← Raising Good Humans
Raising Good Humans
The Tell: A Conversation About Healing and Re-Parenting Oneself with Amy Griffin
00:53:09
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The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
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Welcome to Raising good humans. I'm Dr. Liza Pressman, and first, let me just say happy, happy holidays. Happy New Year. Happy all of it. I'm so excited to step into the New Year with all of you. Today's episode is with my dear friend Amy Griffin, who's actually an American venture capitalist, but you might know her as the massive best selling author of the book the Tell, which was an Oprah Book Club pick. And here's the thing, just a warning. This episode is heavy because this is about her experience remembering abuse from her adolescence. So we had this conversation and I also am going to have an article on Substack that kind of goes through prevention and protection for kids when it comes to predators, because that's something that I often get asked about and I want to make sure that I provide you with information. But this is a different kind of conversation. It's about her experience and naming what she's gone through so that she can help other people do the same. Of course you can find me on substack. Drelizapressman.substack.com I'll definitely write this article, and obviously I do articles every week that try to summarize the show and the main points or pull out something that I've really been wanting to talk about. It's also a place where you can ask me questions and I can write articles that are more along the lines of Q and A, which I can also do when you DM me questions on Instagram aisinggoodhumanspodcast. So hopefully in this new year, I'll be getting lots of questions answered. In the meantime, I really hope you enjoy this episode and I recognize that it's a little bit harder to listen to and I want to make sure that you're prepared. And I would say this is not an appropriate episode to listen to with children. I told you, I read this book when the fire started in LA and our power went out and I was like, all right, this is perfect. And then I was like, I didn't want the power to come back on because I just didn't want to be interrupted because it was so incredible. But that's like a weird feeling when it's about a person who's going through. I. I can't help. Even though your book isn't centered around trauma, I couldn't help but see your book in this. Like, here's this beautiful thing, here's this beautiful parenting thing. Here's this beautiful woman, here's this beautiful Friend. But here is, how did this. How was this. How could this happen to her? So it was like. And why am I reading about it? Like, it was so. It was such a. And I couldn't stop.
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A
It's so interesting, right? Because so many people told me that and that I had. Well, I. I couldn't have conviction around the book itself and the writing, but I had such conviction around my story, and I was living in it, so I never really stopped. And I'm glad that I didn't stop to think about, oh, my gosh, what if I've given my book to friends and they don't like it and I'm asking them to participate or support me? And I. And I think that's why when I. You know, truthfully, honestly, every part of this process has felt so incredibly authentic that I actually was using the book not as a way to say, do you? Like, I've never thought. I never thought about, do you. Does someone like this book? It was really more of this process that I went through, which I remember I was saying to you, I started in watching you at your book party of the telling, and it was this true, authentic telling that I'd been through every step of the way. And honestly, I could not wait to come on with you because now that the book has been out, the idea.
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B
Like, that you would hand over the book, and you're not looking for approval, you're not looking for people to be like, this is amazing. It's so clearly not what your purpose was. Which is so funny because in so much of your life, you've been. And you talk about praise and like, I just think about, oh, my God, you probably can't imagine more praise. Who. Who could get more praise than you're getting for this book? Except you weren't seeking that in writing this book. And I feel like so much of your life, you were seeking that praise. And it's like such an ironic, interesting, almost scary thing to know. Like, you put this out there for a completely different reason, and now you have to receive all this praise.
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A
I couldn't be having a better conversation at any moment in time because I'm dealing with these beautiful conversations. I can only say that when people had said to me, oh, be careful, a book, book tour is draining, or this, that, and the other, I have felt so the opposite. I cannot tell you that every conversation I've had has made me not feel alone, has made me feel connected. I wrote this book first for myself now never knowing that anyone would ever read it. And I Think that's what's most interesting is that my husband came in in a very difficult moment and said, you know, do what you do best. Here's a journal, go sit down and write. And so it was the. The book is called the Tell, but the telling, which is through my parenting and talking about my parenting and the telling is actually what I've done in releasing it out into the world. So in terms of getting praise, yes, I will say, isn't it fascinating that when you absolutely let go of needing validation from the world the minute you do. I've been giving myself permission and I've been through this process of writing this book. I've been parenting myself. Yes, I've been parenting and I. And in the notion of like breaking it down, I couldn't wait to talk about the idea that not only do I relearn how to. And you know, my children were still. I say they're young enough. But I'm so happy that there was a reparenting of how to parent my children. Also the parenting that I was doing with my mother. So going upwards all the way through the generations down to the fact that I haven't spoken about and I know you will love this, seeing the pictures of your grandfather that my mother, a week or two before the book came out, drove to Oklahoma to go and tell my 97 year old grandfather. And no one, I've never talked about that, but it was this understanding that my mom, who also had her own story, needed to go share with him and tell. And I had mandated that I said it is not my decision. You can decide if you tell when you tell him, how you tell him, if you don't tell him, he is the most wonderful human. And then there was this decision. It would think it was a growth, it was growth on in my family's part and, and definitely like for me and my mother to be able to have it, have her say, I'm gonna go tell. It was an unraveling, it was a telling birth to myself and then telling to my family and then to telling them the friends closest to me. And so it became an understanding of telling. And if anything I used your parenting books and what you've written and what I've learned. And I think life is a combination of all parts of you. And so that's why today was really, truly important to me. So I'm really grateful.
