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Raising Good Humans
Igniting Your Inner Spark: Finding Purpose and Community with Activist Shannon Watts
00:49:04
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- [00:01]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
- [00:10]
Shannon Watts
Welcome to Raising good humans. I'm Dr. Eliza Pressman and today I'm talking with the most wonderful activist and firestarter, Shannon Watts, whose new book, Fired up how to Turn youn Spark Bark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age. Shannon Watts, for those of you who don't know, is the founder of Moms Demand Action, the nation's largest grassroots group fighting against gun violence. She's been on the podcast before talking about gun safety, but now she's moving on to a whole other topic, which is this incredible conversation about women and mothers and how we can discover our core values, how we can lead sort of fire starting lives, but not like we have to go change the world or do something wild and enormous. This is about small, consistent actions that can lead to big transformations. Personally, professionally, interpersonally. It's not like this conversation is about everybody needs to light the world on fire. It's just about staying connected to our own little fires and also how to stay connected with each other, how to, to feel a sense of belonging. And what I love about this conversation is that yes, there are big ideas in here, but actually she has really practical wisdom and tools to figure out. Are we living the life that we can look back on and say, this is what I meant to do. Can you give us the story of you first kind of becoming this pioneering activist and now living just like purpose and inspiring ways for women?
- [01:52]
Well, thank you. You know, I get asked that question a lot and I just want to be clear. I'm not a unicorn, right? Like I am not this extraordinary human. It was a lot of trial and error, you know, to figure out what it is that, that I found fulfilling. And you know, if I go back to my childhood and I just kind of think about the influences there. I was raised in Rochester, New York, where we were taught activists were heroes. We would go to the house of Susan B. Anthony and where Harriet Tubman spoke and Frederick Douglass. And so that was instilled in me early on. And as I got older, I had this idea, okay, I'm going to be an investigative journalist. I'm going to be socially active. And what happened was I ended up getting married right out of college in the middle of my parents marriage imploding. I was an only child and I think I was looking for some structure. And I ended up having three kids by the time I was 30. And instead of being an investigative journalist, I was in public relations. And I didn't sort of stop to question anything because I was just, like, on this freeway going down at 80 miles an hour. And I found myself one year in my mid-30s, just covered in eczema from head to toe. And I know eczema doesn't sound like a horrible illness, but when it covers every square inch of your body, it makes it very difficult to sleep and to focus on work and to, you know, be a parent. And I couldn't cure it. I couldn't find any doctor who could help me with this. And so I went to the ER one day, and I had this lovely doctor, and he looked me in the eyes and he said, you know, how much stress are you under? And I said something flippant, and he just, like, locked eyes with me and would not let me off the hook. And I described this in the book. You know, I had sort of a mini breakdown because I just realized I was at this crossroads in my life. I could keep living this life on autopilot that didn't really serve me, or I could try something different. And I ended up. And I talk about in the book how I turned to journaling because I couldn't afford a therapist. I couldn't confide in my husband because a big part of the problem was my marriage. And the more I journaled, the more it just became apparent that I needed to live differently. And I ended up ending my marriage. I left my career. And for, you know, five or so years, I just tried a whole bunch of things that I failed at. I opened a small business. I became a consultant. I even tried to become a yoga teacher. And if, you know anything about me, you know, I would make a horrible yoga teacher. And it was really just trying and practicing this over and over again until I figured it out. And that was really the genesis of how I was able to start Mom's Domain action. I was 41 years old. I was. I can still see myself, you know, folding laundry in my bedroom on a very cold day in. In Indiana. And I saw breaking news that there was an active shooter in Newtown, Connecticut. And like I'm sure you and so many other listeners, I just sort of stopped what I was doing and spent the rest of the day sobbing at what had happened. Just sort of unfathomable. And I was devastated. And somewhere in the middle of the night, that devastation turned into abject rage. I was so angry when I woke up. I had to do something. And so that is when I figured out this formula for what I call living on fire. And living on fire is really a metaphor for how do you figure out two things. What's limiting you and what's calling you. And when you figure out what your abilities are, your values, your desires, it's kind of like alchemy, right? It feels like magic. You're finally coming alive. And for me, that was my, my skills, which having worked for years and years in corporate communications, I knew how to build a brand, I knew how to tell a story. My values were keeping my family and my community safe. And my desire, this dormant desire I had really to tell stories and to be socially active. All of those things came together for me when I started Mom's Demand Action. And so many other women brought their own formula and their own abilities and values and desires and, and together we created the nation's largest women led nonprofit that has had incredible success for, for over a decade now.
