Holy Fire in Jerusalem | Miracle or Evidence? | L.A. Marzulli

Summary

Prophecy Watchers: "Holy Fire in Jerusalem | Miracle or Evidence?" with L.A. Marzulli

Hosts: Mondo Gonzales and Gary Stearman
Guest: L.A. Marzulli
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this captivating episode, Prophecy Watchers hosts Mondo Gonzales and Gary Stearman engage with author and researcher L.A. Marzulli to explore the mysteries and evidences surrounding three fascinating phenomena: the Shroud of Turin, the Sudarium of Oviedo, and the recurring event known as the Holy Fire in Jerusalem. Drawing connections between ancient artifacts and miraculous occurrences, the conversation delves deeply into their implications for faith, history, and Bible prophecy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shroud of Turin: Artifact or Evidence?

• Physical Description & History

  • The Shroud is a linen cloth, 3.5 feet by 14 feet, with a complex 3-to-1 herringbone weave (01:20).
  • It features a faint, full-body front and back image of a crucified man, historically venerated as Jesus’s burial cloth.
  • Its display dates back to the Middle Ages, and scientific scrutiny peaked after photography revealed new details.

• Secundo Pia’s 1898 Discovery

  • First photographed, the negative revealed a vivid positive image, stunning observers (02:17):
    • "He almost drops the glass plate. He is startled and he realizes he's the first person in 2000 years to see the face of Jesus. And it's not a painting." – L.A. Marzulli (02:40)
  • The image is not created with pigment, dye, or artistic method; it's a physical and chemical anomaly.

• Forensic Evidence of the Crucifixion

  • The shroud reflects catastrophic scourging, unique blood flows, the helmet of thorns, and wounds matching gospel descriptions (03:28–05:25):
    • "His back is lacerated, his arms, his legs, his buttocks. I mean, he's scourged literally within an inch of his life." – L.A. Marzulli (04:28)

• Scientific Analysis & Debates

  • The Shroud is the most analyzed religious artifact, with numerous interdisciplinary studies.
  • Dame Isabel Piczek, a particle physicist and muralist, theorized on the event horizon nature of the image: the dorsal and frontal images don’t physically touch—suggesting a mysterious ‘event’ (07:46–08:33).
    • "She calls it the event horizon. Something is going on." – L.A. Marzulli (08:06)
  • Carbon-14 dating from the 1980s was likely skewed due to sampling from a medieval patch, not the original linen (08:34–09:43).

• The Marino Investigation

  • The late Sue and Joe Marino, independent researchers, published a pivotal paper identifying the repaired corner’s fibers as post-original, explaining C-14 discrepancies (12:58–14:20).
    • "There are different fibers... one was a patch from the 15th century, which skews the C14 dating." – L.A. Marzulli (14:20)

• Challenge to Science

  • Despite modern technology, no one has been able to replicate The Shroud’s image.
    • "We'll pay you a million pounds to duplicate it... No one can do it." – Mondo Gonzales & L.A. Marzulli (15:13–15:30)

• Faith Implications

  • The Shroud offers potential forensic evidence for Jesus's resurrection but is not required for faith (15:41):
    • "We do not need the Shroud for our faith... but man, it is unduplicable to me." – Mondo Gonzales (15:41–16:33)

The Holy Fire: History and Miraculous Claims

• Historical Context

  • The Holy Fire phenomenon has been recorded for approximately 1,700 years, manifesting annually at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem on Holy Saturday ([06:28], 18:03).
  • The miracle purportedly began after Roman and later Byzantine modifications at the site of Jesus’s tomb.
    • "Gregory of Nyssa saying that he had heard that Peter... saw the holy fire manifest on the tomb." – L.A. Marzulli (19:04)

