A (4:05)

So let's give a concrete 18 month old tantrum. Like when it, when, when you've seen.

B (4:11)

It yesterday, we not a lie. We have like a swing in our house and it's one of those like silk ones. They can kind of climb inside of it and, and swing and they can both go in it. And sometimes that'll happen. My son was in it and my daughter said, swing two. And I was like, oh, you want to swing too? And asked him if she could come in and he said no. And she then went over and like through the swing pinched him where sometimes she'll go up and like push him in the swing. And I'm like, oh, great, she's about to go give him a push. This is perfect. And she went up and just like pinched him through the swing. And so then he's screaming and she's now also screaming and I internally am screaming. So I in that moment moved her body away. I'm always gonna do safety first when we can here. So I moved her body away and I said, oh, I won't let you pinch him. And stayed between the two of them because she will often go into fight mode as her reaction most of the time. And so she'll keep going, she'll pinch again, she'll hit, she might bite. And so I stayed between them and turned to her and Validated for her. You really wanted to go in the swing right now. And Sage wants to be by himself in there, man. It's hard to feel left out. And she just, like, came up next to me and she has this, like, mad face on. And I was like, oh, you're so mad. I see your eyebrows are scrunched and your face is all squished into a ball. You're so mad. And he's meanwhile crying. And so I validated for her enough that she, like, came into the side of me and I was like, you can stay right here. I'll help you figure this out. And then turned to him and was like, buddy, I'm so sorry that she pinched you. That really hurts. It's happened to me before too. I'm going to take care of her so that you can be safe. Do you want to push in the swing? And he said yes. And so I just, like, gave him a push and then moved away with her. Like, so often with two kids, it's triage. Right. Of like, who needs me more when. And in that moment, even though he had gotten hurt, she actually needed me more in that moment. I think sometimes that can feel really hard because it can feel like we're giving attention to the human who just caused somebody else pain.

A (6:39)

Yeah, I think that's a great example because she's, she's so. She's 18 months old and in order to keep him safe, she needs more skills. And then. And so you're helping her regulate and helping her figure out how to not go and pinch her brother over and over. And now a quick break to tell you about One MD Nutrition. So you know how our eyes work on overtime, from reading to bedtime stories to endless screen time. And you know, I am always wearing glasses because my vision is definitely a big challenge. So I really get interested in any sort of support. So Vision MD from One MD Nutrition is this little refreshing break for your eyes. It's packed with powerhouse ingredients and it draws inspiration from groundbreaking studies that keep your vision clearer and sharper. In fact, Vision MD has done research that shows that 90% of their users notice better night vision and clarity after just 12 weeks. So it's like seeing the world in high definition. And with all of the screen time everybody's juggling and the glare and the stress, there's a lot of challenges. So Vision MD is trying to step up to that, offering essential support for these modern day hurdles. So whether you're keeping up with your kids or enjoying family moments, VisionMD ensures you don't miss a single detail. And VisionMD has a 90 day money back guarantee so that's a no pressure way to see if it's different for you. So give those eyes some relief with vision. MD visit onemd.org and use the code humans to enjoy 15% off with a 90 day money back guarantee to see the results for yourself. It's hard to believe the new school year is starting. Parents, if you are looking for the best fit for your child this year and you haven't quite found satisfaction in your current situation, you can check out K12 powered schools. You can help your child succeed now and in the future with online education options that are tailored to their unique needs and interests and schedules. So basically K12 powered schools are accredited tuition free online public schools for students in kindergarten through 12th grade. They're designed with an engaging curriculum that supports individual learning styles and K12 has been a leader in online education for for over 25 years. They help students gain skills they need to thrive in the future. They have state certified teachers that are specially trained for online teaching and they continue to receive ongoing professional development and they even offer social opportunities which are obviously hugely important and challenging for online school situations. They offer extracurricular activities and in person events as well. So so if you are looking for a different kind of solution, join the more than 3 million families who have chosen K12 and empower your student to reach their full potential now. And there is still time to enroll for this school year. Go to k12.com humanstoday to find a tuition free K12 powered school near you and enroll now. That's the letter k the number 12.com humans k12.com humans so let's say an example of when he was 18 months old and those would be too many words.

B (10:24)

Yeah. So for him I would have said ouch, that hurts. I won't let you pinch. We'll take some space. And that I would have paused and the space for him I would have had to move his body but he then typically would like retreat into a spot. So like once I moved him to another room he would like go hide under a blanket or hide in a corner and like he's a fleer, he runs and so he will run and hide and then as. And I would just stay nearby but say nothing. So I would stay in the room and I would say I'm going to be here and then just sit. And that's the hardest part for me. Just like shutting up is so hard in that moment because I want to fill the silence with all my words. I'm very similar to my daughter. I'm like, talk to me, tell me how great I am. Tell me all my things. And I have to like actively in my head be like, say nothing, Alyssa. Say nothing, Alyssa. Say nothing. And then he will come out.

