← Raising Good Humans
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
- [00:11]
B
Welcome to Raising Good humans podcast. I'm Dr. Aliza Pressman and I'm so excited that we have Laura Modi here who is the founder and CEO of Bobi. I love this brand. I wish this brand had been around, truly when I had babies. It's the first mom, founded and led infant female feeding company and the third largest fully integrated infant formula manufacturer in the U.S. and Modi, who's the mother of four, was on a mission and is on a mission to fundamentally reform the infant formula industry, setting higher nutritional standards, increasing transparency and driving accountability in a historically opaque and under regulated space. But I also really love that and we're going to talk about this. Bobbi. In an era of like so much judgment on feeding and so much fear around feeding, Bobbi is so supportive of women. If you're breastfeeding exclusively, but you just need something in case of an emergency. We all know that things happen and you want something that you think is high quality that's there for your child, particularly if you're exclusively breastfeeding. But then also for all the parents who are doing combination feeding or they're exclusively formula feeding. There is some beautiful thought out, carefully done formula and also no judgment. I cannot tell you how hard it is to find this kind of tone in infant feeding. And it's such a vulnerable space. So many of my clients have sobbed to me about this space for decades now. So I, and I was there like I was, you know, I'm, I'm a mom, so I've been there.
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A
Oh, thank you, God. You can intro me anytime. That was so beautiful.
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B
This is a very vulnerable space and I think it's important to say that out loud because people might be like, well, this is a sponsored brand and I've been a Bobby fan long before I was a partner and so I appreciate it so much. Ugh.
- [02:18]
A
You know, and even just, just to keep going on what you're saying here, like, it's so much more than powdered milk. This is so much more than what you're choosing to feed your child. It's how you feel about it. It's feeling the joys and the ups and downs. It's feeling connected, it's feeling supported. It's. And whether you've heard of Bobby or you, you haven't used it or it doesn't work for you, going through the emotions and the personal experiences of, of feeding your baby, you know how important it is to feel that connection and support. Yeah, it's everything.
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B
Everything it really is. And it's the first thing you can really do for your infant, other than snuggle and cuddle is feed. It's like how we connect. It's the first thing that we offer. If you're. Even if you're exclusively breastfeeding, pumping and giving your partner a bottle is like a gift to them to have a moment of connection.
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A
Well, I'll bring you back. I'll bring you back to the original. Where did it all spawn from? It sort of came from the fact that I went into motherhood with just expectations. I went into motherhood with expectations of this is going to work out. And by the way, it's also going to be easy. And society says my boobs will work and my support system will work and all of this will just work out. And I don't think I had ever considered an alternative. I know I hadn't considered an alternative because when I had my daughter, I had her and then five days in found I needed to turn to an alternative. And the guilt and embarrassment and shame. And now I look back and I'm like, why did I feel like that? Why did I have all of this really personal pressure and judgment put on me at a time when what I really just needed was to feel okay and to feel the joy of just welcoming a baby into the world? And that whole experience just led me down, what I call like sort of my gap year, my research gap year. When I had my daughter, I was combo feeding, I had introduced formula, and I found myself awake at like 2 in the morning doing Google searches around how to feed your baby, what's right, is she going to be okay? Why is the formula landscape never changed? Why do two companies continue to own it? Why is it that the same formula I had as a baby is the same one? I'm buying my baby? It was, it was a long research journey. And that journey just led me to a place I'll never forget. I peed on a stick for the second time and I found out I was pregnant with my second. And that was the moment of saying, I am now going to go do something about this.
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B
Wow. Now, how many years ago was this?
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A
That was nine years ago when I had my first. And it was, I'll never forget, it was like late 2017 when I made the decision to go do something about it.