• Miraculous Manifestation

  • The Patriarch of Jerusalem enters the tomb (the "edicule"), prays, and a blue, plasma-like fire appears, lighting candles that are then distributed (21:36–22:20).
    • "There's this blue, like flame, which plasma type, something plasma type thing over the slab. And then it goes into a pillar. He lights his candles, he goes out." – L.A. Marzulli (21:38)
  • The fire is reputedly non-burning for the first several minutes, as attested by witnesses like scientist Giulio Fanti (22:20–22:49):
    • "The normal flame burns right through the linen. The flame, the candle that was lit with the holy fire scorches it, scorches it just like this." – L.A. Marzulli (22:43)

• Attempts to Discredit and Confirmations

  • Muslim rulers (e.g., Saladin) attempted to prevent the miracle by replacing lamp wicks with lead, but the lamps still ignited, bolstering faith in the event’s supernatural character (20:38).

The Sudarium of Oviedo

• Only briefly mentioned; noted as another enigmatic cloth artifact purported to be related to Jesus's burial (06:28–17:45).

Theological and Prophetic Reflections

• Resurrection and Our Hope

  • The Shroud’s depiction of transformation supports key Christian doctrines of bodily resurrection and the glorified body (16:33–17:44):
    • "Jesus is the prototype of not only the resurrection, but also the rapture of the church. Because we are changed in a moment, instantaneously, in a twinkling of an eye." – L.A. Marzulli (16:33)

• Biblical Precedents for “Holy Fire”

  • Examples cited:
    1. Genesis 15: Flaming torch during Abraham’s covenant (26:07)
    2. Exodus: Burning bush encountered by Moses
    3. Exodus: Pillar of fire leading the Israelites
    4. Acts 2: Tongues of fire at Pentecost
       • "So the holy fire, in my opinion, is a manifestation of the third part of the Trinity. It's the Holy Spirit manifesting." – L.A. Marzulli (26:07–27:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "He realizes he's the first person in 2000 years to see the face of Jesus. And it's not a painting. I mean, there's no paint, there's no dye. It's not applied by the hand of a man."
  – L.A. Marzulli (02:40)

• "Isn't it like the Lord in some ways, to just tuck something away for almost 2,000 years? And, you know, eventually you guys are going to invent photography and then you'll see what the man on the shroud looks like."
  – L.A. Marzulli (03:11)

• "No one can do it. See, I wonder why. Because maybe it's the hand of God, maybe it's God's calling card. Maybe it's forensic evidence of the greatest event that's ever happened in history."
  – L.A. Marzulli (15:27–15:41)

• "The holy fire, in my opinion, is a manifestation of the third part of the Trinity. It's the Holy Spirit manifesting."
  – L.A. Marzulli (26:07–27:13)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 01:20 | L.A. Marzulli introduces the Shroud's characteristics | | 02:17 | First photographic revelation in 1898 | | 03:28–05:25 | Forensic and physical evidence of crucifixion on the Shroud | | 07:46–08:33 | Dame Isabel Piczek on event horizon and physics of the Shroud | | 08:34–09:43 | Faulty Carbon-14 dating and sampling controversies | | 12:58–14:20 | The Marino couple discover evidence of medieval patch | | 15:13–15:30 | Lack of ability to duplicate the Shroud and its implication | | 16:33–17:44 | Discussion on resurrection and our future bodies | | 18:03–19:04 | Origins and history of the Holy Fire event | | 21:36–22:49 | Annual manifestation of fire; scientific observations | | 26:07–27:13 | Biblical cases of holy, supernatural fire; theological implications |

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Final Reflection

The episode compellingly intertwines scientific analysis, eyewitness testimony, and faith-based interpretation to explore the enduring mysteries of the Shroud of Turin and the Holy Fire. For believers and skeptics alike, the evidence presented challenges conventional explanations and underscores, for the hosts and guest, the miraculous nature of Christ’s resurrection and its foundational role in Christian hope and prophecy.

