← Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton
Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton
EP:24 - Terror Strikes the Homeland (Thanksgiving Special)
01:03:57
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- [00:00]
A
Tonight, some afghan CIA guy killed somebody. All humans break. The difference between humans and gods is that gods can break. Humans negotiate. Now end this war. You're watching Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton debunking the propaganda lies of the past, present and future. This is Provoked. Welcome to the show. It is Provoked. I'm Scott Horton, and he's not Daryl Cooper, because Daryl is stuck in a snowstorm, a blizzard, I tell you, snow falling out of the sky in such quantities that he can't really go around it, only through it slowly. I guess we assume that he has the necessary, you know, reflective blankets for emergencies and stuff. But this is why I live in Texas and Keith Knight here, my partner from the Libertarian Institute, lives in Arizona so that we can avoid Idaho blizzards like poor Darryl is stuck in. I don't know how bad it really is. He just called it a snowstorm. But a snowstorm is a blizzard to me. And I don't know which is worse, like a rainforest versus a jungle, like, which is wetter and has more vines and stuff. Seems to me like jungle would be more jungly, but apparently rainforest is. And the jungle is the outskirts of the rainforest.
- [01:39]
B
I learned.
- [01:40]
A
Anyway, welcome to our show tonight, Keith. How are you doing?
- [01:44]
B
I am doing very well. Happy that you asked me to pinch it for Daryl. Hope he's okay. Please, if. If you get a signal. Daryl.
- [01:53]
A
Yeah, seriously, man, we're here. So, Keith Knight, you are the managing editor at the Libertarian Institute. You are the host of your very own podcast, Don't Tread On Me On Anyone. On anyone. I'm just used to saying that because I'm such a selfish jerk, but, no, Don't Tread on Anyone, of course, is the name of it. And also you wrote two books, actually, one of them you edited and the other one you wrote, but actually that's only partially true because you're in the middle of writing another one. So first tell us about your first book that you wrote and very quickly. And then we're going to talk about this terrible terrorist attack there in Washington.
- [02:34]
B
The first book that I published, the Voluntarist Handbook, is a collection of 50 essays that I came across that I thought persuasively made the case against the state or the concept of socialism, which is the institutionalized aggression against private property. Those 50 essays, which a PDF of this book is freely available@libertarianinstitute.org I thought these were the 50 things that were so persuasive they took me from being a Republican to being a libertarian. The second one, Domestic Imperialism Nine Reasons I Left Progressivism is a Speech Act. It's actually a long transcript of a very long speech I gave in front of a group of Republicans at the University Club in Arizona, making the principled case against the concept of progressivism, something that both Democrats and Republicans have embraced generally going back to the time of Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. So both of those could be found on Amazon or libertarianinstitute.org the next book is a huge project summarizing my research on the Second World War.
- [03:41]
A
Awesome. Oh man. Well, and, and look whose chair you're sitting in here tonight. So, yeah, very stiff competition. Mr. World War II revisionist. We'll see how that goes. No, I'm sure it's going to be wonderful. And of course the Libertarian Institute will be putting it out. But listen, let's talk more Institute business later. Let's talk about the news here. We got this guy. See if I can say his name right here, man. Probably not. Ramanula Lock, lock and wall, who worked for CIA death squad the O3 unit, one of the so called zero units working for the CIA in Afghanistan. And then he was brought in on an emergency basis after the absolutely horrific botched withdrawal of August and September 2021 there. And he killed this girl, I don't know if you saw the update was he attacked two National Guard soldiers in Washington D.C. and the woman, let me get her name right, I had it right here. Sarah Beckstrom was her name. She's now died. And the other guy is Andrew Wolf is, is in critical condition right now. And it's your typical green on blue attack as the great bad Brad Pierce, who writes for us at the Institute, wrote that, you know, this happened over and over again in Afghanistan to the point that that's what we call them, the green on blue attacks. Or then they changed them to insider attacks because the green on blue was too obvious. That what you mean? It's our own sock puppets that are killing our guys. As I demonstrate in Fool's, Aaron, for a time, I believe this was army and Marines because you had Marines down in Helman, you know, in the south of the country where you had the army up in the north. But when they're training their charges, their Afghan charges, they would have their own snipers in what they called guardian angel positions, overlooking the men they were training because the idea was they knew that the, the guys they were trained could turn on them at any time. And part of this was a Taliban tactic to infiltrate people into the Afghan army to then do these attacks to completely disrupt the policy of building up the Afghan army, which succeeded. On the other hand, there was also, there were also guys who apparently had no original connection to the Taliban, but just who grabbed a rifle and took the opportunity to kill all their comrades or American troops. This happened over and over again in Afghanistan. And the idea that they would bring all of these guys to the United States the way that they did, like yeah, sure, the Taliban might want to get their ass and it's America shouldn't go around supporting CIA death squads around killing people, committing atrocities and things like this, but bringing them to the United States of America to be the American people's problem is just insane that they did it. And you can check the records. You know, I, I covered this on my show for years and I interviewed the great Australian journalist Andrew Quilty right after the withdrawal all about this specific topic of BCIA groups being brought to the United States in the aftermath of the war. And that is from October 11, 2021. Check the record. And I talk way too much in the interview. I might have been overly caffeinated. I need to start smoking cigarettes again, man. But anyway, did call it. Did call it. Absolutely. And I had, it was funny because I wouldn't check the text of Fool's Errand and I had just one kind of throwaway line about these CIA back desk squads going around and it was to a Washington Post article was the footnote. And I was like, man, where's all that great stuff that I covered about the CIA death squads? And then I realized that was all after Fool's Aaron came out in 2017 is when Quilty wrote all those articles and there was a great Human Rights Watch report about it and all that. So anyway, point being like are we supposed to believe that radical Islam did this or this is just part and parcel of America messing around. We fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. And then it turns out just like the support of the anti terrorist forces in Georgia supposedly that blew back in Omar Al Shashani. Omar the Chechen with the red beard, turned into an ISIS leader and helped lead the Islamic State in the Syria war. This stuff keeps well and I know that was what Obama wanted at the time, but still I don't think that CIA probably recruited him to switch. Anyway, point being that first of all it's a tragedy and then secondly we have a major reaction from the President. I don't know if you saw, but let me go ahead and put this up on the screen here. And then I'M not going to be able to read it here, but I think I do have the, I think I do have the thing here. Oh well, it's way too long. It's way too long. But anyway, he goes on and says, he goes on about the problems caused by the migrant population and all of this. And then he says that I will permanently pause migration from all third world countries to allow the US system to fully recover, terminate all of the millions of Biden illegal admissions, including those signed by Sleepy Joe Biden's auto, Pennsylvania and remove anyone who is not a net asset to the United States or is incapable of loving our country, end all federal benefits and subsidies to non citizens of our country, denaturalize migrants who undermine domestic tranquility and deport any