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- [00:01]
Scott Horton
Expedia and visit Scotland invite you to come Step into centuries of history that await in Scotland.
- [00:08]
Tom Woods
Castles steeped in legend walk along cobblestone streets.
- [00:13]
Scott Horton
Come share the warmth of stories passed down through generations. This is a place with a past that is fully present today and all yours to explore. Plan your Scottish escape today@expedia.com VisitScotland Study and Play come together on a Windows 11 PC.
- [00:34]
Tom Woods
And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30, terms at aka mscollegepc. All right, tonight on the show, where the hell's Daryl? Oh, no, he's out sick. But we got Tom woods instead. All humans break. The difference between humans and gods is that gods can break. Humans negotiate. Now end this war. You're watching provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton debunking the propaganda lies of the past, present, and future. This is provoked. All right, kiddos, welcome to the show. It is provoked. I am Scott Horton. I'm half of this show. Usually it's Daryl Cooper, AKA Martyr Maid, America's most honest and thorough historian. But tonight we've got, well, America's second most. Second most honest story, the great Tom woods, as I used to joke, author of more than half of all the books that have ever been published and a good friend of the show. Welcome, Tom. How are you, sir?
- [02:10]
Scott Horton
I'm doing great, Scott, but I'm especially doing especially well because this was the day that the Scott Horton Joe Rogan appearance was released. And this is a consummation much to be celebrated because for years, years your fans have been saying, man, we got to get you on Joe Rogan. And it finally happened.
- [02:32]
Tom Woods
Yes, that's true. And it went real well, I think. You know, I. I guess I can't say that I said anything in the interview that was very special compared to my usual interviews. I do a lot of interviews. You know, sometimes I'll spend all day Thursday being interviewed and say the same thing over and over and sometimes twice on the same show. And so I don't know that the interview of me was that great other than just the venue itself and that I was able to finally get on there and say this stuff to a whole new audience and hopefully that'll, you know, help raise the entire issue or, you know, some of the substantial issues and details that we discussed to broader attention and things like that. So is it.
- [03:13]
Scott Horton
Well, that's the thing. I mean, for this, you don't need anything that's wildly original. You have a brand new audience in. In, you know, I'm sure there's a fraction they've heard of you, but it's largely a brand new audience. They just need Scott Horton, you know, they. They need what you've been telling everybody else. And so does it. Is it. Is it nerve wracking being on with Joe in that? You know, it's a big audience and this is like a big deal and all that, or are you just kind of past all that now?
- [03:41]
Tom Woods
Well, I mean, I was telling myself not to be nervous just because I know how to talk about the subject matter. I do it so much. And then I thought, I'm gonna get along fine with him, right? There's no.
- [03:51]
Scott Horton
And you guys did. You got along great. It was fine.
- [03:54]
Tom Woods
It was just like, I hope, basically, you know, from the time I got there, him and all his guys were really nice to me, and everything was very nice and whatever. So I gave him a pipe as a little present. At the beginning, we had a little camaraderie about our mutual admiration of Kurt Metzger, who is just an absolute riot. I don't know if you've ever seen his comedy, but the guy's just Tasmanian Devil. I just love him to death. So we had a good little, you know, talk about that to start off, what's fun. And then got into the wars, talked about Iran, talked about Ukraine, and I admit, I'm kicking myself. There are a couple times, like, man, I. I said, Hans Dietrich Genscher was the foreign minister of Britain. When I.
- [04:35]
Scott Horton
Everybody knows that was our mistake. Just listen to the name. It' not English at all.
- [04:40]
Tom Woods
It was this dumbest thing in the world. I do that sometimes. I One times called. One time called for Glenn Greenwald to be taken out and shot, but I meant Wolfowitz. And it was something that Greenwall had written about Wolfowitz. But I was like, this Greenwall, they
- [04:52]
Scott Horton
ought to take him out.
- [04:55]
Tom Woods
Just say the wrong words like a verbal typo. And then I did it again, like almost immediately, where I called. First I called Germany Britain, and then I called. Or maybe first I called Britain Russia. When I was saying Threads is the Russian version of the Day after, when I was trying to say it's the British version of the Day after about Margaret Thatcher getting England into a war With Russia.
- [05:16]
Scott Horton
And by the way, by the way. So as you said, Threads really is the British answer to the American TV movie the Day after, which I, I was, I mean, I'm a little older than you, Scott. I watched that as a, as like a pre teen, even though my parents, you know, told me I was forbidden to watch it because I thought I would be scared to death, which I was. But I was, I wanted to tell them, that's half the fun. I want to be scared to death, you know, So I snuck around and watched it. But I only watched Threads about two years ago. And anybody listening to us, if you haven't heard of it, that it was made around like 1984 or something. And it's, it's not, let's say the Day after is literally about the day after a nuclear exchange. But Threads takes you a month after, two months after, a year after. And it is. I watched it because one of my favorite musicians in his book, Stephen Wilson, in his book is listing movies that he likes and he mentions Threads and he says, let me tell you something about Threads. Nothing good happens to anybody in this movie. And then as it's going along, only worse things happen. And I thought, I have to see this. So it's very, very much worth seeing.
- [06:25]
Tom Woods
That was one of my lines that they hated or just did not understand at all at Oxford, where I said, of course we can't fight Russia. Haven't y' all seen Threads? Which they're all college kids, of course they haven't seen Threads.
- [06:38]
Scott Horton
It's ridiculous. Like it's an English movie and you know it better than they do.
- [06:42]
Tom Woods
I said, I said London would be gone, Oxford would be gone, the survivors would be burning Empire Strikes Back action figures for Cooking Fuel. Yeah, that's a scene in that movie.
- [06:54]
Scott Horton
Right, right, right, right. But, but see, as you were telling me on the phone the other day, I mean, these people, you know, they're college kids, they're Oxford students, so they know they're not going to be fighting in any particular war. Although a war like that doesn't really matter if you're fighting or you're a civilian, because if it, if it comes to that, it's not going to make a distinction between those. But they have this idea that high sounding language is more important than not dying in a nuclear war.
- [07:23]
Tom Woods
Yeah. It reminds me of in 1998 when India and Pakistan were testing their nukes and nobody was paying any attention because it was the same week that it was Seinfeld's final episode. So that was the only thing anybody cared about. Anyway, India and Pakistan were testing their atom bombs and I forgot, I guess it was CNN or whatever showed a Pakistani general telling the cameraman, you tell those Indians we're not afraid of their atom bombs. Just like as though your fear of them or not makes a bit of difference when you're splitting atoms over your head, using them together, even worse, you know? But, yeah, so I, I'm kicking myself over. I had a couple of verbal little typos there. I forgot Belt and Road initiative. When I'm trying to talk about China's project to build a big highway across Eurasia, which. Dude, that was so stupid of all the brain farts to.
- [08:17]
Scott Horton
Yeah, but I'm here to make sure that you don't go overboard being hard on yourself because it's two and a half hours of non stop intellectual exertion, you know, I mean, you got to give yourself some grace here.
- [08:31]
Tom Woods
I'm, I'm glad that you liked it. I, I actually was afraid that I was a little too heavy on the details of some parts too, where I needed to calibrate my delivery a bit, you know, I don't know, man, whatever. I'm always going to do that after action kind of thing, you know, but problems. And he liked it, so it was good, you know.
- [08:51]
Scott Horton
Yeah. And he wants your number, which is good. But I mean, it's. Because the thing is you have, even though you're not an academic, you have the instincts of a teacher, you have knowledge and you, you wish there was some way you could pump it directly into another person's brain. Now, by the way, Scott Horton Academy, you can do that. But that's true. But that's. Your instinct is you, you've got the knowledge, you want to give it to people. Oh, look at that. Look at, look at you. You're showing off with your graphic capabilities here.
- [09:17]
Tom Woods
That's right. Well, somebody made that for me, of course. But yes, Academy of Thanks to Tom Woods, I have this academy where you guys can come and learn all this stuff. Yeah. So, yes, I'm giving it like at least an A, you know, a minus maybe, but like, good enough, man, for me. Yeah, you know, you.