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B
I was thinking about when because in framing the book, in framing everything nowadays, like ever since I started to have to have so many conversations about the five principles of parenting, relationship reflection, regulation, rules repair. And like all of that is how we build resilience, rules repair, using it over and over.
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A
I was finishing my book after I.
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Read yours and I was thinking like, you embodied every one of those principles that is not to your point. Like reparenting you parenting your kids, repairing with your parents. Like everything is so. And I'm not suggesting repairing something that was broken. I mean, truly just like connecting, reconnecting in a way, like the I'm jumping around now and we'll get into some actual linear conversation. But I was thinking, I love that.
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Because I think that's so beautiful. No one's ever said that to me because people think, oh, everything was. And that's again, where this is not. This is not a novel that wasn't all broken.
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Yeah.
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And then it became perfect. And we don't like the word perfect anyway. But it was not that. It was the fact that I actually came from a beautiful family and parents who deeply love me, which is actually something that I haven't gotten to really talk about is the fact that I think that it was the parenting at home, the loving relationship that I went home to every day that did keep me safe, that allowed for me to be alive and to be here today.
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A
Well, I was going to say for the listener, too, just to ground them over speaking.
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All right, thank you.
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A
And know just the idea that we're talking around this. And yes, I wrote a book about. You know, on one hand, I wrote a book that is about trauma. I talk about trauma, deep trauma that I ensued from at the hands of sexual abuse for many years by a teacher in middle school that I never disclosed to anyone. But on the other hand, what I. And then I. That part of the book is also that I've written this crime thriller that I was. Didn't realize I was living in. And that's why you said you, you know, you wanted to keep reading and you wanted to keep reading. Well, try to recognize too, I was writing this as it was going on. So I. I too wanted the answer. I wanted the answer and I wanted to tie it up with a bow. And I wanted to be able to go to my children and tell them that I'd solved this mystery such that I can say I'm the perfect parent. And this is what happens when you do the right thing. And I wasn't getting that. And so I was trying to sort of do two things at once, which was to solve this crime novel. Crime mystery wasn't a novel. It happened. And to solve this mystery at the same time that I was trying to take care of my family and myself and do these. The reparenting and then, you know, re becoming and the surrender and all the things that were happening. And I think that the gift to me around the idea that I could not pursue criminal justice at this person because of the statute of limitations loophole was actually. I can't say it was a gift because I. I'm not glad it happened, but it did. It did. I did go in and refocus of how I really was going to move forward, and that was really only investigating myself. And. And so many things have happened in just in my relationship with my children. I mean, the idea of my children, my family, that was really the catalyst of a lot of this, was that my daughters. This is the funniest story too. One of the stories was recently my daughter, who was the one that was 10 at the time, who's just like totally five steps ahead of me.
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She.
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In the book, I'll tell you, in the book, she comes to me and says, mom, we really don't know you. You know, we want to really know you. We know we think you're perfect, but we want to know you and understand you and. And we don't know who you are. And it was a very difficult moment. I went to my room, slammed the door. Trauma's like, what just happened that was a moment of me recognizing that I needed to either listen to what she was saying or just keep going as I was. And if I was going to keep doing that, then there's going to be problems. So I, I, I listened to that thread of that 10 year old. That's where she was parenting me. But it's funny because she came to me and said, mom, I have a notice on my phone if you get a bad review. And I said, well, I haven't read any reviews because I just, I can't take the reviews in. It's too hard for me. That's not why I wrote it. Said, well, I, I get one and you got this review. And I looked at it and it said, there's no way that a 10 year old would have said any of these words. And so I found her and I looked her up and I, I, I don't know, she DMed or whatever she did. And I said, I absolutely am that little girl who's now I'm a 16. And I wrote, I said exactly what my mom said in the book. And I told this woman she should take it down. It was just like another part of the process, right? It was another part of the believing. It was another part of what we've gone through together as a family. Family was just, it was insanely beautiful.
