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Prophecy Watchers
The Dangerous Rise of Replacement Theology | Brad Reaves and Mike Spaulding
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- [00:01]
A
What is replacement theology and why is it becoming so popular and widely taught in churches today and what should we do about it? Many of you know this is a very dangerous and unbiblical view of Israel and the church and our relationship with Israel. But nothing seems to be done about it. So why today in 2026 is a church struggling with understanding our relationship with Israel? Now, before I bring on our guest, Dr. Mike Spalding, I want to encourage you to get this book written by our guest, Dr. Mike Spalding. Replacement Theology. Dr. Mike Spalding is pastor at Calvary Chapel, Lima, Ohio. He's been there for 21 years. He is a prolific teacher, great teacher on the Bible and he has a firm grip on what the Bible says and how it relates to us today. So with that, let's bring on Dr. Mike Spalding. Well, Mike Spalding, so good to see you. Welcome to the show.
- [01:11]
B
Brad. Thank you so very much for having me on. It's always a blessing to talk to like minded brothers and especially on a topic that we're going to cover today.
- [01:22]
A
And it's probably one of the most important topics the church is facing right now. As I said in the introduction, I want every pastor to get ahold of this book. Every teacher, every elder to get ahold of this book. Every believer to get ahold of this book and read it. It's incredibly well done, Mike. And we're going to get into that a minute. Why don't I give you an opportunity to introduce yourself and what's happening with Mike Spalding and Calvary Chapel of Lima, Ohio.
- [01:55]
B
Yes. Well, again, thank you, Brad. I very much appreciate your kind words about the book. And so I've been a Calvary chapel Pastor almost 30 years. I'm 29. And so it's been a tremendous blessing. The Lord has allowed Kathy and I to participate in two different church plants, Calvary Chapel churches. And it has been a tremendous blessing. We've been here in Lyman now for over 21 years. The Lord has been blessing this, this fellowship here and, and we're just growing, spiritually speaking. I, I'm not a nickels and noses guy, so I don't, I don't get too concerned about, about the numbers. But we, we have seen some, some physical growth and I attribute that, Brad and I know that this will resonate with you. I attribute that to just teaching the scriptures. If you'll just teach the scriptures and be faithful to the biblical storyline and just work your way through the scriptures, the Lord will, because he promised the Lord will build the Church, you don't have to worry about gimmicks and all of these kinds of things. So that's, that's a little bit about the ministry. And my wife Kathy and I, we've been married for over 43 years. We have four grown daughters, seven, soon to be eight grandchildren. One will is going to be welcomed in September. Three great grandbabies already. So we're, we're so very blessed in this season of life. And the Lord has provided for me to write now as well as teaching and pastoring, and this book on replacement theology is the latest effort.
- [03:53]
A
Well, you're a blessed man in many, many ways. I am, and so glad to have made a connection with you. This work, as I said just a few minutes ago, is probably one of the prevailing and most significant issues that the church is facing. What led you to, to write this and how long you've been working on it? Tell us a little bit about the background of this book.
- [04:17]
B
Yeah, so October 7th, 2023 was the trigger. I have, I have been a supporter of the nation of Israel and the Jewish people for my, my Christian life, which is again, it goes back, was born again 43 years ago. And the Lord placed me, and I praise him for it, in fellowships very early on that loved the Jewish people that understood the nation of Israel and the Bible storyline and what was coming and going to happen to Israel eventually. I'm talking about to those who have joined us, eschatology, end times, future events, what's coming. And Israel is prominent. And so from that I have had a love for Israel and the Jewish people. And so when October 23rd, October 7th of 23 hit, I thought this and I was blessed for a short time, Brad, because support globally seemed to be sympathy and compassion toward the Jewish people for this atrocity. Well, it didn't, didn't last very long, two, three weeks at the most. And man, it turned on a dime. Once all of the globalists and the Islamic money began to pour into our college campuses. We saw a lot of disruptions on the campuses, a lot of protests, violent protests, by the way, defending what cannot be defended in any moral or ethical sense. And that just, it convinced me that something needs to be said about the root of what we're seeing, and the root of that is replacement theology. And so I lay the guilt and the shame and the blame for what we're seeing today squarely at the feet of Christians who hold this view. And I know some people may think that's harsh, but. Brad. But it is not. Because if the. If the church unilaterally supported the Jewish people, as the Bible calls us to, we wouldn't see this. We wouldn't see what we're seeing today. October 7, 2023 would have never happened if the church would have been positioned properly on the world stage to have the influence. When we talk about the church having a moral influence, it has utterly failed to a large degree on this subject because they have fomented and fueled what we see happening to the Jewish people in the nation of Israel. That's my view.