foreign national who is a public charge security risk or non compatible with Western civilization. That's the President United States announced that today. Keith, he said, and the, the least objectionable part, like the most obvious first thing is all benefits and subsidies ended immediately. Anyone ought to be able to agree with that. And then, yeah, I have to say man, I, you know, I, and I've said this before that this is one issue where I really have moved to the right in recent years on this, where I've always just kind of been, you know, in the culture war stuff, I try to put that stuff off. I want to, I have this idiot dream of kind of uniting all decent people of the left and right and everywhere except the very worst of the 1/10 of the 1% who really rule us. We ought to all unite around opposition to imperialism and central banking and national police, state authority, you know, that's what we should all be able to agree on. Try to stay out of the culture worst up. I don't know that much about it and I've just known Mexicans all my life. I'm from Texas and I like Mexicans. I don't see what's the big deal. But the thing is that, no, this is, this mass migration is not the same thing as immigration and it's mass migration from all over the global south where people just have no, no kind of common tradition of Western civilization at all. And you know, I could argue they're better on foreign policy than natural born Americans usually, but otherwise I think he's really right that they're just almost certain to be a net drain through welfare benefits on every working person who's already from here. Believe me, I, I ain't that rich and I have made a lot less money than I'm making now. In the past, I've never signed up for any of these benefits whatsoever. To have foreigners come here and sign up for every kind of benefit. When I would rather die than have a Lone Star card to buy my groceries. I just. I'll go hungry before I do that. And. But then. And there's a lot of people like me. But then to have all of these people just coming for the benefits to sign up just for the welfare and not have any idea why they should be ashamed to be on the dole whatsoever, in an American spirit type of way, all of this, it's just too much. People, you know, can only assimilate so many people, and especially when the American people have abandoned all our traditions anyway. How are we supposed to inculcate people on just basic principles of. Of civics? In fact, it used to be an irony, right, Keith, that like, probably the best civics lesson anybody ever got in government school in America was immigrants coming into P to naturalize to get the citizenship test. You know what I mean? Like Apu on the Simpsons, where you got to pass. You got to know all about the causes of the Civil War. You got to be able to sing the whole national anthem and whatever. I don't know. You got to be able to explain the Bill of Rights and all that in a way that a 12th grader can't. You know what I mean? But I doubt that's even true anymore. And anyway, so. But then again, what he's talking about here is drastic. And we've seen the cops have been hardcore against, you know, they've been cracking skulls, rounding people up, and they're mostly just going after felons. I don't know what it's going to mean for. He's just going to say, like, I'm taking. I'm canceling all your green cards. Get out. And then they're just going to turn around and get on planes and go home or I don't know what the hell's going to happen or how serious he was. The man doesn't drink. But you know, how much of this can be done and how much of it would be obstructed by courts and, and how much of it is compatible with libertarianism in any way, Keith? I don't know, but I turned the microphone over to you, sir.
- [13:19]
B
In that tweet, Trump says there's 53 million foreigners on American soil, most of which are. Most of whom are on welfare. Now, I don't know where he's getting that citation or if that's true, but of Course, welfare should be immediately abolished for any immigrant. What are you going to create a green light incentive for non producers to come to the country when we already have so many problems? Consider the concept of welfare, where people are rewarded with money whether or not they engage in productive activities, mutually beneficial voluntary exchanges, creating wealth in the society, or they don't create any wealth. When it comes to the concept of welfare, this in some cases creates what you could consider an apartheid society. So if I could vote and you couldn't vote, well, we would see that that is very unjust, unfair in some ways. But that's one vote once every four years between two lying politicians. Imagine if I could get money by not producing. But you could only get money by producing and having to exchange with other people. This means people in the society have different rights based on income, based on what race or gender they are, depending on the DEI initiatives that the state takes up. So this is how welfare really divides society. You go to work, you work all day to get the money, you go to the store and the guy in front of you pays with an EBT card. That doesn't make him evil or anything, but it creates this tension that would not otherwise be there. In the case of immigrants. Specifically, if you have a welfare state in a society and immigrants come over who have access to this, this means that each additional person is a potential liability on the population. So instead of them being a potential asset, hey, someone I could hire, hey, someone I could trade with, someone I could sell my goods that I produce to, they could be a consumer of what I produce. Then you have potential assets being created. When those people have kids, those are more potential assets for the society. But when you have a welfare state, each additional person transfers away from being a potential asset and becomes a liability. So if I were to have kids and I'm a welfare recipient, well, Scott, you and the listeners are going to have to start working more because I chose to do something that puts an obligation on you, a legal obligation. If you don't chip in for the food stamps or the welfare or the Medicaid, you will be put in jail. This is why welfare is so divisive. It creates a two tiered society and makes people more hostile towards each other than they otherwise would. Now assume we abolish the welfare state immediately. Then what's the problem? Well, imagine being a Palestinian in 1920s, 1930s, and the Jews who have suffered terrible pogroms, who are facing discrimination in places like Europe, Germany especially, are coming with a, with the best of intentions to get A better life for themselves into Palestine. It's referred to as the Havara Agreement that the German Zionist Federation of 1897 came up with. They worked out a deal with the National Socialists to transfer Jews to Palestine. You might see these people as, hey, these are people coming to look for a better life. We won't give them welfare. They'll have to, you know, work and improve the society in order for them to get anywhere. Well, when a thousand come, or 500,000 or even a million, they could, you know, assimilate more or less. What happens when there's so many that at any moment they could have a separate allegiance to a group or leader that would result in oppressing the minorities that exist in that particular area. This was Winston Churchill's rationale for excluding Palestine from the atlantic charter in 1941. He actually wrote a letter to Roosevelt that, you know, we need self determination, but as far as Palestine goes, the Jews unfortunately need a homeland because of the Dreyfus affair and because of the pogroms. So even if there is no welfare state transferring large numbers of people over who could bring with them allegiances that at any moment they, that allegiance could be transferred to a political apparatus to be used to oppress the domestic population. That is very burdensome. This is something the left is suffering with when it comes to Jewish people in general. Here you have a group that has gone from the oppressed column under National Socialism in Germany to the oppressor column in the case of Gaza. Because it's not that some groups are inherently greedy and others are inherently not. Maybe that's true. Whatever. That's not the point here. The point is that this oppressed group became an oppressor group once they had enough power to establish themselves in large enough numbers in a geographical area. That is the reality of all of history. Something we should account for today when determining whether or not mass immigration is something we should justify. Yeah.