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B
Well, it's interesting that you brought that up because I was of course thinking as I was like, okay, well, how will I have a cohesive conversation with Amy about this? And we'll start with relationship. And I wanted you to tell the story of, I think this moment of recognizing how committed you were to this relationship, but also, so the story of your daughter, which you just told, but maybe we can expand and then also your relationship with your husband because his response to me, there are so many moments where you're just like, relationships are supposed to be safe. And you like keep having these moments where you're real, like you're watching in real time this, this ability to keep moving forward because you have a safe harbor and we need a safe harbor. And I was like kind of blown away by, by that safe harbor, allowing you the safety of. I cannot imagine having been through what you went through, having gone through what you went through, and then to have your daughter after, you're like, I've spent my life being perfect to get to this point of being the perfect mother to have you called out, so, so beautiful.
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A
And thank you for also saying, because you're right, this safe harbor in John, you know, I can say that My daughter was the catalyst. But not to give John too much credit, because he's gotten so much credit. And what's fascinating is you're exactly right. Because in that moment when I slammed the door and went to my room, John said to me, what are you solving for in the relationship with them? Are you solving for the relationship? Are you solving for a sense of control? And he pulled that thread in me that I maybe would never have pulled. And maybe that is going back to my conservatives or Southern upbringing from, you know, in the 80s, the 80s in Texas, which I loved where I'm from. But I have my certain ways as I talk about it in my, the book the salt and pepper must go around the table together at all times. Now I'm getting more comfortable with the salt might go around the table without, without the pepper. And those were just things that were ingrained in me and were part of the culture. And whether it was that or it was on that, plus my trauma, I think John started to help me pull at those threads to understand, you know, to look at my parenting style and recognize what, what are you solving for? The control factor. He was the one that was noticing the control in my parenting style. And I love to say this too, because the night after the book launched and Oprah did this, ah, surprise, Oprah, like came on stage and it was amazing and surreal and still is. And I kind of still wake up and think, did that happen? But I went up to my 12 year old's room and I said, julian, you know, I realized you were seven when I wrote this book. And he said, mom, that was great. It was just great.
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So great.
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And he was smiling ear to ear and I'd really never had such in depth conversations with him about the book. And then I said, but how did you feel about all of it? He said, you know, I never realized you had that conversation with my sisters about wanting to know you better. And you know, I never, I never knew that that story took place. And I realized I'd never told him. And even in the writing of the book of the five years, because, you know, he's going on with his life and I'm processing as I'm writing. But then I said to him, well, Julian, do you, what do you think about the book? Would you think about maybe reading it? Because you were also too young to read at the time. You hadn't, you couldn't read the book, but you might want to read it. And he turned to me and he just casually, in the way that we know as parenting Said, oh, yeah, Mom, I'd love to read it, but I think I'm gonna do it when I have a book report due so I can kill two birds with one stone. And I'll do, you know, I'll do a book report and I'll get an egg. Is it your book? And it'll be great. And I think that I'm hoping that you would agree that that's a sign of sort of maturity in our relationship, that we've gotten to a place where I was like, great, perfect, yes. Only need it from you.
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B
We have the heavy weight of conversations we have to have with our children and what we're going to say. Exactly. And all of these things. And all that matters is that he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel, I feel safe enough to have this conversation and also to tell you I'm going to kill two birds with one stone. It's not as, it's. He's not ruminating. He's like. Because he's allowed to just like, this is just out there. It's amazing.
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A
And I also said to him in that moment, I said, had people talk to you about my book? And he said, my friends asked me what it's about. And I said, it's about memory and, you know, your life. And I said to him, and it was this opportunity for me to say, which I feel like this is the crux of all of it, right? Is I said to him, julian, you can go and say anything you want to anyone about the book. You can tell him exactly how you feel. You, there's nothing that's off limits. You can talk to them about any part of the story that you feel that makes you comfortable. If it's uncomfortable, you can tell them it makes you uncomfortable. And so we were able to have that conversation too, which was just amazing.
