The Shocking Truth About Forgiveness & Heaven | L.A. Marzulli

Summary

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Prophecy Watchers Podcast Summary

Episode: The Shocking Truth About Forgiveness & Heaven
Guest: L.A. Marzulli
Hosts: Gary Stearman & Mondo Gonzales
Date: May 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on forgiveness as portrayed in L.A. Marzulli’s novel, The Waiting Room, and its essential role both in Christian faith and personal transformation. The conversation navigates through Marzulli’s motivations, the narrative of his novel, real-life applications, and profound theological implications. The discussion weaves together Marzulli’s literary creativity with biblical principles, connecting forgiveness to grace, salvation, and the practical realities of heaven.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Inspiration Behind The Waiting Room

• L.A. Marzulli’s First Novel in 20 Years:

  • Marzulli shares how the idea came unexpectedly from "the Lord" during a dinner drive, inspiring him to write it in six months without rewrites.
  • Quote: “Complete departure from anything I had been doing... It’s all His doing.” (00:20, L.A. Marzulli)

• Novel’s Concept:

  • After death, protagonist Bob Frisbee finds himself in a plush, mysterious "waiting room" in heaven where he is guided by Mr. Olam (Mr. O), a whimsical, Einstein-like figure.
  • The narrative focuses on Frisbee’s journey through the spokes of a mystical wheel—each representing someone in his life whom he has or hasn’t forgiven.

The Wheel and the Theme of Forgiveness

• Symbolism of the Wheel:

  • The wheel's spokes light up as Frisbee forgives each person, illustrating internal change and spiritual healing.
  • Quote: “At the end of the spokes... some faces are lit up and smiling, but others are dark and angry.” (03:50, L.A. Marzulli)

• Central Message:

  • The story explores how unforgiveness is a spiritual “cancer,” holding people in self-imposed prisons.
  • The Christian doctrine is reinforced: “Unless we forgive those who have trespassed against us, our Father can’t forgive us.” (05:04, L.A. Marzulli)

Personal Anecdotes on Forgiveness

• Marzulli's Story of Bitterness:

  • He recounts his own struggle with church-related bitterness and how the Holy Spirit prompted his repentance.
  • Quote: “Holy Spirit basically said, unless you forgive these people who have hurt you, your Father can’t forgive you... This is poison.” (05:22, L.A. Marzulli)

• Restoration Through Forgiveness:

  • Describes specific moments from the book, such as forgiving a childhood bully or grappling with deeply painful offenses.
  • When Frisbee refuses to forgive, he must enter the novel's dark “escape tunnel,” symbolizing the destructive outcomes of holding onto bitterness.

Real-World Applications and Emotional Impact

• Historical Analogy:

  • Marzulli recalls a real-life moment where two former Civil War soldiers—once mortal enemies—embrace and forgive each other decades later, emphasizing the story’s universal relevance. (19:33)

• Tragic Example of Unforgiveness:

  • Shares the tale of “Mean Mary,” a woman whose inability to forgive after personal tragedy led her to a bitter, lonely end.
  • Quote: “She carried that bitterness... she was called ‘Mean Mary’... she died a very angry, bitter woman, all alone.” (17:35, L.A. Marzulli)

Theological Reflections

• Forgiveness as the Structure of Grace:

  • Discussion connects the Lord’s Prayer and Jesus’ ultimate act of forgiveness (“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”) to the foundation of Christian faith. (07:39, Gary Stearman)
  • The concept of heaven as a place of massive, mutual forgiveness is explored.
  • Quote: “[In heaven]... forgiveness on a massive scale... I forgive you, too. It’s wonderful. I love you in the spirit of the Lord Jesus.” (22:37, Gary Stearman)

• Unforgiveness as Self-Imprisonment:

  • Quote: “They’re in their own prison that they built for themselves, brick by brick... forgiveness is the key.” (22:55, L.A. Marzulli)

