Ep 399 - How to Get into History Books + Daughter of Daring!

Summary

Reading Glasses Podcast Episode 399 Summary: "How to Get into History Books + Daughter of Daring!"

Release Date: February 20, 2025

In this vibrant episode of Reading Glasses, hosts Brea Grant and Mallory O’Meara embark on an engaging journey through history books, celebrate Mallory's newly released biography Daughter of Daring, and explore practical tips for readers. They also share personal reading choices, listener feedback, and review a book-related gadget—a candle warmer—adding both depth and variety to the discussion.

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1. Introduction: Celebrating Daughter of Daring

The episode kicks off with Brea and Mallory announcing the celebration of Mallory's new book, Daughter of Daring, a biography chronicling the life of Helen Gibson, America’s first stuntwoman. This segment sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of history books and their significance.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [00:13]: "It is a book about history… we test out a candle warmer."

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2. Current Reads: Exploring Diverse Genres

Brea's Sci-Fi Adventure: Brea shares her current read, The Deep Sky by Yumi Kitase, a science fiction novel that intertwines murder mystery elements within a space voyage narrative. She highlights the book’s unique structure, combining literary fiction with intricate character development.

Notable Quote:

• Brea Grant [01:28]: "It's like murder mystery, literary fiction, two timelines, and you kind of just learn more and more about the people on the ship."

Mallory's Romantasy Finale: Mallory discusses the final installment of the Mead Mishaps trilogy by Kimberly Lemming, emphasizing its blend of romantasy and light-hearted storytelling. She praises the series for its engaging mix of romance, magic, and humor.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [03:06]: "It's so much fun. I love it. It's filthy. It's romantasy."

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3. Listener Feedback: Building a Community of Readers

Connecting Through Books: Meredith shares a heartwarming experience where discussing books with her surgeon and resident led to meaningful connections during a hospital stay. This anecdote underscores the podcast’s role in fostering a sense of community among listeners.

Notable Quote:

• Meredith [05:18]: "Thanks for the podcast as it just fuels my reading life so much."

Embracing a Non-Tracking Approach: Doug expresses appreciation for the hosts’ advice on abandoning rigid book tracking systems in favor of personal note-taking, which enhances his reading experience without pressure.

Notable Quote:

• Doug [06:21]: "I just write what I think. And I don't record any info about the publisher or author information or even a rating."

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4. Spotlight on Daughter of Daring

Unveiling Helen Gibson's Legacy: Mallory delves into her new book, Daughter of Daring, which not only narrates Helen Gibson’s adventurous life but also sheds light on the broader contributions of women in early Hollywood. She emphasizes the intertwining of personal stories with the historical context of the film industry.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [17:02]: "It's Helen's story, but it's also the whole story of the environment that produced her."

Bria’s Insight on Women's Roles: Bria complements Mallory’s insights by highlighting the often-overlooked historical presence of women in Hollywood, reinforcing the book’s importance in reclaiming these narratives.

Notable Quote:

• Bria Grant [17:54]: "It's weird that we've forgotten and erased a lot of those histories."

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5. Women in Early Hollywood: A Historical Perspective

The Rise and Marginalization: The hosts discuss the significant roles women played in early Hollywood, from screenwriters to directors, before the industry shifted towards a male-dominated business model in the 1930s. They explore how economic changes led to the marginalization of women and other minorities in the film industry.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [20:45]: "Women were there from the beginning, got shoved out quite a bit, and shaped what we know of Hollywood now."

Bria’s Reflection on Modern Implications: Bria draws parallels between past and present, noting how understanding this history can inform current discussions about diversity and inclusion in the arts.

Notable Quote:

• Bria Grant [19:20]: "I just thought that was such a really poignant line."

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6. Testing the Candle Warmer: A Practical Review

Initial Challenges: The conversation shifts to a practical review of a candle warmer sent by listener Trisha. Brea and Mallory share their initial struggles with the device, including issues with melting new candles and the device’s short cord length.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [41:24]: "I was like, oh, well, I should test it out as a mug too. And I opened it up and I was like, wow, this is a very short cord."

Constructive Feedback: Despite the mishaps, the hosts provide thoughtful feedback on how the product could be improved, suggesting longer cords or top-down warming mechanisms for better functionality.

Notable Quote:

• Brea Grant [40:58]: "I think the mug itself would get too hot. I think the handle would get hot."

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7. Listener Question: Supporting Authors through Pre-ordering

Understanding the Impact: Sarah poses a question regarding the effectiveness of pre-ordering books through different retailers—Amazon versus indie bookstores like Bookshop.org—on supporting authors. The hosts address the nuances of this choice, acknowledging Amazon’s significant role in bestseller rankings while advocating for the benefits of supporting local and independent bookstores.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [47:13]: "Pre ordering is always going to help in some way. It's just up to you what path you're going to take if you order books from Amazon."

Bria’s Affirmation: Bria reinforces the message by emphasizing that any form of support is valuable, encouraging listeners to choose the option that best aligns with their values and circumstances.

Notable Quote:

• Bria Grant [48:02]: "Buying the book is what's important. Ordering the book from the library, that's what's important. Reading the book is what's important."

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8. Conclusion: Embracing a Diverse Reading Life

Wrapping up, Brea and Mallory encourage listeners to explore a variety of history books tailored to their interests, share their passion for supporting authors through thoughtful purchasing choices, and stay connected through the podcast's community. They highlight upcoming events, such as book launches and collaborations, underscoring the ongoing commitment to enriching the reading lives of their audience.

Notable Quote:

• Mallory O’Meara [48:15]: "So if you wanted to solve your reader problem or answer your bookish question, you can send it to [e-mail]."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of Episode 399, providing listeners—both existing and new—with a clear overview of the discussions on history books, the celebration of Daughter of Daring, engaging listener stories, practical gadget reviews, and thoughtful insights into supporting authors. Brea and Mallory's dynamic conversation offers valuable perspectives for all book enthusiasts seeking to deepen their reading experiences.

Transcript

[Bria Grant]

Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're listening to Reading Glasses, a show about book culture and literary life designed to help you read better. I'm author and book devourer, Mallory O'Meara.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm Bria Grant, filmmaker and e reader. This episode we're talking about. Hey. We're celebrating Mallory's new book, Daughter of Daring, and we're talking about history books, which is. That's what it is. It is a book about history. Plus, we test out a candle warmer.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That I'm thinking about because all y'all.

[Bria Grant]

Told us that we need to get on the candle warmer train. I don't know if we agree. And we solve a reader problem about pre orders.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But first. Bria, what are you reading?