- [09:40]
Scott Horton
So Scott sent me the, the link early today to Joe Rogan's YouTube channel. And, and, and he sort of semi jokingly said, keep refreshing this, you know, well, you know, jokes on you. Because I did do that. And then eventually you came on and
- [09:54]
Tom Woods
I said, oh, a little bit after that that Dave told me, he texted me and said, by the way, it usually comes on around noon your time, so. Oh, okay. So went and did some work in the garage for a minute and came back. All right. Yeah.
- [10:09]
Scott Horton
And there it is.
- [10:10]
Tom Woods
Yeah. So there you go, man. For all you people who always wanted to see me on the Joe Rogan show, it finally happens over there. So after this, go watch it.
- [10:17]
Scott Horton
And. And the other benefit of that, Scott, is that the more you're on these huge shows, the more YouTube likes your name because it associates your name with lots of views. So then you go on another show, you know, like a schmuck like me, and it elevates me, you know, I get. I get extra views because. Because it has the name Scott Horton in it. I should just put the name Scott Horton in there even when you're not on now.
- [10:40]
Tom Woods
Yeah, that's good, man. I also then this almost never comes up, but I had a chance to accuse Bill Clinton of selling missile technology transfer stuff to China for campaign cash, which, you know, year of the rat and all that stuff from a long time ago that nobody pays attention to that stuff anymore. But I got to. I got all the names right and everything too, sometimes. I one time screwed them up, but I got em right this time. And so yeah, I. Even unless you had a little Waco reference that they started the Iran war on the anniversary of the Waco raid, so threw that in there, it's worth
- [11:14]
Scott Horton
6 cents unless you have something planned. I want to ask you a Bill Clinton question, if you don't mind.
- [11:18]
Tom Woods
Yeah, do whatever you want.
- [11:19]
Scott Horton
All right, so there's this Bill Clinton quote. Now, I don't know when he said it, maybe it was after he left office or what, but he said something like this, that the Palestinians were offered a state, they didn't want it. Instead they just wanted to kill Jews.
- [11:32]
Tom Woods
Oh, God.
- [11:33]
Scott Horton
So how do you, how do you respond to that?
- [11:38]
Tom Woods
Rolling my eyes, basically.
- [11:41]
Scott Horton
I'm giving you a meatball over the plate here, Scott.
- [11:44]
Tom Woods
Yeah, I mean, so what happened was probably like the second most generous offer the Israelis ever gave the Palestinians was at Camp David at the year 2000. But it was nothing like a real Palestinian state. And it was all cut up. And for almost all of it, they wouldn't even show them a map. And it was essentially not even really a complete offer. And then Arafat didn't accept it. And at the time, Bill Clinton promised Arafat that, look, man, I understand it's the Israelis who are being intransigent here and are dragging out the process in such a way to make sure that a Deal is impossible. So don't worry, I'm not going to throw you under the bus and blame you for this if it falls through. And then he turned right around and threw him under the bus and blamed him for it all falling through. When you know there's a book called the Secret History of Camp David, the Truth About Camp David, there it is by Clayton Swisher where he goes over all of this in great detail. He was there I believe working as security at the meeting. But then later, I don't know if it was for his PhD or what, when interviewed all the principals and everything, went back over it all and interviewed everybody. I guess his original experience was hey, that's not what happened. I was standing right there. And then he went and wrote a book about it, you know. And then in fact there's a semi famous clip of, of Zigna Brzezinski dressing down Joe Scarborough on the Morning Joe show. So of course Zbigniew Brzezinski's daughter Mika is the co host and wife of Joe Scarborough. And so they would have Zabignu on from time to time. This is Jimmy Carter's national security advisor, sort of the Democratic Henry Kissinger. And Scarborough starts saying that, oh yeah, tried to give him a two state solution and they refused to accept it because they rather fight away. And Brzezinski is like, this is just the most absolutely absurd and sophomore thing and like just totally dresses him down and insults him and says you have no idea what you're talking about. And you know, all the action was at Taba later. And of course I forgot the exact timing, Tom, but it was, I believe right after Camp David when they still had the, the future meeting scheduled was when Ariel Sharon took his troops and went to the Temple Mount. And that was what kicked off the second Intifada, which then of course made the compromise that much more difficult. And it was too late at Taba then Ehud Barak based elections and Bill Clinton was out and W. Bush was coming in. And then was the, the question was, can Colin Powell hold off Dick Cheney and the boys? And the answer was no, he cannot. So of course after September 11th, Colin Powell said, We got to do a two state solution, boss, you got a 90% approval rating. This is the key to our terrorism problem. We've got to take care of it. And Bush agreed, but then lost the Israelis and the Israeli lobby in America faced him down and made him back down. And he did. So anyway. This is a great myth of the Israel lobby and the Israeli regime That they tried to give him a two state solution and they just wouldn't take it. Like, okay, even if that was true. Well, why don't you do it now then? Why haven't you done it this whole time? How come the offer was only good in the fall of 2000, but never after that? Because it's a bunch of. That's why. Give me a break, dude. They want that land. They call it Judea and Sumeria. And they claim that their. Their religion that they believe in says that they can have it if they want it. So isn't that convenient? That's the way that goes. So. But yeah. Oh, did I say why Daryl isn't here?
- [15:25]
Scott Horton
Daryl doesn't feel good.
- [15:26]
Tom Woods
That's why. Daryl's not.
- [15:27]
Scott Horton
Oh, okay. Well, I think I know why he was on the Tom woods show this week. So.
- [15:31]
Tom Woods
You know what? I was going to mention that and I have it in my nose right here, but I didn't remember what they meant.
- [15:36]
Scott Horton
Takes a couple days to recover from that experience, as you well know.
- [15:39]
Tom Woods
So it was a really good interview, very interesting subject matter. And then, man, I forgot what it was. There was something that y' all start talking about later in that show that I wanted to discuss with you, but I don't remember what it was anymore. It's really interesting, something he was talking about.
- [15:55]
Scott Horton
Well, if that doesn't come back to you, I certainly have something that I want to get off my chest.
- [16:00]
Tom Woods
Go ahead, let's hear it.
- [16:01]
Scott Horton
All right, well, look, I don't know that I have a whole lot to say that people haven't heard about it already. And. And yet I still think everybody wants to hear about it anyway, even though we've heard it over and over. And that is what's. What's been going on with this Thomas Massie race in Kentucky. It is.
- [16:17]
Tom Woods
So wait, so before you do that, because I. I want to spend a whole segment on that. Okay, I was planning on that.
- [16:24]
Scott Horton
Oh, good.
- [16:25]
Tom Woods
But before we do that, I talked about this last week, but I want to show everybody that the book is now out. Oh, great institute's 20th. That glare off of there. You. The Libertarian Institute's 20th book, the Trump Assassination Plots, what the Investigations Missed and why It Matters by the great investigative reporter Ken Silva. And he. I don't know if he got his start writing for us. Maybe he did, but he's been a longtime writer for the Libertarian Institute. And he, of course, now runs Headline usa, where he does all his great original investigative reporting. There's. And he's the best. I read, you know, a much earlier version of this a few months back. I still need to sit down and reread it before I interview him about it, but I know that he's just the best of the best. There's no red herrings and, and rabbit trails and BS here, other than him following them and explaining what it all really means in a way that is completely reliable for everybody. He wants to know the background of this stuff, or at least as much as can be known at this time. So that's it. Libertarianinstitute.org books and you can find all 20 of our great books and including now this great one by Ken Silva. So that's pretty good way around.
- [17:42]
Scott Horton
You guys have been putting out great stuff. I mean, I say that not simply because you publish one of my books. You really have some great right here.
- [17:48]
Tom Woods
Diary of a Psychosis.
- [17:49]
Scott Horton
Diary of a psychosis. So diaryofcovid.com check that out. It's a really good book website. But I'm, I'm very much looking forward to. I don't know if we're supposed to spill the bean, so I'll just simply say the. The I assume upcoming Keith Knight book.
- [18:04]
Tom Woods
Hey, Tom, they're saying that you're really quiet.
- [18:07]
Scott Horton
Oh, let me see if I can fix that.
- [18:09]
Tom Woods
You sound good to me, but maybe turn your gain up a little bit there. So, yes, sorry about that.
