What Temperament Really Is—and Why It Matters for Parenting w/ Dr. Koraly Pérez-Edgar

Summary

Raising Good Humans Podcast: “What Temperament Really Is—and Why It Matters for Parenting”

Host: Dr. Aliza Pressman
Guest: Dr. Koraly Pérez-Edgar
Date: September 5, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Dr. Aliza Pressman is joined by Dr. Koraly Pérez-Edgar, a leading developmental psychologist and temperament researcher. Together, they explore the true nature of temperament, how it differs from personality, its biological roots, and why understanding temperament is crucial for effective and compassionate parenting. The episode dives into how children’s temperamental differences manifest, are shaped by parenting and culture, and can influence outcomes like shyness, assertiveness, and even risk-taking.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Temperament: The Biological Foundation

[02:04 – 04:09]

• Temperament is described as the “biological basis of personality”—how children express likes, dislikes, and interact with their surroundings, starting very early.
  • Three pillars:
    1. Biologically based (“not a single gene—think polygenic,” [04:09])
    2. Early appearing
    3. Relatively stable across contexts
• There isn’t a single “shyness gene”; rather, temperament is a complex interplay of multiple genes and biological processes (e.g., hormones, brain, cardiac responses).

“It has a biological basis, but it is not deterministic.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [03:38]

2. Temperament Is Not Destiny—Parenting Shapes Trajectories

[04:09 – 07:01]

• Parenting and environment shape how temperament’s foundational traits are expressed over time.
• A shy child can become more outgoing, and a highly assertive child can learn to slow down and self-regulate.

“You can help a shy child become more outgoing, just like you can help the very assertive, outgoing child slow down a bit and take a deep breath.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [06:40]

3. No “Best” Temperament, Just Different Needs

[07:01 – 09:11]

• The so-called “easy” temperament is adaptable but not objectively better than “more reactive” or “more sensitive” ones.
• All children—easy, shy, highly active—are still developing and have their own joys and difficulties.

“Those easy children are not easy a hundred percent of the time, 24/7. They’re still developing humans.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [09:11]

4. Temperament Across Development: What to Look For in Infancy and Early Childhood

[10:03 – 13:51]

• Early signs include sensitivity to noises, reactions to stimulation (e.g., jack-in-the-box), need for regularity.
• Lab observations show some infants delighted by surprises, others frightened—early glimpses of temperament.

“For the child who’s negative reactive, they have an increased probability of being more socially withdrawn later.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [12:25]

• Important distinction between the probability of traits (like later social anxiety) and risk (“shyness is just a trait”; it shouldn’t be pathologized).

5. The Role of Parenting: Supporting, Not Fixing

[14:30 – 17:21]

• Parents should help children develop tools for challenges, not “fix” who they are.
• Example: Supporting a shy child with presentations—brainstorming coping strategies rather than excusing them or pushing too hard.

“Fixing our children is usually what we’re the worst at… give the child tools for when they need to branch out so that they feel confident and empowered.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [14:57]

6. Scaffolding for Exuberant/Risk-Taking Kids

[20:33 – 25:55]

• Parents of risk-inclined or highly active children can channel these tendencies into safe, structured activities (bounce houses, athletics, theater).
• Offer outlets for natural strengths while setting safe boundaries—guide, don't suppress.

“You’re at least giving them structured activities... giving them the safety to do it in a way that is scaffolded and supervised.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [23:32]

7. Temperament and Culture

[28:32 – 34:03]

• Temperament = the “clay”, culture = the hands that shape it.
• Cultures value traits (e.g., shyness, assertiveness) differently and reinforce these in children (e.g., Chinese vs. Sicilian children).
• Gender norms also influence how temperamental traits are seen and supported.

“Culture... is the way in which that clay begins to be molded, not changed, not turned into wood, not becomes glass, but shaped.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [28:59]

8. Building Toolkits Without Pathologizing Kids

[37:10 – 40:55]

• The goal is to empower children with tools so they can function successfully in different environments, not to change their innate nature.
• Activities should be chosen for the child’s joy and skill-building, not parental ego or expectations.

9. Temperament vs. Attachment: Both Matter

[41:35 – 44:09]

• Historic debates pitted attachment and temperament against each other; now researchers acknowledge both interact and matter.
• Some temperaments make attachment-building easier, some harder.
• Secure relationships can help “shape early temperamental tendencies.”

“A strong, secure attachment relationship can help ease and shape early temperamental tendencies. And isn't that lovely?”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [42:53]

10. Parenting Is Harder with Some Temperaments—And That's OK

[44:09 – 46:20]

• Acknowledgment: It's harder to parent some temperaments (e.g., kids who don’t sleep or are impulsive) and that’s not a parental failure.
• When children’s struggles are lessened, parents’ stress and mental health improve too.

“You are not crazy to think it’s hard to parent a child who doesn’t sleep... It is more difficult to parent a child who won’t leave your side.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [45:16]

11. New Research on Parent-Child Synchrony

[46:20 – 54:49]

• New studies show that during interaction, parent and child’s biological signals (brainwaves, heartbeats) synchronize—especially under stress or teamwork.
• Children good at self-regulating synchronize more with parents during stress, possibly “borrowing regulation.”
• Synchrony may be adaptive at some ages but could become problematic if it hinders autonomy; more research needed.

“Whenever people are in a room together, interacting, their biological signals become more synchronized… our bodies become attuned to the people we interact with.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [47:00]

12. The Role of Temperament in Modern Parenting Concerns

[60:07 – 65:23]

• Whether it’s social media, mental health, or external events, not all kids respond the same—temperament shapes vulnerability.
• For example, some shy kids benefit from social media as a form of connection, while for others it's detrimental.
• Parents should watch their own child’s responses rather than universalize tips or warnings.

“It can’t necessarily be that everything is good and everything is bad... every child is slightly more or less sensitive to some aspect of their environment.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [60:41]

13. Goodness of Fit: Parent and Child Temperaments

[65:23 – 71:21]

• The match (“goodness of fit”) between parent and child temperaments can affect outcomes.
• Parents must adapt, become attuned to differences, and scaffold for their child.
• Sensitivity and adaptation—more than similarity—lead to a better fit.

14. Temperament Is Dimensional, Not Categorical

[71:21 – 75:40]

• Different dimensions (activity level, sensory sensitivity, self-regulation, emotional reactivity) all comprise temperament.
• These traits can group together but also vary independently—and can sometimes be traced even to in-utero activity.

“There are no good foods. There are no bad foods. But for you as an individual, you get to learn which foods make you feel better... Same with temperament.”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [75:12]

15. Parental Self-Reflection and Temperament in Action

[79:34 – 83:01]

• Dr. Pérez-Edgar and Dr. Pressman share personal parenting stories that highlight the diversity of temperaments—even among their own children and spouses.
• The concept of the “experienced environment” is introduced: two people can be in the same objective setting but perceive and react entirely differently due to temperament.