A (11:22)

Okay, so now how much more can we do with the 2 to 3 year old? So now 2 to 3 year old sample tantrum. Yeah, so many examples. But you could just pick, pick one that resonates.

B (11:37)

I just had one pop up from. I was a teacher in early childhood for a while. So I'd have a whole classroom of kids, which means I can't give like a one to one attention in those moments. And what often gets our attention the most are kids who go into fight mode. And in my household, we have categorized the fight, flight, freeze and fawn response as animals. My son's very interested. What does that animal do when they feel scared? Like, do they freeze? Will they bite? And is very curious in the wild. Like, what's that animal going to do? And so we have the puppy dog in our household is the fawn that'll like meet you with a tail between its legs. It's like, I'm so sorry I got into the garbage again. I know I wasn't supposed to. And then we have the possum that freezes and we have a frog that flees. Born out of my son trying to catch a frog in the backyard that was like hopping away. And then we have the lion that goes into fight mode. And the kids who often get our attention the most are the kids who go into fight mode predominantly who are gonna bite, who get big, who yell, who might throw things. And my son recently said to my daughter, often goes into fight mode and he flees usually. He said, man, it's hard to live with a lion sometimes. I was like, it really is hard to live with a lion sometimes. But I have this little guy who just came to mind who was often a lion when he would feel left out, was one of them when he felt like somebody was coming into his space and gonna use his toys or make him go into like a plan B, that there was plan A. And whether he was using all of those blocks or not, he had a plan for them. And so if somebody else came into that space that was a threat to his plan. And he would throw something, he would like grab a face, he would pull hair. And he was about two and a half at the time. And another kiddo came into block area and he took a Block. And he threw it at the kid, and then he grabbed their hair. And it happens so fast, right? Like, it's in immediately inside, we're like, aha. You go into that panic mode of I got to keep them safe, and that's my job. And I find myself, like, I have to remind myself of, like, what is an emergency? What isn't an emergency? And really asking myself that question as fast as possible. Is this an emergency? And I'll pop over. And I opened. His hand was, like, holding a chunk of hair of this little girl's. And so I pushed into the hand, like, into her head, and it released the hair. And then I snuggled her into my side, and I turned to him, and I said, oh, man. She came over here, and you were planning to use all these blocks, and she came into your space. I'm going to help keep you both safe. And he was like, I'm going to use it. And she's coming in, and I'm building this bridge. And he, like, just unleashed his whole plan on us of, like, yeah, he was going to build this big bridge, and now she's here, and what if she takes the blocks he was going to use? I was like, totally, yeah. You have an idea in your head, and you really want to build that bridge. And here, because there's more verbal language for him, we could have more of that back and forth where he can tell me what his plan is. And in this moment, I'm just keeping them physically safe and letting him express, making sure that he's not hurting her, he's not throwing any more blocks. My hands are at the ready if I have to deflect a block. But he's just expressing. Once he got it all out and I validated, and he felt like, all right, we're in this together. She gets this. And I was like, I want to help you figure this out. And I feel like my heart is beating so fast, My shoulders are up to my ears. Everything feels so big right now. I don't feel like I'm ready to figure this out yet. Can you help me with something? We got some new art supplies, and we have new jugs of paint, and I needed to go put them away. Can you help me do that? And then we'll come back and figure this out, and I'll make sure nobody touches these blocks while we're gone. I knew that for him, that, like, heavy work, that big body play was something that was often regulating and calming for him. And so he was like, but nobody can touch my blocks. And I was like, totally. And I brought her with me and she stayed at my side and just brought her along with for the ride. And we went, we put the art supplies back and then we came back and I was like, oh, okay, now I feel ready. And he was like calmer at that moment. The moving of the paint and putting it away and stepping away from that space regulated him enough. And then we were able to talk about like, okay, what can we do? And now we can make a plan together because he can access more of his brain here and he has the verbal language to have a little back and forth with me.