- [18:15]
Scott Horton
All right, well, let's see what I can do. But, but are we supposed to say that Keith Knight has a book coming out? Because I, I think I just spilled the beans about it.
- [18:23]
Tom Woods
Oh, you can. I think you can back off that mic a little bit now. You're a bit hot. But yeah, no, I don't think that's a secret that Keith. Yeah, Keith's right. Keith is writing a book about World War II. Yeah, he really did a podcast where he had just finished reading Winston Churchill's I believe, seven part book about World War II, his history of World War II. And Keith is finding some bad stuff in there, man.
- [18:48]
Scott Horton
Pretty sure better him than us. I don't want to read that.
- [18:52]
Tom Woods
Yeah, I know. Actually, I kind of do. But, you know, Keith is just a heat seeking missile when it comes to picking out the parts of that that you were supposed to overlook. You know what I mean?
- [19:02]
Scott Horton
So it's one of these things where I think about, all right, I'm 53, I got, you know, I can estimate how many years I probably have left. Can I really spare the hours on this? You know, I'd rather just let Keith, do it.
- [19:13]
Tom Woods
Yeah, seriously. Fair enough. Yeah, like jfk. Somebody else will solve it. I'm not sure.
- [19:19]
Scott Horton
When you said that on Rogan, I thought Scott just said my exact opinion, because I do get asked because I'm a historian and I'm a bit of a contrarian, so sometimes people want to know what's my opinion on the JFK thing? And I think, well, there are a zillion books on it. There's no. I don't think there's any explanation that's 100% ironclad, proven to the point where you'd have to be unreasonable to reject it. So that means I'm going to read a hundred books and still not feel conclusive about it. Leave that to other people.
- [19:49]
Tom Woods
That was my exact same reasoning, even as a high school kid.
- [19:52]
Scott Horton
Yeah.
- [19:52]
Tom Woods
And, like, I was conspiracy boy at the time, and I was happy to just go ahead and assume that Alan Dulles did it, but I didn't. I didn't care to, like, try to make that case to anyone else because I didn't think I could prove it. I just sort of believed that. That, yeah, it must have been. I mean, they put him in charge of the investigation, so, like, yeah, it had to have been him. That kind of thing, you know? I don't know. So, yeah. In fact. Hey, a chat room. Guys, tell me, does he sound too hot now or. It's okay. Let me know about that. We're gonna get to y' all super chats, too. Oh, audio. Great. Now they like it.
- [20:24]
Scott Horton
Okay, all right, well, as long as they like it.
- [20:26]
Tom Woods
As long as they like it, man. It's good. I was a little worried you're up in the red there, but it sounds like maybe we're all right. All right, well, so. Oh, that's funny. This guy wants to have a Kurt Mesker, Daryl Cooper, Scott Horton debate on 9 11. Boy, I don't know if that's a good idea. I tell you what, I would love to just stand around in a parking lot and debate 911 with Kurt Metzger all night long. Dude, that guy's hilarious. I'm not sure if it would be the best podcast, but I love that guy. He is so funny. Dude, I saw someone in the comments on the Rogan thing actually said, and I'm sure this is a real quote, where is Kurt Metzger? Dude, everybody knows that most cavemen were gay. Rogan, dude. What are you talking about? Metzger. Oh, you don't know that. He's so funny. Anyway, he's the best. He's the best guy on every conspiracy theory in the world. At the same time, it's fun, dude. It's like Francis C. Deck, only not actually insane, but just like at the edge, maybe.
- [21:37]
Scott Horton
Good. Okay.
- [21:39]
Tom Woods
Anyway, anyway, so here's Ken's book. Let's talk about Thomas Massie, then we'll do some super chats. Yeah, Massey, you know, unlike Dr. Paul, he did not deliver two thirds of the population of his district. And so that is working against him. On the other hand, man, he has been a loyal representative in the Most True Blue. Mr. Smith goes to Washington, type of sort of a daydream that you could possibly imagine having in this little old former constitutional republic of ours here, Tom. And, and it seemed like his seat was always safe because they knew that they liked him and trusted him and that he was a good guy and always voted the right way. And then apparently, just literally some money from some Israeli billionaires and some Fox News spin is very possibly enough to destroy.
- [22:29]
Scott Horton
And then he was basically blacklisted from Fox News for about 18 months, so he couldn't get his perspective out there. And the boomers get all their opinions just from Fox News, which explains this crazy poll I assume you saw, showing just how radically different the older people are from the younger people on Massey versus the other guy. I mean, it's. I've never seen numbers break like that, but it's. I'm sure it's because of that. And Massie has a theory that Fox did that not entirely spontaneously, but because of White House pressure, and they don't want to antagonize the White House unnecessarily. So so much the worse for Massey. I mean. I mean, I don't know.
- [23:13]
Tom Woods
Yeah. Yep. Total blackout there. Just keeping him off of Fox where nobody, you know, in those age groups can see him.
- [23:22]
Scott Horton
But now I'm looking on, on X, and I'm seeing that young Americans for Liberty are sending all these young people to Kentucky. There are all these influencers and media people saying, I'm dropping everything and I'm going to Kentucky and we're going to do everything we possibly can. And, and that some of it is that they're trying to make sure the older people know the primary is going on on Tuesday and that the younger people, you know, don't know that it's going on. So we got to go down there and get the word out. So I'm. It's incredible, all these people doing this, like, this incredible, this excitement unlike anything since the Ron Paul days. And I, I just thought to myself, could you imagine being on the other side and saying, yeah, I want to be on the side where nobody wants to go to work for the guy. I mean, who's saying I'm going to drop everything, I'm going to drop my work, my family, whatever for a week so I can go work for Ed Gallrein? No one.
- [24:15]
Tom Woods
I never even bothered to learn how to say his name.
- [24:18]
Scott Horton
Well, I know it's Gallrein because I think it was Cliff Maloney who wants to call him Gall Rhino. So that was. That helped me remember the pronunciation.
- [24:26]
Tom Woods
There you go. That fits. Yeah. No, it's something else. You know, you think about all the politicians who are willing to say that, yep, Ron Paul was right. He sure was. When? It doesn't matter at all.
- [24:38]
Scott Horton
Right.
- [24:39]
Tom Woods
Paul's long retired when nothing that he said is at issue at the moment. And they're just free to say that, like, well, if you like Ron Paul, you should like me too, or something. Well, here's a guy who has essentially Ron Paul's exact voting record in the Congress right now, and all those same people line up against him and accuse him of anything they need to.
- [24:59]
Scott Horton
Today I asked Grok, do we have any evidence that, let's see, John Paulson, Miriam Adelen or Paul Singer, the three Zionist billionaires bankrolling the non entity, the empty suit, have ever been to Kentucky? Now, I mean, that doesn't, you know, I sent Massie a donation. I have. Well, I have been. I take that back. No, I have been. I've been to Lexington. So I actually have been to Kentucky. But I was just curious, you know, have any. I mean, you're going to, you're basically buy. I mean, let's face it, they're trying to buy the seat. We all know that. And they're trying to put this ridiculous empty suit in that seat, which is an insult to any American patriot. So I asked Grok, is there any evidence that any of these people have ever set foot in Kentucky? And it said, I have searched and searched and searched and there is no evidence that any of them. And of course, I'm sure they haven't because they view Kentucky as like a backwater of the empire. People like them don't go to Kentucky. People like them tell people in Kentucky what to do or they tell people in Kentucky what they're going to sit back and take, or they tell people in Kentucky what they're supposed to like and support. And unfortunately, the boomers in Kentucky sit back and listen and take notes. Oh, yes, certainly, Mr. Paulson, sir, I will support the. You. You just give me an empty suit who repeats five Boomer slogans and that's all I need. I mean, that is demoralizing. However, it is encouraging to see that there's a generation of people who are not influenced by stuff like this, which means that maybe the future will be a little brighter than the present.