“Our environment. You’re sitting in the same room, but your perception... is very different... That's why you could have two kids go to school, be in the same classroom, come home and report, ‘How was school today?’ One will say, ‘Horrible,’ ... the other child [says], ‘Oh, it was fine, we just did the project.’”
— Dr. Pérez-Edgar [82:38]

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Notable Quotes

• “It is not that we can point to a gene and say, this is the shyness gene. This child will Be shy, period. End of story, right? It's shaping the child.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [03:38]

• “Your easy child will have a tantrum. In fact, doctors will be concerned ... if you have a child who never cries, never gets frustrated, never ... pushes against boundaries.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [09:22]

• “Some people are naturally hilarious, and others are not ... you can help a shy child become more outgoing.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [06:10]

• “Temperament ... is the clay. But unless you work on that clay ... it will never be a vase.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [28:59]

• “Fixing our children is usually what we’re worst at ... what you can do is give the child tools.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [14:57]

• “Whenever people are in a room together, interacting, their biological signals become more synchronized.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [47:00]

• “It’s not to fix the child. It is to give them tools they can use to engage in the world the way they wish to and need to.”
  — Dr. Pérez-Edgar [37:44]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 02:04 | What is temperament? Biological base, polygenic nature | | 07:13 | Easy temperament vs. more extreme traits | | 10:39 | Temperament signs in infancy; reactivity vs. adaptability | | 13:51 | Probability vs. risk in shy/socially withdrawn kids | | 14:57 | Why parents shouldn’t “fix” temperament—support instead | | 20:33 | Parenting highly active, risk-taking children | | 28:59 | Temperament and culture (“the clay and the hands”) | | 37:10 | Building toolkits for kids without pathologizing them | | 41:35 | Attachment vs. temperament; how they interact | | 44:09 | Acknowledging parenting is harder with some temperaments | | 46:20 | Parent-child biological synchrony: new research insights | | 60:41 | Not every parenting tip fits every temperament | | 65:23 | Goodness of fit: matches/mismatches between parent and child | | 71:46 | Temperament as multidimensional (activity, sensitivity, etc.) | | 79:34 | Personal stories; objective vs. experienced environment |

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Summary & Takeaways

Understanding temperament provides an essential lens for more empathetic, practical, and individualized parenting. It’s not about “fixing” kids but equipping them with strategies to navigate the world as they are. While culture and parenting shape how temperament appears, every child has unique patterns—and so does every parent. True support means observing, listening, adapting, and embracing the broad spectrum of human nature, not striving for a cookie-cutter ideal.

“There are no good temperaments, there are no bad temperaments. But for you as an individual, you get to learn what works for you—and as a parent, how to help your child thrive with who they are.”

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Transcript

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome to Raising good humans. I'm Dr. Eliza Pressman and today is a conversation with developmental psychologist and temperament expert, Dr. Corali Perez Edgar. She looks at the connections between temperament and shyness and parent child interactions. But we're talking about all of it today. And what's very fun is that we are also doing a masterclass. You know, those cool masterclasses that, you know, you just pick a topic that you just want to know more about and they have this beautiful and totally manageable class. Dr. Corlee Perez Edgar, myself, Dr. Lisa Demore and Dr. Dave Anderson all participated in this fabulous masterclass. Cannot recommend it enough, so I'm excited to share it with you and I love this conversation. You know, I could talk about temperament for so long. What I thought was so interesting is when Corlee looks at the research, she's not just looking at the objective environment that a person is experiencing, but she's looking at the experienced environment. So even though you have two kids in the same room eating the same dinner, that can be a completely different experience depending on their temperament. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to give it a little shout out, a review of some kind on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And I hope you have a wonderful week. We have talked about temperament before, but just to give everybody a refresher, can you define temperament?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Sure. So if we think about temperament from our modern perspective, we think about it as the biological basis of personality. It is that first introduction to your child in the first years of life where they show you their. It's their first introduction where they show you their likes, their dislikes, the ways in which they interact with the world. When we think about the scientific definition, we think about three main pillars. One, that it's biologically based, Two, that it is early appearing, and three, that it is relatively stable across contexts.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So if we think about biologically based, we're not saying that it has a genetic stamp on it. Like we would say hair color, right? You're blonde, you have dark hair. Rather, that there are underlying processes in your brain and other body parts. Hormones, cardiac responses that tend to respond to the world in a profile, right? So that some children are more reactive, they're more sensitive to the world, and that their brain, their body, their heart, their hormones show that sensitivity. So it has a biological basis, but it is not deterministic.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

It is not that we can point to a gene and say, this is the shyness gene. This child will Be shy, period. End of story, right? It's shaping the child.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

You know, I was talking about this with my daughter, and she was so frustrated because she. She was like, but why, if it's biologically based, can we not say it's a gene? Like, why don't we have this information?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Well, the thing is, with many of the traits that we're really interested in as parents, as researchers, as behavioral scientists, they tend to be very complicated. And what we say is polygenetic, meaning it is a combination of genes and that come together in different profiles to shape a particular tendency, right? So we may have a gene that influences a particular trait, like, that's medical. But very few of the complicated things that we worry about, or we think about or that we enjoy come out of a single gene. There is no comedy gene. There is no gene for anger. There is no gene for depression. There is no single gene for being outgoing. It's a combination. And what we now know over many decades of research by people much smarter than myself is. Is that even when we think about a specific set of genes, those genes express themselves in different ways. They can get turned on or off completely sometimes, or they can be partially turned on or off. Those genes give the blueprint for protein synthesis. Protein synthesis then leads to other traits and other functions, all the way up to the fact that some. Some people are naturally hilarious and others are not. And so we think about setting that foundation. So if you think about shyness, it's that tendency when something happens in the environment that's a bit startling, unexpected, unknown, uncontrollable. Our tendency as a shy person is to pull back, to withdraw, to. To watch. Okay? That's your natural tendency, right? That does not mean that your behavior stops there and will never change. It could be that you stop, you pull back, you watch, and then you realize, oh, okay, this is fine. I understand what's happening, right? And then you engage, because over time, your parents, your teachers, your friends have interacted with you and shape the way that biological basis that tendency gets expressed. You can help a shy child become more outgoing, just like you can help the very assertive, outgoing child slow down a bit and take a deep breath and figure out what's happening around them before they just kind of like, jump right off the building. Because it looks fun, right?