A (16:55)

And now for a quick break. So let's talk about olivitamins because I just had a really cool event with them. And I was in conversation with Ashley Graham and we talked about sort of the back to school chaos and the schedules and the good habits that we want to start at the beginning of the school year. And just like all the different small ways that you can make routines and wellness is right up there. So Ollie makes wellness very easy and thoughtful for part of this routine. So for the daytime, like in the mornings, you can try the kids multiplus probiotic also. It's all gummy, so it's yummy. It's like just like a little bit easier to go down. There's also a really good way to get your kids back in a sleep routine. If they're struggling sort of with figuring out time zones or just like a new schedule, they have a kid's sleep or gentle support. And also for us, just mom support with our immune system with their women's multivitamin. And again, it's all in gummy form with none of the crap in it that we don't want. So I really like their stuff. For the full back to school lineup, check out ollie.com o l l y.com for the women's multi, the men's multi, the kids multi plus the probiotics, plus the kids sleep, plus the grownup sleep. You get the gist. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Make sure to go to o l l y.com I want to tell you about responsibility.org's ask, listen and learn campaign because they are making an effort to reduce underage drinking. It's an underage drinking and underage substance misuse prevention program and it has resources for parents, for educators, and for kids in grades four through eighth. So it's for younger kids really before hopefully they're even experiencing these temptations, challenges and issues. So we know informed kids make better decisions and we know that mental health matters and we know that mental health and substance misuse are highly linked. So, so they have new materials that are addressing how underage drinking and underage cannabis use can affect tween mental health and how parents can work with their kids on identifying mental health struggles and ways to appropriately cope with stress and anxiety without turning towards substance use. So the resources are digital, they're free, they're available@asklistenlearn.org we know that even though it might not feel like it, parents really are the number one influence on their kids decisions and they will hear our voice in their heads. So it's important that they know how we feel about things, that we educate them and that we educate ourselves. Our connection is so protective. So visit asklistenlearn.org mental health to view the materials today. So start a conversation with your kids to further empower them to say yes to healthy lifestyles and no to underage drinking and underage cannabis use. I mean, I do want to address like, because I don't. I think we can say with confidence that tantrums dissipate for sure, but they're still going to happen periodically in the older kids. Maybe we do one example with a young school aged child child and then we can talk about some of the other underlying stuff.

B (20:50)

Yeah, totally. So we just. The other day I got a text from a friend of mine that was like, why is my 8 year old a teenager? And she's like, she just walked away from me, rolled her eyes, walked away, slammed a door like, what is this? The tantrums still happen for all of us. My sarcastic, snippy, rude comments to my husband is a just a big kid tantrum, right? Like still just having them. It is just they start to evolve in a way where they can, I think for us as adults kind of cut a little deeper where we have an age bias, right? We're like, oh, we're over this. You're not three anymore. We're not doing this. This is done. And it's just a big myth that we're sold in parenthood is that they fully go away, that there's an age you reach where all of a sudden you're not going to have dysregulation, which is really what a tantrum is, is I'm dysregulated. I either don't have the skill I need to handle this another way or I don't have access to the skill that I need to handle this another way. In the case of this eight year old, they had come home from school and it's like end of the school year she was just like fried from. They had just like done a series of tests for a week. And now it was days that were like fun days at school. And so her mom was like, she didn't even have that hard of a day. Like they're not. They had like field day and she came home and was just fried from the day. Really ready to be in summer mode and not in school mode anymore. And then later it came out that there had been a like thing at field day with another girl and there was some friendship drama happening. And so she's carrying all that. And when I think about this, especially as kids get older, when we have a secure attachment with our kids, the places outside of us often get the best of them and we get the rest. And so they held it together at school and then came home and rolled their eyes at their mom and slammed the door because she gets the rest of them at that moment, she gets the message. Messy hard parts where this kiddo knows I can be vulnerable, I can be messy. I don't have to be perfect to be loved here. And what a cool sign in relationship. And also just a hard truth of parenthood is that we do get their messy hard parts. When we have that secure attachment with them. They know that they get to show those parts of themselves without fearing losing our love.

A (23:33)

Yeah. At the beginning of the school year, it's a really good reminder because there are going to be so many kiddos that might be coming home having just kept it together all day. And their safe place is to let loose at home. And we can start feeling like so awful. But it's such a great developmental expectation and also quite flattering. Even though it doesn't feel flattering, it's just safe. We're safe.

B (24:02)

That's it. It doesn't feel flattering. It feels like, come on, like, what is going on and why do I have these hard parts? And that's it. We are safe.

A (24:12)

So one of the things that really can get in the way of navigating tantrums is often our developmental expectations. And so first we went through kind of tantrums from the 18 month old tantrum through to the school age tantrum. But let's talk about our expectations so that we can sort of know how and what to expect during those ages, because we need tantrums. They're never going to just go away. And I think sometimes the headline is like, stop tantrums. Like, prevent all tantrums. And like, yes, you can turn the volume down, you can reduce them. Because sometimes there's way too many happening because we're getting into these power struggles. But can you talk about the developmental expectations from the, you know, those same ages so that parents can know when it gets to be like, oh, I should be worried. This is more than usual.

