Why the U.S. won't quit Saudi Arabia

Summary

Podcast Summary: Post Reports – "Why the U.S. Won't Quit Saudi Arabia"

Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Elahe Izadi
Guest: Michael Birnbaum, White House Correspondent, The Washington Post

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the renewed public embrace of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) by the U.S. government, despite his recent pariah status following the 2018 killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Through an in-depth conversation with White House correspondent Michael Birnbaum, the podcast explores what’s driving the U.S. back into close partnership with Saudi Arabia and what both sides gain from this complex relationship. The episode tracks the rehabilitation of MBS’s image in Washington, the practical and moral dilemmas faced by successive U.S. presidents, and the web of personal, economic, and geopolitical interests binding the two nations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Public Rehabilitation of MBS

[00:02 – 06:33]

• Spectacular Return to Washington:
  MBS’s first visit to the U.S. since Khashoggi’s murder was marked by extraordinary pageantry—a White House dinner, an F35 flyover, state-level receptions, and an investment summit.

• Trump’s Overt Support:
  President Trump publicly lauds MBS, calling him “a true partner for peace and prosperity” and downplaying Khashoggi’s killing. He physically demonstrates warmth, sharply contrasting Biden's prior, more restrained interactions.

  “You shake his hand, you don’t give him a fist bump.” — Donald Trump [04:13]

• Media Management:
  Trump sidesteps and defends MBS when questioned about the Khashoggi murder, shielding him from scrutiny.

  “You don’t have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.” — Donald Trump [01:54]

2. Who is Mohammed bin Salman?

[06:12 – 07:57]

• Portrait of a Modernizer and Enforcer:
  • De facto leader, given his father the King’s age and ill health.
  • Seen as a generational shift: liberalizing some laws and promoting modernization but also ruthless with critics.
  • Personally implicated by U.S. intelligence in the Khashoggi killing.

3. The Khashoggi Affair and its Fallout

[07:57 – 12:35]

• Intelligence Findings:

  • U.S. intelligence conclusions drawn from audio recordings and intercepts implicate MBS directly in Khashoggi’s murder.
  • The Saudi regime maintains denial at the highest levels, punishing lower officials instead.

• Political Repercussions:

  • Outrage in Congress—sanctions attempted, U.S. involvement in Saudi conflicts (e.g., Yemen) limited.
  • Political pressure led Biden to promise making Saudi Arabia a “pariah” state.

4. Biden’s Dilemma and the Durability of the Relationship

[11:41 – 13:52]

• Returning to the Fold:
  Initially frosty, Biden’s posture toward Saudi Arabia softened dramatically after the war in Ukraine in 2022—a spike in oil prices made Saudi cooperation indispensable.

  “He still needs to deal with them or he feels he does, at least. And in particular he needs their help to keep global energy prices low.” — Michael Birnbaum [11:48]

• Awkward Engagements:
  Biden’s infamous fist bump with MBS, meant to be less formal, drew both derision and symbolic meaning.

5. Why the U.S. Can't Quit Saudi Arabia

[16:28 – 20:09]

• Pragmatic Partnership:

  • Saudi Arabia’s vast oil reserves, political influence, and wealth make it a critical partner.
  • U.S. presidents repeatedly prioritize practical benefits (energy, regional stability) over values.

• Geopolitical Chessboard:

  • For Trump, Saudi normalization with Israel is seen as “the big prize” for Middle East peace.

  “The fewer economic ties there are, the easier it is to wage war with each other.” — Michael Birnbaum [17:38]

6. What Saudi Arabia Gets

[18:45 – 20:55]

• Military and Economic Gains:
  Advanced U.S. weaponry, defense assistance, investments, and greater ability to shape regional politics in places like Yemen, Syria, and vis-à-vis Iran.

• Leverage:
  U.S. mediation is valuable to MBS for Saudi ambitions, including possible normalization with Israel.

7. Entwined Business and Personal Ties

[20:55 – 22:45]

• Personal Business Interconnections:
  • MBS and Trump view themselves as leaders of “family businesses,” expanding familial and organizational dealings.
  • Trump Organization and Jared Kushner have acquired significant Saudi financial investment.

