← Raising Good Humans
Raising Good Humans
Holiday Talks with Drew Barrymore: Is Santa Real, Creating Meaningful Traditions, and Tips on How to Cultivate Gratitude
00:52:26
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
- [00:15]
B
Welcome to Raising Good Humans. Happy Holidays everybody. I'm thinking of all of you. I know this is a beautiful and fun, fabulous and hard and exhausting time of year and I hope you're all thriving or getting through it. I am so psyched you're taking a little break to have some time to yourself and join me and Drew Barrymore as we talk about the holidays, the pressure, the meaning of the holidays. And we're tackling some of the questions that come up during the holiday season. Talking about making meaning, underplaying the gift, materialism, parts of it all, enjoying the rituals of it all, and some practical stuff like what to say when your kids ask you if Santa is real. If you enjoy this episode, don't hesitate. In fact, go write a review. That would be the best Christmas present for me. Write a little review and give it a five star rating and tell me that you want to see more episodes like this. And as always, I am thinking of different ways to reach you. I'm on Instagram at Raising Good Humanspodcast. I have a substack, drelizapressman substack.com it's free, it comes out every week, sometimes more. And we have monthly meetings if you want to join the premium substack. We just go on zoom and chat once a month for $4.99. And then of course my book the Five Principles of Parenting. Your Essential guide to Raising Good humans is a great start to the new year.
- [01:55]
C
But we get lost in commerce and wanting and lists and Santa and the elf is watching and oh my God. Wait, what are we talking about?
- [02:03]
A
Oh my God and the elf is watching or the Mensch on a bench, depending on your.
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C
We have both, right?
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A
There you go. You're actually. Your kids celebrate both? Yeah, mine just do mensch on a bench. Except we don't do Mensch on a bench. But we do Hanukkah. And I will go over why, what I think fits together with this idea of gratitude and how in conflict the Elf on the Shelf is with also trying to teach your kids kindness and gratitude.
- [02:33]
C
Well, how about that? Also Frankie has decided she wants the Elf on the Shelf to be out and about all year round. So the fact that the Elf on the shelf is now a toy and not this pillar of he's watching you reporting back to Santa like that only lasted a year.
- [02:52]
A
Also, I think it's great that she said that because that's basically what we're doing to kids when we do this whole thing of Elf on a shelf and somebody's watching you to see if you're good or bad for this one time period. And then it's like, how in the world can you keep a message the rest of the year that's completely in conflict with the elf on a shelf message? With the idea of like someone's watching you for no apparent reason other than to make sure that you're good or nice. And so that's already message. One problem is that we're always saying like we're talking about our kids behavior, not who they are. The elf on the shelf is like, no, you're naughty, you're nice and you.
- [03:36]
C
Is it the black and white that you don't like? You want the more the grays?
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A
It's actually that is part of it. But more for me it's, it's labeling the kids as an attribute of naughty or nice versus today. When you did this thing, it wasn't nice. Is very different. It feels different than you're a naughty kid. That's a really big thing to say. And then the other part of it that's tricky is that we're always saying, listen, we don't make arbitrary rules. The reason why I ask this of you is because. And that helps us to give kids the belief that we have a purpose in our rules and regulations and boundaries. Now all of a sudden it's like no explanation. It's just what the elf on the shelf thinks. So that's also confusing and it doesn't motivate intrinsic goodness because you're just like, if it didn't, if the elf didn't see it, it didn't happen.
- [04:38]
C
Right. The inanimate object that only comes out for a 30 day period.
- [04:42]
A
Exactly. So 11 months of the year. Now all of a sudden you're supposed to do the right thing with nobody watching. Do the wrong thing with nobody watching. But during that one month, something is watching and you will be rewarded for frankly not being nice, but for not being naughty.
