How to Actually Handle Feelings with Dr. Marc Brackett

Summary

Podcast Summary: Raising Good Humans with Dr. Aliza Pressman Episode: How to Actually Handle Feelings with Dr. Marc Brackett Air Date: September 19, 2025

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Overview

In this engaging episode, Dr. Aliza Pressman welcomes Dr. Marc Brackett—Director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence and best-selling author of Permission to Feel—to discuss the practical how-to’s of emotion regulation for both adults and children. Dr. Brackett shares research-based strategies from his new book, Dealing with Feeling, and the two psychologists get candid about the messy realities of parenting, emotional contagion, and learning to handle feelings in ourselves so we can genuinely support our kids. The conversation is filled with warmth, humor, and actionable advice for parents and caregivers who want to foster healthy emotional skills in their homes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write Dealing with Feeling? (01:05)

• Dr. Brackett explains the evolution from his earlier book (Permission to Feel) to a deeper dive into emotional regulation as the most requested need by parents and professionals during the pandemic.
• He shares how the pandemic exposed gaps in our emotional coping skills—even for experts. Personal stories illustrate that everyone struggles sometimes (e.g., cohabitating with his mother-in-law for eight months).

Quote:
"People started writing me and say, you know, Mark, thank you for giving me permission to feel, but what the blank do I do with all these freaking feelings?"
—Dr. Marc Brackett (01:45)

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2. Defining Emotion Regulation (03:30)

• Dr. Brackett offers a clear and inclusive definition: "It's using our emotions wisely to achieve our goals"—not about denial or mere self-control, but purposeful engagement.
• He outlines five functions: prevent, reduce, initiate, maintain, and enhance emotions, covering anticipatory regulation, reducing intensity, cultivating desired feelings, holding onto positive states, and amplifying them.

Quote:
"Emotion regulation is the thoughts and the actions that we use to prevent unwanted emotions, reduce the difficult ones, initiate the ones we want to feel, maintain the ones that we want to keep, and enhance the ones that we want to have—in the service of having good well-being, making decisions, having good relationships, and achieving our goals."
—Dr. Marc Brackett (06:41)

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3. The Central Role of Emotion Regulation for Parents (07:00)

• Dr. Brackett boldly declares emotion regulation "the most important skill you can teach yourself and your kids."
• He references his experience at Yale, observing students outwardly perfect but internally overwhelmed and anxious, underscoring emotion regulation as essential life curriculum.

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4. Home Curriculum and Co-Regulation (11:37)

• Dr. Pressman asks how parents can make emotional regulation part of everyday family life before it enters school curricula.
• Brackett insists that adults must take the lead: "You gotta deactivate before you can co-regulate" (11:57) and discusses the dangers of "co-dysregulation," when adults transmit their own stress to children.

Memorable Exchange:
Pressman: "What's the word for co-regulation when you're not regulated?"
Brackett: "Call it co-dysregulation." (13:09)

• The hosts get real about moments of parental dysregulation, with Pressman humorously recounting a time she lectured her daughter—a story that resonates for many listeners. (14:01)

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5. The Meta-Moment: A Practical Framework (16:30)

• Dr. Brackett introduces the "Meta Moment"—a stepwise process for catching oneself before reacting automatically.
  1. Sense what you’re feeling (sometimes even just “this is not good”).
  2. Pause—"underrated, but crucial."
  3. Take a breath, and pivot your attention from the trigger to your values and the parent/self you want to be.
  4. Use cues (like a ring, bracelet, or a physical symbol) as reminders to check in with your best self.
  5. Strategize and choose your response rather than react.

Quote:
"In that breath: best self, best self, best self. … It could be a ring on your finger to remind you, a bracelet, an image. Then you strategize through that lens. … And it works really well."
—Dr. Marc Brackett (22:51)

• Dr. Pressman reflects: pairing physical/visual cues with mindful breathing is more effective for her than relying on breath alone. (23:45)

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6. Developmental Examples and Teaching Kids (30:52)

• The Meta Moment is adaptable for young children, who can use physical actions (deep breaths, drawing, squeezing a ball) and visual strategy walls to choose coping strategies.

• Dr. Brackett shares a charming example:
  Kindergarten Song:
  "Meta moment, Meta moment, help me find my super me, Meta moment, Meta moment, help me find my strategy." (31:20)

• Kids are encouraged to self-select coping strategies: "Emotion regulation doesn’t have to be that complicated. When you’re five ... it’s developmental." (31:39)

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7. Permission to Feel + Reframing Emotions (33:43)

• Dr. Brackett emphasizes that regulation doesn’t mean suppressing feelings; it's about using and reimagining them.
• He shares his personal journey reinterpreting anxiety—not as a threat but as a sign he cares deeply about his work.

Quote:
"I have reimagined what anxiety means for me … You’re anxious about things you’re passionate about and really care about. Why would that be a bad thing?"
—Dr. Marc Brackett (34:31)

• He adds, emotional patterns are often inherited: "I learned to be dysregulated when I felt anxious from my mother … she would just get so flustered and so overwhelmed." (35:11)

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8. Always Approach, Never Avoid (36:44)

• Key principle: with children’s emotions—especially negative ones—parents should "always approach, never avoid." This is a memorable, actionable mantra.

Quote:
"Parent-child is always approach, never avoid. Of course, it’s a signal that a need is not being met. It’s a signal that something is wrong in that child’s environment and they need co-regulation."
—Dr. Marc Brackett (36:44)

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9. Long-Term vs. Short-Term Emotional Goals (43:24)

• Dr. Pressman asks about reconciling immediate emotional strategies with larger parental goals.
• Brackett advises balancing short-term de-escalation (e.g., removing oneself, taking deep breaths) with later, skillful reflection and repair—when calm returns.