- [06:09]
It's so incredible. And okay, so you mentioned something about core values. Today I want to talk about how you find those core values and what if you're struggling to figure out who you are in this kind of era where we have so much more of a sense of what we can do, but a lot of people are struggling, feeling like they don't have community, feeling like they don't know where to start, feeling like there's no time for it. And I think you've kind of spoken with enough people, done enough research, really lived this to be able to help guide us. And core values seems like one of the most important starting points.
- [06:47]
Yes. You know, just, just to go back a little bit, what I have discovered. And so when I decided to write this book, it was an invitation from Maria Shriver, who has a book in print. And I said, what do you want me to write about? And she said, what have you learned about women? I was like, that is a, that could be a very big book. And I wanted to narrow it down because what I have learned about working with so many women, not just in, in Mom's domain Action, but also in my career, is that they have such amazing ideas and so much pent up desire to act on them and also a lot of fears about doing that. Right. And I wanted to talk about why that is and how you get past that. And so what it is clear to me, I interviewed over 70 women for the book, as you said, you know, a lot of academics and researchers and in, in many ways in society, men are taught to follow their desires and women are taught to fulfill their obligations. And it's very easy to start to begin to believe that those obligations are your desires. Right. And I talk about this in the book, they're sort of like false desires, whether it's happiness or busyness or purpose. Because you know, this idea that we are born to do one thing and we spend the rest our whole lives looking for it, like that's sort of a dead end. It's really about fulfillment.
- [08:12]
And it's so daunting.
- [08:14]
It's so daunting. I mean I don't. What if you die and you don't figure that out?
- [08:18]
Yeah.
- [08:19]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
And now for a quick break.
- [08:21]
Shannon Watts
I have to tell you about Resort.
- [08:22]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
Pass and I'm particularly excited about it because I just came off of an actual vacation which is. Is so unusual and boy did it feel good. But it just reminded me of how important it is to just get away. But that is not the reality of most parents. So Resort Pass has a very cool opportunity. They've partnered with 2,000, even more than 2,000 luxury hotels. So there's just a dreamy spot, pretty much anywhere you could possibly be. There's no membership, there's no hassle, there's. And they have these day passes so you don't need to take an entire vacation. You just get a day pass starting at $25. And in under five minutes you can turn an ordinary day into something unforgettably rejuvenating. Visit resortpass.com humans and use the code humans at checkout for $20 off your first purchase. That's R E S O R T p a s s.com resortpass.com humans and use the code humans for $20 off your first order. You have no idea how much you need this. You've just gotta go and get a day to just have time for yourself.
- [09:48]
Shannon Watts
You deserve it.
- [09:49]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
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- [11:24]
Shannon Watts
Hearing this from young people a lot. Like, oh, interesting. There's something wrong with them because they haven't figured out who they want to be, who they are, what their purpose is. And I'm really worried about it because you're young and there's just a wild unfolding that gets to occur. So I want to keep hearing more about what you're saying. And then I think we need to also translate it, not just to get it in our bodies and in our systems, but also because I think we're doing a disservice. And I say this in the most tender, gentle way that I can, but I think it's. It's happened that now our kids are having that expectation. It's so good big.
- [12:03]
It's almost like self care that that purpose has been commodified.
- [12:07]
Yeah.