[Bria Grant]

I am reading. You know, we did our event, and I said something about how I used to read a lot of space books, and I don't read them anymore. Well, guess what? I'm reading a space book. I returned. I'm reading the Deep sky by Yumi Kitase. It is. Oh, the little blurb says enthralling, and I was gonna say thrilling. It's science fiction, obviously. It's about a group. Basically, all the world's nations come together, if you can believe it, to send a long voyage spaceship to colonize another planet. And they decide at some point that they only want. They have all these candidates, and these, like, 12 year olds submit to become to be the candidates, because I think they send them when they're, like, 18. So they go and they, like, compete for years against each other in deciding who gets to come, and it's like thousands. And then they whittle it down to 80, and they only allow people who can bear children because they realized about halfway through they needed them to start bearing children so they could populate.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, yeah, they need. They need more.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. So it kind of goes back and forth between that and then being actually on the ship. And it's following this woman, Asuka, who is half Japanese, half American, has lived in both, raised mostly in America, strangely raised in California and lost her house during a wildfire. So that was kind of a strange bit when I was reading it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Weird.

[Bria Grant]

And at the beginning, there's an explosion on the ship, and the captain is killed, and it becomes kind of a murder mystery.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Ooh, yes. You do have a murder mystery in space.

[Bria Grant]

I do. I do. So it's like murder mystery, literary fiction, two timelines, and you kind of just learn more and more about the people on the ship. It's kind of a long book, too. Oh, no. Yeah, it's like 400 pages because it's not that long. It's been really good so far. And, like, the whole time Asuka's trying to figure out who's. Who's doing the murdering. Who did the murdering, who did the murdering. And we also are discovering things about, like, her backstory.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Who did space murdering.

[Bria Grant]

What are you reading?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm reading some smut. Bria. Not even connected to our new podcast.

[Bria Grant]

Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Just reading smut for the love of the game.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Although as of now, our podcast, our new podcast, Reading Smut is out. People should go check it out.

[Bria Grant]

Exactly. We're recording this the day before it comes out. Two days before it comes out.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Two days before it comes out. But it is out.

[Bria Grant]

We're excited for everyone to hear it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. But we'd love to. We love to.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, take out your phone right now. Please subscribe. You don't even have to listen right away. Just subscribe, Give us some numbers, bump us up and take a listen. It's not. Listen if you're like smut. I don't know if that's for me.

[Mallory O'Meara]

We'll help you find out.

[Bria Grant]

We're gonna help you find out. And you will laugh along the way.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You sure will. Okay, so I am reading the final book in the Mead Mishaps trilogy, that Time I Got drunk and Saved a Human by Kimberly Lemming.

[Bria Grant]

A human.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. So the first one is that Time I Got drunk and saved a demon. This is that time I Got drunk and saved a human. I'm not gonna say too much about the plot because what the plot is, is a spoiler for the other books.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, okay. I've read the first one.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, okay. Because there's a character in this book that people think is something happened to in the first book.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But I love. I mean, folks, I've talked about the series so much on the show.

[Bria Grant]

It's very fun.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's so much fun. I love it. It's filthy. It's filthy. Romantasy. It's this world with magic and. And a lot of these demons are sexy, and then they turn into. And they have horns and then they turn into dragons, and it's just a fucking blast. Like. And it. They're also. They're very light reads. That's what I think I really like about them is a lot of romanticity is like, all right, strap in for a fucking 600 page book. This book is like, nope, we're getting right to the magic. We're getting right to the fucking. We're getting right to all of it. So it's a re. I think it's a really great intro to very spicy romantic.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kimberly Lemon, come on. Our smut podcast.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I know. I think I'm gonna reach out. But speaking of it's. It is Black History Month. It is Valentine's Month. What better way to celebrate both than to read some. Some smut written by black authors? So next up in my queue, I also have Beverly Jenkins, who's, like, a legendary romance writer. I got that the last time I went to Rip Bodice. So if you're looking for a cool way to celebrate Black History Month, get some fucking. Get some. Some smut written by black authors. I'm reading that Time I Got Drunk and Saved a Human by Kimberly Lemming.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm reading the Deep sky by Yumi Kitase Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So we want to take a moment to share some listener feedback. Meredith wrote in to say, hi, Brian Mallory. I was having surgery and brought my physical library book to the hospital with me, and it led to multiple discussions with other readers, and it was so nice. While I was on the hospital table ready for surgery, my surgeon's resident said, I heard you talking about reading A Court of Wings and Ruins. We spent the next 10 minutes talking about the series while they were prepping me for surgery. I told her about reading glasses, and she said she would definitely go look it up. Eventually, my doctors had to say, okay, enough bonding. It's time for surgery. Oh, my God. Once in recovery, my doctor and his resident came in and asked if I had any questions. I said yes, and turned to his resident said, so what are you reading now?

[Bria Grant]

Hey?

[Mallory O'Meara]

My doctor just laughed and walked out as me and the resident proceeded to give each other a couple recommendations. I've gotten back into reading the last two years and get so much joy from talking to other people, strangers among them, about books. Thanks for the podcast as it just fuels my reading life so much. I am obsessed with this. To be like, oh, I don't even care what you're. You're cutting me open. Whatever. What are you reading I love so much?

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, that's very funny. Doug wrote in and said, dear Bria Mallory, love the show. Longtime listener. For years, I tracked my reading via Goodreads or my homemade spreadsheet, but I've completely quit. I left this behind because I kept feeling the pressure to read every time I saw it. The number would give me big feelings about how I wasn't reading enough or how I was reading too many short stories, articles, blog slash newsletters. That I didn't log as books. I didn't feel like I was getting much out of it, so I dumped that book log. Dump the book log. Dump the log Instead. Instead, I was just taking. I just take notes as I'm reading on phrases and words that I like, interesting ideas from the text, and thoughts that occur to me. These all go into a folder I can reference if I need to. I just write what I think. And I don't record any info about the publisher or author information or even a rating.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

All the official info is available online. And my thoughts are more useful for remembering a book's quality than any letter, grade or star rating. I love that. Anyway, I thought a perspective from a devoted non tracker might help other glassers who struggle with tracking. I don't know how many books I read last year. And that makes me happy.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is so beautiful. Doug is so free.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I imagine Doug waking up in the morning and like, Pure Moods from 1994 is playing.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Like a beautiful warm breeze, like, makes his eyelashes flutter. And he wakes up and like, he just lives a little, like, Studio Ghibli life.

[Bria Grant]

Like, sounds amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is so beautiful. And also, like, it's so great to know yourself so much as a reader to be like, this stuff is bothering me. I'm going to only record the stuff that means something to me and is helpful to me. Doug, I think you're. You've reached, like, reader nirvana.

[Bria Grant]

I think that's great. This is why I quit many years ago, eight years ago. Quit Facebook because I was like, this is making me unhappy. And I wish I would do that with more things in my life where I just recognize, like, ooh, more bad than good.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

And just move on.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. I'm getting there. Honestly. There's like, if I. My goal as an author is to get to the point where I. My books hit bestseller list with enough regularity that I do not have to be on social media.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That would be my dream.

[Bria Grant]

Wow. But right now, I mean, there are some, but not many.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There are some. I have friends with a few.