- [18:43]
A
And look, if you're saying, I don't know, who cares if some Somalis move to Minnesota? The question becomes, well, how many? To the point where then Minnesota is something different than what Minnesota had been. Now it's not Minnesota with some Somalis. Now it's just Somalia north or this kind of thing, that much of a change is it is a form of coercion over the people who already live there, obviously. And then, you know, I don't know if anybody even cares. But for the libertarian open border argument that it's just always aggression and statism and communism for anyone to have a border or enforce Immigration restrictions. I mean, I've had people argue everything only comes down to, well, I can rent an apartment to whoever I want. I would just like raise the notion that India and China each have more than a billion people that live there. So if just half of them wanted to move here, each or even just half of one of those countries, that'd be 500 million people. When we are only 300 and something million, they say maybe it's four now. So we'd be outnumbered immediately. And then it wouldn't be a matter of, oh, you can rent an apartment to whoever you want. You'd be living under Chinese law. It wouldn't be a libertarian angels on the head of a pin question whatsoever. You'd be, this would be a Hindu society now and, and the rules would be up to them to decide what caste you're in and therefore what property rights apply to you or whatever. So do the people of the middle part of North America have the right to call a halt to that at some point? Obviously. And if you ask the majority, the super majority of the population in the country, that time was a long time ago. They wanted to call a halt a long time ago. And I should also hasten to mention, since it's so relevant and I'm me that the wars have driven so much of this, why are all the Somalis in Minnesota? I mean, a big part of it is that George W. Bush's war since 2001 has helped to destroy that country, which was already a wreck. Yes, I'm not being naive about that. They were coming from communism. They had sort of a de facto libertarianism only in that all the warlords had exhausted themselves and no one had the ability to try to enforce the state. And so they were prosperous for a very short period of time at the turn of the century, before George W. Bush went in there, this sledgehammer and wrecked it and has continued to wreck it, you know, ever since then. The US has. And as Dave DeCamp has covered@antiwar.com we bombed them 101 times already this year, which is a record since the Bush years or maybe Obama. But I think even since W. Bush and Obama bombed the hell out of him, by the way, and kept this thing going the whole time. Trump wanted to end the war twice and was overruled by his own Department of Defense. And now here we are eight years later and the thing's still going. But anyways, so, and this is, this applies more to the immigration crisis in Europe of the mid 2000 teens there and which is still ongoing to a degree, is the Middle Eastern wars. And the refugees were literally coming from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Iraq. The only people who weren't were the Palestinians, because they're not allowed to go. They're captives. But that was literally where they were all coming from. And then also from Sub Saharan Africa, where it was. The Libyan regime was no longer there to keep them out to enforce that border. And so then you had a massive stream of migrants from Sub Saharan Africa through Libya to Italy and the rest. And so all of that was just directly a consequence of Europe going along with the United States of America and fighting those wars. Instead of doing everything they could to stop us, which they should have us Texans were trying to do everything we could to stop it. But these European politicians, they knew better and went along anyway. They helped destroy the, you know, Islamic Southwest Asia. And so now they're reaping the whirlwind from that. And then, you know, America's drug wars and economic wars against Latin America have a lot to do with their problems. It's far from solely responsible, but still, yeah, I think the American people have had it. The fact that Donald Trump has won, really, three times, I think, in a row, based on what they said was completely unreasonable. You know, crazy disqualifying positions like build a wall and stop immigration where it is now, and that kind of thing. He had essentially unanimous consent for that on the right anyway. And Jeb Bush was totally rejected as being the brother of George. Not just the guy who lied us into a rock, but the guy who worked with Karl Rove to displace the population of the United States with somebody else because they thought all these people will vote Republican, which is completely stupid. But that was what Carl Rove thought. So there was a huge part of the rejection of the Republican center there. And anyway. Oh, you know what, Keith? Here's the thing that bothers me too, though, is the last time I had to go get a driver's license a few years ago or get it renewed or whatever. The guy that gave me a test was an Indian from India and who was, like, obviously 60 or something and spent the first 40 years of his life in India. And so now he's been here for, I don't know, maybe 10 years or something. And he has a government job, and his government job is to ride around shotgun in my truck in the neighborhood that I grew up in and tell me whether I'm allowed to have a driver's license or not. Trying to claim, oh, I went over the White line at the stop sign or whatever. And I think he got the vibe that I might stab him in the throat if he tried to put enough marks on that page to deny me my driver's license. And I might have. And I think I move like four clicks to the right that day. And I think, you know, as well as banning all welfare of any description for any immigrants whatsoever, legal or illegal or anything, they should also be all banned from government jobs. And that means, and, and that means, yes, university professors too. I have people in my Twitter crying about that there shouldn't be government universities anyway, Commie. And that, yes, I mean, all government jobs. You should have to be born in the United States to have a government job, not just to be the President of the United States to work at the dmv. How could anyone from somewhere else come here and then be the boss of us who are from here? It's just crazy.