- [07:12]
A
You hit it right off the bat with your book, right before you even get to the first chapter. You conclude your introduction with a quote from John Patrick on X. And I think you could practically stop there and just say, case settled, right? Because we're looking at. The idea is that Israel is no more. I think in a lot of people's minds. And you've heard the argument. I've heard the argument that the Jews today are not the Jews of the Bible, which is a lie. But you remind people with this quote from X. Israel was Israel when the Jews were banned from Jerusalem by Hadrian in 131. Israel was Israel when the main population moved north to Galilee. Israel was Israel when the Sanhedrin was established in Tiberias. And you go on and on and on all throughout history. What's the lie behind. Where does this lie come from that says that the Jews today are not the Jews of the Bible?
- [08:17]
B
So behind all of it, of course, is a supernatural entity, Hasatan, the devil, however you want to define or describe or what word you want to use for this malevolent entity that hates the Jewish people. That's what's behind it ultimately. Now, through history, we've seen these. Some of those you just, you just shared with us. It goes all the way back when you can go into Genesis, you can talk about the Genesis 10, the Table of nations and the listings and all of that, and 11, how, how God assigned the nations to these. This may shock some, some people, Brad, because they're not used to a supernatural view of the scriptures. But God disinherited the nations. That's the Deuteronomy 32, verse 8, worldview that God disinherited the nations and he raised up a people for himself. He did that through Abraham. And that's Genesis 11 and 12, the calling of Abraham, the patriarch of the Jewish people. But there's always been a visceral hatred of the Jewish people that has been demonic, supernaturally demonic fueled. And history shows that down through the ages, it's always been aimed at the Jewish people. So in order now today, with, with media, social media 24, 7, 365 and an instant news, it's become very easy to create this narrative, this mythology that the Jewish people of today that are in Israel, not really the biblical Jews, as you mentioned, I've heard that ad nauseam. And it is just ridiculous on the face of it that they're not. And some people will even go the extra link, well, you know, DNA testing and you've got the, well, the Ashkenazis, they're the Sephardi and they throw all this information at people and, and if, if you're not willing to stop, evaluate what they're saying and then do some cursory research yourself, then you're going to believe that lie. Well, a lot of folks have taken that challenge and they've demonstrated, I've got a chapter in the book on that particular subject, that the Jews of Israel today are not the biblical Jews. And that's nonsense. Now, I typically what I'll do if somebody asks me that if I want to just condense it all down into one concise statement slash question to motivate or encourage someone to do some research on their own. And when I say research folks, I'm also talking about primarily praying, reading the scripture and then asking the Father to show you the reality of this situation. So what I typically do to condense all that down, Brad, is say can you show me in the Scriptures where it says that God was fooled and did not see that the Jews of our own day would not be true Jews? And can you show me in the Scriptures where God is going to displace all these false Jews with true Jews? Can you show me where it says that you can't? And. And some people will respond to that, Brandon. Well, that's just ridiculous. I said it is not as ridiculous as what your claim is, that the Jews in the land today are not biblical Jews. I mean, it's just utter nonsense, Brad, is what it is.
- [12:13]
A
Do you still believe this is a spiritual battle happening?