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B
Amazing. And so what did you do? Because again, I cannot tell you. Like anybody listening, if you've fed an infant, particularly mothers, I just know that it wasn't the. Like, it just is vulnerable Whether it's because you're exhausted or you can't figure out what, what will be pleasing to them, or whether you were so certain that you were going to be able to breastfeed beautifully with no effort whatsoever, or if you just like are, yeah, if you're googling labels, it's very scary when you're like, I'm responsible for giving healthy nutrients to this baby and I don't feel, you know, like there's an option out there, but I also can't breastfeed and all the stuff.
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A
And you're, you're feeding your baby six to eight times a day. It is what's contributing to their growth and development. It is the most time consuming thing that you are doing as a mother. And then on top of that you're sort of expecting it to all work out a certain way. And for what it's worth, I think there's this belief, you know, we can get into the whole breastfeeding versus formula feeding, but we also forget it's so many other factors that play into it as well.
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B
Yes, of course. And, and I actually like, I so support mothers in whatever feeding journey they're on, which I know you do too. And I think that's a beautiful part of this brand that I almost don't want to get into the breastfeeding versus formula feeding, because that's not the conversation.
- [06:47]
A
No, it's not. And it's a really, really, really important message. It is so important for everyone, not just those that are feeding their baby, but their support system, their significant other, the real formula else that surrounds your decision, your choice, even the availability, the access, the policies for how you choose to feed your baby. And feeding your baby is the choice. It is what you're doing. And no matter how that path works for you is the right one. And going back and questioning it and playing hindsight is not it. And it's also important to remember even those like you're saying, I mean, I breastfed all four of my babies for all different, all different durations. Some were easy, some were hard, some boobs worked, some didn't. In fact, some of them even just weaning off was more challenging than others. And the wake up call, even through those going through my own four experiences, every single experience is different and personal. And if you liken, if you try and liken what your journey looks like to someone else, you will be left disappointed. It is so hard to consume. So everyone just needs to embrace their own journey.
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B
It's so true. That should be the conversation Is that everybody needs to. And having four kids is a great opportunity to believe what you're saying, which is like, they're all going to be different, and it's not you. And it's not, you know, it's not like the choice. It's the relationship.
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A
It is the relationship. We're talking about expectations a lot. This has been a unique insight through building the Bobby journey. There's a lot of studies on actions that result in a lot of outcomes, and those outcomes are reported out on stats. And I think through this journey, one of the things we've really come to learn is that the state of that parent mother leading into the journey, what was her expectations going into it? And it's almost like disappointment equals expectations minus reality. Your reality is shaped by the expectations you have going into it. And I will tell you, I don't think one person had the feeding conversation with me going into motherhood. I don't think I even thought about it.
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B
Wow.
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A
The idea of me even adding a formula to my. To my baby registry wouldn't have even crossed my mind.
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B
Like, no plan. No. No plan.
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A
No. So, you know, when I think even just about Bobbi, one of the most beautiful things we've done is opened up the conversation and allowed those going into motherhood to start seeing maybe what reality would look like through other stories, through seeing it on social, to sort of just normalizing that. It's all very different. Even as I'm saying this out loud, I don't think I've ever fully vocalized it, but expectations is such a massive input in itself into how people result.
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B
I mean, if you think about. Yeah, Those early moments with a newborn, it's so true that if you had support systems that helped you manage your expectations and helped you know that you're worthy, however, it all lands like, it would change so many postpartum experiences.
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A
It really would. Yeah. And, you know, this is a personal story, but, you know, I grew up in the west of Ireland.
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B
I wanted to know that. So I'm glad you're telling me.
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A
There you go. And I grew up in a small little town in Ireland. My grandmother had 13 children, and she breastfed all of them. And I just went in with expectations and the assumption that, hey, my lineage was able to do this, and me now having babies here in America, I just assumed it would be the same. I didn't even draw the differences of what my grandmother had gone through to what I'm going through, of which, you know, I think I had my first child 15 years after she would have had her 15, her first child.
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B
Wow.