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B
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A
I laugh only because the same night that I went to, I went to see one of the, one of the girls and I said, how'd you think the night went? She said, it was great, it was great. But now you gotta live by those words. And so right back in it, you know, just right back in the throes of parenting of like that push, pull of what's important and what are you solving for? And you know, I think that my kids, I have asked them, I, I asked Gracie, I said, what has changed? Have you noticed in the last five years? And she said, well, you become a lot less reactionary. So when I slam doors to get your attention, you don't come upstairs. So you, to have a conversation with me wouldn't even say yell because I, I was never a yeller anyway. I didn't yell at my kids, but it, it hurts me less. I can also recognize that in many ways, 13, 14, 15, 16 year old slamming a door is also what a 13, 14, 15 or 16 year old probably is meant to be doing in that moment in their life. And it's not a product of something that I have caused or a friction in our relationship. So I see so much more. It could also just be with the age of my kids and maturity of myself. And I think that was part of the, you know, this process of coming forward with all of this is like a maturity of confidence in myself and being able to give myself permission. And I use permission, compassion a lot. Like a lot of things can be solved with permission, mission, compassion. And, and in parenting, a lot of it can be solved with humor. I mean we use a lot of humor, a lot of humor these days and you know, a lot of humor. More. I write in the book about sort of my daughter's outfits, like things coming in little packages and I can't tell if they're a skirt or a shirt. And I used to like panic and feel with dread and now I, I've come to really understand that in paying and moving forward that, that what my children wear is not a sign of reflection of who they are and maybe it's their reflection of who they want to be that day or that night or whatever it is. But that, that, that's also not a measure of safety and it's also not a value. They're, that they're based on depending on how short the skirt is. Right. Or how clunky the boots.
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B
Right. And you know, I wonder in thinking about like how you Regulate yourself because I think you found a lifetime of regulating yourself in a way that maybe looked super healthy and adaptive but was hurting you. And now are you finding that in those moments when you're challenged, like with the, you know, you could see a world where you see those, Nobody can see us, but I'm, I'm imagining like a 2 inch skirt. But when you see those things, like, but like you see those things and they could trigger and trigger. We don't use lightly because it's been overused, but these are officially appropriate ways of thinking about how one could be triggered. That you have to reckon with raising adolescent girls. You have to reckon with raising adolescent girls and also regulate yourself so that you're raising them and not the version of them that you experienced, thank God. But also how do you find that you've shifted how you regulate? How do you figure out what feelings emerge in you to decide, like, how am I responding? Is it, you know, am I over correcting? Am I, you know, what happens for you? Are you doing sort of like just letting go of this?
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A
I think that I love that question. I haven't been asked that question, but I love that question because, you know, I'm still very much in process too. You know, there's that saying people always say, like, big kids, big problems, little kids, or little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. I don't know that I really believe that because I think it's just like going through these phases and I'm, and I'm so grateful for the learnings of each of them. But when I hear of these young parents and they're talking about whether it's like potty training or whatever it is as though the world is going to end, I can, I almost want to do that old Texas saying of saying, oh, bless your heart, because. But then at the same time, there are real things that I'm dealing with at the, at the ages of my children. And so what I've kind of learned to accept and what the book also like, one word that sticks out to be all over the COVID is control or lack of control. No matter how many measures you put in place as a parent, you just, that's the beauty of parenting, is you do not have control.
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B
And okay, so then this, this sort of feels like a natural question, but maybe not. But how then? Because I think about, I use a word that is just because it starts with an R. But I actually mean, you know, rules, but I actually mean for it as boundaries and limits. But truly, when you've experienced Abuse. Have you. Do you struggle with figuring out what your boundaries and limits are like?
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A
Boundaries? What are boundaries? No, very much. Very much to the point that it's definitely a work in progress. And we have a mutual friend who always comes to me to say, Amy, boundaries. But I've also placed a lot of friends in my life who have great boundaries, which I think has really helped me. And sometimes. And I watch them, my children have also been incredible with me of telling me, mom, you don't need to do that for that person, or this doesn't need to be said, or you don't need to tell them why, you know, I'm. I can't come to the spring dance or whatever it is. I'm definitely working on my boundaries and I'm working on it with my children and my husband, but I think boundaries are something we can always work on. I would say in particular, I'm having a hard time right now just around the idea that this book is so meaningful to me and I would like to have coffee with every single person that's written me to tell me their story, but I can't. And I can't. I also, like, physically can't take it all on. And so it could be, you know, depending on the time of the day, when a text comes in from someone to tell me their story, or someone from my past who's an incredible friend who I love so much, who I hadn't seen in 20 years from college, who pops in the middle of something, like, while I'm watching one of my children play sports, or it could be at night while I'm brushing my teeth. It also depends on when they catch me.