- [12:16]
B
Oh, very, very much so. Christians are fond. Well, some Christians are fond. There is a segment that disregard spiritual warfare. They don't see it life in that light. But yes, all of life. Many Christians would agree with us, Brad, that all of life as a believer is spiritual warfare. And we need to understand that that's the context in which we are living and ministering. And in these days, as we're approaching the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, if we understand the biblical timeline and the events that are associated leading up to his return. It's crystal clear why we're seeing this global outrage against the Jewish people, against the nation of Israel. It makes perfect sense why we see global bodies like the United nations rail against Israel. It defies logic. It is illogical. It has to have an origin, and that origin is supernatural and it's evil.
- [13:25]
A
You write in your first chapter regarding Israel's connection to the gospel, and you say the Great Commission is not only about evangelism, it's primarily about preparing the nations for the realization of God's plan for his creation. His plan includes restoration of the nation of Israel as well as the nations. Can you tell us more about that? And why is that significant to understanding replacement theology and our relationship with Israel?
- [13:58]
B
Yeah, that is a great, great question, Brad. And I want to give a hat tip to Samuel Whitfield and his work on Israel. Fantastic. He's done a series of books talking about this, how the Great Commission, what we would call the proclaiming the Gospel to the nations, is actually a picture of God's ministry and his work and his compassion and love for his people. I'm pausing here because I. I want to just decide how far down this road I should go because the Lord gave me something a couple of days ago to, to really flesh out. And, and I don't know if it's going to be a chapter, two chapters, a book, an article, I have no idea. But it's this idea of, of the power of the present tense. The power of the present tense. This, this relates to. And I'll. I'll come back and answer your question, Brad, but I got to get this out because this is. This is good stuff. The Power of the Present Tense. That's, that's the title that. It rolling around in my mind. And that has to do with what Paul wrote In, in Romans 9:11, and, and what he said about his brethren, that they are blessed, that they are the. They are in possession of these promises and these covenants, and so on and so forth. And he works. That's the power of the present tense that has not gone away. And Paul's writing this, folks, 50s, mid to late 50s, after the church is, is. Is already established. And he's still referring to the Jewish people in the nation of Israel, present tense, as possessing these things. And, and in that context, later in Romans 11:29. I think these things are irrevocable. They're irrevocable. So that should alert us to a few things. So back to the gospel and the picture that we see in the gospel. And I'm just going to share what I wrote there because this is powerful and I don't want to leave anything out. So this is what I wrote. God created the universe. And out of all the creatures he created, God chose man. To man, God gave knowledge of himself and an assignment to spread knowledge of him to all creation. Likewise, when God created the nations, he chose one nation, not even in existence at the time, to bear his name to the nations. And of course, that nation was Israel. God did not choose man based on man's qualifications, man's merit or ability to flawlessly carry out God's plans. God chose man because he desired to do so. Similarly, God chose Israel not on anything Israel could do. They were the least of all the nations. It says God chose Israel to be the recipients of his love because he desired to do so. God gave man a high calling in a land, Eden, in which he was to be a priest and rule over the land for God's glory. Man sinned and was driven from the presence of God in Eden. Israel was called to be a kingdom of priests and a light to the nations concerning God. God gave Israel land to dwell in and to utilize as the launch site for proclaiming him to the nations. Israel sinned and was judged and driven from her land. So. So that's the thought pattern as you examine the gospel and everything contained in the gospel. It's a picture of Israel. Now, what that tells me that goes back, and this is why I mentioned Romans 11. That goes back to Paul's assertion that God is faithful and he will fulfill the promises that he made to them. That is, that perfectly lines up with the gospel. The gospel is a picture of the nation of Israel and God will bring his promises to them to fruition. And so when we understand it that way, that should automatically create within us a love for Jewish people, a love for ministering to the Jewish people. They were, are and will always be his chosen people. And there is a place for them, a national future restoration of the nation. Now we can point to Zechariah, chapter 12, Zechariah, chapter 14, when those occur, Christ's return. All of those scripture passages that support this understanding, folks. But we simply have to, when we talk about getting the gospel right, this is part and parcel of getting the gospel right. Understanding that it is a picture of the nation of Israel.
