Podcast Summary: Product Therapy

Episode: Coaching Feedback
Host: Christian Idiodi (SVPG)
Guest: Martina Luchenko (SVPG)
Date: August 29, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the often-overlooked craft of providing and receiving feedback in product teams. Christian Idiodi and guest Martina Luchenko explore why feedback is crucial to both individual and organizational growth, how to give and receive feedback effectively, and the frameworks and mindset shifts needed to build a feedback-rich, high-performing culture. The tone throughout is practical, candid, and full of actionable insights—aimed at helping product leaders and contributors foster healthier, more productive relationships at work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Value and Purpose of Feedback

• Continuous Improvement: Feedback is central to both product iteration and personal growth.
  • “The same way that product has evolved and we are much more agile and we iterate... The same is true for yourself and your career.” —Martina (01:03)
• Feedback Is a Gift—Seek Both Good and Bad:
  • Early career fears (“worried it would be negative”) often block growth. The “full spectrum” of feedback, both positive and critical, is necessary for meaningful improvement.
  • “We should be seeking more of it all the time.” —Martina (01:57)

Framework for Effective Feedback Conversations

• Contextualize the Conversation
  • Explicitly state the purpose and value of the relationship before addressing specifics.
  • Example scenario: “Christian, I really value our working relationship and I want to talk to you about the last meeting we just had that actually felt uncomfortable. Here’s my experience of it...” —Martina (03:13)
• Share Your Experience, Then Invite Theirs
  • Clearly describe your perspective and feelings, then ask for the other person’s side.
  • “...And this is the important thing that all of us miss, is ask for the other person's version of the story.” —Martina (03:57)
• Assume Positive Intent and Seek Alignment
  • Avoid ascribing negative motives; instead, invite mutual understanding:
    • “You were right. I should have thought more about the context of how that might land in your peers... Thank you so much for alerting me that that's how it came across.” —(paraphrased response, Martina’s example, 04:22)

Navigating Defensive Reactions & Power Dynamics

• Anticipate and Defuse Defensiveness
  • “If someone understands that, they know they’ll get a chance to narrate their experience... being defensive about the experience, because it is absolutely fair and valid for you to feel what you feel.” —Christian (06:16)
• When Frameworks Aren’t Present: Use “Lead with Agreement”
  • Acknowledge agreement before stating your differing point to de-escalate.
    • “I actually am agreeing with everything that you’re saying... The one point I’m just trying to make is this.” —Martina (09:09)

Tactical Phrases and Word Choice

• Use Curiosity to Soften Language
  • Game-changing prompts: “I’m curious if…” or “Have we considered…”
    • “It’s just saying, ‘have we considered?’ Which is just saying, like, maybe we have or maybe I wasn’t there.” —Martina (10:19)
• Avoid Diminishing Your Input
  • Avoid prefaces like “this is probably a stupid idea, but…”

Building a Culture of Feedback

• Model the Behavior You Want
  • Evangelizing good frameworks and sharing them with the team.
  • “If you become an evangelist from the framework, you’re just spreading the toolset, and it’s just going to make everyone’s workplace better.” —Martina (08:07)

The Role of Humility and Mindset Shift in Leadership

• Humility Over Judgment
  • “As I have grown as a leader... I judge less, I am much more humble, I am much more open. And all of these things have completely next leveled me as a leader.” —Martina (14:12)
• Focus on Progress, Not Being Right
  • Every person’s experience is valid; the leader’s job is to “move forward or progress”—not to adjudicate absolute truth. (13:44)

Feedback Upwards and with Senior Leaders

• Still Use The Same Framework
  • The same principles apply, but clarify intent to avoid appearing threatening, and explicitly frame feedback as striving for shared goals.
  • “I think the world of you... You know, I think you are a great leader... Let me tell you why I’m concerned and I’m curious how you are feeling.” —Martina, on speaking to a CEO (15:32)
• Recognize The Realities of Power Dynamics
  • Sometimes feedback will land poorly or be disregarded. “Sometimes we just have to deal with the suck.” (17:21)

Practicalities: Where and How to Give Feedback

• Private & In-Person is Best
  • “Hard feedback as much as possible privately, but in person... Email is the worst place on the planet for feedback.” —Martina (18:36)
• Written Feedback Can Be Misinterpreted
  • “All I saw in the email was criticism... For the whole weekend I was stewing over it.” (Martina shares personal story, 19:21)

Positive Feedback: Be Specific and Contextual

• Go Beyond “Good Job”
  • Give specific feedback linked to outcomes and effort.
    • “I saw how much extra time you spent on the strategy section and when you pointed out how competitor A was really making a difference... that was real evidence at how much you’ve advanced your thinking.” —Martina (20:49)
• Differentiate Recognition, Appreciation, and Real Feedback
  • “The example you gave... all I felt in that moment is, wow, you saw me. You understood what it took to create this. You recognized the work or the sweat or the energy...” —Christian (23:18)

The Manager’s Role and Mindset

• Managers Must Actively Observe and Coach
  • “If you are coaching someone... you are participant in their group, the biggest credit you get is not the products you build. But like, this person got promoted, they got better in their career...” —Christian (22:55)
• Actively Seek Teaching Moments
  • “You have to seek opportunities to give feedback. I kind of call it teaching moments... If you want to get better, you have to practice, and part of what comes out of practicing... is that somebody is giving you feedback.” —Christian (25:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Feedback is a gift, both good and bad, and we should be seeking more of it all the time."
  —Martina (01:57)

• "If you become an evangelist for the framework, you're just spreading the toolset... it's just going to make everyone's workplace better."
  —Martina (08:05)

• "The interviewer should be as working as hard as the interviewee during the interview... I think that applies to leaders as well."
  —Martina (24:05)

• "If you want to get better, you have to practice. And part of what comes out of practicing...is that somebody is giving you feedback about what is good, where your opportunities are, about what is not working well."
  —Christian (25:26)

• "Probably the best way to create a culture where there is good feedback is for you to give good feedback."
  —Christian (26:56)

• "You are not hired for your weakness. You are hired for your strengths. No company looks for your weakness to be like, 'this is why we want you.'"
  —Christian (25:25)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Importance and fear of feedback, learning from mistakes
  01:03 – 01:58
• Detailed feedback framework introduction
  03:13 – 05:55
• Handling defensiveness and tools to de-escalate
  06:16 – 10:31
• Tactical language: 'I'm curious if...' and 'Have we considered...'
  10:19 – 10:41
• Finding common ground, FBI example, egos and humility in feedback
  10:42 – 13:13
• On humility, progression, and mindset shift in leadership
  13:13 – 14:31
• Applying the framework upward – giving feedback to CEOs/power dynamics
  15:13 – 17:21
• Where and how to deliver feedback (private, in-person, not email)
  18:36 – 19:53
• How to give good positive feedback – specificity and context
  20:39 – 21:32
• Coaching mindset: managers as active observers and participants
  22:55 – 25:11
• Summary and closing philosophies
  26:52 – 27:33

Takeaways for Listeners

• Feedback is a continuous, two-way process vital to personal and organizational growth.
• Approach feedback with humility, curiosity, and clarity of intent—whether you’re a leader, peer, or individual contributor.
• Use specific frameworks: establish context, share your perspective, invite theirs, and seek mutual understanding.
• Shift your mindset from judgment to coaching and growth, for both giving and receiving feedback.
• Model good feedback yourself to influence team culture—lead by example.

This episode offers a rich arsenal of practical tools, relatable stories, and motivating philosophies for anyone seeking to improve their feedback skills and foster healthier, more effective workplaces.