 – 11:03
- Biden’s Initial Freeze and Subsequent Engagement: 11:41 – 13:52
- Strategic Reasons for U.S.-Saudi Partnership: 16:28 – 20:55
- Personal/Business Connections – Trump and MBS: 20:55 – 22:45
- Congressional Reactions & Image Rehabilitation: 22:45 – 24:13
- Saudi Soft Power Investments: 25:06 – 26:40
- Threads to Watch Going Forward: 26:40 – 28:28
Summary Takeaways
The U.S.-Saudi relationship is shaped less by ideals and more by enduring strategic, economic, and even personal interests. The public rehabilitation of MBS, orchestrated through showy diplomacy and business ties, underscores the persistent American need for Saudi oil, investments, and Middle East influence—and the Saudi need for American security guarantees and legitimacy. Despite past promises of ostracism, realpolitik continues to dominate. As both nations’ leaders see their fortunes entwined, decisions in the coming months will reverberate not just in Washington and Riyadh, but throughout global energy markets and volatile geopolitical theaters.