Ep 451 - Being Well Read with Rebecca Schinsky!

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Reading Glasses Ep 451 – Being Well read with Rebecca Schinsky!

Date: February 26, 2026
Hosts: Brea Grant & Mallory O’Meara
Guest: Rebecca Schinsky (Chief of Staff, Book Riot; Host, Zero to Well Read podcast)

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Overview

This episode delves deep into the meaning and value of being "well read." Hosts Brea and Mallory are joined by Rebecca Schinsky, who shares insights from her extensive career in books and her experience running the new podcast Zero to Well Read. The discussion unpacks the expectations and anxieties around reading widely, the flexibility of the term “well read,” and offers advice for anyone feeling overwhelmed about keeping up with the literary world. The episode also features listener questions, cozy book recommendations, and honest conversations about what makes a reader "well read"—and whether it matters.

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What Are the Hosts Reading?

(00:41–04:30)

• Brea is reading The Knockout Queen by Rufi Thorpe, praising its immersive, effortless writing and complex characters.
  • “You start reading, you’re like, wow, I’m so comfortable with where she’s taking me. Like, I’m on the journey in the bathtub.” (01:09, Brea)
• Mallory is reading Humble Cut by Alison Mick, described as eco-horror—“Jordan Peele meets Jeff VanderMeer” and “Redwood Gothic.” She loves its blend of humor with serious themes like eco-terrorism and family secrets.

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Listener Feedback and Community Happenings

(04:30–08:20)

• Shelly from Minneapolis thanked the show for being a “light in the dark,” and shared how Mallory’s recommendation led her to discover Humble Cut.
• Aaron confessed to marking audiobooks as print on StoryGraph for page metrics—“no one's going to care.” (06:04, Brea)
• Emily’s daughter is in a 4th grade reading challenge—40 books in a year—which inspired Emily to explore new reading picks alongside her child.
• Upcoming Event: Reading Glasses Winter Readathon—March 1st, 10am–2pm PT, designed for “short king” readers who want a mini four-hour readathon experience.

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Main Discussion: What Does It Mean To Be "Well Read"?

(09:26–40:26)

Introduction to Guest & Project

(09:41–12:49)

• Rebecca Schinsky introduces the Zero to Well Read podcast, which serves readers who fear being “called out” at a party for not knowing major books.

  “Everyone is walking around with this secret fear...that you’re going to be at a cocktail party...where some dude in a black turtleneck...is like, ‘But what’s your take on Dostoevsky?’” (10:21, Rebecca)

• The show covers classics AND pop culture touchstones: Twilight, Judy Blume, Stephen King, as well as big literary names, seeking to broaden “well read” beyond just canonical works.

What Does "Well Read" Mean?

(12:49–15:42)

• Rebecca’s Definition:
  “Being well read means having a general familiarity with foundational and socially relevant books, both what they’re about and why they’re important.” (14:02)

  • Includes Western canon, award-winners, and pop-cultural phenomena.
  • “You just want to know what’s going on with books and why these books are important.”

• The Value of Context: Classics often refer to one another (Shakespeare, Greeks), so knowing them can deepen your experience with modern books.

Is It Possible—or Even Desirable—to Be "Well Read"?

(15:54–24:34)

• Genre Focus: Brea feels “well read” in YA and science fiction; Mallory claims horror as her “well read” space.
• Rebecca: Admits the definition is always shifting and emphasizes the journey: “The pursuit is the point, it’s the journey, not the destination.” (21:30)
• Seeing Your Gaps: Even professionals have major reading gaps; it’s about balancing expertise and curiosity.

“There’s always those trade-offs...Being expert in the things I’m expert in means that I don’t know nearly as much about horror as I would like to.” (20:35, Rebecca)

• Should We Strive for It?
  • Rebecca is adamant: “Really only if it matters to you.” (22:40)
  • There’s no virtue or moral high ground, and many “well read assholes” exist.
  • “I just don’t think we need any more shoulds in our reading life.” (24:07)

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How Does One Become Well Read—If They Want To?

(31:04–39:39)

• Rebecca’s Take: Build your own curriculum and consult award lists (National Book Award, Pulitzer). Seek out recommendations from podcasts, critics, or friends whose taste matches yours.

  • “Find experts...farther down the path whose taste jives with yours.” (33:18)

• Mallory: Examine your intentions—don’t make it “pointless homework.”

  • “I think the pursuit of being well read can be a really fun one that has a lot of benefits for you as long as you are doing it in a way that is going to improve your life and is not just pointless homework.” (36:30)

• Avoid Perfectionism:

  • “Maybe take an experimental approach to it. Try out some of these books...see how it actually goes.” (37:52, Rebecca)

• Surprise Benefit: Rebecca shares that reading higher quality, classic works made her pickier and less tempted by distractions:

  “Engaging with these really beautifully crafted books and high levels of art made me dnf a lot of things much faster...It’s also made me...more connected to what reading can do...which is a great gift.” (38:57)

• No Value Judgment:

  • “There’s no value judgment on the term being well read. It’s the same to me as being jacked. Are you a good person? That has nothing to do with anything.” (31:07, Mallory)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Classics and Age:

  “As I was reading [The Great Gatsby], I was like, okay, I’m 43. That is the age to read The Great Gatsby. This is a book for middle-aged people who have seen some shit.” (11:24, Rebecca)

• On Well-Read Anxiety:

  “People love to get mad.” (13:21, Mallory)

• On Fitting In:

  “I think you can be well read in your particular corner of the book world, which is a pretty big place.” (19:29, Mallory)

• On Artificial Value:

  “The idea of being a good enough reader or a good enough literary citizen is a really dumb construct of the Internet that people use to create misery for each other.” (30:57, Rebecca)

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Listener Problem Solving: Putting Down an Unputdownable Book

(40:26–46:52)

Candice: “I cannot put down a good book—how can I motivate myself to do chores instead of reading?”

• Rebecca: Try “eat the frog” (get chores done first), or use a Pomodoro timer to alternate reading with chores.
• Brea: Switch to audiobook format to combine tasks.
• Mallory: Use a self-reward system—do chores first, then reward yourself with reading in the evening, knowing her “obsessive brain” can’t stop in the middle of a good story.

“If you’re an extreme level...just don’t pick up that book until nighttime.” (44:50, Mallory)

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Book Recommendations:

(48:01–52:23)

Listener Erica is returning to fiction after a long break, looking for gentle entry points; she prefers nonfiction and is “terrified” of anything too intense.

• Rebecca:
  • Daisy Jones and the Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid (“reads like a real oral history of a rock band”)
  • James by Percival Everett
  • The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy
  • Ann Patchett for accessible literary fiction
  • Suggests: “Go to your local bookstore and browse...Whatever you get that ‘click’ with is the book to start with.”
• Brea:
  • Welcome to the Hyunam-Dong Bookshop (“cozy,” “calming,” feels almost nonfictional)
• Mallory:
  • How Much of These Hills is Gold by C. Pam Zhang (“part western, part literary, historical flavor but with gorgeous language”)

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How to Connect & Final Thoughts

(52:23–end)

• Rebecca:

  • Zero to Well Read podcast, available wherever you listen
  • Book Riot Podcast for book news, monthly “It Books,” revisiting past bestsellers
  • Bookriot.com and Book Riot on socials

• Mallory & Brea:

  • Winter Readathon March 1st; subscribe to newsletter for book lists; send listener mail to readingglassespodcastmail.com; merch and more in show notes

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Takeaways

• "Well read" means what you want it to mean—it’s not competitive, prescriptive, or about showing off. Pursue it if it brings you joy or enriches your reading life.
• You can be “well read” in a genre or era; it's not limited to classics.
• Build your own path: use award lists, friendly experts, or bookstores as guides.
• Don’t let anxieties about what you “should” read overwhelm you. Your reading life is yours alone.