Quote:
"In the beginning, it’s a meta moment. … That fuse or that space between stimulus and response gets shorter and shorter the more skillful you get."
—Dr. Marc Brackett (46:42)

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10. Managing Impermanence & Building Hope (47:09)

• Brackett highlights coaching himself and others through difficult feelings by reminding that "emotions are temporary; they are impermanent. Just like the tide of the ocean, it always comes in and always goes out." (49:17)
• Parental empathy, modeling, and coaching help children develop this perspective.

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11. Celebrating Positive Empathy (51:40)

• The episode closes with a powerful lesson: preserving and savoring positive emotions is as crucial as responding to negative ones.
• Brackett recounts teaching children to practice "positive empathy"—helping others deepen and prolong feelings of joy, accomplishment, and elation.

Quote:
"We don’t really think about empathy as helping someone to continue to feel a pleasant feeling. ... That’s the same, it’s another form of empathy."
—Dr. Marc Brackett (54:01)

• Research shows that, looking back, people cherish those who help them preserve joyful feelings even more than those who comforted them in sadness.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• "The most important skill you can teach yourself and your kids."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (07:00)

• "You gotta deactivate before you can co-regulate."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (11:57)

• "If you find yourself lending this dysregulated state to your kids...how do we walk it back in real time?"
  —Dr. Liza Pressman (14:30)

• "Pause. In that breath: best self, best self, best self."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (22:02)

• Kindergarten meta moment song:
  "Meta moment, Meta moment, help me find my super me..."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (31:20)

• "Parent-child is always approach, never avoid."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (36:44)

• "Emotions are temporary; they are impermanent. Just like the tide..."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (49:17)

• "We don’t really think about empathy as helping someone to continue to feel a pleasant feeling... That’s another form of empathy."
  —Dr. Marc Brackett (54:01)

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Final Thoughts

Dr. Brackett and Dr. Pressman deliver a heartfelt, practical masterclass for anyone seeking to parent with emotional wisdom. This episode demystifies emotional regulation, removes the shame from inevitable parental missteps, and offers the science and tools to do better—one feeling, one moment, and one kid at a time.

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For more:
Pick up Dr. Brackett’s Dealing with Feeling for deeper strategies, stories, and exercises on emotional regulation for families and classrooms.

Transcript

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Welcome to Raising Good humans podcast. I'm Dr. Liza Pressman and I'm holding the book Dealing with feeling by Dr. Mark Brackett, who's the director of the.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yale center for Emotional Intelligence.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

He's also the author of the best selling book probably Permission to Feel, which we've talked about on this very podcast. And I cannot wait for this conversation.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Thank you.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I think at the end of the day, we've talked about this before. We need to know how to deal with our own feelings and regulate our emotions instead of focusing so much on having our kids regulate their emotions. But I think maybe one follows the other. But since you're the world's leading expert on emotion regulation, I shall be quiet now. And I just want you to go and I want you to first tell us exactly why you're, you're giving us this book.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Okay. So, you know, it's interesting because we did speak when I wrote Permission to Feel. And I remember having just an amazing conversation with you and you know, that conversation was around, you know, why we need to give ourselves the permission to feel and there's no such thing as a bad emotion. All these things that we all agree upon as psychologists, you know, who study feelings and work with people. And then the pandemic hit and I was, you know, my center closed because the university closed and I had 50 employees at the time and everybody was going out of their minds, you know, moms raising kids and on zoom for the first time working and people were just freaking out. I had employees from Yale calling me that. They were getting, you know, like beaten up at the grocery store for coming too close for somebody. I had my own issues because as I share in my book, for me it was pretty eye opening how unskilled I was because my mother in law got stuck with us. And it just, we thought she was going to go home after two, three, two, three weeks. Lo and behold, she stayed with us for eight months and you know, we just all hated each other after the first three months. You know, I always joke like the dogs were peeing on the rugs. You know, nobody wanted to have dinner with each other. Breakfast was a nightmare because, you know, I like coffee by myself. And you know, anyway. And so people started writing me and say, you know, Mark, thank you for giving me permission to feel, but what the blank do I do with all these freaking feelings? And it just realized, I just realized that I needed to go deeper in that regulation piece. And then I just started a lot of research, like Thousands of people all over the world asking them, what did you learn about healthy emotion regulation growing up in your home? And what do you think the answer was?