- [19:06]
A
You've been to Israel? I'm sure I've been there before. It's an incredible land and I think it's Chapter two. You talk about just the remarkability of the people and the land there. And you point out Israel is small, it shouldn't be strong, but it is. And you go on to list some of the limitations of Israel. There's no real natural resources like oil or so on. The population is small, it's hated by every nation around, including the United nations, but it's still, it's strong. And then you point out so much about Israel that's remarkable. They turn desert into farmland, they make water from air, they intercept rockets from there. It's amazing. Have you ever been there when the Iron Dome is at work? It's an amazing sight to watch. They rescue hostages in conditions and circumstances that even our best soldiers are marveled at. They survive wars that they should have been wiped out with. The world watches this and can't make sense of it. And you go on and on talking about just how Israel survives against all odds. This is a blessing of God, isn't? I mean, looking at this, you can't arrive at any other conclusion other than these people. And this nation is blessed by the God of the Bible.
- [20:37]
B
Yes. Amen, Brad. And so while I'm listening to you go, go through these, Matthew 12 just popped into my mind where the, the religious leaders were accusing Jesus of doing what he did by the power of Beelzebul. And, and that's, that's the, the kingdom of darkness passage where, where, where Jesus said, you know, a kingdom divided and against itself can't stand. That's what's happening when God presents all of this, his work through his people, even to this day, bringing all of this into fruition in the land and protecting them. People look at that and say, no, they're all Luciferians, they're all Satanists. They're only surviving because the devil is protecting them. And it's like folks, especially Christians, you should be embarrassed and ashamed of those kinds of comments. And I can't believe that believers are making them and the Holy Spirit is not slapping them and saying, you better stop this nonsense, because that's what it is. It's absolute nonsense. And it's just really being a mouthpiece of the enemy of our souls. I pray in these days a lot, Brad, that the Holy Spirit would ratchet up his voice to these folks that, and help them to understand. Because, and I'm not suggesting that it's a matter of salvation. Salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone. I fully support that. But I do believe that wicked and evil behavior can result in a loss of rewards in the Kingdom. And I do believe that they can also result in a loss of assignments in the Kingdom, that you can lose the privilege for your behavior today and especially as it relates to the Jewish people in the nation of Israel. That doesn't mean that you can't criticize their decisions. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that believers, Christians should approach Israel and the Jewish people from a biblical perspective. Always keeping to the forefront of your thinking. God's got a future national restoration for them. That's what the scriptures say. And this, this takes us and I apologize, Brad, if I'm just rambling, but there's so much behind this that needs to be brought to the forefront for people to understand. This is why you and, and others and, and, and our people we know, and people we don't know that that focus on the prophetic scriptures, that they understand the importance of the prophetic scriptures. And I think part of the reason why some people are lost in their, in the blind toward Israel and the Jewish people is because they've already disregarded the prophetic scriptures. They think everything was already fulfilled in, of any consequence in 70 A.D. and so there's nothing. We're now marching victoriously and conquering and, and moving toward a bright and happy future so that Christ can return. Folks, we ought to see that that is, it is irrational. It is not biblical. You don't see that in the Scriptures. We have a future coming, but it's the return of our king to set everything straight. And that includes the national restoration of the people of Israel to a place of prominence, I might add, among the nations.
- [24:16]
A
The scriptures refer to the church or refer to us of the church as the pillar and pill buttress of truth. And when we abandon this foundational truth, we begin to erode other things that are significant to the gospel and the Scriptures and what we're entrusted to. I know a lot of Jewish people who tell me they are resistant to the Gospel and resistant to Christianity because of our history of antisemitism, of the replacement theology. And you write in chapter three, the history of Christianity is littered with antisemitism, an unavoidable reality that to this day strains Christian Jewish dialogue. I think that goes back to the gospel question that we were talking about earlier. But can you talk into this a little more about the strain that is existing between the Christian Jewish relationship?