B (25:13)

Yeah, so correct. There's no, like, taming the tantrum and, like, making it stop isn't a thing. What is most powerful is when we can get curious and say, like, I wonder what's going on here? And when we can get curious and notice that, oh, this child has a need for connection. They want to feel included or they're feeling left out, and that's what's stemming from this. Or this child has a sensory need that's not being met, whether it's they're tired or they're hungry or their body's overstimulated or needs movement. It's so powerful because when we start to see, like, there's a pattern of tantrums happening over and over, it's the same time, it's the same stuff. Or we notice it's happening after the same things, and we can start to really get curious around that. We might start to see patterns where, oh, every time they are in a large group after a birthday party or people are over at our house for dinner, they are having giant meltdowns and tantrums. Every time on repeat. Cool. Then we can start to look at that stimulation piece and say, what is it for them that might help their nervous system regulator feel safe? And we actually, we worked with a group of occupational therapists to put together a questionnaire that's free for folks that helps you understand your child's unique nervous system. You can take it for any age, including adults. In fact, for what's been fun to see is the majority of folks who have taken it so far are adults for themselves. Like, how does my nervous system work? And it looks at all nine sensory systems and looks at what you might be sensitive to versus seeking for regulation. So what is draining this person's nervous system versus what regulates them? And when we are looking at tantrums and we're seeing that there is a sensory route where this human is either understimulated, they need more movement. It can let us know what type of movement. And the questionnaire, because it's built out by age, will give you then age specific Answers of like, here are activities that might be helpful for your child for this human. And then it looks at the sensitivities as well. And it looks at it on a spectrum of like say negative 2 being very sensitive to plus 2 being high seeking kind of where on that spectrum does somebody fall of a negative 2, a negative 1, a 0, a plus 1, a plus 2 to be able to look at how do we then support this human in a more sustainable manner? Whether it's at home, whether it's at school, whether it's in transition times, and especially when we have that sensory route. This can be a game changer. When we have kids who are coming home and they're melting down after school every day because their nervous system's overwhelmed or fried from the day, it then can break down for you some specific weights ways to support that unique child. Does this kid need to have somebody to sit and talk about their day with or do they need some like quiet calm before they're ready to do anything, do homework, chat with you, share anything. So really helps you then like customize that Anytime we're seeing that like this is something that over and over and over we're seeing as a pattern. It is so beneficial to get curious. I think we've swung the pendulum too far where we're like getting too curious too often. We're like every little thing, we're like, well, what's the cause of this? And it's like, yeah, that kid was.

A (28:48)

Tired and not that deep with my teenagers wheelchair.

B (28:52)

Yeah, exactly, it's not that deep.

A (28:54)

And now for a quick break. I know that feeding journeys are so fraught because of course the most important thing with your baby is taking care of them and feeding them and you're exhausted and then you're hearing noise from everybody else about exactly what you're supposed to do or not do. And it can be incredibly overwhelming. And I really love the brand Bobbi for just this reason. I would say that in my mom groups, infant feeding is one of the most controversial and emotional topics because of how people feel so strongly about how they're feeding. And Bobbi supports every feeding journey. So whether you're exclusively breastfeeding, but you need a can in the pantry for an emergency, or you're doing combo feeding or you're doing exclusive formula feeding. Bobbi has your back. So you can choose from one of Bobbi's clean label certified modeled after breast milk formulas. So they're easy on tummies. The ingredients are really good. You can choose from their award Winning organic original infant formula, their whole milk recipes, or their new organic whole milk recipe, the first of its kind. And with over 600,000 parents trusting Bobby to nourish their babies with high quality premium infant formulas, you can trust Bobi. So if you're looking for a formula and want to try Bobi, they have an exclusive offer just for RGH listeners. First visit www.hibobie.com hi Bobby. To find the recipe that fits your journey and then apply the promo code humans to get an additional 10% off your first purchase. That's h I b o b b I e.com all right, so Great Wolf Lodge is less like a vacation and more an adventure for the whole family. So think about how can I get everybody so entertained and so busy and so exhausted and so sleepy all in one place? And that is great. Wh you basically go with your pack, see what I did there. And splash away in an indoor water park where it's always 84 degrees. They have a massive wave pool, they have a lazy river, they have tons of water slides for your pack to enjoy together. And the fun does not stop there. So get ready to explore and play at an adventure packed attraction. They have like a live action game that takes place throughout the lodge to the Northern Lights Arcade. They have a bunch of great dining options. They have complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties. And again, all of this is under one roof. So you get your party on, you're busy from the minute everybody opens their eyes until they hit the pillow. And there are 23 lodges across the country, so you're always just a short drive away from one of these adventures. Book your stay today at greatwolf.com G-R-E-A-T-W-O-L-F.com and strengthen the pack. Okay, so you know how I feel about just the changes that happen to hair after you have a baby, when you're at that perimenopause stage in life or just generally speaking as you get older. I like really like to think about all the different ways to help hair grow and feel really healthy and shiny and thick. So I have more to offer. With Live Conscious, they have a mission to create simple, effective wellness solutions that elevate your everyday life one conscious choice at a time. And they have this product called Hair Lavee Hair La Vie Clinical, which is different from other hair growth supplements on the market because it has a high potency multivitamin with ingredients like us +SAW, Palmetto and tokagaya. So a lot of hair supplements don't disclose the source or quantity of their saw palmetto. But live conscious uses the highest recommended dose, and they're the only brand verified for quality and potency. So visit liveconscious.com today and make the switch to a hair vitamin that actually works. Use the code humans at checkout. That's L I V E C O N S C I o u s.com liveconscious.com and grab yourself some hair la vie.