[Bria Grant]

Great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it's beautiful for them. But I'm not there yet, so I've got to keep posting pictures of my cats on Instagram and. Thank you. Speaking. This is. This is Daughter of Daring Day. I just want to thank all. All of the reading glasses because I did a giveaway for Daughter of Daring and a lot of people entered and just. Thank you. It's. It's. That stuff means a lot to authors. We can talk about this A little bit more in the. Sorry this is such a tangent but social media makes it so hard to get eyes on your books now. Like the algorithm actively suppresses you promoting anything. So glassers who took the time to repost things or like or comment like, it really makes a difference. And so thank you.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it's been really exciting also just seeing people with our, with our book. Yeah, I, I, you know, I, it's just exciting as a person who doesn't have much tangible media that people buy. It's fun to see people going like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Then Abigail wrote in to say, hey, Bri and Mallory, I've been listening to the podcast for a month or two now and have recently updated my supported shows to include yours. Thank you, Abig. The show has really helped kickstart my reading life after a bit of a slump. I also attached a photo of me and my dog Jake on an adventure because you seem like the kind of people who would really appreciate that and we do.

[Bria Grant]

I wish.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I will show this photo to Bria. And Bria, you want to read Abigail's.

[Bria Grant]

Wheelhouse long fantasy books with lots of fantasy politics, character, death, bring me the pain, body horror and sci fi books that ignore the cool sci fi stuff because the themes and characters are cooler. Love that. I love Bring the pain Pulling up Abigail's. We're gonna see the dog.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Exciting.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Very cute dog.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, I love that dog. Oh yeah. Like a fluffy little. Wow. You know what that dog looks like? This and this. I mean it's not an insult, but do you remember in the Never Ending Story, the nothing. No, I think it looks like nothing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, I do love that dog though.

[Bria Grant]

I know. It's a cool looking dog and that dog kind of looks like the nothing. Yes, but, but like not in about it. Smile. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Very cute. Yeah. Thank you, Abigail. You can email us at reading glassespodcastmail. Do. If you want a list of all the books we talk about on the show delivered to your inbox every month, you can sign up for our newsletter. There's a link in the show notes and folks we talked about at the top of the show. But my book's out. Came out a couple of days ago.

[Bria Grant]

Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bri and I this weekend are launching it at the Los Feliz 3 theater. With support from Skylight Books, we are introducing a screening to a movie called A Hollywood Story, which is really exciting to me personally. So A Hollywood Story is based off of the murder of William Desmond Taylor, who was a famous Hollywood director and like towards the beginning of the golden age of Hollywood. And he was murdered. And it was like a really big Hollywood scandal. And that scandal is part of why the American public started to lose faith in Hollywood and started to think that Hollywood was like a den of sin. And that's. That was like a Jenga piece that helped take down women in film. It's like, you know that meme where it's like one domino here and then it like. Yeah, that, that, like this scandal.

[Bria Grant]

Well, you cover this in your book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So I'm really excited to show the movie and the movie. And so. But the cool thing also about the movie is that there's a scene where. Because the movie is, you know, it's Hollywood exploring itself. And there's a scene where they bring a bunch of silent film actors back, and Helen Gibson's one of them.

[Bria Grant]

Amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it's so sweet. There's. They're like. They're all like, helen Gibson. Yay. It's very cute. So I'm very excited about that. That's Sunday the 23rd, but the book's already out. If you want to get a signed copy of it, you still can. There's a link in the show notes to signed copies from Skylight Books. And I will put a link in the show notes. I'm going to be doing some events around Southern California. I'm coming to Michigan. I'm going to be coming to New York and the east coast in the summer. I'm very excited. If you are interested in getting on that train, talk to your library, talk to your books, local bookstore, see if they want to bring me out. And, Bria, you also have something launching that just actually already launched.

[Bria Grant]

Yes, just came out. I worked on a show that we shot literally four years ago called Unconventional. It's about queer family, queer relationships that are sort of unconventional. It has throuple at the center. It has gay couple who are adopting a baby. There's a lot of things that I think, especially right now, we're at a time where people are really attacking lifestyles that they're like, I don't agree with this. Instead, highlights and celebrates and shows that, yeah, humans are messy, relationships are messy, but isn't it interesting to have ones that aren't necessarily what the current administration would like you to have?

[Mallory O'Meara]

It is very funny.

[Bria Grant]

It's very funny. And it's full of incredibly hot people. I just went to the screening and I was like, everyone in this show is the most beautiful person, beautiful person I have ever seen. Anyway, it's Called Unconventional, it is on Reverie. Reverie is actually free, and you can download it and you can watch it with ads. If you're looking for the Bria Grant episode, that's number four. But I wrote on the whole season with one of my favorite people in the world, Kit Williamson. It was his show. He stars in it. And it just has, like, such a wonderful cast, and it's so lovely. And it's funny. It's so funny. And it's very sexy. And the sex is there. It's upfront, it's personal. It's on the screen. Like, don't. We do not shy away from the sex, which was a big point for Kit, is that a lot of gay sex or queer sex gets put behind. We were like, oh, it's happening. But we don't. We aren't gonna talk about it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're gonna see it, folks.

[Bria Grant]

It's there. It's there. So if you like that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So if you want some sexy queer joy, which I think a lot of people need right now, this is the perfect thing.

[Bria Grant]

It's messy. It's messy joy, but it is a lot of joy. And also, we dive into mental health quite a bit. And I just think it' It's a really fun show. So, yes, please go watch it. Please go download Reverie and click on Unconventional first thing, because then they'll know. That's why you. You downloaded it. And reading Smut. People should subscribe.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes, please.

[Bria Grant]

God, we have too much going on.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I know. Like, there's so much.

[Bria Grant]

Nothing happened for, like, two years, and.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Then now every single thing is happening in the same month. You have your show, we have our book. I have my book, we have our podcast. There's probably something else.

[Bria Grant]

Probably.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, and what's happening next week? Our 400th episode.

[Bria Grant]

Yes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

All in the same month.

[Bria Grant]

Stay tuned.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Thank you, folks. I also want to say, I know it's a lot of promo and we have to do this because this is literally how we feed ourselves. But we just want to appreciate everyone who supported us, who's dealt with all this promo. I know it's a lot coming at you. I know that it's. It's a lot. But we really appreciate it. It means a lot to us, all of your support. We love you so much. So before we talk about history books, we're going to take a quick break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by Factor Factor, which has chef made gourmet meals that make eating well easy. They are dietitian approved and ready to heat in 2 minutes. Designed to help you fuel right and feel great no matter what life throws at you. Bria, these were great.

[Bria Grant]

These were great. And they're convenient.

[Mallory O'Meara]

They're so convenient.

[Bria Grant]

Package ready for a perfect, busy, active lifestyle.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But they don't feel they're not frozen.

[Bria Grant]

They're not frozen. They sit in the fridge and you can get them. I got like some Thai curry. I got all sorts of like, I.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Got a chipotle pepper and potato bowl.