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Actually, I'm glad you gave those two comparisons, because first of all, it shows that there isn't one better temperament. There might be an easier one.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

There might be easier ones, and then the easy ones don't tend to be at the extremes. If we think about, if we think about easy and let's define easy temperament. Thomas and Chest did work in the 1950s actually in New York City. And they had their temperament profiles. And one of them was easy. And the easy profile is that miraculous child where they kind of go with the flow. Are they normally fed at 5, but today you're feeding them at 5:30? Okay. Are they normally in a quiet house but you have to go out into the city and it's loud and there's construction. Oh, that's interesting. If you are traveling and you had to take the red eye and now you're trying to sleep on the plane. Okay, Right. That child that just takes in the environment and adapts to it in a way that seems almost effortless and without pain points. They consider that the easy child, you want to sleep train the child. The child practically sleep trains himself.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

That is sort of the middle. And you get extremes. You get that very high energy, positive affect, go, go, go child. And you get the very shy or prickly or sensitive child on the other end. Both of those need different inputs from the environment. And we're never going to make those children easy per se. They might appear easy because we've helped them learn to self regulate and they've matured into things so they might feel things a little more deeply, but they can move on. But even that easy child, I think what we have, one of the things we talked about in the masterclass was temperament and the orchids and the dandelions. Those easy children are not easy a hundred percent of the time. 24, 7.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Right. They're still developing humans.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

They're still developing humans. They still have emotions, they still have moments of joy and moments of frustration and anger. Your easy child will have a tantrum.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

In fact, doctors will be concerned, pediatricians will be concerned. If you have a child and you come in and say, oh, he's so easy, never cries, never gets frustrated, never has a tantrum, never shows attempts to be independent or push against boundaries. That's not a child that's developing adaptively. Something's probably not happening there. That should. Because part of development is to learn, like, what are my boundaries? Where can I push and nudge them a little bit? Because you need that to go out into the world and really take it all in and thrive.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So for the kids who sort of fall on either side of easy or a little, you know, further on the extremes, let's talk about the version where we're noticing this and what it might look like in infancy, and how the parent, caregiver, child relationship can help nurture that particular flower. Because we'll just keep going with that metaphor and kind of take biology and shape it and be. Per. Participate in the shaping of this human.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right? And that comes to point two. So if point one was that it's biologically based, point two of temperament is that it's early appearing and it's not going to appear in the first months of life like it shows up when Your child is 5 or 10. You don't have anxious babies, right? There's no such thing as an aggressive baby per se. You have babies who have reactivity tendencies that might increase the likelihood or the odds of them becoming shy or of them becoming more aggressive or assertive, right? So you notice in the first year of life that your child might be more sensitive to noises. That that jack in the box that the uncle bought them that they thought they'd love scares the bejesus out of them, right? You cannot use that jack in the box.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Totally relatable example, right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And in fact, we use that in the lab. We have a jack in the box in the lab and we show it to 4 month olds and some of them think it's the hilarious thing. And you can almost see them thinking, do it again. Because it just is so stimulating and lovely for them. And other children are like, get me out of here. This is, this is straight out of a Stephen King novel, right? I'm not. Let's, let's pretend a four month old reads Stephen King. But early on you can see those differences, right? Do they respond with eagerness and approach and positive affect to noises and to sensory stimulation, or do they withdraw and show negative emotions? Do they need a very steady schedule to stay really on track?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

They need to have that external stimuli. Sorry, they need that external scaffolding to keep them steady. A set nap time, a set meal time, a set play time. And they're much more happy with that while other babies, you just pick them up and walk out the door and they'll just go with the flow. So those are temperamental traits. We can think about them as being negative reactivity, positive reactivity. Those are sort of the labels we give them in the lab. But for the child who's negative reactive, they have an increased probability of being more socially withdrawn later. And if they're socially withdrawn, they have a greater probability of showing social anxiety and I'm very careful to say probability, right? We are not saying this child will be socially anxious. And when it comes to Shyness or social withdrawal. I'm also very careful to use the word probability and not risk because shyness is just a trait. Some people are more shy than others. But when we say you're at risk for shyness, we are immediately saying, there is something wrong here and you as a parent, should fix it. I will use the word risk for social anxiety if we think about that as a disorder.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right, right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

It is impairing your ability to interact with, navigate, and enjoy your social world. That is a disorder that needs treatment. Being shy just means you have two or three good friends and you like going to the movies, going out to eat, talking with them, and that gives you joy. Just like for other people, they need to be out there riding their bikes, rock climbing, doing more adventurous things, and that gives them joy. But I'm not going to say that you are at risk for being very active.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Right, right. And so. And, and I think it really is important for us to continue to promote the idea that there's space in the world for all of these people with all of these temperaments. And if you're worried about at risk for social anxiety, we'll talk about some of the things that you might do. As you see these. These traits emerge without trying to fix a personality.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right. Because of all the things parents can or can't do. Fixing our children is usually what we're the worst at. I think because we have trouble diagnosing the problem. What is it that we're trying to fix? We often don't have the insight to understand why we want to fix it. And what are the consequences potentially of fixing this problem? Because we're thinking about, in the moment, a single concern in a single context. And that, again, goes to the third pillar of temperament, that it is relatively stable across time and across context. And so this is your child's profile. It's their way of dealing with or reacting to the world. And it's hard to fix something that deep. What you can do is give the child tools for when they need to branch out so that they feel confident and. And empowered to do the things that are asked of them. So if I have a child that's somewhat shy and has difficulty talking to others, and they're in class and they have to do a presentation in front of the class, which is always horrifying. I mean, let's just put it out there. The fix is not to say, I'm going to call your teacher and tell her, you don't have to. That's not a fix. The fix is not to say, don't be such a baby, just do it. I can't understand why this is worrying you. An alternative approach, which is not a fix is to say, I know you're nervous. Tell me, did you do the reading? Do you have. What about doing note cards? Do you want to talk to me about your presentation and practice it with me? Or if I'm going to freak you out, why don't you practice by yourself in front of a mirror?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Because sometimes the best approach is to give them ideas and then step away. Sometimes my kids would have been freaked out giving the talk to me, but I would have said, hey, why don't you give your talk to your friend? Give the talk to your dog. Our dog is 10 years old. She's heard a lot of talks over the years. Do it in front of the mirror. Give them alternatives and empower them.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Without saying, I don't understand why you're shy.

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Now, on the other side, a kid who has a very enthusiastic social temperament but really loves a risk. What are some ways to sort of help them in the same way that we're talking about the shy kid? What are some ways to help them get the best out of that thriving with risk without doing stupid things?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah. Though of course, doing stupid things might be the subtitle of, like, my life as a child. I have a scar to prove it.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And I have, by the way, none except somebody stepped on my pinky. Oh. But that was the only broken bone I got because I was so cautious. Like, I. Somebody stepped on my pinky and a dance. You know, I was in the Nutcracker and I was on my back and at somebody's toe shoe stepped on my pinky. And that was my injury. And I think it's so funny and a little lame. Like, that's my big injury because I was so risk averse. And so I think I so understand helping boost the risk taking, like, thoughtful risk taking that I missed out on. But I'm also so curious about taking those kids who have that wonderful curiosity and excitement over risk. And how do you say, all right, I need to not dim that light, but let's make sure that we don't get into so much trouble that it's prohibitive.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right. And this is where the good thing about temperament, being early, appearing kind of gives you warning and helps you. Okay, I'm really gonna have to scaffold this. One of my children Loved. I remember being in a church service once and they were just on a pew and they just jumped off the pew into my arms and then back down and jumped off the pew and back into my arms.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Just for an hour. And at that point you're like, okay, this is an active child.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

That's a clue.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

That's a clue. And so what you start to see is, oh, they like activity or they like taking risks. And of course, when they're little, you can sort of control the universe of risks they will take. You might have to baby proof that house a little bit more than other houses.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Looking around the house like, what can I see in my home? That when they look at it, they will see the words climb me.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Jump off of me and say, you know what, this is dangerous. This is a railing, this is a banister. But over 10 minutes away, there's the bounce house place. Why don't we go over there and we'll bounce around for an hour to next Tuesday, or we'll go once a week and that's where we go bouncing, right? Let's go bouncing, right. We don't bounce off the stairs at the house.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And yet you have an opportunity to bounce. I'm not going to take that away.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And it's not going to be like they're never going to bounce off the railing again.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But you're, you're at least giving them, giving them structured activities. You know, when I love watching the Olympics, for example, both summer in winter, and when I see some of the events like, okay, the marathon you run, I get that. Or you know, you ice skate, I kind of get that. When I see the ski jumpers, right. When I see when they added the bicycle, bmx, you know, when do you get up one morning and say, you know what, I'm going to jump off a mountain. Right. Well, that's scaffolded, right? You didn't jump off the mountain as a four year old, but your parents saw that you were athletic, that you liked that type of sport, and they might have signed you up for ski classes. And skiing seemed interesting, but not nearly as exciting as looking over and seeing the jumpers. You have a coach, you have training, you realize that you have to be very careful because if you're too risky, you're going to break a bone and there goes your season.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So you are giving them the outlet of this is something I'm really interested in. And then you're giving them the safety to do it in a way that is scaffolded and supervised and leads out to good outcomes. It doesn't have to be athletics. Some people are very artistic, and there are the quiet arts, the painting.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

The writers. But there are people who thrive in theater, who thrive in being part of an orchestra. That's in many ways also risky. You're putting yourself out there, and not only do you have your orchestra mates or your cast and crew relying on you and watching you, but when performance comes, others are watching you too. And you need to learn the discipline of learning your role, learning your music, being part of that group, and in some cases, taking the. The word from sublimating your tendencies to be all over the place, all out there to the goals of the group, while still allowing yourselves to take that risk, to be a performer, to be the artist.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So the part of this that's sort of like you're. You're looking at your child, you're thinking.

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I'm trying to figure out who you.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Are, and I'm going to scaffold who you are in these ways that you're talking about. I was just thinking. We were actually on a ski trip over Christmas break with our very dear friends, and their son went skiing, and he's like.

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Physical. The adrenaline rush of physical risk. And. And he came home and he's like, I'm gonna do a flip tomorrow. Like, he saw somebody do it, and his mom was like, I'll tell you what. No, don't do a flip tomorrow. But if you want to take lessons to learn how to do this and then come back again next season and try it, like, I'm all in. Let me support you. And he. He did that. He's been working on it all year, and now he's doing flips. And I was thinking it really is as simple as paying attention to kind of what gets them going, but then helping them figure out a way to do it that's not like, end of days.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right, Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

For. For the child and for the parent who's like, you know, yeah, I would.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Have been the worst parent for that kid. I would have been like, no.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But the notion that for some children, some individuals. Because you see adults like this, it seemed like nothing to say, oh, I saw somebody do that. I'm gonna do it too.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

That confidence that just let me step out there, I would have been like, that is crazy.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Totally.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And of course, I can't do that. And I'm not saying one is better than the other, but there is a fundamental difference in the way you. You take in information.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And say, I want to do that tomorrow.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

It's so true. Because I would take that information and say, wow, that is insane.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Oh, that's why I love watching, like I said, the Olympics. I love seeing the. The breath of it. And sometimes I have to sit there and say, you know what? I could have done curling. I could have been a good curler. Because two or three days into the Olympics, my. My daughter and I would be sitting on the couch going, you know what? I think Sweden this year, they have it because the way they took on Canada and the preliminaries, and then I lose all interest and knowledge about curling, and then four years later, I'm back.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right. Wow.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But I'm not picturing myself doing the ski jump. Right, Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

No, I think. And I think we can pay attention to that now. What? So temperament exists across cultures?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yes.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

How do you respond when people say there's a particularly. There's like. Seems like there's more fragility in kids in the U.S. for example, than in some other place. Or there's. I'm trying to think of examples. Or people are more quiet in one particular whole community.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

How do you separate temperament and culture?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So if we think about temperament as the clay, right? The child is born, it comes into the world with a particular worldview, a particular way of responding. That's the clay. And the clay has properties, Right. Some types of clay are better for some forms of ceramic or some forms of art than others. But unless you work on that clay, unless you interact with it, it will never be a vase, Right. It will never turn into that lovely mug where you take your first sip of coffee every morning. And culture, and parenting is a reflection of culture, is the way in which that clay begins to be molded, not changed, not turned into wood, not becomes glass, but shaped. And what we see is that some cultures value certain traits or certain ways of being differently than others. But even within a culture, we value certain ways of being, say, in boys versus girls. So if we do studies and we ask parents to fill out questionnaires about shyness, almost always systematically, they rate girls as shyer than boys. If we bring them into the lab and we test them early in terms of their temperament and behavioral inhibition, there's no gender difference, there's no sex difference, but we tend to value some of those being a little reticent, being a little more quiet, being a little less go, go, go in girls than boys, and we pick up on that, and we reinforce that. So I would argue over time, yes, girls are shyer. Than boys. But they're not necessarily born shyer. And indeed, boys with a more reticent temperament are more likely to become anxious than girls are. Because in girls, we shape it, we see it, we give them the tools to work around their initial shyness or reticence. For boys which want to push it away, don't be a sissy, be a big boy. Don't let others push you around. Get in there, right? And if it's hard for a boy to do that, it can become much more distressing for them across cultures. And I hate saying that because you're talking about 40, 50 million people and I'm going to just use a sentence to characterize 50 million people so you know it's wrong before I even say the words. You know I'm wrong. But to be wrong, we can say that some cultures value more quiet, reserved traits, while other cultures may on the whole, value more outgoing. Louder. There's this one study that happened in the 80s where they looked at behavioral inhibition, which is one of the temperament traits associated with social withdrawal and difficulty with novelty. And there were in different sites all over the world. And one of the things that they found is that in the site in China, behavioral inhibition and those behaviors actually increased over time because they were valued and they were like, why can't you be more like this person? More quiet, more reserved, more in tune with the surrounding community. And one of the sites was in Sicily. They couldn't find the inhibited kids after a while because they write the way. It's not that they weren't inhibited anymore.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

We don't change. Their biology is that they learned to blend in, to be more gregarious and to be more in tune with their social world.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So for example, my example is I'm from Puerto Rico and yes, there are quiet people in my family. We all have different personalities and different traits, but in the aggregate, we can be loud, we can throw our elbows and get in there and be more from the outside, socially active, Right? But for me, my natural tendency is to be quiet, reserved and watching. But I've been given the tools culturally when I need to go into that mode, right? So it's almost like I've been given this toolbox and I'm like, okay, I'm in a grand graduate seminar with some first year students. Okay, I'm going to pick these tools. I'm now at a family wedding, right? Let me grab these tools.

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

How do you promote these tool builders? Like, how do you build these tools without the sense of that the tools are needed to make you better? Because you know what I mean? Because I think that's a real struggle. We want to provide like a whole toolkit.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

To be able to be where, you know, in, in multiple environments.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yes.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And also we want our kids to feel like, hey, if this is your jam, this is your jam.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And, and yeah, you had brought this up and I think Lisa did as well in the masterclass. It was so lovely. In terms of sometimes the best times of parenting is just literally spending time with your child without an agenda because you get to see who they are in their most natural state and who they're, what they're like when they are relaxed and in a place that they find safe and rewarding. And that's your baseline, right? That's who your child is. And you acknowledge it and you embrace it. And then like, okay, if this is my child's baseline, what tools do they need? Do I need to add a little over here or add a little bit over there? And it is not to fix the child. It is to give them the tools they can use to engage in the world the way they wish to and need to. So I'm not the one holding the tools going in there. It's, you know, activities, activities for not the sake of saying my child does X, Y and Z. Oh, we can't come next week because they're in a travel tournament because don't, you know, my child made the team. If your child loves athletics and loves the team, oh, yeah, that's fantastic. Is it because you've decided my child will be the star athlete. That's a little different.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So we know that the children, at least most children, most children of the parents who are listening to this podcast will be going to school, right? They need to learn certain things. They need to learn how to socially engage with others. They need to learn when it is not appropriate to. To be socially engaging with others. So that's self regulation. Learning how to work as a group, both where it's goal directed. We're all trying to reach a certain point together. Understanding their place in the group turn taking these things are all Hard. I mean, I'm 51 years old and I'm still working through these things. But you're thinking about, where is my child going to go and what does he or she need to do? Well, in that environment, what about activities that gives them a sense of empowerment and just fun.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And knowing the baseline of my child, is that going to be baseball? Is that going to be violin? Is that going to be a painting class? Is that. Is it going to be BMX writing?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And so your child leads the way. You know what skills your child needs or should have. But your child is going to give you the clues and the hints about how to best reach those goals for this particular child. And as we said in the master class, you know, the running joke is that people come to believe that temperament is true when you have your second child, because there's not going to be a replica of your first child.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So again, now you have to take a step back and say, okay, rigid or very stable schedules worked for my firstborn. My second born is just all elbows and legs. Cannot be held down by, oh, the bell rang, it's 3pm we will now nap.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And so now you have to learn that child's baseline and that child's way of dealing with the world. Yes, you have the same goals for that child, but you're gonna have to get there in a different path.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

You know, temperament really feels like if you. If you don't look through the lens of temperament, you're dismissing everything.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Okay, so I'm biased because I'm a temperament researcher, so.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I know.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But of course. But for the longest time, there was this. There's nothing more apart, brutal than a nerd battle. And into the 80s and the 90s, going back into the 70s, there was this battle between the temperament researchers and the attachment researchers.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And attachment being. We all, we can now say in 2025. Of course, attachment matters. The relationships you build with your safe spot in the universe, the people you can turn to when they're there physically with you, and you can internalize their help when they're not there with you. Of course that matters. But there used to be fights over whether or not attachment was just a reflection of your temperament.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Right, right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Or that. Or that attachment would just wipe away temperament differences. Right. That if you had a good enough secure relationship with your child, all of those prickly parts of childhood would kind of be wiped away.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

What a way to make parents feel like crap.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Both at both ends. Yes, both ends of that equation were crappy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And it really became, at one point, everybody just was too excited, too exhausted to fight anymore. Yes, for some children, building attachments are harder than others because of their temperament. And yes, a strong, secure attachment relationship can help ease and shape early temperamental tendencies. And isn't that lovely? Suddenly we, you know, now we can work together for the, for the good of children rather than to prove who's Right. I'm not 51% right. You're only 49% right.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

It is interesting because you, you might worry more about attachment depending on your child's temperament.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Because the easy baby seems easy to have secure attachment.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So easy. And, and it. They just show you the love and they pick up on your signals and you seem so attuned with each other. I'm such a great mom or I'm such a great dad. Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Then, then it feeds your confidence as a parent. I mean, so many parents start to feel so, so terrible when really they just weren't prepared for this temperament.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And, and it, and it goes through development. It's not just infancy. So there's this beautiful paper that Wendy Silverman, who's a researcher at Yale, has, where she was doing an intervention on. I'm going to say this wrong, but I believe it was children with depression or anxiety, just say, of mood disorders. And prior to the intervention in the children they assessed, the mothers in this particular study was moms. And what they found is in treating the children, the children who showed lower symptoms and better outcomes post intervention, their moms showed less symptoms of depression and anxiety after treatment.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So, like that saying that I don't even like of. You're only as happy as your least happy child.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

To some extent, yes. Although that's awful for the mom and the father.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So awful for the mom. Whenever people say that to me, I'm like, that is. And it's burdensome for the kid.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And also none of your children will all be happy at the same time.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

You're almost guaranteed.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah, but, but it was the notion that the needs of a child do take from a parent, a caring parent is giving to this child. And some children need more and take more than others. Not on purpose. Right. We're not blaming the child. It's just they need more scaffolding, they need more support. And when that child's needs are lessened a little bit and their burden is lessened, so is that of the parent. You are not crazy to think it's hard to parent a child who doesn't sleep. It's not crazy to Think that it's hard to parent a child who is more likely to throw a tantrum than other children. It is more difficult to parent a child who won't leave your side. It is more difficult to parent a child who will run into the street if you look the other way for 30 seconds or less. 30 seconds is an eternity.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

At that point, you're halfway across town. Five seconds.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

It is more difficult. And we acknowledge that you have to.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So can you talk a little bit about sort of the. This upcoming research that you're doing just thinking about the borrowing and lending of the nervous system?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Sure. So, like I said, temperament is genetically based, but it's not deterministic. We know that parents and children tend to share traits. We can say it runs in the family. Whether we tend to be shy, we tend to be outgoing.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

We're all lactose intolerant. It runs in the family. My work tends to focus on anxiety. So to put it in that lens, we know that children of anxious parents tend to be more anxious. We know that. We know that children of anxious parents tend to have more fearful temperaments. Again, that genetic basis. But we're not at a point in 2025, and I don't know if we ever should be, that we can treat or intervene with whatever genetic profile gets passed on from parent to child. What we do know is, over and above genetics, the ways in which we parent the behaviors we show do influence the child. So that if you show more anxious behavior, if you show more stress, if you are more overprotective of the child, that child will be more anxious. Yes, there's that genetic thread. But the parenting behaviors in the environment adds on top of that. And the question we ask in this new study that we're running, I'm doing it in collaboration with. With Dr. Susan Perlman, who's at Washington University in St. Louis. Is what we're looking at is is there a biological foundation for this transmission of behavior? And one of the things that we know that I think is super cool is that whenever people are in a room together, interacting, their biological signals become more synchronized. We do it neurally. So our brain waves, literally our brain waves become more synchronized, our heartbeats become more synchronized. And we think over time, our hormones become more synchronized. That's a little harder to capture. They're more complex. There's more of them. They take longer. And we've seen in studies that, for example, if you and I are sitting in a room watching tv, our brains become more synchronized. If we are sitting and Watching somebody do a puzzle, we become even more synchronized. If we are then doing the puzzle together and we're interacting even more synchronized. We know that parents and children or romantic partners or people who have worked together for a long time are more synchronized and become synchronized faster. So it seems to be some foundation there that spontaneously, without our knowing, without our noticing, our bodies become attuned to the people we interact with. So we're asking a pretty specific question in the study. Is this synchronization the way in which children take on the traits and the behaviors of the parent? And so for one of the tasks we do in the study, we have parent and child. So we have both moms and child and dads and child to see if there's differences based on which parent they do a puzzle together. Low stress, they're wearing what we call caps that do functional near infrared spectroscopy and that just simply measures the oxygenation of blood in the brain. And we can see how they become synchronized. We then make it harder by giving them hard puzzles on a time limit. And what we see is that synchronization increases during the puzzle, the hard puzzles, because you're working together, it's a little more stressful and you really have to be in it to win it, right? And then we say, okay, you're done with that, let's just do some coloring, let's just do some more low key activity. The synchronization levels go down, you're still synchronized, but not at the peak when you were trying to really get to this goal together. And what we're trying to do in this study, and we're still early on, is to look at what one, does synchrony change over time? So the children come in three years in a row, and year one, they're either four, five, or six. So by year three, they're going to be six, seven, and eight. So do you get, as you get older, does synchrony in general increase or decrease? We don't know that. Two, does the pattern of synchrony change when you're under stress over time? Do some families become even more synchronized under stress or do some people flatten out? And three, does your temperament or your traits matter based in relation to the shape of that synchrony?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So for example, our very early first analysis shows that kids that are better at self regulating have more synchronization with, with your parent during the stressful puzzle.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

That they, because they basically are borrowing their parent. They're like, I'm gonna regulate, I'm gonna hang on Your regulation.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Exactly. Right. Now, the parent doesn't know this and the child doesn't know this. Right. But they're not actively thinking this way. So cool. So cool. But what we don't know is like, well, you're doing this when you're four or five. By the time you're seven or eight, maybe you don't need to do that anymore because you're good at regulating. So we're not going to say that synchrony is good or synchrony is bad because we don't know yet.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

You know, you probably don't want to be very in sync and in tune with someone who is emotionally unregulated or totally.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Like, you could see it being either very good or very or very bad.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right? Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

You know, you can borrow analogies from adult relationships.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

You know, we don't want to use words too loosely. But that codependency. Right. Like sometimes that's not an awesome thing when you are so enmeshed. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Like. Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

You actually can't even function part who's who. But you know, you're not going to function without each one of those parts doing really well.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right. And we can imagine that synchrony plays a different role with a four year old than it does with an eight year old. It might. And it might make total sense.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So we can't predict out. What's interesting is one of the associated analyses showed that the children with the fearful temperament didn't show as strong synchrony during the stressful puzzle, but they seem to be more elevated in synchrony during the relaxed coloring after the puzzle. Like they were synchronizing with their parents during recovery.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Not during the stress.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

That's so interesting. And was there some kind of difference between the parents who experienced high levels of stress versus the parents who didn't in those higher stress moments?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And that we don't know yet. So we're still analyzing the data. Right. So one of the nice things about is that we have neural functioning, we have cardiac so we can look at their stress in terms of cardiac response. But we also have videos of them and that we're hand coding and that takes so long. We're hand coding their emotions, their behaviors. And so the hope is to see what are the different things that impact the synchrony. We're so early in this type of work that we really don't understand what shapes it, what predicts it, what does it predict? When can we say it's good? When can we say it's Bad. We tend to default to oh, a strong connection with your parents must be good. And 90% of the time I would argue it is.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

That's what we've been talking about this whole hour. But there are probably times where, and developmentally it's important to have some independence, to have some agency.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

No, that might be really interesting if, if like over time it doesn't adapt in a different kind of way, does it become, does it go from super healthy scaffolding and co regulation to something's not going right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right. And we know as parents intuitively and as researchers that we don't interact with a 5 year old the way we interact with a 15 year old. And an inability to adapt as a parent, it's not good for the child. All of the tips and the tricks that worked when they were young, some of them aren't going to work anymore when they're teenagers. The relationship is still there. The foundation, the love, the respect, that connection is still there. But your daily interactions, the language you use, the freedom you give them, the respect you give them is going to be quite different because now you're preparing them for adulthood to move into a more independent sphere. And if you can't give them those tools now, that's as inadaptive as being overly controlling when they were five.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

There's so many more things to discuss. Holy moly. I'm really looking forward to following up when you get more data, by the way.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Will do.

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Okay, one last thing. I don't know if we should keep this in or cut it out because I'm not sure if, if, if it useful. But I'm curious, like, and I think this is partly because my training was much more like focused on attachment relationships. So temperament, of course, was like always part of the conversation. But it's so much more interesting to me now. And I think that's because there's so much being said about what's good or not good for kids. And I keep thinking, yeah, but what about for the kids for whom this doesn't matter? Like, like there are so many things that we're like, this is terrible for kids. And I'm thinking not all kids, some kids are fine with that.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And so I'm wondering, like, is so much of what we're talking about in the world of like what's going on with kids, mental health and what's going on with social media and what's going on with pandemics and all sorts of things. Is temperament going to have an influence on every one of those things, such that if you, like, took out just the kids who were more vulnerable because they have a higher sensitivity, and then you looked at the same risks, would it be as risky?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Correct. And I think that by almost by definition is the way we often approach our research and our recommendations based on temperament, that every child has a temperament. And so every child is slightly more or less sensitive to some aspect of their environment. And it can't necessarily be that everything is good and everything is bad. Now, caveat, right? We're not saying that being abusive or being.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Right. That's a. No, no brain off the table. Like, if you're listening to raising good humans, we're not doing that. We're not talking about abuse and neglect.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

No, no, no. But the notion that you should never allow your child to be near a phone.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Probably a Is unrealistic. In the world we live, at some point your child is going to go somewhere by themselves and you're going to want to have to be able to reach them, track them, figure out what they're up to. Does that mean that we immediately hand a phone to every child as soon as they're able to press. I was going to say press buttons. They don't have buttons anymore. That's my age showing there.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

I still remember going somewhere and getting like a quarter from my dad so that I could call him from the pay phone and just randomly tell him, four hours later, hey, I'm at the library. Come pick up.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I'm ready to be picked up.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

He had no clue where I was for the last four hours.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But I was a word. And so he trusted me.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