- [05:03]
C
Well, I think, you know, you can sort of chalk up because the world really does like gear up for the holidays. Like so I can almost see, you know, and there are different obviously religious beliefs and some of this conversation just may not apply. There's the age old question of, you know, when do I tell them Santa Claus is raining?
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A
Which I think we should talk about too.
- [05:27]
C
Absolutely.
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A
But let's just use the elf on the shelf right now because I think it applies to a lot of other activities that happen whether or not you actually do Christmas or Elf on A shelf. But elf on a shelf. How do you keep that tradition but maybe tweak it so that it gives an easier message to swallow? Or do you say like, nah, I don't care.
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B
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- [09:02]
C
You know, I think you can justify certain things for, like, holidays because it comes around every year. No one's shutting down the holidays anytime soon. So I can get behind like we have this time. The seasons change. There's, you know, the music, the food, the commercials, the atmosphere, the merriment. Like, it is really abundant. And so I think that the elf on a shelf, probably to me is surrounded by so much backup. He's got so many backup singers of everyone. Holidays, holidays, holidays. What I have a bigger problem with that maybe you can help me with is why the spirit of taking care of people goes out the window through the rest of the year. Like, that is something that I find strange.
- [09:56]
A
Right. So if you are gonna take the time to do something nice and have this time of year elicit kindness.
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C
Yes.
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A
How can we carry that over all year? And I think that part of it is if you can tweak elf on a shelf or mensch on a bench or any of the other traditions that come with these wonderful happy times or merriment, as you said, to notice the kind moments or make the, you know, leave a little note, that's making a kind suggestion or noticing the things that we've done right. At least there's some kind of message of that's what the focus is. And this is just an overwhelming reminder for this month at least. Then there's. It's less about what am I going to get? What materialistic thing am I going to get? Which doesn't mean that you shouldn't get presents and have fun with it and all of that wonderful stuff. But if you really want this to infiltrate who we are and what these memories are and that they are part of growing kindness, you can make this very materialistic time of year a beautiful thing and carry it over the rest of the time. And part of that is also truly Every single day having a gratitude elf. You know, there's research. I just made that up. So I don't know what a gratitude elf is, but there is research that.
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C
If you, I want to trademark it, I'm gonna go on GoDaddy, like ASAP.
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A
But there's research that if you write down something you're grateful for every day, just for a month, that it actually makes you feel more grateful and happier and have more positive wellbeing. If that's the case, that's something you can do with children from the beginning. And what they're grateful for is none of our business. So will a 4 year old say they're grateful for the food on their plate and their family? Maybe they probably will say more like the ice cream they got. And that's okay because what we're teaching them is to take a moment every single, single day of their lives and say what made me feel like I'm lucky today.
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C
I was thinking about, you know, how I always try to like, make my kids presents, like crafty or hey, this Christmas, like the gift is really about, like we're gonna do something, right?
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A
And an experience.
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C
Yes, an experience. Not everybody can go and travel on Christmas, but like doing something, an adventure and building. I try to build my kids so that they'll want to do things rather than have things, you know, and that.
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A
When you start those things early and you treat them like special gifts instead of just the thing that you're doing that day that's on the side, then that's something they crave and long for, which is this quality experience that they're having. And I know my mom, and we celebrated Hanukkah and she gave and she's just like this, like for everything. She just recently gave my oldest daughter a happiness box, her happy box, where she just opens it and has it filled with things that she, Penelope, feels like smiling about.
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C
Oh God, that's so good.
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A
And those were the kinds of presents I got as a kid and I still get from my mom, by the way. The gratitude elf, the journaling, the crafty gifts, the happy box. Those things sound hokey and can get eye rolls if you start it with seventh graders. But if that is part of your, you know, you have five and seven year olds, like, those become magical memories over the years.
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C
And I'm here to say to every parent out there that when you hand over the happiness box and your kid like, looks at you like, what the hell is this? That that's okay too.
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A
They hear that message, they feel it, and they know what you value.
