The Mind of an Ultramarathon Runner: Matt Choi on Mental Strength and Endurance

Summary

Pursuit of Wellness: The Mind of an Ultramarathon Runner with Matt Choi

Hosted by Mari Llewellyn

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Pursuit of Wellness, host Mari Llewellyn sits down with Matt Choi, a renowned ultramarathoner and content creator based in Austin. This discussion delves deep into Matt's transformative journey from his challenging childhood to becoming a dedicated endurance athlete, exploring themes of mental strength, discipline, and personal growth.

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Early Life and Influences

Matt Choi opens up about his upbringing, highlighting the significant impact of being raised by a single mother alongside an older brother. Moving frequently during his childhood—living in New Jersey, Las Vegas, and Maryland—instilled in him adaptability and resilience.

"[...] the different adversity that you go through, kind of not having, like, a fatherly figure in your house all the time played a role in me really enjoying sports and finding passion in it."
[02:28] Matt Choi

These experiences fostered his love for sports, providing him with mentorship and a sense of stability through athletic endeavors.

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Transition from American Football to Ultramarathon Running

Matt recounts his transition from being a Division 1 football player to embracing ultramarathon running, a shift that prompted an identity crisis.

"I kind of hung up the cleats and started to have my own little identity crisis of, like, who am I if I don't have this sport that I spent and dedicated my life to?"
[05:00] Matt Choi

Running became a catalyst for redefining his identity, helping him move beyond his past in football and discover a new realm of personal achievement and endurance.

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Influence of David Goggins

A pivotal moment in Matt's mental transformation was reading David Goggins' book, "Can't Hurt Me," which profoundly influenced his mindset.

"Goggins has definitely transformed me and you and so many millions of people."
[08:25] Matt Choi

Matt emphasizes the importance of embracing discomfort and failure, aligning with Goggins' philosophy of building mental resilience.

"Being uncomfortable and failing is okay."
[07:59] Matt Choi

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Mental Strength and Overcoming Doubts

The conversation shifts to the psychological aspects of ultramarathon running. Matt discusses the mental battles runners face during long races, such as self-doubt and the temptation to quit.

"Over a couple hours or a marathon, there's a lot of mental doubt and insecurities that start to creep in—like, just stop, why continue?"
[05:10] Matt Choi

He shares personal anecdotes illustrating the unwavering determination required to push through pain and maintain focus on long-term goals.

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Running as a Tool for Personal Growth

Matt describes running not just as a physical challenge but as a profound vehicle for personal development. He highlights how running has helped him build discipline, enhance his mental space, and foster a relentless pursuit of self-improvement.

"Running is like a challenge. It's a vehicle for me to prove to myself that I can do hard things."
[15:56] Matt Choi

His perspective underscores running's role in nurturing a growth mindset, applicable beyond athletics into everyday life and professional endeavors.

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Ultramarathon Insights: Preparation and Nutrition

Matt offers valuable insights into the logistics of ultramarathon running, focusing on gear selection, particularly footwear, and nutritional strategies essential for endurance racing.

"Most shoes should have durability to run 300 or 400 miles. It's really individual, like a diet—no one size fits all."
[18:27] Matt Choi

He discusses the importance of adaptability in nutrition, sharing his preference for intuitive eating over strict calorie tracking:

"I'm probably eating anywhere from 3,500 to 4,500 calories. I'm burning probably similar."
[24:45] Matt Choi

Matt emphasizes consuming easily digestible calories during races and the necessity of finding what works best for each runner's unique physiology.

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Content Creation and Media Strategy

Balancing his passion for running with content creation, Matt explains how he leverages media to support his athletic pursuits. He views himself as a media company, using platforms like TikTok and YouTube to share his journey, engage with a community, and create revenue streams through sponsorships.

"If I don't focus on content, I'm not going to be able to do this as a full-time job."
[39:14] Matt Choi

Matt highlights the symbiotic relationship between his running and media efforts, where content creation not only documents his experiences but also fuels his ability to compete and connect with others.

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Advice for Aspiring Runners

In offering guidance to listeners interested in ultramarathon running, Matt stresses the importance of mindset, consistency, and gradual progress.

"Never say you can't do anything. Start small, reassure yourself, and change the way you speak to yourself."
[48:08] Matt Choi

He advocates for incremental goals, such as starting with manageable distances and progressively increasing as confidence and capability grow.

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Closing Thoughts on Wellness

Concluding the episode, Matt defines wellness as creating a sustainable lifestyle that promotes longevity and continuous personal growth.

"Wellness to me means creating a sustainable lifestyle that could be repeated over time. I want to live as long as I can and function and move my body as long as possible."
[64:19] Matt Choi

His holistic view encompasses physical health, mental resilience, and the joy derived from pursuing meaningful challenges.

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Conclusion

This episode of Pursuit of Wellness offers an inspiring glimpse into the life of Matt Choi, illustrating how overcoming personal adversity and embracing the rigors of ultramarathon running can lead to profound personal transformation. Matt's journey underscores the power of mental strength, discipline, and the relentless pursuit of excellence, providing valuable lessons for listeners seeking to enhance their own well-being and pursue their best selves.

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Find Matt Choi Online:

• TikTok & Instagram: @mattchoi_6
• YouTube: Matt Choi

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Note: This summary excludes advertisement segments and focuses solely on the substantive content of the conversation between Mari Llewellyn and Matt Choi.

Transcript

[A]

Running is like a constant learning opportunity because no matter what race you do, no matter what challenge it is, even if it's not a race, like there's something you can get out of a run because it's going to hit you in a different way.

[B]

This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn. What is up, guys? Welcome back to the show. Today I am sitting down with an Austin local. He's an ultra marathoner and content creator, Matt Choi. You guys are going to love this episode. I've never had a runner on the show before and there's a lot here that we talk about with mindset, discipline, and grit. So whether or not you're a runner, I think this will be a very interesting and motivational episode. We dive deep into his journey from childhood challenges to becoming an ultra marathon runner. He shares how he rebuilt his identity after leaving American football and the powerful influence that David Goggins had on his mindset and approach to life. David Goggins is also one of my favorite people and one of my favorite books I've ever read. So we talk a lot about that. We also get into the raw realities of running and the importance of nutrition and intuitive eating. Plus the unexpected pooping your pants mid race. I had to ask about this, guys, so trigger warning if you're triggered by poop. Matt also opens up about how running has shaped his mental space, his discipline and content creation, and his advice for new runners. Whether you're into fitness or just looking for inspiration, this is full of motivation and insight. I hope you guys enjoy it. Without further ado, let's hop into this convo with Matt Choi. Matt Choi, welcome to the pursuit of wellness.

[A]

I'm so grateful to be here.

[B]

So excited to have you. You are kind of an Austin legend I've heard of.

[A]

Don't say that.

[B]

Coming out the gate strong.

[A]

That's very strong.

[B]

Well, I've heard about you from so many different people and I just told you, like, you've whizzed past me on the trail so many times. I'm like, oh my God. Matt Choi, hi. But I gotten to actually sit with you, so I'm so excited to have you. You are an endurance athlete, an ultra marathon runner. I know that's kind of the same thing, but I, I feel like you have to specify because ultra marathons are so cool and a content creator. I want to hear all about your day to day routine, the physicality of it, the mindset, but I'd love to start all the way at the beginning and just hear about your childhood and, like, what made you who you are today.

