Charlie Sykes is a veteran journalist, of a conservative bent. He is a writer and broadcaster. Find Charlie at To the Contrary, his Substack. On Q&A, he and I have had a meaty, wide-ranging chat.

He is a Wisconsinite, whose father was a newspaperman. “I always thought of the daily newspaper as a daily miracle,” says Charlie. I thought the same thing, by the way.

When Charlie was in eighth grade, his dad was the Wisconsin campaign manager for Eugene McCarthy’s presidential campaign. Charlie traveled around the state that year.

He was immersed in politics—the affairs of the nation and world—at an early age.

Incidentally, Charlie’s father would move rightward, and so would Charlie himself.

Charlie always had a zest for politics. So did I. Has this zest worn off, for both of us? Do we derive the same pleasure from politics—the debates, the rough-and-tumble, the game—that we once did? No.

But it is our duty to hang in there, says Charlie: to make the points that need making, and to take the stands that need taking.

In this Q&A, we spend a little time on the Iran war. I want to know: Was it worth it? And is “was” the right tense? I hope it was worth it; I’m not sure it was.

We then talk about the world we inhabited for so long: conservative journalism, right-of-center politics. Dramatic changes have taken place in that general world. The conservatism of the past has been replaced by the right-wing populism of today.

I confess to Charlie that the shock has not quite worn off for me—though I have had at least ten years to adjust, which is more than enough.

On this as on all other subjects, Charlie has interesting things to say—frank and thoughtful at the same time.

Some people claim that you can draw a straight line from our kind of conservatism—what Charlie Sykes and I have long argued from and advocated—to today. He and I both say: nuts.

We get into the touchy subject of racism a little. And also the subject of tribalism. The “call of the tribe,” as Mario Vargas Llosa says. Tribalism seems to be natural in man—and bless all those who overcome it.

I know what it is to hate one’s political enemies. I stuck with Reagan through everything—Iran-contra, Bitburg … I loved him, yes, but, even more, I hated his enemies.

You can’t bear for the “other side” to win, even for a second.

As I say on this program, I half-believed the conspiracy theories about Bill Clinton: the Mena airport, Vince Foster, Webb Hubbell … I half-believed the “birther” theory about Barack Obama.

What are the conspiracy theories about Donald Trump? I’m not sure there are any. Everything is out in the open—often trumpeted and bragged about!

In our discussion, Charlie Sykes and I talk about Rush Limbaugh: his influence, his legacy. Also, the media today. What does “the media” mean, by the way? Does the term make sense any longer? Does anyone sit down at 6:30 for the evening news—with Rather, Brokaw, or Jennings?

Anyway, you will want to hear Charlie, on our various topics. Before we close, we talk about refuges from politics. Charlie lives in the Wisconsin woods and “touches grass” every day. In New York, I may not touch grass much, but they do have mats at the golf range.

Thanks for listening.

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Political Worlds, Old and New