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C
I started as soon as my kids were old enough, like 2 and 3, 3 and 4. I started doing, you know, baby 2 baby, which is a West coast organization. And you get a family and that family gives you their list and you get presents for that family. We did stockings with care. That's east coast based. That's the same principles again.
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A
We should post a list. I will put in the notes. I've thought of that organizations that.
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C
Toys for Tots is a great national organization because baby 2 baby is stockings of the care are city oriented. And if you're not the reason, I suggest going to a local shelter, church, soup kitchen is. So I started doing that. I found the experience of giving gifts for anonymous families, which most of these organizations have to do and run it that way for so many reasons. Security, safety, dignity. It's all like, you can't question their process. But for kids, it is hard when they cannot see the transaction.
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A
It's not really teaching them anything except that you are. Which is very important too, to see that they're getting that that is a part of what your family values are. But that's not gonna do anything more than that.
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C
And we do it every year. And I gotta say, it never really runs that smoothly.
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A
And it will eventually.
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C
I do think that it's the actions, it's not the words. Cause I also used to like, talk it up. Isn't this amazing? Like, I was writing this It's a Wonderful Life, you know, Like, I was literally like, isn't this great, kids? Don't you feel the spirit of Christmas? Aren't you. Isn't it getting through your darn skulls how important it is to be a giver and not a taker? And they're just looking at me and they're hungry and they're tired and it's after school and we're running around and it's like, oh, this is not how I pictured this. And I think there were times where I thought, I just, I'm not gonna do this. Cause it's just not fun. And I thought, you know what? I can't give up. What I need to do is stop expecting that my kids are having the Kumbaya Aha Oprah moment. And accept the fact that if we just do this every year, that routine will eventually click in. And that's why people say actions, not words. And where I noticed something, and this is actually what sparked the idea for me to do this podcast with you, and you had your reasons, was I had a revelation this year. And it happened when. It's the same with, like Christmas, where you want to give bonuses to your butcher, your bus driver, your doorman or your mailman. And all these things that we do, these rituals that are so important again at Christmas. Why not other times of years? But Christmas is. I was doing things throughout the rest of the year that were not Christmas myself. I got scarves as a gift. I was giving the bus driver a bonus. Why did I not have my kids do that with me? And it was like the dawn of a revelation of, I don't need to do this once a year. I do this throughout the year as an adult. We have an agreement amongst adults that we take care of each other, we tip each other, we've got each other's back. We show our gratitude in different ways, denominatally or emotionally, whatever that may be. Why do we not bring our kids into it? Then they just see us doing it. They're a part of it. They kind of know how the system works. They get into the routine and you don't have to do this once a year dance. All of a sudden you're a good, giving, thoughtful, aware person, and they need to be too.
- [17:35]
A
It's so important that it's so easy to feel thankful when you write why you're thankful. So if you write a note to the mailman every month to thank him as a child, you're going to feel more aware of the nice thing that he does. And when you get a wonderful gift or a note in the mail, a letter that you've been excited about anything, you're going to think about the fact that it didn't just appear, but a person who did something really nice for you by bringing it had an impact on your day. And so I think it's wonderful, the idea of committing to finding moments every month, every week, that are easy and manageable, like a thank you note to a person in your life, even if it's once a month, your kids sit down and they think of somebody who makes their day better.
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C
Well. And Christmas has become an expected exchange in that way. And so you're like, how do I make this thoughtful and meaningful without creating kids who do expect the exchange for themselves? And somehow we've all gotten the memo that this is important to show people who do things with you in life that you appreciate them. Somehow we all figured it out. Whether we were imprinted by our own examples in front of us, or we.
- [19:02]
A
Just realized it, or we didn't figure it out. I think that that's where you just happen you can be constitutionally more grateful and notice you can have a. Huh.
- [19:13]
C
Never thought of it that way.
- [19:14]
A
Yeah, no, there are people, there are certain attributes that are, are they genetic? Some of them are.