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For further study:

• "Holy Shroud, Holy Fire" documentary by L.A. Marzulli (available via Prophecy Watchers)
• Book: "Shroud Encounter" by Russ Breault
• Featured scientific papers by Joe and Sue Marino

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking a comprehensive and insightful overview of the episode’s central themes and discoveries.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the program today, Mano Gonzalez here in studio with our good friend Louisiana Marzulli. And before we get to our good friend, I want to remind everybody about our upcoming conference. It's going to be a great time. We have over 20 speakers that are going to be sharing with us all of their specialties, which is great. These guys are experts in their field and it's such a great time to get together to fellowship with people who are like minded. Go to prophecywatchers.com and you can scroll down and see the banner and join us in. It's going to be a great time and our good friend LA is going to be there. So welcome la.

[B]

Great to be here. Thank you.

[A]

It's going to be a great time

[B]

and it's our tribe.

[A]

Yeah, you have been, you know, you and I do a lot of things together, just archeology and other things and other projects for sure.

[B]

On the trail of a Netflix.

[A]

Yes, we have a lot of stuff going on, but in the meantime you have been quite busy over the past few months and you got a new film coming out called Holy Shroud, Holy Fire. And many people who might be opposed to the Shroud, they just can't believe it. And. But yet why would we be surprised that the Miracle of God has a testimony or has a receipt? Some people call it, you call a calling card or others might call it a receipt.

[B]

Right there it is. There's a receipt right there.

[A]

Yeah, there's a receipt of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so kind of maybe talk about what is the shroud for somebody who might not have ever heard about it.

[B]

Right. And I get that a lot of people still don't know. It's a linen cloth with a three to one herringbone weave. Very complicated. It's in great condition, at least up until recently. And there's an image that's on that trous, about three and a half feet by 14ft. And the image looks like this. So this image was displayed from into the Middle Ages up to modernity. And when you would go, this is what you would see. You would see this very faint image, very faint, very faint image of a man in repose. And some of the wounds are there, so it's venerated. People will look at the thing and it's the burial cloth of Jesus. Well, what stood the world on its head in some ways when 1898, Secunda PIA is commissioned to go in and take the first photographs.

[A]

Silver plates, all these things, right?

[B]

Yeah. Old wooden boxing, you know, click, wait 10 minutes and pull the plate out,

[A]

put it in some fluid.

[B]

So he's in his. Yeah, he's in his dark room. He's in his dark room and he's got the glass plate of the headshot because he moved the box camera up to get a close up of the headshot right there. So he's developing this thing, that big one. Yeah, yeah, he's develop. Thank you. He's developing this thing. And this is what comes up on the glass plate. This is what he sees.

[A]

The negative.

[B]

Well, the negative is actually a positive image. So I'll say it again. You know, we're in the realm of cell phones, so we don't have to do that anymore, but this is actually a negative image. So when you took a picture like Secundo pia did in 1898, what should have been the negative turns into a positive. This is what he saw. He almost drops the glass plate. He is startled and he realizes he's the first person in 2000 years to see the face of Jesus. And it's not a painting. I mean, there's no paint, there's no dye. It's not applied by the hand of a man. We know that.

[A]

Science has demonstrated that.

[B]

And they can't duplicate it. So what did it and isn't it. I'm kind of quoting Russ Brault. Isn't it like the Lord in some ways, to just tuck something away for almost 2,000 years? And, you know, eventually you guys are going to invent photography and then you'll see what the man on the shroud looks like. And when you look at it, and this is very emotional for me, but when you look at the shroud, the entire body, the scourging is unbelievably brutal. I mean, it is, if I can use the word, catastrophic, it is. You're not coming back from that. And the scourging was very severe and very brutal. So when we read in the Gospels, you know, typical of a lot of scripture, Give me a paragraph, give me some detail. But they don't. He was scourged. That's basically what it says. He was scourged. Well, the Passion of the Christ, when I saw that, it's very true to the Shroud of Turin, he was whipped literally to within an inch of his life. The fact that he stumbles on the way to Calvary, before I understood what the scourging was, I used to think, well, gee, I wonder why he fell. Why did he fall? Because you don't get it. But when you look at the shroud and you look at the severity of a scourging. And there's not a place on his body except right here where the heart is located, the chest cavity right there. They didn't touch that because you would kill him. But his back is lacerated, his arms, his legs, his buttocks. I mean, he's scourged literally within an inch of his life. Part of his beard is plucked out, his nose is bent. He's got a helmet. It's not a crown, it's a helmet of thorns that's been beaten down into his skull. And you can see the blood rushing down from it. The shroud shows that piercing of Messiah with that bilirubin that comes out of that flesh wound. The nail is driven through the palm of the hand, but comes here. It comes on the wrist, not here.