- [26:34]
Tom Woods
Hope so. Unless they get their censorship regime, you know, fully ensconced. That algorithm dictate anything? I'll be watching YouTube and be like, oh, yeah, the YouTube computer God used to show me this guy's stuff all the time. I totally forgot about him. Yeah, I can sign up, I can subscribe to whatever I want. It still only shows me whatever it wants to show me. You know, it's true. We do live in. In Francis E. Dec's paranoid fantasy now. Yes. So, yeah, now Massey is funny. I saw. I. I think you wrote about this too in your daily email. Maybe about this claim that, oh, Massey votes with the Democrats 90% of the time or something like that.
- [27:17]
Scott Horton
What are you out of your mind?
- [27:19]
Tom Woods
They had a commercial with. They did. Had AI do a Photoshop there and make it look like he was walking, holding hands with Elon Omar and an aoc.
- [27:27]
Scott Horton
Aoc.
- [27:29]
Tom Woods
But then, so, you know, like the. They do the community notes on X there. And the community. I was like, no, this guy has the most anti Democrat, anti Biden, anti Obama.
- [27:41]
Scott Horton
Yeah. It turns out, which I hadn't known until this, that he voted with Biden 1.8% of the time, which is the. The lowest amount anybody in the entire House voted with Biden. Like, that's a record. Nobody voted with Biden less often than Massey.
- [27:59]
Tom Woods
Yeah.
- [28:00]
Scott Horton
So it's basically. People have been just fed some crazy. So what. One of the things I said in one of my posts was go tell your grandmother the real truth about Massie and then drive her to the polling place.
- [28:10]
Tom Woods
Yeah, seriously. And you know, I can get it if you're just a Republican, you know, Fox News watching, sort of rank and file type that. You know, there's always been such a thing as a rhino. Right. A liberal Republican, a northeastern establishment liberal guy who's soft on guns and pro gay marriage and whatever this kind of thing. They're still nominally Republicans. They call them Republicans in name only when really they're sort of Ted Kennedy types. And then you just take that label and you can stick it on somebody who is essentially on almost everything to the right of the rest of the Republican Party.
- [28:47]
Scott Horton
And he's to the right of the people complaining about him.
- [28:50]
Tom Woods
Yeah. And then they go, yeah, see, that guy's a rhino because he's different from us and whatever. And then. So if you're just a regular consumer of that sloganeering, then I guess that kind of makes sense. They said that he voted the same way that the Democrats did. No. On some of the things that Trump wanted to do or whatever it was. And then the presumption is the president was doing the right thing, so this guy was doing the wrong thing to oppose it instead of, wow, Trump must have really been effing up if Massey wasn't willing to go along with it. Which if you know anything about the guy, should be the presumption going forward there. But it. And yeah, it is kind of demoralizing when like, come on, this guy's been in Congress for, I don't know, 12 years now or 16, 14 district, so they should know that, like, nah, man, I don't know what they're saying about him, but I know that I, at least I'm gonna give this guy the benefit of the doubt for a minute as like. And I'm not saying that I would do that really for any politician. He's probably the only guy that I respect that much in all of politicianhood, you know, in the country right now. I mean, it's not a matter of like, party or anything. It's just you can tell where the guy's at, where he's always been on this stuff. And in fact, you know, as a Ron Paul guy, I would say he's been getting better and better lately. Right.
- [30:01]
Scott Horton
Definitely.
- [30:01]
Tom Woods
For one of my frustrations with him was he always seemed to be sort of default anti war, but not very interested in foreign policy and not very interested in pushing his luck on the issue where. And maybe that was what kept him safe. He decided to finally stick his neck out on, of course, the very worst thing about America, our relationship with Israel, and they're coming for him over it. And, and so ironically, right where Miriam Adelson is literally an Israeli who married an American Jewish billionaire who is rich because he owns casinos in communist China. I mean, not really communist, but sort of kinda in Macau. And like. And this is who American conservative Christians answer to is an Israeli heiress of a chicom gambling fortune. This is crazy. Like, how in the world is this, the American system here? There's, you know, as Cooper was saying on your show, there's no force organized to prevent it. Maybe this was the, the, the interesting thing y' all were talking about, about how the Israeli lobby is able to get away now that the old, you know, skull and bones, isH, WASP, Rockefeller type establishment is gone. The only real organized establishment in America is the Israeli government.
- [31:15]
Scott Horton
Yeah.
- [31:16]
Tom Woods
Nobody else really has their act together enough to oppose them, you know.
- [31:20]
Scott Horton
Well, I had Daniel McAdams from the RON Paul Institute on sometime in the past week or two, and I asked him, and I'm going to ask you the same thing, if he had seen this. This video. And it seems like Miriam Adelson is at some Jewish conference every three days or something, and she's up on stage being interviewed by somebody. And this question was, what they were trying to do was get the audience, which is, of course, all sympathizers, to. To get more involved. And they were holding Miriam Adelson up, as, you know, the exemplar of getting involved. And what he was trying to say was, obviously you've written big checks, but there's more to it than just writing checks, like you've built relationships with people. And then he said, so I'd like you to share with our audience how is it that you come to have influence over American politicians? And her answer, Scott, was, is it all right if I don't answer? She said, I'd like to be truthful, but there's some things I prefer not to say now. And I said to Daniel, could you imagine an answer more designed to encourage conspiracy theories than that answer? So then Dave Smith texts me and says, well, where did you. I had. I have to see this video. Where did you get this clip of Mary Madison? So I sent him the link, but.
- [32:35]
Tom Woods
And she's.
- [32:36]
Scott Horton
I mean, so it's. So she's. She's written unbelievably large checks. She and her husband, when he was alive. And then she goes and gives answers like this. And then we have that clip of Trump asking her if she prefers Israel or the United States. She want to. She doesn't like answering questions, Scott. She doesn't like answering them.
- [32:54]
Tom Woods
I know. Yep. It's just as blatant as can be. And we all know the answer is bribes and blackmail. That's it. You know. And hell, as Snowden revealed, although the New York Times, the Washington Post, never ran it, it is in the Guardian, under Greenwald's byline, that the National Security Agency gives their entire hall to the Israelis every day. Everything they intercept, which is virtually everything in the world, they turn over to the Israelis. So, like my old bumper sticker I used to sell, was the National Security Agency blackmailing your congressman since 1952. That goes to the, to the Israelis as well. Everything that they have on your congressman, they give to the Israelis and the Israelis have on all of us. So, you know, as I was saying to Rogan in that interview, that, you know, if you were the Israeli regime, then you have one priority that outranks every other priority by a million, which is keeping America in line, keeping America available, keeping America compliant and America's political system under control. There's nothing else that matters to them. Without that, they're completely screwed. At the very least, it's their greatest insurance policy and it's much more important even than their relationship with the European states or anybody else. And so we can, but that means it's on us to tell them no, screw you, man.
- [34:20]
Scott Horton
Yeah.
- [34:21]
Tom Woods
This is our country, not yours.
- [34:22]
Scott Horton
Right, right. I, I, I want to mention something that, that our friend Clint Russell speculated on. I mean, it's, it, it, we can't prove it, but he certainly made me think so a couple of days ago there was some dumb, I mean, turned out to be nothing. There's some scandal involving Massey, and then you look at it, you say there's nothing to this especially.
- [34:44]
Tom Woods
Yeah, talk about that, please, would you?
- [34:46]
Scott Horton
Yeah, so it was so the, the gist of it was he was, you know, he was with some woman and she's claiming that because she broke up with him, he, you know, worked to get her fired from her congressional job. And, but, but she's speaking out of both sides of her mouth. And the, the, the congressional office that's involved said she had a 90 day probationary position. We didn't renew it, and we didn't renew it because of concerning behavior on her part, which is a diplomatic way of saying she's crazy, basically. So it was, it was stuff like this. And so anyway, so what we know now is that the, the woman's friend whom she mentioned by name in her quote unquote deposition has come out and said, well, look, I kind of know about the circumstances here. And her whole exaggerated story about Massie paying her hush money and whatever is all nonsense. Ma Massie gave her some money to help her with X, Y and Z, had nothing to do with any of this. She was complaining about the congressional office she was working in long before any of this stuff with Massey. So that has nothing to do with anything. And this is her own friend. This all happening one week before the election seems a little suspicious to me. So it's just one thing after another, turned out to be basically no big deal at all. But when it hit. All we heard was girlfriend hush money. What? You know, so. So it was demoralizing to his base temporarily. And so what happened was if you looked on the. The betting markets, all of a sudden you got Massey's line here, probability of winning, and it goes vertically downward, just straight down.
