
Hosted by Mormon Discussion Inc · EN

Ever wonder what happens when you take all the earliest accounts of the Angel Moroni appearing to Joseph Smith and compare them? The answers can be problematic but always fascinating. RFM is joined by an all-star panel of Bill Reel, Randy Bell and everyone’s favorite Rando, Kolby Reddish, to hash through the sources. The result is a story that looks less like the recounting of an incident that actually happened to Joseph Smith, and more like a work in progress. This is one show you won’t want to miss!

Tonight on Mormonism Live we tackle one of the most controversial and uncomfortable documents in LDS history: Joseph Smith’s 1832 First Vision account. Not the polished 1838 version members know from the Pearl of Great Price. Not the story that has been repeated in manuals and General Conference over a hundred years. We’re going back to Joseph’s own handwritten account—the one hidden away in a vault, physically cut from his letterbook with a penknife, and unavailable to the public for over a century. We examine the major differences that made this account so troubling. In 1832 Joseph says he was in his 16th year rather than 14. He says he sought forgiveness of sins instead of asking which church was true. He already believed all denominations had apostatized, while the later account says “it had never entered into my heart” that they were all wrong. And perhaps most significant of all, the 1832 account centers on one divine being—Jesus Christ—with no mention of God the Father appearing. Then we follow the strange trail surrounding the account itself. Who removed the pages? Why were they cut out? Why was Levi Edgar Young told not to copy or discuss what he called a “strange account”? Why was it stored in a private vault? And why do the Church’s explanations seem to require increasingly complex assumptions to reconcile what appears, on the surface, to be a very different story? We’ll examine the historical evidence, the apologetic arguments, Joseph Fielding Smith’s role, and ask a simple question: Which explanation requires the fewest assumptions and best fits the evidence? Was this merely another version of the same event? Or did the earliest First Vision account create discomfort because it told a substantially different story? Join Bill Reel and Radio Free Mormon as we take a deep dive into one of Mormonism’s most fascinating historical problems. Donate to Mormonism Live: https://donorbox.org/mormonism-live If anyone needs support dealing with spiritual trauma, 1-on-1 coaching and support groups are available at https://awakenandthrive.org/ MormonismLive #JosephSmith #FirstVision #LDSHistory #MormonHistory #Mormonism #ExMormon #1832FirstVision #RadioFreeMormon #billreel RESOURCES:https://archive.org/details/creationofbookof0000pete/page/n13/mode/2up http://www.mormonthink.com/files/eight-contemporary-accounts-1st-vision-improvement-era-1974.pdfhttps://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Joseph_F._Smith%27s_Attempt_at_Suppressing_the_1832_Account_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_First_Visionhttps://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/first-vision-accounts-faq/04-was-the-1832-account?lang=eng https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V47N02_210.pdf https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/the-significance-of-joseph-smiths https://youtu.be/D6Deoh20oAk https://youtu.be/jSlaOwcuwqghttps://youtu.be/Dw-22jafYUchttps://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V01N03_31s.pdfhttps://exploringmormonism.com/our-own-peek-into-the-first-presidency-vault/

Bill Reel and RFM are joined this week by Meggan Hayes, host of the “Generally Unquotable” podcast, which features a news report on things Mormon every weekday morning! How does Meggan do it? Where does she get her stories? What are the biggest stories she has covered? These are just some of the things we’ll be finding out in this fascinating episode of Mormonism Live!

I had a faith crisis in my mid-twenties. A big faith crisis. It involved a salamander and it involved a letter. It made me question everything I thought I knew about Joseph Smith, the book he produced, and the religion he founded. The LDS religion. MY religion! And in that time of despair, I clung to the most significant single evidence that the Book of Mormon is ancient, and therefore authentic, and therefore true. I clung to the presence of “chiasmus” in the Book of Mormon; that incredible ancient Hebrew literary form that shows up in such abundance in the Nephite record. But had I been told everything there was to tell about chiasmus? Or had information been withheld from me to make “chiasmus” look like a much more impressive evidence for the Book of Mormon? Was it a solid evidence, or was it fool’s gold? And if I had known it was fool’s gold in my twenties, would I have clung to it as such strong evidence for the Book of Mormon? And if I had not clung to “chiasmus,” as proof of the Restoration, might I have left the church in my mid-twenties and lived a very different life; a life lived on my own terms as opposed to the terms dictated to me by Mormonism? These are the thoughts that I try to work through in this podcast. I hope you will join me on this journey.

