Proxy Podcast: Conversations with Sexual Offenders? Hosted by Yowei Shaw | Released on July 29, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Proxy titled "Conversations with Sexual Offenders?", host Yowei Shaw delves into the nuanced and often overlooked realm of restorative justice as it pertains to sexual harm. Drawing from a bonus episode originally intended for Patreon supporters, Shaw presents a profound dialogue with Alyssa Ackerman, a criminal justice professor, survivor of sexual violence, and co-founder of Ampersands Restorative Justice. This episode navigates the delicate balance between holding offenders accountable and fostering avenues for healing and prevention.

Restorative Justice and Its Relevance Post-MeToo

[00:03] Yowei Shaw:
"It’s not therapy - it’s emotional investigative journalism™️."

Shaw introduces the concept of restorative justice, distinguishing it from traditional punitive measures. Unlike conventional criminal justice, which aims primarily to punish offenders, restorative justice focuses on repairing the harm done to victims and fostering accountability in a more personal and transformative manner.

The Story of Bobby: A Case Study in Restorative Justice

[03:03] Host:
"How many people have reached out to you for restorative justice since MeToo?"

[03:26] Alyssa Ackerman:
"Hundreds. Hundreds of people, survivors and those who have caused harm."

Shaw and Ackerman discuss a poignant case involving Bobby, a man in his 60s who committed date rape in his early 20s. Decades later, inspired by the MeToo movement, Bobby seeks accountability for his past actions.

[03:51] Alyssa Ackerman:
"Bobby is in his 60s, and when he was in his early 20s, committed a rape of a woman that he met in a bar... he left the apartment, never to go back. Never saw her again."

Bobby's quest for accountability leads him to reach out to Ackerman, setting the stage for a restorative justice process aimed at healing rather than punishment.

Facilitating the Restorative Process

[05:34] Bobby:
"I want to be involved in accountability work, but I recognize that I've never been held accountable for the harm that I committed."

Ackerman orchestrates a vicarious restorative justice process, given that Bobby could not locate the woman he harmed. She involves other survivors to create a safe and structured environment for dialogue.

[07:11] Bobby:
"In a restorative process, there are a series of opening questions that sort of set the stage. It's a very sacred process."

Using tools like a talking piece and establishing clear values for the conversation, the group ensures that the dialogue remains respectful and focused on healing.

Impact and Transformations

[09:52] Bobby:
"She became a human being to him because we were human beings sharing our experiences."

One of the most profound outcomes of the session was the mutual recognition of shared struggles. A survivor disclosed her battles with addiction and eating disorders, mirroring Bobby's own struggles, fostering a deep sense of connection and understanding between them.

[10:33] Host:
"It's a bit challenging to hear that because it feels almost unbelievable that the experience that a survivor has could be similar at all to the experience of a rapist."

Ackerman addresses the surprising parallels between the emotional aftermath experienced by both survivors and offenders, emphasizing that acknowledging the humanity in offenders does not excuse their actions but opens pathways for genuine accountability and prevention.

Challenges and Ethical Considerations

[14:30] Bobby:
"Like, none of us are the worst thing we've ever done. None of us are the worst thing that's ever happened to us. We are so much more than that."

The conversation delves into the complexities of labeling and accountability. Ackerman critiques the MeToo movement for sometimes conflating individuals entirely with their harmful actions, which can hinder meaningful accountability and rehabilitation.

[16:47] Host:
"It doesn't feel true to them because it's not true."

Bobby discusses the resistance offenders often exhibit when faced with harsh labels, highlighting the necessity for nuanced language and approaches in addressing sexual harm.

Limitations of the Criminal Justice System

[22:40] Bobby:
"Prison isn't effective at reducing recidivism. Prison is not prevention. Prison is traumatic and begets more violence."

Ackerman and Bobby critically examine the shortcomings of the traditional criminal justice system in addressing sexual violence. They argue that material consequences like imprisonment may not effectively prevent future harm and can, in some cases, exacerbate the cycle of violence.

[25:02] Bobby:
"Vengeance feels really good, but it actually doesn't make us safe."

They advocate for restorative measures that educate and rehabilitate, fostering an environment where both survivors and offenders can engage in healing and prevention.

The Future of Restorative Justice in Preventing Sexual Violence

[27:47] Bobby:
"When we call people in, sometimes they're not ready, and sometimes they'll never be, but some people will be."

Ackerman emphasizes the importance of creating spaces for dialogue and accountability. She underscores that while restorative justice may not be suitable for every case—particularly those involving egregious violence or minors—it holds significant potential for reducing sexual violence by addressing root causes and fostering empathy.

[30:01] Host:
"If we're not willing to try, then we're never going to succeed. So are we successful every time? No. Are mistakes made? Absolutely. But we are trying to build the bridge for this disconnect."

The episode concludes with a call to action, urging listeners to embrace restorative practices as a means to bridge the disconnect between punitive measures and genuine prevention of sexual violence.

Conclusion

This episode of Proxy offers a thought-provoking exploration of restorative justice in the context of sexual harm. Through the story of Bobby and the insights of Alyssa Ackerman, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the potential and challenges of holding offenders accountable in ways that promote healing and prevent future violence. The conversation calls for a reimagining of justice—one that honors the humanity of all parties involved and seeks to break the cycle of harm through empathy, education, and meaningful accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Yowei Shaw ([00:03]): "It’s not therapy - it’s emotional investigative journalism™️."
• Alyssa Ackerman ([03:26]): "Hundreds. Hundreds of people, survivors and those who have caused harm."
• Bobby ([09:52]): "She became a human being to him because we were human beings sharing our experiences."
• Bobby ([14:30]): "Like, none of us are the worst thing we've ever done. None of us are the worst thing that's ever happened to us. We are so much more than that."
• Bobby ([22:40]): "Prison isn't effective at reducing recidivism. Prison is not prevention. Prison is traumatic and begets more violence."
• Bobby ([25:02]): "Vengeance feels really good, but it actually doesn't make us safe."
• Bobby ([30:01]): "When we call people in, sometimes they're not ready, and sometimes they'll never be, but some people will be."

Further Resources

• Alyssa Ackerman's Work: Ampersands Restorative Justice
• Support Proxy Podcast: patreon.com/ProxyPodcast
• Listen to Proxy Episodes: proxypodcast.com
• Follow on Instagram: @proxypodcast | @yoweishaw
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• Contact: proxythepod@gmail.com

Thank you for diving deep into this important conversation with us. Join us again in two weeks for another enlightening episode of Proxy.