[A]

At an angle.

[B]

Yes, it comes at an angle, so it comes out the back, which is exactly what the shroud shows it is. I call it God's calling card. And what's amazing about this and people still don't get it, it's forensic evidence, for crying out loud, of the greatest event in all of history. The resurrection of the fully God, fully man, Jesus of Nazareth. I mean, it's right there. And the more I study it, I, I was drawn to this thing 45 years ago as a brand new Christian. 45 years ago I walked in this little Christian bookstore. Harold Zanner was the owner, and they had basically a book like this right on the countertop. So you'd walk in and there it was, the face on the Shroud. I was instantly drawn to it. I purchased the book, I got home, read it in one or two sittings. Since then I've been an amateur syndinologist. So the film is to correlate the Shroud of Turin, the Sudarium of Oviedo, the what's called the holy fire, which has, by the way, been manifesting for about 1700 years.

[A]

We'll get into that.

[B]

Yeah, and it's just, it's mind boggling. And I believe, and I know you do too, that we're in the last of the last days. And quoting Russ Brayault again. Isn't it just like God, that conceals something and then at the last day, bring it out. Hey, guys, look at this. Which I think, and for me, it's a huge honor to be able to do this, to create a film on the shroud and then link it to the sudarium and then link it to the holy fire. It's, I mean, it's, you know, who am I that he would allow us to even do this. So it's an honor. It's very sobering, circling back of a scourging. When I was editing that, it was very emotional. Very emotional, yeah.

[A]

It's very powerful in the sense even what Ellie has put in the film. But when you think about the Shroud, it is the most analyzed, studied.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Artifact on the planet. On the planet. In the history of really certainly of Christianity in the sense of a specific artifact. There's hundreds and hundreds of points of contact between the Shroud. You look at this 14 foot piece of cloth and it's got, you know, it's. The cloth is down, the body's laid on there, and then the cloth is folded over like this. And so you have the front and the back image.

[B]

There's two images, two images. We have Dame Isabel Pixick, we dedicated the film to her, and Barry Schwartz. And Dame Isabel Picksick is a particle physicist. So when you watch that in the film, you need to watch that two or three times, maybe even more because what she's talking about is above my pay grade.

[A]

She's definitely, she was a brilliant woman.

[B]

Brilliant woman. She's incredible. And because she's a world class muralist, so she's got left, right brain going full tilt, you know, all the way. And as a particle physicist, she's looking at this because she saw that the front and the dorsal image have nothing to do with each other. Nothing to do with each other. And she calls it the event horizon. Something is going on.

[A]

Yeah, it's like it went one. One part of the image went this way and the other light went that way. Yeah.

[B]

It is unbelievable.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

It's astounding. And so it is not the work of a medieval forger. The C14 carbon 14 dating has been proven. But when you go on Wikipedia. Oh, no, it's a medieval fake. No, the carbon 14 dating has been proven to be skewed. Why? Because they took one sample. Remember this protocol, There were supposed to

[A]

be multiple samples in different parts of the Shroud.