[Bria Grant]

Got that same one. I got that same one. And it can help you feel your best all day long. They got smoothies, they got breakfasts, they got grab and go snacks, add ons or all sorts of stuff for anything that life throws at you.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, it's sometimes you buy fro because as a divorced dad, I do buy frozen meals and sometimes you heat them up and they look like a frozen meal. They look like something that has been forgotten by time. But factor is fresh meals. Like they look like real food and they taste really, really good. So you can eat smart with factor. Get [e-mail] Factor podcast and use code Factor podcast to get 50 off your first box plus free shipp shipping. That's code factor podcast@Factor meals.com Factor podcast to get 50 off plus free shipping on your first box.

[Bria Grant]

Classic Factor podcast. Hey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Hey there.

[Bria Grant]

Do you love reading smut erotica, romance romantasy? Is your e reader full of horny fairies and sexy shifters?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Are your shelves bursting with enemies to lovers?

[Bria Grant]

We're reading Smut, your new fated mate.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Every other Friday we dive into sexy books and talk to the people who love them.

[Bria Grant]

Consider this our meet cute reading smut.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Every other Friday on maximum fun. This week we're talking about history books. How do you find good history books? How do you figure out what type of history you like and what are some of our favorites? So first off, this episode is a celebration of my new adult history book that came out this week. Yay. So let me tell you about it real quick. It's called Daughter of Daring and it is a. It's two things. It's a biography of Helen Gibson, who was America's first stuntwoman. And she had this. This really incredible life. She started out as a rodeo star. She literally ran away with the rodeo when she was a teenager and then got into Hollywood. Started as a background actor, worked her way up to becoming the first working stunt woman and then became an action movie star and did all these things. And I won't spoil things, but sort of similar to Millicent Patrick, everything was taken away from her. And. And it was also taken away from every woman in Hollywood. And. And that's where the book also ties in, because it's not just Helen's story. While I was researching it, I was really blown away by all of the women. Female history that was happening around her. I, even, as someone who's worked in film for a long time, did not realize how many women worked back then.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it's so. It's. It's Helen's story, but it's also the whole story of the. The environment that. That produced her. And if you are someone who loves old Hollywood stories, if you are someone who is very interested in art or film or women's history, but also you just. You know, sometimes I write these books and you're looking for scraps, you know, And I like when I wrote lady from the Black Lagoon, it was like this. The total opposite. It was this one woman doing this one thing, and she was in the sea of guys, and nobody else was doing it. No one else was around her. And it was the total opposite with Helen. Like, you couldn't swing a boom mic in Hollywood without hitting female screenwriters, female directors, female, like, producers. Like, there was just so much. So it was. If you're really down about the state of women in the state of the country right now, read this book. Because there's a lot of. It makes you feel good about being a lady, making stuff.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. It's funny. It was something I didn't expect when reading the book. It centers around, obviously, Helen, who has not been highlighted in history, but really it's a Hollywood history and that. And I love a Hollywood history, and it's an LA history and how LA grew into this boom town. But there's a lot of stuff in it that I feel like, yeah, we talk now where we're like, women. I've got to elbow their way into this industry. And it's like, no, no. Women were there from the beginning, got shoved out quite a bit and shaped what we know of Hollywood now. Exactly. And it's weird that we've forgotten and erased a lot of those histories. I will, like, shout out the Academy museum. I knew a little bit about this era because of that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

They do a really good job at curating.

[Bria Grant]

They are.

[Mallory O'Meara]

They.

[Bria Grant]

If you listen, if you ever go to la, go to the Academy. It's so wonderful.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm going there for Valentine's Day.

[Bria Grant]

It's so wonderful. And also the podcast, you must remember, had a little bit, like, I think she does a great job and it was the first thing I heard about. First time I heard about early female writer and directors in this era was on that podcast. And I was like, wait, what? And it blew my mind. But I think for me as a person in Hollywood, especially at a time where people are like, oh, DEI is under attack, where there were all these programs that were supposed to help and uplift women and people of color and people with disabilities and queer people, but instead, now we're getting rid of all of them. Like, a lot of these programs are actually being shut down. This book was really meaningful to me because it was like, no, no, I belong here.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

You say in the book, when talking about progress, people usually look to the future. This book looks to the past. And I. That was really. I just thought that was such a really poignant line.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, thank you.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, because especially a lot of conservatives are love to peddle this lie that America, you know, has always been, oh, we have to get back, back to a past where, you know, America is all white and all straight and all conservative.

[Bria Grant]

It's built on a democracy, quote, unquote.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. And it's. It could not be further from the truth. There were more women working back then in Hollywood than there are now. And that a lot of it. What was really fascinating to me is film kind of went on this interesting arc where it started out as a technology in the late 1800s, and then it was completely dominated by men because that was like an area where, you know, women were not allowed to get education, so they didn't have access to this. But then it, because of a female filmmaker, moved into the world of art. And it was there for a couple of decades. And when it was art and it was. It like was this totally new realm. No one really knew what to do with film. Like, and it wasn't regulated like, there were tons of women. There was an all black production company called the Lincoln Picture, or Lincoln Picture Company, I can't remember the full name, that, like working in the early, like 19, before 1910, I think it was like 1905 or 1907. Like, there was so much cool stuff happening. But the problem is in the 1930s, after the Great Depression, Wall street came in and it went from being an art to being a business.

[Bria Grant]

Right. Which I think we're in that era, it's becoming even more where it's all about the shareholders now. It's about, oh, you know, these companies are public companies and we have to make money every year. We have to increase what we're making, which is why the unions are striking, because we're like, hey, you're increasing your profit, but we aren't seeing any of the money. And you care more about this huge profit increasing rather than making, like, the art that we all kind of. You got a bunch of, like, little artsy kids here trying to make literally exactly what happened.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So that's, you know, women got pushed out, filmmakers of color got pushed out, and queer filmmakers, like, there. There were a lot of queer. Like Dorothy Arsener was making movies about open relationships. Yeah, Dorothy Arsener, who's an incredible out lesbian director in the 1920s and 1930s. Like, there were women making movies about many movies about abortion in the 1920s. So this idea that like. Like, we have to get back to this past. That past was gay as hell. Yeah, that past. Like, there were tons. There were more women. Like, it was a city of women. And the thing that also is really cool to me is it wasn't just women working in the industry. The film industry was built on female audiences, which is something that I did not know, and I think a lot of female filmmakers also don't know, is that the industry was built. Even male filmmakers worked to. To appeal to women because they wanted to get women into theaters. And that's what changed the entire industry. It was built on women going to the movies.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So, like, there was just so. And we still make up a very.

[Bria Grant]

Large portion, 51% of everyone. Yeah. And people forget about that. Okay, so as a historian, we're about to talk about history books. How do you go about uncovering these sort of untold stories? Do you have a time machine?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I wish. My time machine is called newspapers.com immediately. Really?