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C
Are they, is it that the nature nurture it like right.
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A
But you definitely get more, you know, you certainly need to see it. But there are certain personality types, empathic, you know them, you see them, there are certain qualities. So an envious person, a person who is, well, certainly narcissistic, that's sort of a no brainer. But envy, control, jealousy, those are people that are typically not really great at noticing what there is to be grateful for. And so this constellation of attributes doesn't lead to an easy road to gratitude. Whereas friendlier people, people who are a little bit more neurotic, oddly, people who have certain qualities that allow them empathy is one of them, that allow them to notice what is good around them and what people are doing good, those people are more grateful and their children are more grateful. It's not, you know, of course, if you are attributionally more grateful, you are going to have a more grateful kid. And not when they're five, but later, you know, over time. And the other cool thing is that we as parents forget to thank our children for the things that they do for us over the holidays and other times in the way that those of us who are grateful, sometimes we'll show others that. But when a little four year old gives you a little note or a drawing, we tend to sort of say like thank you so much and then put it to the side and whatever. But we don't write thank you notes for the little presents our kids give us. And when you do, and certainly on a holiday or a birthday or whatever, and kids give you what they have to give. So even if they rewrap, you might notice siblings wrapped sometimes a toy of theirs to give to one of their siblings. And that's often like a big deal for them. And in your head you're like, seriously, like that's your big give. But it is a big give because what they're doing is saying like I'm. Even if I'm sick of it, it's fine, that's natural. Even if I'm, you know, I wasn't playing with it anyway, I am aware that I want to make the, I want to have the experience of doing something nice for my siblings. And in the thank you from the parents or the siblings to each other, they get to feel that awesome feeling of being thanked, which really inspires doing nice things for others because it feels good.
- [21:54]
C
If Oliver, Frankie rewrapped, you know, a plastic joke poop and gave it to each other, I'd be like, wow, that's amazing.
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A
And then having them write thank you notes to each other for those things, those are. They. They seem silly. They seem formal. And I'm not talking about this because I'm saying it's the polite thing to do. Feeling how good it feels to thank and be thanked. That is highly associated with gratitude.
- [22:20]
B
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- [25:31]
C
I think the holidays evoke a very philosophical internal conversation with us as parents. I want to raise a grateful child. I want to raise a child that doesn't expect and demand things. I want to raise a child that isn't materialistic and only thinks of the holidays as an opportunity to get presents for themselves. These are the fears. How do you combat those fears? What actions do you take? For me, I try to get my kids to be into more crafty projects for presents rather than just like Barbie dream houses. I try to say let's do something rather than get something. And I try to have them do an act, probably a couple, because I'm trying so desperately to drive the point home to them of donating and also bringing food to local places and just doing it on a micro macro level. I want to hit everything. And I have a lot of anxieties around the holidays. There's something about the holidays that always like gives me a lot of anxiety because I just think like, are my kids where I want them to be at as little human beings? And it like provokes that question and.
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A
It provokes that question in all of us. And probably the answer is not yet. Yeah, because they can't be.
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C
Well, you've talked about that in like mom groups of gratitude is like, what are the ages that you can start to see the evidence of if you actually have a cliche, naughty or nice child.
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A
Right. It's not bad to be excited about opening a present under the tree. What's a problem is if you expect that present and then get so many that you just toss them aside, and it's like, more, more, more. But there is something wonderful about waiting for just something that you were super excited about and really experiencing how good that feels. And that gets lost when you get it a lot.
- [27:46]
C
Yeah. So what can you say to parents to avoid that? And what is the dialogue to have with your kid to lead up to a present? Cause this olive got a drawing from a friend for her birthday, and she just, like, tossed it aside as if it was like, oh, my God. I was like, this is the kind of the coolest thing in this pile because it was made.