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Selected Timestamps:

• Brea’s “bathtub” metaphor for reading Rufi Thorpe: 01:09
• Rebecca on the genesis of Zero to Well Read: 10:04–11:46
• Rebecca’s definition of “well read”: 14:02
• “Is it worth striving for?” debate: 22:40–25:31
• Practical advice for becoming well read: 31:34–33:47
• Listener problem: how to put a great book down: 40:26–46:52
• Erica’s recommendation request (non-scary fiction): 48:01–52:23

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Whether you want to read the classics, get deeper into your favorite genre, or just enjoy reading without guilt, this episode reassures: being “well read” is about curiosity and connection, not meeting someone else’s checklist. And if you need more help, there’s a spreadsheet for that.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. You're listening to Reading Glasses, a show about book culture and literary life designed to help you read better. I'm author and book devourer Mallory o'. Meara.

[B]

And I'm Bria Grant, filmmaker and e reader. This episode, we're talking about the term well read. And we've got special guest Rebecca Schutzke on the show for the first time. This is such a banger of staff over at Book Riot. Wow. She joined us. She has so much to say. It was such an interesting conversation. Plus, we recommend fiction books for nonfiction readers and solve a problem about putting books down when you want to just read them and not do laundry.

[A]

Bria. But first, what are you reading?

[B]

I'm reading a book that you've been telling me for a long time I need to read. So I am reading it. It is the Knockout Queen by Rufi Thor. I read so good. It's so good. I read Margot's got Money Troubles and was like, this is the best book I've ever read. And then you were like, how have you not read the Knockout Queen? And a girl go, my dog park Also was reading it one day, and I was like, oh, I can read the book. Oh, my God, it is so. God, she's such a good writer. Her writing is so good. It's just so easy. You just, like, slip in. It's like slipping into a warm bath. You start reading, you're like, wow, I'm so comfortable with what wherever she's taking me. Like, I'm on the journey in the bathtub. That metaphor didn't work very well. But basically it's about this kid in high school who.

[A]

Who.

[B]

He's a young, like, gay kid. Not out, sort of not. Not out at high school, but, like, people sort of know. And then he has this next door neighbor whose name is Bunny, and he kind of is a little bit obsessed with her at first in this weird sort of distant way. And she's super. She's very tall, and she plays volleyball and they become friends, and then it's just kind of like what happens in high school. And essentially he has been meeting men online via Craigslist and places for these, like, sexual encounters, and she falls in love with someone and things kind of go poorly in both scenarios. And then something sort of bad happens. And it's just really well written. It has. It. It really. I was talking to this woman in the dog park whose name I don't know. I only know her dog's name, but her dog's name.

[A]

I think that's a pretty common dog park occurrence.

[B]

Yes. Her dog's name is the name of my old dog, this dog, Hattie. Anyway, not important, but she was saying. She was like, oh, it reminds me of being in high school. And like, what was important? And like, and just the way the characters are written and there's just these really interesting characters. I don't know. I am just loving this book. I cannot put it down. Rufi Thorpe is becoming like is gonna be a must read for me from now on because I just. Between this and Margo's got money troubles, I. I just. Two books that I loved so, so much. And I'm. I can guarantee this is gonna be one of my best books of the year. Although it came out a few years ago. It came out.

[A]

Yeah. Ruffie Thorpe is the auto buy author for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So good.

[B]

What are you reading?

[A]

I am reading one of our most anticipated books that I had correctly anticipated. It is Humboldt cup by Alison Mick. So this is. People have been describing it as like Jordan Peele meets Jeff Vandermeer, which I am extremely here for. It's like, it's eco horror and it's eco horror, but also combined with that thing of like, oh, you have to go back to your small town for some weird reason and you are discovering secrets when you get there. Oh, no. Is this woman. She lives in Oakland. She's a nurse. And she ends up having. She has like, a really complicated relationship with her family and she has to return to her. Her hometown because her godmother dies. This town is a logging town. Her grandfather, he was like a lumberjack and that's how he made his living. But he was also an eco terrorist and was lynched for. For that. Oh, so there's a lot of, like, family secrets. And then as. As she's like, home and be in these woods again for the. For the first time in a while, she realized there's some. Some more secrets in these. In these woods. And they have to do with bark monsters. That's all. I'm gonna tell you this. I love. You know, I love a monster book that people have been describing this as a redwood gothic. And it's so. It's like eco terrorism, eco horror, environmental destruction. But it's also kind like the way that she writes it. She's really funny. So, like, this does sound like really, really serious topics. And they are. But she writes about it in a funny way. So it's like. It's scary. It's funny. I think if you are a fan of Edgar Cantero. You might like her. It's like that kind of stuff, but it's, it's, it's fantastic so far. So that's a humble cut by Alison Mick.

[B]

And I'm reading the Knockout Queen by Rivi Thorpe,

[A]

So I want to take a moment to share some listener feedback. Shelly wrote in to say, hey, gals, life in Minneapolis is so upsetting right now, but your podcast has truly been a light in the dark. I stand with my fellow protesters and their demand to get ice the out of here, but screaming into the void may or may not actually get the job done. Regardless, I'm so proud of my state and my people and we're out here and we're doing it. This note is a quickie to tell you how much I'm loving Humble Cut by Allison what the Mallory recommended on the January February anticipated release episode. A bark monster just came out of my my computer and hearing her description as a redwood gothic with bark monsters, I immediately order it. The book arrived and I tore through it. So fun. I really appreciate the work you put into each episode and the lauded show notes. Thank you. This recommendation likely wouldn't have come to me if Mallory hadn't put in all the hours pouring over websites looking for those very special glass or bait books. We see you. We love you. Please keep us in your hearts and keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. I put this in just for me because I needed.

[B]

I love that. Yes. Thank you so much.

[A]

Yeah, write Mallory.

[B]

Nice stuff. We love that. That's great. Aaron wrote in and said, hi, Brian Mallory. This recent episode made me want to own up to my story. Graph lies. Oh. Firstly, I mark all my audiobooks as print because I like seeing how many pages I've read each year and I just don't care about the number of hours. Secondly, I accidentally selected the Dutch translation of a book one time and I've never bothered to change it. I did read. I did read 1984. I just did not read it in Dutch. Thank you for the book recs. Okay. That's really specific and very funny and no one's going to care.

[A]

I love it so much.

[B]

That's so really, really funny. Aaron, if I do meet you, I am going to ask you about that Dutch translation. See if it was correct.