[Bria Grant]

Newspapers.com.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There'S newspapers.com. actually, the one that helped me more. It's called Media Lantern. If anyone's doing research, my friend Ned Comstock, who used to be the, like, head archivist over at the USC Cinematic Arts Library. We. We met on lady from the Black Lagoon. And at this point, I can't do a film history without Ned helping me, but he told me there's this website called Media Lantern, and they have archives, digital archives of every film magazine you could imagine. And I went, I, probably not exaggerating, read a thousand different articles and newspaper clippings and interviews and stuff for this. And that's what it. Like, that's what it takes. I found out about Helen working on Girls Make Movies, and I was so obsessed with her immediate. Because when we think about stunt women, we think like the 80s. You think of Linda Hamilton you think of Sigourney Weaver. Like, I. It kind of blew me away that, like, the first great age of women in stunts was in the tens.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Like, that's wild. Like crazy.

[Bria Grant]

I mean, literally no pads, heels, and. And skirts.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. Like, Helen Gibson was doing the same stunts that Tom Cruise does, but with no wires, no green screen, no, no, no safety.

[Bria Grant]

We don't suggest it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Don't do it.

[Bria Grant]

Don't do it. I kept thinking about, like, those kind of like, slick little boots that she was wearing, and I was like, traction. Sometimes I accidentally almost fall, like it. Walking around my house. Yes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And she was driving a motorcycle onto a moving train with them. So I became obsessed with her. And I called Ned and we talked and he was like, you got to go on Media Lantern. And I started and. Because the cool thing about her is because she was so famous. Like, her. Like, she was a star.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

In that time period. So there were tons of interviews with her, tons of articles about her. I just had to do a lot of digging and do a lot of reading and.

[Bria Grant]

Are you taking notes on this? Like, what are you doing?

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's just I'm taking a ton of notes, I think.

[Bria Grant]

Are you long handed or long handed? Long handing, I think.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Daughter of daring was 12 notebooks.

[Bria Grant]

Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And I organize each notebook by subject and time period.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, nice. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So then when I write, when I go to transcribe it, then I just have them all in order.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, that's smart.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There's a lot of highlighting. There's a lot of colored post it tabs. Because I. I organized the whole book by Helen's story. And then the. Her. Her context, because there's a. I talk about her on the show all the time. She's my, like, one of my favorite nonfiction writers, but trustee McMillan Cottam, she wrote this really great essay about how when you are writing history, you have to read around your subject. You can't just write about your subject. You have to write about the world that they're in in their context. So I. And while I was finding out about Helen's context, that's when the book changed because I was like, I have to write about all these women. I have to write about all of this. So, like, like, it was all color coded between Helen's story and then the story of those around her. And you just start to build it from there. I wish I had a time machine. I'd love to hang out with her. She'd be fun as she was. One of my favorite things is late in her Life. She was still, like, speeding and in her. In her 80s.

[Bria Grant]

I love that. I know. That was a really funny little bit about it. It seemed like she had, like a. She settled down and had a nice life afterwards. Surrounded by family, even.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

But she was still doing stunts until she was 16.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Sixteen, I think 69 years old.

[Bria Grant]

I mean, it made me go like, hey, Brie, I need to get in better shape.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Oh, I still. I make noises when I get out of bed in the morning. And hell, like, her last film, she was driving a team of horses at 69 years old.

[Bria Grant]

Wow. Amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I know. So, Bria, do you read a lot of history?

[Bria Grant]

So I do have two American studies degrees, which is a. Basically, like. It's funny, at the time, we always used to say American studies was history without. About the war or the presidents. So it was like cultural history.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Which is. I mean, the stuff that we.

[Bria Grant]

You and I both write, it's more micro history.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

And I used to read so many of those in college and in grad school and then. And I kept reading them. That was still, like, my major interest, but I've sort of gone away from that. I'm not. I'm definitely not reading, like, a compendium. A big. I was just called it an omnibus, which is kind of what I think of it of history anymore. And I used to read a lot of them, but I think the specific micro histories do help me to continue to read them. So, like, a book about World War II is not going to get me, but a book about, like, a bandage they used in World War II. I'm, like, interested.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. I want to. We. I think both of us, like, an interesting angle.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, an interesting angle or a specific thing. And I did read, like, I have read. I read a book about the plague. Like, I have read some, like, specific books like that, but I'm way more interested in, like, the history of the germ or something.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I did just put everything Is tuberculosis on hold at the library today.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, is it available?

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's available.

[Bria Grant]

Doing it now.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There's like, 300 people in line.

[Bria Grant]

I'm. I may just buy it. I just.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You might want to buy it.

[Bria Grant]

I might just buy it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Buy it by the audiobook.

[Bria Grant]

What about you? How much? You must be reading a lot of history.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Love reading history. I don't read history while I'm working on a history book because I don't want someone, like, another writer's writing style to affect me.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's like when you keep a big onion in your fridge. And you don't want it to make all the other things taste like onion. So you have to.

[Bria Grant]

Now are you keeping an onion in your fridge?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

A cut up one or a regular?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Both.

[Bria Grant]

You don't have to do that. I know, but I don't counter.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't have a lot of counter space so I keep it in my crisper drawer. Okay, that's fine because I don't. Don't have a lot of counter space, but I have a lot of fridge space because my fridge looks like a divorced dad.

[Bria Grant]

Nice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But because, so, because of that I don't, I don't read history while I'm working on a history book. But my next two books, I, I can't. We are not announcing what it is yet, but I sold another book. So I'm working on my first novel and my next nonfiction. But neither of them are History of Onions. The history of Onions.

[Bria Grant]

Honestly would read actually.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. I love onions. So I, I will be able to read History Forbidden. And I. And I have been. It's been pretty much my favorite type of nonfiction to read since I was a kid. I've always really liked history. And I was wondering if this is what. Because you. Now we're talking about this next episode. But you read a lot of science books now.

[Bria Grant]

I've moved.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Taken over some of your history reading.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean we could talk about. Yeah. In part I think it's because like of personal reasons, familial reasons and worrying about hereditary diseases that, that has like taken them. So a lot of brain stuff has become more interesting to me and sort of like, like instead of reading self help books I kind of read like oh, what can I do to make sure like these like long term diseases may not hit me as young as. Or, or at all. But hopefully not in my, in my younger years. So that kind of took over I think at some point and it was probably around the time my father got sick honestly. So probably about 15 years ago. But yeah, that has taken over my history stuff. My non. In non Fiction.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. And I think I stayed because I, I think I used to do more science and now I'm more history. But I think both of us, I like a history that is looking at something through a very specific lens. Either a micro history or like like I, the, the women's histories that I write. Like a specific woman, like someone's life. Like I like it personalized.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because I think especially if you're getting into reading history, it can be kind of overwhelming. Like it's because it's especially like a really broad genre, like World War II books. But if you're doing it through someone's life, like someone's guiding you through, or like, like I'm trying to think of micro histories that I liked over the past few years. I read her name is Amy Brady. I read the history of ice, the history of.

[Bria Grant]

Of women exercising about me that I.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I know you love ice.

[Bria Grant]

Love ice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

If we love ice.

[Bria Grant]

If they're like ice or no ice, I'm like, why would you even bother not bringing the ice in?

[Mallory O'Meara]

The Bria's ideal meal is a cup of ice and a jar of olives.