- [25:20]
B
I mean, imagine colonialism.
- [25:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean, imagine the chutzpah, right? Like, imagine you decide, I'm leaving here. I'm, I'm like following Bob Higgs. I'm going to go down to the Yucatan Peninsula and then I'm going to get a job at the dmv. Tell people, no, you're not allowed to drive around your hometown. I'm Keith from Arizona, and this is up to me to decide for you now. It's just nuts, dude. It's so just counterintuitive. It bothers me.
- [25:48]
B
It would be so weird for me to move to Japan, spend years there, refuse to learn Japanese, demand that I get affirmative action, be very pissed off there's not enough white representation in Japanese films. And get a job as a Japanese government worker and then, you know, use power against that population. And anytime Japanese history is mentioned, I go, the Japanese are a bunch of evil imperialists like Hirohito. All they do is kill Chinese people. This society needs to be radically changed. It's like, I think they would hate me and kind of rightfully so. Now, when it comes to the concept of immigration, it's difficult because I don't like the concept of collective punishment. I don't want to ban all people from certain countries or continents just because some or even a large number or some are bad people who will eventually potentially commit violent acts against the domestic population. So when it comes to advocating the concept of self ownership and voluntary exchange, some people hear that and say, therefore the non aggression principle means if there's a meteor about to hit the earth and the meteor stopper is Owned by a guy who is refusing to let you use it. You have to lean back and let the earth perish. These lifeboat scenarios are so ridiculous. When we advocate the non aggression principle, we're just saying all else equal self ownership, consent and voluntarism is superior to coercion or having a state apparatus when it comes to mass immigration, it is. Unfortunately for me, my current position is I'm open to being wrong. This is somewhat of a lifeboat scenario. I reluctantly advocate the use of the state to stop people from mass immigrating only because there is a. Access to a welfare state. There is a concept that these people could come in such large numbers and once they're here in large numbers, they, they'll be able to oppress the domestic population. It is a really reluctant position that I have come to recently. Again, open to being wrong. I'm sure Sheldon Richmond would convince me otherwise. I'm happy to talk to him anytime about this. But I am reluctantly supporting immigration controls because this is a real world lifeboat scenario where I believe a little aggression. Reluctantly again. Larkin Rose, you have my email. I can't wait to hear from you about how I'm wrong about this. A little aggression, unfortunately. But then again, you're giving the state a psych. The group of psychopaths of the state a green light to say who can go where and who can't. Basically ushering, ushering in some sort of Berlin Wall around America. So it's so difficult. But that is my current position, again, open to being wrong about it. But that's my rationale for this.
- [28:47]
A
Yeah, well, you know, I mean, think about Harry Brown, why government doesn't work. It doesn't matter what you want. They never do what you want. Right. You give them your ascent for your way and then they do what they want. You know, like cue the lady in the back of my cab going, well, I say we go get Saddam and get out. Yeah, well, actually that's not one of the choices on the menu, lady. You know, it's either we're doing this or we're not, but we're staying as long as possible if we go, that kind of thing. So.
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B
And the left.
- [29:14]
A
Go ahead.
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B
The left has really gotten a big dose of this. For the last 10, 15 years that I've been talking to progressives, they have been saying the government needs more power to tax and regulate. They should have more money given to the state. And after 10 years of advocating that, they're now accusing the federal government of being complicit in a genocide in Gaza. So you can advocate that they get tons of power and tons of regulatory, you know, apparatuses to which they could keep us safe and protect the working classes. But, but once you give them all that power, they don't really have much of an incentive to listen to you anymore. And they will very likely use that to do destructive things because it benefits them in a very narrow sense and you have to bear the cost in a very dispersed sense.
- [30:05]
A
And in fact, you're talking about when it was still Biden in there, but now that it's the Republicans got elected again, now it's monarchy and fascism, that same regulatory power, that domestic empire that they absolutely worship and will condemn you for failing to worship when the Democrats are in power now. Domestic imperialism, completely beyond the pale. All right, I wasn't gonna say another thing about the thing it's provoked. I'm Scott Wharton and he is Keith Knight. And I want to talk about some things that I'm thankful for. First of all, I gotta give thanks to the great Tom woods, who helped me to set up my new business, the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom. And it's based on his Liberty Classroom, which is, of course, fantastic. And it's me and great experts, Jim Bovard, Ramsey Barood, William Bupert. And very soon we will be adding Adam Francisco, C.J. kilmer and others. I don't want to give away the surprises, but I got really good ones lined up for you. And these are long, long form courses on explaining the hell of about just about everything. Me on the Middle east and very soon my course on the Cold War with Russia. Jim Bovard on Waco and the drug wars and the IRS and the TSA and all kinds of things. Ramsey Barud on Palestine, Bill Buford on how America lost every war since 1945. And then very soon, like as in this weekend, I'm almost certain, or maybe Monday, whatever Tom thinks is the best way to do it for the business. We are going to be launching Adam Francisco's course on the history of Christianity and Judaism since the invention of Christianity and the relationship between the two. And really in, in part debunking not just dispensationalism, but Christian Zionism in general and explaining why Protestant Christians as well as Catholics are in no way bound to support the modern state of Israel due to any scripture in the Bible.
- [32:11]
B
So.
