Ep 458 - Mostly Vibes - What We Picture When We Read

Summary

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Reading Glasses Ep 458 – Mostly Vibes: What We Picture When We Read

Release Date: April 16, 2026
Hosts: Brea Grant & Mallory O’Meara

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the unique and wildly varied mental experiences readers have when visualizing books. Brea and Mallory talk about “what we picture when we read”—how vivid or fuzzy their mental movies are, what details come forward, and how this connects to reading styles, preferences, and even personality quirks. The hosts also answer a listener’s question about large print books at the library and share middle grade book recs that adults will love, plus some listener feedback on book club strategies.

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What Are Mallory & Brea Reading? (00:38–05:19)

• Mallory’s Pick:

  • The Sixth Nik by Daniel Kraus (00:46)
    • She’s thrilled to have an early copy.
    • “This book is wild… the world building is so fascinating and so big.” (01:14)
    • Hard sci-fi, features a young girl raised in a cult for empathy missions, wild and dark bio-ships (“the ship looks like a giant tumor…you’re walking through bile”) (02:04–02:41)
    • “I haven’t been able to go to sleep at night because I’m just like, reading it and… thinking about the world that he’s created.” (03:22)

• Brea’s Pick:

  • Unread: A Memoir of Learning and Loving to Read on TikTok by Oliver James (03:39)
    • About a man who learns to read at 32 and documents the journey.
    • “It’s so great…He just like documented this whole journey on TikTok and the book is broken down between 21 key books that he learned to read and read and like really shaped and informed his experience of learning how to read.” (04:37–05:09)

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Listener Feedback: Book Club Solutions & Rituals (05:27–13:09)

Sarah’s Book Club Solution (05:27)

• Book club fix for repeat genres:
  • Genre rotation – Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Mystery, Real Life, Fiction, Romance.
  • “Rotating the genres helped so much…everyone submitted categories based on our wheelhouses.” (06:00)
  • “Bookish books for book people about books. It’s so great.” (06:47)

Danielle’s Family Ritual (07:16)

• “Bright Women’s Book Club” (mom, sister, Danielle)
  • Makes a ritual out of Reading Glasses’ anticipated episodes.
  • “As I listen to the episode, I have Storygraph up on my laptop and Libby open on my phone...then I bombard the thread with links to books in their wheelhouses and this always kicks off a lively book related conversation.” (08:05–08:40)
  • “It’s become a beautiful ritual...a fun way to stay connected to my family across multiple states.” (08:44)

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Main Topic: What We Picture When We Read (13:55–28:23)

Introduction (13:55)

• Discussing how visualizing books in your mind differs from person to person.
• Started with listener feedback on aphantasia (“apple test”).
  • 5 levels:
    1. Photorealistic images/video
    2. Detailed drawing
    3. Black/white drawing
    4. Line drawing
    5. Nothing (14:09–14:30)
  • Mallory is between 2–3. Brea is a clear 1.

How They Visualize When Reading

• Mallory:

  • “I can see the location really well…which makes me wonder if that’s why I’m a setting reader.” (15:47–15:56)
  • “I’m seeing the major things that are being described…It’s mostly vibes. It’s vibes. It’s humans without faces. It’s the back of their heads.” (18:43–18:51)

• Brea:

  • “When I open up a book, it is like threading a film into a projector for me…Watching it play out in my head.” (19:06–19:20)
  • On faces: “What I picture is literally just like the character name. Like a giant word walking around. Maybe wearing clothes. It is just like, you know…if a character’s name is Sarah…just be, like, the word ‘Sarah’ walking down the street.” (20:19–21:14)

Memorable Anecdote

• Brea’s Wuthering Heights Movie Spoiler (16:13–17:35)
  • Brea stunned to discover the protagonist dies—exclaims “She dies!” at the movie’s climax.
  • Mallory: “Just being…with tears in my eyes…Brea going, ‘She DIES.’ Such a treasured memory for me.” (18:04)

On Character Visualization

• Neither host truly “sees” character faces.

  • Mallory: “I never picture a face on a single character.” (18:39)
  • Brea: “Face descriptions are completely wasted on me...all face descriptions just go in and out the other.” (22:05–22:37)

• Brea sometimes visualizes a character as just the name (“giant word”) with clothes/hair attached.

• Mallory might see a blur, or if she tries, an actor, but “not doing it passively while reading.” (19:46–20:19)

On Setting and POV

• Both hosts see the setting in detail, often as if they are moving through it.
  • “It’s almost like me moving through the rooms. Not the characters as much—like it’s my POV.” (23:05–23:22)
  • Brea: “I will picture mossy rock…I’m picturing everything about the setting. But I am not picturing what his nose looks like. I’m not picturing literally anything about him. It is just a giant word going down the mountainside.” (23:47–24:28)

Doorways & Other Senses

• Speculation: Are “character readers” more likely to picture faces? Do “language readers” picture nothing?
  • Brea: “I would love Glasser’s [Reading Glasses fans]—write in…I hope a conversation starts up in Discord about this. If people’s level of aphantasia has a direct correlation to their preferred reading doorways.” (24:57–25:11)
• On sensory details:
  • Mallory: “If it’s near an ocean…I can like feel that…when I’m reading something cold, I am like experiencing that and picturing it…” (25:23–26:03)
  • Brea: “Reading is like watching a silent film in color in my brain.” (26:58)

Surprising Insights

• Brea and Mallory note their setting preferences (Brea loves hot/Florida books, Mallory reads “cold”/Arctic stories) contrast with their home regions.
• Both are fascinated how visual imagination (or lack thereof) might shape genre/doorway preferences.

