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Pursuit of Wellness
Is Your Cookware Making You Sick? The Truth About Toxins in the Kitchen w/ Jordan Nathan of Caraway
00:24:27
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- [00:00]
Jordan
The apartment's filled of fumes and I start feeling a little bit sick and my wife's like, hey, let's just like call Poison control and see if everything's okay. So we give Poison Control a call and they say, what type of pam were you cooking off of? I say, a non stick. And then, you know, they let me know that I was likely exposed to Teflon poisoning.
- [00:17]
Mari Llewellyn
This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn.
- [00:27]
Unknown
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness. I am so excited for today's episode because we are diving into a topic that has become incredibly important in my life. And I know it's on a lot of minds listening as well. Non toxic living. And to help us navigate this, we have an amazing guest today, Jordan, the CEO of Caraway. Now, if you're not familiar with caraway, although I don't know how you wouldn't be at this point because we talk about them all the time. They have completely transformed the way we think about cookware. Not only are their products absolutely stunning, I mean, the design alone makes you want to keep them out and about on the stove, in the kitchen. They're also made with the non toxic materials that keep harmful chemicals out of your food and ultimately your body. I found out some crazy statistics in my conversation with Jordan about just how quickly chemicals can leak into our food from different cookware. So you're going to want to keep listening. I'm not just a fan of Coy. I am a super, super fan. Bloom loved Caraway so much, we actually gifted their cookware as holiday gifts to our entire team. Last year, we sent caraway pans to our friends, family, even the podcast team. We are all obsessed. That's how much we believe in their products and their mission. Honestly, the look on people's faces when they open those gifts were priceless. It really makes the perfect gift. So if you're looking for something highly, highly, highly recommend and everyone who comes in my house always asks me about my caraway pans. I'm so thrilled to have Jordan on the show today. He's not just a CEO of a company we love. He's someone who truly understands the importance of non toxic lifestyle and making it more accessible for everyone. His knowledge and passion for creating safer, better products is inspiring and I cannot wait for you to hear his perspective. I'll admit, when I first started learning about the impact of toxins in everyday lives, I was overwhelmed. There's so many different things we can be doing, but this really simplifies it. It's not just about what we eat or the skincare products we use. It's about the materials we cook with, the air we breath breathe, and the choices we make in our homes. Jordan has been at the forefront of making that shift easier by creating products that don't just work, they elevate our everyday routines. In today's episode, we're diving deep into the why behind Caraway, Jordan's journey as a CEO and how they've grown into a brand that's not only beloved by home cooks, but well trusted experts and enthusiasts everywhere. We're also going to talk about some actionable steps we can take to reduce our exposure to harmful chemicals, starting in the kitchen. So whether you're already a Caraway devotee like I am or you're curious about how to make your home healthier, I know you're going to love this conversation. Jordan's insights are eye opening, practical and empowering.
- [03:02]
Mari Llewellyn
I'm so excited to announce that we have a 20 off discount for our listeners only. This exclusive deal is a limited time offer and only available until February 24th, so visit CarawayHome.com Mari or use code Mari at checkout to get 20% off your order.
- [03:19]
Unknown
So without further ado, let's welcome Jordan, the CEO of Caraway, to the show.
- [03:24]
Mari Llewellyn
Jordan, welcome to the show.
- [03:26]
Jordan
Thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.
- [03:28]
Mari Llewellyn
So excited to have you. Caraway is one of my favorite cookware brands. They've heard me talk about it a million times. You are the founder and CEO of Caraway Cookware and I feel like this is perfect timing with the holidays. Everyone's cooking, baking, all the cookware is out and I really want to make sure we talk about why non toxic cookware is so important. I think people are getting more and more educated around cookware and why it's important to be conscious of the toxins that could be in the materials used. But let's start all the way at the beginning. I'd love to hear about your journey in launching Caraway. How did it come to be?