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A
So you just, you know, and like, now it's, it's. I even again saying this, I'm almost embarrassed thinking that I just assumed. I just assumed.
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B
But of course, how could you not if there wasn't a support system to say, like, hey, by the way, this could be looking different for you.
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A
Looks very different. My village wasn't. It didn't exist. It doesn't even. It wasn't even there. I had to go back to work pretty quickly. The policies in this country are different. The entire system is different. And that played a very big impetus even in creating Bobby, because I started to look at how society at large had changed. It was almost the anthropology of it all. And how do we take that into account when it comes to raising our babies and feeding our babies, which is so much more than the product.
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B
So much more than the product. But okay, along those lines, you still have an amazing product.
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A
Yes.
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B
So. And I think it's important to understand, like, I don't want to scare people that any product is like, everybody's gonna be fine. They're so lucky to have food and healthy food is, you know, like, I, I, this is not a scare thing. But I do think it's nice that somebody came in and said, I think there's a, like, more thoughtful way we can make a formula option for parents.
- [12:30]
A
I love that you opened up with that because you would hear me repeat that as well. Two things can be true at the same time. There is no such thing as a bad product. There's no such thing as a bad formula. And you can also put out choice that maybe improves the options on shelf. And that was the goal. I look at my, my, my eldest, who consumed a formula that I have now gone to better from, and she is doing as good and as gracious the rest of the kids who consumed Bobby. But, yeah, look, the way I look at it is science has evolved and it will continue to evolve. And I found myself reading the back of a can of formula going, why are we still using these ingredients? Or why do these levels of nutritionals look like this when this science is basically pointing to it should be more optimal at a different level. And I was a crazy researcher, Mom. I'm still a crazy researcher. And I found myself just digging into it, going, why, why, why, why, why? And the reality is, is that there's no reason that it shouldn't have been different. The only reason is that no one had done it.
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B
That's wild.
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A
It is wild. And now it's like, it's been a long journey, it's been a hard journey. But I don't want, I don't want there to be this assumption that it was rocket science. It's not rocket science at all. It's about coming in and saying, you know what? Natural milk sugar is lactose and instead of having corn syrup as the carbohydrate, let's use lactose. It's saying that DHA is a nutrient that many countries say is important for cognitive development. So let's add dha. And I get the question a lot, which is, well, why hadn't existing companies here in the US evolved to do that themself? And the very reductionist response I can give is I don't think they were incentivized to. And you see this in every industry. What would have woken them up at scale? Remember, they were already serving 90% of the market to say, hey, you know what? Today we're going to radically change our product.
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B
Right.
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A
And I hope that I'm seeing it today. But fast forward six years later, but Bobby has pushed the status quo enough that you are seeing those changes.
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B
Yeah, there are more options because you made it necessary and possible.
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A
And we push the incentives of it. And that's what pushing competition looks like. And ideally, the industry at large is better for it.
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B
So you fed your first baby with just you fed. Did you feed your second baby with Bobby or was it your third? Like, when did, how fast did this happen?
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A
Yes, it was my third.
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B
I was going to say that would be too fast. It would be like, how did you make that?
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A
This was, this was very optimistic. Pregnant me, when I was Bobby, I put together a business plan and I drew the business plan out in trimesters. I was like, okay, my first trimester, I'm going to get this short list of things done. And then my second trimester is. By the third trimester, the product's going to be coming off the manufacturing line. It's going to be beautiful and ready for my baby. And it did not work out that way. I think all of the reality of producing a highly regulated CPG product, pharmaceutical grade product, came to light later in my pregnancy. And it took an additional year and a half on top of that. And it was ready for my third, by the way.
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B
I think that is good because it means like a lot. It's. You can't just, you can't just make a new infant formula. Like, that's, that's a serious business.
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A
It would be the wild west if.
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B
It Was that easy?
