← Proxy with Yowei Shaw
Proxy with Yowei Shaw
Presenting: An Evil Man (from Little Devils), Plus a Year-End Recap
00:45:49
When Yowei heard about the new podcast Little Devils, she was like: finally, someone being honest about a thing we all do. On Little Devils, Jasmin Bauomy interrogates the snap judgments she makes of other people, to find the story behind that...
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- [00:00]
Shankar Vedantam
Shankar I'm Shankar Vedantam, here to tell you about a great mystery. That mystery is you. As the host of a podcast called Hidden Brain, I explore big questions about what it means to be human. Questions like where do our emotions come from? Why do so many of us feel overwhelmed by modern life? How can we better understand the people around us? Discovery your hidden brain. Find us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:38]
Yoe Shah
You are listening to Proxy, an emotional investigative show. I'm your host, Yoe Shah. It's almost 2025 and I know New Year's resolutions are corny and just another opportunity for the self improvement industrial complex to make us buy things. But I like New Year's resolutions. Call me dumb, I love looking forward. I love setting impossible goals for myself and not feeling too bad about failing. But this year in Proxy, I want to try something different. I want to look back and remember to celebrate how far we've come as a show. So join me in this earnest expedition. Back in January, I was just another podcast journalist who gotten laid off in an uncertain industry. The NPR show I hosted was no more. And the story I was reporting about layoffs for a big famous podcast which was supposed to be my comeback, well that got killed. I got laid off for my own story about layoffs. That's me feeling sorry for myself. But then in February, I decided to wipe my tears and do something with my layoffs reporting. And after figuring out what an RSS feed is, I I managed to independently produce a three part series about the emotional and mental toll of layoffs and soft launch a new show. With that soft launch, I started a Patreon and was hoping to raise enough money to support the production of a full season one of Proxy. That did not end up happening. But I really need to underline how grateful I am to everyone who became a Patreon member and chipped in. Seriously, thank you. Thank you so much. It is the reason this show exists. It's the reason that the team kept going. And that's what we did. In the summer, the Proxy team started working on season one while continuing to publish pre season content to keep listeners from getting hangry. And so I made a four part series to find out why the hell do Proxy conversations work. I also reported on polarization tiers and support groups, classic stories for a show on the emotions beat. We ended up making so much preseason content that some of you got confused and wondered if season one had already started. Which brings us to the present moment. Thank you to everyone for sticking with us as we make season one. It is coming very soon. Thank you to all the Patreon members who have given you are the reason there will be a season one, and I'm just gonna say it. This season is full of bangers. We are getting into all kinds of juicy emotional conundrums about estrangement, breakups, band dynamics. And to give us more time to focus on season one, over the next few months, we are gonna share episodes of podcasts we think are doing interesting explorations of feelings, and then we're gonna interview those makers and in bonus episodes, that's what today is.
- [03:43]
Jasmine Bayomi
My name is Jasmine Bayomi. I am the host and co creator of Little Devils.
- [03:48]
Yoe Shah
Jasmine Bayomi is a podcast producer in Berlin. We met at a conference last year and when she told me about her new show, Little Devils, I was like, finally, someone being honest about a thing we all do.
- [04:03]
Jasmine Bayomi
I am a judgy person in the sense that I make very quick, superficial, quick judgments about people. They're. I mean, I don't know if they sound familiar, but they can sound like, why is this person so smelly? Or that person seems really dumb. Like, honestly, just not intelligent.
- [04:24]
Yoe Shah
I confirmed with Jasmine that she was not talking about me. No. When I asked Jasmine what she thought of me when we met, it was pretty far from the truth, to be honest.
- [04:34]
Jasmine Bayomi
Just from listening to your show rather than meeting you, I thought you were gonna be super extroverted and super confident, to be honest.
- [04:45]
Yoe Shah
This, in my opinion, is evidence for why Jasmine's new podcast is so needed. On Little Devils, Jasmine interrogates her snap judgments of other people by actually talking to them to find the story behind that annoying thing they do.
- [05:01]
Jasmine Bayomi
So I'm pegging this person for a somebody who does xy. Is that right? And why would they be that way? Maybe.
- [05:14]
Yoe Shah
I love the premise of the show. I think it's really fun and also just what we need more of in this moment. Interrogation of what we think we know, curiosity about others, gentle mischief. After the break, enough talking about Little Devils. We'll play a story from the podcast for your listening pleasure. Without further ado, Proxi presents Episode one of Little Devils by Jasmine Bayomi and TRZ Media. The story is called An Evil Man.