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B
Right.
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A
Pops in and then how. How I have the time to. To respond. But it's been particularly stressful to me because I want to, like, help. I want to make people feel seen, and I want people to know that they are seen. But I just hope that. And some of them, I think it's fascinating to see. I think it's interesting to see the boundaries that people have when they will write and say, I don't expect you to write back, but it feels so good for me to be able to say it. Like, to tell. Yes. And that's one of the most important things that I. The takeaways of all of this. And I write a little bit about it, but was in the idea of making sure that you know the person on the other end of the telling. So when I was going to tell people my story, you know, in particular friends. And I'd have to think about where they were in their life and what was happening in their life, such that you might add to their weight, their load, and. And not. And then they wouldn't be able to hold it. And then you would worry about them. And just. So I think that there's been a lot of trying to understand where people were, as you see in the book. You know, I go to a teacher and my daughter's school and think I'm going to be able to tell, not knowing where this person is. Only find out the teachers had the same and never told anyone. So that to me was, you know, as I was writing and taking notes, that was a turning point for me that I've never talked about too. And the idea that it's so prevalent, it's so common, and not only what happened to me, but just the idea that we keep these secrets and we put them in the back of our brain and then we just can't hold on to them because they're too painful. And you would be someone to be able to speak much better than I can to it. The first manuscript of the book was called Believe Me because. Because at that moment in time, I was writing to believe myself, never knowing anyone would ever see it. But once I came to the point that I could never. I could no longer write, that I could no longer say believe me. And so that wasn't honest. And so the title very much changed to Let me tell you, but do know that I have read. I tried to read every single book on memory and trauma and everything in your field to make sense of all of this, only to recognize I could only listen to my instincts and just believe myself without. I don't have any data or science or I don't have any of it. I just have my experience.
- [33:08]
B
But what I'm noticing also is like, the shift from believe me to tell. One is controlling how other people receive you and feel, and the other is like, I don't. It doesn't matter. Like, I'm not gonna depend on how you feel to tell. I'm gonna tell. And then you get to do you. And to me, that growth is like, exquisite. And now your kids see that. That the burden isn't. I have to control how you feel. Especially for someone who wants everyone to feel so good and people who don't know you well, that might be.
- [33:49]
A
This might be one of the most cathartic, beautiful moments in the tour. And I'm so glad that we're having this conversation now because it's like, I've come out of this washing machine as I talk about, you know, that it was like so beautiful and the colors were so bright, vibrant, and the telling felt so real. But. But I turned something that was inherently horrific into this beautiful. You know, from a tragedy to this tapestry is what I've sometimes thought of, like this tapestry of friendships, relationships, of not needing anything in telling the story. And you're right, so you are exactly right. It was one of those pain points.
- [34:34]
B
And there's something, I mean, just to close that loop that is to me, repairs that you threaded this tapestry, this whole thing of like, nothing broken.
- [34:45]
A
You know, when I do think about life and I think about how the blessings of life of like the relationships of the people that held me up, because they were, they were their friends that were literally behind me, like lifting me up, just guiding me. And you know, that's why I remember when I told you that I was writing and then in sending you the book, and I could not presume that you would like the book, read the book, or that it would matter, but it was looking. I felt as though when I was giving the book out to friends, to people in my life that I cared about, that it was a gift to me. It was like they were doing me a favor. That's how I felt truly. And I still feel that way. So I'm coming to grips with this so wild understanding of. And that that's part of my Southern roots. That's part of like growing up in a family where we took care of customers. And that was. We were a customer service business. My mother also is like the most giving, casserole making human on the planet. So I was taught, you know, I was, that's how I was raised. But I truly use part of my past in that way from my family to move through this book process. And, and, and you're right, like when you use the word resilience, I mean, you know, people have said to me, they'll say sometimes like, oh, you're brave in doing this. And the word bravery has never once entered my mind, but vulnerable vulnerability. And if you want to talk about parenting, the change in my relationship with my children to say, be able to say, look how vulnerable, like things will happen in your life. And when you put yourself out there and you're honest about it and you're vulnerable about it, there is. So there's, there's far more power than anything you could ever imagine. And so I mean, the resilience too, going back to resilience, I, I do, I can now Say that through vulnerability. I have been very resilient in writing this book and putting it out into the world.