- [04:04]
Jordan
Always been an entrepreneur. I actually launched my first business out of college which was a E commerce marketplace. Worked on that for a year or two. Unfortunately didn't make it, but it was a great experience. I then joined a company called Mohawk Group, which was a holding company of Amazon Brands based in New York and I was put on the kitchen brand to lead that and got my first kind of taste of the kitchen world and spent two or three years there, spent A lot of time going to factories, kind of learning manufacturing processes, materials. And throughout the experience, saw a lot of practices at manufacturers that weren't super eco friendly. And I actually had a really scary experience with a Teflon pan, which is how this all kind of started. So we were looking to launch a new Teflon coated pan. Like most products, I would bring them home to test out. And it was this kind of bright orange pan that I brought home one night to test, put on my burner, started cooking, and my dad called, like, right as I turned on the flame. And I completely forgot that I left the pan on the open flame. And it was like a classic New York City kitchen where like the kitchen's walled off from the the living room. So I walk over to the living room, I'm on the call for about 45 minutes. I forget that the flame's on with an open pan. I'm not paying attention, get off the call. I start smelling fumes. I don't think very much of it. And then I ended up walking past the kitchen and I see a bunch of smoke. The pan that was bright orange was completely black. And about an hour later, the apartment's filled of fumes and I start feeling a little bit sick. And my wife's like, hey, let's just like call poison control and see if everything's okay. So we give poison control a call and they say, what type of pan were you cooking off of? I say, a non stick. And then they let me know that I was likely exposed to Teflon poisoning. And it got to a point where we got in bed that night, we had all the windows open and I rolled over to my wife. I was like, are we gonna wake up in the morning? This seems extremely dangerous. So the next day I headed to the office. I don't think I worked that day. I just basically went down a rabbit hole on Teflon and kitchen materials. And I think, interestingly, I was selling a lot of these products already, but never had really investigated, like, what we were selling and putting out into the world and found out how dangerous and toxic it was. And kind of from that experience saw an opportunity to build our brand around non toxic materials and kind of took my learnings in the kitchen space. And we launched Caraway in November 2019.
- [06:36]
Mari Llewellyn
Wow. So what is Teflon exactly? Like, why would someone put that in a pan?
- [06:42]
Jordan
Yeah, so Teflon was created back in the 1930s. It was actually formed during the Manhattan Project and the atomic bomb to kind of house the uranium and so it was built as like this military grade material that was impenetrable.
- [06:58]
Mari Llewellyn
Wow.
- [06:59]
Jordan
And made its way into kind of like the Cold War and spaceships and everything. And at some point it got commercialized and cookware was one of the first products that it was put onto. And the reason why Teflon is such a great material is it's super nonstick. So Teflon today can be found in anything that's water repellent, carpets, couches, raincoats, it's in diapers, it's in cookware. It's such a formidable material that it's so widely used and made its way into kind of cookware and kitchen products and is a material that has been linked to pretty much every type of cancer. It's been linked to lower sperm counts, behavior, behavioral issues. It affects your sleep, it affects your gut health. So essentially everything. And it's been used in kind of cookware and kitchenware for decades at this point.
- [07:51]
Mari Llewellyn
It's wild because I think, you know, now we're talking about Caraway and we're hearing more about non toxic living. But I feel like for a very long time no one really thought about what's in the pans we're using. It was more about, well, actually caraway is really easy to clean as well. Somehow you guys managed to pull that off too. But before caraway was like, oh, if it's easy to clean, then it's a good pan. But we didn't think about, okay, well what's actually leaking into our food from heating up these materials in the actual pan? What are some of the other chemicals you noticed being used in the marketplace and things you intentionally left out of Caraway?
- [08:32]
Jordan
Yeah. So with our initial product line, which we launched, which was our cookware, our goal is to get Teflon off of shelves. And Teflon's really over time, taken a path where it has changed over time in the market. And so about two decades ago there was this material called pfoa, which was an all nonstick cookware. And it actually got banned by the government. And the thing that's dangerous in Teflon is the fluorine chemical. And so brands basically shifted to a slight alteration of pfoa, which is ptfe, which made its way back into cookware. And so there aren't as many studies today as there were at PFOA at the time it was banned. And those are really starting to come out now. And so as we launched into the market, the main chemical that we were looking to solve for was Teflon. But you also find lead, cadmium, heavy metals within cookware. And then as kind of the brands expanded, we started with cookware, we're now in food storage, kitchen gadgets, tea kettles, and you find a lot of microplastics in those items. And so as the brand has really grown, that word non toxic has expanded for us. And, you know, today we're really tackling kind of Teflon, microplastics and lead.
- [09:47]
Mari Llewellyn
I feel like you guys also have achieved this, like, really aesthetic look. Like people really know Caraway for the amazing colors, the look of them. Like, I leave them out on my stove because I love how the kettle looks. I love how everything looks. Was it challenging to create products that are aesthetically pleasing, easy to clean, easy to store, and avoiding all of these chemicals?
- [10:12]
Jordan
Very challenging to do all four of those things. I think when we launch the brand, and I always come back to like, I am the Caraway consumer and like, what would I want? And I think often we don't associate eco friendly and non toxic with beautiful. And I think when developing the brand, we wanted to create something that really was like the marketing vehicle to sell non toxic. If you create something that people want to leave out and buy for the aesthetic and it happens to also be safe to use, we saw that as a big gap in the market. And one of just the big challenges we have with our product development is most of the factories out there, they're using plastics, they're using Teflon, and you go to them with a new R and D project, with just a new material that you want to use on a new item. And most of the factories don't want to make those products, and they say no. And so one of our hardest parts in manufacturing is finding the right factory who's willing to change their process, use different materials. And then taking a look at our packaging, we use no single use plastics. We have really heavy items. Our cookware set, which is our best seller, is 35 pounds. And we have to support it with all cardboard on the inside. And again, not every manufacturer wants to pack that. That's a lot of cardboard to use. And so, you know, we're really intentional and thoughtful with the materials that we choose in the products. And it comes with a higher cost, but also, you know, it's better for your health and the environment.
- [11:40]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah, I would imagine it's a lot more expensive than some of the other cookware on the market because there's all this thought and care and special materials in it. How do you feel like the consumer education has evolved from when you first launched Caraway to now. Like, do you feel like the awareness has grown?
- [11:59]
Jordan
I'd say significantly so. When we launched, I do think most people knew that like Teflon was bad, but maybe not, not why it was bad. I think when Covid hit and everyone started being more focused on their health and what they were ingesting in their body and you know, we've seen this wave of healthier living and eating. Consumers over time have been, I think, increasingly educating themselves on what's out there. And I think interestingly, ceramic had been on the market for about 10 years before we launched. And kind of the gap that we saw was brands who were selling it, were promoting it as eco friendly, but nobody was talking about the non toxic properties. And so Caraway and a few other brands who have kind of entered the market, I think have helped educate the consumer and push the narrative that there are alternatives on the market. And really, as kind of time goes on, I think Even the past six to 12 months, microplastics is having a huge wave. Right now there's a ton of articles on black plastics that you're cooking with and removing those from the kitchen. And so I think the consumer is becoming more aware. I think we're still at the beginning stages of consumers waking up to what's in your kitchen and your home and your air quality and water. And so I think we're, we're at that exciting stage and I still think there's a lot of work to do. But it's great to see the consumer sentiment shifting.
- [13:21]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah, and it's awesome that you guys are prevalent on podcasts and you are speaking on podcasts. I think it's very educational. We were talking before about Mike Feldstein, the founder of Jasper. There's some amazing non toxic brands coming out for every part of your life. Whether it's air quality, which also relates to cooking. I'm sure the Jasper reacts to using Teflon versus something like Caraway. Water quality is such a big one too. What are some of the non toxic practices you follow in addition to cookware and being careful with these chemicals?
- [13:56]
Jordan
I think what's great is a lot of the alternatives exist out there in some way, shape or form. And I think a good start is like looking across your home and kitchen as to where you can get rid of plastic. A lot of gas stoves are. The fumes that are emitted every time you cook are super dangerous. And so if you have the means to move to an induction stove Top, that's definitely the safest out there. Everything from the dish soaps that you use to keeping your hood range on while you're cooking are all really important practices. And then like you said, water and air play a big part as well. So PFAS and Teflon is actually in a lot of our water today. And when you actually put it in like a Dutch oven and the Dutch oven's heating up, it takes two and a half minutes for Teflon to start leaching into your food. And so, you know, you want to have a non toxic pan, but you also want to have water that's safe to cook with. And if the Teflon's then leaching in your water, it's then leaching into the air. So it's really like a 360 point of view. And I think overall you need to tackle it from kind of all areas.
- [15:03]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah, it's a lot to think about and I think some people get overwhelmed, but it really doesn't have to be too complicated. I think if you're using cookware like caraway that's toxic free, maybe you get a water purifier that focuses on removing PFAs. You have your air purifier like you're, you're kind of doing a lot just by getting those three things sorted out. And that impacts like your kids, your pets, everything. The cleaning products are important too, but there are so many amazing brands coming out now that are focused on this and I think people care. Like, I have a lot of guests on the show talking about infertility issues, rising sperm count, as you mentioned, gut health problems, pcos. Like, to me it feels like a bit of an epidemic with people's inner health. And these things are starting to come to the surface in like hormonal problems, infertility and really big issues. And I think a lot of it is coming from the toxins that we're exposed to every day. So if we can build a sanctuary at home and make sure everything at home is within our control, then we can kind of go out and handle the chemicals in the environment that maybe we can't avoid.
- [16:13]
Jordan
Totally. And I think one of the challenges is you don't feel the effects right away. And you know, if you're cooking off of something that is toxic over the course of your lifetime, it's going to end up showing, you know, later in life. And I think with just all these choices, it's hard to do everything at once. But I think taking it step by step and being really mindful about the products that you choose. And I have a 10 month old son and that's been a really just interesting experience because everything that we buy, we want to use glass as much as we can. We want to get rid of silicone and plastic as much as possible. And it's tough. There's a lot of products out there that are utility base, that are great to travel with, that don't break and you know, I think challenging to make some of those decisions, but, you know, you want to be mindful about the materials that you're using.
- [17:02]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah. You probably have such a different perspective on 100% these items because you're like, I know exactly what's in that. I don't want him to hear that. How do you navigate, I guess, like the baby industry with all the products out there? Like, how do you know what's good for him and what isn't?
- [17:17]
Jordan
Yeah. I think generally try to avoid plastic as much as possible. And again, it's tough. Like, we try to use glass bottles as much as we can, but they're hard to travel with. They might break. All the nipples on the bottles are made with silicone, which is an inert material and typically a safe, but it is a synthetic. When it comes to toys, we usually aim for wood toys, but they're also harder and our son could hit his head and get injured. And so there's definitely a balance. But I think where applicable and where we can make the right decision, we try to get away from plastics as much as possible.
- [17:53]
Mari Llewellyn
So you mentioned the best selling Caraway product. You said it was the starter kit, right? Yep, that's right. Okay. What's in the starter kit?
- [18:00]
Jordan
Yeah, so it's our core cookware set. It comes with four pots and pans, a Dutch oven, a saucepan, a fry pan and saute pan. And a lot of what we try to do with our sets is try to pair out the pieces that you don't need, give you just everything that the average home cook would want to use and then opportunity to add on over time.
- [18:19]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah. A lot of the pans I've bought come with like different layers, like one for vegetable, one for meat. There's like a spoon holder on the top. Like everything's kind of all in one and it seems like very efficiently designed, I guess. Was that the goal from the beginning to have this, like all in one, easy to use pan?
- [18:39]
Jordan
It was.
- [18:40]
Mari Llewellyn
So.
- [18:40]
Jordan
When we were talking with consumers early on, I think one of the challenges on the market were you had all these brands touting like a 30 piece count and 25 piece count and they're counting every little piece in the box. Even though, you know, I think some of it was misleading. And you ended up with these big sets and all these pieces that you didn't actually need for your common home. And so we really wanted to pare it back and put that extra cost into improving the materials that you're cooking with.
- [19:06]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah.
- [19:07]
Jordan
And I think one of the just design philosophies that we have is these products for essentially like 23 hours out of the day are not being used. And so one just common challenge we saw with the household was you open your cabinets and you've got your like Tupper Lanch coming down with all your Tupperware. Your gadget drawer is just a complete mess. Yeah, people don't know how to store their cookware. And so we wanted to create a really, you know, thoughtful solution to storing them, but also maintaining them. And, you know, the longer that your cookware can last, you know, the better for the environment it is.
