Transcript

Jane Marie (0:01)

Ever wondered why some trends are just suddenly everywhere? Newsflash, Nothing gets popular by accident. I'm Brittany Luce, and on the It's Been a Minute podcast, I take the things you and I are both obsessing over and show you the invisible forces behind the scenes that make us. Love it or hate it. Be smarter about what you're consuming. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast today.

Charlotte Eisenberg (0:27)

Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate. And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

Sponsor/Announcer (0:57)

This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo D o O dot com. That's O D o O dot com.

Charlotte Eisenberg (1:27)

Hey everyone.

Yowei Shaw (1:27)

Welcome to Proxy, the show that investigates your niche emotional conundrums by proxy. I'm Yowei Shaw. Boy, that's a mouthful. That's my first time trying out that tagline. Let me know what you think. Uh, okay. I know I sound like a broken record, but I wanna make sure everyone gets the message. We are hard at work investigating a new cases which will be ready for you in the spring. In the meantime, we are sharing episodes of shows we think you will like. Because again, I'm gonna sound like a broken record. In podcasting, there is no good discovery algorithm and so this really is the best way for podcasts and listeners to find each other.

Jane Marie (2:13)

First things first. Can I turn the camera off? That's more my speed.

Yowei Shaw (2:18)

This week we're saying hello to Jane Marie, the host of the Dream. If you haven't heard the Dream, you should run, not walk to listen to season one, an 11 part investigation into the world of MLMs and how many smart, well meaning people get pulled into them these days. The Dream is still investigating the American dream and the many ways we get suckered in by it. Just with a broader Scope on the show, Jane has covered everything from the skincare industry to family vlogs to the cult like tactics of brands.

Summary

Proxy with Yowei Shaw — "Presenting: Babies Not Having Babies (with The Dream)"

Episode Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Yowei Shaw
Guest/Featured Story: Jane Marie (host of The Dream) and Charlotte Eisenberg
Theme: The realities of pregnancy criminalization and anti-abortion activism, told through the harrowing, deeply personal story of Charlotte Eisenberg.

Overview

This episode of Proxy features an episode from the acclaimed podcast The Dream, hosted by Jane Marie. Titled "Babies Not Having Babies," it presents the raw testimony of Charlotte Eisenberg, a young woman in North Carolina whose experience of sexual abuse, teen pregnancy, participation in anti-abortion activism, and ultimately seeking an abortion, leads to her being targeted, surveilled, and nearly institutionalized by former associates in the anti-abortion movement. The story is an emotional exposé of the American "culture war" on reproductive rights, especially in the wake of Roe v. Wade’s overturning.

The episode illuminates how systemic and personal pressures can lead to coercion and criminalization of pregnancy and abortion, and the ways in which anti-abortion organizations target, manipulate, and endanger vulnerable individuals.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to The Dream & Jane Marie's Perspective (02:13 – 05:19)

Jane Marie describes her skepticism toward the "American Dream," her early awareness of systemic inequality, and why she investigates the promises and pitfalls of such ideals.
- Quote: “It was really apparent to me as a youngster that… only a certain type of person who knows how to play this game is going to get the things that are being promised to all of us. Like, we can’t all have it, obviously, right?” – Jane Marie (02:56)
Both Yowei and Jane admit to "falling for" self-help and improvement products despite their better judgment, emphasizing that anyone can be drawn into deceptive systems.

2. Trigger Warning & Context Setting (06:19 – 07:30)

Jane warns this episode is especially upsetting and reveals she was deeply affected by Charlotte’s story; she frames the episode around fears of criminalization post-Roe and the reality that such fears are now being realized.

3. Charlotte's Early Life & Abuse (07:30 – 13:08)

Charlotte introduces herself: a university student, political journalist, and reproductive rights advocate.
Details growing up in poverty in North Carolina, raised by a single mother who had her first child at 15.
At age 11, Charlotte was sexually abused by someone close to her, resulting in years of rape and eventually, a pregnancy at 15, which ended in miscarriage—alone in her school bathroom.
- Quote: “I ended up miscarrying that pregnancy at about nine or ten weeks in my school bathroom... I sat on the toilet and just, like, looked at my hands. They were covered in blood at that point… I thought that I might die at any second.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (09:36)

4. Seeking Comfort & Online Exploitation (13:08 – 16:41)

Charlotte turned to Twitter for validation, receiving attention and sympathy from strangers who were, unbeknownst to her, part of the anti-abortion movement.
She was pulled into their emotional orbit, made to feel special for her pain, and "groomed" into being an anti-abortion influencer.
- Quote: “In retrospect, that's, you know, obviously how cults pull people in. They tell them that they're broken, but... we have something that can make you feel better, something that can fix you. And for me, at that point, that thing was Jesus.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (14:55)
Despite never having an abortion, Charlotte became a "poster child" for the movement, used in YouTube videos and media campaigns.