- [12:08]
And it's become this societal idea of what we should all achieve. And God forbid, you know, we don't have a purpose or we don't know what our purpose is. And I quote Elizabeth Gilbert in the book. She has this whole, it's actually pretty funny riff about, you know, you have to find your purpose and then you have to make money from your purpose, and then you have to make sure other people make money from your purpose, and you have to do that purpose till you die. Like, it. It becomes like a job, your purpose. And I think if we think of. And this is, you know, fire again, is the metaphor for this book. If we think about setting a lot of different small and large fires in our life and think of that as fulfillment, then we don't get so stuck on this one idea. And the other thing that comes up for me, Eliza, when we're talking about purpose is power. Right. And we're seeing this in many, you know, everything from congress to corporate CEOs in our society, which is there's this idea that once you have power, you hold onto it forever and you never let it go and you never share it with anyone. And, you know, maybe you die holding onto that power. And I would love to see a different paradigm, which is, power is finite. We begin to plan for handing it over. Like this fire that we build is. Is temporary until we get to whatever the next one is. So I think as you said, purpose is incredibly daunting. And if we start to look at life with one main question at the forefront of our minds, which is what do I want? And we don't not do that because we're weak. We do it because we're wise. The system is set up to put obstacles in our way all the time. If we truly lived according to the question of what do I want? Systems would fail, institutions would crumble, governments would cease to exist overnight. Right. Like if we were allowed to just ask ourselves that question. And so we, we smartly sort of follow our obligations and, and maybe even look for happiness and busyness of purpose. What I'm describing in the book is, is a practice where you apply this formula over and over again and you sort of start to live from the inside out instead of the outside in. Which is what I was able to do when I started Moms to man action. And it's a practice I have in my life now and I've seen so many other women do. And when, you know, bringing it back to core values, there's, if you Google like what are personal values? There's a list of hundreds of them. I think Brene Brown has a whole book dedicated to like what are values? And so it's just important to constantly remind yourself of what your values are. Like when is the last time you thought about what are my values? Because they change throughout your life. My values right now it's a 54 year old woman are very different as a 24 year old woman or 34 or 44 and hopefully they'll be different at 64 and 74. So I do think some of this and even though it sounds a little mundane, it's like if you make something a practice, you're, you're keeping it top of mind and you're, you're writing it down and you're thinking about it. You're really leaning into who am I? What are my values? And, and, and that's the North Star. That should guide me.
- [15:13]
Okay, so how are we? Because I think about this like I did as I recommend, but also I don't do much of the things I recommend. But, but you know, writing a family mission statement and knowing your family value statement and what I think is most hilarious about it is like of course it changes because we had like a family motto in, you know, my kids were really little. That I realized was absolutely disastrous after a few years because it was like the pressman's are persistent and that couple of other things. But because persistent came first because that's what we came up with. It was like, no, you got to know when to fold them down here. And so of course we changed things. But it can feel like if you don't know what your core values are, like what really feels good. So I think what I started with was what I thought, like it was a pretend list. Because sometimes you need to just do it. Like you need to write something down or you need to decide a few values that like resonate with you and then over time you see what is going wrong with them or maybe what doesn't work or what doesn't fit. But I had really, I had a really hard time in different iterations of my life figuring out what the core values were because there are so many that I care about and so narrowing it down to just be able to say what really matters to me and what do I really want as, you know, as I'm raising my kids and how is that aligned with what they might want for their lives? It feels like we have to have permission to kind of investigate and figure this out and have it be dynamic and change. But what are some concrete ways to do it?
- [17:12]
Yes. And I think a big part of it is taking time to think about it. Right. I mean, it's one thing to say I want to know what my values are, it's another thing to fully explore it. And constantly keeping that at top of mind. And journaling, I think is actually a really effective way. Sometimes people think of journaling as woo woo. I know I did, but it was when I was out of the emergency room. And as I said, you know, journaling for me was an important way to get from. I can't confide in my husband because I'm not happy in my marriage. I can't afford a therapist. I'm going to just start to write my way out of this. And so reminding yourself of what your values are currently in your life, but not just your values, I think you should take inventory and audit also your abilities. If there is something that you desire, if there is something you want, you may have to prioritize different values and you may have to go take on classes or, you know, figure out ways to acquire those abilities that you want that will get you to the next step. Or I think also a lot of times women forget the abilities that they have, right. That, you know, if you are raising a family, you have a lot of executive functioning and skills that other people might not have. And so making sure you're giving yourself full credit for what your values are, what your abilities are, but also that question of what do I want? I think that is an incredibly important question. You know, you were one of the people that I interviewed in my book, and I don't remember if you agreed with this, but almost all of the women that I interviewed who had children, when I asked them their deathbed regret worry, what would their death bed regret be? Do you think you know what it was?