  “Their own personal economic stakes and fortunes are increasingly entwined.” — Michael Birnbaum [21:12]

8. Lawmaker and Public Reactions

[22:45 – 24:13]

• Skepticism and Discomfort:

  • Lawmakers remain uneasy, especially regarding advanced military sales (e.g., F35 fighter jets), which raise questions about Israel’s qualitative military edge.
  • Many of the grand announcements remain vague and possibly exaggerated in their details.

• Image Rehabilitation:

  • The spectacle of U.S. hospitality and major deals enables MBS to present himself as fully welcomed back, effectively absolving him in the public eye.

9. Saudi Arabia’s Global Image-Building

[25:06 – 26:40]

• Cultural Investments:
  • MBS, characterized as a millennial, actively invests in global entertainment, sports, and pop culture initiatives (e.g., LIV Golf, major soccer signings, comedy festivals) as a form of soft power and reputational recovery.

  “He is investing in a bunch of things that bring Saudi Arabia out of this world in which it had been a very religiously and socially conservative nation… even while maintaining a fair amount of repression in various ways at home.” — Michael Birnbaum [25:40]

10. What to Watch Going Forward

[26:40 – 28:28]

• Personal Diplomacy:
  Birnbaum notes Trump’s preference for personal dealings with global leaders (including MBS) as a defining trait.

• Business and Geopolitical Stakes:
  Keeping an eye on the Trump Organization’s growing Saudi connections and the broader role Saudi Arabia will play in issues like Gaza, Palestinian statehood, and Israel-Arab normalization efforts.

  “The Saudis have a fair amount of leverage on this. They are pushing the Israelis, they're pushing the Americans… Only then, they say, will they fully normalize relations with Israel.” — Michael Birnbaum [27:32]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Rehabilitation:

  “This is the biggest, fanciest roll out all the red carpets reception that President Trump has given any world leader so far this term.”
  — Michael Birnbaum [02:53]

• On Trump's Defensiveness:

  “He basically smash[ed] at any reporter who dared question what was going on.”
  — Michael Birnbaum [02:53]

• On the Power of Saudi Investments:

  “Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has clearly figured out the way to President Trump’s heart, which is talk about very large sums of money.”
  — Michael Birnbaum [05:36]

• On Values vs. Interests:

  “This is not the first conflict of values versus practicality.”
  — Michael Birnbaum [16:43]

• On Accountability:

  “There was never any accountability at the senior most levels of Saudi Arabia.”
  — Michael Birnbaum [09:03]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro and Episode Setup: 00:02 – 02:28
• MBS’s Washington Return & Trump’s Reception: 02:29 – 06:33
• Who is MBS? 06:33 – 07:57
• Khashoggi Killing—Intelligence and Aftermath: 07:57 – 11:03
• Biden’s Initial Freeze and Subsequent Engagement: 11:41 – 13:52
• Strategic Reasons for U.S.-Saudi Partnership: 16:28 – 20:55
• Personal/Business Connections – Trump and MBS: 20:55 – 22:45
• Congressional Reactions & Image Rehabilitation: 22:45 – 24:13
• Saudi Soft Power Investments: 25:06 – 26:40
• Threads to Watch Going Forward: 26:40 – 28:28

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Summary Takeaways

The U.S.-Saudi relationship is shaped less by ideals and more by enduring strategic, economic, and even personal interests. The public rehabilitation of MBS, orchestrated through showy diplomacy and business ties, underscores the persistent American need for Saudi oil, investments, and Middle East influence—and the Saudi need for American security guarantees and legitimacy. Despite past promises of ostracism, realpolitik continues to dominate. As both nations’ leaders see their fortunes entwined, decisions in the coming months will reverberate not just in Washington and Riyadh, but throughout global energy markets and volatile geopolitical theaters.

Transcript

[Elahe Izadi]

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman used to be considered a pariah. In 2018, the US intelligence community concluded that he had approved the killing and dismemberment of a Washington Post columnist, Jamal Khashoggi. U.S. lawmakers condemned the crown prince. They passed a resolution blaming him for Khashoggi's death. And the US Withdrew support from a Saudi led war in Yemen. But Mohammed bin Salman's pariah status didn't last long. President Donald Trump pulled out all the stops this week for Mohammed bin Salman's first visit to the US since Khashoggi's killing. There was an F35 flyover in Washington, A grand White House dinner with Wall street executives and tech CEOs.