- [36:22]
Tom Woods
Right.
- [36:22]
Scott Horton
And so people like Dinesh d' Souza took like a screenshot of that and tweeted that out and said, I don't know if the charges are true, but I know that Massey's chances are tanking. Well, come to find out, Dinesh was paid to post that. And it became a big scandal on Twitter that Dinesh was paid to post that. I could assure you, you can pay me anything you want. I'll just pocket the money and do what I was going to do anyway. You know, like, I would never. I would never post something because somebody told me to say it. Yeah. So there's been a scandal about that.
- [36:55]
Tom Woods
When you can bet. What was going on on those betting markets, too? Was that design.
- [36:59]
Scott Horton
This is Clint's thing, money, right? Yeah. Is that a whole lot of money went into those, into those betting markets at that moment to produce that result to have the demoralizing effect. But the thing is, for that to continue, that's a big financial commitment. You'd have to really keep that going. And so now the betting markets have. Have stabilized again, and they have Massey having a greater chance of winning than losing. But so Clint's theory was that they did this as an opinion against, and, you know, not so much to turn people who were pro Massey into anti Massey people, because the story wasn't strong enough for that. It wasn't scandalous enough, but it was enough to confuse and demoralize people temporarily and then capitalize on that. I mean, it is unbelievable. These people are capable of. And then to watch the MAGA people whose own president has been subjected to crazy, wild accusations by crazy people, you know, they. They pretend like, well, this must be a big scandal, and we have to take everything with the utmost seriousness and not be the least bit suspicious and take everything at face value. Are you the same people who look the other way at all these other things from Trump? You know, and by the way, I agree with them. Those things were. I don't believe Trump raped somebody in the bathroom at Bergdorf's, one of the wealthiest people in the world, and he wants to have sex in a bathroom at Bergdorf's. I'm sorry, I don't believe it. I'm sorry, I don't believe that. That doesn't have the ring of truth to it at all. But, you know, and I'm not the biggest fan of Trump, but I look at that and I say that's probably a hit job. But they won't show that same courtesy to Massey, even though Massey defended Trump through two impeachments. And on the January 6th stuff, he never fell for any of that either. Yep. So it only goes one way with this guy.
- [38:53]
Tom Woods
Yep. Yep, exactly. Loyalty to him is always demanded, never return.
- [38:58]
Scott Horton
Yeah.
- [38:58]
Tom Woods
And, and look, I mean, we all know what they're pissed off about is he's against foreign aid, Israel, and he pushed to release the Epstein files.
- [39:05]
Scott Horton
Right. It's not because. Yeah. They're not worried about his, his position on farm subsidies. You know, any other position they disagree with him on, they would overlook that in a heartbeat. I mean, the fact that Trump was even saying to Fetterman, the, the senator from, From. From Pennsylvania that I'll endorse you like crazy if you become a Republican, goes to show everything's negotiable except Israel, because Fetterman is terrible on everything. And they would accept it all.
- [39:30]
Tom Woods
Yep. Well, I still think Massey's going to win. Man. I don't know.
- [39:35]
Scott Horton
I, I do, too. I, I mean, I mean, knock on wood, I do, too, but it's close enough that you can't be complacent. And then today, Alex Jones tweeted out, well, now Massie's got a 28 point lead. And what he means is the, that the, the prediction markets are way up in Massey's favor. He does not have a 28 point lead. And we have to make sure we're not saying stuff like that because then it'll sound like, oh, he's going to run away with it, I guess. We don't need to work. We are not out of the woods on this. We have to fight this thing. So I actually corrected Alex Jones on Twitter and said, you have to clarify this. Don't go around saying he has a 20. He's not going to win by 28 points, even though, I mean, there'd be nothing better than that, Scott.
- [40:16]
Tom Woods
That's part of how Hillary Clinton lost, was telling everybody it's so in the bag, you don't even need to bother voting because somebody else is going to do it for you.
- [40:23]
Scott Horton
Yeah, no, you have to. You have to act as if it's the. And by the way, the left is
- [40:29]
Tom Woods
usually pretty good on this information carefully.
- [40:33]
Scott Horton
But I mean, really, the left is really good on this. Like, in terms of fundraising, they Always act as if, you know, we're one year away from the Nazi party taking over and the Ku Klux Klan coming back and what. And meanwhile, they've won every major cultural battle for the past 50 years. And they portray it as. Whereas the Republicans are just the opposite. You know, like Republican radio hosts write books about why we're winning when actually you're getting routed every turn.
- [41:01]
Tom Woods
Right. All right, man, let's do some super chats.
- [41:05]
Scott Horton
All right, let's do that. So I, I don't have it up on my screen, so you read them to me.
- [41:09]
Tom Woods
Okay, I got it all going here. First of all, this is the Scott Horton flavored coffee sponsored part of the super chat part of the show here. I think that's how you're supposed to do that. Moon dose Artisan coffees. Get it? They hate Starbucks because Starbucks supports the war party. So they're moon dose artisan coffee saying they're really good. And you can get Scott Horton flavored coffee. Go to Scott Horton.org SL Coffee Scott Horton.org Coffee Resap that QR code there on the screen and you get some really good coffee. And me and Daryl get a little bit of a kickback and I get free coffee to drink, which is a really important part of my budget. So help support my coffee dealer Phil Pepin and his Great Coffee Company Moondo Artisan coffees. Go to Scott Horton.org Coffee and then also next week I am going to the Libertarian Party National Convention and I'll be giving a couple of speeches, but one of them is going to be on Sunday and is going to have me and I'm not sure if this is the best flyer to post or not, is going to be me, Dan McKnight, Aaron Day and who else is on there? I was gonna say. Oh, and Garland Nixon. That's interesting. And but more importantly, Joe Kent is going to be headlining our event. Oh, another. Okay, that's good machine. Yeah. Joe Kent, formerly the head of counterterrorism in the second Trump term, who resigned over the Iran war, is going to be there. And so that is the, the dang old in Grand Rapids, Michigan is where it is. And that is, you know, starting next Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And especially, you know, Mises caucus delegates, but all kind of delegates, especially, you know, isolationist ones on foreign policy. If you got nominated to, to go or, or named a delegate to go to the convention, please show up because there's going to be a big fight over the International association of Libertari, which is run by a guy directly connected to the National Democratic Institute and the gross revolutionaries in Georgia. And you can't make this stuff up. So you got, you know, the right wing of the Soros movement, I guess the libertarian wing of the George Soros regime change industry trying to infiltrate the goddamn Libertarian Party. So everybody who's going to not allow that to happen needs to show up and make sure that that does not happen. So thank you for your attention to this matter. We will see you there. And so now, yeah, the super chats, man, we got a bunch of them. Lots of people said nice things about me on Rogan. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate that very much. This guy says, Daryl, vote Andy briner for your U.S. congress seat. Well, Daryl ain't here and I don't know who that is, but maybe he's a decent guy up there in Idaho somewhere. Evening, Scott. Tom. Hope you're doing well. I'm visiting Rothbard's grave tomorrow, says Mike, Libertarian. Wow. Well, that is very nice.
- [43:50]
Scott Horton
I've never done that.
- [43:52]
Tom Woods
Interesting, Michael.
- [43:54]
Scott Horton
I've walked by his apartment building in Manhattan, which is on 88th street in Broadway, by the way.
- [43:59]
Tom Woods
Oh, yeah, you showed me that. Right?
- [44:01]
Scott Horton
Yeah, and I showed Keith Knight that.
- [44:03]
Tom Woods
Oh, right, right, right.
- [44:04]
Scott Horton
Yeah. I pulled him away from a conference to. To go down like 10 blocks and say that's where Rothbard lived.