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I didn't.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. And so what I did was I looked at everybody's research about emotion regulation from the neuroscience to early childhood development. And I started doing my own research on asking people things like, like, what do you wish you had learned about emotion regulation? What do you think would help you deal better with your feelings? And essentially that's my book is I just took what everybody asked me for, I did the science around it, or did or looked at other people's science and then put it all together and then made it really practical.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So just before we get into some of the practical, can you just define emotion regulation?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. At its simplest form, it's using our emotions wisely to achieve our goals. Notice that I didn't say it's about self control or about like denying our feelings or holding them back. My perspective on this is that we all have to learn how to use every emotion that we feel wisely so that we can have greater well being, build good relationships, make sound decisions, you know, and achieve our goals in life. Now of course, I'm a scientist, so that's not good enough. So we're going to get like detailed. And so the next level down is that emotion regulation is the thoughts. So how we think, what we think about and the actions, what we do. Do we take a deep breath, do we go for a walk, do we call a friend? So the thoughts and the actions that we do to prevent unwanted emotions. Oh, wow, that's cool. I can kind of anticipate that I'm going to be anxious when I go to talk to my boss. Or I can anticipate that as a parent, I'm going to go into that parent child meeting in the fall and be really nervous about talking about my kid. So I can actually regulate in advance. How magical would that be? I can reduce unwanted emotions. So I'm in the moment. Like, let's say you triggered me here and I'm like, mark, don't say it, don't do it. Reduce the feeling, Mark, it's okay. I can initiate a desired emotion. This is a big one for parents too. It's like, all right, we're going to have fun now. Let's think about what emotion we want to create to shift, you know, from the after school chaos to joy. I want to maintain emotions. I like this one a lot because I don't think we think about regulation as maintaining emotions. So that's more like, I always joke about this. I'm generally in a pretty good mood. I'm lucky that way. But I don't like when people kind of get in the way of that good mood. And I have friends and relatives who, they call me up and they'll say things like, what are you doing today? And I'd be like, in a coffee shop writing. And they're like, oh, so like you're in the coffee shop writing? I'm like, yeah. And what's, what's wrong with that? Oh, so you're, you get paid as a professor to sit in a coffee shop to write. And I'm like, I gotta go. Thank you very much. Like, I'm in flow right now. Thank you for that. You know, and then.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So is that a strategy?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It is. It's like, yeah, bye, bye. And then enhance emotions. And so how do you boost a feeling? And so I call, I call that prime, prevent, reduce, initiate, maintain or enhance. So just putting this all together, emotion regulation is the thoughts and the actions that we use to prevent unwanted emotions. Reduce the difficult ones, initiate the ones we want to feel, maintain the ones that we want to keep, enhance the ones that we want to have in the service of having good, well being, making decision, making good decisions, having good relationships and achieving our goals.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Which would you say this is like assuming that many of the people here are in the caregiving role. How important is this?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, I'll go as bold as saying it is the most important skill you can teach yourself and your kids. Because at the end of the day, as someone who's been a professor at a pretty high powered place where everybody has high test scores, everybody has grade point averages that were way higher than mine, everybody plays an instrument that I never heard of. Everyone has something in their cv, they've volunteered in some country I didn't even know was on the map. I mean, they're perfect on paper. Resume is like, wow, envy. And 80% of my students are struggling with anxiety, depression and other mental health challenges. So if our definition of success is like getting into Yale or Princeton or Harvard or whatever university is important to you, go for it. Don't teach these skills. But if you want your kid to be, for example, like thinking forward, if you're a parent of a young kid to be in a college where they're walking around out of their minds, you know, of envy and jealousy and fear and anxiety and frustration and worry and overwhelm like this all the time, like reading their books while they're walking to class because they're like, you know, then I think you need to think differently. And so my vision is that we make emotion regulation part of the curriculum.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Dr. Liza Pressman]

You know that I am in violent agreement with you, but until such a time as it is universally part of the curriculum, how can we make this part of our home curriculum and starting with ourselves some of these strategies? And then I want to talk about CO regulation and how we can support our kids.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It starts there. So I think the first step is that the adults who are raising kids need to have knowledge and skill period. I have like a few catchphrases, you know, we all have them in our books and in our lives. And psychologist, one of my favorites that maybe someone else said previously, but I never heard of it, it's you got to deactivate before you can co regulate. So I mean you can't co regulate when you're disregulated. It's by definition impossible. And so if we, the adults who are working with kids, whether teaching them or raising them, cannot deactivate our nervous systems to be present to listen, then there's nowhere to go and it just becomes chaos. So by definition the adult has to be in a regulated state in order to be supportive of their kids healthy development.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

First of all, what's the word for CO regulation when you're not regulated? Like when you're lending a frazzled nervous system to someone. I've always wondered why we don't have a word for that, but there might be one. I just don't know.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

There is one. I mean it's, it's you. It's like kind of a negative emotional contagion.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

But like, isn't there a more like a less lengthy description? Can we make up that word?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I mean, call it CO dysregulation.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Thinking about, oh my God, I was like, I knew we were talking today and then I could not have been a less regulated parent. Like, I was like, oh my God, I Can't believe what a hot mess I am right now. And this I was thinking, I like to, I like to find my mistakes and think about, well, if I have all this content knowledge and I'm making these terrible mistakes, which I know, like you had that moment with your mother in law. I feel like I, I want to stretch out the different versions of what could have happened with more, more access to tools, more knowledge, but like, more access. I think that's probably where I struggle the most. So I'm co dysregulating.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, you are.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

And then, I mean, it just, you.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Can think about it in terms of co regulation being something that's helpful when it's done with good strategies and co regulation being something that actually does harm. You know, it's like. And you know you can be co regulating by yelling and screaming.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Right.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

By definition, co regulation is helpful though.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Right? Right in the, the word regulation.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So if you find yourself lending this dysregulated state to your kids, how we, how do we walk it back in real time? I, I think we can repair. I obviously was like, I'll get on that soon. But I was watching that, like I did something that I have to believe other people do, which is I simply was irritated because I got a pissy response to something that I probably was not a big deal, but I decided this represents every disrespectful moment I've ever experienced and the future of, you know, the next year when I'm alone with this, my youngest, because we're both together and her sister's going off to college and all this stuff. And so I, I probably didn't like an answer to a question. And I spent 10 minutes like, lecturing with like a snarky yelling tone, sure. Knowing, like watching her just kind of look at me, feeling like I was a lunatic. And she wasn't even. It's not like she was fighting back, but I could tell that, you know, the more you spin out, the more this other human that's in the room with you is gonna feel it. And I was thinking, I cannot, I'm watching this, but I'm not bringing myself back. And so, like, what does Mark Brackett say right now? If you could like, talk to me.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

In that moment, I'd say, Elisa, you got like serious power and control issues. But, but putting that aside, I always.