[Donald Trump]

He has become a true partner for peace and prosperity for our countries and for the world and for peace in the Middle East.

[Elahe Izadi]

An investment summit at the Kennedy Center.

[Donald Trump]

I want to thank my friend and great gentleman, Crown Prince Mohammed of Saudi Arabia, for his bold leadership and deep commitment to the ties between our two countries. Thank you. Thank you.

[Elahe Izadi]

And a sit down in the Oval Office where Trump defended the crown prince when reporters asked him directly about the killing.

[Donald Trump]

As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen. But he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.

[Elahe Izadi]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Elahi izadi. It's Wednesday, November 19th. Today, the public rehabilitation of Mohammed bin Salman. Post White House correspondent Michael Birnbaum traces that arc and explains why the US can't seem to quit Saudi Arabia. Hi, Michael. Thanks for joining me today.

[Michael Birnbaum]

Hi, Alahia. Thanks for having me.

[Elahe Izadi]

Before we dive into this conversation, I wanted to just get your gut reaction to the events. Tuesday, Mohammed bin Salman arrived in Washington. He's here for a couple days. I've lived here for a very long time. I've never seen the city shut down in the way that it's shut down to accommodate this visit. What is your initial reaction to just covering everything that you did yesterday and last night?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Well, so this is the biggest, fanciest roll out all the red carpets reception that President Trump has given any world leader so far this term. And we just saw a totally crazy scene unfold in the Oval Office yesterday in which Trump basically did everything he could to show his affection for the Saudi leader, who has a rather complicated human rights record. And he basically smash at any reporter who dared question what was going on.

[Elahe Izadi]

Yeah. When you say crazy, what do you mean by that?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Well, we can talk about the actual pomp and circumstance. We had some beautiful black horses prancing across the South Lawn of the White House. We had Saudi flags everywhere, fluttering alongside the US Flag. That's actually not that normal here in Washington. And then once in the Oval Office, this display of physical affection. Trump patting MBS Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on the back. He was making fun of President Biden for, at one point, Biden's refusal to shake hands with the Crown Prince. And he just did a fist bump.

[Donald Trump]

Remember Biden, he travels for 20 hours, gets out and he gives a fist bump? No. When you get out of the plane and you got the future king and a man who's one of the most respected people in the world, you shake his hand, you don't give him a fist bump. Right.

[Michael Birnbaum]

Trump kind of grabbed on to his hand, his wrist and then his hand. It was like, physical. Very physical.

[Donald Trump]

And Trump doesn't give a fist pump. I grab that hand. I don't give a hell where that hand's been. I grabbed that.

[Elahe Izadi]

Fascinating. So can you tell me a little bit more about the substance of what emerged from this arrival yesterday and this meeting in the Oval Office and this event, this dinner at night?

[Michael Birnbaum]

So this is a trip that's designed to show off the close ties between President Trump and the Crown Prince and more broadly, the United States and Saudi Arabia. So that's about investments, that's about close defense ties, that's about any number of things that is an attempt on Trump's part to bring the Saudis in and bring Saudi money in to the United States.

[Elahe Izadi]

Do you know how much money is now being signed as part of these conversations?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Well, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has clearly figured out the way to President Trump's heart, which is talk about very large sums of money. So he, at the beginning of this year, said that Saudis were going to invest $600 billion in the United States. This trip, he's upping it to almost a trillion dollars, he said, but there's actually not that much detail about it. A trillion dollars? Over what period of time? The Saudi sovereign wealth fund is about a trillion dollars. So the math is a little iffy, but Trump loves it.

[Elahe Izadi]

Yeah. So, Michael, now I wanna step back for a moment and just trace the arc of how we got to this moment and this spectacle and everything that you just laid out. So first, can you tell me a little bit more about the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, also referred to as mbs. Who is he? What is his role in Saudi Arabia?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Mohammed bin Salman, he's the de facto leader of Saudi Arabia. His father, the king, is very old. He's ailing. He's basically out of the picture in terms of running day to day operations of the Saudi nation. He's young. He's as young as these things go. He's 40 years old. He sort of ascended over the last decade or so. So he was kind of on the up and up in Trump's first term. MBS is someone who has portrayed himself and in many ways has been a modernizer in Saudi Arabia. There's generational change afoot. This is not a country that has had a young leader in a very long time. He's interested in basketball, he's interested in soccer. He's liberalized some elements of what had been a very kind of repressive situation for women within Saudi Arabia. He's also shown himself to be extremely tough on his critics, including, of course, you know, against one prominent critic, our former colleague, this columnist, Jamal Khashoggi, who was very critical of Saudi rule in general and also critical of MBS. And Khashoggi was of course, killed in 2018.