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Oh my God, I don't know. But I definitely would like to know.
- [19:00]
That they would be a bad mother if they pursued what they wanted because it would be at the expense of time spent with their children.
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Like I, I imagine it had something to do with my motherhood, that's for sure.
- [19:13]
Yes.
- [19:14]
I don't know if it was quite that, only because I probably give myself.
- [19:19]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
Way more wiggle room than other people do.
- [19:22]
Shannon Watts
You gave such good advice because I asked you, you know, what should women mothers be thinking about as they do decide to pursue what they want no matter what the stages of their life? Right. Whether it's they have little kids or they're empty nesters. And you said it's so incredibly important for mothers to have other things going on in their lives for two reasons, and my kids would agree with this. One is you're not being a helicopter parent. Like your kids don't think they are the center of everything and therefore feel a lot of pressure. Right. And the other thing is that you're setting an example for how you want them to live when they're older. And so, you know, figuring out what makes you come alive is not selfish. No, it is in many ways selfless.
- [20:09]
And I think that's the only way in sometimes for mothers is like one of the most, I guess it's not sad. Like maybe it's not. Maybe it just is this beautiful thing. But if I say to you if you wear a red sweater, that will really help you feel more calm during the day. Now I'm using that example because it's ridiculous so that nobody takes this too literally. So you would probably ignore that. But if I said if you wear a red sweater, your kids are going to benefit, you'll fucking grab that red sweater and put it on. And so I think the way into mothers going to this place that you're talking about is to know deep in their core that that is way better for their kids because that seems to be a very motivating factor. Even though I wish, I wish you could just say to women, do this for You. But it's harder.
- [21:06]
I mean, I even talked to women who had become lawmakers who said that. Right. It's. It's. It's women from all walks of life who. Who have this worry. And I just think, you know, we should. This kind of comes back full circle to what we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation, which is we should see our life as chapters. You know, if you look at women who are living on fire, they're all different archetypes. You may be just out of college and trying to unburden yourself from purpose, right? You may be a young mom with kids, and you feel overwhelmed. You may be someone who's preparing to be an empty nest, or you may be, you know, a postmenopausal woman. I think about the women I interviewed for this book who were still figuring it out in all chapters of our lives when, you know, my mother wasn't given that kind of permission by society, you know, once she turned 40, is to figure that out. Sort of like, okay, you. You've gone through menopause, you disappear now. Right? And yet we have whole halves of our lives to live. I interview one woman who went back to law school after she was rejected 18 times when she graduated the first time from college and at 40 years old, got her law degree and became the first black president of her law school. And now her whole thing is getting other women of color to go to law school. I spoke with a woman in her 70s who became a published author for the first time after 219 rejections from publishing firms. The stories of these women who were doing amazing things at all stages of their lives, I think are so inspiring and really encourage us. Like, it's just important to see those examples of other women who have done it. I talked to the poet and author Sandra Cisneros, who is in her 70s, and she says, I still don't feel like I've written the best poem of my life. I still believe, you know, that's out there somewhere. And so I really don't want any person or woman to get to the end of their life and feel like they didn't birth.
- [23:02]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
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- [24:59]
Shannon Watts
That'S what I've had.
- [25:01]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
But I was totally wrong. Everything they do is baked fresh, daily, super clean, minimal ingredients. But it is low in carbs, high in fiber, high in protein. At a certain point in life you need lots of fiber and lots of protein. So some of the products have like two net carbs, but they're bread products. It's awesome. And they aren't made of junk and they don't taste like cardboard. Come on. Royal Bread is good for you. So you actually can forget they're healthy because they taste good, but they're really good for you. And I've got you 20 off. So go eat it. Eatroyo.com use my promo code humans for 20 off. That's promo code humans@eatroyo.com e a t r o y-o.com have a bagel, slather on some cream cheese, get protein, get fiber, and don't get a lot of unnecessary carbs and ingredients.
