Proxy with Yowei Shaw
Episode: Sandy and the Silence
Air Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Yowei Shaw
Guest: Sandy Ernest Allen
Episode Overview
"Sandy and the Silence" delves into the emotional and societal landscape surrounding trans rights in the wake of a renewed wave of anti-trans legislation. Journalist and writer Sandy Ernest Allen joins host Yowei Shaw for a raw, illuminating, and gently provocative conversation about what it feels like to be a trans person living amidst constant political attacks and public quietude. The episode investigates why so many cisgender people aren't speaking up or reaching out, the complexities of allyship and shame, and how moments of honest vulnerability can bridge divides and foster real support.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Experience of Trans Silence and Isolation
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Sandy’s Reality Post-Election:
After Trump’s reelection and a flood of anti-trans bills, Sandy describes living with daily anxiety:“I subscribe to and follow lots of media that's made by queer and trans people... Otherwise I wouldn't even hear the latest in terms of what have they done to my rights in the night this time, right?... This is so very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad.” (03:08)
Trans people feel pervasive distress, in sharp contrast to the seemingly undisturbed world around them. -
Noticing the Public Silence:
Sandy and other trans people observed that, unlike previous political flashpoints, the outcry from cis allies is muted or absent. Yowei remarks:“Why didn't I say anything with my small platform?” (05:35)
Sandy describes no one reaching out after the election, intensifying feelings of abandonment and invisibility:
“It feels like...no one cares.” (05:13)
The Complexity of Male Socialization & Privilege
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How Gender Shifted Sandy’s Social Interactions:
Having experienced both femme and male social worlds, Sandy observes:“Men are allowed to say nothing... When I was high femme...I couldn't appear in public without people commenting on me. Women wanted to make small talk...now no one talks to me.” (01:55)
Yowei jokes about the introvert appeal:
“As an introvert, this sounds very appealing to me, honestly.” (02:36)
Sandy's wry response:
“Male privilege.” (02:41)
Grappling with the Lack of Ally Action
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Seeking Empathy, Not Just Outrage:
Sandy reflects on why standard shaming or blaming posts ("listen up, you bums, get to work") are ineffective, emphasizing a need for accessible, inviting advocacy:“The more I can sort of put it out like a plate of cheese and ooh, the better we will do.” (08:24)
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Growing Bitterness and the Temptation of Self-Pity:
Sandy admits the difficulty in not becoming bitter, and the allure of “luxuriating in feeling loathed”:“To steep in self pity is tempting, right?...The idea that actually a lot of the people out there, they don't hate you as much as...the silence...might lead you to think—that itself has been...reassuring.” (18:25)
Breaking the Silence: A Generous Experiment
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Inviting CIS People Into Dialogue:
Sandy posts a seemingly simple question:“CIS folks, what made you start caring about trans rights?” (09:24)
The deluge of honest, complex responses surprises and uplifts him. He describes it as:
“The portal I was looking for...I want to have a conversation...like, ‘Excuse me, you are killing us. Can you stop?’ And I'm like, oh my God, I wasn't expecting you to...answer, but as long as you're here, let's get into it.” (10:07)
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Memorable Responses from CIS Allies:
Stories ranged from personal awakenings to admissions of previous wrongdoing.- One powerful story from an ER worker:
“Just saw two trans kids in the ED after self harm when everyone, parents included, cast them out or worse. I decided if no one was going to give a shit about these children, I sure as shit was.” (11:13)
- Sandy admits feeling envy at supportive parents, while also being moved by honest stories of growth through past transphobia and correction by peers.
- One powerful story from an ER worker:
The Power and Limits of Shame
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Shame as Barrier:
Yowei acknowledges hesitating to share her own story out of fear her “why I care” is inadequate or offensive (21:45).Sandy is quick to dispel this:
“Whatever it is everyone's feeling, it's all fine. So I don't know, I'm just curious what it is that's got you all worked up.” (22:49)
He likens this dynamic to white people’s discomfort discussing race, insisting:
“If you mess up, you're not bad, you made a mistake. And I think we have a culture that taught us that if you mess up, you're bad...We can actually evolve it.” (23:19)
Allyship: Performative or Powerful?