[B]

They didn't do it. That was the protocol. And, and you know, you just don't walk in. Yeah, we'd like to do some carbon 14 days. I mean, this took years to put in place. And the team gets in there, get their approval.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're shoot out. Oh, no, no, no. The guys in the black suits come in. Three hours later, they come back in, the team comes back in. Well, you know, you're going to take one part right from here to the corner. That's where you're going to take it from. Not the three parts which would have Right. So this is where Joe Marino and his wife come into play. And I didn't realize it till I was interviewing Joe Marino. There was a disconnect between Joe when I'm interviewing him at the Prophecy Watchers conference for the Shroud film, and the husband and wife team that I had interviewed 15 years earlier.

[A]

Okay, we're going to do a little cliffhanger on that. I want you to hold that for a minute. We're going to take a little break here where you can see how to get our magazine, which again, we've had articles about the Shroud in the magazine keeps you up to date every single month. Take a listen

[C]

at Prophecy Watchers we believe that God has called us to be a voice in these last days to warn you of things to come, to educate you on the study of Bible prophecy, and to boldly proclaim the soon return of Jesus. For your gift of just $50 or more, here's what we'd love to send you 12 monthly issues of our four color magazine, the Prophecy Watcher in your choice of prophecy, print or digital. Plus five bonus DVDs packed with eye opening teachings from prophecy experts including the mystery of the Rapture, the Great Apostasy and the revealing of the Antichrist. Holy Fire in Jerusalem. New shocking discoveries surrounding the Shroud of Turin. The stones cry out the archaeological evidence for Jesus. The Mystery of the Ten Kings. Could these be the wealthy and influential oligarchs who control our world today? As an added bonus, we want to send you a one of a kind Prophetic Treasure, a book that examines every prophecy in the entire Bible. Exploring Bible Prophecy from Genesis to Revelation is the work of two prophecy legends, Tim LaHaye and Ed Hindson. It's a book you'll find on the shelf of any every prophecy expert. This 560 page masterpiece is our bonus gift to you. This $120 value can be yours for your gift of $50 with shipping included in the USA. Call us at the number on your screen or visit us online at ProphecyWatchers TV for our international friends. Please note that additional shipping fees do apply and all prices listed are in US Dollars. The signs are everywhere. The prophetic puzzle is almost complete and yet so many are still asleep. That's why the Prophecy Watchers exist. To shine a light in the darkness and help believers understand the lateness of the hour. We believe Jesus is coming soon and your support helps us take this urgent message to the ends of the earth. If you haven't heard yet, Prophecy Watchers has taken a major step in bringing you all the latest news from the fascinating world of Bible Prophec. On January 1st, we launched our first Substack page, a one stop shop where you can go for all the latest news, articles, videos, prophecy conferences, Q&As and special prophecy presentations. Much of the content on our Substack page is completely free, allowing you to join Mondo, Gary, Joe and many of our friends in becoming a Bible prophecy expert. Support the important End Times mission today by becoming a prophecy partner at ProphecyWatchers substack.

[A]

Well, welcome back. We are talking to Elaine Marzulli about his new film Holy Shroud and Holy Fire. And before I interrupted you, I apologize, but that's okay. You were talking about a couple that has done some major research.

[B]

It was Joe Moreno and his late wife Sue. And I got wind of this thing and I called them up and they came on Acceleration Radio. This is years and years and years ago. So here I am interviewing Joe for this film and all of a sudden the light bulb goes off and I realize, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You know, you guys came on the show and it just blew me away. So this is the backstory and it's worth talking about. Joe Marino's a monk, he's in a monastery. And sue is single. And they're talking about the Shroud. They're chatting and stuff online. They both have this deep interest in the Shroud, and they're talking and it happens more and more. And pretty soon they fall in love and he leaves the monastery and they get married. And. And what they realized. They wrote a paper on this and

[A]

Barry Schwartz scientific paper.

[B]

Yeah, scientific paper, peer review paper. And they basically stated that in their opinion, something was skewed with the C14 dating because they believe that there was fibers from a repair, a repair in the cloth. Sure enough, Ray Rogers, who was part of a stirp team and was in charge of all this, had fibers from the actual C14 very, very close to it. Very, very close to it, called the Reyes sample. So he goes to his microscope, looks down for the first time, and he goes, oh, my gosh. There are different fibers, different fibers, different fibers.