- [44:10]
Tom Woods
Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. So let's see. Michael says he saw the Rogan appearance and it was good, he says, pouring out for the fallen Dr. Pepper that lost its life on the Rogan episode. It was just a little bit. The can was almost empty. I should have it over by my right hand, though. That's how I usually do, is live and learn, right? Yep. And then let's see. Northern Maine, longtime anti war supporter, martyr made subscriber, and Tom woods, listener. Thank you, sir, for the 10 bucks there, Tom. Sound is much lower. Well, we fixed that, I think. Here we go. Now we just need Scott back for that OKC discussion, says Patrick Pillow there. Libertarian Overwatch. I agree with that. Congratulations from Eskimo Joe. Thank you, sir. And let's see. Dang fucking things. Let's see.
- [45:03]
Scott Horton
Can I sit while you're taking a drink? Can I. Can I tell you something? I sent an email to one of my mailing lists today and it was. Subject line was Scott Horton on Joe Rogan. I knew that would get people open. And I said, it finally happened. We've been waiting for years. Scott was on there. And then I said, the listeners of that show are going to get two and a half hours of Scott Horton. But you are going to get a full week of Scott Horton if you come on the cruise because Scott's coming with me.
- [45:27]
Tom Woods
There you go.
- [45:28]
Scott Horton
That's not a bad transition in that email.
- [45:30]
Tom Woods
That's some pretty good marketing on your part. See how my book sales are doing. Yeah, maybe they'll reflect my great success on the, on the YouTube tomorrow. All right, so let's see. This guy says Scott, please have. Oh, this was the 911 one. Yeah, we saw that. This one said have any advice on how to get Austin Padgett to agree to accept an obey with me? I want to crystal that clown after accusing Paul of Israel's. You know, this is just. I think that that guy is best ignored. He's most well known for being married to a lady who accomplished something. I don't know why anyone should have to suffer listening to him.
- [46:14]
Scott Horton
Yeah, I don't think it does any good. Just ignore.
- [46:17]
Tom Woods
Yeah, yeah, dude, pay him no attention. What's wrong? Latest bears poll has the rate at has the race at 50.6 to 49.4 OI in favor of Massey. That could be a better spread. But turnout will decide the race. The youth will carry Massey. It's going to be close.
- [46:33]
Scott Horton
Yeah, but that scares me. The youth will carry Massey. They said that about other candidates too. And the youth were going to carry Bernie Sanders. The youth get drunk and don't show up is the problem. Whereas the. The boomers are going to vote if it is the last thing they do.
- [46:48]
Tom Woods
Yep. It's funny because the boomers, weren't they supposed to be hippies? But man, they're so.
- [46:55]
Scott Horton
Oh, I wish if they were just hippies, they'd drop out and leave us alone.
- [46:58]
Tom Woods
I know. Seriously, go out to the farm, reconnect with nature.
- [47:02]
Scott Horton
Well, I can see this comment and I appreciate it. It's a nice word of thanks for to you and me.
- [47:06]
Tom Woods
Very nice, very nice.
- [47:08]
Scott Horton
Thank you.
- [47:08]
Tom Woods
Yes. It's about how me and you been like this for a long time. Yeah. Which we have. So. Okay, well that's all the ones who are willing to pay. Oh, here's one more, lads. Can a true alliance be made with Russia even with POTUS gung ho yet all the think tanks having the idea of preferring Balkanization theft. Well, I would not suggest that we should have any kind of alliance with anybody and particularly the Russians. I guess we don't need to take their side, but we should definitely be backing off and trying to get along as best as possible. I think the all the claims about Russian revanchism are overblown. Did I say that right?
- [47:47]
Scott Horton
That's how I hear it said, yeah.
- [47:49]
Tom Woods
I mean, as Victoria Nuland admitted, they're like, eh, actually, turns out Russia's kind of a paper tiger. Look how much trouble they're having just taking Eastern Ukraine. They're not even talking about taking Western Ukraine, much less, oh, then they're marching to Romania and Poland and Germany and France. Come on, they're not doing none of that. So if even Victoria Newland can dismiss the danger of Russian military power after all, then I think we can agree with that, since it confirms our bias in this case. If you guys get the hantavirus on the cruise, Tim Dillon will have Pete Hegseth blow you up. That is probably a real danger. We should look out for that. Which, by the way, I'm no doctor, a Titian or anything, but I thought that you only can get hantavirus if a rat pisses on your coke can or something rather than getting it, you know, passing it between people. Right? Or not.
- [48:40]
Scott Horton
I haven't looked into it at all. I refuse, I refuse to know anything about it. It's my attitude this time around.
- [48:48]
Tom Woods
I didn't look at it this time. Only know that from before where they were like, yeah, this lady died and they couldn't figure out what happened. It was. It turned out a rat had pissed on her coke can. She was out at the lake enjoying a nice Coca Cola classic in the sunshine with her family, it turned out, had this terrible virus on it. And I was like, God dang, I hope you know, I always like, spit on the top of my coke can and kind of wipe it down a little bit ever since then. But that was a long time ago. So I don't know if that actually helps kill viruses probably, but, you know, I don't know. Well, you guys, what's your favorite comments? We still got 10 minutes left.
- [49:24]
Scott Horton
Give me, give me. But, well, while we're waiting for that, when you look back on, you know, obviously you've had like high profile appearances, high profile debates. Sometimes you've just been on a panel on Piers Morgan and you're up against several different people. Is there any one of these that stands out to you that you're just so proud of and satisfied with, and you really, really nailed it and you got your opinion out there and maybe you smashed a bad guy in the process. Is there one that really stands out?
- [49:53]
Tom Woods
Yeah, I mean, I guess the Bill Crystal one is the big one because it was a person and everybody cheering for me and all that stuff.
- [49:59]
Scott Horton
Yeah, the.
- [50:00]
Tom Woods
I like the Wesley Clark ones because he's just got nothing. He represents basically the best of the war party. And yes, it's no good.
- [50:08]
Scott Horton
And he treats you with respect.
- [50:10]
Tom Woods
Yeah.
- [50:11]
Scott Horton
He speaks to you. He doesn't. He doesn't. He's not contemptuous toward you.
- [50:15]
Tom Woods
Yeah. The one I kind of regret is the Neil Ferguson. Just because I hate that son of a so much.
- [50:21]
Scott Horton
And your contempt for him was so
- [50:23]
Tom Woods
obvious, and I knew that that was gonna happen. And in fact, I think I'd just been arguing with some horrible SOB on Twitter about something. And so before I went on with Neil Ferguson, I called a friend and, like, sat there and smoked a bowl of weed and, like, tried to chill out a little bit. Hey, buddy, I'm about to go on and debate this horrible guy and I'm in a really bad mood. So I'm trying to, like, I'm just gonna chill out a little bit here and talk to my friend for a second before I do. And then. Didn't help.
- [50:49]
Scott Horton
This didn't help.
- [50:51]
Tom Woods
Well, and like, on my first answer, the moderator interrupted me after I made one point. He's like, so what is your case? I made one point. He goes, okay, let's stop right there and let Neil Ferguson talk now. And then he immediately goes, oh, these are Russian talking points. I just want to smack his stupid bitch face. And then so I just acted like that immediately. But like, yeah, dude, hate Neil Ferguson. He should have died in the Iraq war in a horrible bloody death and didn't, unfortunately, and is still here. But I could have handled that better. But I still completely beat his ass. He had no facts and I destroyed him. Even though it was two on one with his pathetic Hoover institution pal trying to jump in and save him. The whole time I'm talking, the moderator's going, but trying to just stop me from winning, which I did anyway. Punk. I pushed that Neil Ferguson right down the stairs if I ever saw him. It would be hilarious. But yeah, so they probably shouldn't have put me in a debate with him. But anyway, yeah, the rest of them are basically the same. You know, it's. You know, it's just like in your intro, man, they got this 3 by 5 index card of allowable opinion, and everybody who's part of the discussion already agrees on all those facts. So I just go in as I say, well, that's not true. And then I bring up other things. John Bolton says, well, we should arm balooky dissidents. And I go, yeah, but he means Jandala the same guys at Barack Obama back that did the head choppings and the suicide bombings back in 2012 or whatever, you know, and then so I get to ruin their little presupposition because I actually already know more about it than they do. And so that's how I usually.