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A
Yeah. And you know, I think again, let's nurture the tension between two things being true at the same time. Having a highly regulated industry can prevent speed to innovation. It can prevent new options. It's capitally intense. It takes a long time. And yet having regulatory oversight also gives you the safety and the confidence in the product that's coming to market. So I have a lot of gratitude for there being a regulatory body in place. It's important.
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B
As a mother. Totally. Like, maybe the business side is like.
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A
Oh, I wear two different hats all day every day on this. But it is important. Yeah.
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B
What did it feel like the first time you gave Bobby to your baby?
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A
Oh, you know, I don't think I've ever been asked this question. Well, first off, Bobby is the name that my daughter called her bottle. My first daughter, and she used to ask for a Bobby. Oh, so it's such a meaningful word and name and now brand that to be able to translate what she used to refer to as her bottle to now being the product that I get to feed her siblings is so beautiful. That's cool. You know, asking the word, like, how did it feel? Obviously a level of pride and excitement and joy to get to that place. There's also, I think, a little bit of comfort in knowing I'm about to give a product to the rest of the country, to other babies that I am willing to feed my own baby.
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B
Yeah, that's cool.
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A
It is cool. And just knowing that this is something I am willing to do for my own children and continue to do because I believe in every ounce of what we've developed.
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B
It's funny because I would think, like most things with our kids, like, we're so much more invested than anybody else. So, like, if someone else is driving the carpool, it doesn't feel as good as if you're driving the carpool. And I would imagine that it's like, oh, I made this. Like, I know every single ingredient in here. I know how it happened. I know how it was manufactured. Like, I. This is for you, my child.
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A
Like, we lost sleep over the details. And I mean every detail. We always say that, like we're test obsessed because that product that is coming off the line, that needs to be tested for contaminants that we need to make sure has all the nutritional continue to be nutritionally intact that is helping grow our own child. There's nothing more personal. Nothing more personal. Oh, my God, you're having me reflect back. It's so beautiful.
- [19:29]
B
Well, it's a Big thing that you did. And I think like, you could have also just figured out, I don't know, like some rogue product that you just made for your family and like hoped that it was really good and high quality and not worried about anybody else. But I think this is, you know, it's made for change, especially like right now. And I don't really want to get into this because it's become politicized and totally almost ruined my feelings about like corn syrup and state food safety and all that stuff. Right. Because it's like been taken over by anti science. But I think like, in a world where anti science is talking about some things that are actually on the right path, but like a lot of things that are absolute gobbledygook, I think it's really important to have like thoughtful, scientifically robust people talking about the important stuff related to what goes into our children's bodies. And then we can hopefully like remind ourselves. Well, I know on this podcast, like there's nobody that is listening to this podcast that doesn't like science in combination with like heart and soul and human. But like, so I think I can say with pretty good confidence that my listeners like this, raising good humans, families pretty into science regardless of what their political belief systems are. And so all politics away. I think it's like a weird time right now for products that are thinking about what goes into your child's body, your baby's body, because now it's associated with like the wrong team or something.
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A
Yes, yes, yes.
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B
So and, and some like absolutely non scientific ways of looking at it. So I really want to hear from you from the scientific perspective of like the choices that you made, which you've already mentioned some of them.
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A
Yeah, be.
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B
Because I think it's still important to have these conversations even though this landscape is so wonkadoodle. I've made up two words today. Gobbledygook and wonkadoodle.
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A
Okay. I love that you're raising this because the thing that I think has been painful to watch really over the last few months is a little bit of the fear mongering misinformation.
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B
Yeah.
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A
By the way, no mom who's just had a baby, who needs that 20 pounds overweight, going through an identity crisis, questioning all choices needs to go. Hold on a second. Is this dangerous to feed my child? No, it's not. Yeah, it's not.
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B
Thank you.