- [32:12]
A
And we got C.J. kilmer coming up on how Woodrow Wilson is the worst person who ever lived and all this. Anyway, it's really great. It's been a huge success and today's Black Friday. So for anybody watching this live, especially right now or a little bit later tonight, hurry up and go to Scott hortonacademy.com and you get half off. No, 50% off for, you know, yesterday Thanksgiving and today Black Friday through midnight, I guess Eastern time. Maybe it's Texas time, but don't try your luck, dude. Head over to Scott Horton Academy dot com. It's only 200 bucks for the lifetime membership and 75 then for the one year. And for the lifers, you get a copy of Enough Already, which is my book on all the Middle east wars since Jimmy Carter and all the way through Donald Trump. And you also get a nice little notebook and pen and card for me and this kind of thing. So that's your little welcome kit for the lifers. And I'm already getting so much great feedback. People are putting it in their homeschool curriculums for their kiddos and. And already told me they're learning so much and buying all these books that I'm talking about in the course and all these things. So it's already a great success. I know it's going to continue to be a great success. We have a bunch more great stuff in store for you, but the price is never going to be this low again because we decided that, boy, we shouldn't have given them 50% off. That's kind of a little much. So that's lower than we did on the opening few days there.
- [33:38]
B
So.
- [33:38]
A
Okay, that's it. We're not doing this ever again. Seriously. And that's not a gimmick. I don't do gimmicks. I'm just telling you, this is the last time we're doing 50% off. So take advantage of it. That's the deal. And as long as I'm doing business here, look, Christmas is coming up. Your people want my stuff. Enough already. On the. On the wars. I'm also really proud of the Great Ron Paul. I don't talk about this as much. The Great Ron Paul and Hotter Than the Sun. These are compendiums or, or, you know, collections of interview transcripts, so they're not that exciting. But then again, you know, for books of interview transcripts, they're pretty damn good. The Great Ron Paul and then Hotter Than the Sun is all about nuclear weapons. And then these are the other two. I wrote Fool's Aaron on Afghanistan, which is really good. Even though that war is over. You know, if you want to read about that war, it's really a history of the war. Fool's Aaron from 2017 and then this is the latest, of course came out one year ago, Provoked How Washington started the New Cold War. And even Keith will tell you that it's not that bad. In fact, they say it's very, very good. So look, man, you know, probably people that you know and love want to see, want to receive these books under the Christmas tree, right? I mean this thing Provoked will fit right in your stocking, no problem. And then also you can buy coffee@scotthorton.org Coffee. It's the best selling coffee at Mundos. So that's all the business. I gotta do it. It's a capitalist game here, man. I need, I need revenue to keep going.
- [35:04]
B
Of course.
- [35:04]
A
Now I said I was thankful for, for Tom. I also want to say thank, I'm very thankful for, for Daryl Cooper who is changing the world. I saw this great video of this girls, they took her to Israel, put her on a tour, try to get her to sign up for citizenship in the army and everything. So then she went and listened to Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem by Daryl Cooper and says, yeah, I'm not doing that. In fact, and she did this great little video all about it. You can see it. I retweeted on my, on my Twitter feed there. And I really like this guy, he's a good friend. And I love this project that we're doing, Provoked, where it's this kind of libertarian right wing fusion sort of project here, working together on opposing imperialism first, opposing tyranny as best as we can here. And then of course I'm grateful for you, Keith, and all the guys at the Libertarian institute and@antiwar.com and all these major projects that I'm doing, all the great authors, including yourself. But you know, the institute has published 18 books now and I've got like six more in the hopper right now. I got Charles Goyettes coming on Empire of Lies, which is absolutely fantastic. I've got. Ken Silva is one of the best investigative journalists in the country right now. We're publishing his book on the assassination attempts against Donald Trump, which is going to be unparalleled greatness on that subject. We've got your book. We've got Joe Solis Mullen on the end of liberalism and what comes next. We've got an Iraq war veteran whose name is on the tip of my tongue here. I have it on the other page. I better look at it so I don't forget. Oh, Wheeler, Derek Wheeler is an Iraq war veteran who he's Like, I kind of want to write this counter recruitment thing. Man, this book is fantastic. It's far beyond just counter recruitment. And anyway, it's just great. The future of the institute coming into the new year here and everything is just fantastic. I couldn't be more grateful for that too. So. So I wanted to say that. And then also, I just like these guys. They do the mic flags. This one says provoked.
- [37:11]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [37:11]
A
And I got academy ones and I got Scott Horton show ones. And it was Tucker Carlson taught me they're called mike flags, but you get them from mike plates. And they don't sponsor this show. I just like them and they write nice little notes like, hey, thanks, Scott, and stuff like that. If you look actually on Tucker show, you know how I know that? I. I got him his TCN mic flags that you see on his mics that he uses now. That was a form of kissing up to him when we met back in July, so. So that's where Tucker Carlson got his mic flags from. Mikeplates.com I'm pretty sure is the address. But that's the name of the place. And they're really good guys and they got magnetic ones and they got screwy ones. So if you do a show and you use sure. Microphones, that's how you look good. All right. You want to say what you're thankful for, man? Are you thankful for anything?
- [38:01]
B
Absolutely. Living in a first world country, never having gone hungry or homeless. Very thankful for that. My friends and family and Scott for giving me a job six years ago, even though I am a community college dropout. Scott offered me this job after just one interview to discuss his book, Fool's Errand, which, by the way, you should brag about way more. 2017, that was published.
- [38:29]
A
Yeah.
- [38:30]
B
Okay. So in 2017, what percentage of people in the establishment, how many people at the CFR were saying that, you know, this war basically is a fool's errand of some sort of activity that has no chance of success? I remember they were very confident about the Northern alliance. I mean, 20 years. Remember, it's not only that he said this war was a fool's errand. Four years before the fall of Kabul, which I think the Northern alliance held for like 11 days or something. Who was predicting that? Well, Scott Horton was. And it's in print in 2017. And remember, it's actually, I can prove.