Tonight on Mormonism Live, we explore one of the most uncomfortable and fascinating questions in early Mormon history: Was Moroni originally understood through the same treasure-digging framework Joseph Smith had already been practicing for years? Long before the Book of Mormon was published, Joseph Smith and those around him were involved in treasure seeking using seer stones, ritual practices, magic circles, guardian spirits, and buried treasures hidden in hills. In the earliest recollections of Moroni and the gold plates, the similarities become difficult to ignore. In this episode we examine: Moroni as a possible “treasure guardian” Joseph Smith’s use of the rock in the hat before the Book of Mormon Guardian spirit folklore in early America Magic circles, rituals, and treasure enchantments Animal sacrifice allegations in treasure digging “Slippery treasure” stories and buried ancient records How apologetics attempt to separate treasure digging from Mormon origins Why the historical continuity matters The deeper one goes into the earliest sources, the less the story initially resembles polished religion and the more it resembles the folk magic treasure-seeking culture of early 1800s America. We follow the historical record wherever it leads. RESOURCES FOR TONIGHT EPISODE:https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2026/05/Morni-Treasure-Guardian.pdf Donate to Mormonism Live: https://donorbox.org/mormonism-live Get Bill Reel’s book “A Logical Deconstruction of Mormonism”: https://www.amazon.com/Logical-Deconstruction-Mormonism-One-Book/dp/B0GQQ4CJ2S If anyone needs support dealing with spiritual trauma, 1-on-1 coaching and support groups are available at https://awakenandthrive.org/ MormonismLive #JosephSmith #MormonHistory #BookOfMormon #TreasureDigging #Moroni #LDS #ExMormon #Mormonism #SeerStone

What if the harm didn’t start with a crisis… but with what you were taught as a child? In this episode of Mormonism Live, we sit down with researcher and clinician Samuel Clemens, PhD, LCSW, to unpack his groundbreaking study on religious trauma among former Latter-day Saints—particularly those who identify as sexual minorities. This isn’t a conversation about people being “offended” or simply losing belief. It’s about something deeper. Clemens’ research reveals that for many, the damage isn’t tied to a single moment—but to years of subtle conditioning. Messages about worthiness, identity, obedience, and belonging begin early… and often shape how individuals see themselves long before they have the language to understand who they are. We explore:How religious trauma develops over time—not in one event, but through repetitionWhy identity and morality being fused together creates lasting psychological conflictThe “double bind” many experience: be authentic and risk losing everything, or conform and lose yourselfThe central role of family, belonging, and conditional acceptanceWhy leaving can feel both freeing and devastating at the same timeThis is an honest, nuanced conversation about the real human impact of high-demand religious systems—and what healing can actually look like on the other side. If you’ve ever wrestled with these questions, or you’re trying to understand someone who has, this episode offers insight that’s hard to ignore. Support Mormonism Live:https://donorbox.org/mormonism-live If you or someone you know is navigating religious or spiritual trauma, support and coaching resources are available at: https://awakenandthrive.org/ #MormonismLive #ReligiousTrauma #FaithTransition #ExMormon #MentalHealth #lds To reach Sam – sclemens161@gmail.com

RFM is joined by Kolby Reddish to finish off our analysis of the historic trouncing Bill Reel recently gave to Mormon apologist Robert Gurr! This is one for the record books! My favorite part is Mr. Gurr’s argument for why it is horses went extinct in the Americas. Hint: It has nothing to do with the ice age, and everything to do with hungry Nephites! Hungry, Hungry Nephites!

Who won the debate? Bill Reel or Robert Gurr? Bill Reel and RFM dissect Bill’s recent debate about Mormonism with Robert Gurr. This one is going to be a lot of fun! Don’t miss it!

RFM is joined by esteemed co-counsel Kolby Reddish to dissect Jacob Hansen’s recent debate with Allie Beth Stuckey of The Blaze. Strangely, Jacob seems to want to talk about anything other than Mormonism. His efforts to make Mormonism sound like Protestantism grow increasingly bizarre. But Allie is not going to let him get away with his typical Jacob Hansen obfuscation, and neither are we! We are left with the question of why is it that Jacob Hansen wants to defend Mormonism while being completely unwilling to talk about Mormonism itself. You won’t want to miss this one!

An attorney looks at the complaint! What is up with the Mormon Church? Why are they suing John Dehlin? Radio Free Mormon uses his 36-year career as an attorney to review and dissect the Church’s complaint, and discovers a number of fascinating elements to what the Mormon Church may really be up to! If you want to know what’s going on with this lawsuit, there is no better place to turn than Radio Free Mormon!