Contemporary and Prophetic Implications

• Global Crises and Forgiveness:
  • The absence of forgiveness is connected to current global conflicts, such as the Ukraine-Russia war, suggesting that the inability to forgive paves the way for large-scale destruction. (19:27–19:49, Gary Stearman & L.A. Marzulli)

Novel’s Role in Ministry

• Marzulli and the hosts see The Waiting Room as a teaching tool for churches and individuals alike, emphasizing transformation through grace.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Novel’s Inspiration:

  • “He downloaded it... the whole book really deals with unforgiveness... that’s like a cancer.”
    — L.A. Marzulli (04:55)

• On Personal Experience:

  • “Holy Spirit taps me on the shoulder. Let it go. Bless them, forgive them, and bless them in Jesus name.”
    — L.A. Marzulli (06:30)

• On the Power of Forgiveness:

  • “Forgiveness is the key. And that’s the key to your own prison.”
    — L.A. Marzulli (22:55)

• On Heaven’s Surprises:

  • “[In heaven] you run and meet each other and hug... down on earth, we didn’t like each other. And he'll say... I forgive you for everything that I’ve held against you...”
    — Gary Stearman (22:05)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:20 – Marzulli describes the novel’s divine inspiration
• 03:50 – The wheel and its symbolism explained
• 05:22 – Marzulli’s personal story of forgiveness
• 07:31 – Core message: The Lord’s Prayer and forgiveness
• 10:10 – The “escape tunnel” and the consequences of refusing to forgive
• 15:10 – Real-life example of bitterness and healing
• 18:49 – Forgiveness and its potential to prevent global strife
• 19:33 – Civil War veterans embrace—a powerful live example
• 22:37 – Discussion about what might happen in heaven
• 22:55 – Key practical advice: “Forgiveness is the key… to your own prison.”

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Closing & Preview

• Final Thoughts:

  • Forgiveness is central to spiritual freedom, healing, and readiness for heaven, both individually and collectively.
  • Marzulli hints at a follow-up episode focusing on his research into UFOs, tying it to biblical prophecy.

• Encouragement from L.A. Marzulli:

  • “Forgive them. Bless them. We’re not condoning the wrongs... Forgiveness sets you free.” (22:55)

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This episode of Prophecy Watchers powerfully interlaces literary creativity, theology, and real-world relevance, urging listeners to confront unforgiveness and embrace grace—not only as preparation for heaven but as a necessary practice for personal peace and global reconciliation.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, I'm Gary Stearman and this is Prophecy Watchers. We have a very special guest for you today. And his name. Well, most of you will be familiar with his name. L. A Marzulli. L A. Welcome back.

[B]

Thanks for having me here, Gary. Always great to see you, sir.

[A]

What's been happening in your world?

[B]

Well, the Waiting Room. First novel in 20 years. Complete departure from anything I've been doing for the last 20 years. And the Lord just dropped this thing on me. We were driving at dinner one night and Peggy's next to me, and all of a sudden I get this download and I look at her and I go, oh, my gosh, the Lord just gave me a novel. It's like the first novel in 20 years. And I was there and I was sketching things on my iPhone in my notes and started writing it, and Charisma picked up on it, and here it is. It took six months to write, one draft, no rewrites, essentially, and it's all his doing.

[A]

Now, I can honestly say that I have read this novel called the Waiting Room. And by the way, this book, this novel raises many, many questions, which I hope we'll get to before very long. But the Waiting Room, what a concept. The Waiting Room answers this question for me. I die, I quote, unquote, go to heaven. We all talk about that, and I constantly think about what's going to happen when I get there. And basically, I don't have a clue. I'm going to go with an open mind, and here I am. And there will be maybe a guardian angel there to guide me to where I should go. And he'll say, sit right over here and I'll be right back. And that's about the most profound vision I've had. Well, you take that to a new level. The Waiting Room. You die and you go to heaven. And there you are, taken to a waiting room. A waiting room, and you meet someone. And all the way through this book, he talks to you.