- [19:40]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah. The sets come with this like really cool storage. I mean, what's it made out of? It's like almost like a felt or a fabric.
- [19:47]
Jordan
Yep. It's just like a, I think organic cotton linen that we use.
- [19:52]
Mari Llewellyn
I love it. And it slots right in my cabinet. And then I have all my pans organized. I'm not a very organized person. And it makes it super easy. Like you just open the cabinets all lined up right there. I think that's genius. I think people do have a really hard time storing these things. And while I leave like some of the stuff on top, I have it organized underneath, which is really nice. Do you and your wife have a most used caraway item in your house?
- [20:18]
Jordan
I'd say our rondeau, which is like everything pot, I would call it. So we leave it out on the stovetop. We probably cook 75% of our meals in it.
- [20:28]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah.
- [20:29]
Jordan
And then I'd say my favorite products probably are tea kettle. So I also like that you can leave it out. It's beautiful.
- [20:36]
Mari Llewellyn
I think that's my favorite too. And you said you like the green, the sage green.
- [20:39]
Jordan
That's right, yeah.
- [20:39]
Mari Llewellyn
I mean, all I talk about is the sage green pans on here. Everyone knows I'm obsessed with green. So what advice would you give to other entrepreneurs, young entrepreneurs wanting to make an impact in the wellness space, in the non toxic space?
- [20:53]
Jordan
I think create the product that you feel is the safest and best for the environment? I see a lot of brands cutting corners and you know, worried about can I sell at this price point? And I think you want to focus on putting out the best product. And you know, I think starting fresh is a great place where you can develop your brand and really educate the consumer on why the price is what it is. And so I think product quality and as the next generation of brands, it's on us to help the environment and improve health. And it's really important to put that at the forefront over worrying about price or are people going to buy it at this price point? I think you can build a brand around that and it's most important to build a product first that you feel really good putting out there.
- [21:39]
Mari Llewellyn
Yeah. And I think it's really interesting you speaking about the Teflon poisoning experience because I think a lot of us don't take action until something big happens. Like for me, I had my weight loss journey. That's what led me to building my brand. You went through this Teflon poisoning. Like, I think sometimes our own, like pain becomes our purpose or our own, like downfalls end up being the thing that we create impact from. And I really believe that. So I feel like for anyone listening who does want to make an impact in business, like look at what you've kind of been through and what brings you passion and what fires you up every day. And it seems like you've done exactly that with Caraway. What would you say is next for Caraway? Do you guys want to expand into other product categories like storefronts? What are you guys thinking?
- [22:25]
Jordan
Yeah, so we are Caraway Home for a reason. We are building this brand to be one that's around for the next hundred years. And we're kind of in inning one right now. But as you've seen, we've started to tackle other issues within the kitchen. And while I can't kind of hint at what's coming, you know, we do see a lot of areas within the home and kitchen that can be improved when it comes to the materials. And so we're excited to expand what that means and really start allowing consumers to buy into a non toxic home.
- [22:57]
Mari Llewellyn
I can't wait. I'm so excited. Can you share with everyone where they can find Caraway cookware?
- [23:02]
Jordan
Yeah, you can find us on carawayhome.com, amazon and Target, Crate and Barrel, Container Store and a handful of other retailers.
- [23:11]
Mari Llewellyn
Amazing. And guys, a reminder, I do have a specific link for Caraway with the show in the description box, so make sure you use that. Jordan, thank you so much for joining us.
- [23:21]
Jordan
Of course. Thanks so much for having me.
- [23:30]
Mari Llewellyn
Thank you for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness Podcast to support this show. Please rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my favorites@marilewellyn.com it will be linked in the show Notes this podcast is a Pursuit Network production brought to you by Michaela Phillips, Joel Contartese, Daviel Waldner, Jen Lauren and Mackenzie Meisel. You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Love you POW girls and POW boys. I will see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, talk to your doctor or health team.