- [36:34]
B
Thinking about your children every time something in their life happens. Having witnessed you coming out as in this vulnerable way and seeing that, like, all the fears that anybody would have about putting this into the world, like being held by people who love you and finding out that you're so worthy, even after sharing something that might have been so deeply buried because it might conflict with being perfect. It's like a gift for your kids forever. Like, what a different trajectory. Witnessing that you get to live in this world as yourself and be loved is like.
- [37:22]
A
About three days into the book tour, I'd come back from one of the events, and then my two of my closest friends were in town. They said, come by quickly. We're having dessert, we're having dinner. Come have dessert with us. And I remember thinking, well, I should go to bed because I'm in the middle of this wild book tour, which is so incredible.
- [37:38]
B
And.
- [37:38]
A
But I'm in hair makeup, so I might as well go out and see my friends and have dessert. So I ran out and I got to this restaurant, and I got. I walked into the restaurant, and there were, like, four tables by chance at night, and I saw people's head swing around, and I thought, what have I done? What have I done? And it was this real moment of reckoning for me where I realized, oh, my goodness, I. And then I thought, oh, I can decide. I can either be sad and walk over to the table to be my friends, or I can start crying. I don't know. I don't know what it was supposed to do. I don't know what supposed to should, but instead I just thought, oh, no, you're just yourself. And I smiled and I walked to the table. And then I felt like that was almost like a new beginning in my life.
- [38:22]
B
And now for a quick break. I love Jones Road. If you are old enough to be listening to this podcast, you have to get Jones Road Miracle Balm. It is a miracle in a balm. I use the natural coverage one. It's got a glow, but it's not a color. It's sort of like you just put it all over, and all of a sudden you just look dewier, but not too dewy. And it's so rich and delicious. And I feel like any makeup I put on over it glides on better. Jones Road Beauty is the most amazing company, and it's a multitasker product, this miracle bomb. If you're in a rush. Look no further. You don't need a brush, you don't need a routine. It's just your fingers and go. Bobbi Brown is queen. So of course she figured this out. And of course all the products are good for your skin. These are skin loving ingredients that are nourishing instead of clogging. There's no caking. It just looks and feels so natural. And there's no garbage in any of this. Bobbi Brown makes everything so beautifully. There are no phthalates, no sulfates, no petroleum. The list goes on and on because clean beauty is a no brainer in 2025. This holiday season, simplify your routine with makeup that's clean, strategic and multifunctional. And don't miss out on their limited edition holiday sets. They won't be here for long and once they're gone, they're gone. Also, as a treat for our listeners, you'll get a free cool gloss on your first purchase. When you use the Code Humans at checkout. Just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use the Code Humans at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show and just tell them that raising good humans sent you. So I'm going to tell you about a way you can feed your family at home without any planning, any prepping or any exhausting cleanup. Does that sound like you're living in a George Jetson universe? Because Suvi is a smart countertop oven and a flexible meal delivery service, the Sous Vide S U V I E kitchen robot has a built in refrigeration so you can set up dinner in the morning and then Suvie keeps it cold until it's time to cook so you don't even have to be home to start it. What? Isn't that mind blowing? So you can save actual hours each week and they have a tap to cook technology so you prep dinner in minutes. You just load the meals into the sous vide cooking pans, tap the card to your appliance and set what time you want the food to be ready and then voila, it's ready. If you want, they have chef crafted meals that are delivered right to your door and so you could choose from 50 meals with new options added each week. I'm partial to salmon and I like to air fry it and the sous vide kitchen robot fits on the counter but it has like 15 cooking modes so you can air fry, you can slow cook, you can do anything. So give yourself a break like this. Feels like you're getting home cooked meal but not all the work that goes into it. You're saving time. It's so cool. And the fact that you can kind of refrigerate until you're ready to cook and not be there for it. That alone. Yes. Please go to suvi.com humans to get 16 free meals. That's s u v I e.com humans so there were two parts of the book that I don't know. I just feel like these are absolutely non sequitur questions, but we'll weave them together somehow. And I think that trust is what's bringing it up for me. One is, do you think that and, and, and this other part is like your instincts and like where your nervous system kind of takes you. This is so weird. We might have to cut it out. But I've been thinking about it.