[Elahe Izadi]

Yeah, I want to pick up from there. I mentioned earlier that the US Intelligence community concluded that the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman had ordered Khashoggi's killing and Khashoggi disappeared after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in 2018. How did the US intelligence community come to that conclusion?

[Michael Birnbaum]

So the conclusion of the CIA and the US Intelligence community was based on multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call between the Crown Prince's brother and Khashoggi himself. And then also quite famously, there was an audio recording from the consulate, a listening device inside that Saudi consulate in Istanbul. And so there was a recording of the sounds of Khashoggi being killed and dismembered.

[Elahe Izadi]

Yeah, we should say it was a very brutal killing. What was the official response from the Saudi government to this assessment?

[Michael Birnbaum]

The Saudis never accepted mbs, never said, oh yeah, I was responsible. They have always said, this is a very unfortunate death. We're going to look into it. They said they did an investigation. They put some lower level officials on trial and kind of pinned the blame on others. There was never any accountability at the senior most levels of Saudi Arabia.

[Elahe Izadi]

And that remained the case yesterday in the Oval office when an ABC reporter asked Trump and MBS directly about this.

[Michael Birnbaum]

So Trump was extremely upset about this questioning. Honestly, I thought that the Saudi Crown Prince was not. He was prepared. He had his lines about the journalists.

[Donald Trump]

It's really painful to hear, you know, anyone that been losing his life for no real purpose or not in a legal way.

[Michael Birnbaum]

And it's been painful for us in Saudi Arabia. So he handled it the way you'd expect a leader to handle it. It was Trump who was so upset on his behalf.

[Elahe Izadi]

So what happened to the standing of Saudi Arabia and the Crown Prince after this killing? And also this conclusion that he was responsible for it.

[Michael Birnbaum]

So this was partway through Trump's term, right around the midway point, the first go round. President Trump even back then was still very interested in close relations with the Saudis. He wasn't all that excited about letting the killing get in his way. But it did interrupt US Saudi relations for quite some time. It made it difficult to engage in deep defense cooperation.

[Elahe Izadi]

Why? Were there lawmakers or was there political pressure here?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Well, there's a lot of, yeah, there's fury in Congress. The U.S. senate approved a measure to end the U.S. role in the Saudi led war in Yemen. There was a unanimously approved resolution blaming the Crown Prince Prince for Khashoggi's death. And it did put a damper on US Saudi cooperation for quite a number of years. It was a big issue in the 2020 presidential campaign. And then candidate Joe Biden, he said that he was going to make Saudi Arabia a pariah.

[Elahe Izadi]

So then Biden does become president. Did he make Saudi Arabia a pariah? Did he ice them out?

[Michael Birnbaum]

There is some time, kind of the first year and a half of his time in office where relations remain very cold. And then Russia invades Ukraine in February 2022. So Biden had been in office about a year at that point. And that sense, global oil prices skyrocketing and there was a lot of inflation in the US at that point. It's a big political issue for Biden. So he finds that as much as he dislikes MBS's human rights record as much as he has said he's going to make Saudi Arabia a pariah, he still needs to deal with them or he feels he does at least. And in particular he needs their help to keep global energy prices low.

[Elahe Izadi]

So even he, who really didn't want to, at least he said he really didn't want to do this, couldn't help but reach out for help in the.

[Michael Birnbaum]

End, that's a choice that he made, and he felt as though the political consequences of rising energy prices were too difficult to not reach out to Saudi Arabia and have decent enough relations. So he ultimately goes to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. In mid-2022, he has this meeting with MBS. It's a pretty awkward one. There is indeed a fist bump because he doesn't want to shake the hand.

[Elahe Izadi]

Of someone, but a fist bump feels even more chummy.

