Product Therapy: Coaching Product Marketing

Host: Christian Idiodi (SVPG)
Guest: Martina Luchenko (SVPG Partner, Author of "Loved")
Date: November 21, 2024

Episode Overview

In this episode, Christian Idiodi sits down with Martina Luchenko, regarded as the “godmother of product marketing,” to explore what makes product marketing a unique, essential discipline in successful product organizations. The discussion unpacks what product marketing is, how it differs from traditional marketing, where it fits in organizational structures, and the crucial partnership between product managers and marketers. Listeners gain practical advice, advanced insights, and notable real-world examples to elevate their understanding of how product marketing drives adoption, shapes stories, and connects great products to market success.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What is Product Marketing?

• Definition:
  • “The function [of product marketing] is driving product adoption by shaping market perception through strategic marketing activities that connect to business goals. It is this steel thread that unites the product that gets created with all that go-to-market machinery.” — Martina [01:51]
• Foundation for Success:
  • Product marketing bridges the gap between building a product and ensuring its success in the marketplace.
  • Ensures that sales and marketing are speaking to the right audience with the right story, enabling adoption and retention.

When Do You Need Product Marketing?

• Primary Indicator:
  • “The number one way to know that you need it is if your product is not being adopted in the market.” — Martina [03:38]
  • It's not about having the title but ensuring the work is done, especially if consumers don't understand or see the value.
• Early Involvement:
  • Product marketing should ideally be involved early to help shape the product, not just promote it after development.
  • “The harder thing is to get the market to adopt [new products].” — Martina [04:27]

Product Marketing vs. Traditional Marketing

• Distinct Approach:
  • Traditional marketing focuses on campaigns, promotion, and generating leads.
  • Product marketing is about creating the argument for why—crafting durable market positions and shaping perceptions.
  • “Product marketing is very intentional, very deliberate... It's not just done for brand awareness.” — Christian [13:12]
  • “Product marketing work is creating a market position that is durable... Whereas the things that the marketing team works on are like... social. That's something you, you gotta tend to that every single day.” — Martina [14:01]

Organizational Placement & Ownership

• Where Does Product Marketing Sit?
  • Usually in marketing, but sometimes closer to product, particularly where deep integration is needed.
  • Embedding product marketers within product teams can ensure alignment.
  • “Most of the time, it's a marketing function... but they have to know what this engine is.” — Martina [07:55]
• Pitfall:
  • Avoid reducing product marketing to just creating collateral or checking boxes; it’s about prioritizing messaging that “moves the market.” [07:55-09:41]

Shaping the Market: Lessons from Microsoft & AI

• Real-World Example:
  • Microsoft’s shift in AI leadership perception:
    • Leveraged strategic product launches (e.g., Bing & ChatGPT beta to influencers).
    • The CEO actively shaped the narrative—“I want to make Google dance and I want them to know it was us that made them dance.” — Satya Nadella, recounted by Martina [11:21]
    • Result: Changed industry perception and business positioning, even if user behaviors didn’t shift overnight. [10:28-13:12]
  • Key Insight:
    • “They shaped the market's perception... This is the power of it. They shaped the market's perception. They had the product, you have to have the product. But if you also shape market perception, it doesn't matter what Google does now.” — Martina [12:08]

Collaboration: Product Managers & Product Marketers

• Healthy Relationship:
  • Mutual dependency and value:
    • Both feel more effective because of regular, meaningful collaboration.
  • Product marketing brings market intelligence and competitive insight to product teams.
  • Product managers inform product marketers with the latest about what’s being built, fueling better external messaging and analyst conversations.
  • “The biggest indicator that it's working well is both feel like they are better at their job because of the collaboration with the other.” — Martina [15:10]
• Practices:
  • Joint participation can range from regular standups to as-needed strategic meetings, depending on company size and structure.
  • Embedding, not just sitting in on meetings, is essential for market-first perspective in decision making. [17:14-18:57]

What if You Don’t Have Dedicated Product Marketing?

• Early Stage Teams:
  • Founders, engineers, and whoever is closest to the customer often pick up the slack.
  • “It is not an excuse. The work must be done and you just have to do it. You have to. You learn how to flex a new muscle.” — Martina [20:28]
• Mature Companies:
  • The case for growing product marketing headcount is strongest when product-driven business growth is a priority.
  • Merely hiring more salespeople isn’t enough—sales enablement and product marketing infrastructure are essential for new growth. [21:15-23:23]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If your product is not being adopted in the market. You haven't done the product marketing work that would let it be understood.” — Martina [03:44]
• “The product's value gets defined through a use case. Oh, now I understand.” — Martina [05:43]
• “The job is actually to be selective about what's most important to say so that sales can be successful selling it, so that the newest, most important stuff is elevated above the entire feature list.” — Martina [08:44]
• “Product marketing is about creating the argument for why into which the product is valued.” — Martina [14:01]
• “You are not good at your job without the other. And it feels like a dialogue, and not like a sweep and poop.” — Martina [16:53]
• “Whoever is closest to the customer—you just have to pick up this work, regardless of your job title.” — Paraphrased from Martina [19:09-20:28]
• “If you're making an investment in product as a way to growth, that bridge doesn't happen by itself because the marketing teams and the sales teams simply don't have the skill to metabolize everything that's coming out and why it is meaningful for the market.” — Martina [22:01]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:51] — What is product marketing?
• [03:38] — How to know you need product marketing
• [05:43] — Use cases define product value
• [07:55] — Where product marketing sits in an organization
• [10:28] — Microsoft’s AI market strategy as brilliant product marketing
• [14:01] — The difference between product marketing and traditional marketing
• [15:10] — What makes product manager/product marketer collaboration work
• [17:30] — Practical ways to embed product marketing in teams
• [19:09] — Who does the work if no dedicated product marketers?
• [21:15] — How to argue for greater investment in product marketing

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a masterclass in the art and science of product marketing. Listeners will come away with a clear, actionable understanding of what great product marketing entails, how it differs from traditional marketing, and why it is critical for product success at any stage. The emphasis on deep cross-functional collaboration and intentional market shaping gives leaders, founders, and practitioners concrete guidance for building more effective, enduring product marketing practices.