[Podcast Announcer]

Say, don't you think I'm just really.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Upset that my older daughter's going off to college?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, you're projecting. I mean, it's, you know, you know, You've got to get a degree in psychology.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I gotta do something about it. And I need tools in that moment.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I think that there's. We're gonna jump to the end of my book because. And the reason why we're going to do that is I culminate. The book culminates in this idea of becoming the best version of yourself. You need a lot of tools to get there, but we'll go backwards this time. So years ago, my colleague Robin Stone and I were, we were perplexed. She's a therapist in New York City who was working with couples and, you know, they were struggling in their relationships. She has a lot of relationship therapy and she'd teach them a strategy and they'd use it once and then they come back to therapy the following week and say it doesn't work. You know, like we're still mean to each other, we're still saying hurtful things. I was running around New York City and other places teaching teachers and kids these things and the same thing was going to like, I don't want to do this. This doesn't work. This is too much effort. But each of us knew that if you actually did the work, it does work because the strategies are effective. My point of sharing that is that the why wasn't clear to people. The benefit, like, you're going to be happier, you're going to have a better relationship, you're going to sleep better at night if you practice this. I share that with you because we came up with a process of helping people to teach, helping people to learn emotion regulation. And we call it the meta moment. And the meta moment is this process of I. A, you gotta be aware of what's happening in your body and brain. B, you gotta go from automatic habitual punching in the face or saying something mean and hurtful like, so you sense that there's a shift in your brain and body, you recognize that that shift means something that is probably not going to be good for you or helpful for your relationship. And instead of going with what you know your activated self wants to say or do, you immediately pause and take a breath. Like you just got to do it. Like you can't even, don't even think about it. It doesn't matter how you feel, just stop what you're doing and pause and take the breath. Now of course, you know that's insufficient. And I know everybody's obsessed with breathing these days. You know, everybody breathes their way through everything. And I always joke with my mother in law, I would breathe and now it's even clear why I hate you.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

It's true, I'm very good at taking breaths, but I also know how to do that kind of breath that's like an angry breath. Like I'm doing work.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Right. And so you've got to pivot your brain. You've got to pivot your brain away from the stimulus that is driving you out of your mind, which is your daughter's snarky behavior, her facial expressions, whatever it is. And you got to go back to your values. That's hard. But you have to know your values first. And so you have to think about for the parents that are listening, who is the parent that I want to be? How do I want to be seen? How do I want to be talked about? How do I want to. How do I want to be experienced as a parent? And so I thought about that just using my mother in law to keep the example consistent, like, and relatable. Yeah, well, because we had a really rough time and I was really nasty. And then I went to bed and I'm like, but Mark, you're the director of the freaking center for Emotional Intelligence. You know, use your strategies. I'm like, those strategies. And so when I came back down that next morning, I was like, okay, how do I want to be experienced and seen by my mother in law? Well, I am the director of the center for Emotional Intelligence, so I should be like a model of healthy regulation. Yeah, that's true. You are. You're the feelings master. I want to be patient with her. I want to be compassionate because I was actually so narcissistic and selfish. You know, here we were, four months into her, she's 81, she's been like taken away from her own life. She didn't want to live with us. She lives in Panama with her dog and her parrot and her kitten that we were taking care of somehow another virtually. And I'm like, it's all about me. And she's disrupted my life. And I'm like, Mark, like, what about her life? I think she wants to be living with you and getting up in a different bed every, you know, in her bed. You know, she wants to be home. Oh, yeah, compassion. I want to be compassionate. I share that with everyone because I made. I had a new habit, which was every day because she always got up earlier than I did. And I would come downstairs and before I went down the stairs to the kitchen. Mark, remember, you were compassionate and you were patient. Remember that you set that goal and it would totally shift how I Approached her that morning. And I do the same thing, by the way, when I come home from work at night, before I open the door to my house, I would remind myself of my values and the self that I want to be. That's a prevention focused strategy. I can't tell you. I mean, I've taught this technique to, I'm going to say, hundreds of thousands of people at this point. And people are so creative with this. Like, I have this one mom I work with out in California, and I love this. She had to go from San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge to work. And she would say that every time she'd go back over the Golden Gate Bridge to go home, she used that like that, the Golden Gate, as a symbol to remind her to be the best possible mom.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Oh, that is really beautiful.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Pause. It was that moment of reflection saying, how do I want to be seen as a mom when I come home tonight? Even if she had the worst freaking day at work? How do I want my kid to experience me? I had a guy who's a teacher in New York City who takes the bus to work into Brooklyn, and he'd come into work every day, and you use a Statue of Liberty. You just stare at the Statue of Liberty and say, how do I want to be seen? How do I want to be talked about today? So you can use symbols, you can use language. For me, I'll just be frank, because I am in a role. Like, I run what's called the Yale center for Emotional Intelligence. And I feel like that person should be really good at this. So I have this alternative self that's called Mark, the director of the center for Emotional Intelligence. So when I'm triggered by somebody, I'm like, what would the director do? What would the director do?

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And it works. And by the way, this can be taught to children as young as 5 years old. Kids can do this. I'm serious. It works. The research shows it. So let me just go back to the Framework so people can digest it. You gotta stop. You gotta sense what you're feeling. Sometimes it doesn't even matter. Like, I know we're obsessed with labeling emotions, as am I. It's a big piece of it. Sometimes there's not enough time to figure that out. Just know it's not good. This is not going to be good. Then you pause, take that breath, and in that breath, best self, best self, best self. And, you know, it could be a ring on your finger to remind you. It could be a bracelet. It could be an image. And Then strategize through that lens. And so you choose your response as opposed to your automatic reaction through the lens of that idealized self. And it works really well.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

But I hadn't. I was thinking, oh, I will look at my engagement ring because I'm 51, but it's like, not that old and it's right there on my hand. And there is something a little bit easier to connect, something physical and visual for me with a thought and a breath. Like, that's just like that added just extra peace when you feel like this other stuff isn't working because I've always. The breath is my jam, but I have like, outsmarted my breath.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Of course, me too.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I've met at this point, the meditation and the breathing maybe over a certain number of years. Could somebody research if maybe you can worm your way? Like, I feel like I need a little bit more than that.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, I mean, that's a. The meditation piece, which I believe in and the research shows is helpful, but not for everybody. And it depends on what you're doing. You can become very narcissistic. You know, as a meditator, that's a.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Whole other fascinating conversation. And I totally agree with you. And I say this as a meditator and I'm. I have like a, you know, mindfulness teacher certification and I like, got really into it and I really like it. But I also think that, like everything it just taken to a certain extreme. You're just like, you actually should walk away from this because it's not serving you or the people around you.

