Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton
Episode 1: "Everyone starts as a 3-Year old." How ordinary people become capable of atrocities
Release Date: June 29, 2025

1. Introduction of Hosts

Scott Horton opens the episode by welcoming listeners to the inaugural episode of "Provoked," co-hosted with his esteemed colleague, Darryl Cooper.

[00:00] Scott Horton: "Welcome to Provoked with me, Scott Horton and my good friend and co-host, Darryl Cooper."

Darryl Cooper responds with enthusiasm, highlighting his readiness to delve into the episode's themes.

[00:42] Darryl Cooper: "This is going to be fun. I'm dressed to the nines, thematically. I got my Pentagon sweatshirt that you can only get from the gym inside the Pentagon. So I'm ready to go."

2. Darryl Cooper's Background and Work

Scott provides an overview of his and Darryl’s backgrounds, establishing their credentials.

[01:04] Scott Horton: "For those who don't know me, I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute and editorial director of Antiwar.com... And this guy is my favorite podcaster, of course. He is the host of the Martyr Maid podcast."

Darryl Cooper elaborates on his professional journey, transitioning from a 20-year career in the Department of Defense to full-time podcasting.

[01:25] Darryl Cooper: "I did 20 years in the Department of Defense and active duty military working in air and ballistic missile defense as an engineer... I've been doing that full time ever since and just happy to be here with one of my heroes, Scott Horton."

3. Overview of Darryl's Podcast: "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem"

The conversation shifts to Darryl Cooper's acclaimed podcast series, "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem," exploring the Israel-Palestine conflict.

[02:52] Scott Horton: "Can we just talk about that for a minute? Can you explain first, I'll just give strangers a thumbnail sketch of what is Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem?"

Darryl explains the genesis of his podcast, driven by a desire to understand and humanize both sides of the Israel-Palestine conflict. He emphasizes extensive research and a balanced perspective.

[03:22] Darryl Cooper: "I started learning a little bit about it... I really, really tried hard to humanize both sides... to get everybody to see that there can be good versus evil actors in individual incidents."

He further shares the impact of his work, citing feedback from listeners on both Israeli and Palestinian sides who reported a shift in their perspectives.

[09:29] Darryl Cooper: "I've gotten an email from an active duty IDF soldier... it changed the way that he behaved toward the Palestinians... Arabs... sympathetic to the situation that the Jews were fleeing from in Europe."

4. Psychology of Conflict and the Cycle of Violence

The hosts delve into the psychological underpinnings of how ordinary individuals become participants in cycles of violence, a recurring theme in Darryl's work.

[10:52] Darryl Cooper: "We have this tendency to allow the worst 5% on either side of any conflict to drag everybody else down to their level. It's really hard not to do that."

Darryl reflects on his upbringing in challenging environments, highlighting how early experiences shape one’s susceptibility to violence and conflict.

[16:01] Darryl Cooper: "Big city California ghettos... I got to know a lot of people who... ended up way down a path leading to destruction."

He references historical atrocities, such as the My Lai Massacre, to illustrate how "normal" individuals can commit heinous acts under extreme stress and pressure.

[16:01] Darryl Cooper: "These are normal guys from Iowa and Nebraska... they went over there... just turned into... terrible things."

5. Comparisons to Historical Conflicts

Scott and Darryl draw parallels between the Israel-Palestine conflict and other historical conflicts to provide deeper insights into the nature of entrenched violence.

[31:42] Scott Horton: "Looking at the troubles in Northern Ireland... an intractable thing turned around."

Darryl Cooper discusses the Balkans as a poignant example of how conflicts can evolve and sometimes find resolution, contrasting it with the persistent one-sided beatdown in the Israel-Palestine situation.

[32:00] Darryl Cooper: "Unlike the Balkans, this has been a one-sided beatdown by the Zionists against the Palestinians for almost 100 years."

6. Current Iran-Israel Conflict

The discussion transitions to the contemporary Iran-Israel tensions, examining recent military engagements and their broader implications.

[43:57] Darryl Cooper: "This was an attempt to start a revolution and change the regime... they didn't have a plan B."

Darryl critiques the strategies employed by Israel and Iran, likening them to failed counterinsurgency efforts seen in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

[38:50] Darryl Cooper: "Instead of pacifying the population, it's become an escalating cycle of terrorism and reprisal on both sides."

7. The Role of the United States and Trump's Involvement

A substantial portion of the episode focuses on the United States' role in the Iran-Israel conflict, particularly under the Trump administration.

[49:18] Darryl Cooper: "This was not about their nuclear program. This was an attempt to start a revolution and change the regime."

Darryl analyzes the strategic failures and miscalculations, asserting that Trump's erratic messaging and lack of a coherent exit strategy exacerbated the conflict.

[55:47] Darryl Cooper: "Trump was trying to negotiate in good faith... confronted with a fait accompli from Netanyahu."

Scott Horton reflects on the aftermath, questioning the effectiveness of the military actions taken and the long-term consequences for regional stability.

[50:31] Scott Horton: "What remains unresolved and unknown as far as... how much damage was done."

8. Conclusion and Future Plans

As the episode wraps up, Scott and Darryl discuss their new show, "Provoked," outlining its mission to explore the psychology of conflict and human behavior in violent situations.

[60:59] Scott Horton: "This is our first episode of Provoked in the can there. I'm very proud of it. I think we did a great job."

They also touch on their other projects and encourage listeners to engage with their content across various platforms.

[63:22] Darryl Cooper: "Find them on YouTube as well... my substack with all of my episodes there as well as essays and interviews."

Notable Quotes

• Scott Horton on podcasting backgrounds:

  [01:04] "For those who don't know me, I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute and editorial director of Antiwar.com."

• Darryl Cooper on humanizing conflict:

  [03:22] "I really, really tried hard to humanize both sides... to see that there can be good versus evil actors in individual incidents."

• Darryl Cooper on psychological aspects of violence:

  [10:52] "We have this tendency to allow the worst 5% on either side of any conflict to drag everybody else down to their level."

• Darryl Cooper on historical comparisons:

  [32:00] "This has been a one-sided beatdown by the Zionists against the Palestinians for almost 100 years."

• Darryl Cooper on US involvement:

  [55:47] "Trump was trying to negotiate in good faith... confronted with a fait accompli from Netanyahu."

• Scott Horton on conflict resolution:

  [50:31] "What remains unresolved and unknown as far as... how much damage was done."

Final Thoughts

In this compelling first episode of "Provoked," Scott Horton and Darryl Cooper provide an in-depth exploration of the intricate dynamics that transform ordinary individuals into participants in severe conflicts. By intertwining personal experiences, historical analysis, and contemporary political critique, they offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the persistent and often devastating cycles of violence in human societies.

For those intrigued by the psychology of conflict and the underlying mechanisms that drive individuals and societies towards atrocity, this episode lays a strong foundation for the discussions to follow in future episodes of "Provoked."