- [39:09]
A
That the first time I said that the Taliban. And walk. The Taliban are going to walk right into Kabul like the fall of Saigon was in 2008. Send the transcript and by the way, I hired you after I heard your show that you were doing with Patrick McFarlane at the time, not after you interviewed me. It was after I heard your podcast that you were doing with Patrick. And then actually Patrick went away and, and somebody told me, yeah, he went back to being a lawyer. And I said, yeah, but what about that Keith guy? Does anybody have his email? I thought he was great. That was what happened there.
- [39:41]
B
Okay.
- [39:42]
A
All right, back to everyone. You can listen to Patrick too.
- [39:47]
B
And I'm thankful that you offered for me to do a World War II class at the Scott Horton Academy. Let me give you a little snippet of what you'll get. Here's an archive the San page May 8th of 1940. After two days of turbulent argument, the old prime minister Neville Chamberlain mustered his majority against the labor motion of censure stemming from the failure of the Allied campaign in Central Norway. Winston Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty, accepting fullest responsibility for the defeat in Norway and warning the nation it must suffer still more because of Britain's inferiority in the air. Close the debate. One day later, Chamberlain steps down and Churchill is appointed Prime Minister. Churchill is appointed Prime Minister and Chamberlain has to step down because of an operation that was Churchill's idea as First Lord of the Admiralty. What percentage of World War II history teachers are talking about this stuff? These are the gems you'll get. Sign up for the scothortonacademy.com I will try to get that out as soon as I. As soon as I have the book out. But those are some of the gems you will come across if you check out the Scott Horton Academy and sign up as a lifetime member.
- [41:06]
A
Watch out, martyr made. You got Keith Knight right on your heels here, buddy.
- [41:10]
B
No, I think, I think Daryl's lap me. Oh, you know, things I'm thankful for. I am thankful for Daryl Cooper having the courage to say on Tucker Carlson that, you know, there's actually a little more to the Second World War than we've been led to believe. He really got the conversation started in a way that unfortunately Pat Buchanan was never able to. So yeah, I'm very thankful for Daryl Cooper taking his Tucker Carlson opportunity to spread the good word about this being another ridiculous war to add to the long list.
- [41:46]
A
You know, this is a thing for libertarians, certainly of my generation anyway. We're all brought up to essentially just accept that all the wars were inevitable or we wouldn't have fought them. And then, so then, you know, I was a revisionist on Iraq War one in real Time. I mean, I like the explosions and I didn't give a damn, but I knew it was wrong that they were going to the UN instead of the Congress for a declaration of war and all of that stuff. And it's very skeptical about all that. And, and you know, Vietnam, of course, had a very bad reputation. You learned about Korea. Why is it the forgotten war? Well, because it was horrible and no win thing and probably shouldn't have fought that one. And then you learn about World War I, of course, and it's easy to hate Woodrow Wilson and see how World War II is his fault. And then Abraham Lincoln in the Civil War. There's a lot of morality tale baked into the Civil War. Then again, it was a long time ago too, so it's a little easier to hear some revisionism about that. And then, you know, the war against Mexico, blatant aggression, stole half the country or two thirds of it. And most people think that was probably a good idea anyway. But it's, and it's easy to be revisionist about that because it's also inevitable. Of course, the war was Spain was naked imperialism, lying and stealing, the Philippines and all that kind of stuff. But World War II, come on. I mean, even if you blame Woodrow Wilson, still you got to do what you got to do, right? And it's, you know, look at who the enemy is, after all. And so, you know, libertarians, I think probably this is true for myself and, and certainly I've seen this in other libertarians, certainly in my generation, that they get around to revising their understanding of World War II last, because it's like the, the more kind of sacred civic myth. It's, it, you know, as I've said for years, that, that really. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and Ben Franklin, all those guys, they're long gone. And even Abraham Lincoln, who came much later, is just kind of lost in the mists of time where, like, the true founders of the modern American state are fdr, Truman and Eisenhower. These are the guys who founded the American empire. These are the guys who founded the state that we have now. And, and people's memories don't really go back to even that far. For the most part, maybe, but certainly no further. And it's. Anyway, and so it is brave of him, and it's brave of you to say no, man, you know what? Look at this. And, and I'm cheating. I read Pat Buchanan's book and, and hell, I read AJP Taylor and, and John Toland. I read a lot of stuff about Pearl Harbor. I interviewed Robert stinnett back in 2003, 2004. So I got really lucky on those lines that I just got an early start to this. But I know for other people it's like a stressful thing that, like, am I really coming out against the war against the fascists now? Really? Like, that's something that, you know, my grandfather fought in that thing, a lot of people's did. And, and obviously you got some, some very evil leaders in Hitler and Hirohito. So anyway, go ahead.
- [45:05]
B
Well, it's shocking because as I was preparing for a recent debate, I did with Dr. James Holland, the British historian. Oh, I was listening.
- [45:16]
A
Thanks for bringing that up. Sorry, keep talking. Go ahead.
- [45:18]
B
Thank you for saying that. Yeah, I was so between us and the listening audience, I was so terrified that he was going to come up with something and just refute my source, refute the foundation of my arguments. And I was obsessively listening to the official World War II historians. Ferguson Roberts, Victor Davis Hansen, James Holland, Martin Gilbert, all these guys. And it was so shocking to me how seldom if ever they could talk for hours and hours and hours and give entire speeches without ever mentioning the concept of conscription. The fact that FDR in peacetime instituted the first military draft men ages 18 to 35. This would have been in 1940, if I have that date. Right. Without ever mentioning the fact that. That they're so dedicated to the independence of Poland. And then there's a war where 5 million Poles died and Poland ends up under Bolshevik occupation. But in pursuit of Polish independence, they. They enact required involuntary servitude amongst their domestic population. Getting. Churchill estimates that 500,000 Britons were killed in his memoirs, whereas the official numbers 400,000. But Churchill actually lays out the case that it was closer to 500,000. They never mention the concept of forced labor in the most deadly conditions. I would argue jury duty is forced labor. But whatever, you're going to live forced labor under the most deadly conditions. And remember, we need a government because we need OSHA to keep the working class safe when they're at work. Okay, well then when the government hires you against your will, you get your limbs blown off for the independence of Poland, which doesn't even come to fruition. So, yes, it's not that I have uncovered something, I have new archives to bring, it's that I've looked through a lot of things and just caught things and emphasized them through this libertarian lens that I see things through that the other historians have not. So I think That's a very valuable asset that our side brings to this debate, which a lot of other historians don't bring.