- [52:35]
Scott Horton
So the significance of having you and also having Dave on big shows is that without you guys, that perspective does not appear. It's. The debate still, even in 2026, is still basically taking place in a very narrow range. And you, in the tradition of Ron Paul, show up and refuse to play by those rules. And you say, well, what about this? You've left out this, this entire possibility. What if we thought about it this way? And, and the way that you then proceed to argue is to give evidence that the interventions in the past have been disastrous and that everything that they're confidently pronouncing now has either been tried or would be a catastrophe or is based on half truths or whatever. No one else is going to do that. And so I, I consider it like if, if somebody says, I, you know, I don't like Dave Smith as a commentator, I immediately think, well, this person doesn't understand anything. You know, you should, you should be cheering for Dave because without Dave, there is. This side's not represented. And like Piers Morgan likes Dave because yes, he's quick on his feet and he brings numbers, but also because without Dave or Scott Horton, frankly, this perspective is absent. And I'm really glad that finally, because of the decentralization of media, we actually have a chance to have. We force these people to acknowledge our existence and acknowledge the existence of a way of thinking that they would like to pretend is not there. But it is there.
- [54:11]
Tom Woods
Yep. In fact, I'm real grateful for Pierce Morgan for that, for giving me opportunity to get on there in that way,
- [54:17]
Scott Horton
because he was very gracious. He was, I think he was genuinely happy to meet you in person in London.
- [54:24]
Tom Woods
And look, you know, as I was saying to Joe Rogan on the show that back in the W. Bush or the Obama years, the idea that we would be allowed to be on CNN and debate with these guys in a place where it really matters was just unheard of. But we can go on never. And his show is bigger than any CNN show or whatever, so it's equivalent and then some to being allowed on tv. And like John Bolton, I should have said this on Piers Morgan, that the Young Americans for Liberty asked John Bolton to debate me years ago, and his people responded with, John Bolton will not Be debating Scott Horton. And so I should have said haha, yeah, because he's afraid of me, because I'll whoop his ass up and down in front of everybody like I'm about to do right now after he's done and it's our turn to talk. And then what I do, I we sat there three or four different points of things that John Bolton said. I got to pick on him for it now he has no solution for how to solve this problem. He talks about arming these dissident groups, but he's talking about Kurdish communists and Baluki suicide bombers and well, all these things like whatever. He can't withstand this kind of scrutiny. And so somehow, you know, it's not equivalent. He was the national Security advisor, he was the Deputy Secretary of State for Arms control and prevention and whatever. So it's not that I'm his peer, he's like from AEI or whatever, but I'm peer enough that I can be right after him on Pierce Morgan show and contradict all the things that he said. And so that is a new invention in, in American media or British whatever media. And, and it is effective. I mean this was the same dynamic that we would see on the Kennedy show. And I, I really am sorry that I got her fired. I'm sure it was my fault because I would cross the line and say stuff that was a little too much for Fox Business. But when she would have us on there, be me or Dave or Spike Cohen, oftentimes even Hannah Cox and some of those other libertarians, like whenever there's a libertarian on that show versus the Democratic consultant and the Republican consultant, we just destroy them. Right. Like the, they'd have Corey, what's his name, the, the school choice guy.
- [56:30]
Scott Horton
Oh, Dean. DeAngelis.
- [56:31]
Tom Woods
DeAngelis, yes, yes, of course.
- [56:33]
Scott Horton
Good guy.
- [56:33]
Tom Woods
I'm sorry, Corey, forgive me for spacing on your name or like any of us, anytime we be on there, watch Spike Cohen on there versus anyone. And he just completely destroys them. Dave Smith too, or me or whoever. And because we just have that advantage, we just know so much more about it. We care so much more about it. We already thought so hard about how both sides are wrong. So oftentimes then we can make like a funny quip about how, well, at least you're not as wrong as that guy about this same thing or whatever kind of thing, you know, about the contradictions and all that. So yeah, I think if we have the platform, it should be advantage us. And you know, like if Mike Baker wanted to debate Me on the Joe Rogan show or something like that. I'd be happy to do that. I think I'd be just fine, you know, like, former foreign policy guy, meet new foreign policy guy. And let's see, you know, comes down to it at the part where he resorts to, no, they just hate us. Well, I got more answers than that. I don't have to stop at a cliche. I got extra things. I read so.
- [57:29]
Scott Horton
Well, that thing about Bolton not being willing to debate you kind of brings us full circle, because one of the distinguishing features of Ed Gallrein is his refusal to debate Thomas Massie.
- [57:41]
Tom Woods
Right.
- [57:41]
Scott Horton
And when you ask him about that in person, because he finally. I think it was starting to be an embarrassment that he was running a Biden in the basement campaign. So he started to have a few public events, but then, you know, it's like 11 silver hairs show up, and that's it. But people would ask him, why won't you debate Massie? And his answer, I'm not kidding you. His answer is, oh, I'm debating him right now. Yeah, but see, we don't mean, like, in a cutesy, weird way. We mean, like, he's here, you're there, and you guys are answering the same questions, you know, so he won't do that. And so what's interesting is all these people attacking Massie on Twitter, almost none of them even mention Gall Rhine's name because they know it's embarrassing, because they know the strategy was, we're going to hide this guy away. We're going to be as ambiguous about his positions as possible. We're definitely not going to debate, and we're just going to let the millions of dollars do their work and see if that does the trick. And, I mean, I don't care who you are, you have to know that is a pussy way of running a campaign. And it's. It's embarrassing. And so they don't even mention his name. They don't even mention his name. They just don't like Massey. Yeah, well, who's your guy? Tell me about your guy. You know, the guy who doesn't even have a hundred Kentucky donors, you know, Tell me about your guy.
- [58:53]
Tom Woods
Yeah, and, you know, they could try to hype up, well, he was a Ranger, or whatever, but they don't even really try to push that stuff. I guess he just doesn't.
- [59:01]
Scott Horton
Yeah, I don't know why it's. It does. I mean, he. He know he was a Navy seal. I mean, they have that, but he was.
- [59:05]
Tom Woods
I thought he's a Ranger.
- [59:06]
Scott Horton
Yeah, he's a Navy seal. But I mean, yeah, I mean, but once you say that, then you realize you got nothing left.
- [59:11]
Tom Woods
Yeah. Tar. You guys with him? All right, more super chats. What do you call a Federation flagship with no Klingon bridge officer? Completely worthless. Boo. Oh, waiters. That was for you. Let's see, this guy says nice guy. Still have those five Provoke books you sent me for free? Was that just a mistake? Because you ordered one pre order, and then I just couldn't stop sending them to you out of duplication things. We'll drop them off at your local libraries. People need those, man. Okay, here we go. This one's more for you, I think. Tom, what are the most essential, less known Rothbard and Hoppa books y' all recommend I've got?
- [59:50]
Scott Horton
Okay, well, if you have 17 of them already, chances are you can have the ones that I recommend, but that I know of.
- [59:56]
Tom Woods
Rothbard, that was. That was kind of the. The latest publication by him was the. Oh, God, now I can't think of it. The one with the glasses on the front, that was his essays that he wrote for that San Francisco paper or something.
- [60:11]
Scott Horton
Oh, I know what you mean. No, was it. Was it what he wrote for the Rothbard Rockwell Report?
- [60:17]
Tom Woods
I don't think so.
- [60:18]
Scott Horton
The Rothbard Rockwell Report. Essays of a Good Time had by
- [60:21]
Tom Woods
all or some kind of.
- [60:22]
Scott Horton
What's it called, Dude? Okay, I don't know that one.
- [60:24]
Tom Woods
That was not. Well, you.
- [60:26]
Scott Horton
But I'll say.
- [60:27]
Tom Woods
Find it. You. You say something.
- [60:28]
Scott Horton
All right, so I'll talk a little bit. So the Case against the Fed is a great book title, but I don't think it's that strong of a book compared to his lesser known book, the Mystery of Banking. I think the Mystery of Banking is a better, more thorough book. You'll understand it better. The Case against the Fed is so short. I think he wanted to do a short little overview, but I think it suffers for being so short in that particular case. So I do like the Mystery of Banking. I like Economic Controversies because I also like the academic side of Rothbard. Not just the popular side, although I love that, but the academic side. Economic Controversies is a collection of his most important published scholarly articles. And what's interesting about them is they're refreshingly clearly written. You know, a lot of academic articles, shall we say, are, you know, clarity is not what they're known for. Whereas you can read an academic article by Rothbard and, you know, if you're reasonably educated, you can understand it without any Real problem. So there's that. What did you want to go get? Did you remember it?