[B]

And I won't give away anyone. Give away the ending.

[A]

Oh, no. That's where I stop. Except to say, this book is both entertaining and educational because it brings to mind the questions that we all have. What's going to happen to me when I get to heaven? What should I have done on earth that I didn't do? And will that be reflected in all the questions that I get, et cetera, et cetera? How did you come up with this?

[B]

Well, like I said, the Lord gave me basically the download, and I just. I was stunned by it because it was, like I said, a complete departure from anything I had done in the last 20 years on the trail of the Nephilim watchers series, the 10 DVDs on UFOs. And all of a sudden I'm talking. It's a novel. And the protagonist, Bob Frisbee, dies. He completely flatlines and he finds himself in the waiting room. It's a very plush room. It's beautiful hand carved table, abalone inlaid walnut doors, plush carpet, you know, very comfortable chairs, very subtle and wonderful lighting. I mean, everything about the waiting room is very nice. But he's alone there. He has no idea what this is. And in walks this man and he's kind of a cross between Doc and Back to the Future and Albert Einstein. He's got wild white hair, got a huge file under his arm and he's got glasses on. And he looks over the glasses kind of like you do to me sometimes, and goes, bob Frisbee. And Frisbee goes, yeah, where am I? I'm Mr. Olam, you can call me Mr. O. And he puts the file down and Bob Frisbee goes, well, why am I here? And at this point, well, because there's unforgiveness in your life and that sets the whole stage. And Frisbee goes, what do you mean unforgiveness? And Mr. O does something. And this very large wheel appears. And in that wheel are spokes. And at the end of the spokes of the wheel is a person's face. And most of them, some of them, I should say, are lit up and smiling, but others are dark and angry.

[A]

And by the way, may I just interject here that the wheel plays a major role, very much so, in the narrative. And don't ask too many questions right now. Wait till you read the book. Because bit by bit you learn what the wheel is and how it works. And what an ingenious idea. Where did you get that?

[B]

I mean, he's the rock star, I'm the roadie. And when I say he downloaded it, it's not like it's every chapter, but the whole book really deals with unforgiveness. There are so many people, myself included, by the way, who has unforgiveness in their heart. And that's like a cancer. Because unless, and the Bible tells us, unless we forgive those who have trespassed against us, our Father can't forgive us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Let me tell you a quick story. Years ago, this goes back 30, 36 years ago, okay? My wife and I left this one church and I was very bitter about it. We did not leave under good circumstances. I was very, very bitter about it. And so we didn't go to church for about two years. And I was. That bitterness and that anger, and, I mean, I reached out to other people and no one helped. I was just, nope, nope, that's it. And the Lord tapped me on the shoulder. The Holy Spirit basically said, unless you forgive these people who have hurt you, your father can't forgive you. Gary. It was like a light bulb that went off, and I was not terrified, but I sobered up very, very quickly and realized that, oh, my gosh, this. I can't hold on to this. This is poison. And I just. I repented before the Lord. I forgave those people. I actually called people on the phone and asked for their forgiveness, wrote letters and just. Just stopped completely. Just stopped. The whole, you know, bitterness, anger, just like a hot potato. And since then, you know, I'm not perfect. You said earlier, you know, we carry things around. We're all sinners. Anytime I start to harbor any unforgiveness, Holy Spirit taps me on the shoulder. Let it go. Bless them, forgive them, and bless them in Jesus name. And that's what we're told to do. And that's what the book is about. But the protagonist, Bob Frisbee, some people, very easily. Other people. In fact, one part, he goes, nope, I'm not doing it. I cannot forgive. And so it leads to something which is very dark and ominous.

[A]

Very dark and ominous, very dramatic. And, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking this concept of forgiving. What's the most common, commonly rehearsed set of verses in the Christian church? It's the Lord's Prayer.

[B]

Lord's Prayer.

[A]

And what does the Lord's Prayer say?

[B]

Give us. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who. Who trespass against us. Why is that there?