- [47:30]
A
Yeah. And now look, I want to talk a little bit about that debate. What was the guy's name again?
- [47:35]
B
James Holland.
- [47:36]
A
James Holland. Okay? So, everybody, you can check this out. It was a zero hedge debate, and Keith just murderated this guy on World War II. Now, you're the one coming with the controversial position. The burden of proof is on you. The burden of the argument is on you. This guy's got laurels to rest on. And then. But he's the expert. With the degrees from Fancy Pants University and the books that he wrote about it and all of this stuff in the past, you come in making a merciless case in the Keith Knight style. All right, one point, 2.3, you know, valid and sound arguments, one after another after another. What you got to say about that, pal? And then he goes, well, you know, I don't know. I mean, seems kind of like you didn't even mention this or like, you know, like he. He wouldn't. He did not at all say, wow, all right, you. You're at least trying to bring some heat here. But let me set you straight, young man. You're actually wrong about this and you're wrong about that. And yeah, that's true, but it doesn't mean what you say it means. He did not do that. He was just like, you beat him up and pushed him down, and he's sitting there going, oh, well, come on, it's not like you're winning the fight yet or anything. And then he just didn't even say anything. And I. I admit that I clicked away after. I was annoyed by how weak his presentation was. I clicked away after, I don't know, four minutes, three or four minutes or something. And I was just like, well, Keith just bloody murtilated the dude. But no, perhaps there's a logical fallacy in that. You know, it's true that I whooped Bill Crystal so badly because of how bad he sucks. I mean, also, I'm great, but he really sucks, and he brought his F game to that thing. Right? And so it could be that you just went up against the weakest professor who ever studied World War II and tried to argue about it before and that maybe you're still not right, Keith. But I have to tell you, the fact that he was so flustered and actually didn't know what to say to your arguments, I think speaks pretty highly of them as well as of you. So I hope that you get to do a lot more debates like that in the future, dude. I'm sure that you'll want so continue to set that great precedent.
- [50:02]
B
I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Holland. He's done a lot of research, he's done a lot of interviews. He's taken the time to visit the places, he has been there, so to speak. And he was willing to have this conversation with me at Zero Hedge, whereas Mr. Sir Niall Ferguson and Lord Andrew Roberts declined. I hope that they reconsider. If you look at James Holland's list of contributions going back, he's got hundreds and hundreds of of articles, interviews and books on World War II specifically. I think he has not novels for young adults. Duty calls. Dunker. His fictitious books are about World War II. This guy knows his stuff and that's who I was up against. He was interviewed by lex Friedman for 3 hours and 26 minutes and they only discuss World War II. He was interviewed by Constantine Kissen and Francis on trigonometry and they went for one hour. The trigonometry guys had him on after the Daryl Cooper thing. So this is a well respected guy. This is not me walking up to random people, you know, saying, hey, what do you think about the Havara Agreement? And then trying to pounce on them. This is me reaching for the stars, so to speak, because I wanted to see what the response would, would be to this.
- [51:25]
A
Yeah, well, look, he's got every credential in the world, no question about that. Man, if anybody ought to be able to put up a fight, you know, and maybe he just wasn't prepared, maybe he just hasn't heard these kind of arguments before and just didn't know how to wrap his head around what he was hearing or what the way he tried to dismiss you and go, well, you didn't even mention the Holocaust. Well, you were saying that there need not be a war. So no war, no Holocaust. You know what I mean? And it's not like you had avoided that. It was just separate from the points you're making in your opening argument there. He's acting like that was the cause of the war or something, but that was not the cause of the war.
- [52:04]
B
Yeah, that's why Britain declared war three years earlier because they saw the Holocaust on the horizon but never mentioned it to the population. That's completely ridiculous. They justifying previous actions based on things that they didn't foresee happening in the future. So that, that is of course entirely fake. My whole thing with this is, I want to say True things that are important. The sun is hot is something true, but that's not important. Everyone knows that. Everyone has heard about the Holocaust, Mr. Holland. They've heard it so much. I only had 15 minutes in my opening. I wanted to make sure people heard things they hadn't heard previously. Yes, I'm familiar with the incident, as is everyone else. It's mentioned every single time there's a discussion on Israel and Gaza. The Nazis and the Holocaust are inevitably mentioned. I didn't mention it because I don't care. I didn't mention it because. Okay, people know about this. Let's wait for the conversational time. But he wasn't accusing me of anything. But that is the reason I didn't mention it in my opening.