- [25:16]
B
Yeah, it goes all the way back. Most scholars pinpoint Justin Martyr as the first prominent Christian apologist who began to disregard, and I think it was in his Letter to Trypho that was the document, I think that his memory recalls that Justin Martyr became what we would call today an anti Semite. And he began to say, and here's another term and NT Wright is fond of using this. People that adhere to supersessionism, which is the technical term for replacement theology, they don't like replacement theology. They prefer fulfillment theology because that gets away from the, the harsh replacement that knows fulfilled. But that carries an implication. It simply isn't true. For in order for something to be fulfilled it has to be that that was what was intended. And replacement theology, whether you call it fulfillment or as, as Wright is fond of calling it, transfer, transfer theology, it's not biblical. It just simply is not shown in the Scriptures. Extra biblical Christians of prominence starting with Martyr. But, but we could also point at Ignatius and Irenaeus and Tertullian and Origen. It really became codified and embedded in the church through Augustine. Some people pronounce it Augustine. And he was to this day is noted as the theologian of the Roman Catholic ch. But he also remains the theologian of the Reformed Protestant branch of the Church. And so that just built over the centuries, Martin Luther was probably the worst of them all. And I know he did some great things. But he was also one of the most virulent anti Semites to the degree that he advocated for putting them in ghettos, burning down their homes, seizing their property, pretty much just making them chattel slaves. And it was Martin Luther whom Hitler quoted and referenced as a, as a foundation for the Nazi Final Solution, quote unquote to the Jewish people. The ghettos, those were advocated long centuries before Hitler came on the scene. So the Church is responsible for this. Brad. A segment of the Church is responsible for what we're seeing today. They have clung to and they've doubled down. Today they've doubled down on their hatred toward the Jewish people in the nation of Israel. I've said this too many times to count and I'll repeat it now. If your theology leads you to hating any people, whether it's the Jewish people, whether it's Muslims, if your theology leads you to hatred, you need to change your theology because that's not the God that we serve. We should be attempting at least to reach anyone and everyone with the true gospel message of the love of the Father demonstrated through Christ. He is the only one by which men may be saved. We can't just disregard a whole people group because our theology says or leads us in that direction. Change your theology.
- [29:18]
A
Amen. You mentioned Muslims. Just A minute ago. And in your book you address Islam and we're watching the rise and the tide of Islam shifting through Europe and now is coming into the United States. I view Islam, not Muslims, but Islam as an existential threat to the Western culture. What role is replacement theology playing in that?
- [29:47]
B
Yeah, Islam is a direct threat. And I appreciate and agree with the distinction that you made. And there are many Muslims here in America that love America and they are enjoying life here. They're good neighbors, they're good citizens. It's the ones that, and I don't want to misdirect here by saying, well, they're just radicalized. It's the ones that actually take the Quran at face value and try to live out its dictates. That is a threat to America because Islam is wholly incompatible with a republican form of government, completely incompatible with that Sharia law. And we could go into all of that, but Islamic eschatology especially, and this is what we're seeing right now. And, and this is one reason among many that I think trying to make a peace treaty with Iran, with the mullahs and the, the Islamic regime that controls Iran is a fool's errand. Because they're not interested in that. They're just not interested in that because their eschatology is driving them. Right. They think if they create enough chaos, the, the Mahdi will return. Their 12th Iman, which is in Christian theology is the Antichrist. But they think he'll come back and he'll set everything straight. So they're not interested in that. And their sworn enemies, it is their doctrine to destroy, completely eradicate Israel and every Jewish person on the face of the earth. That is what they're teaching their children. That is why we, we see constant problems in the Middle East. It is in Israel, it's Islamic jihadism that drives them to do this. So that's why a two state solution will never work, Brad. It'll never work. In fact, when people say, well, why don't you give it a try? I say, well, they already did.
- [32:04]
A
Yes, 100%. Yeah. So this is. Do you think that replacement theology is fueling in a way the Islamic movement we're witnessing today? Is that part of it?
- [32:21]
B
I think it adds fuel to the fire, if we could say that. And so Christ at the crossroads. There are Christians who are. They have rejected the Jewish people and the nation of Israel and instead they have taken on a form and propagate a form of Christian Palestinianism. They see the Jewish people as colonizers. Now that is a Leap of irrationality that it's hard for me to grasp breath given that history is, history is out there. I mean the information is there for anybody that wants to see it as, as you know, Islam sprang up through, through Muhammad in, in the 600s. I mean how Judaism goes back thousands of years before that they were in the land. How in the world are you anyway? So yes it does because gives cover. It gives cover to the atrocities of the Islamists. It gives cover in Europe's done, in my opinion, they've been conquered. But it gives cover replacement theology and those that subscribe to that reject it. It gives cover in America for the media to be anti Israel. Well, the church right here, these folks and they always quote the Gary Burges. They always, well, they used to quote Lynn Hybels, Bill's, Bill's wife. She was up to her eyebrows in this anti Israelism. And so they always quote those sources who are, who are anti Jewish, anti Israel. And they, and they just happen to be adherents of replacement theology. So yes, it does. It fuels, motivates it. It gives encouragement to the Islamists to keep doing what they're doing because hey, we got the press in our pocket in America, so everything's good. Yeah, it's just simply plainly biblically in error.
- [34:37]
A
I agree. We've touched on the Reformed theology and I want to go back to that for just a minute. On page 155 you write, you quote a statement from no theological seminary, a Reformed Covenant theology institution, and they identify two propositions that they oppose. First, they claim that some evangelicals, especially in their opinion dispensationalists, which I adhere to, believe that Jewish people are saved merely by being Jewish. And you identify it immediately as a straw man argument. And I completely agree. The second objection this open letter addresses is their belief that the land of Israel holds no specific importance and does not belong to the Jewish people. That point is refuted repeatedly in your book. What do you say, what do you say to the, the adherence of the Reformed covenant theology that are upholding this type of idea?
- [35:44]
B
Yeah, so my, my response is that you have to see the scriptures. We, you and I and, and folks in our camp approach the scriptures in a consistent literal, grammatical, historical, contextual, hermeneutical principle. And so we allow the Scriptures to say what they say. Part of the issue with replacement theology is its foundation. It's, it's hermeneutic is not that it's not literal, grammatical, historical, contextual. It is fraught with typology. It is fraught with, when I say supersessionism involving the text. So they see that the New Testament is superior to the Old Testament, that anything the Old Testament says or our understanding of what the Old Testament says must be filtered through the New Testament. The New Testament has the final say on the Old. And so what that does is in effect, it creates a canon within a canon. The New Testament becomes the superior covenant to the Old, and it becomes the interpretive lens through which the Old is understood. And so it's very easy then for them to deny the plain teaching of the Old Testament concerning Israel and the promises that God has made to his people. Now, that's complicated or compounded by the belief replacement theology believes that Israel was the church in the Old Testament. In fact, I heard a Reformed pastor, saw a clip of him and he made this statement. And I was flabbergasted. And I'm rarely at a loss for words, Brad. But when he said this, I was. He said he was telling his congregation, every time you see Israel in the Bible, Old Testament, New Testament, every time you see Israel, scratch that out and write in church. I was at a loss for words there. I'll say this. That is a shepherd who's going to have to answer for that grievous, grievous error of trying to airbrush out what God has stated plainly and repeatedly and what the New Testament affirms. And it all goes back. And I've got a chapter in the book on this, Brad. It all goes back to the importance and the power and the legitimacy of the words that God has spoken through his covenant oaths. His covenant oaths. And the Abrahamic covenant contains within it that land promise. And when the Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled, the church hasn't taken over the Abrahamic covenant. They've been grafted into it. We're the wild branches have been grafted in. But that doesn't mean that the Abrahamic covenant, the New Covenant, is no longer valid or those