[A]

Emily wrote in to say, hi Brian Mallory. I love the pod and wanted to share. My daughter is in 4th grade and came home with a reading challenge. She has to read 40 books before the end of the year. Oh my God. A certain number in different categories. We've already had so much fun picking out books for categories that she wouldn't normally try. I told her that grown ups do reading challenges, and she's even inspired me to step outside my own reading comfort zone. This is so cool.

[B]

Wait, when did this come in? 40 books before the end of the year. Did it just come in? Because if this was given to this. Okay, that's fine then. Yeah, I was worried it came in like October or something. I'm like, what?

[A]

No.

[C]

Crazy.

[A]

No, this. This is pretty recent. That's so. I mean, it's really cute to give kids reading challenges. When we were Bria and I were kids, all we had was to read for pizza.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Back in our day, which was a good challenge. Emily, please buy your daughter a personal pan pizza when. When she's done reading these 40 books. This is so cool. Hey, folks, quick bookmark. It's coming. It's happening. Sunday, March 1, we are doing another Readathon. This is going to be our winter Readathon. We know there's a lot of cities out there that are buried under approximately 16,000ft of snow. So what better time than to stay in and read? This is going to be our first half day. We're trying to do some experiments with the Readathon. We know that eight hours is a lot to ask, even on a weekend for some people. So we're doing a short one, a mini one, a short king Readathon. It's going to be four hours long. I mean, it can be as long as you want. We are starting at 10am Pacific Time Sunday, March 1. There'll be an Instagram live at that time and then it's going to end at 2pm Pacific time again for us in which we will do a another Instagram live to check in. So prepare your snacks, prepare your stacks. If you're on the Discord, folks, let us know. Post some pictures of what you're going to read. We're really excited. So reminder, March 1st Sunday starts 10:00am Pacific time. Ready those books, folks, so you can email us at reading glasses podcastmail.com if you want a list of all the books we talk about on the show delivered to your inbox every month, you can sign up for our newsletter. There's a link in the show notes. And before we talk about being well read with special guest Rebecca Shinsky from Book Riot, we're going to take a quick break.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Is the hit podcast about new Star Trek shows. And right now we're talking about all things Starfleet Academy. Starfleet Academy is a Star Trek show made for everyone from lifetime Star Trek nerds to folks who only like my so Called life in Dawson's Creek. We even had a special writer and actor guest for the fifth episode this season, the hilarious Tawny Newsom. Look, there's always something fun on the Greatest Trek feed because when the season's over, we're going back to watching the original series. And hey, if you like old Star Trek, the Greatest Generation just had its 10th anniversary. That's greatest Trek for new Star Trek and Greatest Generation for the Star Trek you grew up on. Both shows you can find on maximumfun.org. This week we're talking about being well read. What does the term mean? Does it matter? And more importantly, is it something you should strive for as readers? We are getting into it today, but we've got a special guest. Bria. This is the first time we've had a special guest on for the whole episode in a long time.

[B]

I know.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

We feel special.

[A]

We feel special.

[B]

We feel very honored to have you

[A]

here because we have Rebecca Schinsky, chief of staff over at Book Riot here in the virtual studio. Rebecca, we are such longtime fans of both Book Riot and your work, so we're really over the moon to have you on for this episode. So before we get into it, tell us about the your. It came out last fall, but so it's still newish. Tell us about the Zero to well Read podcast.

[C]

Yeah. So Zero to well Read is a podcast about everything you need to know about the books you wish you'd read or the books you read in high school or pretended to read in high school, or the books that you're really afraid somebody is going to ask your opinion of at a cocktail party. Like, this is in the 15 years almost that Book Riot has been running, one of the things that we've heard the most often from readers is like, everyone is walking around with this secret fear that you're going to be at a cocktail party, which, like, how many of us are even going, yeah, I was going to say where someone is like, where some dude in a black turtleneck. Which is funny, given my wardrobe today is like, it's like, but what's your take on Dostoevsky? And that you're not going to be.

[A]

And you're like, I have to go to the bathroom. I'll be right back. Right. Crime.

[B]

And you read it. You read it in the bathroom.

[A]

You read it. You read the chatgpt.

[C]

You get like an incorrect synopsis of Crime and Punishment from a large language model. So the podcast was sort of grew out of that, but also out of a real recognition. Like people want to talk about these big books. And most of them, like the classics are things that most of us, if we encounter them at all, we encounter them in school when in my opinion, we're generally way too young to really appreciate what's going on there. The first episode this year or last fall was Great Gatsby. And as I was reading it, I was like, okay, I'm 43. That is the age to read the Great Gatsby. This is a book for middle aged people who are kind, who have seen some shit. Yeah, it's not, not like a 17 year old.

[A]

Yeah. Not a 16 year old that has never been kissed before. And it's like, ah, yes. I too am jaded from a year's long unrecorded.

[C]

Yes. Yeah, I totally understand how it's a mistake to pine for something you could never have and then to be disappointed when you actually get it. Like, yeah, that's a real problem. So we wanted to sort of bring the book riot philosophy to what counts as an important book. So of course we are talking about classics, but we also talk about contemporary hits, books that changed the culture. So we, you know, we did the Great Gatsby, we're doing Toni Morrison, but we also did an episode on Twilight. You're going to see Judy Blume later in this season. There's some Stephen King coming in the fall. So folks that are important for like general, we think of like a generally well rounded reader as like both a familiarity with classics, but you just want to know what's going on with books and why these books are important for sure. So each episode, every week drops on Tuesdays is a deep dive where we talk about what happens, why the book's important, who the author is, what it feels like to read the book, some of the notable quotes, we do some trivia, some hot takes, and we've come up with a, you know, highly scientific proprietary rating system.

[A]

We love it. We love a rating system. So this is the podcast you run to the bathroom to listen to at the party. When somebody asks the question, you're like, hold on, I'm going to be in the bathroom for 45 minutes. Mainline it directly into your brain. All right, well, let's, let's get into it then. So how, as someone who is a professional who does this podcast? Rebecca, what does the term well read mean to you?

[C]

Well, if there's anything that I have learned in 15 years of doing this, it's that this is a very loaded term for people.

[A]

People love to get mad.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Listen, we are also book podcasters, so we understand that we've been doing this show only for eight years, so not

[C]

nearly as long, but nine years is a really impressive run for a podcast. Y' all should not diminish that at all.

[B]

And the first thing, people are like, what's your favorite book? And also, have you read this one? That's the number one question. The two questions.

[C]

Yeah, like, we don't want to get into the, you know, in the comics world, there's the joke about name five robins that like, if you're not a, if you can't name five robins, you're not a legitimate comics reader. And we don't want to get into anything like that at Book Riot. Yeah, roll those eyes, Valerie.

[A]

I wish there was a sound effect for eye rolling so listeners could, could, could really get the experience.