- [28:11]
A
But it will just probably take her till she's in college to get that. That was the coolest, most thoughtful thing that somebody did. And that's okay, because over time, you're planting these seeds and you're valuing it every time you get something like that and you are giving things like that. But it will take years, because developmentally, it takes, you know, the first six years. Think about this. They believe if they believe in this. Okay, so I did not have Santa for my kids, but we had the tooth fairy and the fantasy stuff that happens in early childhood.
- [28:47]
C
Oh, I'm already into this. Go, go, go.
- [28:50]
A
That fantasy belief and magic, whether it's Santa or the tooth fairy or. I can't really think of anything in Hanukkah that is magical right now. So I'm just going to stick with comparing tooth fairy and Santa. When you are a young child, you believe in endless possibilities, that anything is possible. And that's what makes you terrified of things that seem ridiculous. But it also is what makes you so thrilled and your eyes light up at the idea of magical Santa or when you lose a tooth, that the tooth fairy's gonna come. And it really isn't about getting tons of presents from Santa or money from the tooth fairy. At the beginning, it's truly just magical tales. And then as parents, it's how we grow those stories. And if we're not thinking of them as lying to our kids, but actually just promoting their sense of magic before that ends, then you can really help kids believe in goodness and joy and have a great experience.
- [30:01]
C
What you just said is we're promoting their sense of wonder, magic, and imagination rather than deceiving them, which is what we're being told we're doing. Yeah.
- [30:14]
A
First of all, I don't have any investment in this. I never had Santa. My kids don't have Santa. I have been very clear with them that there are many kids who really get so Much joy and believe in Santa. But so I've been very clear with my kids, like, Santa's not something that we celebrate or believe in in our family, but we have lots of things we do believe in and lots of magical parts of our celebrations. So that's very important. It's just a nice thing. Frankly, it's just a nice thing to do.
- [30:46]
C
I think that's what's so interesting. The way you phrased it, like, to me, just in an instant cured the societal pressure that we're A, supposed to hold up this ruse and then B, we might be doing wrong by them.
- [31:02]
A
This is developmentally part of childhood in every way. We have fairy tales, we have magic. They believe in possibilities. As they turn about 7, 8, 9, they stop necessarily believing in them, but they are willing to continue if you give them reason to. In those moments, you might get asked, is Santa real? And you might say, oh, my God, this is the moment. I don't want to lie to my kids. But you have to make sure they're asking you what you think they're asking. Because what they might be asking is, can I still believe in something like this?
- [31:39]
C
Oh, my God, Weezy, I'm so into this. I really am. Because that is also, there is no book. And for a thing we do every single year at the same time together, we don't discuss. What do I say when my child asks a Santa Rial, Right? What do you say?
- [31:57]
A
And so depending on their age, like.
- [31:59]
C
If a four year old asks you.
- [32:01]
A
Then go ahead and say, well, let's find out tomorrow when we see if he ate those cookies or whatever it is that you want to say or, why don't you write him a letter now? Here, side note. Teach kids to write letters to Santa that aren't asking for things.
- [32:18]
C
Oh, see, I love that the letter.
- [32:20]
A
Can be used in this beautiful way of communicating instead of, here's my list of all the things I want. Because then when a child says, is Santa real? And then you have them write a letter, and then you are put in a position of having to either buy everything they said fulfill. You know, what if it says a unicorn? And then you do get into tricky territory. But if you introduce the idea of letters to Santa because you want to learn a little bit about Santa and you want to talk a little bit about yourself and talk about your hopes and dreams, no harm done.
- [32:54]
C
Maybe Santa's a great pen pal.
- [32:57]
A
Maybe Santa is a great pen pal. I know the tooth fairy always stopped by my children's pillows with a note and always got notes back over the years.
- [33:08]
C
Good.
- [33:09]
B
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A
So.