5. Experience Inside the Anti-Abortion Movement (16:41 – 24:55)

Coerced into publicizing a narrative of grief for a child she didn't want, pressured to conflate rape and abortion as equal harms.
Worked closely with Progressive Anti Abortion Uprising (PAAU), which presented itself as left-leaning but was backed by wealthy conservative donors.
Exposed to manipulation, tokenization of her Jewish identity, and internal group dynamics that resembled cult-like “struggle sessions.”
- Quote: “You're not supposed to talk to other people in the group about your issues... so there can’t be any opinion forming about how the organization is being run.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (21:17)
Eventually left the group quietly due to internal conflict and increasing harassment, including anti-Semitic abuse.

6. Addiction, Rehab, and Re-Evaluation (30:31 – 33:12)

After a downward spiral with alcohol, Charlotte’s boyfriend encourages her to attend rehab, where she finally processes both her abuse and exploitation by the anti-abortion movement.
- Quote: “My therapist was able to articulate to me for the first time that I had been exploited and abused by those adults, and that's why I was so angry.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (32:09)
She comes to identify as pro-choice.

7. An Unplanned Pregnancy & Seeking an Abortion in Post-Roe South (33:40 – 41:11)

After rehab, Charlotte becomes pregnant due to her birth control being rendered ineffective by antibiotics.
North Carolina’s restrictive abortion laws require a mandatory ultrasound and a three-day waiting period.
- Quote: “I had like two or three weeks from the time I made the appointment until going to it... there’s only so many clinics in our state to handle the people from here. So there’s no space for me to reschedule this appointment or anything. It’s really do or die.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (49:27)
Years of anti-abortion programming manifest as doubt, fear, and guilt.

8. The Harassment Begins (41:11 – 57:42)

Charlotte reaches out to a former associate, Kristin Turner, for practical support if she chooses not to abort. This is weaponized against her.
Anti-abortion orgs (“Let Them Live”) require evidence of an abortion appointment before offering “help,” with strings attached.
Crisis Pregnancy Centers are described as non-medical, deceptive operations targeting women seeking reproductive care.
Despite bribes and emotional pressure, Charlotte refuses to submit to their manipulations; harassment escalates:
- Turned into a multi-front barrage: text messages, calls from national figures, attempts to lure her away from her support network, and even showing up at her clinic appointment.
Notable scene: Kristin Turner physically enters the clinic, sits with Charlotte and her boyfriend, bombards them with invasive questions, then stalks them post-appointment (63:15–67:31).

9. The Ordeal Escalates to Police & Hospitalization (68:53 – 88:39)

Kristin and associates attempt to isolate Charlotte, suggesting she stay with them; when rebuffed, they call 911, falsely claiming Charlotte is suicidal.
Charlotte is picked up by police, told a magistrate has signed a warrant based on a false affidavit, and is forcibly taken for psychiatric evaluation.
- Quote: “We have a warrant from a magistrate because someone filed an affidavit certifying that this girl is a danger to herself, and we have to take her to be evaluated at a psych ward. They want to put her in a psych ward for 72 hours and hold her there.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (76:07)
Recognizes the real risk of forced institutionalization, potentially leading to forced birth or loss of parental rights.
Luckily, a sympathetic doctor and psychiatrist release her.