[C]

But like, this really, like, it triggers people. This is a very upsetting idea for some people. So I think like, first of all, you don't have to care about it at all. And everybody has their own definition. Mine is largely what we infused, along with my co host Jeff o', Neill, into Zero to well read that being well read means having a general familiarity with foundational and socially relevant books, both what they're about and why they're important. You know, I'm an English speaking reader in the U.S. so for me, this is largely about the Western canon. It's about award winners and it's about cultural phenomena. Classics, because they speak to each other. Like Shakespeare shows up in everything. I didn't plan it in advance when I programmed the first season of the show, but like most of the books that we read referred to Shakespeare in some way. Many of them referred to the Greeks. The Secret History by Donna Tartt referred to all of those. And I find it to be a much richer reading experience if you actually pick up the threads and know what some of those references are. But as again, I was saying in the intro, we also want to do pop culture kinds of things. So like, yes, Shakespeare and Dickens and Gabrielle Garcia Marquez and Toni Morrison and Louise Erdrich, but also Twilight and Stephen King and Gone Girl and whoever else becomes the next big thing. If in 10 years we're still talking about 4th Wing, there will be a 4th Wing episode of Zero to well Red.

[A]

I love this because when we started our podcast last year, reading Smut. I am not a Twilight person, but I felt I read a book about Twilight because I had to. You can't operate in the smut world without at least having some sort of knowledge about Twilight.

[C]

Yeah. Twilight leads us to 50 shades of gray. Leads us to like, I don't think we have romantasy doing what it's doing right now. And the whole thing of spicy romance without 50 shades of gray really normalizing people reading and talking about. We didn't even call it spicy romance when Fifty Shades of Grey came out in 2012. But like that had the Today show doing segments about middle aged women reading BDSM romance. That is unheard of. And it came from Twilight.

[B]

So is longevity, you think, important? Like you said that fourth wing. If it's. We're still talking about it in 10 years. Do you think longevity is one of. If it stands the test of time? That's how. That's how you get on the show. It has to be around.

[C]

That's a really important one for us right now. Like on the Book Riot podcast, which is more news in the world of books and reading, we will do book club episodes about things that are current phenomena. Like Jeff And I read fourth in January of 2025, I think, and did a Patreon episode about it. So we'll do those current hits. But I think for Zero to well read, we're generally focusing on stuff that's been around long enough that we have some sense of what it means. We are going to make some exceptions. We're doing an episode on James by Percival Everett later this season, but that one was so clearly really important. And I have no question that it will continue to be really important and in conversation with classic work. But that's an exception to the rule. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

So do we think of ourselves as well read? Priya, are you well read in the world of spaceship books?

[B]

Ooh, yeah. Yeah, they might be a little bit. Very specifically well read. I will say, like, I don't go to a lot of cocktail parties where people are wearing turtlenecks, but I think

[A]

mostly because we live in la, though. It's because we live in la. There are three neck T shirts out here.

[B]

That's right. That's right. With a little bit of chest hair poking through. I will say I do get asked like, have you read this? And it's usually like, no, but I kind of know what it is

[A]

and

[B]

that I can like identify the books that people are talking about just mostly from doing this show. I think when we started I had a very specific wheelhouse and things I Like to read. And that was sort of what. I didn't venture beyond that. But because of doing the show, like, you know, you kind of, you know, you work in the, you work in the book world, you like learn more about books. So I think now I can like identify a lot and I know a lot about like the classics. I will say, like, just from. I did really, I really liked them in high school.

[A]

So maybe widely read.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I think it depends on who you ask because I definitely have like, I'm asking me.

[A]

And you are widely read.

[B]

Like, Mallory's heard the story about like we. I remember going on a date with someone who was like very just talking YA books and I was like, I could really talk about YA books for a long time and like I'm well read within that community. But he wasn't. So it depends on the person asking. But yeah, I think I'm pretty widely, like, I unders. I know a lot about books. Mallory, do you know a lot about books? I feel like you're very well read.

[A]

I think I am in a very, very specific way because I am a very well. I consider myself well read in my chosen genre, which is horror. And for me that means I have read what I consider to be the classics of the genre. But I also am upkeeping it. Like, for me, what being well read is a state of being that requires regular attending. It's like people who are really into like meditation. Like, you can't just meditate once and be like, done. I am. I've reached it. You know, it's like, yes, you really have to.

[C]

As a long term practitioner. I'm so sorry to tell you that's the truth.

[B]

Yes. But I gotta tell you, Rebecca, I took one meditation class and I'm like, so I feel like that actually explains a lot about me as I'm kind of a dabbler. Like, I'm like, I get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I understand what it's going on. Whereas I feel like Mallory jumps in. Mallory jumps in head first.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

That like philosophy of dabbling can serve you really well for like doing the kind of work that we all do where you want to be deeply read in your chosen area, but conversant in a lot of other things.

[A]

Yes. And that's. Honestly, it's my problem sometimes with this show is because if I had my druthers, I would just read nothing but haunted house books. That's all I want to do ever. But so for me, I feel like I've read almost every single classic Horror novel. But I also read all the modern books. Every salient modern horror author, like I am reading a lot of horror is always one of my top genres of the year. I'm keeping up with who's the new authors, who are the big titles. Even if it's not something I'm particularly like, oh, it might not be for me, but this is like a big buzzy horror book. So I want to know. I think you can be well read in your particular corner of the book world, which is a pretty big place. But on the contrary, I am not well read in the classic sense. I have not read nearly any of the staples of the literary world. I think that's a huge. A big part of that is because I went to college for animal science and then I dropped out after like a year and a half. So I'm missing the college experience. I think made made it so I did not read a lot of classics. Rebecca, do you feel like you are well read?

[C]

I mean, conveniently, under my own definition,

[A]

yes, according to the rules that I made up, I am well read.

[C]

I'm in charge. So I think under my own definition or the one we're working from on zero to well read, like more than most people. But it also doing this work makes me so aware of how many gaps there are and how many, you know, how big those gaps are that like there are just so many books and there's the end. Like, and it's all compromises all the time. Like being expert in the things that I'm expert in means that I don't know nearly as much about horror as I would like to, you know, to take your example, Mallory, there's always those trade offs and you know, we disagree about this. Even among the staff of Book Riot. Like we. One of our editors was like, can you really call yourself well read if you're only reading books or primarily reading books that were written in English? Like, maybe you don't read enough in translation or maybe you don't read enough in this other way. And I was like, you know, that's a great point. Like this is. It's an ever expanding and really elusive definition for me though. I think like the pursuit is the point, it's the journey, not the destination.

[A]

Like, that's very meditative of you, Rebecca.

[C]

Thanks. I do, I think about like the pursuit of well, readness as being about kind of an approach to reading rather than an end goal. I don't think I'm ever going wake up one day and be like, well, I've Done it.

[A]

Now I'm well, time to, time to take up skiing. I don't need to do this anymore.

[C]

Yeah. My 43 year old knees do not want that day to come.

[A]

Yeah. It's interesting because I feel like there's two, there's two mindsets that all of us have and that like there's among normal people who like, don't because like the average person only reads what, one, two, three books a year. So yeah, well read.

[C]

According to like the Pew studies of Americans, like a heavy reader is 10 to 12 books a year, which is

[A]

nuts for all of us as like book podcasters and book professionals. But then you get into the book world and then it's a completely different story. Yes. So does this actually matter? Do we think that reader, that being well read is something that readers should strive for? Rebecca, do you think that this is like, is something that people should be put, like maintaining and putting in their books?

[B]

You could start a whole podcast on it.

[C]

So I feel like yes, but I mean, really only if it matters to you. Like at the basest sense, like, we're all gonna die someday and no one's gonna care how many books I read.