[A]

Christianity is built upon that idea. It is. Yes, it is. Because the impossibility of that idea was illustrated by Jesus. He came and was absolutely beaten to a pulp and died tortured. And all through that is forgiveness.

[B]

It's astounding. Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

There it is. Unbelievable.

[A]

And so you have taken this and made. What I've got to tell you is a very compelling story. And I think the Lord guided you in this.

[B]

You know, it's amazing how it starts off with a very easy scenario for Bob Frisbee. And Mr. O is going, you know, well, let's start. And he looks at the wheel and there's this young, young boy kind of scowling like this at the end of that spoke. And Bob goes, well, who's that? And Mr. That's David, and that's from second grade or whatever. And you've never forgiven him. And Frisbee goes. Bob Frisbee goes, well, why should I? I mean, you know, he was a bully, and, you know, he pushed me up against the locker and I reacted and knocked his front teeth out. And Mr. O goes, yeah, you won the fight, but you never really forgave him. And Bob Frisbee goes, well, what difference does that have to make? I haven't thought of him in years. And Mr. O corrects him and says, oh, no. From time to time, you think about David and you smile because you beat the bully. And at this point, Mr. O instructs him how to forgive. You bless you, bless. You forgive, and you bless them, you honor, honor your father and your mother. You bless them. You bless them. And so, reluctantly, Bob Frisbee forgives David. And that spoke on the wheel lights up, and David's face goes from a scowl to a big smile. And that's the first one, but it gets more intense as they go through the spokes on the wheel. Finally, Mr. O, you know, sort of shows him a spoke on the wheel that Bob really doesn't want to go to. And Bob Frisbee knows it's coming. He knows it's coming, but he doesn't want to deal with it, and he won't deal with it. And at one point, he just goes, nope, I can't do this. I cannot forgive. I'm not going to go down this road. Forget it. And at this point, Mr. O goes, well, there's always the escape tunnel. And Bob goes, what do you mean, the escape tunnel? Well, if you won't forgive, then the escape tunnel is your only option. And he takes Bob Frisbee over to the escape tunnel, and what unfolds is very dark and very ominous.

[A]

Let's pause for a moment, think about that, and we'll be right back with L. A Marzulli.

[C]

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[A]

And we're back and having a. What I consider to be a very enjoyable conversation, but also very educational in terms of Bible study. I think every preacher in every pulpit should know about this concept of forgiveness upon which is built really a structure, the structure of grace, Salvation by grace through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord. All of that is built around the idea of, father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Exactly. And that's the way you have put this into writing is great. I like it.

[B]

I appreciate the accolade. Thank you, sir. I really do. That's. Thank you. You know, there's a part in the book, like I was saying, where Bob Frisby goes down into the escape tunnel, and he realizes when he's down there that this is not what he thought it was. And he calls out to Mr. O, and Mr. O brings him back, and Frisbee, like, he's laying on the floor and he's battered and bruised, and I won't tell you what happens, but he's not in a good place. And this, like a ball of light envelops him and heals his wounds and restores him. And then things go up. And Bob Frisbee at this point, realizes he never wants to go back into the escape tunnel. Now, folks, it's a novel, but it's built. And the characters in the novel, many of them are composites of two or three or four different people that I have met through my 75 years on the planet here. And combined their stories. I will tell you one. And this woman has passed away a long time ago, and you'll never figure out who it is. She was a very, very bitter woman. And in the book, it talks about this. I actually use her story in the book. So she had a best friend, and they were another woman, and they dated at the same time. They got married together in a duel ceremony on the same day, and then they both got pregnant within a week of each other, which was fantastic because they were the best of friends. And one woman, the friend, they both delivered, the babies were all healthy, except five days later, her baby died. We'll call her Mary, her real name, by the way. And Mary's baby died. And that was it. She was angry and bitter, and eventually she had no relationship with what was her best friend. Her husband divorced her and married another woman and had a family so she became this very bitter, angry woman. And she carried that. Bitter. She was actually in the place where she worked, she was called. The nickname from the other employees was Mean Mary, because she was. And you know, life throws us these things, but she never forgave.