[A]

One was a patch.

[B]

Well, it's a patch from the 15th century, which skews the C14 dating. But when you go on Wikipedia and other sites, they still won't look at that. You know why? Because they have an axagrine. Why? Because if they can prove disprove oh, it's just a medieval forgery. Nothing to see your folks. Oh, there's no God, there's no miracles.

[A]

There's no miracles.

[B]

No miracles. You know, prophecy. Believe what you want to believe. But if it's real and the C14 dating is skewed now, what are we looking at?

[A]

Well, and let me say this, there was further research on it where they have shown very clearly that it's from the first century, when you get into the other stuff. But even more, there was a talk about the 1 million pound offer to the British Museum to say, hey, look, you guys are claiming university. Yeah, university claimed that this was a fraud. Well, we'll pay you a million pounds

[B]

to disprove the authenticity of the crowd.

[A]

Well, to duplicate it. Just create one.

[B]

Oh, that one. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, just create one. Create a shroud that follows all of these same parameters and will give you a million pounds. If you're saying that it's a forgery in the 15th century, than simply.

[C]

It would be easy.

[A]

Come on, we're in the modern age.

[B]

Duplicated. No one can do it.

[A]

No one can do it.

[B]

See, I wonder why. Because maybe it's the hand of God, maybe it's God's calling card. Maybe it's forensic evidence of the greatest event that's ever happened in history. And it's left for you and left for me.

[A]

And let me say this, and I think one of the things that I will say to you and we talk about all the time, is we do not need the Shroud for our faith, for our faith. By faith, we're saved through Jesus Christ and the resurrection. And then so, I mean, my whole life's archaeology, I mean, in biblical archaeology, So I don't need any of those things to be a believer. I was a believer before I knew any of that. But these things are interesting, they're fun, they're fascinating. They can strengthen faith in many ways. When you look at. That's the whole idea of an archaeological artifact to me, but the power of this one. It's one thing to get the Dead Sea Scrolls or something like that, but the power of the shroud itself, in what it portrays or what it points to, is the foundation of our faith, which is the resurrection. Again, we don't need it, but man, it is unduplicable to me. That's amazing.

[B]

It's the finger of God. It's the Lord showing up. And, you know, and here's something to think about, that the shroud shows the resurrection, and Jesus is the prototype of where we're all going because he's dead. He's in the tomb. There's no doubt about it. There's no swoon nonsense here. The Romans knows how to kill people and they do a really good job of it. He is absolutely dead, no doubt about it. And he's in the tomb and he's laying in the body. That's why the body is hunched up like this. Because it's rigor mortis, everybody. Rigor mortis that's happening. And all of a sudden, you know, the Holy Spirit shows up. Burst of light, you know, who knows what that is? And you get the image. I'm a shroud. And Jesus rises from the dead. He's the prototype of not only the resurrection, but also the rapture of the church. Because we are changed in a moment, instantaneously, in a twinkling of an eye.

[A]

Yeah. The Bible tells us over and over three or four times that the new body that Jesus received, his glorified physical body, that he has our lowly body is going to be conformed into something like His. Philippians 3:21. The Bible says that we're going to bear the image of the heavenly man. It's over and over. The Scripture tells us that we're going to. Our body is going to be our new body at the time of the resurrection or rapture is going to be like his. It's pretty fascinating.

[B]

Amazing. Just amazing.

[A]

And so this leads into. You kind of have three or four sections in the film, you know, certainly on the Shroud. And then you have one talking about the sudarium, which is the cloth. We don't have time to really get into that. But then the last section that you discuss is the Holy Fire, which you mentioned earlier, that you were unaware of. Talk about that.