Notable Quotes

• Mallory: “It’s mostly vibes. It’s humans without faces. It’s the back of their heads. Weirdly.” (18:43)
• Brea: “What I picture is…just the character name. Like a giant word walking around.” (20:19)
• Mallory: “If you are a character reader, are you picturing full faces?” (23:47)
• Brea: “Face descriptions are completely wasted on me…All face descriptions just go in and out the other.” (22:05)
• Mallory: “What about language readers? Are they picturing nothing at all?” (27:58)

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Bookish Advice Corner

Library Large Print Holds – Who Should Reserve? (31:49–35:35)

Listener Q (31:52)

• Is it OK to reserve a large print book if you don’t need accessibility—especially if the regular version has a long wait?
• Mallory: “If the wait time is really long, maybe stay out of it and let people who need them jump in. But…using more large print books would encourage the library to buy more of them.” (32:08–32:25)
• Brea: “If they’re not being used…these resources are for you. Yes, these are for a specific demographic. But if they’re not being used…they shouldn’t just sit there.” (33:33–34:08)
• Tip: If you do borrow a large print copy, try to return it faster than usual so it’s available for others. (34:45)

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Recommendation Request: Engaging Middle Grade Books for Kids & Adults (35:35–39:53)

Listener Request (36:42)

• 9-year-old daughter, looking for bedtime read-alouds that won’t bore adults.

Mallory’s (via friends)

• Esperanza Rising by Pam Muñoz Ryan
  • “Did not hurt her soul, which she really appreciated.”
• A Wish in the Dark by Christina Suntornvat (Les Misérables retelling for kids, set in Southeast Asia)
• The Beatrice Prophecy (middle grade, medieval fantasy)
• More options to be linked in the show notes.

Brea’s Pick

• The House with Chicken Legs by Sophie Anderson
  • “Wonderfully sweet and whimsical middle grade fantasy…The house itself is a funny character.”
  • Also recommends The Girl Who Could Speak Bear.

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Closing Thoughts & Community

• Listeners are encouraged to share how they visualize when reading—and whether their imagination affects their reading preferences or “doorways” (character, setting, language, plot). (27:44–28:23)
• General call to join discussion on Discord and send in questions.
• Merch plug: Spring T-shirts/tank tops via Void Merch.

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Notable Quotes

• “It’s mostly vibes…humans without faces…it’s the back of their heads.” — Mallory (18:43)
• “What I picture is literally just like the character name…like a giant word walking around.” — Brea (20:19)
• “Reading is like watching a silent film in color in my brain.” — Brea (26:58)
• “All face descriptions just go in and out the other.” — Brea (22:37)
• “If you do borrow a large print copy…maybe you don’t let it sit for the full 21 days…you move with a little haste.” — Brea (34:45)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:38 – What Are You Reading?
• 05:27 – Listener Book Club Rituals
• 13:55 – Main Topic: Visualizing When Reading & Aphantasia
• 15:47 – Mallory: Setting Reader & Visualization
• 19:06 – Brea: Reading as Film, Faces as Names
• 24:57 – Community Call: Visualization & Doorways
• 31:49 – Large Print Holds at the Library
• 35:35 – Middle Grade Books Adults Will Love

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This episode is a celebration of how our reading brains are all so different, sparking curiosity and empathy for how we all bring stories alive inside our heads. Listeners are encouraged to join the conversation and explore their unique reading “vibes.”

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Transcript

[Mallory O']

Foreign.

[Bria Grant]

You're listening to Reading Glasses, a show about book culture and literary life designed to help you read better. I'm author and book devourer, Mallory o'.

[Mallory O']

Meara. And I'm Bria Grant, filmmaker and e reader. On this episode, we're talking about what we picture when we read. So you're reading and you're like, what are you seeing in your mind's eye?

[Bria Grant]

Everyone is different. And it's so fascinating to me.

[Mallory O']

It is really interesting. And it's interesting to see where we have parallels, Mallory. That was something I was surprised about. Plus, we debate who should check out large print books from the library and recommend compelling middle grade books.

[Bria Grant]

But first, Bria, what are you reading?

[Mallory O']

Okay. I am the luckiest book podcaster in the world.

[Bria Grant]

What did you get?

[Mallory O']

An early copy of the new Daniel Kraus. It's called the Sixth Nick Nik Nik. It comes out in June. I loved Whale Fall. And then last year angel down was one of my favorite books of the year. And so I got an early copy of this from. From the author, which is so nice of him. Okay. He's venturing into hard sci fi, which is basically the book I've been.