- [26:09]
Shannon Watts
What is it that you saw as sort of like a theme? Because what you're describing feels so hopeful. Like almost like if we let go of hope for change, for potential, that's when we really lose the capacity to start these fires. Like if there is something, just everything that you're describing Was like, I'm not finished.
- [26:33]
Yes.
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I don't know, like, all of. I mean, certainly there are physical things that I am not thrilled about, but in terms of. I feel like that I was injected with a little something that was like, oh, let's keep going. This is just like a totally new chapter. And I don't think that that was given to our mothers for sure. I think it probably wasn't even given to people 10 years ago. Like, I think I came into it right at the time that it was like, in. In the conversation. But there's something very much like, instead of the feeling of this is the end of. Or the beginning of the sort of unwinding of life, it feels so much more like this is a new. Like a transition to a totally different part of life. Like, one I'm not saying is better than the other or worse than the other, but I had a thought that kids go off to college, menopause. It's all just downhill and depressing. And every woman I meet, one after the other, I'm like, this person is so incredible, and things are so exciting right now with. Again, without the pressure of it needing to be the biggest thing in the world or the purpose of the century. I do think there is something. I just feel like people should know. There's. There is quite a bit of light there.
- [27:56]
That's so true. And I think what is so exciting. I'm in Gen X. I think you might be, too. We're Gen Xers, right? And so we're very lucky to have been part of what feels like a whisper campaign among so many women about menopause and the treatment that's available to us that wasn't to our mothers and that we don't have to suffer and that we have so many years ahead of us of full lives. I think what we're seeing, you know, through amazing podcasts and storytelling is the what, like, what are women doing? I wanted to get to the how. How are women doing it?
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Dr. Eliza Pressman
Yeah.
- [28:32]
Shannon Watts
And, you know, if I had gone back, I would have wanted someone to tell me, you are going to endure incredible blowback, and everyone will experience that if they live audaciously. It may not be like I had. Right. It might not be threats of death and sexual assault from gun extremists, but you are going to have people who disapprove of living differently and living audaciously. And so being prepared to handle that blowback and to get through it, I think is incredibly important. And the other piece of it that I really think that people need to know and to remember is that there is so much community to tap into, and it is so important to find your people, and those are the people that will help you figure out whatever it is you want to do. You know, we. We would interview our mom's To Man Action volunteers and say, okay, you come into the organization, but why do you stay? And they said two important things that I can be think anyone can apply to anything they're doing in life. The number one thing they said is that they felt like they were winning. So that became part of our messaging. Like, even when we lost, you're losing forward. What did you learn to win the next time? And the second thing they said is that they found their people. Right? And so I talk about, in. In this book about the irony of having led the largest women's organization in the nation and really not having a whole lot of close friends after age 50, and why I think that's so important and why I went on this whole journey to find friends. You know, it's sort of midlife, because those are the people that will help you achieve the things you want to desire. And. And also, I think you said something else important, which is living on fire doesn't mean you're starting an organization or a business or you're doing this huge thing. It. It is that you are doing even an ordinary thing that is extraordinary to you. Maybe it's a hard conversation or going to therapy or asking for a promotion or taking some classes, but I have just met so, so many women who want to do the next thing, and they feel like I have to cross all my T's, I have to dot all my I's, because God forbid I fail. And there's just so much of that fear of failure wrapped up in what we do. And you have to push through it. Like, there's gonna be blowback. There's gonna be a messy middle. There are gonna be stops and starts. But if you keep practicing this formula, right, marrying your abilities, your values, and your desires, you will eventually start a fire.
- [31:05]
Okay, so two challenges that I think could help anybody who has this kind of cockamamie thinking. Like, I have one is that my whole adult life, people asked me what my hobbies were, and I was so annoyed because I was like, I don't have hobbies. Like, I just don't. Have. Or rather, I have the kind of hobbies where I'm an audience member. Like, I love seeing other people do their thing. That is a great joy for me. But I'm not like doing it. I'm not taking the dance class or playing the sport or doing the play, but I love consuming it and consuming art and anything that makes me laugh. But I have no hobbies where I have skills. And so I picked a career where, I don't know, like, it's what I do in my free time. And as I'm, I'm getting to this point in life where I'm like, I want a damn hobby, but it's like, not as realistic for me. I'm. I'm. Career stuff is less of a. A thing for me in that I feel pretty, I don't know, organized around what my, my career feels like. But I don't. Like, I, I feel like there's something up with the fact that in my free time, I, I really would say that I'm. It looks like I might be working. That might be something that I should either embrace or try to move out of. So I want hobbies and like, I'm just not a skills based person because in that way. And so I really think that this smallness of just starting something that like, fills you and isn't for anybody else, even though it doesn't feel like a fire that's starting to your point, like, that would be so amazing. Like, yeah, it feels insurmountable to me, as ridiculous as that might sound. And part of it is also like, I became a mom and people would. Then I got divorced. And then if I went on a date, somebody would inevitably ask me what my hobbies were. I. What, like, who has time for hobbies? But now I feel like the time is coming where I might just be able to do that. And there's something really beautiful about thinking that there is no judgment about what these fires are or how this life looks. It's more like, what is it for you and for me that is a fire. For someone else, they might be like, this is. I have a hundred hobbies. And like, I've always been kind of digging into that stuff. I don't even cook. Like, I have a lot of room to grow. But I just think it's funny because historically I was kind of raised to think I only should be doing something if it's like, big and purposeful.
- [33:48]
Yes. Yes.
- [33:49]
That's not necessarily what will feed me over the next decades. But how to start, I'm not sure because I don't really know what those skills look like outside of what I'm used to.
- [34:03]
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that's why the fire formula is so valuable. You know, I was consumed by mom's Demand action for 11 years and, and you know, this idea of power being finite. I decided to step back after 11 years and hand the reins over to someone else because I thought it would bring new energy and ideas and I wanted to do other things. And so I struggled with that too. I have when people say, what are your hobbies? I always just say reading, even though I haven't had that much time to read. But I like, I feel I can't say I have no hobbies. That just sounds very sad. But I decided when I stepped back from most of my inaction, dammit, I want hobbies.
- [34:40]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
Yeah.
- [34:40]
Shannon Watts
And so applying this values, abilities and desires, you know, I have a real desire to understand my family history and I am very skilled in ancestry.com and I've even gone and taken some classes at Boston University online for Ancestry. And to me the value is sort of handing down that history to my kids so they understand, you know, who they are. And so I'm getting my certificate in genealogy because I am obsessed with ancestry and that seems like a very strange hobby. And I'm sure that would be an answer that would cause some quizzical expressions. It's very niche, but that's sort of applying the formula to figure out, okay, what else? What are the other things I want to explore.
- [35:28]
Yeah, I like that.
- [35:30]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
And now for a quick break. So you know how your eyes work overtime from reading bedtime stories to endless, endless screen time. So Vision MD from one MD Nutrition is like a refreshing break for your eyes, giving them the care they deserve. Packed with powerhouse ingredients, Vision MD draws inspiration from groundbreaking studies and keeps your vision clear and sharp. 90% of Vision MD users notice better night vision and clarity after just 12 weeks. So you get to see the world in high definition. With all the screen time we're juggling, it's really cool that VisionMD steps up offering essential support for modern day hurdles. The beauty of Vision MD lies in its science backed ingredients that enhance your vision strength while slowing age related changes its eye care with a remarkable impact. So I'm particularly obsessed with vision because.
- [36:32]
Shannon Watts
I will try anything to help my vision. It's something that I struggle with. That's why you all see me in glasses all the time and my vision gets worse and worse. So I think any supplement that can help with vision health is a supplement I am into.