- [35:52]
B
So that if you find that you're scrolling endlessly, it's going to pop up and say, hey, what's going on here? And there's also a sleep mode which automatically mutes notifications for teens overnight between 10 and 7am Again, all these settings are automated so there's no extra work. It's automatically placing teens into teen accounts. And teens under 16 will need a parent's permission to change any of these settings to be less strict. So don't give them that permission and keep this one less thing you have to be so stressed about.
- [36:22]
C
Sometimes when I ask you advice, you will help me realize something by also asking my kids something like a little.
- [36:32]
A
Bit of gauging where they are.
- [36:35]
C
Yes. And that I find helpful. So if someone says, if a kid says, is Santa real? Maybe that's a good opportunity to say, do you know?
- [36:43]
A
Do you believe in? What do you think?
- [36:44]
C
What do you think? Exactly.
- [36:46]
A
And you can also say, what made you ask? And you can find out, well, some of my friends were saying Santa's not real, but I'd be so sad. And then you could say, you know what, some people don't believe in Santa and some people do in our family, you know, I grew up believing in Santa and Santa's always part of Christmas. So you're just keeping magic alive. You're not actually like doing a disservice or a scientific harm. Now as they get older, 8, 9, 10, certainly now when they ask again, you really want to gauge is this information they really want from you or do they want to know if you're honest with them or is it really that they'd like to keep this dream alive? Once you assess that, you can give them the best answer for that child. And there will come a time when you say, Santa was so important to me, the dream and the magic. Now you're older, so I think you can do the science here. And now it's our job to figure out all the ways to make it magical for the younger kids in our lives. Because when you do things that make people feel magic or joy, you feel great. So that 10 year old that's devastated that Santa's not real after all can really shift to, I had a great decade of magic. Now I can give this to other young people and make magic for them so that we can all experience how good that feels instead of Just being like, I hate you parents. You've lied to me. Because it isn't about truth or lies. It's just about magic and then growing into science and practicality.
- [38:28]
C
It's so interesting. I'm actually making what you said applicable to me as a parent and how magic I want these exchanges of altruism and philanthropy to be for my kids and they're not because they're too young and I'm putting too much expectation on it. And it's what I want is that magic that I want them to feel of how good it feels to care about people other than yourself. I feel like this year probably will be the first year in several years that I'm gonna like take the pressure off and not over talk it to my kids. We're just gonna do it and it's gonna be really simple acts and really doable. And that I need to trust in the rhythm and the consistency of that will be the thing that will in turn. Because the real magic for me is not them getting it in the moment, it's them being those people later in life.
- [39:39]
A
It's letting go of the idea that this Christmas and this Thanksgiving and this holiday season is the one where they're gonna go, aha, I'm gonna save the world and be a good person.
- [39:50]
C
Something I always, like had this like just dream fantasy about was like the brown moving box with the Sharpie writing on it that just said ornaments and goes in the closet or garage.
- [40:03]
A
That's such an image.
- [40:05]
C
And it is such an image.
- [40:08]
A
And you know what? I didn't have it, but I had that image of like, I wonder what that's like to like know what you're doing every year that same time, oh.
- [40:15]
C
I have the same meals. I have the same brown box that I created and every year we add to it and it's the same ornaments. And it's since they can remember, it's the same thing.
- [40:29]
A
That's cool.
- [40:30]
C
And I have built that box. And that box means so much to me that it's like something I vehemently protect. And the same Vince Garaldi, you know, Peanuts album gets played and the, you know, our star in our tree was bought at a drugstore. I think it was like a Duane Reade or something or. No, it was a Rite Aid.
- [41:01]
A
But see, it doesn't matter because that's.
- [41:02]
C
Your tradition and that's our star and the ornaments aren't fancy. And I just want this very pared down Christmas that it doesn't matter if you're from A divorced family or a traditional together family. It doesn't matter if you know where you're from or where you're going. It's like, do you have these memories of something subtle and beautiful? And it isn't about the gifts themselves. It isn't about the lists and requests. It's about traditions. And I feel like commerce gets in the way of the simplicity of the traditions. And I just, for some reason, that's what I hold, like, sacrosanct in the holidays.