[B]

The Holy Fire has been manifesting for 1700 years. So what people don't understand is that when the Romans came in in AD 70, they wiped out the temple. But during the bar Koshpa Revolution, A.D. 132 to 135, right around in that window of time, Romans had it up to here. And they came in and they built the Temple of Jupiter on the Temple Mount. Their God, Jupiter. And they built the Temple of Venus over Golgotha and the crucifixion site. So now jump forward a couple of centuries. No Jews are allowed there. There are people living in Jerusalem. So Constantine converts. His mother Helen goes, goes down to Jerusalem. Where's the site? Where did all this happen? She wants to know.

[A]

She's a Christian too.

[B]

Yeah. She can't Pick up a cell phone. Can we do a Skype so you can show me where? No, she has to travel from where she is down to Jerusalem. Well, locals always know. Locals know and they go, plus you

[A]

have the temple of Venus sitting there.

[B]

Well, that's the deal. You've got the temple of Venus sitting and they go right where the temple of Venus. So they deconstruct the temple of Venus, they find the tomb, they find Golgotha. Allegedly. This is where it gets a little woo woo. But they find what may be the true cross. Remember Jewish tradition, anything that had the person's blood on it had to be interred with the person. Which means the nails, the crown of thorns, possibly the cross beam. We don't know how much, but a lot, a lot. So we have the first record from Gregory of Nyssa saying that he had heard that Peter before, this is before AD 132. So Peter's still alive. He saw the holy fire manifest on the tomb. Why Peter's still alive. So now the whole thing is covered up. Helen comes in or Helena comes in and they uncover the thing and that's where the holy fire begins to manifest. And there are accounts this goes on for 1700 years. The Muslims come in. When they take Jerusalem, they take the lamps because this used to happen on every holy Saturday, the day before resurrection day. And all the lamps would be, the wicks would be there hanging in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre because that's what they built over where the slab was and also where the crucifixion was. And the lamps would light by themselves. Now how do you explain one day a year, just one day, they just all light up. Sometimes light would come beaming through and just everything would light up. So the Muslims get wind of this thing and they go in and they put lead wicks, lead wicks in all of the lamps. This is a matter of historical documentation and well, this isn't going to happen. Lights up three different times and finally they just give up. Muslims convert to Christianity and Saladin saw it. So this goes on and on and on until modernity. And now, you know, you go back 150 years, the Greek Orthodox priest, the patriarch of Jerusalem wouldn't even go into the edicule. The edicule is the building which surrounds the slab. Recent archaeological evidence, by the way, which just came out, this is after the film was produced and released. Recent archaeological evidence showed that where the etiquel was there's a garden. So I mean the tomb and the garden, the Whole thing, it just. It dovetails like this. I'm not saying that the church isn't ostentatious, because it is. And I get that.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

It's over the top.

[A]

And I understand that icons and other

[B]

things, but, yeah, just everywhere. But that's not what we zone in on. We're zoning in on this fire, which does not burn for about 10 minutes. And there's a. We interviewed this man, he's a scientist, his name is Giulio Fonti, who talks about. He's there and he gets. He gets to fire. So the Patriarch of Jerusalem goes into the edicule, he says some prayers, and according to eyewitnesses and other patriarchals who have gone in, there's this blue, like flame, which plasma type, something plasma type thing over the slab. And then it goes into a pillar. He lights his candles, he goes out. People take the candle. So Giulio Fonti had this within two or three minutes after the fire came out of the edicule. He's got two candles burning, he's got a piece of linen. He holds it over the cloth just like this. All of a sudden, he takes it out. The normal flame burns right through the linen. The flame, the candle that was lit with the holy fire scorches it, scorches it just like this, just like that. So that's what the film's about. We think there's a definite connection between the Shroud of Torah, the siderium of Oviedo, and of course, the Holy Fire.

[A]

And I want to ask you another question, but we're going to take a little break here to see how to get L A S film. Very phenomenal. The documentation is incredible, the imagery is incredible. You'll definitely want to take a listen.