[A]

It's really, I want my Goodread stats on my tombstone. Final number of books read.

[B]

Carve it in.

[C]

So, like, I, you know, I, I, if it matters to you, pursue it under whatever definition works for you. Like, the thing that I really care about is that people engage with ideas and are curious about the world. I think art is a really wonderful vehicle for doing that and that books offer a way in that that's special and unique and that extends beyond even what like the best movies or music or other kinds of art and media can do. So, like, I care that people are curious and interested a whole lot more than I care that they do that through books. If you're reading, I care that you read a lot more than I care what you read. Like, my pursuit of well readness is for me, and this is maybe the thing I find myself repeating the most on the Internet is like, I genuinely don't care if you don't give a fuck about being well read or if you think that it's dumb that I care and have my own deaf definition. Like, do you like reading a lot of books? Whether they're canonical or not. Like, it doesn't make me a better person. Knowing more about one genre or other doesn't make somebody a better person. And there are certainly, we all know a lot of well read assholes in the world.

[A]

Yes, we do. Yes, we do.

[B]

I just don't think the guy at the party.

[C]

Yeah, your guy at the party. Like, I just don't think we need any more shoulds in our reading life. My answer about is this the thing we should care about gets a little more complicated if I'm thinking about the health of literary culture. Like, I want people to read like well written high art books because I want well written high art books to continue to exist. But on the other hand, there's already more of those than I'm ever going to be able to read in a lifetime. So true.

[A]

It's. That's so real.

[B]

But they should, but we should keep making. Doing them. We should keep doing them. That doesn't mean the pursuit, like people

[C]

making art is good for the world. So I would like that. I would like that to keep happening. But I also think folks can pursue this at the, like too far at the cost of other things. Like, it is all trade offs and opportunity costs. So there's a point where there's too much reading and you're not paying attention enough to other important aspects of life. So definitely not a pursuit of well readness at the cost of all the other things.

[A]

Well, it's interesting because on this show we find that there's a lot of readers are constantly trying to balance the escapist reading for fun versus feeling like a, quote, good bookish citizen. And you are, you know, you're reading inclusively, you're reading diversely, you're using the library. And like you are. There's. Because there's reading for you and there's reading for the bookish community. And it feels like this well read is kind of like exercising. Bria. It's like it's just for you. No one cares, you know. Bria, do you think this matters? Yeah.

[B]

And you get out of it what you put into it. And I mean, look, I think our listeners are really mostly they're well read, but I do think the idea of it can be overwhelming. So I love the way you're framing it, Rebecca. Like, that feels to me like a very like. Yeah, if you want to. And like, what does it mean for you? And I think you have to decide whether or not it matters for you and what it means to you, which is, you know, maybe specific. I mean, it's interesting, Mallory, to hear you talk about, like being a horror person. By the way, I keep flashing back to we did this trivia thing, Mallory and I, and I literally knew not one question. And I was like, oh, maybe I'M not well read. At one point, someone's like, bree's just here for vibes.

[A]

Like, we love the little chat.

[B]

And I was like, oh, man. But I'm bad at trivia. I'm.

[A]

No, I'm.

[B]

I'm horrible at trivia. It is actually, like, my brain has never been good at it. And now that I'm in my 40s, it's literally like, am I ill? Like, yeah, it's very real.

[A]

Anyway.

[B]

But I think, like, being well read in what you want to be well read in, if that is a goal for you, is really interesting. It is the reason, I mean, I actually don't know a lot about the horror classics and I love horror books. So I am in a horror book club that does classics now. And that was like, really? It's been really fun for me to, like, read Stephen King and I. Because I literally had not read a single Stephen King book when I joined the book club. And so, yeah, I think choosing what it means for you. So I love, like, coming up with that definition for each individual. Mallory, what about you? Because you did really well in the trivia. Do you think people should be row well rounded? Because I already knew like every. It was literally mallory versus, like 10 people. And I was just there going like,

[C]

oh my God, that's so satisfying.

[A]

Like, trying to look good.

[B]

It was so funny.

[C]

I love this for you. I'm so glad you got that moment.

[B]

Listen, listen. I can't be good at everything.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I'm bad at most things.

[A]

So what I'm thinking of is the time. So, Rebecca, it was a very, very sort of long standing joke on the show that I had never read the Bible for my whole Life. And in 2020, as a fundraising thing, we had it as a goal that I would read the Bible.

[C]

And oh, my God, this is so generous of you guys.

[A]

And we did it. They unlocked it. Our wonderful members unlocked it. I read the Bible. Was it fun? No. Was it interesting? Kind of was. Am I glad that I did it? Yes. Because the thing is, it's inarguable that the Bible is one of, if not the most influential work of fiction maybe on the English speaking literary canon. And I really now value being able to be like, because up until I read the Bible, I thought Cain and Abel were characters in Sandman. I did not realize that they were like, that's it. Like, and that. And like, it really. It has changed my reading life because I can see, I'm like, I get that now. I get this reference. And now I Can I can. I'm like, oh, I get this reference. So I understand more of, I can see more of the shape of this story. It's like, I can see it enriches your experience 100%. It's like I can see more of the iceberg. It's like reading a book in the middle of a romance series. Does it add a lot to your experience to have read the books before it? Absolutely. But do you need to?

[B]

No.

[A]

We just, on our other show, we read the second in a series from Tessa Dare and we could just. We just picked up the second book, had a great time, but I was like, oh, I can see the, the previous couple from the first book is in this book somewhere. And I like, that would have enriched my experience. So I'm glad that I did it. But I don't think, I don't. You don't need it. It's. It's like watching the DVD extras. Like, it's just. Are you nerdy? Like, do you want to know this stuff? Like, it could be fun.

[C]

Are you nerdy?

[B]

Are you nerdy Is the name of this episode.

[C]

Hello and welcome. Yeah, I think that really homes in on like, maybe how to decide for yourself if this is the thing you want to care about is that, like, if you want to be able to see that scaffolding or the way that you phrased it, Mallory, you can see more of the iceberg. Reading a bunch of the classics and well known works will give you that because they do refer to each other. Like everybody does refer to Shakespeare. A lot of contemporary writers refer to the classics. A ton of them also refer to the Bible and often in really subtle ways. You know, like we just read Go Tell it on the Mountain by James Baldwin, which refers to the Bible in very overt ways. But there are pieces of like, pieces of language in there that you don't know are Bible references. Unless you've read the Bible or you grew up in church and you can totally appreciate the book without knowing those things. But it does add something to the reading experience to know the thing. And if that's the kind of stuff you want, you know, like, if you, if you want, want that foundational knowledge that enriches the experience, I think this kind of reading is a thing to consider. But if you want like escapist reading, that's also a completely valid way to approach your reading life. And, you know, like, if you're out in the streets regularly engaged in activism and the thing that you need to do is have an escapist Reading life.

[A]

You Want to read 15 cozy fantasy books? Hell, yeah. Get in there.

[C]

Like, and this is just. It's personal preferences. You know, Like, I'm really politically active, but I find that my engagement with art fuels that. And like, so reading the way that I read helps me continue to invest in the political work that I do. But I know people very well who are like, the thing I've got to do, right, is read 15 cozy romances and to find that balance. And so, like, I just want to be super clear. I think all of us agree, like, there's not. There's not a one size fits all approach to this, and it's certainly not a requirement. Like, also, the idea of being a good enough reader or a good enough literary citizen is like, it's a really dumb construct of the Internet that people use to create misery for each other.