- [06:02]
Jasmine Bayomi
I'm a judgy person. I walk through this world looking at people thinking things like, gosh, you're taking too long to pay for your groceries. I think, why is this gorgeous woman over there with this not so gorgeous guy? I see somebody wearing a fur coat and maybe carrying a little lap dog and I think, sheesh, Rich people. Am I right? And I don't know if that makes me extremely judgy or maybe comparatively not so judgy. I don't think it matters. I just know it's not nice because I'm hardly ever curious enough to go back and see if my snap judgments are right or wrong. But what if I became curious like now? I'm Jasmine Bayomi, and this is Little Devils. On this show, I'll look at the things that we're so quick to judge others and ourselves about. I'll explore the unseen, the flaws, the struggles, mistakes, and beliefs that haunt each one of us. Or as I like to call them, a personalized little devils. It's Thanksgiving, and I'm invited to a friendsgiving party, and I'm not that great in big groups. So I was really grateful when this guy Endre sat down next to me. He's an actor, and he made it really easy for me to feel less awkward. He laughed a lot and he talked a lot, and overall he was really charming. I liked him. But when I asked him what he's up to these days, Andrew could hardly finish his.
- [08:14]
Endre
Yeah, you know, anything. You know, everything could collapse any second. I mean, my God, everything.
- [08:19]
Jasmine Bayomi
He kept interrupting his own thoughts and. And was shifting to the edge of his chair and he was squirming. He was starting and restarting sentences and wow. I mean, to me, it seemed like he was really worried about saying the wrong thing and jinxing whatever he had planned. And in a way, he seemed tortured. It made me really curious what was going on with this guy. So for days after the dinner, he kept plopping back into my head. Who was this guy who was so afraid of his own words that it made him crawl out of his own skin?
- [09:04]
Endre
I am an evil man.
- [09:08]
Jasmine Bayomi
This is Endra's voice.
- [09:09]
Endre
I am wearing black. Black is an evil color.
- [09:16]
Jasmine Bayomi
That's him acting in a YouTube series 11 or so years ago.
- [09:20]
Endre
I have made it my duty to spread evil every way I can.
- [09:32]
Jasmine Bayomi
The show is called An Evil Man. I shall start.
- [09:38]
Endre
With a pointy stick.
- [09:44]
Jasmine Bayomi
This YouTube show is all black and white. It's got this grainy camcorder order video quality. And each episode is basically an artistic short film. In the videos, you can see him kind of mischievously looking at the camera, which is so close that it grotesquely distorts his facial features. And it's that same ender that I met at the Thanksgiving dinner, except this version of him was owning his unease. He was playing it almost cartoonishly, you know, like Dr. Evil gets lost in a small town and Germany meets French noir.
- [10:21]
Endre
Was actually like an incel character living in the basement, spreading hate and having a big hubris of believing that one could do horrible things in the world. Like, he cuts his pubic hair and spreads it out from the church towers. I shall spread my itchiness all upon this tiddly place. And while they are eating their ice cream, it's stupid stuff like that, you know? So in the end, it's always about a big monologue of I will become the biggest villain in the world. And then it's like, I'm gonna put in some chocolate laxative into someone else's co. And then the person doesn't drink the coffee because the evil man is so impatient. He shows the person how to drink the coffee and drinks the other person's coffee instead in his rage and drinks the laxative. So it's, you know, so it's slapstick villain humor.
- [11:25]
Jasmine Bayomi
A few weeks after that friendsgiving dinner, I decided to reach out to Ender. And we met in a plush back room of a theater where he works. And although he doesn't act anymore, it was through acting that he fell into this world filled with rehearsals and costumes and characters just like the character of the evil man. That show that Endre and his friend Niles made for fun when they were students. And back then, the series was doing okay. It didn't go viral or anything, but it got a few thousand views. Then one day, Endre and his friend Niles decide that they needed a website for it.
- [12:03]
Endre
We then thought, okay, it would be fun to have a domain. And it was. Evilman666.
- [12:10]
Jasmine Bayomi
Once the website's up, he posts a link on Facebook and he completely forgets about it. And he goes to bed. And while he's sleeping, his phone starts buzzing. It's his dad, who is desperately trying to wake him up. And his dad calls and messages and calls again, but Endre doesn't wake up until the next morning.
