Proxy with Yowei Shaw — "JC's Kids Won't Talk To Her"

Release Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Yowei Shaw | Reporter: Kim Nadervane Petersa
Guests: Chess Dugas (YouTuber, estranged adult child), JC (anonymous estranged parent), Dr. Josh Coleman (estrangement therapist)

Episode Overview

This episode of Proxy dives deeply into the emotionally fraught terrain of family estrangement, focusing specifically on the painful phenomenon of adult children cutting off contact with their parents. Host Yowei Shaw, with reporter Kim Nadervane Petersa, brings together Chess Dugas, a YouTuber who has estranged herself from her parents, and JC, a parent whose children have cut her off, for a facilitated conversation seeking mutual understanding. Their candid, raw exchange (mediated by therapist Josh Coleman) highlights the roles of misunderstanding, unmet emotional needs, and the ambiguous, shifting nature of estrangement. The episode also explores how connecting with "proxies"—people with shared but opposing experiences—can help illuminate and shift deeply entrenched patterns.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Estrangement in the Zeitgeist

• Approximately 1 in 10 people in the US have experienced parent–child estrangement.
• Support communities for both estranged children and parents exist online but rarely interact directly.
• The episode aims to bridge this divide via facilitated dialogue.

[08:02] Yowei Shaw: "I'm talking about estrangement, specifically kids cutting off their parents. In the US, estrangement is actually quite common. About 1 in 10 people are estranged from either a parent or child."

2. JC's Story: A Parent’s Pain and Confusion

• JC describes her earnest desire to parent well after coming from a traumatic background, but her children have cut off contact for reasons she finds unclear.
• Recounts repeated but unsuccessful attempts at reconciliation, including mediation and years of trying to address concerns.

[12:02] JC: "You know, I would want to ask them now...please tell me again, because maybe I didn't hear clearly enough the first time. And I think if a reconciliation were ever possible, that’s what I would look toward as I would want to know more."

3. Chess’s Story: The Adult Child’s Perspective

• Chess grew up lacking emotional warmth, feeling unwanted and always criticized.
• After setting boundaries and uncovering deeper family issues, any efforts to communicate her pain were dismissed or ignored, leading to estrangement.
• She describes feeling responsible for her mother's happiness, a burden she could not carry.

[23:42] Chess Dugas: "I don’t have any memories that they actually really, to be honest, that they like me...it all seems to be about this is what families do and these are our roles."

[18:00] Chess Dugas: "I feel like I hold my mom's, like, happiness in my hands, and I don't want that. I can't divorce them. How do I get...how do I stop this?"

4. Mutual Misunderstanding and the Need to Be Heard

• Both JC and Chess express pain at not being understood: JC by her children; Chess by her parents.
• JC tries to articulate how difficult it is to let go, even respecting boundaries requested by her kids.

[28:10] JC: "It was just a way to have a little bit of contact while I gave up all the other contact that they wanted me to give up. And so I think the excruciating part is this last filament of connection is no longer viable."

• Chess explains how gifts and cards from her mother feel like violations of her boundaries, not acts of love.

[28:59] Chess Dugas: "I’ve never felt that sincerity from her, ever...Am I somehow flawed? Am I this cold, robotic, evil person that can’t see her love?...But also, I hate getting gifts, full stop."

5. What Would it Take for Reconciliation?

• The conversation delves into the specifics of what acknowledgment or change might make reconciliation possible, such as true listening or explicit validation.

[31:07] JC: "If your mother sent you a letter and said, ‘I realize I don’t know you at all, please tell me anything you want me to know about you or your life or your values, I will just listen...’ Would that be helpful?"

[31:28] Chess Dugas: "Yeah, that would be helpful. Totally."

6. Therapeutic Reflection and Roleplay

• Dr. Josh Coleman reframes the issue of obligation, arguing that neither party "owes" a continued relationship, but they do owe one another due diligence and honest attempts at communication.

[33:09] Josh Coleman: "I don’t think either parents or adult children owe the other a relationship. I do think that both sides owe the other a kind of due diligence...But I don’t feel that adult children are obligated to keep trying no matter what..."

• A deeply emotional roleplay session has Chess and JC, each playing the other's estranged relative, voicing honesty, regret, and longing for validation.