To roam. Because where did I roam? To the library. In the same way, for some children, you can give them a phone and they will use it as a tool. Other children may not. We know that for some shy children during the pandemic, social media was a conduit for them to continue having social bonds.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

That for these children, being able to speak with a friend via Zoom or FaceTime, being able to go online and see others was very helpful. We know that children from communities where they might feel marginalized or separate from the mainstream social media might be the first time they see others that are just like them and they're not as alone as they feel the danger became. As we moved Away from some of the social restrictions is that some children didn't put the phone down and go back into the social world. They stayed online. And online became a substitute for person to person social interaction. So again, social media, online interactions are a supplement, not a replacement. And so it's observing your child, seeing how they use social media, seeing what the outcome is. If they seem depressed or overly critical, then the social media is probably picking on or tweaking something that was already there. And that might be a time to talk, to intervene, to limit, but it is very much, again, these are tools. We have to teach our children how to interact with these tools before they're out into the world by themselves. I think even if we're not thinking about social media from a social component, but critical thinking, what is misinformation? What is fake news? What is an algorithm? How do you discern that this inanimate object is giving you messages that are based on a math formula? And you're not getting random messages. You're not necessarily seeing an unbiased view of the world. The algorithm is shaping how you view the world. And so you want to teach your children that so that they now know, oh, yes, for some reason, my feed is all about calorie restriction all of a sudden. And rather than my saying, everybody's on a diet, everybody's restricting calories, I should too. I figured out that I need to take this supplement.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

They now have the critical thinking like, oh, I wonder why my feed is like this now. And so we can give them tools that I think move back and forth between the social component, but also the critical thinking component.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So, so as we're thinking about temperament, can you also talk a little bit about our temperament and how that might play into our, you know, the fit between ourselves and our children?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yes. So this is one of the things that came out very early in the research in the 1950s and 60s was this notion of what they called, and we still call goodness of fit, the match between the parents, temperament or personality. Because now into adulthood, we now have these fully fledged personalities.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Actually, can I interrupt you? And then I want you to come back to that, can you please? Because I think people, I think people would benefit from hearing kind of the trajectory, because we, the temperament is the biological basis. And now when we think of adults, we're thinking about, like, your personality is the environmental input to this biological temperament.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

So, okay, so one of the things we think about when we are studying temperament or observing infant and child temperament is that it's a foundation it's the foundation for later personality. Personality is based on temperament. And we know that temperament is based on biology, but we know that personality can be so much more. And what we often say is that the personality you show is the addition, the summation, the interaction of all the events that occur to you, all the things that you've done over the years that build on temperament. So we can be gregarious and extroverted. We can be introverted. The shy child is more likely to be an introvert. The exuberant child is more likely to be an extrovert. But the ways in which that's expressed and the ways in which we show our personalities and live in the skin of our personalities is based on their interactions with others. So if I'm an introvert, and that wasn't really valued over time, I might feel bad about the fact that I'm an introvert, right? And that might me make me second guess my personality and how I behave. Same thing with extroverts, right? Oh, he's too much. We see and we learn how to shape our presentations of ourselves. So parents have a personality. We know that they're humans. Sometimes we forget that parents are humans and we have our babies. There is a growing area of research where it's often called mind mindedness. And it's asking parents, what's your view of your child or your infant? How do you see the way your infant sees the world? It's like Inception, right? You're like you're folding your brain and trying to figure out how your child sees the world, right? So if you're a very extroverted, bold, positive person, it's going to be a bit of a shock to you to recognize that your child doesn't see the world the same way. And it might take you a little longer to recognize that. And there we might think of it as a bit of a mismatch, less goodness of fit. And so for that parent, they might have to take a step back and realize while you as an individual or you in your memory as a child would have just run onto the playground, pick somebody at random and go, hey, let's go play. Your child is petrified and would never do that ever. And so you're going to have to scaffold that behavior for them. Same other way around. You're a shy, restrained person. Your child is the life of the party and is in 15 clubs. And before you know it, you need to interact with other people because they're interacting with other people, right? Suddenly you're going to parties and you're going to play dates and you're going to clubs, and suddenly you're now in charge of the snacks at the game. All of this is new to you. You have to adapt to it, but you have to do it in a way that doesn't tell your child, no, I don't like being around other people. So you can't be in this club.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And so goodness of fit can be something where the better the fit, the better the outcome for the child because the parent is more sensitive and more intuitively understands what the child is feeling.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

So if they're, you know, if. If they're more adaptable adults and their child is a little bit more sensitive and they don't acknowledge that that's a biologically based temperament, they might get frustrated or impatient and then accidentally grow that trait even more extreme.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right, exactly. So in general, when we say goodness of fit, we assume that having a match is more positive, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a complete match where the parent and the child are just mirror images of each other. It could be that this parent is just sensitive and attuned. And because they're sensitive and attuned, they can see that their child is more reticent or exuberant and adapt to that. That's a good fit as well. A rigid parent would be less of a good fit, even if it means that, oh, they're both reticent, they're both shy on that level, you would think, oh, that's a good match, but not necessarily, because then they're reinforcing that in each other. So it's a more subtle. What do we mean by a good fit between parent and child?

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And are there dimensions? I mean, this goes to sort of a whole other layer of this. But your temperament is more sensitive in certain areas. Maybe your physical self has a more sensitive way of being, but it's not the case when it comes to other things. Is temper. Are there dimensions to temperament that we should be paying attention to?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yes. So when we think I. I've been using a lot of examples from the area of research I do.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Because that's where our go to move is. And I tend to study shyness, reticence, anxiety, but there are a lot of temperamental traits. Activity level is a temperamental trait. So Janet DePetro, who was a researcher at Johns Hopkins University, had this whole series of studies where she did sonograms of pregnant women and looked at the activity level of their unborn baby and then brought them back to the lab multiple times months later. And she could predict their activity level based on their in utero activity. So when people say my baby was born running, they mean it? Yes. Activity is a temperamental trait. Sensitivity to the environment, sensory sensitivity is a temperamental trait. Some children are more sensitive to sound, to touch, to, to taste. There, there are some babies that will be more reactive to texture of food. They're not pretending. They really do notice things that you may not or that I may not.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Self regulation, the ability to regulate is a, is in part a temperamental trait. It's a little more complicated than emotional reactivity because it doesn't appear quite as early as for some children, they can, they're better able to regulate and so it's easier to scaffold regulation for them. So all of those things are temperamental traits. They're biologically based, they're early appearing and they're relatively stable. And some traits tend to go together. We think that the shy, fearful temperament tends to often have sensory reactivity. Not always, but we think those two tend to go together less so for the exuberant child because they're not getting those signals that tell them to slow down.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