[A]

Never forgave.

[B]

And it basically killed her. I'm not saying all disease comes from anger and bitterness and unforgiveness, but certainly it can add to that. And she died a very angry, bitter woman, all alone with nobody in the world. Tragic, tragic. And who knows, if she had forgiven the whole, the whole dynamic of losing the child, things would have been different. And in the book, in the book, I don't want to give too much away, but there is a reconciliation. And I'll just say this, I'll just kind of whet your appetite. She sees Kevin, that's the boy's name, but now he's a full grown man and he's in heaven. And that's all I'll say. You got to read it because that part of the book is really. It's a tear jerker at that point.

[A]

Yes. Now, normally when we talk, we have these conversations on prophecy watchers. We're talking about Bible prophecy. And as you were talking, I was thinking about Europe, I was thinking about the Middle East, I was thinking about Russia, I was thinking about China,

[B]

and

[A]

I was thinking about forgiveness. And suddenly I'm looking at this world and I'm thinking, as you're talking, what this world needs is the ability to forgive, because nobody is in a state of forgiveness. It's going to lead to the biggest war in the history of the planet. And the Bible says so. And we've read about it many, many times. But perhaps we don't look at it as a failure of forgiveness, the ability to forgive one's neighbor and say, let's start over again and this time let's do it right.

[B]

I mean, think about the killing fields between Ukraine and Russia.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, thousands of innocent people are slaughtered every month. No one talks about that. If they would just forgive each other. And you know, let me digress from that just a little bit. I'll never forget. This goes back maybe 50 years. Okay, at least 50 years, maybe longer than that. But there was a talk show I was watching and they had these two men that were actually in the Civil War. One was from the north, one was from the south. And at that time they were very young. When they were in the Civil War, they were like 14 or 15 years old. They were boys essentially that were fighting and now, they were old men in their 90s, so this is a long time ago. And they were sitting there, and the host said, well, why don't you do the rebel yell, okay? And. And the man from the south immediately broke down in tears and said, no, no, we won't do that. And the. And these two soldiers, which were. Fought each other, right? They both started to cry and embrace. I never forgot that. I never forgot that. So the Civil War, which was just disgusting, the amount of slaughter that happened there. And yet decades later, here are these two mortal enemies weeping on each other and forgiving each other. It was a very poignant moment. That's not in the book. But some of that. Some of that definitely leached into that book.

[A]

The title of the book is the Waiting Room. And the Waiting Room, it plays the central part in the drama. And what a concept, because that waiting room, I think, is what we've all been envisioning. Someday I'm going to die. I'm safe in Christ. I'm going to go to heaven, and I'll probably be met by my guardian angel. I don't know for sure, but somebody will be there to escort me to the place that I should go. And then comes the big question mark. What? What then? Am I going to be sat down and lectured? Am I going to be given a stack of books to read? Am I going to meet someone very stern who said, now, Gary, here's what you have to do from now on. What's going to happen? But, Ellie, as I read your book, I think what's going to happen is forgiveness on a massive scale. Because when we get to heaven, we're all going to say, praise the Lord, thank you, Jesus. And oh, there's my friend. You have to live down the next block. He's up here. And you run and meet each other and hug and say, I haven't seen you in a long time. And then it dawns on you down on earth, we didn't like each other. And he'll say, I know, but I forgive you for everything that I've held against you all these years. And you say to him, I forgive you, too. It's wonderful. I love you in the spirit of the Lord Jesus. And, you know, you've really put your finger on a key element, salvation.