[Bria Grant]

It's really. Oh, wow. Sounds wonderful.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I was thinking about you last night. I. Me and some friends went to a bar last night and I ordered a bowl of olives.

[Bria Grant]

Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because we got in, we got a Mediterranean plate and we were like, man, these olives are good. And I'm like, should I just order a bowl of olives for us, Me and our friends Chris and Chelsea split a bowl of olives. And I was like, man, Bria should be here.

[Bria Grant]

I would, I'd be there. I'd pick up the leftovers.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So for readers who don't pick up a lot of history, where. What's a good place to start? How do you figure out what you like?

[Bria Grant]

Well, obviously think about what you like. So if you like ice, that ice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Book is really interesting.

[Bria Grant]

If you like ice, why not? And also pick up an ice book. Pick up. There's a book about salt you like. If you're a foodie, that's an interesting thing. But also, if you're just interested in like, oh, I watched this movie, it had this actor. There may be a book about that actor. So anything about that thing or person or whatever his. There's a lot of books out there in this history genre now, and I think you could definitely find something.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What else? And also, I mean, if there's an author or person that you like, I mean, John Green is a perfect example, is another one. Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Writes sci fi, but also writes non fiction.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Their book, Four Lost Cities. I. I was just recommending this the other day. So if there's somebody that you like, whether they're a podcast or an author, whatever it is, see if they write nonfiction, check it out. Like, I don't really care that I don't know that much about tuberculosis, but I am interested to read this book.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What else, Bria?

[Bria Grant]

I also think, like, try for more of an easy history, a pop history, a micro History, not academic history. It's much more easy to read and compelling. Mallory, would you say people should look at maybe the publisher to figure this out? Yes. Also the COVID The COVID is going to be like. Like, this is interesting. It's. It's about whatever you. It's gonna be a poppy cover. But also publishers. I. I just remember from when I was in school, it's a very specific kind of, like, academic publishers versus, like.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Like, it's the university of something publishers. Exactly. Like, honestly, I mean, I can spot them from a mile away. But my quick, quick things are, again, university of something press. It means it's academic if you open it up and there's a lot of endnotes. Usually you only see endnotes in academic writing. I use a lot of footnotes, but I'm not used most of the time. I'm not using footnotes to be academic. I'm using. Usually using them to make a joke.

[Bria Grant]

Wait, endnotes are going to be more academic and then footnotes. Oh, I like that. Yeah, that's smart.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because I just. And that's. I mean, obviously there's lots of exceptions, but that's like a quick rule. But if, like a major big five publisher, like, my books come out from HarperCollins, that's pop history or pop science, but it's just easier to read. I can see where. If you're someone who's like, oh, I haven't read a history book. And then you pick up, like, an academic history book and you're like, oh, this is written by academics for other academics. And that might be overwhelming, but, like, you know, the. I read let's Get Physical a couple of years ago.

[Bria Grant]

That looked good.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That it was great. It was like a history of women exercising and like the big exercise boom in the 80s. It was fascinating. Love that. But it was a pop history, and so it's. That's a good place to start. What else? Oh, yeah.

[Bria Grant]

So try. Try a memoir. A memoir history, like raw dog, as everyone knows. I loved that hot dog book and it was kind of winning out of her life. It talked about her break, talked about her relationships, but also was like, I went to try these hot dogs in this city. Here's what was going on with me. But also here's the history of the hot dog from Chicago or whatever. And Mallory's lady from the Black Lagoon is similar.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, yes. And I was also going to say why Fish Don't Exist. Why Fish Don't Exist is another great memoir. I feel quite honored to be in this company, but my Mary Roach does it too. A little Mary Roach does it because Raw Dog is History of Hot Dogs. Lady from the Black Lagoon is like a memoir, biography. And same with why Fish Don't Exist. But yeah, I mean, it's a really great way to, like, you're literally having a guide so you have some memoir to kind of like. It's like, hello.

[Bria Grant]

About the historian themselves.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. Yeah. And I. I like it personally, and that's why I wrote my book like this, because it kind of takes you on the journey of. Of finding this person and. Right. And writing it. So it's like you kind of get like, behind the scenes and see what it's like to. To unearth these people and can kind of get you, at least for me personally, get you excited about finding, you know, this person. I don't do that in Daughter of Daring because there was just too much. Instead of my story. It's. I'm. I wanted to write about the other women of Hollywood, but there's still funny footnotes. There's still funny footnotes. There's still a lot of photos. Yeah. I'm just. I love Helen so much, and I really. It's so funny because when I was working on it, I was like, do we still need books like these? Do, like, do people still care about women in film? Like, if I already said everything that I needed to say, are we kind of past this? And now I'm like, nope, we somehow need it even worse than we did when lady from the Black Lagoon came.

[Bria Grant]

Out, literally more in the last three months than any other time.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. I was like, what the happened?

[Bria Grant]

Was that your big takeaway from writing the book, or do you feel like you had. You learned something from Helen along the way?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, the thing that I. The thing that I learned from Helen is like, the thing that I love about her is she just always went.

[Bria Grant]

For it, like, even when things. I mean, she lost everything.

[Mallory O'Meara]

She lost multiple times. Multiple times it was taken away from her and. But she kept going because. And we're actually. This is something we're going to talk a little bit about in our next episode. But the thing that I think is most important with creative stuff is you got to do it literally for the love of the game. And Helen, that's what, like, it didn't matter how much money she was making. That's not why she did it. She wanted to enjoy the freedom that this. This stuff brought and the. And the pure joy of making like she was. She would be jumping on and off of horses even if she wasn't getting paid to do it. Like, she just loved it. And I think when you were a creative. Creative, especially now, like we were talking earlier, there's so much corporate involved in being a creative person for a living that you can get very wrapped up in. Like, oh, well, should I do this? This. Like, this would sell better people. More people would like this. And it's kind of beautiful to reconnect, to be like, what would I do even if I. If I won the lottery tomorrow, what would I still do if I didn't have to worry about money? And. And Helen was so good at that. And a lot of these women like it. They just, they loved doing this stuff.

[Bria Grant]

Such a good question, too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. And I. And the thing is, I would still write books and I still would do Reading glasses.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, nice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

We. I like doing this stuff. And it was really beautiful to, like, watch this woman who, again, lost everything, but she still just loved it and all the women around her. So it was a beautiful thing to reconnect to. Especially again, when you. When you do this stuff for a living, you can get kind of jaded and be like, oh, well, should I do this? Should I do that? What's going to make me money? And it's kind of great to be like, no, what do I want to do? And. And Helen was good. Would you. Did you get or learn any lessons from Helen?

[Bria Grant]

I mean, that was it. It was like she had such grit, which at a time, I mean, her job is hard. Making movies at that time was hard. It's still hard, but I think it was just hard in a different way at that time. And I just appreciated her grit. She would just be, like, starting a company and it would fail and she'd be like, I'm gonna still keep going, you know, like. And that. To me, I was gonna say, I feel like the one thing I've noticed about people who kind of, you know, you move to la, you meet a bunch of people, and then you don't know where half those people went in, like, five years. And usually they aren't pursuing anymore because whatever reason, I mean, there's things that are just, like, not that fun about the industry.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This industry burns you.

[Bria Grant]

The outing worth it. And it's interesting to just. I'm like, oh, she just. She had a lot of grit. And that was. That's very impressive.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So you can send your thoughts to reading glasses podcastmail.com before we test out a candle warmer, we're gonna take a quick break. Break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by ZOC Doc. Have you ever woken up with a funky symptom? You got a swollen eye, you got a funky looking rash and weird pain somewhere, a cold that won't go away. You immediately google it or you search tick tock to see what's wrong. We have all gone down that rabbit hole. I have really weird food allergies and I wake up with weird rashes all the time. But sometimes times you need a real professional. TikTok is not not going to help you out. You can find them on ZOC Doc but bria, what is ZocDoc?

[Bria Grant]

Zoc Doc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. You can filter doctors who take your insurance or located nearby. That's so important. In Los Angeles I'll be looking at a doctor and it's like, oh, in Santa Monica, Westwood.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, no thanks.

[Bria Grant]

They're good fit for any medical need you may have and also are highly rated by verified patients. Once you find the right doctor you can see their actual appointment openings thing. That is so hard. Sometimes I go to book to Dr. And it's like they're available in six months. That's not convenient. Choose a time slot that works for you and you can instantly book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I cannot tell you how many times I've gone to try to book a doctor and then like they're not even there any. Like I've gone through my insurance and like they don't even work anymore. They don't take this insurance. It's so frustrating finding a doctor. And ZOC Doc streamlines all of that. So you can stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com glasses to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z O c d o c.com glasses docdoc.com glasses glasses glasses. Hello Internet.

[Bria Grant]

I'm your husband host Travis McElroy.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And I'm your wife host Teresa McElroy.

[Bria Grant]

And this is a promo for Schmanners.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's extraordinary etiquette for ordinary occasions.

[Bria Grant]

Every week we're gonna tell you about.

[Mallory O'Meara]

A bit of culture, a bit of.

[Bria Grant]

History, how etiquette still applies in the modern day, all that stuff. We also love to do biographies and.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Histories of and you know, general procedurals how to do etiquette in today's society. So come check it out every Friday on MaximumFun.org or wherever you find your podcasts. Manners, manners. Get it. Time to test out some book tech advances. In Bookish technology. This week's book tech was sent to us by Trisha. And Trisha sent a beautiful little note and I just wanted to. We don't normally read the notes, but I wanted to read this one because it was so sweet.

[Bria Grant]

It was nice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Looking forward to the review. Hope you are both doing well and continue to be safe. This was during the fires. Deep condolences over the loss of David Lynch. I'm grateful for reading glasses during these rough days, Trisha. This really, like warmed our hearts during a really rough time. So thank you so much. So what this is, it's a candle warmer. It's basically a little black hot plate that you can use for candles or mugs at 6.99 on Amazon. So very inexpensive.

[Bria Grant]

Very inexpensive.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What do we think of this, Bria?

[Bria Grant]

Okay, I think maybe we did a user error, but I will talk through it. So we tried this.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't think it was user error. I'm gonna get into this.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. We tied this on a brand new candle. I think that was the mistake. I think this is designed. We had it on for like two hours while we were recording last. And we never got a candle smell.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because it warmed it all the way up.

[Bria Grant]

It works from the bottom, right? So I think if you use it for a lower, more used candle, then it will work great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

And I went and read about how to use a candle war warmer and well, the Internet's great and we were doing it a bit wrong. First people talk about how once it's melted, some of it, you have to remove the melted wax because it'll lose the throw and the smell. So once it's melted, they've talked especially about the top warmers.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I think most candle warmers are from the top down. This is from the bottom up.

[Bria Grant]

And a lot of people, they just buy like wax pieces and melt them instead of using an actual candle for these things. So they just have like a little bowl, they put a candle, some wax pieces that smell good in there and they just do it on that. So I do think maybe this was user air error where we should have done a shorter, shorter candle, a used candle, like, whereas we tried it on a brand new candle.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But honestly, it's good that we did this so we can know what happened. And I mean, it did have a little bit of a throw, but not much.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, not much. That was a heavy. That candle has like a lot of smell though, without even lighting it, which that's a candle someone else sent us, which we need to review. But what did you think about this?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I do think a top down candle warmer would be way better. I think because this is the, the, the, the appeal of this is that you can use it for two. This one you can use for two things. You can use it for candles or for mugs, which I don't think you can heat up a mug in a top down candle warmer.

[Bria Grant]

I think the mug itself would get too hot.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. And it would just be a hot. The first sip would be hot and then the bottom would not be.

[Bria Grant]

I think the handle would get hot.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. So I did test this as a mug warmer as well. And I am mad.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So we test this on the candle and I brought it home and I was like, I'll test it out on a shorter candle or a more used candle. And then I was like, oh, well, I should test it out as a mug too. And I opened it up and I was like, wow, this is a very short cord and it has to be plugged into a wall. It's not a USB cord. This is foreshadowing. I was like, I mean this cord is like less than a foot long, very short.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, I don't remember that aspect.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, we have it right here. It's very, very short. So I plugged it in, which was kind of a pain because I, you know, you have to like, I. It's not very long. So I had to find a, like basically use the plug that's right next to my computer. I had it on my office desk. And at first I was like, oh, this is great. Hot coffee all morning, amazing. And then I slightly bump short ass cord which I had to put in an awkward place because it's so short. And my favorite mug fell onto the floor and broke. Which is from my favorite band that I ordered from Sweden that they don't make anymore. Negative 10 pages.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, two things about this one. Does this mean I get this thing?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because this is my sworn enemy. If I could shoot this with a gun, I would.

[Bria Grant]

Here's what I think that it would be best used for is that I have a lot of candles that still have wax, but the wick is somehow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're a genius.

[Bria Grant]

So like the wick is like it got buried in there under the wax someh. And I feel like I keep those around because I'm like, I'm gonna figure this out one day and I don't. And this could be great for that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You know what? You know those like little tiny candles you get from Trader Joe's? Those wicks Burn out wicked fast.

[Bria Grant]

I don't buy those, but yeah. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I bet you could use this with those.

[Bria Grant]

So I'm gonna try it on that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I, I mean, you're gonna get an extension cord though.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. And then the other thing I was gonna say is imagine listening to the show for the first time and being like, what does a candle warmer have.

[Mallory O'Meara]

To do with reading? Well, so my final part about this is that this is very nice. Nice. I think this is great if you're reading because like, if you are somebody who you don't like, you, you don't want smoke in your house, you don't want an open flame. Open flames next to open pages. Not so good. Or like, if you are reading for a while and you want to keep your mug warm, like, this could be really good. The problem is the short ass cord.

[Bria Grant]

Right. But the mug warmer aspect, it doesn't really work, the short cord.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because who's like, who's sitting like six inches from a plug? Yeah, you have to be sitting on the floor.

[Bria Grant]

I'm still giving it four out of five pages.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm getting negative 10 pages. I would shoot it with a gun, but I can see where. This would be nice if you were some because a lot people, like myself included, I really like using a candle. Like, I, I mean, I have candles that all the time, but I love having a candle lit when I'm reading. And so I can see where this, there's parts of this that would be good, but they have to release a version that either has a USB plug or is even a foot longer so you don't have to sit next to the wall. So again, negative 10 pages. Okay, Patricia, again, thank you so much. We had fun testing this out. Even though it ruined my favorite mug. I don't blame you for, for that. I blame this candle warmer. If you have ideas for book tech for us to test out, you can send them to reading glasses podcast gmail.com or check out our wish list in the show notes. Now let's answer a bookish question from one of our listeners. Sarah wrote in this is such a Sarah question. Sarah says. Hi, Brian, Mallory. I have a conundrum about pre ordering. I want to support my favorite authors by pre ordering their upcoming books, as you have suggested many times times. Sarah, thank you so much from authors everywhere. I thank you. I try to avoid Amazon as much as possible because it's evil and would much rather Pre order through bookshop.org my local indie bookstore, or even directly from the publisher. When it comes to pre Orders being helpful to authors. Are all pre orders equal? Does pre ordering through Amazon help authors more? Because it bumps those books up Amazon list where all the people who use Amazon will see them. Or is it equally helpful to pre order through other sites? Thank you from Sarah, number 3007 763. I also Bria, I we, we have stuff in the do. I asked my wonderful agent, oh great Amy to ask her herself and other agents and she gave us, gave me a really interesting answer that I'm going to read for you.

[Bria Grant]

Please.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Publishers can't say it since Amazon makes up a significant part of their business, but I feel like the general wisdom is not Amazon. Oh, pre ordering from Barnes and Noble helps them order more books from the publisher. And indies are always better if you can order from them. We often suggest authors link to their book via the publisher's website, which will list a bunch of different outlets. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, et cetera. And the consumer can choose the out that they want to order from. So that being said, there is an Amazon algorithm and we see, you know, we've talked about this Amazon algorithm a lot because it is good.

[Bria Grant]

It's good. And that they understand what you want to buy.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. And it makes it so more people shopping on Amazon see the book. But Bria, do you feel, and I, I think I have noticed is I feel like a lot of the most bookish people don't order from Amazon anymore.

[Bria Grant]

I agree, I agree. And if you do, look, no harm, no foul. I just feel like there's a lot of people who are like, oh, I'd rather support bookshop.org I'd rather go to my local indie bookstore. I mean that's the weird thing about as far as like indie businesses go, bookstores are one of the things that are still growing because I think bookish people are really conscious with where their dollars are going.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. And that was a big. Me and my publisher talked about this a couple years ago. There was a big shift because people are just not ordering from Amazon as much anymore. Books.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. And they're more.

[Bria Grant]

Toilet paper. Yes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Toilet paper, yes. Books, no. Bookshop.org took a big chunk of that, which we love. We're bookshop.org affiliates. I order a lot of books from Bookshop. Bookshop. So what I think we're going to ultimately say here is that you're, I mean you're never doing wrong by pre ordering a book because for Amazon it is bumping it up those, those lists. And authors do love seeing getting a little, you know, bestseller flag. I got one for, for Daughter of Daring. I'm happy to see that. But you also are doing good at Barnes and Noble because said earlier, publishers really pay attention to Barnes and Noble and, but also indie bookstores are great for. Because one, one, we love them. Two, there are indie bestseller lists. There are. And show stores that there's an interest in that book and they maybe should host an event, do a signing, whatever it is.

[Bria Grant]

And bookshop.org has its own bestseller.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

You can always find that ourbookshop.org our book was a bookshop.org bestseller. And then it's at the top of the page when those bookish people go and [e-mail] and they go oh, this is what other bookish people are buying. And that's, that's good too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. So it's. Pre ordering is always going to help in some way. It's just up to you what path you're going to take if you order books from Amazon. We wrote this in a. Our book. We're not. It's okay, we get it. It's. It's very convenient. It's one touch of a button. We totally understand. But if you are someone who has a local indie you really like or like because I, some of my indies that I order from aren't local but they ship to me so I still order from them. That, that is, that's always going to be good. Barnes and Noble is always going to be good is never a bad thing for pre ordering. So we absolve you of all guilt around that. It's just sort of what you're, what you want your consumer habits to be.

[Bria Grant]

And you are helping where you are helping. Look, if you're buying the book, you're helping.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

So buying the book is what's important. Ordering the book from the library, that's what's important. Reading the book is what's important. Talking about the book. So just know that you're helping people by doing. I know you want. We know you want your dollars to go to the best place. But buying the book is going to help the author.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, it's going to help no matter where you order it from. Again, we love indie bookstores and they do a lot for the community that Amazon does not do. So that's why we are always encourage. You know, we partnered with Skylight Books to do our event and signed copies of our book and I've been partnering with Skylight Books to do signed copies of mine. Mine. Oh my God. Since the paperback of lady from The Black Lagoon back at like five years ago. I love them. They're wonderful. They, they do a lot for us. You know, Skylight pays their employees really well. Like, it's just there is, you know, we're all trying to make decisions. We. The world is bad and we all feel personally responsible for it. So we're all trying to make decisions as if we can personally save the economy and you cannot. We live in hell. We live in a corporate hell right now. But it does feel better for us and it does do some good. Good to do those little things. But if you're, you know, maybe there's a day where you're tired and you don't want to navigate because there is a difference. Like when I order books from an indie bookstore's website, there are more steps than just clicking buy now on Amazon. I get it. And if you're having a day where you're tired and you're stressed out and you just want to order a quick book and that is going to show up in a couple days, I fucking get it.

[Bria Grant]

Also, I know that sometimes shipping is a problem to some rural areas. So Amazon actually ships to those areas. And that's the thing. I mean, by the book, you're doing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Your best is what we're trying to say. You're doing your best. And that best is helping an author in some way. So don't feel any guilt no matter what you're doing, but we're just giving you some information about what each of those paths and the choose your own adventure of buying a book does. And we don't judge you for. For any way you do it. We get it and we appreciate you even caring enough to. To ask this kind of question. Of course, again, of course it came from a Sarah we love a Sarah we love. So if you wanted to solve your reader problem or answer your bookish question, you can send it to reading glasses podcastmail.com as always, want to thank the wonderful mods who run our Facebook group. And remember, there's all kinds of cool in our Void merch store. There's totes and shirts and sweatshirts. It's been cold as hell in la. If you need a nice cozy sweatshirt to wear, that's where you get it. There's a link in the show notes for that. And if you like the show, please write and review us on the podcast listening app of your choice. It is really great for us and helps us reach more readers. You can email us reading glasses podcast gmail.com. find us on Instagram at Reading Glasses Podcast. Thanks for listening and thanks for reading. Maximum Fun. A worker owned network of artist owned shows supported directly by.