Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton

Episode 14: LIVE – Chaos Unfolds: Comey Falls, Gaza Bleeds, Al-Qaeda at the UN
Date: September 27, 2025
Podcast Hosts: Scott Horton & Darryl Cooper

Overview

In this live episode, Scott Horton (antiwar author, radio host) and Darryl Cooper (Martyr Made podcast) dive into an eventful week in global affairs: U.S. attempts to re-engage in Afghanistan, shifting alliances in Asia, Israel’s ongoing assault on Gaza, the presence of Al-Qaeda figures at the UN, and controversy over historical narratives and neocon influence. As always, the hosts dissect the interplay between geopolitical maneuvering, war, and the psychology of conflict, while frequently skewering establishment thinking.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Afghanistan: U.S. Maneuvers & Asian Realignments

Timestamps: 01:51—08:44

• Matthew Hoh Interview, U.S. Surge in Afghanistan: Scott recounts a conversation with Afghanistan war whistleblower Matthew Hoh, highlighting the futility and costs of the Obama-era troop surge.
• Trump & Bagram Base: Recent reports of secret U.S. negotiations to regain access to Bagram Air Base are discussed. The Taliban’s public rejection of U.S. overtures is noted.
  • Darryl: “When Trump started talking about it again...the Taliban are trolling him, saying, 'so what?’ Obviously they haven’t been getting anywhere.” (03:11)
• Regional Diplomacy: New defense pacts and statements among Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, and India suggest a momentous shift away from a U.S.-dominated order.
  • Darryl: “It’s another clear signal that all the traditional things that drive history and geopolitics...are really kind of starting to reassert themselves.” (06:33)
• End of U.S. Unipolar Moment: The hosts reflect on how the era of American impunity is waning, replaced by hard-nosed, multipolar realism.
  • Scott: “That era seems like it’s coming to an end, man...we’re really gonna have to start playing with other countries as if they’re real countries again.” (08:42)

2. U.S. Foreign Policy Delusions & War on China

Timestamps: 12:00—16:52

• ‘The Fake China Threat’: Scott recommends Joseph Solis Mullen’s book arguing that China isn’t seeking global hegemony—contrary to D.C. paranoia.
  • Scott: “There’s this new study...where they pored over China’s foreign policy elite writings...it is not to replace the United States as the global hedgeman. It was never their goal.” (13:10)
• Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: The danger isn’t China’s ambitions, but U.S. antagonism possibly pushing China into a militaristic corner.
  • Scott: “We could...end up going to...nuclear war over something that’s none of our concern.” (14:41)

3. China in Africa: Competing with the U.S. Approach

Timestamps: 16:52—22:28

• Economic vs. Militant Influence: Cooper draws from his experience in East Africa:
  • “With the Chinese...they retain their sovereignty...It’s a much better arrangement, the Africans find much more compelling.” (19:35)
• U.S. Intransigence: Americans can’t stand the idea of a rival that simply does business more effectively.
• Multipolar Nuclear Risks: The stability of Cold War nuclear doctrines unravels when a third player like China emerges.
  • Darryl: “If they ramped up...all of our strategy...gets completely thrown out the window.” (21:39)

4. Nuclear War Planning & Game Theory Nightmares

Timestamps: 22:28—27:23

• Doomsday Scenarios: U.S. war games repeatedly end in global annihilation as soon as nuclear exchanges begin.
  • Scott: “There’s essentially no good off ramps once they start even tossing the smallest atom bombs back and forth. It goes to general nuclear war by that evening.” (23:10)
• Insanity of Protocols: Once plans are in motion, doctrine locks leaders into catastrophe.
  • Darryl: “It’s like this giant chart...they all collapse at the bottom into: we all die.” (24:48)

5. Syria, Al-Qaeda at the UN, and the Complicity Question

Timestamps: 30:28—38:48

• Al Qaeda’s New Face in World Diplomacy: The significance and hypocrisy of U.S. allies participating with former ‘Bin Ladenites’ in Syria:
  • Listener quote: "Literally having Al Qaeda in New York City again, absolute insane." (30:19)
• Cooper’s Conflict: Darryl analyzes the bleak prospects for Syria, with U.S., Turkish, and Israeli policies leading to a “devil’s bargain” with jihadist factions.
  • “Once Assad left...this guy Jelani...he wants to rule Syria...If that means he needs to put away the Islamism and make nice...he’ll do it.” (33:34)
• Horton’s Solution:
  • Scott: “The solution is to just butt out. To stop trying to intervene and solve these problems one way or the other.” (34:40)
• Funding Extremism: U.S. and Israeli policy cynically bolsters formerly declared enemies to suit shifting strategic aims.