[Podcast Announcer]

I want to take a break to tell you about responsibility.org's Ask, Listen and Learn underage drinking prevention programs because it's a leading resource for parents, educators, and kids in. In grades four through eight. And I think we often think about talking about this in grades 9 through 12, but actually informed kids make better decisions. And mental health matters, as, of course, we talk about constantly. New materials address how underage drinking and underage cannabis use affect tween mental health. And it really, really does. And it's important to know because age matters, because your developing brain is impacted more and more vulnerable to underage drinking and cannabis use. So how parents can work with their kids on identifying mental health struggles, letting them know that this really does actually make a difference. And it talks about ways to positively deal with stress and anxiety without turning towards substance use. Resources are digital, they're free, and they're available at asklistenlearn.org visit asklistenlearn.org mental health to view the materials today and start a conversation with your kids to further empower them to say yes to a healthy lifestyle and no to underage drinking and cannabis use. I want to tell you about Wayfair, which you know, I get a lot from Wayfair. But right now I want to tell you my new obsession is Mah Jong. And you can get mah Jong sets and Mah Jong tables at Wayfair. And let me tell you something, if you think that I am kidding, I am totally not. I'm so into Mah Jong and there are affordable, foldable, easy Mah Jong tables and Mah Jongg games.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So you know, sure, there's also beautiful.

[Podcast Announcer]

Home decor and everything under the sun at Wayfair. But right now my current obsession that Wayfair as satisfying is everything Mahjong. So I have now a full on mahjong setup with a Mah Jong table that I can fold up and put away and a Mah Jong set. If you know the game, then you know that they are very pretty sets and there are very specific pieces that you need and I'm so deep in. So I want to just spread the joy with everyone. There is something for every style in every home, including every game you might want to play, no matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it so easy to tackle your home goals and in this case tackle your home game night goals. Because I'm all about game night right now and I'm totally obsessed with free and easy delivery. Even on the big stuff like the game tables. You've got it at Wayfair. So shop outdoor furniture, grills, lawn games, board games, mahjong games for way, way less, but getting way, way more. Head to Wayfair.com right now to explore a huge selection of fun. That's W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So I have used my home alarm system because I live in LA and when I, you know, I came from New York City where but you're in apartment buildings most of the time, no alarm system. I feel like way safer in New York City, which I know is counterintuitive, but in la, when I'm like in the middle of all this nature, I'm like, oh, this is so dangerous. And I have a really serious alarm system. A lot of people know this about me. And so that the sort of thing that I had previously used that has not been serving me as much lately is like the sound of the beep of the alarm System when you're coming into the house to punch in the passcode so that it doesn't call the police is kind of what I use to think. In my mind. I can feel the little signs that things aren't going well, that it's not going to be good if I keep on this path. And so I have. My previous alarm code had been I'm just going to take three breaths in and out. But then over time it has weak. That that's not become stronger. That's actually a weaker image for me now. And I think I needed that next step of like, who, what, what can I use to bring me back to who I value and what I want to be as a mother.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Or a person or whatever. And I really, I think all of the steps that don't take more than a minute in total but make a massive difference are so impactful. But this just now picking a ring or picking the Statue of Liberty or something like, I think that the reminder to come back to who you are and who you want to be. Like the master of feelings or whatever. Yeah, whatever your gig is, is so. I don't know, it just seems like really doable.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It is doable and people love it. I mean, I got so many stories, you know, of kids who've learned this and then they're going home and say, mom, you need to take a meta moment, you know, which can be a trigger.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

But I, I'm sure. But it's cute.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It is cute. And you know, that's when something, you know, when the work you've done has been kind of digested. When, you know, the kids are teaching their parents.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Yeah. So what's a, what's an example that a five year old might do that you've seen to have a meta moment?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. Well, I'll give you a kindergarten in New York City where they wrote a song and I'm going to sing it for you, which might go a little off key. Meta moment, Metamoment Help me find my super me Meta moment, Meta moment Help me find my strategy.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Oh my God.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. And then they have their strategy wall. So when they're feeling upset, they think about my super me. And then they walk over to the strategy wall and they pick the strategy that they think will be the most helpful for them.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Okay, so what are some of those strategies? I love that it might be like on the wall, just concretely in case people want to make one.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It could be as simple as the taking the deep breath. It could be drawing, like just sitting around drawing it could be squeezing a little ball. It could be talking with a friend. It could be going get a sip of water at the water fountain. Little teeny things to help them either talk it out or process it. That's it. Emotion regulation doesn't have to be that complicated. When you're five, at 50, when you're running a center and you've got this happen, it's a little more complicated, but it's developmental. And you think about that. If we're building, you know, the neurons and the. You know, the patterns for young children to think about, okay? So when I'm not feeling. When I'm feeling uncomfortable, I can take a deep breath. I can ask for help. I can go by myself and just sit and reflect or draw. I can take a walk and get a sip of water. Whatever it is. That's pretty powerful. And then as they get older, you start saying, well, when you're feeling angry, what might you need? Versus when you're feeling sad, what might you need? And they start realizing, oh, when I'm angry, like, I had this one girl, she told me she was, like, in fourth or fifth grade. She's like, when I get really angry and I like music, and so I just go to my. She has a piano. I just play the piano, and I just play the anger out. I'm like, okay, thank you for teaching me how to regulate my feelings.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Amazing.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I had this one other kid share with me. You know, when I'm upset with someone in school, what I do is I write them a letter about why I'm upset by myself. I just write it out, and then I read it, and then I decide, do I want to send this or have I figured it out? And if I. If I feel the need to share it, I'll share it. If I feel like it's done, I rip it up and throw it away. I mean, how many of us wish our partners did that?