- [42:13]
A
Let's cut it. Let's go.
- [42:16]
B
Like. So John experienced horrible trauma. Do you think that somehow you both, on a cellular level, like, do you think that your nervous systems were like, we will be able to hold each other safe. Like we can, we. We can see something even if it's unspoken. And one was spoken about, I imagine, and one wasn't. But do you think there was like some under, like deep understanding that was not, you know, like you can walk into a room and everybody could be dressed in the same look, exactly the same dress, exactly the same. But like your nervous system kind of knows.
- [42:57]
A
Can I. I think this might be the most intuitive question that I've been asked and it's the question that I have pondered a million times in the surreal nature of the threads of things that have happened. And I can tell you why. With John, there is an absolute yes, we. I don't, I can't actually align how we connected, but it was cosmic. I write it out in the book. It was a yes from the very beginning. Immediately it was just that. And, and then there's just been this lifting up, you know, and building and connecting and working, working on our relationship. But let me tell you, there are. I could, I could have a full. We could do seven episodes, maybe 10 of people that have come to me in my life that are very, very close to me that you and I both know that have come to say. I have never told the story to anyone, not even my partner or spouse. I understand my experience of how I ended up where I did, but. And it's such a different conversation than the parenting conversation, like the parenting to my children. But. But at the same time, you know, it goes back to that whole idea of. Of trust, like when someone says, how could you not tell? Well, I was told I wouldn't be loved. I was told that everything that I understood to be real in this world as a child, my childlike brain, that I would not be loved, that I would be cast out. And I mean, I don't know. I think that's genetic.
- [44:20]
B
When you will you tell us you are loved? But will you tell us what your father said when you told him? Because I think that was like finding out. That was repair to me in curious because I was like, you were loved. But what did he say?
- [44:40]
A
You know, I remember the pause before. And he stood up to say it. And I was telling my parents the story. And John, as we were talking was so incredible because he's such a force. Like he's a presence when he's in the room because he's just a big person and never said a word. And I. It was like the most loving way of just sitting there next to me. I could feel this like rock. But he did not say a word. And when my father stood up and I thought, I don't know which way this will go because this is so hard. And he turned and said, we might have missed the first part of your life, but we're not going to miss the second second. And it was that. And then it was, you know, I. John literally writes me notes. It says, you are saving your loved many days a week and sticks it on my coffee cup. And he's been doing that for a very, very, very long time. So it was long before this process started. And. And I think the process I would say to people, anyone listening that has something they want to tell or maybe doesn't realize if they know. You know, I didn't know why I did the things that I did. There were certain ways behavior, like hating a crowded elevator. So if you're ever with me in a crowded elevator, I'm getting out. But, you know, I realized that it was only. I could only do the work for myself. It's like you going back to parenting. I could only parent myself. I can't go do my kids homework and then they're not going to thrive in school and they have the in school essay. And so the writing of this book was the unraveling of all of that. It was the doing the. I don't like the work, which I'm sure in your profession, like the work is so esoteric. What does the work mean? But I did a lot of work, whether it was walking or processing or writing or, you know, all the things I did. I just did a lot of work on myself of like honesty. And, and so I, I was able to do the work in the writing so that I could do the in class essay.
- [46:28]
B
Yeah, you sure did. And I think that you're, you know this. I'll say it anyway, but that is why, like, that is the beautiful parenting is nothing to do with the kids.
- [46:42]
A
Nothing to do with the kids. Like, all parenting classes should be just about parents working on because then they are just. They just model how you behave and how you react to other people and the relationships that you have. I mean, this is my advice because this is what I'm doing and I could be completely wrong. But we, we talk about modeling a lot. Like, just if you just model good behavior and whatever that looks like to you. So I hope I'm modeling good behavior, behavior, trying.
- [47:08]
B
Can you imagine, like, I mean, I don't know if you should imagine this because why should you have to experience this thought? But if one could imagine that every time our kids would hesitate to tell us something because they would worry about their worthiness changing in our eyes, that they would know nothing they say to us, nothing that's happened is going to change. That is, you can't teach them that by saying those words. You have to live that. And you did. You do.