[A]

Oh, 100% like the idea.

[B]

I don't think that's what the Internet's for.

[A]

I don't think. I think what we need to really put down is there's no value judgment on the term being well read. Right? It's the same to me. It's the same as being jacked. Like, are you a good person? That has nothing to do with anything. It's just your own something that you're doing for yourself. All right, so if people want to be well read, how do they go about doing it? I hear there's a new podcast that you can listen to that will help you.

[C]

I have a podcast for you.

[A]

I think.

[C]

I hope that zero to well read would be useful and interesting for people. I think the real answer is, like, build your own curriculum in a kind of way. Like, consult the lists, consult the experts. You could do a lot worse than looking at National Book Award winners, Pulitzer winners, National Book Critics Circle winners, that New York Times list of the 100 best books of the 21st century. Like, I've been trying to pursue this on my own in movie watching. I'm trying to become well watched. Like, as I was this. It's really fun. And as I was thinking about this, I realized we don't have this term in other parts of which is really wild, right?

[A]

That is really weird.

[C]

It's not like, well viewed, well watched, well arted.

[A]

Well, that's because people have. Reading has a different. We always talk about this. Reading has a different place than other forms of entertainment because it has. There is a value judgment that you are a better person, that you are more well educated. There's a moral valence to it, which doesn't exist for. For video games or comics or movies. And it's really weird.

[B]

I don't know, y'. All. I'm gonna argue. I'm gonna argue that it does. In some ways, there is, like, a nerd badge you can get. I think that for film, for especially, like, specific, like, comics. I think also, like, I, like, just remember a young woman being a young woman reading comic books and people being like, well, have you read this? Well, then you don't really like comics or, like, like being a young woman into horror movies and people being like, you haven't seen Friday 13th Part 7. Like, you know, like, and, like, realizing that I wasn't well versed in these things that I was really interested in and having to, like, fight to be a member of that community.

[C]

Yeah. I think that's.

[B]

I think all of these. There's a barrier for entry. I think with anything that feels like a. Like a subculture or a niche or whatever.

[C]

Yeah. And finding experts or people who are just farther down the path than you are, whose take taste jives with your taste. So, like, the way I've done this with movies is find a couple movie podcasts where I just like the hosts and I discover that they, like, they make it accessible. I don't feel dumb because I haven't seen every movie ever made, but it makes me curious. It makes me want to go back and see some of those movies for the same reasons that, like, I want to be able to sit in the theater and see something new. But know what it's calling back to, right?

[A]

Bria, what do you think? Question, how should people become well read?

[B]

Well, listening to book riot podcasts do keep me really informed, I will say, especially when you do the one. The like it book of the month. I really love those.

[C]

Those are really fun for me.

[B]

Who can be like, I've just read 40 sci fi books this month and, like, hasn't have I have not, like, delved into, like, what is happening. It keeps me informed on what is going on and what people are talking about. Like, there's a lot of times that, like, I think y' all call it like, the New Yorker, like, carrying a tote bag. What is it?

[C]

Like, a tote bag crowd.

[B]

There you go. There you go. That crow that I. I've read, Joan did it, you know, Like, I know I dipped my toes into it, but I. I probably won't read the, like, whatever book everyone is reading this month. So just kind of educating myself on what is going on and, like, and hearing about, like, Okay. I actually do want to read. That book that they're talking about is really helpful to me. It keeps me sort of informed. Mallory, what about you? What. What do you. If you. If someone wants to be well read, where do they start?

[A]

Well, I. Rebecca, I really like what you said earlier about you don't want to add another should, so. I don't. I can feel our rule loving Glassers panicking right now going, oh, no, I have to do. I have to do other. There's more things I have to do. There's more homework. I really think you should examine your intentions and goals. Like, what are you. What are you trying to get out of it? So, like, are you just trying to be generally more well read? Are you, like, are you focusing on more literary fiction? Is there a genre that you're looking for? Like, is it. Like, what, do you just want to feel smug at parties? Like, what do you. What do you want here? Like, for me, when I got into horror, I. Bria knows if I like something, I like it more than anybody else in the world does. That's just the biggest fan. My, how my personality works. So when I was a teenager and getting into horror, I immediately was like, I have to watch all the Universal monster movies. I have to read Shirley Jackson. I have to read Poe. Like, I have to. Like, I. I wanted to do that. And I have for the past few decades of my life, really reaped the benefits of that because I feel very comfortable in this genre and I, I.

[B]

Wait, Mallory, did you have, like a spreadsheet or did you have a journal? I know you really well, and I feel like you must have made a show. You must have made a checklist. Did you make a checklist?

[A]

I mean, remember, I was a teenager, so if I did, it is long gone, but I may or may not have.

[B]

And I wish we could find a little cutting. Poor entrance checklist.

[C]

One of my best friends was this, like, obnoxious classics kid in high school. I didn't know her then, but she sent me a photo recently that her best friend from high school had found the list of books that they had made that you had to have read for them to be friends with you.

[A]

Oh, my God. Nobody is as snooty as a teenage snoot. Like, that is a teenage classics classics kid.

[C]

Yeah, and it's the obnoxious ones too. You know, it's like, did you. Have you read the Fountainhead?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So anyway, it's. I think that being the pursuit of being well read is. Can Be a really fun one that has a lot of benefits for you as long as you are doing it it in a way that is going to improve your life and is not just pointless homework. Like, I. I fully admit this is not. I have not read a lot of, like, literary classics, but I also haven't really felt the need to because it's just not a genre. I used to read a lot more literary fiction than I do now. Bria and I more are genre people. And I, like, I just wrote my first horror novel. Bria writes horror movies. It's kind of like our space. So if I ever. And you know, Bria, that in 10 years, I'm like, oh, I want to get into literary fiction, I will be making an obnoxious list, and I will be calling up Rebecca's high school best friend and asking for her recommendations. But I am very pleased with my level of, well, readiness as it stands. But it like. And I like upkeeping it as it is right now, and it adds a lot to my life. So I just. Before everyone panics, I just want you to look at your own reading life and really think about how this could benefit you. Instead of feeling like you have to do it just to impress this guy in a turtleneck. Who. Somebody listening to the show in a turtleneck that's like, who me? I'm so sorry.

[B]

I'm sure we're not offending Rebecca because she's wearing a turtleneck.

[C]

Yeah. You can also maybe take an experimental approach to it. Like, try out some of these books that you think will make you feel more well read and see how it actually goes. Like, do you like it? Is it enriching? How does it change your reading life? Like, I didn't know how doing zero to well read was gonna change mine. Like, I've. I've been reading mostly new releases for the last 15 years. Cause we're. We're doing things like the IT books, like, you're talking about Bria, like, covering new stuff. And I didn't have any idea. Like, is reading these gonna cut back my reading life? What's gonna happen? What happened for me is that I've actually read more in the last year than I had read. My reading increased by about 25%.

[A]

Oh, my God. You already read a lot.