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Oh, my God, I. I really love that, too. Those are all really great tools. And also, you have permission to feel all those feelings.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

You're not taking that away. You're just sort of disarming it a bit.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It depends, right? This is. The whole thing about emotion regulation, is that there's misconceptions that. It's like, when I'm anxious, you know, I have to go for therapy. You know, for those of you who are listening to me, I've had anxiety for 55 years. And yes, I've had therapy, but not for the last 20 years. And the truth is, I have A re. I have reimagined what anxiety means for me, and all of a sudden it's like, oh, Marcus, that's interesting. So all the things you worry about, like fundraising for your center or whether people are going to like your book or not, you're anxious about things that you're passionate about and that you really care about. So why would that be a bad thing? Like, why do I need to even regulate it? Just observe it and then maybe think about, okay, well, if I'm really worried about people, like in my book, then use that worry to make. To write a really interesting book. Like, take your work seriously and, like, make it creative and think critically about it as opposed to, oh, my God, I can't write because, you know, I'm afraid if people are going to like it or not. Like, that's a choice to go to the dysregulated, kind of rumination, you know, place, and it's a choice to say, oh, okay, so this means that I should really do a great job. I think that is a huge awakening for a lot of people.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

This choice.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, this.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

This reframing.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And we've been taught every one of these strategies has been learned. I learned to be dysregulated when I felt anxious from my mother. I mean, sorry, Mom. My. My mother has passed away for 30 years now, and she was a good lady, but my mother had a breakdown over everything. Everything. Oh, my God. You're being bullied. Don't tell me the details. I can't handle it. I'm like, you can't handle it? I'm the one being bullied. Like, I don't understand the problem. I'm going to. You know, and she would just get so flustered and so overwhelmed. She would just go to her room. I'm like, okay, so now, like, I've been bullied. I'm trying to get help. And now you're locking yourself in your room because you can't handle it.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Right?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I laugh now. I cried then. Yeah.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Wait, by the way. But anyway, how do you like that? That's all I just needed to say.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

That was your empathy.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I could just. You. So you could see that. And it's just heartbreaking. That was what she could do. That's what she. She could do. So we're hoping to break that.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And so I wanted to say something. I haven't. This is another thing that I think you'll relate to because of your work is that we talk about emotions, especially negative emotions, as we talk about emotions. Approach, avoid right we want to approach pleasant emotions and avoid negative emotions. My theory about this is that parent child is always approach, never avoid.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I mean, there will be a giant Instagram post and bumper sticker with that. I love that.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Always approach, always approach. Of course, it's a signal that a need is not being met. It's a signal that something is wrong in that child's environment and they need co regulation. You have to just figure, you have to figure out your way into the co regulation, which is where the adult development piece comes in.

[Podcast Announcer]

And now for a quick break. We are all back to school and we know the chaos too well. The schedules, the carpools, the relearning everything because you've forgotten everything for the summer, getting back into the routine of things. And Ollie is making wellness an easy and delightful part of your routine. So if, for example, you want to try the multi kids plus probiotic, there's a delicious Ollie gummy to set that morning wellness routine. If you need, like I do a nice bedtime gummy. I really cannot stress enough how good the magnesium is for women's support. There's also women's just general multivitamin. I happen to love Ollie also because I like, I like the gummy. I do. It's so good. It's just like a quick, easy way to get the vitamins down. And also there are just certain vitamins that I now know I need. Like definitely low on vitamin D, B12, calcium. There are things that are in the women's multivitamin that where I know I'm not getting enough of it. So I take great comfort in having these vitamins and I just don't like swallowing vitamin pills. So Ollie it is. Choose the number one gummy supplement brand this school year. Your kids are going to like it. So [e-mail] or retailers nationwide. O L L Y.com Remember, these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Quince is so awesome. Fall is in full swing. So I am getting ready for sweater shopping. Light sweaters for me in California and really cozy warm sweaters for my daughter who's off to the east coast for college. I'm very into their sweaters. I get all cashmere at Quint and you cannot believe the savings. It's bananas. Like they have every essential for fall, like 100% Mongolian cashmere for $50. And they have wool coats and just everything you could possibly need for this new weather transition. So chic. You cannot Believe the prices. I get so much from Quince, it's actually ridiculous. It's really become a one stop clothing shop for me. So keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com/humans for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com humans to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/humans. Check it out. I'm not kidding. You cannot believe the quality. From my matching beautiful pajama sets to beautiful cashmere to coats to everything. You cannot believe these prices and quality. Seriously. Quince.com humans okay. Great wolf Lodge has an adventure for the whole family. And basically it's a giant indoor water park with so much to do, it's. It's exhausting even thinking about, but so much fun. Basically you've got an indoor water park with always 84 degree water, a massive wave pool, a lazy river, so many water slides for your pack to enjoy. And if you're just like, okay, I've had enough of that. I need to do something else. There's an entire play adventure with attractions like live action games and adventures you can do running around the whole lodge. A northern lights arcade. I mean there's tons of great dining options, complimentary daily activities. They have things like nightly dance parties and everything. I mean everything from what you put in your mouth to what you do with yourself all day to where you put your head on the pillow is under one giant roof. And there are 23 lodges across the country. So you are always only a short drive away from an adventure. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you and book your stay today atgreatwolf lodge.com. that's G R E A T W O L F.com and strengthen the pack, guys.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Okay, so circling back so that you can get to sort of the, the end of the book. Then back to the middle using the horribly unflattering tale of my behavior last night. If I had started to do the 10 minute. I don't think it was 10 minutes, but my daughter claims it was. I'm gonna, I'm gonna approach that with trust and not think that she was exaggerating. And I probably, I probably was going, you know, spinning out.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So let's say it was 10 whole minutes. I was well aware that it was happening at minute zero past the breath to the looking at the ring or the, or the image of the Golden Gate Bridge to remembering how do I Want my daughter to go to sleep tonight thinking about the support that she has for me, how do I want to parent her?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

What do I want the outcome of this moment to be?