[Michael Birnbaum]

There was a lot.

[Elahe Izadi]

It was a strange spectacle to say the least.

[Michael Birnbaum]

It was a strange spectacle and he kind of caught it from both sides for that encounter. But he also does start rebuilding a relationship with MbS, with the Saudi government, and tries to kind of of pull them into his effort to produce more oil and keep energy prices lower.

[Elahe Izadi]

After the break, why the US Keeps leaning on Saudi Arabia and what both sides are getting out of this arrangement. We'll be right back.

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[Elahe Izadi]

There it is.

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[Elahe Izadi]

So, Michael, we've just heard that there is this sort of reticence among US Leaders, at least recent presidents, to ice out Saudi Arabia. What is the US Getting out of a relationship with Saudi Arabia?

[Michael Birnbaum]

So this is something that has happened many times over the years. Saudi Arabia is many presidents. Yes. This is not the first conflict of values versus practicality. Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil. They have a lot of energy. They are a big economic power. And in a volatile region, they are a really big player. And so both in terms of energy prices and in terms of broader geopolitics, both Biden and Trump have gone back to the Saudis again and again because they are a kind of inescapable partner in the Middle east. And they seem to have determined that it's better to be on the Saudi side than working against them.

[Elahe Izadi]

Why is that? For let's say, Trump specifically, Saudi Arabia.

[Michael Birnbaum]

Is the biggest economic power in the Middle East. It's kind of the big prize in terms of enmeshing Israel in strong economic ties to its neighbors. That's a project that Trump started in his first term. The thought is if it has close economic ties to its neighbors, which it has slowly developed over years, but it will be in a much safer place and better place as a close US Ally than if it is kind of cut off in a lot of ways economically from other Arab countries in the neighborhood. And, you know, the fewer economic ties there are, the easier it is to wage war with each other. So that's why Trump has focused on Saudis as the big prize for normalizing with Israel.

[Elahe Izadi]

And what has Saudi Arabia gotten out of this relationship?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Well, the Saudis appreciate close relations with the United States. They get a lot of defense assistance. They get advanced military equipment. They get money and investment, a big buyer for their oil. But they too have interests in the Middle East. It's been a violent few years. There's been the Gaza war There's been instability and ultimately regime change in Syria. And they are perfectly capable of projecting their own power among their neighbors in the region. But the United States under really all presidents, has a big role to play and a kind of coordinating role between Israel and Arab neighboring nations. And so they appreciate working with the US on that as well.

[Elahe Izadi]

Yeah, like they have their Saudi Arabia have their own interests in the region with a number of countries. I'm thinking Yemen, Iran, the ones you mentioned. And so I would imagine that trying to end up in a situation where they're working lockstep with the US Government, in this case the Trump administration, it's beneficial for them insofar as advancing their own goals in the region.

[Michael Birnbaum]

That's right. The United States is Israel's closest partner. Israel is a big important military actor in the region. The United States has been involved in stabilizing Syria. It's kind of indispensable economic actor. It controls sanctions. It is trying to deal with Ukraine, which affects relations, of course, with Russia. And basically in all these big files where Saudi energy and economics and interests are at stake, the US Is there too. So they're interested in working together.

[Elahe Izadi]

I want to pick up on the money piece of it all because I'm also thinking about these two men in particular Trump and mbs, and what other ties do they just have beyond being the crown prince and the President of the United States?

[Michael Birnbaum]

So in some ways, MBS is involved in a family business that is highly profitable. President Trump comes from a family business that has certainly become highly profitable. And they have some affinities for each other based on that basic background. Since Trump's first term, his son in law, Jared Kushner, has gotten involved. He's taken on some Saudi investors in his business projects in a fairly big way. The Trump Organization, which is now led by Trump's two sons, has been doing some business projects with Saudi investors. And, you know, essentially the Saudi government continues to do that. So their own personal economic stakes and fortunes are increasingly entwined. Even just in the last few weeks, there have been announcements of Trump Organization projects in Saudi Arabia. And the Trump Org is, you know, planning a Trump branded property in Riyadh. That's the capital of Saudi Arabia. They're building a Trump Tower, Jeddah, which is this coastal city along the Red Sea. And Jared Kushner's private equity firm has gotten billions of dollars from foreign sources, including a very large investment from the government of Saudi Arabia.