- [12:41]
Endre
I remember waking up and I saw I missed his calls and I thought, really? Something happened. And then I called him, and then he was saying, what are you doing with this devil man? And why would you use this number? Don't you see? Stuff could really happen here. This is no joke.
- [13:03]
Jasmine Bayomi
Father was freaking out. He begged his son to please change the name of the domain and take out the 666 for him.
- [13:12]
Endre
It was a little bit of a life and death thing. I mean, he was thinking of, you know, I mean, he was saying stuff like, yeah, People might die with this. You're wishing you're putting something out there. I mean, it sounds totally crazy, but he took it so seriously. I mean, in the aftermath, his dad's.
- [13:30]
Jasmine Bayomi
Behavior was nothing new for Endre. He's always been quite the character who indulged in superstitions. In fact, one of Ender's early childhood memories paints a really good picture. He was around 6 or 7 years old. Picture a quintessential medieval city in Switzerland, Basel. There's a gorgeous river that runs through it. There's hills in the distance. Traditional, picturesque architecture. And this is where Endre grew up. This is also where his dad lived for most of his life. Picture that really pretty city and a tram running through it. And on that tram, little Endre and his father, somewhere in the late 80s or early 90s maybe. And little Endre says something that he can't quite remember. It must have been something that his dad wouldn't have liked.
- [14:29]
Endre
I think it was something like, harsh, I wish that wouldn't happen, or that would be canc. Something like that.
- [14:36]
Jasmine Bayomi
Maybe he wished the school burned down. Who knows? But whatever he said, his dad was shocked.
- [14:42]
Endre
My father then said, this was the first time I heard this sentence. He said, ne fesht azur de goatafallra, which means, don't paint the devil onto the wall. And then, you know, I said, oh, what is that? And said, well, you know, you say things and, you know, you don't want to wish ungood things onto people because they might happen.
- [15:03]
Jasmine Bayomi
This was the first time that Ender had been made aware of this other set of rules that people live by, these magical rules of sorts, where anything you do or say could cause a shift in the universe. And then one day, not too long after that moment on the tram, Ender and his dad were passing some time on the playground, and Endra was hanging upside down on a monkey bar.
- [15:26]
Endre
I was hanging in the air, dangling in the air, but I had it all under control and all that, and I made this stupid joke. I was like, hey, well, you know what? Tell my mother goodbye. I loved her so much. All my life. I made this farewell speech, watching too many ridiculous war movies or, I don't know, adventure movies. And in that moment, I lost control because I guess I was speaking. And I fell all the way from 3, 4 meters straight on my back.
- [15:59]
Jasmine Bayomi
Endre falls, and his dad looks at him and says, you see? And finally, Endre could see what his father saw all along. It was like he walked through this gateway into a parallel Universe where things go wrong if you provoke was the beginning of a new way of thinking for Endre. A superstitious way of thinking.
- [16:26]
Endre
I was just seeing myself being caught up in a wheelchair. I thought, oh, my God, what happens if from this stupid joke or whatever, I'm now punished and I will, yeah, be paralyzed? See, I don't even want to say it because, you see, this is the thing. I couldn't even say it now. I didn't want to say it. I was totally becoming aware of these things that, oh, if you say something or if you wish something, you know, you don't want to influence that to happen.
- [16:59]
Jasmine Bayomi
Ender saw it. Bad things could happen. And keeping bad things from happening was at the center of his family's existence. Andrew's mom and dad were both musicians. His dad was a highly successful saxophone player.
- [17:16]
Endre
Our household was always deemed loud from the outside, of course, but on the.
- [17:22]
Jasmine Bayomi
Inside, inside that family bubble, Andrea was surrounded by people who believed that the world holds magic. Andrea grows up and goes to school, study in a small town in Germany. And there he lives among people called Traben and Florian or Rebecca, you know, just regular German people. And these people, it's like they'd never encountered this magical way of moving through the world.
- [17:54]
Endre
Lots of my German friends would say, superstition. What do you mean, superstition? You just get this and that practicum and do this and that, and then you just show up and you get the job.
- [18:06]
Jasmine Bayomi
They knew that they had to go through certain steps which would usually lead them to achieve whichever goals they pursued. You know, regular adult things.