[42:28] JC (as Chess’s mom): "I am hearing maybe for the first time how very sad this has made you. And I’m so sorry that I missed such major pieces of being a good mom to you."

[43:11] Chess Dugas: "That was lovely, actually. That was really lovely...if I'd ever been able to hear anything like that throughout my childhood...maybe even now, it would make so much difference."

7. The Fluidity of Estrangement and Reaching for Peace

• Both participants acknowledge estrangement as a sometimes fluid, evolving process—not always as final as it feels.
• Chess expresses a new confidence: she can reach out on her own terms, knowing she’ll be okay whatever the response.

[48:25] Chess Dugas: "I feel like estrangement is a fluid thing. I really do...for me, it's just where I'm at right now."

[59:46] Chess Dugas: "Yeah, me taking that power back, taking that strength back and saying, actually this is my perspective. And yeah, I understand that we all have...everyone has their own. But at some point, if we’re going to go anywhere, then we have to acknowledge at least each other's perspectives on things."

8. Impact and Aftermath: New Openings

• The conversation inspired Chess to make a shift in her YouTube channel, inviting estranged parents into the discussion for the first time—a move met with controversy but also hope.

[54:10] Chess Dugas: "I can see that it happens both ways...There's a big spectrum in the estrangement world."

• For JC, the encounter gave her “a flicker of hope” and helped her look outward, supporting others in need of a parental figure.
• Chess decides to finally reach out to her parents—but this time on her own terms, demanding that her perspective be acknowledged.

[56:45] Chess Dugas: "Afterwards, I did end up writing to my parents...I did write to my mom and just say, okay, I really do want this to be constructive. I’m not trying to, you know, be antagonistic...if you want to move forward, we really need to address these big things that I brought up..."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On emotional ambiguity:

  [20:29] Kim Nadervane Petersa: “Sometimes that can mean sitting with some ambiguity, and that will definitely be the case here. All right, back to Chess…”

• On the unique pain of estrangement:

  [22:56] Chess Dugas: “But there was no emotional comfort that I ever remember. The emotions that I remember feeling as a child were fear and being wrong and being criticized and being judged and being, being unwanted...”

• On the futility of obligatory love:

  [36:06] JC (Anonymous Estranged Parent): "I don't really want people to love me because they're obligated. I really aspire to relationships that are different than that..."

• On the experience of validation through role-play:

  [43:11] Chess Dugas: "That was lovely, actually...I think if I'd ever been able to hear anything like that throughout my childhood or at any time, maybe even now, it would make so much difference."

• On the hope for fluidity and possible change:

  [48:25] Chess Dugas: "I feel like estrangement is a fluid thing...for me, it's just where I'm at right now."

Important Timestamps

• 08:00 — Yowei Shaw introduces the problem of parent–child estrangement and sets the stage.
• 12:00–15:00 — JC explains her story and her children’s estrangement.
• 18:00–24:00 — Chess shares her experience of emotional neglect and eventual estrangement from her parents.
• 28:00–30:00 — Chess and JC discuss the meaning and impact of boundaries and gift-giving.
• 31:00–34:00 — What could create the possibility of reconciliation? Exploring what would feel sincere.
• 39:30–43:50 — Deep roleplay between Chess and JC, each voicing what they need to hear.
• 50:52–54:10 — Aftermath: Chess discusses her own feelings after the experience and changes to her channel.
• 56:45–58:28 — Chess describes her decision to reach out to her parents, motivated by new confidence.
• 59:32–59:46 — Chess shares how her parents now hold less power over her.

Takeaways

• Estrangement is deeply complex and highly individual, filled with pain, ambiguity, and the longing to be seen.
• Acknowledging another’s pain without defensiveness is often more healing than attempts to fix or explain.
• For both estranged parents and adult children, it is possible to find support and meaning outside of reconciliation—even as hope for change remains.
• The willingness to hear and validate perspectives without demanding contact, and to live with uncertainty, can be acts of courage and self-respect on both sides.

[43:11] Chess Dugas: "That was lovely, actually. That was really lovely...I don't know if I ever will hear that from my mom. But it was lovely to hear that from you."

If you or someone you know is struggling with estrangement or family cut-off, this episode offers nuanced insight into the pain—and possibilities—of rebuilding understanding, even if reconciliation never comes.