- [22:12]
A
No, it is not. And mom, you're listening to this. You are doing an incredible job and no doubt the choice that you have chosen is right for you, it's the thing that's suitable, it's affordable, it's accessible, all of the rest. And all of those things are so important. Let's not Forget Rewind to 2022. I say it like it's a huge historical, like back in history. It was only a few years ago America couldn't feed babies. We got to a place where there was an infant formula shortage. And I remember in that moment all of a sudden all of the things that everyone was nitpicking at and this and that. What was most important was do you have access to food to feed your baby? And when you zoom out on it all and you look at all of the different factors that play into it and like the science and the makeup of the product is important and the production and availability of that product creating the resiliency in an industry to ensure that we've got more options and we're not reliant on one manufacturer to make all infant formula. It plays a really, really important role to not get lost on some of the details that I think have taken over and maybe the misinformation of what people are getting caught up on. Speaking to the science piece of it. Oh, again, I've heard thinking about what people are worried about versus not so maybe I think it's worth unpacking a little bit of like where this has come from. And there's a difference between, let's say the FDA setting nutritional standards versus the makeup and recipe of a product. So I share all of this because I do think it's important to go, why are people questioning American formula? Why are people questioning the science of formula? And here's the high level reasons. Why is that America and our agency has not meaningfully updated the requirements for infant formula since the 1980s. And when you zoom out, science has evolved to say, you know what, DHA is required for a baby's cognitive development and formula should have it. That is not yet being reflected back into the requirements for infant formula. And I could go through another laundry list of it iron levels. Science says that there's an optimal level of iron for an infant. Our nutritional facts that are coming from FDA have not yet been updated to reflect that. So there's a short list of what these things are and it is important to go. The difference between our government agency updating it versus you fearing the products on shelf are two radically different things.
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B
Thank you.
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A
Radically different things.
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B
Yeah.
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A
All of the formula that you were purchasing on shelf meets the scientific nutritional outputs your baby needs to grow and develop. It is safe, it is high quality. And just because we need to make some updates doesn't mean that you should fear the product that you were buying and feeding your baby. Those two things can coexist. That is okay.
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B
Yes, those two things can coexist.
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A
And look, in 10 years, there's going to be additional research in science that says, oh, by the way, here's an additional thing that we've now come to learn and needs changing and updating. And as a nation or an agency, then we should make the needed adjustments then. I was speaking to someone about this last week. If you think about the sleeping, I mean, over the last 10 years, for each of my four kids, I feel like every time I've had one, I'm like, hold on. Should they sleep on their back, on their front, on their side? What are the rules again? Or are car seats? And I think when you apply the same principles to things that we learn over time, the same applies to the nutritional requirements for an infant as well. And just knowing that they have to keep evolving, science will evolve, our formula will evolve, and you don't have to fear the product that you're feeding them today, full stop.
- [26:32]
B
Thank you. Like, thank you for saying it that way. And also, you know, keeping up with the science, I think you can keep. We all want to keep evolving.
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A
Things can evolve and they can improve. And just because something can improve doesn't make the previous less than or harmful. We need to find a more succinct way to capture this. But this is, like, this is the essence of it all. And it is so important in this moment, as parents navigate, so much information, so much misinformation that they don't get caught up in it.
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B
Yeah, I. And I don't. Especially, again, at this vulnerable time, like, if you are feeding an infant, you are not someone to be messed with.
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A
Like, do not mess with mom.
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B
Do not mess with Mom. There's too much that is so vulnerable and precious that's going on for you. This should not be one of the things that causes tears. This should be the thing where you're like, I'm taking a breath. And like, any. Any version of this does not call into question my child's safety or my worthiness. Yeah. And also, here's my plan.
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A
Stunning. Hear, hear. Mic drop.
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B
So thank you for. For having the tenacity to do this, because what a ridiculous undertaking.
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A
You know, someone asked me recently, they were like, and I think our product, I call her a.
- [28:03]
B
She.