- [42:02]
A
And they're so. Rituals grow people so beautifully. Like, holding on to having rituals is so important and it's so important for human development.
- [42:14]
C
And I think this is that time of year where we do get reflective. Like, you know, I wish that I had exactly what I set out to do, which was, you know, mom and dad and Grandma and Grandpa around the Christmas tree in a Norman Rockwell painting. And that's not what we have. And I am convinced Norman Rockwell himself, as I was looking at the girl with the shiner painting, you know, who just has that look in her eye like, he got it, he gets it. He's not trying to force us to feel like we don't fit the confines of the perfect traditional family values. And I think that even the most poster looking family, like, believe me, it just isn't. Like, everybody puts the function as best as they can into dysfunctional families and what I can give for my kids and what I can provide. And in some ways, I have more means than necessary. And in some ways I will beat myself up for a deficit of like, oh, gosh, like, I had this plan and it isn't that. And wait, we're traveling. Is that like not sitting around a tree, like in flannel pajamas, like, giving presents? Do my kids not even understand the concept of, like, Christmas? No, that's good. Like, that's fine. What does it all mean?
- [43:39]
A
There's so much running through all of our minds during this time.
- [43:43]
C
Are we giving enough? Are we doing enough? Like, are they getting it? There's. I have driven myself crazy in the spirit of Christmas. And I think every time I get that brown box with the Sharpie writing out that it's all okay. And something in that moment, at least for me as a parent, the only thing I can sort of control, I feel at ease. And for that time where that Vince Karaldi Peanuts Christmas album plays that 48 minute span or whatever it is, and we're doing the decorations on the tree, something in me always feels okay. And, like, that's what I need to hold onto this Christmas. And that has nothing to do with giving or getting. It's just a tradition.
- [44:40]
A
Those 48 minutes, that box and that music can go everywhere with you.
- [44:46]
C
Yeah. It's a big box.
- [44:49]
A
It's a probably. I feel like that's what Steve Martin is carrying in the jerk.
- [44:55]
C
All I need is this thermos, is this brown box and a ping pong paddle. I think he has.
- [45:02]
A
But that's why everything else. And that's the important thing about all of this is, like, we put so much pressure on ourselves to make magic. And that moment is your most magical moment.
- [45:12]
C
And what is your family's brown box moment? What is that 48 minute of a Christmas album where everything feels calm and. Okay, what is that? And can we find that this Christmas? And I think I might have actually, through our conversations and this podcast, shifted my entire focus about what Christmas is supposed to be. I think you helped me find the meaning of Christmas.
- [45:43]
A
Oh, my God. I mean, it's such a good point. If you just. That's what we can do. We can find our brown box and our 48 minutes and that's enough.
- [45:54]
C
Yeah. And it's okay if it doesn't look the way you think it's supposed to look. It's okay if there's squirmy feelings and it isn't all going perfect. That's a part of it.
- [46:07]
A
Squirmy feelings.
- [46:08]
C
Yeah, I know. It's just like.
- [46:14]
A
That'S, you know, this is. This is between Christmas and. I'm sorry. Between Thanksgiving and Christmas and Hanukkah and.
- [46:24]
C
Kwanzaa and all the. You know.
- [46:28]
A
Or the anti. All of it.
- [46:29]
C
Yeah.
- [46:29]
A
There's still, like, all of this can be translated however you want. Because we're all. All trying to figure out how to balance magic making with having grounded children who are resilient and kind and thoughtful. And that is no easy task. And we try to fit it in in one month.
- [46:54]
C
I'll give you 50 bucks, too. That Olive totally knows Santa doesn't exist and probably has this entire time. She's so frighteningly astute.
- [47:04]
A
And she might not want to be told the answer yet, even if she knows, or she might. She might want to tell you. Santa brought you a gift. That's something kids do. They start to send you notes that are magical.