- [18:17]
Endre
So it was just this very classic German way and also this very sober way to see things, which I thought that I was maybe trying to reintegrien myself into that maybe. I don't know.
- [18:37]
Jasmine Bayomi
Away from his family, Andrew felt really out of place. And so he started observing the others and mirroring what they did.
- [18:45]
Endre
And there, I must say, there I realized, yes, there I also started to also see our family history differ. This whole thing that my father. Oh, my God, he was so crazy with his superstitions and all these things. And I, I. Yeah, I mean, I also. I guess this is going to be an eternal complex, right? Because we. Yeah, I mean, okay. God, I'm really. I can't speak freely.
- [19:15]
Jasmine Bayomi
There he is. That's the ender that can't finish a sentence. That's the ender that I met at dinner. Andre gets settled in Germany, and he tries to make sense of the fact that what seemed so normal to him Growing up, these superstitious beliefs in his family, it wasn't normal to others at all. At the same time, his dad finds a new love. It's a woman from Hungary. He marries her and he moves back to Budapest. And his new wife also has these superstitious beliefs, just like Andrew's dad, maybe even more there.
- [19:58]
Endre
It's this whole interaction with the. Let's say this whole metaphysical consciousness was totally part of the everyday practice. If you walk past people on the street and you could not give money to beggars. If you cannot give something, don't look them directly in the eye. And if you do, then you have to go.
- [20:28]
Jasmine Bayomi
That sound, that's Ender mimicking the sound that his stepmom used to make. These small spits of air, because that.
- [20:37]
Endre
You can deflect their malwishes, that you could not give something.
- [20:40]
Jasmine Bayomi
These little habits of hers seem to rub off on Ender's dad. And over time, Ender becomes aware of this new divide between them.
- [20:50]
Endre
He's back in Budapest, where he's amongst his old friends and all that. They're all crazy over there. And for me, it was also a power struggle to think, hey, I'm not gonna get involved with your quote, unquote barbaric ways of thinking.
- [21:07]
Jasmine Bayomi
Which brings us back to the YouTube series an evil Man. It was around that time that Endre woke up to a bunch of missed calls and messages from his dad. And it wasn't even the title that was the issue. It was the show Domain. An evil man. 666.
- [21:24]
Endre
He said, this is the devil's number. Don't you know you're conjuring him? This is the number that produces evil, and you're spreading it and you're being part of it. You're enabling it. You're conjuring it, you're conveying it.
- [21:39]
Jasmine Bayomi
END had been living according to the mantra out of sight, out of mind. And his family's superstitious beliefs, well, they were in the rearview mirror. But when his dad called, it stirred up these old feelings.
- [21:53]
Endre
The Hungarian discussion is first 10 calls where we yell at each other. No one listens. And I'm like, are you crazy? What are you talking about? This is totally paranoid. This is really getting out of hand. I was lecturing him about superstitious. I said, come on, guys, this is superstitious. This is really crazy talk. What's going on here? And after, yeah, I'd say two hours of back and forth and hanging up and calling back and texting and then calling again. All this big drama. I just said, what do you want me to do? He said, well, tell this Niles guy to take it off. And then that took another hour of like, okay. I mean, I was also ashamed. I didn't want to tell Niles to, hey, come on, this is.
- [22:39]
Jasmine Bayomi
Why were you ashamed?
- [22:40]
Endre
Well, I. Because I thought it was crazy. I did think it was crazy.
- [22:44]
Jasmine Bayomi
Honestly, I probably would have reacted just like Andre. It just makes no rational sense to me. But Endre told me that there's a reason for all of this, and it all has to do with a family legend. It's a story involving Swiss bureaucracy, of all things. See, Andrew's parents weren't the only ones in the family who were musicians. The entire side of his dad's family played music, and they would all perform together as a band. And they didn't just immigrate to Switzerland because they felt like it. They had ended up there as refugees from Hungary, where they were all superstars. Everybody knew them from the radio, from TV and concerts. They were a huge hit with this American style music. But then, after a failed uprising against communism In Hungary in 1956, they started being seen as a threat to communist values. The music was a bit too American, too Western. And so the family started feeling the political pressure. That's why the band decided that was the perfect time to go on a quote unquote tour across Europe. For several years, Andrew's grandfather and the rest of the family traveled across Europe and they played music wherever somebody would let them.