promises no longer to the nation of Israel and the Jewish people. God will fulfill those in his time. And we know what that timeline is. When he returns at the Second Coming, the Jewish people, the nation, they will look on him. Paul says in 1123, Romans 11:26, Rather, all Israel will be saved. What's the context and the timing of that? Well, that's Zechariah 14, 12, 14. When Christ returns, they'll look on him whom they've pierced, they'll mourn. That's the receiving by faith of Christ as their Messiah. Well, that in Turn. It's like a series of dominoes. When the Jewish people receive the king of God's choosing, which is the Lord Jesus Christ, that fulfills the Mosaic covenant. I think it's Deuteronomy 17:15 that says, you will receive the king of my choosing. And that has a direct relation. David wrote in Psalm chapter 2 about this king of God's choosing, his anointed Son. Well, that satisfies and completes the Mosaic covenant, which in turn, like a domino, that completes the Abrahamic covenant, which leads into the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, which completes the Davidic covenant. So all of these things are tied together in the Scriptures. And when you ignore those things and when you try to replace Israel in that, you have committed a grievous error. And I don't think the Father's going to let that slide. At some point you're going to be responsible for the words that you speak in us. But when we know that's true. Paul told Timothy that, listen, you be very careful about the words that come out of your mouth because you're going to be held accountable to a higher standard. We got a lot of ministry leaders, Bible teachers, pastors. They're going to be shocked when the reality of that comes to pass.
- [41:07]
A
And there's nothing in dispensational theology that talks about Israel being saved just because they're Jewish. That's a fallacy, right?
- [41:16]
B
That is a straw man argument that's held up as something that they can argue against. And it's really, it's disingenuous. It's something that a Christian and especially scholars. Come on, you know that that's not part of dispensationalism. You just, is it book sales? I mean, why are you doing, you know, that's not right. That's not what we teach. Salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone.
- [41:44]
A
Amen. Always Amen. So what's next for Israel? What are we going to see? If we could roll back the curtain a little bit, looking into the future, what's going to happen with Israel and, and then we'll get into what the church should be doing. So let's, let's talk about what we're seeing in the future for Israel.
- [42:03]
B
Yeah. Well, the prophetic books. Again, if, if you disregard and reject the prophetic books, then, then you're not understanding this and you, and you become a self fulfilling prophecy. In fact, Peter, Peter talked about in the last days that there'll be scoffers and mockers that'll rise up and I Think it's these folks, they're at least a type of fulfillment of this, talking of disregarding Israel or any prophetic eschatological significance. But the book of Ezekiel talks about this, the book of Daniel talks about this, what's happening in Israel. And I was a little bit amused when everybody started talking about, oh, we're in Ezekiel 30, 38 and 39, and yes, this is coming. And then, and then we start bombing Iran. And everybody said, oh, well, wait a minute, wait a minute. Iran's got to be there the last. You know, they're, they're listed here. And now we're going. That seems to have stopped. And now peace treaty and now, okay, they're going to be sustain. It's like, listen, folks, just tap the brakes already. We're not living in those days. Now we can look at these events and say, hmm, this is going to be similar to what it's going to be like in the Ezekiel Agog Magog wars and these nations in this coalition. But we know what's going to happen there. God's going to destroy them all. He's going to destroy them all, folks. Now, my particular viewpoint is if the Lord allows it, we'll be viewing that from eternity because we're not on the face of the earth at that time is my particular theology. So Israel is going to continue to be attacked, is going to continue to be the subject, excuse me, of global hatred and evil by organizations and governing bodies and nations. That's not going to stop, folks. Nothing's going to change on that front. But God is going to show up and defend his people. And so we should understand that that's the biblical storyline. That's where all of this is going. But again, replacement theology adherence, they've rejected all of those scriptures, so they've got no anchor to what is going on today. They have no place of perspective because they've rejected all of those scriptures already.
- [44:47]
A
So let's close with this. To borrow the words of the late Chuck Smith, so what?