- [47:42]
A
Well, that's all that I can do because I can't control them and I can't make things perfect, and I'm not perfect. And so that's the whole piece of it. I hope when I wake up and this experiment is over with my children, in whatever form that takes, that I can say I was vulnerable with them. And you are so right. It's this idea, and I've seen this, by the way. It's a pause. It's, it's, It's a pause to then tell me something. It's a little flicker and I can't give it. I don't even. I can't think of a specific experience example right now. But I've had it happen now many times with my children where there's like a little pause of that they might lean in or they might lean out and then they lean in. And there's still moments where I see them lean out, but I'm seeing the pause as a reflection that they're thinking about that they're about to tell me something. By the way, by the way, do you know that it was in, gosh, when did you start your parenting classes? You were probably doing it 18 years ago.
- [48:43]
B
Seven.
- [48:44]
A
Okay, 2007. Because I remember.
- [48:47]
B
Isn't that 18 years ago?
- [48:49]
A
I just remember having this feeling around you. Well, I'm past that part. So that's why I was saying also in my story, that the idea that I understand that busy parent of, you know, my children were at a point where I always liken it to the idea that I was making sure they weren't falling in the swimming pool. Like, you're. There's a certain 10 years of your life where you're on guard for stairs, electrical outlets, swimming pools, anything with water. You know, a coat. Like, they would leave the house without a coat and pick a freak. Like, all those things. And so my brain was in a place that probably wasn't going to address the things that I had going on. And so I've come to kind of understand that I had more space to really. And also, I. It was also Covid. Result in the middle of the COVID The. The vid or whatever you could want to call.
- [49:35]
B
Right, right.
- [49:35]
A
So there was nothing but stillness for me in that moment.
- [49:39]
B
That's really interesting, because if I think about it, there's something incredibly adaptive about your brain making the decision to not pull this out while you're in the throes of trying to make sure that you have, you know, like, nobody's going to fall in the pool. And then this sort of wisdom to have the space to say, I'm ready to open up now, because you're right. It would be really hard to figure out, which is why it's so sensitive for you to think about, like, on the receiving end, if somebody's hearing this story, like, to know what you're getting into and to be ready for it, because you might not be in a place where you can receive it.
- [50:20]
A
Stay in the light. Yeah, stay in the light. Like, stay in your truth. Like that. Isn't that the essential parenting rule? Stay in your light, stay in your truth. And it's not even be nice, be kind. It's stay in the light. And, you know, if there's anything that's happened that has been what has gone on, it's been this process, because it wasn't always light filled. It was not light built. As I was writing, it was not light filled. It was. It was a mixture. It was, as we talk about, both in knowing I was going to put this book out, I was living up to my neck in stress. Like, on the day before the book came out, I thought, am I making the biggest mistake in my life? And then I Went in and I stayed in the light. Stay in the light. Go back to your truth. It doesn't matter. That's why you wrote it. That was the validation forget. Oh, yeah, you forgot. You got this phone call from Oprah in October when you thought you'd given up all you'd already. The book was coming out and the publisher had sent it, and you get this phone call that says, I wasn't even looking for validation anymore. You know, it's like the world just. Just stay in your light.
- [51:25]
B
You're just like. You're easy to love. You are easy to love. Woman.
- [51:29]
A
I'm so grateful. I'll just say I will always remember the moment of standing at your book party when I gave you a little glimmer of my writing to say. But it was just in that moment I was able to tell you.
- [51:40]
B
All right.
- [51:40]
A
It was.
- [51:40]
B
I also. That shocked me.
- [51:43]
A
I don't even know what I said. I don't know what I told you, but I.
- [51:45]
B
You told me that you were abused. You were sexually abused.
- [51:50]
A
Sorry. In that case, I probably didn't find out where you really. Where you were. Obviously, I wasn't paying attention to a book party, so maybe that wasn't the right telling.
- [51:58]
B
No, it was perfect because I was, like, in. In, like, zombieland by that point. And that kind of, like, got me present. But also I was like, I cannot believe. Amy was just like, this is what happened. And I'm. I'm telling you.
- [52:14]
A
Well, I was writing in that time, and I was writing about repair, and I was writing. I was writing the process of like. So I felt as you. As though you were talking. I was writing about what had gone on, and I was like, how is she talking about this? These are the. These are the words. But I'm not talking, so these are the words. She put the doctor in what's gone on in my life, and I'm so grateful for that. She put the medical background into it, so I feel so connected to you. I think you're incredible. I loved you through your work and as a friend for so long, but I am really grateful for this conversation.
- [52:58]
B
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