[Bria Grant]

Did you jump up and flick your

[Mallory O']

heels like, this book is wild? This book is. Okay. I don't even know where to begin because the world building is so fascinating and so big. But I'm going to tell you what it says on the description because I'm about halfway through and a lot has happened that's not on this description. But essentially there is a young girl who's nine who's part of this sort of like, cult thing where they raise these young women with, like, modifications in their brains to be super empathetic and be able to read people essentially really well. And then they go and do like, missions at age 9, and their missions always end in their death. So trigger warnings for that, but also trigger warnings for literally anything you can think of, because this book is the craziest book I've ever read. And I read a lot of wild books and there are things happening where I'm like, oh, no. Oh, you didn't do this. It's wild. So at some point she gets on this ship, which is to go to this, like, help this planet that has a plague, a plague where basically they're people who were living in on Earth and they all had ingrown hairs and the hairs started growing in so much that they started taking over their lungs and their hearts and things like that. And so they sent them to this Other planet. And so she's going to this other planet for a mission, essentially, and she gets on this ship and. Okay, this is the other thing I'll tell you, and then I'll quit talking about it because there's so much to talk about with this book. But the idea is that the spaceships sort of in this world are created not by the Internet, like, not by an AI controlled by the Internet, but like kind of some other. I don't know how to explain it. Some sort of. It's like a. It's like a biomatter ship. Okay. And this ship happens to look like a giant tumor. So you're like walking through it and you're like in a throat, but also it's like you're walking through bile. I don't know. It's the wildest book I've ever read. It is so creative. It has a bit of a ragtag crew situation. It is not a light book. This is a heavy book. But also the world building is so fascinating that I haven't been able to go to sleep at night because I'm just like, reading it and I'm inhaling it and just can't like, it's. It's just keeping me up because I want to think about the world that he's created. It's fantastic. It's. I think it's going to be on a lot of lists this year. People are going to be talking about this book because it is so wild.

[Bria Grant]

Lists of most wild book. Wow.

[Mallory O']

What are you reading?

[Bria Grant]

I'm reading nothing like that. I am.

[Mallory O']

No, you're not reading a tumor spaceship book.

[Bria Grant]

I am reading a nonfiction book. I'm listening to the audiobook of Unread by Oliver James, which was one of our most. One of my most anticipated books for January, February, and I finally got it from the library. It's narrated by. The beginning is narrated by the author, Oliver James. And then the rest of the book is narrated by James Shippy, which is funny that it's James Shippy and Oliver James, but it is. It's a memoir about this man that, at 32 years old, decided that it was time for him to learn how to read. And it's such an amazing, wild story, especially because the beginning of the book is, like, about all the ways that he was able to, like, get by in the world without reading. Like, someone would text him something and he would just like, copy paste that to send to someone else later because he knew kind of like what that meant.

[Mallory O']

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

So, so fascinating. And how, like, he just like documented this whole, whole journey on TikTok and the book is broken down, which is really cool, between 21 key books that he learned to read and read and like really shaped and informed his experience of learning how to read. So this is like, if you're a books about books person, you gotta get into this. It's so. It's so great. I have an extremely long drive, two extremely long drives coming up this week and then next week and I will be. I've only read the first few chapters cause I'm saving the rest of this book for this drive and it's great so far. So that is unread. A memoir of learning and loving to read on TikTok by Oliver James. Narrated by James Shippy.

[Mallory O']

And mine is the sixth Nick by Daniel Kraus.

[Bria Grant]

So we want to take a moment to share some listener feedback. Sarah wrote in to say hi, Mallory and Bria. I just wanted to write in to tell you how my book club solved the problem of reading the same book repeatedly. We're still getting a lot of great feedback from our book club episode where we saw great. Our wonderful friend Chelsea Stardust came on to help us solve book club dramas. And this book club has a great idea. So Sarah says the book club started in 2016, run by a local indie bookstore. I joined in January 2018, and during the pandemic, the bookstore pivoted to Zoom meetings. But the host manager of the bookstore discovered she couldn't juggle everything and had to stop. And myself and one of the other regulars took over as co hosts in 2023. We somehow had read too many of the same sort of book. This would be. This would be my book club. It'd be like, Mallory, we've read which haunted house book? 10 haunted house haunted house books in a row. And I'm like, oh. So my co host came up with the idea of choosing the books for the whole year instead of only a few months in advance. And then rotating by genre each month, we chose Sci Fi, Fantasy, Mystery, Real Life, Fiction, and Romance. We all put in suggestions for each genre and then voted. Rotating the genres helped so much. Doing this made people stop feeling like they were reading the same thing. Because many of our members listen to reading glasses. This year, everyone submitted categories based on our wheelhouses. Oh my God, I love this. And did our selections that way. So our categories are Timey Wimey Books, About Time, Locked Room Mysteries, Sci Fi, Action Packed Translated Books, Bookish Books for book People, Anything to do with libraries, bookstores and books. Thanks for all that you do. I love this. