Dr. Eliza Pressman (5:29)

So what are the like core messages in the songs that you feel like? I wanted these to be in the, like in the water in our household and their, their stories and messages and values?

John Legend (5:43)

Well, I talk a lot about family and togetherness and the idea of us being there for each other through good times and bad. And, you know, I think a lot of parenting, the conversations we have are about helping kids process their feelings and feel comfortable being themselves and feel comfortable exploring and imagining and then also dealing with challenge, you know, when they have a tough time, when they feel sad. So a lot of the messages in the songs are about that. And really, when I started the album, I just sat down and brainstormed. What are the things Chrissy and I like to talk to them about? What are the issues we face? What's the fun stuff we talk about? What? How do we comfort them when they're not feeling great? How do we deal with leaving them? You know, because I travel for work a lot. And so all those things I wrote down in my first day of brainstorming, and then I sat at the piano and based all the music on the themes that I had written down in that brainstorming session.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (6:38)

When you were describing kind of the different things that you do with each of your kids, it feels like you are kind of meeting them where they enjoy things like sports for one and for another, and art. And so I'm just curious, do they have different kinds of songs and ideas and. And stories that they are drawn to?

John Legend (6:57)

Older ones are already very much into popular music. So when we're riding in the car, I'll usually take them to school in the morning and the biggest conversation is who gets to pick the song that we're listening to. So I basically hand them the phone now and let each of them DJ one song, pass it to the next, DJ the next song, pass it to the other. And they go back and forth picking songs for the 15 to 20 minute drive to school every day. So I think both of them feel like picking the song is a way of having control over what's going on and expressing themselves creatively and. And expressing how they're different from their sibling.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (7:39)

Okay, so how do you deal with the differences in these siblings? And also, by the way, I am so envious. Like, I just wish my car, my household, I mean, I just listen to whatever music my teenagers choose. I have no, I'm like, I've got nothing to offer. I'll just learn all music by listening to what they're listening to.

John Legend (7:59)

I'm learning from my kids too. They're eight and six, but they have older cousins, so a lot of times they're getting recommendations from their older cousins. Luna has a girl cousin who's a year and a half older than her, and every time they hang out, she comes back to me with like, new artists she wants to listen to. And so I have no, I have no say over the music in the car when they're in there. Unless it's like a special moment where I'm like, Nope, Daddy's DJing today. Otherwise they're in charge. And so I just learn the stuff that they're into and they're getting it from their friends, their cousins, etc. Talking about it at school or in girl Scouts or something, and they, they know what they want to hear.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (8:40)

Okay, so wait, are you not. Because I feel like I'd be like, dad, sing me that song. Maybe that just doesn't happen. In reality.

John Legend (8:49)

They're very used to me being around. The mystique is beyond worn off now.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (8:55)

So they're like, music is just in the world of your household, but you're not necessarily center.

John Legend (9:03)

Well, Miles used to be obsessed with my music. Like, literally obsessed. Like, I was the only artist he wanted to listen to for a long time. But I knew that wasn't going to last forever. And, yeah, it's over now.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (9:16)

A quick word for my sponsors. I want to tell you about Nanit Baby. It's all the rage. All of my mom and parent groups talk about Nanit baby monitors because they are the must have baby product. Now the monitor allows you to see your baby from anywhere at any time, all from the Nanit app. It's a high def camera that captures every moment. I actually am kind of floored by it because when I had babies, the monitor was like a very poltergeist, like, fuzzy picture. So now you know what's going on with your baby. You can get a little bit of a, like, joy. I was sitting behind somebody in the theater and she must have been a new mom because she was looking at her, her Nanit app and just watching her baby sleeping. Nanit allows you to track your baby's breathing, your sleep patterns, developmental milestones, and they even have personalized insights so you can get a crystal clear video view all on your Nanit app, which means more sleep for your baby, more rest for you. They did a little study and Nanit parents actually get extra, an extra 36 nights of sleep a year. And the babies sleep longer than average. And the Nanit baby monitor has won over 25 awards in 2024 alone. The Nanit Baby Monitor is the MVP of baby gear. It's the one baby item new parents say they can't do without. And of course, we have a special offer just for our listeners. Get 20 off your first order with the code Dream20. That's D R E A M2O@nanit.com Now N A N-I T.com Screen Deep is a new podcast I wanted to tell you about because it aims to decode young brains and behavior in a digital age. Each episode dives into the latest research, groundbreaking studies, and expert insights on how digital media shapes development from birth through adolescence. It's designed for the intellectually curious listeners. The Screen Deep podcast blends accessible storytelling with really engaging conversations that are rooted in rigorous research from a variety of fields on the issues that matter to children and families. These issues are running the gamut from neuroscience to early childhood development, all with an emphasis on decoding young brains and behavior in a digital age. So you can join host Chris Perry and leading experts for thoughtful insights on the information parents and caregivers and educators need to better support children's health and development in a digital world. I am interested in listening to all these episodes. They've got everything from early childhood development and screen use to screen time and sleep quality and quantity and context and adolescent brain development and social media use. The neuroscience of adolescent digital and behavioral addictions, media use and parents. There's so much in this podcast, Screen Deep, that really dives into all of the questions and concerns parents have related to media. Search for Screen D podcast wherever you get your podcast or you can go to childrenandscreens.org so you also mentioned math. This is so nerdy and like, sidebar and I'll probably have to cut it out, but I'm so curious. Were you good at math? Because there's such a. I was, I.

John Legend (12:38)

Was exceptionally good at math. I was like one of the best calculus students in my high school and I did well on the AP test and all that good stuff. And they say music, music. Highly correlated.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (12:52)

Yeah, yeah.

John Legend (12:54)

So highly correlated with music. And so I was, you know, I loved math and I loved the order of it. You know, I like the structure. I like that the answer was the answer. And I like to problem solve as well. You know, I like to hear a problem and see how we can use math to solve it. And then I ended up being a management consultant for three years after college. So I use, you know, mathematical reasoning a lot. That's so in my day job while I was trying to get a record deal. So I'm very big proponent of loving math and, and how it connects to the arts and music particularly well.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (13:31)

I just think when people don't realize, like, how all of these things connect, they kind of throw away things that they think are extra or a luxury when actually they're so important for our developing skills. Skills and also forget the joy, but no for joy and connection and family and also like brain development. So I just thought it would be cool to hear that and I actually didn't know. So that was. Now I don't have to cut it out. I was like feeling this man.

John Legend (14:01)

Well, a lot of times, you know, I do a lot of work around education advocacy and advocacy for the arts in, in our schools. And a lot of times we're not having to convince and educators how important math is, but we're, we're often having to convince policy people how important the arts are and how they're connected to all these other subjects and to self esteem and, and self expression and, and helping young people become their full selves. And I get really frustrated having to argue for us to fund music in schools, fund arts in schools. But we need, all these things are so critical and, and I'm making sure they're, they're all a big part of my kids lives.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (14:46)

That's so beautiful and I'm so glad that you're an advocate for this and can talk about it because you have reach and influence and impact and I want everybody to hear it. It's so first of all, there's so much science out there that is telling us this, but nobody really, I don't know, it's like you still have to sell it.

John Legend (15:07)

You still have to sell it. And I think we went through an era where everyone started to focus on test scores and measurement and accountability. And I, and I think there's always a place for accountability and measurement and, and tracking progress. But when that takes over the school and it takes over the motivation of the teachers, then it kind of forces everyone to be hyper focused on only the elements that'll be covered in that test rather than thinking about the whole person. And so whenever I have conversations with educators who are trying to give their kids a really well rounded education, they all know how important our art and expression and passion and creativity are to making them really supple, fully well rounded human beings. They know that and we just got to make sure we spread that message far and wide. And even in the era of standardized tests and measurement and accountability, we've got to teach well beyond what, what's on those tests.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (16:15)

Hear, hear. And also you'll probably do better on the tests anyway.

John Legend (16:19)

Absolutely. It, it, it all correlates and, and you'll notice all those elite schools, all the schools with money and all the schools, with all the resources, they know, they're making sure the kids have arts and sports and all the other things that they need to become full human beings. And so why not give that to every school?

Dr. Eliza Pressman (16:39)

Okay. I want to kind of pivot, if it's okay. Although I could talk about that all day. But I wanted to ask you if you're comfortable kind of giving us a little sense of just so people feel the. Just like we're all in this for each one of the ages of your four kids. So 18 months, 2, 6, and 8. Is that right?

John Legend (16:59)

Yeah.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (16:59)

I mean, I cannot believe that what are, like, sort of the sort delights and maybe the. The. The. The pain point of each of those ages for you right in this moment? I mean, nothing too personal.

John Legend (17:15)

Well, Luna's eight, and she's so smart and emotionally intelligent and. And she's got a great sense of humor. She's a lot like her mother. She loves to create, so she's really into music. But also she's a really good painter and. And loves to come up with ideas for art projects. She's building things in the playroom, like, literally building things from cardboard boxes, building dollhouses. And I just love seeing her creativity and her sense of humor. It's a good combination. So she's just fun to be around. Challenges, you know, they're starting to get into that era when they want things to all be fair, and they're comparing themselves to their sibling all the time. Both her and Miles are in this competition all the time where, you know, they're competing for our love and attention and favor. I think they can't help but feel like this is a scarce resource that they have to, like, win.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (18:22)

Yeah.

John Legend (18:22)

When, you know, in our minds, we've got enough love and attention for everybody. But I think in their minds, they're like, they've got to fight over it. And so they. They battle. Yeah, the two of them, they battle each other. And, you know, I'm. As an adult, I'm, like, watching shows like Succession and things like that and seeing, like, adult sibling rivalries, and I'm like, are they going to be like this forever?

Dr. Eliza Pressman (18:46)

I feel like succession takes it to a different level. You don't have to.

John Legend (18:51)

Yeah. But I'm like, you know, I could see the. See, like, the seeds of it, you know, and I'm like, please, God, I don't want them to be like this forever. But, yeah, they. They compete for sure.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (19:02)

No, I definitely. I mean, obvious. I have two of two girls, and Two stepchildren, and they're all teenagers. But I do think, like, I was particularly obsessed just as a, like, succession sibling relationships, but also just the, the wild, problematic attachment relationship with their dad. But I was just thinking, given that, I think that's why their sibling relationships were so intense. And your kids are not gonna have that problem just based on the very limited time we've spoken, because.

John Legend (19:37)

Well, I think part of it. And you see this, you see this. And not to get too political, but you see it in like, Mary Trump's description of how Donald and his siblings were raised, that when the father creates this sense of like, cutthroat competition among them is scarcity. Yeah. They foster that scarcity mindset and we, we, we make sure we don't encourage that. Indeed.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (20:02)

Yeah, totally. But it's still true no matter what. Like, I, when, whenever my, I see my teenagers with a kernel of anything that I'm afraid of for the future, you, you can just spin out and just be like, oh, my God, is this going to lead to that? That. But it's not. I'm saying this and I'm like, I actually, please, Lord, no. And then what about the Littles?

John Legend (20:25)

So, Well, I didn't. Let me get into Miles a little bit more. Like I said before, he, he loves, he loves sports. He's super smart. His vocabulary and like, he's, he was reading earlier than any kid in his class and he's really like, verbal and great storyteller and really good at engaging with people. And then he loves sports. And then his teachers tell me he's the one that's like, knows everyone's name in the hallway, even older kids, and everybody's stopping by to say hi to him. So I feel like, you know, he's a man about town and he's only 6 years old, so I'm curious to see how that develops. But he's a really good athlete, really, really social. And he also really loves music, but he's not as into the performing of it, but he appreciates it. Like, he wants to DJ all the time. He even did a week of dj, like camp in la, a very LA thing to have. And he did that this, this past summer. And he loves music, like, whenever, even when we're playing in the backyard, he wants to play music and control what we're listening to while we're playing. And so, you know, those are the things that. Going on with him. But of course, we've recently talked about how we just discovered he has type 1 diabetes. And so that's kind of the most interesting wrinkle that has been thrown into our parenting lives and his life in the past six months. And so we're learning now how to be parents of a kid with type 1 diabetes and all the, you know, accoutrement that come with that, the little devices, the patches and the finger pricks and all those things, we're learning all about that and he's learning with us and he's, he's doing well with it, but it's challenging sometimes. So that's definitely the biggest parenting challenge with him right now.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (22:12)

I'm sorry, that's such a huge challenge that, that it sounds like is very recent.

John Legend (22:18)

It's recent. But, you know, I think we're really learning and both Chrissy and I, I think we're, we're good about it because we're like, you know what, it's not life threatening, fortunately. It's just something we have to manage. And luckily there's been a lot of technology improvements over the years and there's more and more happening every day. And we believe and know that we're going to get through this with him. And, and we also have friends who are adults that have had Type one since they were kids and, and they've been helpful and advising us and giving us support. And we feel like we've got a great village of people who know what's happening and are able to help us.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (23:00)

It's really incredible because there is a kid with type 1 diabetes in my kid's friend group. And one thing I'll tell you that I find just magnificent is that all their peers and siblings just like, are in it with them to make sure that all's well. And it's very cool. Like, it's just a beautiful part of watching kids learn how to navigate these things. Even though there's always going to be, you know, a moment when maybe that child is getting more attention or, you know, it, it feels like something is more challenging. But I have been mesmerized by watching that.

John Legend (23:39)

Yeah. And that's part of what's interesting about it. One is the, the direct challenge of him having to experience these things physically. The patches on his body, the pricks and needles and things of that nature, and then having to have some responsibility for every time he eats, knowing he's got to get a dose of insulin to make sure his body processes the sugar he's going to have. And he's already grown into that sense of responsibility. He wants to enter into the phone himself and, and dose himself and all these things, and he's already taking some ownership over it, which I think is great. But also, you know, with Luna and that sense of competition, you know, she sees him getting more attention in certain areas, and that's something else, you know, we have to deal with as parents.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (24:24)

You know, it's like, going to be both. I'm sure it's both infuriating and also, like, she will be the most protective out in the world. Just not. Certainly not.

John Legend (24:36)

Yeah.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (24:37)

When at home.

John Legend (24:38)

Yeah.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (24:39)

The other.

John Legend (24:40)

Every once in a while, they'll give me hints that they, like, when they're not together, like, they miss each other or. Or when the school called and something happened to one of them, the other one actually, like, rallied to their defense or made sure they were okay. And so every once in a while, you're like, oh, they really do love each other. Right.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (24:59)

You get, like, a little tiny glimmer that's really. Also this. This is like, kids that are. That just have this responsibility tend to take high school. Like, all the risks of high school are so reduced because they've already had to kind of use their frontal lobe in a way that most kids don't have to.

John Legend (25:21)

Yeah. I think it'll make him more resilient, and he'll be able to take whatever challenges life throws his way.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (25:28)

So what about your youngest?

John Legend (25:30)

So the youngest two are. They're. They're fun, you know, they're running around now. They're talking. They're trying to, like, you know, navigate the world. Now. This is Luna. Hi, Luna. She's zoom bombing. Okay, baby, I'm doing a long interview, okay? So I need some time. It's for a podcast, Mom. It's funny because I'm sitting in mommy's podcast area right now. This is so Chrissy. If you Google Chrissy's name. Today, they just announced that she's doing a podcast with Audible, and this is, like, the adjacent lounge in our bedroom. And she decided she would host the podcast up here. And she's talking to people like you, basically. People who are expert experts on childhood development on. On sleep, on meditation. Just. Just. She just having conversations with people about life and how to live your best life. And so it's funny that I'm sitting here having this conversation with you because it's almost like. It's almost like an episode of Chrissy's podcast. Okay, baby, reverse. Okay, baby. Thank you. Bye.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (26:42)

I don't get those hugs and kisses unless I beg. Okay, well, that's good. I do think it is nice to record Right then and right, right in there and not have to go anywhere and not have to, you know.

John Legend (26:55)

Yeah. Especially about these kinds of topics. It's very like, it feels like a home conversation.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (27:00)

Yeah. No, it's interesting because I am usually sitting in a different, like with a different hat on. And I, I do, I think it's really important for parents to also like, expertise is incredibly helpful, especially when those of us in that area are responsible about it and not like all knowing and prescriptive. But I think if parents don't hear from other parents, it's really hard to not feel like you're just a failure. You know, you're like failing all the time and yeah, it's supposed to be super challenging and I just think it's the great equalizer. Like we all just love our kids and want to figure out how to do this.

John Legend (27:47)

Yeah. And I think we really can learn from each other and, and, and it's good to not have a scarcity mindset when it comes to that either because, you know, at some point, you know, in the like the private school world or in the applying for college world, everyone's thinking there's only a few spots and my kids should be the one to get it and not that other person's kid. But I think if we all approach it as, you know, we all can learn from each other and exchange great ideas together, I think we'll all be better off.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (28:18)

Hear, hear. And we need to figure that out clearly. Now a quick word for my sponsors. Isn't it great when you can get someone a gift they wouldn't necessarily get for themselves? That little bit of luxury that they don't know they're missing. So I have a great go to for you. It's Quint, where you can get quality gifts at affordable prices and there's really something for everyone. Like Quinn says, iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters which start at $50 and they are just like a perfect go to gift for boys, for girls, for men, for women, or if you want a year round gift, they've got 14 karat gold jewelry, they've got Italian leather handbags, they've got European linen sheet sets. I mean literally, they have every gift you're looking for. So how do they make it so inexpensive that it's priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands? They do it by partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the costs of the middleman, which passes the savings right on to you. And I wanted to get sweaters for my girls. They had all the perfect colors. Soft cashmere. Totally luxurious, but a fraction of the price gift luxury. This holiday season without the luxury price Tag, go to Quince.com humans for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com humans to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com human this is the time of year I get these questions all the time, like, is my child ready for a smartphone? I can't answer that for you, but I can tell you to delay, delay, delay. Because of all of the things that the smartphone contains or can contain on wi fi and just apps that you just don't need to get young people involved in. Gab is awesome. That's why I want to tell you about Gab's holiday sale. So Gab is the leader in safe phones and watches for kids and teens and tweens. There are no social media apps, no Internet browser and GPS tracking. So Gab devices were basically built from the ground up specifically for kids and are the way to keep your kids safely connected. And it's such a great way to put off a smartphone. And Gab phones and watches are still actually tech that kids want because they have music, which is kind, kind of the most important thing that actually is positive and beneficial that a phone can offer apart from being able to get in touch with your parent. I also really like that their watches have a focus mode so that during school hours, if you are allowing them to have this watch, it does not ping. You cannot, like, be distracted by it. Because I really want all these distractions removed during the school day and at night when kids are sleeping. And do it now because right now Gab is offering huge discounts on their phones and watches. And the best part, there's no contract required. Just go to gab.com humans and get started. That's Gab. G-A-B-B.com humans gab.com humans Terms and conditions apply. Okay, so I want to get back to these little ones. So you're. Are you at this point because you have four kids? You're like, now the, like when, when it used to be that toddlers were terrifying. They're just like, adorable.

John Legend (31:51)

They really are adorable. Honestly. They're talking a lot. They're running around. You can see them, like, processing the world, asking for what they want and finding the words to say that it's super cute and we love it. They make us giggle and smile all the time. And the older ones are so good. With them, all that competition mindset that they have with each other, it's out the window with the babies. They're super loving, and they want to pick them up and hold them and. And protect them and all those things.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (32:21)

Okay, so I want to wrap up with a little holiday like you have. First of all, I think everybody can go grab your album for the holidays. I can do that pitch because I'm sure I sell a lot of albums.

John Legend (32:33)

Well, we've got. We've got two albums you could theoretically sell. So one is My Favorite Dream, which is the new children's album that came out in August, but also released an album called A Legendary Christmas back in 2018. And I'm going on a Christmas tour in 12 cities around the country this December. And so I'll be performing a lot of those songs in December. And, you know, those are evergreen. Even though the album's six years old now, they're classics covered, like what Christmas Means to Me by Stevie Wonder and Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire and this Christmas by Donny Hathaway and lots of classics, plus a few originals. And so I'll be touring with that in December. And I think both of those are good holiday music choices.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (33:17)

I love it. And what are your favorite holiday traditions? And I just would like to imagine that you're just singing the songs and putting on the music. And what are you.

John Legend (33:28)

Yes. And. And growing up, not only were we playing the music, we were making the music together. We were going to my granny's house, my dad's mom and she would host in her little pink house in Springfield, Ohio, and she would put together Christmas dinner. But then after dinner was over, we would always gather around the piano and sing together. And it would be just this huge family sing along singing like, you know, temptations, Silent Night, Jackson 5, Santa Claus is Coming to Town, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, all that Motown Christmas stuff, plus Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire, all those songs, a lot of which I covered on my album, we were singing together around the piano growing up. And so music has always been integral to my understanding of what the holidays were, and I try to carry that on with my kids. We listen to my Christmas album and other Christmas music throughout December. And like I said, I'll be touring this Christmas, so I'll be immersed in Christmas music throughout December.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (34:33)

I just want to hear a little bit about kind of your lived experience as a kid who clearly came with gifts, because I think that gifted kids get this, and I know that we don't use gifted kids anymore, as the, the way we say it, because it's in and of itself could put a lot of like the, the pressure that it should just appear. But tell me what that was like.

John Legend (34:53)

Well, I was homeschooled a lot of my youth, so prior to 8th grade, I only spent two years in any organized school. And other than that, I was taught at home by my mother. And I was really precocious. I loved to read, I loved math. I was very independent. I would just read anything I wanted and, and practice math with workbooks and flashcards. I was the spelling bee champion in my city when I was in third grade and or fourth grade. And I was, you know, my nickname was Doogie Howser when I got to high school because by the time I got to high school, my mother had them test me each time I went back to organized school and they would advance me a grade beyond my peers twice. So when I first went to organized school, it was a little Christian school in my hometown and I was supposed to go to first grade, but I got advanced to second grade. And then the next time I went back to organized school, I was going to be heading into seventh grade and they decided it's test me again and put me in eighth grade. So by eighth grade, only 11 years old, oh my gosh, two years younger than all my peers and you know, not going through puberty when they were already there and all those things. So I was really like socially pretty awkward and behind and you know, during those years, two years is a lot of time so much in a child's development. And you know, I'm 45 now, so the difference between me and a 47 year old is not significant. But the difference between an 11 year old and a 13 year old is quite significant. So yeah, it was quite a thing for me to integrate into any school environment because I was such a precocious, kind of nerdy kid, but also pretty shy and socially awkward and had spent a lot of time away from other kids and only around my siblings. I had three siblings and still do. So it was really interesting. But music was always my way of like feeling more connected to people and introducing myself to people because I knew that I had that and I could sing and play and if people saw me on stage, it kind of broke the ice with anything else and brought me out of my shell.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (37:12)

So were you like when you had kids, do you think about that with them? Like, how do I? Obviously that was the experience that you had. You can't even know what it would have been if you had, you know, not been 11 and hanging out with 8th graders and all that stuff. But do you think about like the balance between the precocious. The precociousness and making sure that you get all of the intellectual and artistic advancement that you're capable of and also like the social connection?

John Legend (37:43)

Yeah, I honestly, I would side with not wanting to skip my kids ahead and, and you know, it worked out just fine for me, but I think there's enough social reasons not to do it that I don't see the point. There's no rush, you know, in getting them through high school. Like, there's no, there's no rush to get them to college at 16.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (38:04)

So you went to college at 16?

John Legend (38:06)

Yeah, I did.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (38:08)

I could dig in for so long. Wow, that's incredible. Just like what that must have been like.

John Legend (38:19)

It was so different. And you know, I'm going to Penn, so I'm at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. And yeah, I'm from a city of 70,000 and pretty sheltered. I'd never even flown prior to visiting Penn. So the first time I ever got on a plane, Penn paid for me to come to a minority scholars weekend that they had in Philadelphia in my senior year in high school. And that was my first time ever getting on an airplane. So I was a pretty sheltered, shy, small town kid from a blue collar family. And then you get the pen. And everyone's usually from a big city or a suburb. A lot of the kids are from the northeast, you know, from areas around New York and around Philadelphia. And a lot of them went to expensive private schools and have a lot of money and. And I was just not any of those things.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (39:15)

And then did you dive right into music? Like were you. Did people know like, oh, this guy is so like you when you get the pen.

John Legend (39:24)

Or at least at the time when I got There, you know, 29 years ago, they had a performing arts showcase kind of thing where.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (39:32)

For freshmen.

John Legend (39:33)

Yeah, for freshmen. It was basically a recruiting device for all the groups because they wanted you to see what they did. And then people would audition to become a part of it. And so I decided to audition for some acapella groups and I got into a few and joined a group called Counterparts. It was a co ed. We did like jazz and pop and soul.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (39:58)

And my college boyfriend was a Dartmouth heir.

John Legend (40:02)

Okay. Yeah. So we would go to all those different kind of Ivy League cross pollinating acapella concerts and that really became like a core part of my friend group throughout college. So music really like, was a way of, like, creating friendships for me. And a lot of my experiences at Penn revolved around that. And then at the same time, I was living in the quad and around a bunch of other freshmen, and. And so my roommates ended up being just other guys that lived around me in the quad. And we were kind of like a diverse, interesting group. A lot of us were into the arts and music. A lot of us were into hip hop. And. And so I ended up collaborating musically with a bunch of my roommates. One of them was a DJ who became a producer and who happened to be cousins with Kanye West. And so I met Kanye when we all moved to New York through his cousin who was my roommate when we were both unknown young artists. And so that all happened through my pen connection and just having a tribe of friends around me who are creative and. And into music.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (41:11)

Wow. I, like, can't even. That's amazing. And they didn't feel like, oh, he's 16. They were like, well, I lied.

John Legend (41:19)

I lied when I got the pen. You know how you can kind of reinvent yourself when you go to college because no one knows you? So I only lied by one year, but I felt like if I was only one year younger than everyone, it just wouldn't feel like I was a freak, as opposed to two. So I just told everyone I was 17 instead of 16 when I got there. No one thought of me as, like, super weird. It was enough for me to be from a small town and not have money. And so I figured, like, being 16 was just too many things.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (41:46)

Oh, my God.

John Legend (41:48)

I just said 17 when you turned.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (41:50)

21, but you were really only 20. Were people like, how'd you have ID?

John Legend (41:55)

My. I. My same roommate who introduced me to Kanye had a friend whose ID he had a hold of. It was a real id, and he didn't look that much like me, but he looked enough like me that if the bartender. I mean, if the bouncer is, like, being generous, he would let me in. And it was a real id, so it wasn't fake. It was just not me. So I just started using that around, like, 19 years old. And then I didn't become 21 until I was, like, a working management consultant in Boston.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (42:27)

Oh, my God. Where were you consulting in Boston?

John Legend (42:30)

I was at bcg. Boston Consulting Group. I did. I did one year in Boston and two years in New York.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (42:36)

That is so bananas. You just would never think that somebody who went into consulting was, like, gonna become John Legend.

John Legend (42:46)

You never know. You never know.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (42:48)

It really does Open the mind to just all the wild things. That is fascinating. I cannot. That's really so cool and so much different from kind of what your kids are experiencing. I know that you need to get going, so I just wanna close with one kind of rosebud and thorn thing. What's your rose of this holiday season?

John Legend (43:14)

Well, the rose. I feel like the rose and the thorn are both the same thing. I get to tour this December, and I love performing Christmas music and I love connecting with my audience and. And I've been on the Voice every December since I released my Christmas album. So I hadn't had a chance to tour the music since 2018. So I'm excited to finally be able to go out and tour the music again. But of course, that's going to take me away from my kids and my wife, and that's going to be the thorn, definitely, of December. But eventually we're all going to get back together. We're going to do a big Christmas in London week starting on, like, the 23rd. And so I'm really looking forward to that.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (43:58)

So that's your bud thing.

John Legend (44:00)

Yes. And the thorn is the. The absence time that will make. That will make the holiday even more, you know, meaningful.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (44:08)

Well, it was so nice to have you on and meet you and I hope you have a wonderful tour and, you know, this all goes beautifully.

John Legend (44:18)

And let me thank you so much.

Dr. Eliza Pressman (44:34)

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