10. Aftermath & Legal (Non)Action (88:47 – 95:42)

Charlotte ultimately self-manages her abortion at home, choosing secrecy for her own safety.
Discusses the desire but inability to pursue legal recourse due to shifting laws and rising criminalization risks, especially after news that anti-abortion activists, previously imprisoned, are being released.
- Quote: “It just feels like they just get to terrorize women as much as they want, basically, and it’s only getting worse.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (93:37)

11. Conclusion: Reflection and Moving Forward (95:42 – End)

Charlotte, once a symbol for the anti-abortion movement, now uses her platform and experience to advocate for abortion rights and expose harassment.
Notes that others within the movement are waking up but still feel trapped.
Credits her anger and the support of loved ones for her resilience; now writing and working for reproductive rights organizations.
- Quote: “I’m really grateful for [the anger]... I tapped into it and I used it to do all these things that without it, I just would not be able to do if I was just, you know, only able to sit with how scared and helpless it made me feel.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (98:27)
Jane concludes by condemning the systemic and personal cruelties inflicted in the name of “morality,” and warns of escalating stories like Charlotte’s if nothing changes.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Early Realization of Systemic Barriers:
“To make it to the very top? Well, I’d have to step on people and I’d have to manipulate people and I’d have to play a role that really isn’t me. And unfortunately, I wasn’t born a sociopath.” – Jane Marie (03:32)
On Exploitation by the Anti-Abortion Movement:
“Somehow over the span of a couple years that kept happening over and over where I would talk about it and it would get a good reaction from those people. And then I woke up one day and I was an anti-abortion influencer.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (16:41)
On the Pressure Cooker of Abortion Access:
“It’s all meant to put you in this pressure cooker where you feel like you have to make a very, very, very serious choice right now. And it costs so much money. And it’s so scary because they’ve hyped it up to be this terrifying thing, and they’re hoping that you just stay home. And that’s a much easier ask than going through with it.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (50:12)
On The Harassment Tactics:
“I’m not embarrassed. You’re just literally, your nose is in my ass right now. You need to leave.” – Charlotte Eisenberg, on being contacted by anti-abortion activists on her abortion day (53:19)
On Being Targeted by Former Allies:
“Let’s just traumatize her a little bit more. A little bit more.” – Jane Marie, about being forcibly institutionalized after abuse and trauma (77:04)
On the Breakdown of Empathy in Political Activism:
“So many adults let, or maybe even want their politics to affect their morals. In other words, if you want to be in a certain group that aims to change laws, you might start to believe people like Charlotte should suffer for that. You lose your empathy, your compassion in favor of some collective political goal.” – Jane Marie (100:03)
On Agency and Leaving the Movement:
“You can leave, because I did. I left so publicly and I endured some bullshit for it, but it was worth it because... I don’t think any sane person should be able to live with themselves seeing something like what happened to me.” – Charlotte Eisenberg (97:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

02:56 — Jane Marie on the impossibility of the American Dream
09:36 — Charlotte recounts her traumatic miscarriage in a school bathroom
14:55 — On being recruited into the anti-abortion movement via online comfort
16:41 — How Charlotte became an anti-abortion influencer
21:17 — Cult-like control within anti-abortion activist groups
30:31 — Addiction spiral, rehab, emergence as pro-choice
33:40 — Becoming pregnant due to ineffective birth control post-rehab; navigating restrictive laws
41:11 — Seeking support, inadvertently alerting anti-abortion activists
49:27 — Describing the urgency and obstacles of accessing abortion
63:15–67:31 — Confrontation with Kristen Turner at the clinic
68:53 — Attempt to isolate and abduct Charlotte; escalation to calling 911
76:07 — Being forcibly taken for psychiatric evaluation on a false affidavit
88:39 — Released from hospital; reflection on the full scope of danger
93:37 — On the impossibility of justice and rising criminalization
97:13 — On leaving the movement and reclaiming agency
98:27 — Harnessing anger and the support of loved ones for activism
100:03 — Jane’s closing reflection on lost empathy and the danger of political dogma

Final Reflections

This episode is searing, emotional, and timely, offering a first-person account of how the legal, social, and ideological apparatus of anti-abortion activism can transform into a machinery of harassment, coercion, and state violence. Charlotte’s story is shared not as exceptional, but as a warning and a call to recognize the growing risks and inhumanity of pregnancy criminalization, and the loss of empathy in an era of political zealotry.

Proxy’s commitment to “emotional investigative journalism™️” is powerfully realized here, as both Jane Marie and Yowei Shaw offer space for a story that is as urgent as it is difficult.

For those seeking to better understand the lived consequences of post-Roe America — and the human cost of reproductive policy wars — this episode is essential listening.