- [53:07]
A
Yeah. All right. Hey look, I want to talk about the, the Ukraine deal real quick. I just want will really dwell on it. We're running out of time, but want to urge everybody go read Daniel McAdam's article at the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity. It's also running@antiwar.com over the weekend and I'm not sure if it's on the Institute site yet, Keith, or not. I know Hunter's going to run it if he's not running it already. But it's just a great takedown by Dan McAdams, who's Ron Paul's right hand man, of course, the co host of the Liberty report and Dr. Paul's foreign policy advisor for a great many years now, going back to his congressional campaign or congressional office, I should say. And, and Dan just explains how, you know, they had something like a basis to negotiate. The original proposal was imperfect, but it was something. And then the Europeans objected and Rubio went in there and helped them take out the parts like baked in neutrality and a vow to never bring Ukraine into NATO and remove those things from the proposed treaty. Now the headline on Antiwar.com today says Putin says look, the, the original proposal could be the potential basis for negotiations. But he's very non committal here. And you know, I look at the Twitters and I see how the hawks say that like, oh, it's such a horrible thing to force Ukraine to accept this. But compared to what? I mean, America has to do all of the arming and our military and spies do all the intelligence and all of that, helping with the targeting and the logistics and everything there. Some huge percentage of the war is being handled, if not directly fought by the United States here. And all we're doing is hurting our friends. We're not helping them repel the Russians. I mean, if. If the tide had turned and the Ukrainians were kicking the Russians asses and chasing them right out of the country, and then Donald Trump wanted to leave him high and dry and cut him off right then, well, I would still be for it, but because I'm for. Against any of this. I'd hate to see what would actually happen if it actually went that far. But. But you'd at least have an argument there. In this case, it's, we're just getting our friends into worse and worse and worse trouble. And of course, you know, their government is willing to stay in it. I think Zelensky is probably afraid that he'll be assassinated if he ends the war, has, you know, radicals far to his right who would, who have, you know, threatened repeatedly to kill him if he capitulates in the past. But the reality is they've lost Pavrosk and they're losing more towns and more area all the time. The Russians are winning slowly. They don't have to deal. They're not in a position of weakness where they're asking Donald Trump for a lifeline here. If anything, it's. Donald Trump is saying, I want to end this war. Will you please do me a favor, make me look good by letting me in this thing now? Otherwise, America has no direct interest in the thing, you know, other than Donald Trump being able to show that he's able to accomplish something reasonable through diplomacy and bring an end to a crisis. But I think the Russians, it's not like they're in the middle of a massive economic crisis right now. I mean, the war is costing them a lot of money, but ultimately they can afford it. You know, look at us, we just went from 37 to 38. We're right now about to flip over to $39 trillion in debt. We're paying the amount that. We're adding the amount that we spent on the Ukraine war, $300 billion or 350 or whatever it is now, we're adding that every couple of months to the national debt. At the rate it's skyrocketing now, we gotta quit. And, you know, it would be like if we were giving meager support to the Palestinians to fight the Israelis, when all that does is just drive the Likud mad and make them bomb more, you know what I mean? Where the Palestinians are never going to be able to turn the tide in this thing. They're just going to be able to fight longer and get killed more, and along with the innocent civilians around Them that would be the height of irresponsibility to do that. It's not an endorsement of what Russia's done here. It's not to say that, oh no, they can change whatever border they want if they feel like it. And all of that. We've been over that. There's still a reality on the ground. And the fact that the war party in Washington and there's a great article about this in the American Conservative, by the way, by I believe Andrew Day about this, the war party and by Jack Hunter, I think too. No, no, he's on Venezuela. Anyway, the war party here and in Europe, they're just insane about this. Donald Trump says the most reasonable thing in the world, which is let's end this fighting. And they go, it's treason and they just attack him. The Europeans try to undermine him and then his own national Security advisor and Secretary of State Marco Rubio is of course going to sign side with the hawks every time he is one and personnel is policy and here we are. So he ain't quite John Bolton, but he apparently is not willing to do the work to see this thing through. They think the Russian. Look, they don't think, Keith, that the Russians are going to accept taking the part about we promise not to bring them into NATO out of the thing. You know what I mean? They know what they're doing. It's sabotage, it's criminal. I hate it. Anyway, sorry, I was just going to say one quick thing about it and I ended up rambling on it. But that's the situation with that. I think it's a dead letter. I think that Rubio succeeded in killing it.
- [58:45]
B
And it's so sick to hear these politicians. Lindsey Graham. Worst of all is that they masquerade themselves as saying I'm pro Ukraine, therefore it automatically implies that I support them continuing this war to preserve the Donbass region and an open door policy for NATO on Russia's border. The pro Ukraine position has led to heaven knows, tens of thousands, a hundred thousand dead Ukrainians. Jeff Sachs says it's even north of that. But say it's tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians. How can you consider yourself pro Ukraine if the policies you advocate result in mass Ukrainian death? Just completely psychotic.
- [59:27]
A
Yeah. And yeah, in a war that it was so clear that they were destined to lose no matter what, the whole time. And it's certainly in the hundreds of thousands. The only question is whether it's in the medium or high. Hundreds of thousands killed at this point, I think especially on the Ukrainian side and Look, I just. Let me just say about Venezuela. I didn't even get a chance to read it, but the New York Times has a story that says that Trump talked to Maduro on the phone the other day and I guess was trying to make threats and convince the guy to step down or what. But I'm sorry, I did not have a chance to read the article because I was too busy arguing on Twitter for no reason. But that's something to look at anyway. And. And you guys know you can jump over the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, or whatever you want. Paywall. I'm not recommending people read the Post, but sometimes it's your job and you have to. You need to jump over those pay walls. Just go to archive is and you read whatever you want. So I encourage people to do that. Now, look, let's. Let's take a couple of super chats here. Answer straight away. Abolishing women's suffrage. I don't think we've got time to talk about that one tonight. Love, Keith Knight. Of course, we all love Keith Knight, man. Keith, tell us about your show real quick.
- [60:46]
B
The Don't Tread on Anyone podcast is basically a show that I have that is not weekly. There's no set time. Anytime I think I have something productive that I wish my high school teachers would have taught me, I try to summarize it for the audience. That's the metric that I use when I determine what I should put up there. At 1,100 episodes, you could find me on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify. I have over 250 interviews. I think half of them are with you. So, yeah, check out the Don't Tread on Anyone podcast.
- [61:25]
A
All right, well, if you people want us to read your questions, you got to put the bucks down, man. Or we could just let you guys go and have a good Thanksgiving weekend with your families. Maybe you should go to Scott hortonacademy.com and sign up and share the education with your people. And I guess that's it, man. Let's call it a night. Thank you, Keith, so much for coming on the show and filling in for good old Daryl tonight. And we'll see y' all next week.
- [61:56]
B
Bye.
- [61:58]
A
This has been Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton. Be sure to like and subscribe to help us beat the propaganda algorithm. Go follow at ProvokedShow on X and YouTube and tune in next time for more Provoked.