B (33:38)

And so really, for us, we're looking at, like, when it's a pattern, when we're seeing that this is happening over and over on repeat. Then I'm going to start to get curious about it and see, like, what's causing the dysregulation? And is there a need we can meet proactively throughout the day or reactively, like, right when a kid comes home?

A (33:57)

Can you give us some of the categories so that people can start kind.

B (34:01)

Of thinking about it? We actually, in our big kids book, outlined the five, like, foundational things of dysregulation we have. We call them the facts. F A C T S Food. When was the last time this child ate food? Are they on, like, a sugar crash or they're just hangry activity? And this is where we look at the nine sensory systems of, like, is it visual stimulation?

A (34:25)

Are.

B (34:25)

This would be somebody who, like, really notices clutter and can be overwhelmed by clutter. I'm the human in my household, making piles everywhere. And my husband's the one who's like, for the love, can you put something in a drawer? And then, like, sound sensitivity. We are looking at those five senses we often hear of. And then there's four others. Proprioception, which lets our body know where it is in relationship to other things. Kids with lower proprioceptive awareness often need a lot of big body play and movement and kind of heavy work to know where their body ends and something else begins. We have our vestibular system, which is responsible for our movement and balance. This kind of keeps us up upright. It's located in your inner ear. You access this with things like spinning or going on the swings or dipping upside down. For folks who are vestibular sensitive, you would get motion sickness with some of these things. We have our interoceptive system, which is those. It's those internal cues that let us know, like, I'm hungry, I'm tired, I have to go to the bathroom, my heart's beating fast. Kind of cues you into what's happening inside. And then our neuroceptive System, which is our like danger system. I call it our spidey sense. It lets you know when something feels off in the room. Like if you walk into a room and maybe somebody isn't fighting anymore, but they were fighting and you can like feel that energy. And our neuroceptive, sensitive kids read all the non verbal cues in like a heightened state. They're really good at reading those cues. So we have activity and that's where we're looking at. Like are they overstimulated? Are they understimulated? We have C for connection. When was the last time they received connection in the way that they feel connected? That this isn't one size fits all in terms of how connection happens. We call it a connection blueprint in the book and figuring out like how does your child receive connection? T is tune out. Do they just need a minute to just be. And I imagine like as a mom there are times where I'm like, I just want to lay in a dark room where no one's talking to me or touching me or needs anything from me. Like, can we give our kids that for a minute and then s is sleep. How tired are they? How did they sleep last night? Or are we just like close to bedtime and now is not the time to have this big discussion or really any challenging discussion because they just need to go to bed?

A (36:50)

Yeah. Those are such great easy ways to sort of check in so that we know kind of how to set things up for the best possible interactions with the understanding that regardless they're going to be some tantrums.

B (37:07)

A hundred percent. It's like also sometimes they are going to be tired or hangry and you're just in it, you know. And it's like, great, let's watch a show and chill and not do hard things right now.

A (37:18)

Yeah. I think one of the things that's low hanging fruit or feels like low hanging fruit until you're in it is the. Those like bookends of food and sleep for sure. Because the other stuff can get complex.

B (37:32)

Yeah.

A (37:33)

And depends on the individual for sure. But we all need food and we all need sleep. And so if you want to set your up yourself up for, you know, some success.

B (37:46)

Totally. Less dysregulation, more regulation maybe.

A (37:50)

Yeah.

B (38:05)

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

A (38:10)

Individuals on the show may have a.

B (38:12)

Direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.