- [36:51]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
Already over a million people are seeing the world more clearly with Vision md. Don't let your eyes be stressed out. Give them the support they need head to onemd.org and use the code humans for 15% off. Let's talk about water wipes. Because water wipes is so great for sensitive baby skin and we've all been there. One second you're having fun at the playground and the next your little one has a big blow out. There's only one thing to do in these moments when life gets dirty. You grab a wipe. We go through so many wipes, so many wipes, so many wipes. But what happens if you have a child with sensitive skin and the wipes are leaving residue and then it's just making them more uncomfortable. You need to get water wipes. It's one of the most used products every day, these wipes. So it's important to know what ingredients are in there. And especially on your little baby or young child's skin, if they're sensitive, you want to pay close attention. And so while other wipes might help parents clean up messes, they don't show the invisible residue of the ingredients that might be left behind on the skin. Water wipes are dermatologist approved for even the most sensitive skin. With minimal ingredients, they provide a superior clean, leaving nothing behind. And they help protect the skin's natural balance of its microbiome. Water wipes again just have two ingredients, 99.9 purified water and a drop of fruit extract. The power behind water wipes is in its name, water. All water wipes products contain pure water filtered through a unique seven step process specifically developed to be purer than cloth and water. For a deeper, more effective clean that leaves nothing behind, pick up a pack of water wipes at Walmart, Target or wherever you get your wipes. And you can head on over to my episode where I teamed up with Chemist Confessions and did all the messy crime scene investigating and testing of water wipes and competitor brands. Visit waterwipes.com to learn more about how water wipes cleans effectively with minimal ingredients.
- [38:56]
Shannon Watts
I also am curious about how we find belonging in community through whatever these fires are. You know, again, like for, if we're talking about hobbies, that might be the opposite. Someone else might be like, I need to work or I want to, whatever it is, I'm, I'm curious if you are feeling like, wait a second, I don't have close connections anymore or I've really kind of let one of my best friends from college, I hadn't seen her in, I don't know, before we had kids, I hadn't seen her in forever. And a lot of my college Friends, we stayed very close, but this particular one, whom I adore, but just she was so head down, working and having many kids and she just like, was far away and didn't keep in touch with anyone. But of course I assumed that she kept in touch with everybody but me. And so I happened to be going to where she lives for work. And so I reached out to her and we had the most wonderful, like time had not passed, lunch together and now we're reconnected. But she said to me, I've lost touch with everybody. Like, friendship and connection just was not a part of the last 20 years and maybe even longer. And I think that is true for so many people, whether it was because of work or because of kids or whatever. And so how can people start from that place? Like, wait, I need more people.
- [40:28]
Yes, I think we all need more connection. Post pandemic. You know, with given social media, we've all become more isolated. I don't think it's super easy to make friends in midlife too. You get so busy with your career and a family and, you know, people move around. And so I was listening to this podcast one day and it said, you know, if you don't have five friends, you can call in the middle of the night for an emergency, you better go find some. Because I thought, well, that's why I had kids. Like they said, it doesn't, kids don't count. And so I really did go on this journey where I read all these books about friendship and I began to really try to cultivate and create connection with other people. And it worked. I mean, I have gone on vacations with other women, which I had really not done very much. And I have friends that I can call. And thanks to Mom's Command Action, I just moved to another state. I have built in friends here. And so that is the benefit of, you know, living on fire, is that when you figure out what it is that lights you up, you also, as I was talking about with Mom's Action, you find your people, right? You find the community. You create a bonfire with other women that really helps you continue to pursue those things and to have the support of other people. And what I have experienced personally is that, you know, I'm, I'm married to a man. Friendship with women is much different. You know, I, I love my husband, but it is much different to have that, have other women in my life. It's just a different kind of energy and a different kind of conversation. And so I think we should all be thinking about that as we figure out what is it that makes us come alive and how do we connect to other people and stay connected.
- [42:09]
Dr. Eliza Pressman
Mm.
- [42:11]
Shannon Watts
I think that was such an important message that you've been talking about. It's just like. And I also. I mean, women are amazing.
- [42:20]
Yep.
- [42:21]
Like, it blows my mind. And I think that. And I have daughters, so I probably err on the side of talking about and thinking about women in this way more than anything, but I. I think those friendships are more and more important than ever. I think every woman I meet now, I'm like, one after another blows my mind. And I've made so many friends at this age, which I. You know, I think there was a time there was kind of a myth of, like, if it's not an old friend, it's not like a. A real close friend. This is such a ridiculous thing that we've been sold, like, you can make new friends as women, and it's pretty phenomenal. And I remember when my kids were born and the friends that I made then, thinking they were new friends, and that was kind of weird. And how are we going to get to know each other? And now it's been two decades.