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A
She's beautiful. And we've got many options. Of her for what works for a baby and doesn't. We are having innovation conversations daily. We've created what we call Bobby Labs. And we have the most incredible group of scientists, nutritional scientists, pediatricians, advisors who are supporting on the every little change that we believe could continue to evolve this, to continue to push science and make it better. And when we do, we're not going to hold back and I'm also not going to look back at my original and my starting version and question it. So we should be able to evolve as humans in the same way that our products should be able to evolve without questioning our past.
- [28:48]
B
I love that. I hope that, you know, if somebody is curious about this, can you tell us, like, how they can access it and what your recommendations are without. Again, everybody is going to have a unique experience.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They all have different experiences. And by the way, if Bobby doesn't work for you, then, hey, just be part of our community. And we do a lot of work outside of our product that I believe relates to every household and what a parent is going through, whether it's fighting for policy changes, honestly, whether it's just changing the conversation. But what I would say, if you are looking for a formula, definitely check us out. Hi, Bobby.com and the one other. One other highlight I want to have, which we recently launched a service called the Feeding Room.
- [29:47]
B
Oh, tell us about it.
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A
This was like my second baby. I was just so excited to do something about this. This pained me. I became. I became a mother. I needed a support system. And I remember finding myself calling lactation consultants, who, by the way, are the most incredible, incredible support system in humans. And they were fantastic. And they helped me figure it all out and navigate it. And one of the challenges I found was I was moving between different resources and I was really struggling with where's the holistic place to support me through feeding? Not just through lactation support or not just through bottle feeding or going to a blog or a subreddit to learn what formula worked for me. I needed something holistic. And we've created the Feeding room. So even if you're not a formula feeder, if you're not using Bobi, you can use the feeding room, you can meet lactation consultants, you can talk through your feeding goals. And we've offered a service that feels like the more holistic feeding support that I think every parent is looking for.
- [30:50]
B
Every time we support each other and support mothers, especially again, at this vulnerable time, I think we are doing our part to sort of make this, I mean, just have more ease. Like, everybody deserves that grace and grace. And we all have to have that. And please nobody. If you have. Have had a feeding journey and you're looking back and talking to a new mother, don't impose it on them.
- [31:20]
A
No, no, no, no. You know, and the question. It all comes down to the question. Next time you engage with a new mother or new parent, instead of asking them, how is breastfeeding going, you ask them, how is feeding going?
- [31:35]
B
That's a great pivot.
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A
There you go.
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B
It's a little tweak that can make somebody go from feeling support, like, judged to support it.
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A
Yes, yes. Let's not assume. And maybe, maybe it is going fantastic.
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B
Yeah. But then it's a great time to talk about it. Like, you can share how beautifully your experience breastfeeding is, but you. It wasn't phrased in a way that sets you up if you're not. Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you for talking to us about this. Is there anything else that you want to tell everybody that I didn't address?
- [32:09]
A
So, you know, you're doing something so much bigger than the product when you start to see how people are engaging with your brand. We have what we call our, like Love Letter channel on Slack with the team. And these aren't, like, small reviews. People are writing in love letters where sometimes they don't even mention the product. What they're highlighting is how we have saved them during a very hard time. Or the joy that they have in reading are stickers that sit on top of the can where we give them a vote of confidence or we share a fact or a fun story or a joke. And again, I think what is so important for brands today is to relate to the full customer and to the full moment that they're going through. We always said at the very beginning we know we've changed culture. When we can start to see that people are wearing Bobby across their chest, if they're willing to put on swag and that swag is a formula company, then we're doing something right. And I am proud to say that one of our most requested products right now are our sweaters. So it's beautiful to see truly the conversation change, culture change. And hopefully we look back and we don't see how you feed your baby as something that is questioned or people being judged by. And I know we'll have done our job if that's the case.
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B
Hear, hear. To.
- [34:00]
A
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.
- [34:05]
B
Individuals on the show may have a.
- [34:07]
A
Direct or indirect financial interest in products.
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B
Or services referred to in this episode.