[C]

The Shroud of Turin stands alone as one of the Bible's most controversial mysteries. Who saves a burial cloth with an invisible image on it for 800 years? It must have been extremely valuable to someone passed down from generation to generation. Is it a Catholic relic? Is it a fraud? And why can't we duplicate it with lasers and our advanced technology? Did Jesus leave behind proof of his resurrection for the doubting Thomases of the world? After many years of study, we believe that the image on the linen cloth is none other than Jesus. But how did it get there? We've often called it resurrection power. But recently we were stunned to discover what we believe is the divine source of that image. It's the subject of L A S film, Holy Shroud, Holy Fire. For 1700 years, this event has been taking Place in the church at the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, where many scholars believe Jesus rose from the dead. What took place is hard to believe until you see the picture of the actual plasma fire being passed down from person to person without anyone being burned. Is this the fire of God? The burning bush? The flaming tongues at Pentecost? You must see these images on LA's DVD for yourself. It's available for your gift of $30 or more with shipping included in the USA. It comes with an extra bonus DVD, Holy Fire in Jerusalem. An interview with longtime shroud researcher Russ Breault, one of the world's leading authorities on the Shroud. We also have an exciting package that includes Russ book Shroud Encounter, along with a third DVD that answers the critics of the Shroud. The the book and all three DVDs can be yours for your gift of $55 or more with free shipping in the USA. Call the number on your screen and ask for the Holy Fire in Jerusalem package. Or visit us online at ProphecyWatchers TV. Wouldn't it be just like Jesus to leave behind a receipt of the resurrection? One day he may ask you that same question he asked his disciples. Who do you say that I am? Be sure you know the right answer. Make sure you have a personal relationship with that crucified man today. He gave his life for you so you can live forever.

[A]

Welcome back. And again, I hope you do get LA's film in LA. I watched it. It's phenomenal. I really appreciated it. Of course, you know, I had a little cameo in there about talking about the archeology, which was very important. But we also know, I find this fascinating too, that the holy fire people might respond and be like, well, wait a minute, does it appear in the Bible?

[B]

Oh, yes, it does.

[A]

Very interesting. Talk about that.

[B]

Before I get in there, I just want to thank my business partner, Gil Zimmerman, and I, we worked a long time on this film and we're still kind of messing with it a little bit. But there are four examples I'm going to give you of the holy fire. So Abraham cuts a covenant with the most high God, Genesis 15. Okay, there it is right there. And there's like a pathway that's lined with all these parts of different animals. Abraham goes into a deep sleep. That torch.

[A]

Flaming torch.

[B]

Right. Flaming torch. What is a flaming torch that passes through God himself cuts the covenant. Amazing. Then you get, years later, you know, centuries later, you get Moses in the burning bush. That does not burn. What the heck is that? The flame that doesn't Burn the flame that doesn't burn. So now we've got two. Now go a little further when the Exodus happens and you get the pillar of flame, which doesn't burn, which doesn't burn. Right, which is leading the people of Israel, the children of Israel. And then finally at Pentecost, what appears over. They can't explain it. Tongues of fire. What the heck is a tongue of fire? So the holy fire, in my opinion, is a manifestation of the third part of the Trinity. It's the Holy Spirit manifesting. And that's what the film is about. We believe that that's what created the image on the Shroud of Turin. Because it's not a paint painting. It's not. There's nothing. It's a burn, but it's not a burn because it doesn't fluoresce. I mean, you got to watch the film. There's so much information in it and it was an honor to do. Thank you, Father.

[A]

Yeah, thank you for your time. La.

[B]

Thank you, Mondo.

[A]

Thank you everybody for watching today again. I hope you're just impacted by the fact that God would leave a receipt of the most powerful event in the history of humanity and that is the resurrection of Jesus Christ, showing forth that our sins have been paid with what he did on the cross. So thank you for watching today. Thank you always again for your prayers, for what we do here. We could not do without you. We'll catch you next time.

[C]

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