- [61:31]
Tom Woods
Find it.
- [61:31]
Scott Horton
But.
- [61:32]
Tom Woods
Oh, I'll talk about this one while I Google it. This one is fantastic. This is a little monograph. You could read the whole thing online.
- [61:39]
Scott Horton
Oh, is it? I. I can't see it. Well, but is it. Is it the one about foreign policy and, And Wall street and stuff?
- [61:45]
Tom Woods
Wall street banks and American foreign policy.
- [61:47]
Scott Horton
And Justin Raimondo wrote a forward to it, I think.
- [61:49]
Tom Woods
Yeah. And I think it has. No, it has. The introduction is by Anthony Gregory and then the afterward is by Justin Romano, I think.
- [61:58]
Scott Horton
Okay.
- [61:59]
Tom Woods
It's really great. You know what it is? It's like the John Birch Society conspiracy theory history of the 20th century, the Morgans and the Rockefellers and the world wars, only as Murray Rothbard instead of John McManus.
- [62:10]
Scott Horton
But my understanding of that is that they found that. So it's like an extremely long essay that they published as a small book.
- [62:18]
Tom Woods
Right.
- [62:18]
Scott Horton
But they found that, I think posthumously. And it was in some investment newsletter he had written for, you know, some small circulation investment newsletter. He writes this, you know, magisterial tract about Wall street banks and American foreign policy in an investment newsletter where it's. It's. It's gone, it's forgotten, it's lost. No one's ever going to find it again. So they pull it out and said, no, this needs to be published. Like, people need to read this thing. He's. He's incredible. Of course, there is the book. I. I wrote the introduction to it, the Betrayal of the American Right, which is semi autobiographical about his own intellectual trajectory, which is very worth reading because it's also kind of a history of the old. Right. So that's worth reading. That was a manuscript that had been around for decades and he'd been working on it, passing it around, getting thoughts about it, and then finally it was published not too terribly long after he died. And I had always wanted to read. I'd heard rumors that it existed. And then I got a chance to actually do the, you know, whatever, little tiny edits and then write an introduction for it. That was pretty good.
- [63:21]
Tom Woods
I'm just kicking myself. I can't even find it on Amazon. The latest one, it's blue and it has just glasses on the front, just like.
- [63:29]
Scott Horton
I know the glasses. I do, but I can't think of that because I think, you know, it's. Again, it was after his death and it's a collection, isn't it?
- [63:35]
Tom Woods
Yeah, yeah. It was a collection of lost essays and it was only published, like, within the last. Definitely within the last 10 years.
- [63:43]
Scott Horton
Oh, no, classified. I'm trying to think of what Found
- [63:48]
Tom Woods
it, like, was Strictly Confidential.
- [63:50]
Scott Horton
Strictly Confidential. The Volker Fund Memos. That is a great book.
- [63:55]
Tom Woods
Yeah, but that's different, though.
- [63:57]
Scott Horton
No, it's. It is different, but. But I'm. I'm glad we thought of it, because you won't think to read this book. It's called Strictly Confidential. So when Rothbard was younger, the Volcker Fund, which had the Volcker Fund, paid Mises salary when he was at nyu. So it was a bunch of businessmen who wanted to use some of their spare money to fund libertarian and Austrian economic thought. And one of the things they asked him to do was to write book reviews. Like, you know, new books come out, you know, give us a critique. And he's got an essay in there about some American history book. And he goes on and on and, like, I specialize in this material. And he is critiquing it on a level that I could not dream of doing. And it is an absolute pleasure to read. And these were not meant to be read by more than three or four people, and now you have a chance to read them. So the book is called Strictly Confidential, the William Folker Fund Essays of Murray Rothbard. Something like that.
- [64:52]
Tom Woods
Yeah.
- [64:54]
Scott Horton
Now, for Hoppe, obviously, everybody reads Democracy the God that Failed, but the two books of his that I read first were the Economics and Ethics of Private Property and A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism. Those are not to be overlooked.
- [65:09]
Tom Woods
Right. All right, so I got Eric answering me here. He says, yes, I had an intro by Justin. Had an intro by Justin. See if he can remember the title of the dang thing. It's driving me nuts. And I don't know what I did with it because I saw it when I was unpacking here and it should be in my Murray Rothbard section up there, which I have another kind of Murray Rothbard section here, don't I? All right, well, next to my Tom Wood section, you can see. Right. It's not one of these, though. I don't know what I do with it anyways. Well, what the hell.
- [65:40]
Scott Horton
Well, I'm making one last check. Is. Are there any other questions?
- [65:43]
Tom Woods
Oh, let's see here. What do we got? Ask Pierce Morgan if Winston Churchill was an anti Semite. I'll try to bring that up next time I'm there. Ryan McMaken was on Lotus Eaters the other day. I don't know what that is, but I like Ryan McMaken. This guy says he liked the appearance on the Tucker Show. That was a lot of fun, man. Oh, yeah, me and him are buds now. Neil Ferguson. It's pronounced Neil.
- [66:09]
Scott Horton
Yeah.
- [66:10]
Tom Woods
Is nearly as ridiculous as his wife. And that is really saying something considering how she's hardly even a human being. Just a mascot, sort of a sock puppet of the anti Islamic right in America. Need to demonize all Muslims so they can justify Israel murdering some of them and stealing all their property. It's really embarrassing for them. Scott, regarding your comment last week, N. Never underestimate your efficiency. We should all spar to end wars. Even it's worth it, even if a single innocent life is saved. Well, thank you for that. I try not to aim too high. That way I'm not disappointed. But I trying to at least, as I was saying last week, at least show up. Be a place where people can find the truth if they're looking for it. Did I see Gad sad the other day on Joe Rogan? Yes, yes. I didn't know, but I saw Dave Smith's review of it where he played some clips and yeah, it was pretty ridiculous. He did. Like the former Libertarian Walter Block tries to just. Anytime you make any point about Israel killing people, they always just resort to some insane, you know, cliched analogy that makes no sense whatsoever. So, like, okay, maybe the CIA overthrew the government of Iran and installed a fascist dictatorship, but then, like, you're saying that that led to consequences. Well, that's like blaming Barry White for a guy who, you know. Because people have sex and then have a baby and then that baby grows up to commit a crime. Yeah. Okay. Zionism. Man, you guys really suck at making arguments. I guess that's why you have to just murder people and steal their property and not even bother trying to argue your case. Well, I cast a magic spell. It says I can do whatever I want. Oh, okay. That's very impressive. The youth don't drink anymore. Tom. This guy says I don't know what. That's a reference.
- [68:02]
Scott Horton
I. Well, I. Yeah, well, there's. There's data that shows that, like weed use and alcohol use.
- [68:09]
Tom Woods
That's the book. Thanks, Mr. All capital letters guy. I couldn't find it. That is.
- [68:15]
Scott Horton
Well, I went to the Mises Institute's page of Rothbard books. And? And they didn't have it on there.
- [68:21]
Tom Woods
Yeah, what's the deal? This guy says we're nerds.
- [68:24]
Scott Horton
Bear there it is. Never a dull moment. A libertarian look at the 60s and it's got glasses and a bow tie.
- [68:30]
Tom Woods
What did I say? A good time was had by all.
- [68:34]
Scott Horton
Close enough. Something like that. I knew that it should have been titled that.
- [68:38]
Tom Woods
Now leave me alone.
- [68:40]
Scott Horton
I would have been better hell out of here.
- [68:41]
Tom Woods
Thank you, Tom, for sitting in for Daryl. I had a great time, buddy.
- [68:44]
Scott Horton
Yeah, it was great. My pleasure, Scott. Thanks for having me.
- [68:47]
Tom Woods
All right, you guys hang tight and I'll click the outro. This has been provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton. Be sure to like, like and subscribe to help us beat the propaganda algorithm. Go follow at ProvokedShow on X and YouTube and tune in next time for more provoked.
- [69:22]
Scott Horton
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Tom Woods
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Scott Horton
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