[A]

I love that. I mean, there's so much to unpack.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think, you know, to keep it, I guess, like, simpler. Like, I got raised by a single mom. I have an older brother, and I feel like, like, the different adversity that you go through, kind of not having, like, a fatherly figure in your house all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Played a role, I think, in me really enjoying sports and me really, like, finding passion and really wanting to pursue that as something that, like, I felt like, oh, this is an area where I can get mentorship. I can get. Find a role model. I can find a fatherly figure. And the cool thing having an older brother is you kind of have someone who's, like, makes mistakes. You kind of can learn from those mistakes and hopefully not make the same. So it was an interesting childhood because we always moved a lot. And I think after my parents split when I was about three, we lived in Jersey for a couple years, then moved to Las Vegas, then to Maryland. And then I always had to adapt. And I think that's something that, as I've gotten older, I've started to appreciate more, because when I go to different events or networking stuff or moving to a new city, like, I don't feel a lot of friction when it comes to having to connect with people or meet new people or make friends or, like, just to communicate and things of that sort. So I think when I was younger, you kind of, like, you're always like, mom, but, like, I just made new friends. You're like, I don't want to move again, and you have that feeling. But I think over time, I've realized that, like, it's almost become a blessing. And I think something I've always learned from my mom was just like, you know, like, the price of hard work and, like, what it looks like to kind of play that role as a single mom. And at the time, when you're young, you don't really appreciate it as much until you get older and you start to see, like, my friends that have kids now and, like, how much of a struggle it is to have both parents in the household, let alone just having one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think. I know that's a lot I just said, but, like, that's kind of, like a background of, like, my childhood. I moved a lot. Very adaptable. And I think the chip on my shoulder that I've gotten just from being raised by a single mom is. Is definitely something I Still hold true. True right now.

[B]

Yeah. I almost wonder if the moving around and change in lifestyle, it adds to your grittiness too, because I know I can relate a lot. I moved a ton as a kid. My dad works for the un, so we were bopping around all over the place. And I do feel like moving is a very chill thing for me. I don't even think about it twice. Um, and I'm sure it adds to, to the mindset that you have pushing yourself through these new situations and even, like, challenges. I know you were a Division 1 football player and now you're a runner. So, like, what does that shift look like in terms of, like, as an athlete, but also with your mindset?

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's completely different. I mean, obviously with, like, American football, like, you know, so much of what you're doing is around, like, five to six seconds of effort, right? It's a lot of speed and explosion and power, but, like, in endurance, it's so much more of a sustained effort and you have to, like, endure for a longer period of time. And that suffering is not as, like, it doesn't hurt as much in just, like, the moment, but like, over a course of a couple hours or a marathon or whatever distance you're covering, like, there's a lot of mental doubt and insecurities that start to creep in of, like, just stop, like, why continue? You know? So I think a lot of that adaptation happened as I one got out of football and I kind of hung up the cleats and I started to have, like, my own, like, little identity crisis of, like, who am I if I don't have this sport that I spent and dedicated my life to, right? And I think for me, like, after school, like, I kind of went through that year and a half, two year phase where I was kind of like, damn. Like, I almost felt like my identity was lost and, like, rebuilding that back up. And I think running was honestly a catalyst in that process of, like, me almost, like, redefining who I am and like, me being more than just a football player. And I always say this, like, I was a very poor student, and I think it was something that it just, like academics never like, stimulated me to, like, really want to, like, pursue it and like, go all in. But, like, football, for whatever reason, I just, like, not that it came easy to me, but I just had, like, a passion for it. And I think after that was done, like, I don't think humans just lose that fire, right? Like, we have that fire inside. It's Just, you gotta find the next thing that can ignite it. And for me, like, at the time, it was like, all right. I wanted to kind of get into personal training and content creation and, like, that's the start of it. And then from there, like, the running stuff kind of happened because the pandemic. And I was like, I got laid off as a trainer. I couldn't work at a gym anymore. And I'm like, all right, well, like, I had read that book by David Goggins, Can't Hurt Me. And I just wanted to, like, find something that could.

[B]

I'm dying right now.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a big Goggins fan and I'm like, he's truly, like, transformed my life and. And has helped me develop and really, like, build on that mental callousing.

[B]

I'm so happy you brought him up. I was going to. I was going to ask you, have you read the book? Because that book changed my life. I've told the community before. I read it about six times when I was losing 90 pounds back in the day. And it was. It's not so much about, like, it's about the nothing can affect me and it's embracing the pain. Like, that was a really big learning lesson for me because I also wasn't a good student and I didn't have. I didn't have the most discipline growing up. Like, I felt like I was kind of sort of just floating around being average, quote, unquote. And this concept of, like, pain is good was like, a really big light bulb moment for me. Was it for you, too?

[A]

100%. And not even, like, the pain is good, but it's just that being uncomfortable and failing is okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think for a lot of people, we, like, a lot of people live through life, like, being afraid to fail and, like, the judgment that you're going to get from your peers or your parents or other people of like, oh, my God, like, what makes you think you could do this? Like, see, I told you it wasn't going to work out. Like, all of those kind of, like, voices that pop into, like, our circles in a sense. Like, I think when I read that book, like, and, you know, Goggins has definitely transformed me and you and, like, so many millions of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And some people maybe take it the wrong way. Like, they take the messaging almost too harshly, where I think you have to look at, like, the framework of what he's talking about of, like, I think for most people, like, doing things out of your comfort zone and getting more comfortable with failure. Like, these are things that are. Will be only beneficial if people actually put into practice. So obviously the distance that he's running and like, some of the very, like, physical things that he does, like, it's not going to relate for a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think you have to look at more like, how he's seeing these challenges and his mindset around it. Yes.

[B]

And, like, apply it to where you're at, period. Totally. No, I love him.

[A]

Most people won't ever run 100 mile races.

[B]

No.

[A]

Ever?

[B]

I never have.

[A]

But, like, you got something out of it.

[B]

Yes. And I kept showing up at the gym and, like, forcing myself to do uncomfortable things. Have you met him?

[A]

I have not yet.

[B]

Oh, my God, I would die to meet him. I would die to meet him. I would be so afraid, though. Like, I'd be.

[A]

I think everyone would be, like, a little intimidated just because of, like, his.

[B]

His face.

[A]

Yeah. His aura, his whole aura is just like.

[B]

Like, I don't think he'd crack a smile. Like, he wouldn't be like, hi, nice to meet you. He'd be like, yeah, hello. You know What I mean?

[A]

100%.

[B]

What an icon.

[A]

I mean, I agree.

[B]

I've actually asked him to be on the show and he responded okay. And he was like, I don't really do that, but if I ever want to, I'll let you know.

[A]

Yo, I will say, like, to get Goggins, like, because he's only done. He's done a few pods.

[B]

Yeah. But he doesn't like to.

[A]

Yes. Like, it's not like he says it all the time when he even goes on them. Right. He's like, yo, I'd rather be like, yeah, in the suffering right now than talking about the things I've done. Right. Which I, you know what I do respect. Right. Like, I think for him, like, he's already submitted so many mountains, but yet his constant pursuit of it is something that I truly do respect. And I. I think it's something that I've also kind of ingrained in myself where it's like, you know, a lot of people, they'll run a marathon once and they'll be like, never again. Right. They'll put the 26.2 on their car and they'll just use that as, like, the glory day of, like, I've done a marathon. But I think there's something to be said about, like, continuing to show up even after you've had success.

[B]

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[A]

I mean, I think there's. I mean, I guess I'll speak for myself. Like, I think there's, there's elements of running from like, like maybe like your trauma. Like, maybe it is like, like it could, I think 100%. There's definitely elements of that. Yeah, I think looking at that from like a more positive way though, I think for me it's always been now, like I've now almost gotten like addicted to the feeling of like accomplishing something that you say you're going to do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. So I think at first it was kind of like, oh, like, let me just. I wanted to learn more about, like, what I could do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think running is something that is so tangible. It's like, oh, you say you can't do this. All it takes is some time to then prove yourself wrong. That. No, wait, hold on. Like, I can do five miles. I can do 10. And I think now it's like this pursuit for me is less of it being around, like, the trauma, but it's more around, like, continuing to learn, like, what I can do as a human.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And running is just like this challenge. It's a vehicle for me to almost prove it to myself that, like, oh, like, I can do these things. I can do hard things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now what that does to my everyday life, whether it's in content or in business, it's like, it helps allow me to think that, like. Like, nothing's impossible.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You know?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And I think everyone runs for different reasons. So it's like, I think where I'm at now is maybe a little bit different than even when I first started.

[B]

Yeah. I think a lot of times, because many people I've sat with, like you, who accomplish amazing things and are successful, have a chip on their shoulder and come from a place of, like, something happening in their childhood, and maybe that gets their foot in the door. But at a certain point, that doesn't take you all the way. Like, you need to decide, okay, what is my motivator now? What is my why now? Like, that, for me, was the case, like, when I started losing weight. It was like, I want to prove everyone wrong, and I want to show everyone that I can do this. And then at a certain point, I was like, wait, I think I'm doing it for me, actually. So it evolves over time.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

I want to talk about ultra marathons specifically because I am so fascinated by ultra marathons. Like, I've watched documentaries. I'm just. I have a lot of questions.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

How many miles does. Qualifies a race to be an ultra marathon?

[A]

Anything more than a marathon. So 26.2 miles or 42 kilometers. Okay. The next closest distance from that is a 50 kilometer race, which is 31.5 miles.

[B]

What's the longest marathon, ultra marathon you've ever done?

[A]

The longest I've done in one effort is 100 miles.

[B]

Wild, dude. Wild. Okay, questions about that. How do you decide what shoes you're going to wear? And, like, how do they not fall Apart.

[A]

So it depends on the terrain. So like there's ultra marathons that are on the road. Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That you would maybe wear like a road running shoe. Then there's some that are like Leadville, that you're in the mountain. And it's a different. It's like a rocky terrain where you're going to need like shoes that have a little bit more durability and grip. They'll be like legitimate like trail running shoes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So if you think about like a car, Right. It's like if you have like someone drives a 4Runner, like they're going to have more of a rugged terrain versus someone that drives like a BMW.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like something more for the road. So similar to shoes is the same thing. And then when it comes to like the shoe itself in the distance, like most shoes should have durability to run 300 or 400 miles. Like maybe not in a row, but like over the time. Right. Like it can collect that much volume of running.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

During a course of like a 50 mile race, 100 mile race, like you might need to rotate shoes out because your feet start to swell and maybe one shoe is going to be uncomfortable. And there's a whole strategy around like how each human, their foot design, their foot shape, the way that they run will dictate what kind of shoe is gonna be best for them. Even for me, like when people ask me like Matt, what shoe should I get? I'm like, well, it just depends because like it's subjective. Like what I like. Yeah, it's gonna be completely different than what's what you like or what you what might be good for your foot.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So it's really individual. It's like a diet. Right. It's like there's always, there's some tried and true frameworks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like once, not a one size fits all approach.

[B]

I think I saw a TikTok where you actually change shoes halfway through.

[A]

I did.

[B]

Okay. What was the reasoning for that? Was it an experiment?

[A]

I'm kind of like it was an experiment in a sense that like I started feeling like, like just like some nagging pain in the foot. So sometimes even just like switching out into a different pair of shoe, like with a different stack height, it can alleviate some of that pain just because like over the course of 100 miles, like you're just like, you're continuing to step in different rocks on different terrains. So like it can like start to build up on like the pain. And sometimes when you just switch out your shoe, that's A little bit softer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Something that maybe is a little bit firmer. Like, depending on what you might need in that moment, like, it could maybe alleviate some of that discomfort.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

At the end of the day, like, when you get to mile 60, 65, like, you're. You're. You're in pain regardless of what you're.

[B]

Yeah. You're like, it's gonna hurt.

[A]

It's gonna hurt, but it's just like you. You try to get to, you know, the next five miles, the next ten miles, and. And you just keep moving forward.

[B]

Do you prefer a road or a mountain?

[A]

That is a great question, Mari.

[B]

I feel like. And I'm coming from a. Like, I should do not deserve to have an opinion on this, but I feel like a road would be so boring. Like, when I saw videos of you going through the mountain, I was like, that looks fun. Cuz, like, the scenery is changing.

[A]

It's in the sense of the scenery. It's not even close.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, when you're in the mountain, when you're in the trail, like, you're just with one. You're with Mother Nature. It's like, it's. You look around and it's. It's spectacular. Like, the view that you earn, it's way better than just driving to the summit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you're not. Like, in Colorado, you could drive to the top of the summit, but, like, to walk up it, to hike up it, to run up it, like, that sense of satisfaction of getting to the top and saying, like, wow, like, I started all the way over there and now I made it to the top. It's a reward that is. It's. It's. It's hard to quantify how that feels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Equally. New York City Marathon, Boston Marathon, some of these major world road races. The energy that the city provides is also something that's equally as special in its own way.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[A]

Like, to see strangers cheer on strangers and a city come together. And especially in a diverse city like New York and Boston, like, it's like, it's amazing to see people rooting for each other when they don't even know each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's something about that when you look at the human race of, like, I think there's so much good in the world, and at times, like, mainstream media and a lot of people could look at the negatives, but I think when you go to those moments, you're like, damn, it's awesome to be alive in the sense that, like, look at this. Like, you have all these People that are just 1:50,000 plus people trying to attempt the marathon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then all these other hundreds of thousands other people cheering them on. It's like. It's like, how does that not put a smile on your face?

[B]

So special.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

There was like, a little marathon. I don't want to call it a marathon. I forget what it was. But a run in Austin, what was that called recently? Not the 10K. It was a 10K.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it was like, the first sort of run I'd witnessed. And it was like, right by my house. So I walked down the street to go cheer people on, and I was like, oh, my God, this is so cool. And like, I don't know if you know Kenny Hansen.

[A]

I do.

[B]

He ran past and he gave us a hug and he was, like, so sweaty. And I was like, go, Kenn Hansen. The Dechicos are going past our friends. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, really cool experience. And I've seen the New York City Marathon, and that was insane. And I could just see the positivity in the running community. It makes me kind of jealous. Like, it makes me want to run.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, the vibes.

[A]

We got to get you into Austin.

[B]

I know. I'm scared. It's not really my thing, Mari.

[A]

It's no one's thing to start.

[B]

I know. I knew you were going to say that. I literally knew you were going to say that.

[A]

So that's why you and I are going to have to do that. We have to do the milestone.

[B]

I know you requested that.

[A]

I requested that. I'm now, like, demanding it.

[B]

You're going to be really disappointed in me.

[A]

I have not been disappointed in anyone. Because every single time I've done that challenge with people who are always like, but, man, I'm so slow, or I'm not going to be able to do this every time we go faster than what they think they can do.

[B]

I'm so slow.

[A]

Like, slow is subjective.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We're going to make that happen.

[B]

But am I, like, talking the whole time?

[A]

You're not talking at all. I'm talking to you just to kind of, like, create commentary.

[B]

But you're like, I'm talking.

[A]

You're not going to speak any words.

[B]

Like, I might throw up. But, like, that's good content.

[A]

That would be good content. And that would also be the first. Because no one's thrown up yet.

[B]

You know what? I probably won't throw up.

[A]

I didn't throw up.

[B]

I'm being dramatic. Like, that's That's a lot. Okay, I'll do it. I will. I'll actually do it. I'll handshake right now.

[A]

You guys saw that. Here.

[B]

I'm doing it. Okay. My other questions. I'm very big on nutrition.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I'm so curious how many calories you eat every day.

[A]

So it's funny, I actually haven't tracked in a very long time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

My buddy Zach, who has. He's a macro. He's a macro guy. I actually had a chat with him recently. I'm like, bro, like, I was like, what are your thoughts on, like, how like, valuable or important would it be for me to like, maybe just like, track for like a little while? Maybe during like a training block?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was like, I mean, it just depends. Like, obviously for me, like, I'm not really training for, like, aesthetic. It's more for performance. So, like, for me to stress about every single, like, calorie in, calorie out, or every macronutrient, like. Yeah, maybe it's just like that extra time, like, could that be even more stressful than just to be like, hey, like, let me eat off, like, kind of intuitively, you know?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So right now I'm probably eating. If I guessed anywhere from 3,500 to 4,500 calories, probably.

[B]

That was my. My guess.

[A]

Like, I'm burning probably. Like, I mean, now sometimes I'm working out twice a day. Like running in the morning, kind of hitting weights in the evenings. Um, and like, even for me, like, I've basically been at my weight for the past three to five years. Like, I have not really fluctuated much, even after some of these major efforts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I like my bound, like my body kind of balances itself out.

[B]

So it's almost like you intuitively know how much you need to be eating.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I think I'm like, I'm looking at protein intake and carbohydrate intake. Like, those two are the most. And definitely getting a gram per pound of body weight for protein and then carbohydrates. I think. Actually recently I've talked to a couple of my buddies that are in like, the food space. They're like, you could actually probably consume more carbs just because I'm burning so much of glucose when I'm running, especially early in the morning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now I've kind of like, I just, like, as I've I go on, it also, like, how I feel like, energy wise. Right. Like, working out twice a day and like, trying to like, show up for content and like, doing all those things, like, it does, like, kind of burn energy quickly. So for me it's like, as long as I'm not like burning out and I'm like sleeping well, like, I look at like a lot of these things where it's like, I want to make sure like every day, like I have high energy without having to need a lot of other caffeine or other supplements that are going to like, push that over the edge, you know?

[B]

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[A]

This is a hot take. I eat after.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

I like it after. Like I just drink water in the morning and then like I'll have some greens and then immediately when I come back. I don't even drink coffee before. Like I'm a coffee after the run.

[B]

I'm the same way.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know, I just like, I wake up anxious.

[B]

That's why.

[A]

Really? Yes, yes.

[B]

I wake up like, oh my God, like, what's wrong? Because I like, I need to get my workout in to like calm my thoughts and then I can go about my day.

[A]

I feel the same way.

[B]

And then do you also feel like when you run you don't want to like have a full stomach, almost 100.

[A]

Like I think I've just gotten so used to running fasted where it's like I'd rather just like earn the, the calories after. And it's not even about the calories. Just like I'd rather like not. I don't wanna, I want to create the least amount of friction before me stepping, waking up and stepping out the door.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I think even doing coffee, like that little five minute friction, like making a quick little bite to eat. Like even if it's just oatmeal or something, I know it's quick but like I'd rather just like consume that right when I get back. And then it's kind of like the Huberman thing of like consume the caffeine 90 minutes after you wake up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And after my run, it's always like roughly two hours after I wake up something. It's a perfect time to get the caffeine. And I like the fact that I don't need a lot to, like, get my body moving in that sense, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's like. It's not that coffee's not, like, a motivator for me to go run. It's just like, no, I can earn it when I get back.

[B]

Yes. It's more rewarding to have it afterwards.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Are you always running on the Ladybird Lake Trail?

[A]

Honestly? No.

[B]

Oh, I thought you always were.

[A]

No. So I live, like. Right. I live in, like, off South Congress, people. If you. If you live in Austin, you know.

[B]

Don'T stalk Mount Troy.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you might just be able to see my Strava map, which I do. It's probably not good nonetheless. But when I run from home, I just run down South Congress, and then I come back on the weekends. I like doing the town Lake trail just because it's kind of nicer to switch it up. And it's like, you know, there's loops that I can run, but sometimes even just. It's not like it's a far drive to get a town lake bug. I like the aspect. Like, I'm already gonna be so sweaty. It's like, I'd rather just, like, start my run at home, end at home. I can get in the cold plunge and, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Start my morning. Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I typically run from home and then on, like, once a week, twice a week, I'll do speed workouts on a track. So then I do drive to a track.

[B]

Back to the food.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And ultra marathons. How. Okay. From my perception, I'm, like, picturing you running day and night, and I'm like, when is this guy eating? When are you going to the bathroom? Are you pooping your pants? Like, these are real questions that I have, legitimate questions. Yeah.

[A]

For Leadville, for 24 hours and 48 minutes that I was running, I actually did not poop.

[B]

Why?

[A]

I went. I just didn't have to.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. It's not like I was holding it in. I went right before. And then I obviously just, like, went to the bathroom, like, to pee a couple times throughout the race. Yeah.

[B]

Do you pee your pants or do you pull over?

[A]

Okay, I just pull over. I mean, you're in the. You're in. You're in the nature.

[B]

So I know that some people, when it's, like, an intense race, they'll just pee their pants.

[A]

I mean, Mario, I've seen people pee and poop their pants.

[B]

Like, that's the detail I want. Like, give it. Give us the glory.

[A]

Let me give you this detail. When I was in Sydney, Sydney marathon. I'm mile 23 of 26, and there's this lady that's in front of me. And, like, I just, like, maybe she's like, 15 yards in front of me. And, like, I just start, like, whiffing, like, a very, like, bad smell. And, like, my brother is typically filming for me, like, on a bike. And, like, I'm just, like, starting to whiff. I'm like, yo, what is that? And I just look ahead and, like, this lady just had, like, poop, like, literally down her leg, going into her sock and shoe. And she just kept moving. Like, she did not stop.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I literally was like. And I looked. I saw my brother. I told my brother, I look. I said. I pointed. I'm like, oh, my God. And, like, she's. And I had so much respect for her because, like, she's still, like, getting after it. She's moving.

[B]

That's gritty.

[A]

It's gritty as hell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like. And I honestly, I went a little faster so I can get out of, like, the proximity of that smell. But I've seen so much shit, literally and figuratively, no pun intended, on a course. And I think in ultras, it's even, like, it's not that it's worse, it's just that the grit level is higher in ultras. Right. Like, I've seen women, like, literally pee standing up, just, like, picking up their leg. Like, I think, like, there's so much more. It's just like, you're already going through so much suffering. You're in pain.

[B]

You don't care.

[A]

You just don't care.

[B]

Totally. It's just like, let's get this out the way.

[A]

Literally. It's that mentality.

[B]

Isn't there, like, a famous. My husband Greg wanted me to ask you this. There's a guy who ran the New York City Marathon who pooped his pants. And it was like, a big thing.

[A]

He ran the Boston Marathon. His name is Davis Clark. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's a. He's a cool dude out of. Out of Boston, actually, Massachusetts.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He's super cool. Like, I mean, I got a chance to meet him in Boston, actually. He's a really good dude. But he ran a sub three marathon, and, like, he pooped his pants. And at the very end, he literally goes, Boston Marathoner. Sub 3 marathoner. And I pooped myself. And, like, he showed the poop. But, like, low key Mario. It was kind of, like, disturbing. Like, it was like, a little bit of blood, too. I don't Know if that was like the chafing in addition to pooping himself. But, like, honestly, it looked unwell.

[B]

You're like, it was cool. And then we saw the blood and now we're.

[A]

And then I'm like. I'm like, we're all people in the comments are kind of like, are you okay, man? Like, slightly concerned, but yes, he got. He's like, really popular in the. In. In Boston. I think he's in finance.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But yeah, yeah, he's a good.

[B]

That's so random.

[A]

It's a good mate finance guy.

[B]

Okay. Okay. And then food on the go. I did see a TikTok of you, like, shoving foods in your mouth. Like, you were like blueberries this.

[A]

Yes, yes. So in Leadville, you know, being at altitude, one thing I found that I struggled with was like, eating on the run. So what a lot of runners will do is, like, every hour you're trying to get, like, roughly 300 to 350 calories in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And obviously mixing that in whether it's, you know, saltier foods like chips, gels, like performance gels. Yeah. Honestly, peanut butter and jelly, like, literally liquid fluids, like whatever you can consume just to make sure that, like, you're staying on top of nutrition. Ultras are one of those things where you kind of have to find what works for you because, like, your stomach's going to be, like, not loving the fact that you're moving and eating at the same time. I found that I was struggling to consume every hour on the hour while I was running at altitude. So when what you. The video that you saw was me at an aid station. So basically at 100 mile race, you'll have an area where you can pit stop every seven to 12 miles, depending on the course. So when you that the video that you saw, I was basically with my crew and they had a bunch of options for food because, like, you don't know how you're gonna feel. Right. It's like you might want something saltier because you're sweating out so much salt, or you might need something that's sweeter. So, like people like chocolates or candy, like, something that is gonna, like, hit that palate from. But in that moment, like, I was just like, I need calories. So, like, it was like potato chips, like ginger ale, just because soda is a really quick way to get sugar and calories in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then like peanut butter and jellies or like we had like some breakfast tacos, like, just like a variety of stuff. Like, honestly, something that really got me through was ramen, just because ramen. High in sodium, high in carbohydrates.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just like, something warm while you're just, like, running and in consuming, like, gels. Yeah, it's nice to have something warm. Like, even, like. Like, bone broth is, like, a nice thing to have, just because it's, like, it's denser. But. Yeah. Food during an ultra is a. It's a challenge for a lot of people. Like, I'll say this. Like, the runners that are winning, they pretty much only eat gels. No, like, literally, like, you know, like, the little gel packets.

[B]

Yeah, I know what they are. But what's in.

[A]

It's just. It's sugar.

[B]

Just straight sugar.

[A]

It's sugar. And, like, depending on which ones you get, like, there's different. There's. There's obviously some sodium in there as well. Some. You're getting some salts, but a lot of it. And electrolytes, but a lot of. It's just, like, sugar.

[B]

Does it taste good? I'm assuming. Yeah, it tastes all right.

[A]

It tastes okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, it's not like, you're not gonna be like, oh, midday snack, a gel.

[B]

Like, it's just fuel.

[A]

It's literally just fuel.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And typically, sugar is the fastest. It's, like, the fastest absorbing. So, like. Yeah, you can actually digest that. And every hour, on the hour or every 30 minutes, you consume one of those. And like. Like, that's how people get. Like, each of those packets are probably 100 calories.

[B]

Okay, got it. So you need to have three in an hour.

[A]

Yeah, like, two to three of them in an hour.

[B]

Okay, got it.

[A]

If that's all you consume, who is.

[B]

Like, the top ultra marathon runner?

[A]

So Courtney Dewalter is one of the top ultramarines.

[B]

Is she the Colorado Blonde girl?

[A]

Colorado Blonde girl. That were super long basketball shorts. Yes. She's a. She's also, like, the sweetest. Like, I got a chance to meet her at Running man, and she's so kind.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Like, just, like, sweeter. She actually lives in Leadville, so she trains in that town, which.

[B]

Yeah, the altitude probably helps, right?

[A]

Exactly. It's an endurance. Like, it's an endurance runner's dream to basically be able to live and train out of there. She's one of the. Probably the top female and male. Honest. Like, she smashes a lot of the records.

[B]

Wow. Go, go.

[A]

David Ro, who ended up winning in Leadville at 15 hours, like, he's also now kind of coming into the scene as, like, a bigger name. And there's there's, honestly, like, there's, there's, there's a few others that are like, like Sally McCray is also a pretty popular ultra marathoner. The thing is, Mari, honestly, most people don't really know the ones that are winning.

[B]

I, that doesn't surprise. I know. And it's funny that I did because Greg and I went through a phase of watching ultra marathon content, honestly, and that's how I know who that is. But like, yeah, there isn't much like glory in it or like public celebration in it. It's like very, very minimal. Like very.

[A]

Even the ones I named, like, I only know them because like they also understand that content and media is important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And their storytelling around these, these challenges that they're doing because ultimately like, even marathoners aren't like, like, if you think about a marathon, like marathoners aren't making a lot of money off of winning.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. Like they have to win to then earn a sponsorship. And even then if they don't value media and content, like it's hard for them to actually build a business around their personal brand. Like they're just trying to win these crazy races to then earn Nike or Adidas as a sponsor. But like, ultimately there's not a lot of money in road running.

[B]

I was going to ask you about this and for anyone who doesn't know, Matt has a very large platform, big content creator. Like, I feel like content is like a huge part of what you do.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Is that how, and I'm assuming you this is what you do full time. Is that how you support your running passion is through the content? Okay. Okay.

[A]

Like I always say this like I'm like I feel like I'm a media company and then a runner, an athlete. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because like if I don't focus on content then like I'm not going to be able to, to do this as like a full time job. People think like running's my job. I'm like, I'm not winning races. Like, I go out here just like, because I'm like, it's like it's a, it's become an obsession and like a hobby. But like, like no brand is paying me to win. They're paying me for some form of influence to the community of like, hey, if Matt wears a certain shoe or if he talks about a certain shoe, like that is value add for that brand. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

But for me it's like I'm not making money because I win races, because I haven't never won a Race. Right. So I think it's. It's why I get a little pushback from like, the elite runners. Because there's a lot of elite runners that are some of the fastest athletes in the world that you and I don't know.

[B]

Because they don't know how to build a personal brand.

[A]

Well, that's just. It's not what they value. Right. Because, like, they're training 24 7.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they don't. It's not that they don't see the value. They might not think that they're interesting. They might not think that people will relate to it. Like, and some athletes, elite athletes have started to do it because they understand or their team does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because realistically you. With. With an elite athlete, you. They probably need a team.

[B]

Because I was going to say someone needs to follow them around.

[A]

Right. Because, like, it's something that they. They're not going to prioritize filming themselves while they're running.

[B]

Right. It's distracting, gets in the way.

[A]

It impacts performance.

[B]

Yeah. And I also. What I love about your content, and I think it's really interesting, is you would assume that your content has a lot to do with, like, the physicality of being a runner and like the athletic. Athleticism, which definitely does. But I also feel like you're so big on mindset and I would definitely want to talk about mindset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What are some things you do every single day to hone in on that discipline and keep yourself going?

[A]

I think the first couple things, like, in the morning, like, I started doing the WIM HOF method about two years ago after I read his book. And that's been like a practice now, like, even before I touch my phone or like before I brush my teeth, like, I literally do three rounds of the WIM hof. And that I think is just like, it grounds me in the sense that, like, I think it's so easy in our world now where it's like everyone's wants to get stimulated. There's devices, there's tv. There's so much things that are distracting most humans. And I think when you start just like focusing on your breath and your own inner voice and following like a daily discipline, something that you can continue to do no matter what the environment is. That has been something that has been profound in my morning routine. I think as I've gotten further with even my own mindset, I think the more now as I go on pause and I talk about, like, because people always ask me, like, you've. I feel like. And what people think about me is, like, how do you. Like, you seem like you're so positive or, like, so, like, optimistic. And I think for me, a lot of it is grounded in gratitude. And knowing that, like, the fact I get to do this is, like, a blessing. Right. And I. I honestly, like, try not to, like, forget about that. Like, if you look at a marathon, there's so many people, especially towards the middle in the back half, that, like, whether they're in wheelchairs or whether they're blind or, like, whether they lost a limb. Like, the fact that we have bodies that are capable of even just walking and moving is such a blessing. And then for me, like, I never feel like I work. Like, my work has become so much of a blessing where it's like, I get to kind of just live and, like, document the things I'm doing, and then that becomes the quote, unquote work. But I think not stressing too much about getting validated from other people has also helped my mental sharpening.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I think at times when people, especially getting to content, like, it's almost like you're putting yourself out there, and if you do it for the wrong reasons, you seek validation from the wrong places. And for me, like, when I go to a race, when I. When I do a challenge, it's not necessary to prove people like, oh, Matt can do these things, or Matt could run a sub 3. Like, I'm just genuinely curious if I can do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if I can't, Mario, like, I'm not beating myself up. Like, you're a failure. How could you, like, oh, my God, like, your training program was effed up or you didn't follow this. It's like, no. It's like, sometimes it's your day or sometimes it's not. And I think the fact that we can continue to take that lesson even if it's a failure or not, and then go try it again. Like, you have nothing to lose. Like, I get so, like, caught. Like, I tell people, I'm like, don't get so caught up in, like, running such a fast time that you forget the fact that, like, you're doing a marathon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So many people get caught up in it. I'm like, dude, you did a freaking marathon. Like, who cares if you were off your personal best time by three minutes?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, don't be so butthurt about it. Like, I think showing up lightly and not putting so much pressure on yourself, like, where, like, that's not pressure, right? Like, running a fast marathon time, it's like, I Think sometimes people get too caught up in that.

[B]

Such a great lesson. And I think that could apply to so many different things. What about running has changed the way you live your life in general?

[A]

H. I think. Well, one, it definitely like, it. It gives me something that continues to help me learn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I was such a poor student, I found that, like, it was just the fact that I was not interested or I wasn't stimulated in the things I was learning. Now, like, I feel like, like, one of my biggest missions is, like, just to always be a student. And it's why, like, when I'm in rooms with people or I have conversations with people that, like. And it doesn't even have to be someone that's more successful or less successful. It's just like, we can learn from anything, from anyone as humans. And I think the thing about running is that every time I do it, like, I'm able to take something out of it. And even if it's like a glimpse of, like. Oh, like the fact that this morning I felt a little bit stronger because it's starting to get cooler in Austin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not as hot and humid.

[B]

Today was nice.

[A]

Today was beautiful. In the morning, even something as small as that, it's like, oh, like, running is like a constant learning opportunity because no matter what race you do, no matter what challenge it is, even if it's not a race, like, there's something you can get out of a run because it's going to hit you in a different way no matter how many miles that you've done. So I think that has then translated into, you know, the business or content and other things where I'm like, oh, like, just because you've had some small successes or you've put some wins on the board, like, like, not to get comfortable.

[B]

Yeah. No, I love that. And I would imagine when you're running as much as you do, do you kind of get into a headspace, like a meditative place where you're kind of running through your thoughts or what you're going to do for the day or kind of sorting things through in your mind?

[A]

100%. I rarely ever bring headphones and listen to music.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Yeah. So it's like, it isn't. It's exactly that. Where it's like, it's my first meeting with myself. Right. Like, I think, like, I mean, I pretty much live off the Google Calendar, but, like, that meeting, to me is the most important. And it's, to your point, an opportunity for me to think about, like, what Is, like, what's a focus for the week? Or, like, what do I have to tackle? Like, what's important, like, what's happening in this week that I might need to like, put some more creative energy into. And also, even just on the content creative side, it's like, it is an opportunity for just, like, to flush through ideas. And then you go on a run with someone, it's like you have that opportunity where you're like, you can mingle with them and you can chat with them. Most people that I meet now, it's like, if someone wants to meet with me, I always say, you either come run or you come sauna. Those are where I have meetings with people. And it's somewhat of a challenge for whether someone has their fitness to do that or not. But it's cool because it creates no friction for me. I'm already going to be doing this. It would help me and serve me better if you can actually fit it into this thing. And obviously I still have meetings where I'm not doing that with some people, but that's always a fun word when, like, people know, like, if. Oh, like, if I can run, then I probably can run with Matt. Like, you know, at some point, like, it might not happen, like, every day, but, like, there's an opportunity for it in the future.

[B]

Totally. My husband does the same thing. He's very routine. He's the CEO of Bloom, so he's super busy and he's like, training for two hours. He's a more of a bodybuilder. He doesn't really run as much, but he is actually a pretty good runner. He's like 220 pounds.

[A]

I think I've seen him before. Yeah, he's. He's. He's jacked.

[B]

Large man. Large man. Like, sometimes he comes back when he tr. Tries running and he's like, I don't think I'm built for this.

[A]

It's like, probably not, but it's awesome that he's doing it.

[B]

He's little. His not little arms. His big arms are like, you know, dinosaur vibes. But he likes for people to join him for a workout or sauna with him or just, like, be a part of his routine that exists already. Because when you're busy and your performance focus, like, you kind of need people to do that for you.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, it creates the least amount of friction.

[B]

Yes, totally. So advice for people who, I mean, kind of like me, who are like, I could never run. I can't even do a mile. How do I Get started. Like, what would be your piece of advice?

[A]

The first advice I would say is never say you can't do anything. I think that would, like, truly is, like, the start. Right. It's like, if you keep telling yourself that, then you're right. It's true. It's the reality of what you're telling yourself, and it will be the reality of, like, of your ability to do that or not. So I think it starts with the mindset around, like, oh, just being curious enough to try.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. And I think then the next step is like, okay, someone's actually like, all right, man, like, I'm willing to go do it. Then it's a matter of, like, not biting off more than you can chew. So many people get excited and they're like, oh, my God, I want to go do this thing now. I want to go do this half marathon. And they probably train too aggressively to start without allowing their body to adapt to the stimulus of running. So I think a good thing to do is, like, maybe ask yourself, like, what can I actually, like, stay disciplined and consistent to. Let me just try to run twice a week along with the other types of forms of fitness that someone is doing. But, like, if you run twice a week, maybe three times a week, like, not going crazy with how much you're going to run, but maybe just setting a goal of, like, can I just try to do, like, two to three miles? And maybe that's extreme for some. And then it's just saying, can I just do one mile? Like, for some people, you might just have to walk, jog, like, one mile. And then maybe you walk for a minute. You jog for a minute.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, that could be a great starting point. And now, like, from there, you can progress it as much as you need to based on how difficult that one mile is or that two to three miles.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But I would say start small, reassure yourself and change the way that you speak to yourself. Because I think that's really important, not even in just running, but in life. Right. I think it's like, it's. It's super critical, and it bleeds into so much else of who we are. Of, like, the more you remove can't or never in your vocabulary, the quicker you realize that, like, these things are possible.

[B]

Yeah. Speak it into existence.

[A]

100.

[B]

I like the baby step method. I think it's much more approachable for people. I say that with weightlifting, too. Just, like, show up a couple times a week and add to it from there. I want to talk about your Content, because as you said, you kind of are like a media company also. What was your goal when you first started making content? Was it just like, I want to document the running. I want to give, like, mentality advice? Like, what was the goal?

[A]

The initial goal, Mari, was. So I was still working corporate at the time. I had this sales job and I was reading a bunch of Gary Vee. Oh, yeah, I read the book Crushing It. So the initial goal, Mario, was just like, I like the thought process of, oh, the attention is on these platforms and on the devices and that you could potentially get paid for doing something you enjoy. Like, that was the initial. Just like, very broad thought of, like, oh, wait, like, I love football. Like, I love training. Like, if I could make money doing that and making some videos online, like, shit, that would be the dream for me. Right. And that's kind of how it started is like, I then built, like, an online training business, and I started training local football players in the area that me and Piana grew up. And then from there I was like, okay, like, oh, like, let me. Now I just started getting more comfortable with the idea of what it means to be a creator, what it means to produce content, not just to consume it. As that kind of went further on, I then understood, like, okay, I understand media at some capacity. At that point, Mario, I had, like, maybe 2,000 followers. So I didn't really understand it. I was just doing it, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like someone that doesn't know how to go to the gym, like, they don't know what they're doing in the gym, but they, for whatever reason, keep showing up.

[B]

Yeah. I think that's the most important part.

[A]

100.

[B]

Genuinely, even if you're making crap content.

[A]

Just keep going because your over time will learn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you'll start to see different trends or different ways for you to communicate what you want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for me, that was the initial goal. And then when the pandemic hit, I got laid off as a trainer. So then I'm like, you know, originally my goal is I wanted to have a gym. Like most trainers, they're like, I want to open up a gym and have a facility. But then I quickly realized I'm like, there's probably not. That's probably not the best business model, if you want to think about, like, overhead or minimizing risk. And I'm like, oh, I can create an online business where, like, I could just have content be the distribution and have that be what generates income. And I'm like, okay. So then I Went into, let me start doing different challenges and document that. And that's how I got into the running. So, like, now, even with my content now, I think think my goal is to share case and document my lifestyle and have that be what then generates revenue. And for me, that's what I've done the past couple years. Now, granted, like, there's still more things I want to accomplish. And like, even looking at what you've done with Boom, like, there's like, obviously ambition. I would love to have a product in the future, but in the current state, it's not my main priority. Yeah. Like, I want to grow my distribution and build trust for my audience and keep building it in that fashion and down the line. Like, I think the beautiful thing with content and even with your question, like, for a lot of people, you're not going to know exactly what it is in the beginning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you have to have enough confidence in yourself to just get the ball rolling because the opportunities and doors are going to start to open that you never could have thought. Like, I never thought Austin was going to be a door, you know, but me just kind of working through that muscle the first couple years of, like, just continuing to show up then kind of created this door to open. And I think for a lot of people, they think that they need to have A through Z planned out where if you actually realize, even the most successful people in the world don't even have A through F. Like, so. And everyone's trying to figure it out.

[B]

So I think, yeah, 100%.

[A]

Starting is the hardest thing, and it's what most people need to do.

[B]

Yeah. It's the moment where people get intimidated. I was at Harvard this past weekend, and these young women who are interested in business, a lot of them were asking me, how do I stop posting content? Like, how do I know if people will like it? How do I know if this. And I'm like, you got to stop asking permission. Like, you know what value you have to add. You don't have to be super qualified. Just start talking about it like, you know what you're good at. You know what you have expertise in. The only reason I have a business is because I just started talking on a camera, literally, and sharing like, oh, I'm really struggling with this. Oh, I figured out this. This is the recipe for this. Like, my content was so crazy. Like, I look back and I'm like, what? I was going through it on camera, but, like, that's what worked. Like, people were listening and could relate to me. And then I made a PDF guide for $5, and that escalated from there. Like, you really never know. And I think, as you said, I think people get intimidated by successful people and thinking they have it all figured out. Most people don't even know what they're doing. They're just kind of like, throwing it at the wall and being like, I hope this works. You know what I mean? 100 and it' about the people who are willing to, like, push through the embarrassing hard pot.

[A]

1,000.

[B]

You know, so now with your content, I have, like, detail questions, like, because guys, go look at Matt Choi's content. He's, like, running. There's, like, a lot happening. You're doing burpees on a track. Like, there's so much going on. Like, who is filming? It's your brother, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of the running, like, it running content itself. Like. Like, I've been super fortunate to have my brother and, you know, in Austin. And actually he's recently gonna move. So, like, now I need to find someone who's gonna kind of replace that.

[B]

Where's he going?

[A]

He's going back to Virginia, actually, because he's got a new job in Virginia and him and his girlfriend are gonna move there. So it's like a really good opportunity for him. It's kind of like a. For me, it's like a little bit of a hip too. But, like, I also knew that it wasn't gonna be a forever thing for us to kind of keep doing that.

[B]

So you gotta find someone fit to keep up with you and film and with a steady hand.

[A]

Correct. So the thing is, like, we have an electric bike, and that's actually how my brother's able to record a lot of it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because obviously, when you're running, like, to your point, if you. If someone else is running, like, the camera is super shaky, if someone's on an E bike, there's a little bit more stabilization, so the shot is more sharper, it's cleaner. So to your point, yes. Like, I'm going to have to find now kind of like that replacement. And my brother will still come on, like, bigger trips if we plan it accordingly where, like, he has enough time in advance to kind of schedule it out. But it's obviously been. He's been a serious weapon for me in the media side of just having someone that's, like, available to do that. But, yes, it's typically on a bike as I'm running around, that's how I'm able to capture the shot for the.

[B]

Media for an Ultra marathon, where you're like in the mountains for hours. Are you just doing it yourself at that point?

[A]

Yeah, it's just a little bit more challenging. I mean, I'll definitely just go POV and just kind of film it myself, whether it's for YouTube or Instagram. And there's certain parts of the mountain though that like my media team came up and they also climbed, which, oh my God, like, praise all of them because like, obviously that's a physical challenge and they're bringing all their camera equipment and I mean, Mario, when you're climbing this mountain in Hope, it's called Hope Pass and it's about. It sits at like 12,500ft of elevation. So you're at the summit of this thing and like, you have guys that are like bringing their backpacks full of gear and like cameras and like, they're struggling to get up to the top.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And obviously we got the shot that we needed, but like, yeah, I gave them a big pat on the back. Cause I'm like, I know that it's, it's, it's a suffer fest.

[B]

It's like filming a movie legitimately and.

[A]

Like, you have to earn it. Right. Because like, to get that shot to be up there, like, you can't just like send a drone up. Like it had like there, there couldn't be a drone. But like, you need to have other shots.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the best way to get up there is by foot because there's. You can't bring a bike up there. It's. It's too steep.

[B]

How big is your team?

[A]

The team now on the media side on YouTube, we have two people on the YouTube team when it comes to shorts. It's just me and one other editor. And I still honestly push out a lot of the content on myself. I really believe in just staying as lean as possible. Right. Like, there's obviously certain things, like I, I knew early on that like YouTube production wasn't going to be my thing. So like, that was one of the most important finds for me was like having someone that can handle that workload because, like, I'm okay making a quick reel. Like, you know, Mario, I could take like a quick 30 second cap cut. Yeah, really quick. But like, to work through a whole YouTube edit is like, it's a lot. It's, it's a commitment that it's a lot.

[B]

I did it for a while and I actually love editing.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

Yes. But the YouTube videos, I would, let's say I filmed for a day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It would take an additional two to edit it.