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Or okay, so actually, you read my mind. Because I could get to what's my big picture?

[Podcast Announcer]

Hope and dream.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

And I could probably calm myself down from that. But there's that other thing that you just mentioned, which is ultimately there was something that in its original form, I was very right to request, but I've now lost that because I decided to undermine myself by spinning out. So how do we get there? Which is what do I. What's my goal? To go back to your definition of.

[Podcast Announcer]

Emotion regulation in this case.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

What. What's my short term goal here? What's my big picture? I get. But in the short term, like, how do you reconcile those short term goals and long term goals?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, the short term goal is going back to that. Prevent, reduce, initiate, maintain, or enhance. So like, my short term goal is reduce the irritation. So that, you know, might be taking a deep breath, you know, it might be taking a step back. It might be like, honey, mommy's going to the bathroom for a few minutes, you know, whatever it is to kind of either remove yourself from the stimulus or remove yourself from the stimulus, you know, in your brain. That's the short term. You do need to then, you know, figure out, like, what do I say or do? Because you're in a relationship now. Remember, not all regulation is the same. Like the other day I was traveling. I travel a lot for work, doing these speeches and I loved giving speeches. I hate traveling to do the speeches. And so. And then there's flight cancellations. And anyway, just like you're in the airport and you're out of your mind, you know, like, then the flight gets delayed and you get canceled and you're just sort of like, I just spent 12 hours in Denver and I'm ready to lose it in that moment. Like, I can't call my mother because she's no longer here. There's nobody around that I know. I'm like, mark, this is an opportunity to actually get work done. Open your computer and start doing those emails that you didn't want to do. So regulate by channeling your energy into something productive because you're not going anywhere. Radical acceptance. Channel the energy into something productive. That's an example, like, you know, in the real world, in a relationship thing like you're talking about, you have to decide, like, does this need to be resolved right now? Or can I just be like, honey, Like, I'm not in the right place to talk about this, you know, let's talk about it at breakfast tomorrow. I love you, but right now I don't like you, so I'm out of here and that's it. And you then go and you have your cup of coffee or your 3dr. Glasses of wine, whatever you need, and you start thinking about it through the lens of your, like. So I'm committed to my values of being, you know, this mom, what's. What what's really. Like, I can't process why I was feeling the way, you know, like, it's hard in the moment. You don't really know what the trigger meant to you, and it's hard. So what did she say? What did she do that really got into my skin? Oh, she violated, you know, an agreement we had about this or whatever it is. Okay, so I'm really upset about that. So the conversation has to be when we're both in a calm state over breakfast. Something like, you know, the reason why I really got upset was because X, Y, Z. Remember, we agreed three weeks ago about this. And so can we talk about that about, like, what motivated you? And. But you're doing that not in the emotion state. So sometimes you can do it. Like if you're really, like, masterful at this. The space, the way I. I use the Viktor Frankl quote that I just live by. We all live by that right? Between stimulus and response, there is space. In that space lies our power to choose our response, and our response lies our growth and freedom. So in the beginning, it's a mad moment. And sometimes they're mega moments. You know, it's like, you know, and then that fuse or that space between stimulus and response gets shorter and shorter the more skillful you get. And so it's a work. Your work's in progress. And some emotions are more difficult than others, and so you need more space. Sometimes you need less space. But ultimately it's our choice in terms of how we fill that space.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Okay, so with all of that in mind.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yes. And going back to your work, that reflection piece, you can't reflect in the moment. You know, like, there's no reflection, there's elimination. Right. Like, I'm not reflecting right now. I'm retaliating. It's just like your brain is not able to reflect. So the only way to build the space is to take the breath or remove yourself or pinch yourself or say something to yourself. Like, don't do it, Mark. Don't say it. Have a go to phrase so, for example, I have, over the years, accumulated some go to phrases that really work for me. The one that really works for me when I'm really in a dark place is Mark. You know, this feeling is impermanent. Like, you know that right now it is bad, and you're immeasurable. And you hate everybody. You hate what you do. You hate every participant in this workshop. But Mark, that is really temporary because you actually love what you do. So today's the rainy day. Tomorrow's going to be the sunny day. And I just remember that. And like, I was coaching a kid recently who was really going through some rough times with drugs and relationships and, you know, school was really hard, and he was just so much in the rainy day. Now, I knew this kid because he is a relative of mine, and I care about him a lot. And I just started asking him questions like, because the only thing, when you're in that rainy day period, the only thing you can think about is other rainy days. I needed to figure out how to pull them out through my coaching and through my compassion to remember some of the sunny days. And I'm like, do you remember when we went away as a family? Do you remember that? Do you remember that? Can we talk about that for a minute? Because I remember the smile on your face was infectious. And. And we would talk about that, and then he would snag, go back to the rainy. But by the end, we had remembered like, 15 or 20 instances in the last year where there were sunny days. And so I just wanted him to leave knowing that, yes, it's a rainy day, but emotions are temporary. They are impermanent. Just like the tide of the ocean, it always comes in and always goes out. And so let's apply that to you right now, because I need you to see those sunny days because they'll come back. And right now it's just not that sunny. And that's okay, too.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

And what about when they're thinking, I know it's sunny today, just by the way. That was beautiful. Like, not to just throw that word away.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

That's why I love talking with you. It's so natural.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Okay, so this. The sun is out. Okay, but you're thinking about how it's going to rain tomorrow and the next day and it's going to rain.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

We don't think about it. That. That's the thing. When it's sunny out, we don't think about it.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

You're right. Okay, so maybe it's.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I mean, some people do. If you're neurotic you know?