[C]

What happened? But it did shift. Like, what happened to me was that engaging with these really beautifully crafted books and high levels of art made me dnf a lot of things much faster. Like, it's made me pickier. But you're like, this is no.

[A]

Great Gatsby. I'm throwing it behind me.

[B]

This is no Fountainhead.

[C]

It's made me pickier, certainly, but it's also made me, like, feel more connected to what reading can do. And that has made me, like, really disinterested in my focus phone, which is a great gift.

[A]

Oh, that's.

[B]

That's a good gift.

[A]

I mean, burying the lead here. You should have started with that. That's the best. Wow.

[B]

Now people are really gonna listen to the podcast. Yeah.

[C]

Buy the brick. Read classic books. Put your phone down.

[A]

Gorgeous. Okay. We love this. All right, so send your thoughts on being well read to reading glasses podcastmail.com before we solve a reader problem about putting books down, we're going to take a quick break. Ready? Go. Knock, knock.

[B]

Who's there?

[A]

We got this with Mark and Hal.

[C]

You knew this one.

[A]

We can't put that out as an ad.

[C]

We just did new episodes every week on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcast now. It's hewn in rock.

[A]

Hewn in rock? Yeah. How do you hue something in rock with a chisel? There's only one hue in rock in. It's Huey Lewis.

[C]

And the news is.

[A]

We got this with Mark and how

[C]

is available every week on maximum fun dot org.

[A]

I walked right into that.

[B]

So time to solve a bookish problem from one of our listeners. Candice writes in and said, I have this problem where I cannot put down a good book. But, like, like, I have things to do, and I typically don't want to read a book unless it's good enough to not put down. It's even worse if it's a series and I'm reading on my Kindle. Should I ground my Kindle like it's a naughty teenager? I can do audiobooks, but I just love to. I read. How can I be motivated to put the book down? Cook dinner, do laundry, or those other things that suck way more than reading. Surely y' all can relate.

[A]

Rebecca. Rebecca, what should Candace do? Quit her job, I think.

[C]

Yeah, just. I mean, what if you just never did laundry again?

[A]

Just keep buying new socks.

[C]

Dream on the practical side. Maybe like, eat the frog first, as the advice goes. Like, get the duties out of the way so that you're not using reading to avoid real life. Because you do, you know, unfortunately, we all have to, like, make dinner and do the laundry. On a really practical note, maybe a Pomodoro timer or a Pomodoro timer app is useful for something like this. Like, give yourself a 15 minute window of either. Either I get to read until the timer goes off and then I have to go do these things. Or, like, I'm going to do chores for 15 minutes and then go back to my book. Because in my experience, anytime you have to step away from something you're enjoying to do something you don't want to enjoy, it feels like the thing you don't want to enjoy. Like, the thing you don't want to do is going to last forever. So, like, a good way to be like, oh, I'm not going to be folding laundry forever is to be like, well, I'm only going to be folding laundry for 15 minutes, and then I can go back to my book and

[B]

you can get a lot done in 15 minutes. You can get a lot done in 15 minutes.

[C]

Minutes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I know that Candice says that she likes to. I read, but the. The audiobooks are going to really help you on this.

[A]

That.

[B]

It helps me, because if I'm really into a book, I'll go get it on audiobook. And it really motivates me to do laundry and clean the house because then I can, like, wander around with my headphones in and, like, do some sweeping, and then I can go back to

[A]

chores because you're like, oh, wait, I don't. I will. I'll do that. I want a little walk.

[B]

You know, like, it does, like, you just to extend it, and then you can go back to the book. But I do think, like, toggling will really help, and it helps me a lot. If there's a book I love, I'm probably getting it on both these days.

[C]

Yeah. And Spotify just rolled out a new feature that supports this called page match.

[A]

So if you're listening, big controversy right now with. With Spotify and in Bookshop.

[C]

I know. I'm just gonna say, though, if you're a Spotify premium subscriber and you listen to your audiobooks on Spotify, they have a new tool where you can take a picture of where you are in a book and it will match you up to that. Yeah, it's really impressive. That's like. This is an actually useful use of AI technology. You take a picture of where you are in the book, it matches you to the audiobook place, and then you can go from the audiobook place, it will tell you where, like, how to flip ahead in the book you're reading. And you can do it with an ebook or a print book. I haven't tested it myself. They just sent the press release about it yesterday. Um, but, like, that sounds pretty promising.

[B]

That's cool. That's very cool. Mallory, what do you think?

[A]

So I. So much of the show is knowing yourself as a reader. And I know that I have no self discipline. This is why I don't buy potato chips. This is. There's a lot of things that I don't do because I just can't say no to myself. And I live by myself with my cat, so there's nobody else to say no to me. So I do a little reward system for myself. I just know myself that I can't just start reading in the middle of the day. Like, I can't do it. It sounds like Candace might be the same. Like, if I do the dishes and then I vacuum and then I do all. All the stuff that I have to do, then I'm like, all right, well, Mallory, you can read for the rest of the night. You can read till 1am if you want to. No one can stop you. But I just can't. I have that same obsessive brain, and I cannot let my. I can't. Like, if I'm really into a book, I can't read it over breakfast. Like my breakfast reading is like my National Geographic or a poem or like a nonfiction book. I can't start. I can't dip back into a novel 3/4 of the way through at breakfast because I'm like, well, I'm just gonna cancel all my meetings for the day because I want to read. So it's a reward system for myself that I do all the things that I have to do for the day, and then I try to read at night. Being responsible sucks is very frustrating. We're all on the same page. But that's, for me, it's about knowing myself. And I really like the things that both of you said. But if you. If. If you're an extreme level, if those things aren't working, working, then just don't pick up that book until night time. Well, because Candace said specifically that Candace is only reading stuff that is really, really compelling. And yeah, I. I am that kind of reader that I'll just be like, I guess I don't need food today. I guess I don't need to. I guess I don't need to leave the house. I could probably do that tomorrow. It's fine. Like, I have that addictive reading personality, so save it for night time, baby.

[B]

Well, I was just gonna say, also, it's okay to have. Have days like that too.

[A]

Like, I can't have it every day.

[B]

I'm so I know, but I get so, like. Like I can't have any fun until, like, whatever. And then every day starts to look like that. And then it's like, maybe it doesn't matter that there's like, you know, a few dishes or like, you didn't do laundry on Saturday when you're supposed to do. You know what I mean? Like, there's like, I think, like, giving yourself a little bit of, like, okay, this is a day where I do just get to read and do nothing else. Like, that's. It's okay to have one of those every so often because I feel like. Feel like we had really high standards.

[A]

Remember, I'm better at weekends than you are. I don't do anything on the weekends.

[B]

I don't do weekends. I don't do weekends. That's right.

[A]

I work on weekends, comes down on Friday and nothing. And I don't answer emails. My. I defend my weekends with this. Oh, good. Yeah, you have to. But Bria does. Bria.

[C]

So maybe, like, maybe to that end, scheduling yourself some of these kinds of days that Bria is talking about, like depending on what your typical work week looks like or how your life is laid out. Like, this would be really different if you have kids or don't have kids, like, all that of stuff. But is there an evening or two every week that you can block out where those are? Your, like, adulting free, where you don't have to do any chores. You're just going to read and then you know that you're like, you're buying yourself that time by doing all the chores on the other days.