[Elahe Izadi]

Earlier in this conversation, we touched on some of the deals that might be emerging from this visit from Mohammed bin Salman. What has been the reaction among lawmakers in Washington to some of these deals? Are they okay with it?

[Michael Birnbaum]

There is. I mean, there remains discomfort among some lawmakers about the ties that are building. There are some questions. You know, Trump has announced that the Saudis will be able to purchase advanced F35 fighter jets. That's something that only Israel right now in the region has access to. And there's a US Law that Israel needs to have a qualitative military advantage over its neighbors in terms of U.S. military aid. So there's some question about how does it maintain that advantage if the United States is also selling F35s to the Saudis. But I should also say that some of these deals are a little unclear and might be a little overstated. The speed at which Saudi Arabia would have access to some of these technologies, for example, the F35, that's something, you know, it's unlikely, even if they place some orders today, that they would have those jets within the next 10 years. That's a very long time frame.

[Elahe Izadi]

That's fascinating to me though, because even though the substance of some of these deals, the substance of these agreements is in question, we don't know like what the terms are, what the details are. Will this actually happen? The fact that they are being presented that this is a big win, I think it speaks to this idea of public image rehabilitation, rehabilitation and the complete welcoming back of MBS and absolving him essentially of facing any kind of consequences for what the US Intelligence community concluded that he ordered the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. And this is also making me think of. This isn't the only thing that MBS in Saudi Arabia is trying to do to build its image on the world stage. There are lots of other examples, right?

[Michael Birnbaum]

Yes. So mbs, you know, partly because he's a canny strategist and partly because he's a 40 year old man who's grown up in the.

[Elahe Izadi]

He's a millennial.

[Michael Birnbaum]

He's a millennial. That's right. He's a millennial crown prince. Saudi Arabia is also, you know, doing all these investments in things that are like pop culture, entertainment. They've started the Riyadh Comedy Festival. They've invested in the LIV Golf League.

[Elahe Izadi]

And these are drawing huge names, a lot of money.

[Michael Birnbaum]

These are big global names, US Golf players, global soccer stars. A lot of money is at stake here. A lot of people are getting paid a lot of money. He is investing in a bunch of things that bring Saudi Arabia out of this world in which it had been a very religiously and socially conservative nation, into open society where they are kind of buying into a pop culture that is more global and open, even while maintaining a fair amount of repression in various ways at home. It's still not a situation where they will tolerate criticism of the Saudi government or it's not really a political opening up, it's a cultural opening up.

[Elahe Izadi]

So, Michael, looking ahead, what will be the threads that you will be paying attention to on this story of what this relationship between the US And Saudi Arabia is going to be and how it develops?

[Michael Birnbaum]

So I'm very interested in the personal ties between President Trump and mbs. Trump's personal ties to world leaders all over feel really important to track these days because of the way he's operating on the world stage. He just loves direct phone calls with other leaders and hammering things out person to person. I'm following the Trump Organization's business ties in investments in Saudi Arabia and with Saudi authorities because I'd like to understand that element of the Trump relationship, given that he's personally profiting from a lot of these issues. And then geopolitically, we are in a very delicate phase of Gaza and the future of Palestinians and a Palestinian state. The Saudis have a fair amount of leverage on this. They are pushing the Israelis, they're pushing the Americans to push the Israelis to both keep the peace and fully end the war in Gaza and also eventually give a pathway to Palestinian statehood. Only then, they say, will they fully normalize relations with Israel. And so that's a big thing that I'm watching over the coming months and probably years.

[Elahe Izadi]

Thank you, Michael, so much.

[Michael Birnbaum]

Thank you, Eli.

[Elahe Izadi]

Michael Birnbaum is a White House correspondent for the Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. If you're looking for the latest updates on the big news of the day, check out our morning News briefing. THE Seven. We bring you the seven stories you need to know about every Weekday morning by 7am you can listen to it wherever you listen to podcasts. Today's show was produced by Rennie Sfornofsky with help from Emma Talkoff. It was mixed by Shawn Carter and edited by Ariel Plotnick. Thanks to Anna Aschenbrenner. I'm Elahe Izadi. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

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