- [25:13]
Endre
I mean, they played in strip bars also, right? They just were, you know, jumping from town to town. And then they landed in Switzerland. And somehow there, my grandfather, he said, this is a good harbor place.
- [25:28]
Jasmine Bayomi
Ender's granddad decided to put down roots in Switzerland. And once he made that decision, the entire family went ahead and applied for asylum, which they were granted. And so somebody from the family would keep going to the state migration office and get an extension for their refugee status again and again and again. Some years go by and they're all ready to apply for permanent residency. So one day, Andre's grandfather goes up to the state migration office and he's equipped with all the papers for the application.
- [26:09]
Endre
And the person said, no, gave the no stamp, said, no, you guys have to leave the country now. In the next, I think, 24 hours or something. So they were standing in front of this AMT in Basel, Andre's granddad, who.
- [26:30]
Jasmine Bayomi
Walks out of the building and over to the family, and he gives them the bad news.
- [26:37]
Endre
And then somehow I don't know why, but they said, you know what? Go back and just ask again. So they went back like a half an hour later, my grandfather went back in.
- [26:50]
Jasmine Bayomi
This time there was a different person behind the desk, a woman.
- [26:54]
Endre
And he went and said, hello, blah blah blah. Showed the papers and she was like, wait a sec, Hole. Aren't you the band leader from Da Da da da Da from Budapest? Yes. Well, you played on the wedding of Da da la la la back then and da da la la. Well, yes. And she said she looked around, don't worry. Da da la boom. Took out and put the stamp on and. And that was the. That was the entry ser. I guess, yeah. Our founding moment was built on these luck. And our story was always this, wow. Then of course we were. I mean, yeah, I always have to. That's why, I guess I'm always afraid to jinx it. Because we were fucking lucky. Yes. I mean, after us, it was always lucky. And there's always the panic of losing that luck. There was lots of luck, but it was always this thing, this could just fall away.
- [27:55]
Jasmine Bayomi
His dad had worked all his life to make sure that hard work was met by a benevolent universe, which sounds like a really difficult balancing act. And now here was his son toying around with exactly that balance by putting up a website for his YouTube show with the URL an evilman666.com I thought.
- [28:17]
Endre
It was crazy, but then the more we started to discuss, I mean, yeah, when he was. I mean, I really felt that he was really afraid, genuinely afraid. And I knew it wasn't just. Yeah, I knew it wasn't just his social fear or his environment and his. It was really an innate thing that he was really afraid. He really believed in this. And there I then thought, okay, my God. Well, then. Then, okay, then I, then I. Then I started working on Niles. And that took another half a day to really. Because Niles did the. No, this is crazy, blah blah blah. And then at the end of the day, I really said, please, my father really believes in this. He's suffering and I can't do that. I can't do this project anymore, otherwise I can't do this to him. And that was somehow the, the turning point. And then I just took it off and. And the funny thing is it did. I felt better then. I did feel better. I didn't want it. I was. Then sort of when I was starting to think of it, of course, with this whole panic coming from my father, I did think, okay, it's true, actually, I don't want to tie it to my name, even if it's fiction.
- [29:42]
Jasmine Bayomi
That's it. The argument is over. In a way, I can see a lot of Andre's dad in Andre in the way that he's relieved after they changed the domain name, not just because his dad finally stopped calling him about it, but because a little piece of him maybe did think that his dad might be right. And at the same time, I do see somebody who's incredibly reluctant to give superstitions too much weight. And these two truths make up the ender that I met at Thanksgiving dinner. It's like I could almost see how his heart and his brain were competing to win the fight. You seem so tortured.
- [30:26]
Endre
Yeah.
- [30:27]
Jasmine Bayomi
Is that actually true?
- [30:30]
Endre
Hey, I was tortured because it was just for me. Yes. I came just out of this whole transition. I was really on this juncture. Should I. I mean, the opportunities were there to maybe pursue.
- [30:49]
Jasmine Bayomi
Emre was at a big turning point of his career at that moment. He'd just gone a few rounds for a job application and was really psyched. But he couldn't tell me any of that because he was so afraid to jinx it.
