Summary of "Validation: The Skill That Changes Everything" with Dr. Caroline Fleck on Raising Good Humans Podcast
Raising Good Humans is a podcast dedicated to providing realistic and trustworthy support to parents. In the February 28, 2025 episode titled "Validation: The Skill That Changes Everything," host Dr. Aliza Pressman engages in an insightful conversation with Dr. Caroline Fleck, a psychologist and adjunct clinical instructor at Stanford. The episode delves into the concept of validation, a cornerstone of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), and its profound impact on parent-child relationships.
Introduction to Dr. Caroline Fleck and Validation
Dr. Caroline Fleck is introduced as an expert in evidence-based treatments, particularly DBT, which has traditionally been used to treat severe clinical disorders like borderline personality disorder, suicidality, and self-harm. Dr. Pressman highlights Dr. Fleck's new book, Validation: How the Skill Set That Revolutionized Psychology Will Transform Your Relationships, Increase Your Influence, and Change Your Life, which translates DBT validation techniques into practical tools for everyday parenting.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Aliza Pressman [00:10]: "What inspired her new book Validation is what has been used by therapists to help so many people, and she's created a fantastic guidebook for just everyday better relationships, particularly better relationships with your kids."
Understanding DBT and Its Evolution
Dr. Fleck explains that DBT was developed over 30 years ago to treat borderline personality disorder, a condition characterized by severe and often dangerous behaviors. Before DBT, there were no evidence-based treatments for such conditions, and DBT introduced a balance between the need for change and acceptance.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [06:06]: "DBT balanced the emphasis on change with a parallel emphasis on acceptance. At the core of DBT is the message of, 'you're doing the best you can and you need to do better.'"
The Importance of Validation in Parenting
Dr. Pressman and Dr. Fleck discuss how validation can transform everyday interactions between parents and children, especially during challenging moments like teenage angst or conflicts over autonomy. Validation helps children feel understood and seen without parents immediately jumping to problem-solving or changing behaviors.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [10:10]: "Our inclination as parents is to problem solve and jump in with suggestions, but if our kids don't feel understood emotionally, they'll get defensive and shut down."
Personal Story: Dr. Fleck's Experience with Breast Cancer
Dr. Fleck shares a deeply personal story about how her battle with breast cancer affected her relationship with her daughter, Havana. She describes a poignant moment where her attempt to change was met with her daughter's desire for her "old mom." This experience underscored the importance of validation over change.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [12:14]: "I realized I was trying to change how she thinks about the situation, which is the exact opposite of what she wants to hear – 'somebody please acknowledge my reality.'"
Practical Applications: Balancing Validation and Problem Solving
The conversation explores how parents can balance validating their children's emotions with the necessary action to address behaviors or situations. Dr. Fleck outlines scenarios where validation can lead to effective communication and eventual problem-solving.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [21:50]: "Once you've validated the emotion, you can gently transition to problem-solving. For example, asking, 'What can we do better next time?' allows the child to engage in finding solutions."
Levels of Validation: The Validation Ladder
Dr. Fleck introduces the concept of a "validation ladder," which consists of various levels of validation skills, from basic attention and mirroring to deeper empathy and emotional connection. She emphasizes that higher levels of validation require more skill and carry higher stakes if misapplied.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [36:42]: "There are eight steps to validation, ranging from attending and copying to proposing and contextualizing."
Common Misunderstandings and Misuses
The discussion highlights common misconceptions about validation, such as the fear of reinforcing negative behaviors or the worry that validation equates to agreement. Dr. Fleck clarifies that validation focuses on acknowledging emotions without necessarily endorsing behaviors.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [28:00]: "All behaviors are not valid. While emotions are valid, the behaviors precipitated by them may not be."
Tools and Steps for Practicing Validation
Dr. Fleck outlines practical steps for parents to incorporate validation into their interactions:
- Attending - Paying full attention to the child.
- Copying - Mirroring the child's words or actions.
- Equalizing - Showing that you understand the logic behind their feelings.
- Contextualizing - Placing their emotions within a broader context.
- Proposing - Offering possible thoughts or feelings they might be experiencing.
- Emoting - Expressing emotions to show empathy.
- Taking Action - Intervening appropriately after validation.
- Disclosure - Sharing similar experiences to build connection.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [38:10]: "Attending is about paying attention and trying to understand the person's perspective. Copying involves mirroring their words or non-verbals to foster empathy."
Self-Validation for Caregivers
The episode concludes with a segment on the importance of self-validation for parents, providing tools to guide caregivers toward self-compassion and emotional regulation. Dr. Fleck shares her personal self-validation practices, emphasizing the need for parents to care for their own emotional well-being to effectively support their children.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [54:40]: "Self-validation requires paying attention to your own emotions, labeling them, repeating them, and self-soothing to maintain emotional balance."
The Critical Role of Validation in Mental Health
Dr. Fleck emphasizes that validation is not only essential for healthy parent-child relationships but also plays a significant role in mental health. An environment that frequently invalidates emotions can contribute to severe psychopathology, as seen in higher rates of suicide and self-harm in communities that experience profound levels of invalidation.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [61:11]: "Invalidation is theorized to play a causal role in severe psychopathology of all types, including borderline personality disorder and even psychopathy."
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
The episode wraps up with Dr. Pressman encouraging listeners to embrace validation as a transformative tool in parenting. She underscores that while mastering validation takes practice and may not always be perfect, it offers a hopeful path toward more meaningful and resilient relationships with children.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Aliza Pressman [62:22]: "So everybody needs to get your book Validation. How the skill set that revolutionized psychology will transform your relationships, increase your influence, and change your life."
Final Remarks: The episode concludes with heartfelt reflections on the challenges and rewards of practicing validation. Dr. Fleck acknowledges the complexities involved but remains optimistic about the transformative potential of validation in fostering stronger, more empathetic relationships.
Notable Quote:
Dr. Caroline Fleck [60:13]: "Life is messy and it's ugly and it's beautiful, and validation is where resilience comes from. It is where character is built."
This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting key discussions, personal insights, practical tools, and the profound impact of validation on both parenting and mental health. By including notable quotes with timestamps and structuring the content into clear sections, the summary provides a rich and engaging overview that is accessible to those who haven't listened to the episode.