[A]

100. Yeah, it's a big, it's a, it's a bigger beast to tackle. But yeah, and then, and then I have like, I have a ghostwriter that helps me with like the written word and stuff and just like some like, legal account members and things like that. But media wise, I'd say it's about like a three, three person team.

[B]

I just thought of something I really want to ask you.

[A]

Please.

[B]

It's a little bit controversial, guys. Actually, it's not controversial. Have you seen this, like, exposure on TikTok of people fake running?

[A]

What do you mean, fake running?

[B]

Okay, so it's good. Not just girls. I'm sure it's like all types of people, but like, they film themselves and they're like, mile one and then they're like mile two and they get to mile 10 and they're like, whoo, that was hard. And then they go inside and everyone's like calling people out for fake running.

[A]

I've definitely, I've heard and seen some of this.

[B]

Is that real? Like, are they actually fake running?

[A]

You know, I don't, I can't. I'm not going to speak on it because I don't actually know Mario, but like, I can imagine because, like, low key, like some of the videos that popped off for me to start was that it was that concept of like, like mile one and then the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, obviously if you go on my Strava and like, that's like truly the best way to kind of like cross, like examine, I guess, if like someone is BSing or not. Yeah, but like, it would be so easy to do that technically.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like mile one all the way to mile 20. And then you only ran like for 10 minutes.

[B]

I would feel so shitty doing that.

[A]

I agree. I mean, it's like, I think it's because we're like disciplined and committed people. But, like, some people probably don't care.

[B]

They just want views.

[A]

Yeah. If they're like, yo, if this is going to get me virality or if this is going to get me followers and people. I mean, nowadays with social, that's the one thing that kind of does suck, is that people will do anything for virality.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

And like, that's, I guess like a gift and a curse when it comes to the landscape of how developed social is now. But yeah, what can you do?

[B]

I know. I just saw that the other day and I was like, wait, that, that's crazy.

[A]

Yeah, I can see that happening though, to Be honest.

[B]

It's a huge controversy on TikTok in the. In the running community that I'm in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, wait. I do just want to touch on before we. I know. I have so many questions for you, but Austin run clubs have become this, like, sensation, and I kind of, like, I see them around, like, I knew it was a big deal, honestly, when I moved. I moved to Austin in March, so I haven't been here that long. And when I first got here, I was like, damn, everyone is really in shape. Like, really in shape, especially on the trail. Like, oh, my God. So these run clubs, though, have become, like, dating clubs. Like, what's the vibe with their Austin run clubs?

[A]

Well, there's a variety of. A lot of them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There's obviously the massive one, Raw Dog, which is kind of like a dating club, kind of like, more for social.

[B]

Raw. Raw Dog. Stop. Okay?

[A]

I know the guys, the guy. They're good lads. They're good kids. I mean, they're super young. I mean, they've, like. I think they've. They've captivated an audience, and I think it's great. I think, to answer your question, I mean, there's so many run clubs. There's a variety of them. It's kind of, like different gyms. Right. Like, every gym has its own kind of style, right? So there's certain run clubs that are maybe more for the social aspect and truly just to meet people. Then there's other clubs that are, like, more serious about, like, yeah, like, we're gonna really. We're gonna do some proper workouts. Like, this is really more for the love of running. And then there's some that are kind of in between that, like, they run hard and they party hard. Right? So I think now. And honestly, Austin has. I think there's like, 70 to 80 different clubs. All of them will be different. They're not all dating clubs, but Raw Dog because of, like, the.

[B]

The name.

[A]

The name and the exposure that it got, because some of the guys are creators. I think it's created this allure. And I. I know Chris Williamson had that clip that kind of went crazy where everyone's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where he said it's like, oh, run clubs are just a mass for dating clubs. Like, I mean, there's truth, and there's truth in that, and there's also not some truth in that, in the sense that, like, there's a lot of clubs that are truly just for the community. Right. That it's a way for. To meet people. Yes. But it's also A way to get better at running. Right. Because a lot of run clubs, too, is, like, it's a way to, if you're a beginner runner, to go maybe meet people that are more experienced, that if you do have these questions where, like, man, I'm keep getting hurt, like, I don't know what's wrong with my foot, or, like, I don't know how to, like, progress my long runs or whatever questions, like, runners have. It is a good way to go meet someone who's more experienced and learn from them. So. But the thing is, Mari, like, those clubs aren't as, like, sexy, right? Like, people want to go to the club where they're going to see, like, they're going to. They might meet their future husband or wife, or, like, they might go meet someone that they can, like, become a good friend with. So, yeah, I think asking yourself, what are you looking for out of a run club is probably going to be the important factor before you decide what run club you want to go be a part of. And in a city like Austin where there's so many options, you know, if you go to a different city, Mario, like, you might only have, like, five options.

[B]

Yeah. Austin's kind of wild.

[A]

Austin's wild in the sense that, like, everyone's so focused on fitness and wellness, and obviously running is so available here because the weather.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're almost. We're in October, and it's. It's 85, 90 degrees outside. Like, you go to. I'm going to Chicago this weekend for the marathon. Like, oh, you are.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Freezing there.

[B]

So excited.

[A]

It'll be fun. I'm just spectating, so I'm not gonna actually run. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna be chilling on this one.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you're recovering.

[A]

I'm recovering. And also, I don't have a bid for this one, but I also, like, you know, I've now done so many of the majors, but, you know, I'll say this. Like, the majors kind of, for me are like. It's kind of like the super bowl, right? Like, for runners like Chicago, Boston, New York. Like, these are like. And like, the ones overseas, internationally, they're major events. And it's good for me from a media standpoint to go out and just get content.

[B]

Right. So it's not a good point.

[A]

It's not always about me running it. It's like, the fact that I can go to a race and even, like, switch up the storytelling and change up the dynamic of, like, oh, I I can go get content and I don't have to physically put myself to a marathon is a major win.

[B]

That's smart. That's really smart. And you can kind of really focus on one thing.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Okay, final question.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

This is what I ask every single guest. What does wellness mean to you?

[A]

Wellness to me means creating a sustainable lifestyle that could be repeated over time. And I think it's enjoying the process of it, Right? I think for me, so much of my journey has been about, like, not any one race or any end result, but like, the process of it and enjoying that. Because I think if you don't enjoy that, like, wellness will be really hard to attain. It's something that should be sustainable and something that can be repeatable. Because truly, like, my goal is, like, I want to live as long as I can and to be able to function and move my body as long as possible. So for me, a lot of wellness. I think, I think if I put in one word, is longevity such a great answer.

[B]

Love it. I agree 100%. Matt, where can everyone find you online?

[A]

You guys can find me on Tick Tock and Instagram. Matt Choi, underscore6. And if you guys want to follow the YouTube, just. Matt Choi.

[B]

I want to follow the YouTube.

[A]

Follow YouTube. You gotta watch. I want to get your feedback on the Leadville video that we produce.

[B]

I didn't know about the YouTube, so I gotta go find it.

[A]

Yeah, check it out. Actually, I want to get. I want to get you and your husband, your husband's take on it.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah. We love Ultra Marathon. Thank you so much.

[A]

This was a pleasure. Thank you so much.

[B]

Thanks for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness podcast to support this show. Please rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my [e-mail] it will be linked in the show notes. This is a wellness loud production produced by Drake Peter Peterson, Fiona Attucks and Kelly Kyle. This show is edited by Mike Fry and our video is recorded by Luis Vargas. You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Mari Fitness. Love you POW girls and POW boys. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, talk to your doctor or health team.

[A]

It.