- [44:56]
B
Well, thank you for that reference to Pastor Chuck. I always appreciate that when people bring up something that, that he said. So. So what? Well, the. The so what? The answer to the so what is that we should still be about our Father's business. And that is sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ that is telling everybody that we meet that there is a way to be reconciled with your Creator. And in the days that we live in, there are so many opportunities, Brad, to share Christ with people much, much more, many more than when I was, was a Younger man. And the reason for that is the world's growing darker. World's growing darker. So we should take this opportunity as believers. Now, that includes folks, that includes Jewish people. Now, I know that you have done this. We have done this. Here in Lima. Our mutual friend Olivier has an effort, I'll call it an effort. He has a ministry opportunity that he encourages folks who have a love for the Jewish people in the nation of Israel to reach out to their local synagogue, to reach out to the local rabbi and to have conversations with them and offer your support. First of all for. Because there are neighbors, let them know, listen, I know what you're hearing. I know in part what you're feeling. But I want you to know that we stand with you. We stand with you because you are our neighbors. Then if you have that opportunity, ask them if they would be willing to allow you to serve them. And if they ask in what capacity, well, would you be open to our church, our church security team providing that same service for you at no obligation, no cost, no charge, no obligation. We would be happy to ensure that your gatherings are peaceful and uninterrupted. That'll make a big inroad, folks. That's a huge door that opens up for further conversation and dialogue and just letting them know, reverse the trend. We talked about this earlier, Brad. Centuries of the church hating, demonizing and even acting violently toward Jewish people can be reversed in our own day. If Christians will step up and say, listen, I love you, you're my neighbor, I want to help. If there's anything that I can do to serve you, I will do that. So that's the what if, what now, so what? That's part of what we should be doing. And then I would encourage you, if you're a pastor, ministry leader, Bible teacher, if you have the ear of a group of people, I would encourage you to begin talking about what's going on. I know so many churches won't touch politics with a ten foot pole. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you take the events that are happening in our day and you talk to people about what the Bible has to say about this. Why are we seeing these things today? Well, let's talk about that. Engage people, give them, equip them to have information because they all have workplaces, they all have their own families and groups of people that they associate with. Give them some information that they can disseminate to those groups, but give it to them from a biblical perspective. Because, listen, friends, I can tell you this folks are going to get their answers from someplace for all these things that are happening. Don't you want them to get their answers from you in a biblical perspective, to equip them to share with others? You never know what might come out of that, Brad. So we got a lot of work to do. But it's exciting work, isn't it?
- [49:14]
A
It is. And first Peter 3:15 tells us to always have an answer for the hope that is within us through Christ Jesus. And what a great time to do it, folks. The book is by Dr. Mike Spalding, Replacement Theology. Pick yourself up a copy and, and share it with someone else. You know, maybe if you go to church somewhere and get one for your pastor, get one for your deacons and share this, because this is probably, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, one of the most important and significant issues that we are dealing with today among all the other things that are going on in the world around us. And Mike, I'm so glad you wrote this. Where can people pick up a copy of and how can people find you to find out more information?
- [50:04]
B
Yes, well, thank you again, Brad. I really appreciate you and your ministry and, and our friendship, our growing friendship. And so Dr. Mike Spalding is the website. Dr. Mike Spalding.com is the website. Books are available wherever you can buy books if you want a signed copy. I laugh when I say that because it's like, why would anybody want to sign a copy? But if you want to sign, because people ask, well, where can I get a signed copy? Just, just contact me through my website, drmikespawning.com contact me and I'll. I'll send you the details for acquiring a signed copy of the book. Calvary Chapel of Lima. We meet on Sundays, 10:30am Wednesdays at 7:00pm we are studying through the Book of Acts on Sunday and the Thessalonian Letters on Wednesday. And, and we're out there on social media, rumble, YouTube, my family on Facebook, substack. I mean, you name it, I'm out there. Find me and we can connect and have conversation.
- [51:16]
A
I encourage people to do just that. Dr. Mike Spalding, thank you so much for coming on today and we'll look forward to having you back on soon.
- [51:24]
B
Thank you, Brad, very much. It was a blast.
- [51:27]
A
God bless.
- [51:28]
B
God bless.