They're feeding off of the environment. And that's why it can become so complicated, but also why it comes together to create really complicated personalities. And it's, you can think about it. When we take the analogy of eating food, everybody has to eat. We like some foods better than others. Is there a rhyme or a reason to it? I like salty, you like sweet. No, it's not. One is better than the other. It's just our natural tendency. Some people have allergies, others do not. Fruit, blueberries. Love it. Vitamins, fiber. If you're allergic to it, don't eat the blueberries. We're not saying blueberries are bad. We're saying for this child, do not give them the blueberries. It's going to be bad. This child should not be having milk. We're not saying milk is bad. We're saying for this one child, they don't tolerate it well. And so we're saying everybody has to eat. Food is good for you. There are no good foods. There are no bad foods. But for you as an individual, you get to learn which foods make you feel better, which foods make you feel worse, which foods give you the yums, which food give you the yucks. And you learn to incorporate more. So it's not to say, oh, I don't like vegetables, so you're never going to eat a Vegetable ever again. Oh, I'm scared of social interaction, so I'm not going to make you engage in the social world at all. We're going to say, yeah, broccoli, not your favorite, but we're going to slowly get you to eat it. Going into a social play date. Not your favorite, but we're going to help you get to feel comfortable with social interactions.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

There's so much cool stuff with temperament. Thank you so much for talking to us again about this.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

I think so. It's so exciting, and I'm so glad that I was able to do this with you today and do masterclass with you.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I know. I'm so excited. So it's so appreciated that you're able to say to everybody, hey, this is. This is a little bit more complex, right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But I also feel bad about that because I think sometimes, I mean, if it were true, I would have figured it out myself. Is like, five easy steps of parenting. Memorize these five steps and you'll be good for 25 years.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

No, I know, believe me, because I wrote a book and they. The. The publishers were. I didn't even choose the title, Five Principles of Parenting. And I'm like, sure, right, but principles.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

That seems better.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

But that's the best I could offer, like, overarching themes.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But I think that's right, because that's everything we've been talking about, like, the general principle. But then the application of that principle.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Depends on temperament or the circumstance or.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

The culture or the socioeconomic network values.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Like, and on and on. So it's tricky. But I think these foundational, like, conversations help so much because I know so many people that feel so heartbroken that they're, like, not. They're. They're not cutting it as parents. And I think much of that is because we've given this. We've sold this idea. If you do these things, you know, you're not gonna have an anxious kid or you're not gonna. Your kid's not going to. Or going to follow all the directions or it's not gonna compromise their attention skills or, I don't know, name it. So I think it's very helpful and I appreciate it.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And there are the bumps in the road, and we just gotta know that, right? Like, I remember my daughter's gonna kill me. One year I was out of town giving a talk, and she had a party, and it turned into one of those 1980s teen movies where, like, 50.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

People got out of control.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

You don't even know who they are. So I woke up to Texts from the neighbors. Did you know? And I'm like, like, oh, my God, I can't walk the dog anymore.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Like, at one point a police officer drove by because there was a noise alert. And I'm like, what kind of parent doesn't know. What kind of child didn't realize that this was going to get out of control and immediately shut it down?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Like, she thought she could, like, control.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Manage it.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Manage it. And how am I going to look at my next door neighbor in the eye when I'm the mom whose daughter had the wild. And like, it happened. It was now was like Halloween. That was the thing. It was Halloween.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

That's a flag of 22.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Halloween of 22. So she was 17, right? 16. 17. And it's three years later. Hasn't happened before. Hasn't happened since. It was that tentpole event. Like, oh, my God, I am the crappiest mom.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Ugh. It's a horrible feeling.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah. Now, have either of my children ever been arrested? No. Have they ever committed a major crime? No. Are they generally good, loving, caring people? Yes.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

It was a dumb party.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

It was a dumb party. But in the moment.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

I'm like.

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Of course.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And you're like, I know this.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But in the moment.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

But in the moment we just like. But I think distance is very helpful. Just like stepping back and you're like, oh, wait, yeah, we got through that. Didn't happen again, by the way. I think to me, in that story, a, a, a boundary was crossed and not again. You know, it was. The lesson was learned. Clearly. There was repair. And now it's like.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And tomorrow I put her on a plane to Berlin. I mean, come on.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And off she goes.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Off she goes.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I hope that goes well, I feel.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, she has. She made good friends while she was there. She get. She's going back.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

That's so cool. Just those cool life experiences.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

I know. I just wish I had made them a little shyer, a little more reticent, a little less.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Like, no, because I've got. I've got one who will go anywhere and do anything. My older one, and. And then I have one who would like to come right back into the womb.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

And you were. You know, I do.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

My older one is a little bit like that. Like, you know, she'll be in her apartment. Well, right now she has no electricity, but hopefully she's at a library or something. But, like, if she could spend a week in the house without leaving it, she would.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I have the same. And I'm the same.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Like, as a personality type, I'm officially like that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Like, sometimes I, I, I'm so happy when I go out, though. But I have to be reminded that that's fun.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah. And, and, but that, again, it's like, we know what we're like, and we know how to work around it. Because if you were truly homebound, you wouldn't be doing a podcast. You wouldn't be doing this.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Totally.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Yeah. Right? So people are like, oh, you're not shy. Deep down, I see myself as a shy, reticent person who has learned tools.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

But you have to get up in front of so many people all the time.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

And so what I'm doing is I'm implementing my tools. I'm not being. And I, you know.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting. And, you know, I do, I do think there is something so beautiful about watching the, like, range of these kids unfold. I just think it's so cool. And just looking at people and thinking, God, even my husband, because we only recently got married, I was like, I'm so fascinated what different temperaments we have, and our personalities couldn't be more different. And, like, he'll walk into this room, no question, and he will notice, like, the five things that are just, like, a little hair out of place. And until he puts them back in their rightful place, he will be agitated in his own body.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

You know what I mean? So, like, he knows how to deal with that. He'll just put him in his place. Whereas I would never even notice. Like, I remember doing a zoom with my headphones, and I had a massive tangled wires or whatever cord. And first I did the zoom with my Mount Sinai group, and there were, like, eight people on there, and nobody said anything to me. Then I saw him, and he was like, can I please untangle those? Meanwhile, I didn't even notice. So I said something to the people in my. On my team, because we were laughing about it, and they were like, three of them were, like, it was stressing me out the entire time. I just wanted to grab your thing and untangle it. And I never noticed. Like, it just wasn't even. And I just think those things are so interesting because for one person, that would ruin their entire zoom.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Right, Right. Like, our environment. You're sitting in the same room with him, but your perception of what the environment is and the signal, it's giving you of safety, of stress, of ease or unease. Is it sometimes, you know, in the work I do, we call it the experienced environment. There's the objective.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

You're both in this room. This is a very lovely room. Everything is great.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

But your experience of that room is quite different.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Oh, I love that.

[Dr. Corali Perez Edgar]

Your need to repair or fix or change is very different. That's why you could have two kids go to school, be in the same classroom, come home and report, how was school today? And one will say, horrible. Everybody was looking at me. This is this, this is that. And the other child was like, oh, it was fine. We just did the project. And every. You know, the. What you see, what you notice, what you internalize, what then fuels you is not objective.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I love that so much. The experience experienced environment versus the objective environment to in whatever capacity you could make it the objective environment. That's so cool. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.