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Yes, thank you. I was about to say, I was gonna, I was gonna say, I think.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

There are some there, I mean, my grandfather. Now you're crying later.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I was gonna, I mean, that is like an entire cultural ethos. But, like, this type of thinking is right. Like, I, I, I see the sunny day. Like, I can get, I can get to. I'm more comfortable almost in the rain because I know there's going to be sunny days. But what about when it's a sunny day?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Enjoy it. I'm talking relish in it. It's good for you. We do not spend enough time learning strategies to preserve pleasant feelings. And it's an important thing to learn. As a matter of fact, I was teaching at a school recently as I was writing my book, actually about a year ago, I wanted to see how kids would react, react to this. And so I was teaching students about the feeling of elation. Not joy, not excitement, but elation. And I had them define the difference between joy, excitement, and elation. Which, by the way, you know, the adults who were in the room, they're like, I don't know, what's the difference? And the kids, you know, we came up with our definition, which is that we feel elated when we feel joy and accomplishment and pride. It's that sense of after you've, like, you won the award or after something really great happens, like, you're beaming, but your joy is because of an accomplishment or something.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Okay, I like that.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Which is different than anticipatory excitement or, you know, just joy. So I asked them to get into their groups into what are scenarios where you would feel elated and how do people generally respond when you feel that way? People would give great examples, like, you know, you were, you know, you got an A on a test, or you felt great about your writing assignment, or, you know, you're in sports and you win the game. And I said, what's the typical response? Somebody says, great job, congratulations. And it says, I don't. That's like, that's kind of empty. I'd like you to go back into your groups and think about a good friend who had something fabulous happen to them. And your job is to help them preserve that feeling of elation. What would that look like? What would that sound like? I'm going to tell you, these kids were so freaking creative. You know, they just embellished it. They tell me more about that feeling you had when you kicked that ball into the goal. Like, tell me what was going on your mind. And you know, what was the feeling in your brain and body after you realized that you won the game. Like, they were just asking really good questions to get people to, like, relive their experiences and feel that sense of elation. So I share that with you because it was really just amazing what the kids came up with. And it's a form of positive empathy. It's a form of embellishing the pleasant, as opposed to only saying, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry for your loss. Now, because I'm the guest in this school where I'm doing research, there's always a letter that goes home to parents. Like, Dr. Brackett is going to be in the classroom today. And I've been working with this one school for a decade now, so they're used to me. So I went to the kids and I said, your parents might ask you, like, what did you learn from Dr. Brackett today? And I stole the punchline because this one girl raised her hand. She was like, I'm going to tell my mom that I learned another form of empathy. Literally, that's what she said to him. Like, say more. She's like. Because we're always used to telling someone, like, when something like, if their dog dies, we give them a hug or we tell them how much we're there for them if they need a hug or whatever. But we don't really think about empathy as helping someone to continue to feel a pleasant feeling. And that's the same is another form of empathy. I could not wait for those kids to go home to teach their parents, you know, how to preserve a pleasant feeling, because that was your homework assignment, was they had to go teach their parent that strategy.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I'm so into how, like, capturing this moment for you because I love you and I want. I want this for you. And I also know that it's hard for you to keep holding hold of.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

So how can we both enjoy it and also not turn it into looking for the gloomy days to come.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly. And importantly, Eliza, it's not like the toxic positivity stuff, you know, Again, you read my mind. It's genuine interest in helping someone feel a pleasant emotion that's based on something that happened, not some. You know, it's going to be fantasy. Yeah.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Big difference. And I wanted to share something very important about this. So in research, people, when they're like, our age, reflect on their childhoods and the people that influence their lives. And the question is, who do you feel? Who do you have the fondest memories of in your childhood? The people who engaged in traditional empathy are the people who engage in positive empathy. Guess what?

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

Wow.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It's the positive empathy people. And when I. I. When I think about, like, I. Because, you know, you know, my childhood, it was filled with neuroses and abuse and bullying. I didn't have a. A very positive childhood. But the moments, you know, that one. My aunt Netta, you know, who just made me feel like I was special in a certain way. Like, I can feel my aunt. When my aunt just touched me and she just said something that was kind and compassionate to me. It's like that's my memory of the person who, you know, really I connected with. Not, you know, when my dog. I don't remember I had dogs. I had pets. They died. People were, you know, upset. I'm sorry. You know, people cared about that. That's not what impacted my development as much as those people who, you know, reminded me, you know, of something that I did that was meaningful, you know, in life.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

All I want to do now is find a way to be that person for my children and everyone around me. You, including you. That was incredible. And I cannot wait for people to read Dealing with Feeling because this is. This is what you're doing in the world.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

One feeling, one kid, one parent, one teacher, one CEO at a time.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I mean, adding up to quite a few.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. I mean, I feel very proud. We're now in 5,000 schools, reaching about 7 million kids. But that's the beginning, you know, this is. You know, I think there's, like, 100,000 schools in the United States, so 5% is not good enough for me. I want 75%.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

95. Oh, look at my mom. I'm aiming higher.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Good.

[Dr. Liza Pressman]

I am going to have you back to have many more conversations because I adore talking to you. And I'm so excited for everyone to read this book. And I'm excited for you to feel the feeling of everybody reading this book. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.