- [47:20]
C
It's a clue, right? Oh, I love that. I never, like, noticed that for a tell and a take that when your kids start writing from Santa and maybe they are in college at that point, they got it. Like, that's like, that's the grand handoff.
- [47:38]
A
Yes. And you know what? For some people, that's the discussion. Nobody needs to have a real conversation. It's like, okay, and we're in this together now. We're going to let Frankie enjoy this for another couple years.
- [47:52]
C
Yeah, Frankie's probably going to believe in Santa forever.
- [47:55]
A
My college roommate still believes in Santa.
- [47:57]
C
And she.
- [48:00]
A
She says she doesn't, but it's like. But she's like, doing that to be socially acceptable.
- [48:06]
C
Right. What is one thing that we can proactively do as parents to raise good humans during the holidays?
- [48:20]
A
No. So it's after Thanksgiving. Make a gratitude tree. If you have younger children, you can write on the leaves little things they say they're grateful for. And every day add a leaf to these branches. And by New Year's, everybody's going to be feeling just a little bit more of that spirit that we're so clinging to and wanting so much for them to have. And it's so cool and easy. And it does not have to be deep. As they get older, it might be a little deep.
- [48:56]
C
What does the tree look like? Can you do like a little bonsai tree with like, little tags?
- [49:00]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [49:01]
A
That hadn't even occurred to me. I was thinking, yes. You could do anything you want. A bonsai tree with tags.
- [49:06]
C
You could create a stick with like string and a post it and put.
- [49:11]
A
That in a vase. You can get real. You know, you can go to Michael's and get branches, fake branches, and they have gold branches and wood colored branches, and put them in a vase and tie string around a tag and every day again put that tag up, cut out leaf shapes.
- [49:32]
C
Well, it's interesting cause it makes me think like, oh, like the wish tree. But wishing for something is not the same thing as being grateful for something.
- [49:39]
A
It's not the same thing.
- [49:40]
C
And that's kind of the whole crux of Christmas, is you're wishing for something instead of just. What you're saying is, and I'm definitely running out to Michael's and getting this gratitude tree. Because it almost took me aback when you said that. Cause I was like, ooh, I was into my brown box and my tree decorating and my 48 minutes of Vince Garaldi. But that didn't include gratitude. I was grateful for that moment.
- [50:07]
A
I'm grateful for that moment.
- [50:08]
C
But I want to bring my kids into that gratitude. And that's why I asked.
- [50:13]
A
Well, you'll be filling out the gratitude tree too. And you will write that down. And if you write the Same thing every day. They're gonna see it. And if you write a different thing every day, that's what you'll see, and they'll see. What I think is very important about a gratitude tree or a journal or even the word gratitude is that we're just doing these things. We're not saying you need to feel really grateful. We're just saying, so what makes you feel happy today? Let's put it on the gratitude tree. But it's not like. Because you gotta feel grateful during this holiday season. And that will. That.
- [50:49]
C
That's me every year. I'm not kidding. That is me in a nutshell, every single year.
- [50:55]
A
So that's. That's maybe part of the challenge for the grownups is, which is so hard because you're like, oh, my God, you're getting so much.
- [51:05]
C
Yeah, it's okay if the ice cream goes on the gratitude tree that day. It's the practice and the trusting. And if you get that $5 pie and take it to someone somewhere and don't make a federal case of it for your children about why this is so important and wonderful, just do it. You just do it.
- [51:23]
A
You just do it. And over the years, it becomes a part of them the same way it's a part of you. Because in the same way, we don't want our kids doing things or not doing things, because the elf on the shelf or the mensch on the bench is watching them. We don't need them to give us credit for being grateful and generous and doing good things for others. We just need to do it. And they are watching.
- [51:47]
C
Well, I feel like I'm gonna go into this holiday with less expectations myself, and for that, I am grateful for you. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.