[B]

But maybe, like, note to self, honestly, like, this is. I need to take this. I need to take this advice.

[C]

Some kind of plan for it might be useful. So then you feel in charge of it. Because I think the thing that I'm hearing in this question is really that, like, she feels like the reading, like the book is in charge.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And she's trying to get that sense of control.

[A]

Yeah. Are you being dumped by your book? Get a. Get a spreadsheet. Honestly, I think what this entire episode is about is the power of spreadsheets. Spreadsheets and lists.

[C]

I would co sign the power of spreadsheets 100.

[A]

Really? I feel like all. All three of our jobs are. Are powered by Google Docs and spreadsheets and lists. Well, Candice, let us know and let us know if any of this stuff helps. Good luck. You want us to solve your reader problem, you can send it to reading glasses podcastmail.com. Now let's answer a recommendation request from Erica, who says, hi, Brianne. Mallory. I was a crazy big reader as a kid and teen, but college, grad school, and then life meant I somehow hadn't picked up a book in like a decade. Plus, in 2023, I made a real effort to get back into it and really enjoyed reading 23 books up from zero the year before. Wow. I used to love. That's incredible. Yeah, from nothing. Wow. I used to love reading fiction, but for some reason, I just can't bring myself to pick up fiction books at all. For now, I'm an exclusively nonfiction reader. Do you have any fiction book recommendations that I can try dipping my toes into this year? It feels like the world of fiction has moved on so far from the last time I was immersed in it that I don't even know where to start. I'm terrified of anything remotely scary and can even find thrillers a bit much sometimes. Rebecca, what do you think Erica should read? This is a. This is a very broad question.

[C]

This is a really broad question.

[B]

How about fiction?

[C]

I mean, I think, I think first of all, what a great thing that you found a way back into books at all. And like, just to call back to what we were Talking about earlier, 23 books in a year is more than twice what a heavy reader in the United States typically reads. So like, you're already an outlier having done this, Erica, like, that's really something to feel proud of, you know, as you were reading at Mallory, I was like, maybe I'm going to pivot away from the answers I had planned on. We love that because fiction that feels like nonfiction might be a path to this. And Daisy Jones and the Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid, which, like, oh, that

[A]

is a great recommendation.

[C]

Right? Like she's Taylor Jenkins Reid has moved on since then and is better known, I think, for the Evelyn Hugo book. But Dacey Jones and the Six is laid out as an oral history of a band that's basically a stand in for Fleetwood Mac. And it's messy and juicy and sexy and there's all sorts of stuff, but it reads like she has actually constructed an oral history of this real band. It's really wonderful on audio. I don't know if Erica, you do audio, but it just feels like you're hearing interviews from people that are real and that this probably existed. So that's a possibility for you. I mean, there are really no one size fits all books. Like Wild Dark Shore is probably the one from last year. Big Bria book hit the widest okay, great. Like, it hit a really wide range of readers. Ann Patchett is a good, like, Swiss army recommendation. I found I do think James by Percival Everett. And you don't need to have read Huck Finn first. It's just a wonderful reading experience. Or Angela Flournoy's the Wilderness from last year. But the thing I would really do is just go to your local bookstore and browse for a while, pick stuff up, read the synopses, read a couple sentences, and, like, whatever. You just get that. We all know what that feeling is, right? Like, where you're standing in a bookstore and you're like, oh, this is the

[A]

romantic interlude starts playing. Vaseline is over the leg. This is the.

[C]

Yep, exactly. Yeah. This is the one I want to go home with. Like, just do that and try not to apply any judgment to what it is. Like, there's no moral value here to be found. Just, that's the book you click with, and it's gonna be the thing, like, if you click with it and you're excited to sit down reading it, that will get you to sit down and keep reading. That'll get you back into fiction. So, like, just let it unfold.

[A]

Beautiful. Bria, what do you think Erica should read? Read.

[B]

There you go. I think when I want to just introduce Erica to cozy fiction, because it's not scary. So that was the thing I kind of harped on. That's, like, the whole bit. The whole bit is. It's not scary. I mean, it's gonna be. It's cozy. It's cozy. I'm gonna say try. Welcome to the Hunyam Dong Bookshop, which is a really cute book about it. It's just a woman. She's just opening up a bookstore, and she's like, wow, this is kind of hard. And. But I hated my corporate life, so, like, this is way better than that. And it's super chill. And it's stuff like, where she's like, I'm gonna have authors come. Isn't that a good idea? It's so chill, and it's so calming to read, but it's fun fiction. And, Rebecca, I will say it feels almost nonfiction y. Like, it's just. Because it's so. Just like, this is what it's like to run a business, which I love. I think something like that, like, cozy fiction, not even cozy mystery, but, like, trying to get into some cozy fiction that's not scary, but feels like it has, like, its basis in real life could be fun. What do you got for Erica?

[A]

Oh, my God, to be back there getting into books was so exciting. It's like, really, Erica, I don't want you to be intimidated. Think of your life as a beautiful. Your reading life is a beautiful blank slate. You are the literary equivalent of Charlie Bucket walking through the candy room in Wonka's Factory like that is. I want you to be singing that song when you're walking through the bookstore. And I also did the same thing that Rebecca did. And I'm gonna recommend a historical fiction. Fiction. So you got a little bit of non fiction flavor in there. I am recommending a book that came out. God, was it 2019? 2020? How much of these Hills is Gold by C. Pam Jong. It takes place during the American Gold Rush. It's like the very end of the American Gold Rush. And it follows two siblings, they're kids of Chinese immigrants. And as they try to survive and find a home. And this is fun, I think, because it's part western, part literary fiction, part historical reimagining, very gorgeous language. But because it takes place in a historical setting, it does feel like you're learning a little bit and might be a good bridge into the fiction world. And it's just, it's such a pretty book. Also, the COVID is beautiful. Great book to be like walking around in public being like, see what I'm reading. Look how, look how cool this is.

[C]

It's a great pick.

[A]

It's so. I loved that book. So, Rebecca, where can people find you? Where can people find your work? Where can people listen to Zero to well Read?

[C]

You can listen to Zero to well Read on any podcast catcher of your choice. Spotify, there are tons of them. But wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find me there every Tuesday for more like inside the world of publishing stuff, the Book Riot podcast does a news show on Mondays and then on Wednesdays we do things like the IT Books of the month or Today we are recording Power ranking the books of 2016. So we hop in the time machine, we go back 10, 20, 30 years and talk about what was popular then. So that's the Book Riot podcast, also available, of course, bookriot.com we are book riot. And then the zero to well read podcast on all of your socials and you can find me in all of those places.

[A]

As always, want to thank the wonderful mods who run our Discord server and our Facebook group. And remember, you can buy reading glasses, totes and shirts and stickers over at our Void Merch store. There's a link in the show notes to that and if you like the show, please rate and review us on the podcast listening app of your choice. It's so nice. It really helps the show. It helps our hearts, but it helps the show. And it's totally free. You can email us at reading glasses podcastmail.com find us on Instagram at Reading Glasses Podcast. Thanks for listening and thanks for reading.

[C]

Maximum Fun.

[A]

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