6. Gaza Bleeds: Netanyahu, U.S. Complicity, and Genocide Debate

Timestamps: 38:48—48:30

• Netanyahu’s UN Speech: Horton unpacks the Israeli leader’s celebration of setbacks for Palestinian society and the systematic destruction of Gaza.
  • Scott: “He’s completely destroyed Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip. He’s decimated Hezbollah...He’s helped Al Qaeda, which he bragged about...” (38:58)
• No Palestinian State: Netanyahu’s commitment to total victory and prevention of a Palestinian state is affirmed.
  • Scott: “He’s just writing himself a blank check to keep killing anyone he can.” (43:10)
• Cycle of Violence:
  • Cooper: “What he’s really saying is when there’s no more young men left...who want to avenge their parents, then we’re done. That’s endless war.” (42:00)
• Genocide Denial Rhetoric:
  • Scott: “Genocide means destroying a nation...if he could somehow convince the Palestinians to all uproot themselves...They won’t be Palestinians anymore.” (47:11)

7. Historical Memory: Neocons, Clean Break, and Wormser’s Denials

Timestamps: 54:01—60:14

• Iraq War Origins: Listeners bring up Tucker Carlson’s exposé of neoconservatives’ Israeli motivations post-9/11.
• David Wurmser’s Reaction:
  • Scott: "Of all the people in the world, it’s David Wurmser himself who quote-tweeted (Tucker’s claim) and said, 'This is false, I know because I was there.' And yet this is true. I know because it was David Wurmser who wrote the plan in black and white." (54:05)
• Enduring Lies:
  • Darryl: “I cannot get inside the head of somebody who just can look you dead in the eye and flat out lie to you...Like, I couldn’t sleep at night and I just don’t get it.” (58:52)

8. Audience Q&A and Unanswered Crises

Timestamps: 53:48—74:25

• Ukraine Murkiness: Discussion of would-be assassins with supposed connections to Ukraine.
• Debate over U.S. Leadership and Political Class:
  • Scott: “The real answer...is regular people getting more political...it’s better to have the power reside in the mass of the people, as wrong as they are, because they’re still better than the elites...” (61:09)
  • Darryl: “To rule a country, there almost has to be at least a corner of your heart...reserved for hating your own people.” (62:11)
• 2024 Election & U.S.-Israel Policy: Both hosts agree: Israel’s actions in Gaza have become a political litmus test, and even Trump’s “good instincts” are erased by his devotion to Israeli policy.
• Cultural Reflections:
  • South Park’s Satire of Gaza: The new episode lampoons Israel’s actions, reflecting a shift in mainstream opinion.
  • Scott: “She goes to Netanyahu and just screams at him, how dare you kill all these innocent people...That’s another signpost, you know, culturally speaking.” (65:58)
• Bleak Prospects in Gaza and Ukraine: Both are pessimistic about the short-term future but reach for a faint hope in justice prevailing over time.
  • Darryl: “Good will defeat evil in the end...it might not happen on our timeline, but vengeance is mine, saith the Lord.” (74:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That era seems like it’s coming to an end, man...we’re really gonna have to start playing with other countries as if they’re real countries again.” — Scott Horton (08:42)
• “If they ramped up...all of our strategy...gets completely thrown out the window.” — Darryl Cooper (21:39)
• “There’s essentially no good off ramps once they start even tossing the smallest atom bombs back and forth. It goes to general nuclear war by that evening.” — Scott Horton (23:10)
• “Genocide means destroying a nation...if he could somehow convince the Palestinians to all uproot themselves...They won’t be Palestinians anymore.” — Scott Horton (47:11)
• “I cannot get inside the head of somebody who just can look you dead in the eye and flat out lie to you...I couldn’t sleep at night and I just don’t get it.” — Darryl Cooper (58:52)

Timeline of Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:51–08:44| Afghanistan, Bagram Base, Regional Geopolitics | | 12:00–16:52| U.S.-China Tensions, “Fake China Threat” | | 16:52–22:28| China in Africa, Nuclear Multipolarity | | 22:28–27:23| Nuclear War Simulations & Historical Policy Errors | | 30:28–38:48| Al Qaeda, Syria, U.S. Policy in the Levant | | 38:48–48:30| Gaza, Netanyahu UN Speech, “Genocide” Discourse | | 54:01–60:14| Iraq War, Clean Break Memo, David Wurmser’s Denial | | 61:09–74:25| Political Class Discussion, Cultural Reflections, Foreign Aid |

Conclusion

This episode weaves together the themes of decaying American hegemony, catastrophic policy missteps, and the recurring psychological traps that drag nations into conflict. Both hosts, while despairing of establishment solutions, put their faith in political awareness, mass action, and the inexorable arc of justice—however long it may take. The mood is biting, deeply informed, and laced with gallows humor—a must-listen for skeptics of official narratives.