- [31:03]
Endre
Yes. I was panicked that now it's a nice Thanksgiving evening. We had this divine turkey. It was a wonderful. It was a nice atmosphere. And then it just felt I had this desire to let go. I wanted to finally say yes. Somehow this new thing is going to open up, and it's actually the thing I was looking for. You know, the only things that really ever worked out for me. If I somehow, like. Like a. Like a. Like a. Yeah. I mean, it's toxic. It's a toxic single thing. What I'm gonna say, if I just kept it in me, I didn't tell anybody. And then somehow, boom, I let the ac. Now, look, I already switch into language. I let the gods and goddesses do their thing, and somehow the universe snaps, aligned into one perfect moment. And then things worked.
- [31:56]
Jasmine Bayomi
Each time Endre talked about a good thing that he was excited about, it didn't come true.
- [32:03]
Endre
I can't really pinpoint. I can't identify clearly where that is from. I still refuse to somehow say I am in some way superstitious in that sense. I am maybe a practitioner of superstition to some very weird paradoxical level. And that's why I was. I was squirming. I was constantly. No, no, no. I don't want to talk. Don't. Don't say it. Don't. I don't. I just don't want on the other.
- [32:35]
Jasmine Bayomi
Hand, he did want to say it because it would bring such a great feeling of relief.
- [32:40]
Endre
You say something and it's like a cathartic moment. And I was really, really also longing for that cathartic moment.
- [32:55]
Jasmine Bayomi
In which way do you think your dad's superstitious beliefs have somehow had an impact on your life right now?
- [33:07]
Endre
An impact on my life right now? Well, when I saw my father die, you know, he. I was. I was there. And from one moment he was there, the other moment he was not there. And in that moment, you know, I mean, this is maybe. Yeah. To say anything else about that moment than to accept, wow, it's. Yeah, he's. It's. It's. It's gone. He's gone, you know, and that is horrible to say, but it would feel really weird to say, oh, he's on the stars somewhere. He's looking down at this moment.
- [33:50]
Jasmine Bayomi
But still, there's this thing that happens to him all the time. Endres says this happens to him all the time. He'd be walking down the street or standing at a traffic light, struggling with some sort of decision that he can't make, and then out of nowhere, something would happen that reminds him of his dad, something that he can't ignore.
- [34:15]
Endre
Suddenly, a car stops in front of the red light with rolled down windows, and some song comes out with a saxophone solo in it, and I'm like, oh, my God, you know, what the. You know, I don't want to use the word sign. I would just say it's a. I would say it's an absurd coincidence that is connected with the materiality of the world that then makes me engage with the. With the present moment. And then I think of him. So in that sense, yes, if I think of these stories, yes, they are a reminder of our togetherness.
- [34:58]
Jasmine Bayomi
But are you trying to say that holding or keeping treasuring some of these thought patterns, I don't want to call them beliefs right now, but, like, is that a way to grieve your dad?
- [35:17]
Endre
Yeah, maybe. Maybe that is why I'm not letting go of. I mean, yes, or I like to keep a back door open or paradoxical or like to keep this. This whole thing a little bit. It's a homage. It's always a homage. So maybe this little rest of the. If one would want to call it superstition is my little homage to my father and to my grandfather. This is maybe keeping them alive even. And in this whole paradoxical mode that knowing it's somewhere bs but the fact that I am keeping that somewhere alive in me, is also keeping them alive and keeping me connected with them, even though I know they're not there.
- [36:02]
Jasmine Bayomi
Yes. And it is, though, an homage that you did not choose to go into. Would you want to change it?
- [36:14]
Endre
Why? I mean, at the moment, you know. No. I mean, I don't feel the urge and maybe. Okay. Okay. Wow. Oh. Oh, darn. Wow. Or is this. Am I still in the process of mourning? That could also be. Yeah, that could also be. I mean. Yeah, it takes. Takes many years. It was 2016. Yeah.
- [37:00]
Jasmine Bayomi
Because what would it mean if you let go of these beliefs and of these patterns?
- [37:06]
Endre
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that is. I guess that is. No, I wouldn't. No, no. Yeah. It's somewhere not letting go. Yeah, definitely. And it's still. Somewhere. A realization or still. Yeah. Still not having fully grasped. Right. That he's. He's not there. Because he really was. I mean, we had an intense and. And beautiful relationship and. Yeah. And this whole thing, we couldn't really say goodbye and all that, you know, so that was all these. I mean. Yeah. I mean, he did it in his own way. I was walking on the street and he called two days before that final fatal operation. All that. That. He. We were just talking, you know, just talking, talking. I was on the street and. And then. And then he said, well, you know the joke. The guy goes to the doctor and said, says, I have bad news for you. And this is. You don't have much longer to live. And the guy says, well, what do you mean? How much time? What do you mean? And this is 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. You know, but that was actually the last. Yeah, that was the last joke. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [40:12]
Jasmine Bayomi
Some of Endra's theater colleagues pop their head into the room and turns out they need it. So we got kicked out. And as we're packing up, I'm actually.