[B]

There are people within the church, there are people watching this right now, and I'll just speak to you. You have unforgiveness and bitterness in your heart, and you just. It will eat you alive. And forgiveness is the key. You know, people that have unforgiveness and bitterness. They're in their own prison that they built for themselves brick by brick by brick, day after day, year after year. And the hatred and the bitterness and the anger and. Well, they completely wronged me and they robbed us of this. And, you know, how can I possibly forgive? Forgiveness is the key. And that's the key to your own prison. Forgive them. Bless them. We're not condoning the wrongs. We're not saying that. And some of these wrongs are horrific, but forgiveness sets you free.

[A]

Amen. In my life, that's the truth.

[B]

Amen. Amen.

[A]

The Waiting Room written by L A Marzulli. Here's how you can get your copy.

[C]

It's been almost 12 years since Gary and Bob launched the Prophecy Watchers Ministry. I know that many of you were here with us from the beginning, cheering us on and supporting our television ministry, which reaches into millions of homes all over the world. I'd like to offer a sincere thank you to so many of you who believe in our mission. You have no idea how important you are to God's work and how much we appreciate you. As the television airwaves get more and more expensive, we need you. Today more than ever, our mission remains the same. We want to introduce people to Jesus through Bible prophecy. We want to educate the unchurched who've never been exposed to the prophecies of the Bible, showing them how close we are to the return of Jesus. Keeping people out of the tribulation remains a top priority. Elie Marzulli has been a close friend of prophecy watchers for 15 years. We've watched him become Christianity's leading expert on UFOs and journeyed with him to far off lands searching for physical proof of the hybrid Nephilim race we read about in Genesis 6. His boots on the ground. Research on the Shroud of Turin, the Roswell UFO crash, and debunking the Fatima deception make him one of the world's most trusted voices on the supernatural. The Waiting room is close to his heart, and the divine concepts of grace, mercy and forgiveness shine through. At the heart of Ella's new book, the A Book that Moved Mondo to Tears. Lies. Gary's favorite subject, the love God has for each of us. To think that he forgives our sins is a concept that's difficult for us to understand. We'd love to send you your own personal copy of the waiting room. Your $30 investment in this ministry includes a special gift, our all time favorite dvd, the Final Prophecies, a film that's been viewed by millions of people, many of whom have met Jesus through the prophecies of the Bible. If this ministry been a blessing to you, perhaps you might include a special one time gift today. We'd be forever grateful. As always we have a special package for you. It includes the waiting room and LA's Eye opening book Days of Chaos. It also comes with three DVD bonuses, a $60 value. We shall Judge Angels, a look at our lives in the millennium, the Great Delusion, a powerful UFO documentary on what LA believes will be government disclosure and the final proph, a spectacular film to watch and share with others. Both books and all three bonus DVDs are available for your gift of $55 or more with shipping included in the USA. Visit our online bookstore at ProphecyWatchers TV or call the toll free number on your screen and partner with us to help us take our message to the world. What is that message? Jesus is coming soon. Make sure you're ready to meet him.

[A]

We are back and we have a couple of minutes to exchange some concluding thoughts. And la, have you run across anything that's really exciting lately and we only have about one minute, Gary, but I want you to.

[B]

Yes, yes. I think we have to do another show on this and I can't wait. The whole UFO phenomenon and this is what I'm mostly known for. Israel burgeoning and not going away. Eleven scientists have been mysteriously died, disappeared. What's going on with that? Congress is saying on the record we have non human biologics retrieved from the crash. Your president, my president Donald Trump has stood up and stated on the record that he's going to reveal some of these files. It's all happening and haven't you and I been talking about this for decades, Gary? Decades, Absolutely. Warning the church.

[A]

Unfortunately we're out of time right now, but this conversation is going to come up, you can believe it. And LA is right at the front of investigating the very dramatic world of ufology. It's been around for decades, folks. L A and I have been watching it for decades and I can't wait to hear what he has to tell us. Hey, I'm Gary Stearman. You keep watching. We are.

[C]

Thank you so much for joining us today here at Prophecy Watchers. We hope today's program has strengthened your faith in giving you a deeper understanding of God's prophetic word.