- [43:14]
Yes.
- [43:15]
So if people are struggling to figure out how to. How to build the bonfire.
- [43:21]
Yes.
- [43:22]
Are the ways in. To sort of find your people through, like, you. You know, finding the things that light.
- [43:28]
You up very much. And I talk about this specifically in the book. Like, how do you reach out to other people? How do you try to create connections? How do you find support systems? Right. Sometimes they're just very pragmatic. Like, I need help getting my kids to and from school so I can do these other things that I want to focus on. But it also might be inspirational. Like, I want to learn from you. I need a mentor. I need you to give me advice. And I go into all the different kinds of support systems and networks and how to tap into those. But I think you're exactly right. I mean, if you are listening to this and thinking, I wish I had more friends. There are other women listening to this, thinking, I wish I had more friends. And it is really about being vulnerable. It is about showing up. It is about trying new things and doing different things, but you can't live on fire on your own. It really does take a community. Just like you can't be an activist on your own. Just like you can't, you know, do a lot of things that are. That are going to help you grow as a human being. It really does require community.
- [44:26]
You know, the first time that I've really, I think in my adult, adult life that I experienced this was when I launched my book and I was like, what is happening? I have never felt more support in my life from women who I knew a little bit. But, like, the amount of support was so mind blowing. And it was. We've talked about this, but it was extremely gendered.
- [44:54]
I love this conversation because, first of all, I remember your post about this and it was so beautiful because it is true. It's like, people, women will come and help and lift you up and support you and. And, you know, I don't feel like there's a scarcity mindset. It's like, let's all succeed. But the other thing that was funny was I asked you, I think during our discussion, had you been interviewed about your book by any men? And you had was this whole conversation about who gets to be an expert.
- [45:22]
It was like, I just got this beautiful, overwhelming support that just made me feel like, so cared for and as if you really allow the world to.
- [45:36]
It's a virtuous circle.
- [45:38]
It's a virtuous circle and it changed my life. Just seeing that, just seeing that and being part of that. And it also informed how I now will support people because I was like, holy moly. This feels incredible and so connected and it gives you such a good sense. And I would say I made some really great friends through the process. And again, these things are all like, how to live. And it could have been looked at years ago. I would have been like, I don't even want to admit that that lit me up. I don't even want to because that wasn't the point of my book in any way, shape or form. But boy, did the, the, the side benefit end up being more beautiful than any other benefit.
- [46:23]
You know, what you're reminding me of is something else I write about in the book, which is legacy. And when I would ask women, like, what do you want your legacy to be? It wasn't something they thought of because they thought that was reserved for, oh, starting a big philanthropy or my name on the side of a building. And it's not like women deserve to leave a legacy. And that needs to be that you lived a life that was authentic to you, that that made you feel you lived audaciously. And that is, is what I want the conversation to be about this book. Like, what is my legacy going to be? Who am I? How do I make sure that when I get to the end of my life that I will feel as if I burned right And I talked to so many women in this book who. Who give examples of what a legacy is to them. And, you know, of course, motherhood comes up. And that is for some, it is, you know, teaching and nurturing their children. And for others, it's, you know, having created something that is going to change people's lives in big or small ways. And I just think we should also be. Besides asking ourselves, what do I want? It's sort of, what do I want my legacy to be? And am I working toward that? You know, I hear a lot from. From women. You know, I'm too old. I don't know what I want. I don't deserve this. You know, there's so many different internal voices and sometimes external voices, right, that tell us we're not worthy or it's too late, or no one wants to hear what I have to say. And nothing could be further from the truth. It's just a bit of a mindset shift. And when you see you read about other women who are taking those initial steps and enduring the blowback, getting through the messy middle, getting to the other side of whatever it is, big or small, I think it makes you feel like you could do it too, for sure.
- [48:16]
And. And I. And part of the legacy is like, I definitely do not want our daughters, younger women, any women to feel that. Questioning.
- [48:27]
Yeah. Like you said about purpose. Right. I mean, just know that the goal is to find fulfillment and that ultimately, if you pursue your desires, if you ask yourself what you want, then you will be. Your legacy will be that.
- [48:54]
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