- [40:21]
Endre
Terrified now that I'm going to look at my phone and there's going to be 10 calls. There's going to be something horrible. I'm going to look at the email and there's going to be something there of. Hey, I'm very sorry. Something came up. We're going to change plans. I mean, here I become a conspiracy theorist. That's why it's so paranoid, because I believe in the institutions. I believe in democracy and all that, but I also know exactly how things can flip in. Yeah. Like a darn Azul Antrak. You can just go back a half an hour later. And boom.
- [40:57]
Jasmine Bayomi
With our entire conversation, Endre has spent at least an hour provoking that parallel universe that he learned to embrace as a kid. And by doing that, he could have jinxed everything. So of course I challenge him to look at his phone. Have a look at your phone real quick and then we'll end that.
- [41:22]
Endre
Okay, the email. Okay, the emails. Okay. Nothing changed on the emails. I'm looking at WhatsApp. Okay. Missed call from them. But that's okay. The moment look on the signal. Nothing there. Yeah. Okay. No. Okay, wait. The last look on the imessage. Okay, Nothing. Oh, and the telegram. No. Okay. No, nothing. Okay. Okay. Well, I don't want to go woohoo yet, you know. But yes. But yes. It's a great feeling to know. Okay.
- [41:59]
Jasmine Bayomi
It's a great feeling to know. Okay. Everything's okay. If after all of this you'd ask me if Andre was superstitious, I couldn't tell you. What is clear though, is that he misses his father and everything that reminds him of him, even the superstitions. And it could be easy to pass judgment on a guy who is constantly afraid to jinx things and calling that his little devil, the thing that haunts him. But Endre no longer strikes me as haunted. And knowing what I know now, I don't think it's time that bad to be a quote unquote practitioner of superstition. Don't I knock on wood and cross my fingers hoping something will work out in my favor? I sure do.
- [43:09]
Yoe Shah
That was the first episode of Little Devils, a new independent show from Jasmine, Byomi and TRZ Media. You can listen to the rest of the four part series wherever you get your podcasts. And you can support the show by becoming a member of their Patreon. Just go to patreon.com littledevils that's patreon.com littledEvils Speaking of which, Proxy is also an independent production. Yes, we're doing a double Patreon plug. Sorry. If you would like to support season one, which is coming next year, go to patreon.com proxypodcast you'll get exclusive monthly bonus episodes featuring interviews about all kinds of emotional questions. Like how can the myth of meritocracy haunt people who don't even subscribe to it? And what does restorative justice in the age of MeToo look like? This month I spoke to Jasmine Bayomi, the host of Little Devils. You'll hear how some very bad dates led to the making of the show and what Jasmine has learned from reporting on the annoying flaws we all have.
- [44:19]
Jasmine Bayomi
I'll put a finger on the spot where it hurts and then I say or I ask well, do you need to change it? Do you want to change it? Is it an actual problem, you little devil? Or is it the thing that maybe you need right now? Is it the thing that makes you you? Is it just a matter of managing it rather than letting it run wild?
- [44:41]
Yoe Shah
To listen to the bonus episode, go to patreon.com ProxyPodcast we'll have that link plus the link to Jasmine's Patreon and all the places you can find her on the Internet in our show notes. Proxy is produced by Kim Nadervane Pieterse Anda Karen Santana, Nick Leblanc and me. We are edited by John Delore and Tim Howard. Our theme music is by Brickmaster Cylinder and our mixing engineer is Kyle Pulley. As always, our email isproxy the podmail.com you can follow us on Instagram ProxyPodcast and you can follow me Yoashaw okay, Happy Happy New Year. I am planning on not going out for New Year's Eve. I am not going to wear anything sparkly. I'm just going to have a quiet night in, eat some fried chicken. I wish you whatever is your version of doing exactly what you want. See you on the other side.
- [45:38]
E
Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.
- [46:21]
Endre
Radiotopia.
- [46:23]
Jasmine Bayomi
From PRX.