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The Call for Visible Allyship:
Sandy eagerly welcomes even so-called “performative” ally behaviors:“The post was an encouragement to perform. Perform away. Perform your allyship.” (26:41) “Perform your heart out, guys. I would love more performative CIS allies right now.” (27:53) “The more that you normalize CIS people supporting trans people and our rights, the more that other CIS people will feel like it's okay to do so...Perform away allies. When it's too much, I'll let you know.” (28:34)
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Social Change Requires Visibility:
Sandy uses a historical analogy from the evolution of germ theory, underscoring that normalization through social cues (not just belief) is vital to progress. -
Concrete Actions for Allies:
Sandy advocates for:- Protests and political engagement
- Financial and emotional support for trans people and media
- Reaching out directly to trans friends
- Public, visible allyship in everyday spaces
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Male Privilege and Social Silence:
Sandy: “Men are allowed to say nothing...now no one talks to me.” (01:57) -
On Trans Rights and Abandonment: Sandy: “My rights are under such attack all the time. I can barely, like, eat food...How am I supposed to respond if someone goes on vacation?...It must be nice to have a passport that you feel safe going across the border with.” (06:19)
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On Tuning Out Shame: Sandy: “If you mess up, you're not bad, you made a mistake...We were all taught a lot of hateful shit, made us think this and that, and we can actually evolve it.” (23:19)
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On Visible Allyship: Sandy: “The more that you normalize CIS people supporting trans people and our rights, the more that other CIS people will feel like it's okay to do so. Like perform away allies when it's too much, I'll let you know.” (28:34)
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On Community and Hope: Sandy: “I do often feel alone...and then thousands and thousands of people kind of replying with this sense of like, here's why I care...That basic idea, having that entered into my heart has helped...It says to me that I have a shot.” (18:01)
Critical Timestamps
- 01:57 — Sandy describes social differences after transitioning
- 03:08 — The emotional toll of relentless attacks on trans rights
- 05:13 — The weight of public and personal silence after the election
- 09:24 — Sandy posts his question, inviting CIS people to share
- 11:13 — Read-aloud of moving CIS ally responses
- 14:32 — Matthew recounts being corrected by a friend on transphobia
- 18:25 — Sandy on resisting the seduction of self-pity, finding hope
- 22:49 — Sandy reassures Yowei about sharing imperfect allyship stories
- 26:41 — Open invitation to performative, visible allyship
- 27:53 — Lesson from germ theory: change requires visible, social cues
- 28:34 — Sandy’s call for more CIS allies to publicly show up
Episode Highlight: Personal Stories and Advocacy
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The episode’s emotional centerpiece is Sandy’s reading and reflection on the flood of responses to his online question, including admissions of transphobia, stories of learning and changing, and occasionally, touching on the envy and pain that can come with witnessing others’ easier paths (11:13 — 14:32).
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Yowei’s vulnerability in sharing her own hesitant “why I care” story, and Sandy’s response, beautifully models the kind of open, hopeful dialogue the episode advocates (21:45 — 25:23).
Closing Moment: Music & Affirmation
- 33:07 — The episode closes with Sandy singing a cover of James Blake’s "Say What You Will", an intimate, moving coda underscoring the resilience and hope at the center of the conversation.
Takeaways
- Allyship is most powerful when it’s active, visible, and imperfect, not silent or shamed into inaction.
- Real change happens not just through laws or science, but when people see each other supporting one another.
- Even in the face of overwhelming silence or hostility, small acts of connection and shared humanity can profoundly shift perspectives—for both allies and the people they seek to support.
Links and Resources:
For Listeners Seeking to Act
- Be visible and proactive in your support—perform it, don't just feel it.
- Reach out to trans friends and acquaintances. Even a brief message can matter.
- Contribute to or signal-boost trans journalists and organizations.
- “Luxuriate” less in shame or fear of messing up—action, even if awkward, is what counts.
Host: Yowei Shaw
Guest: Sandy Ernest Allen
Produced by: Y3 Productions
Aired: August 26, 2025
“Perform your heart out, guys. I would love more performative CIS allies right now.” — Sandy Ernest Allen (27:53)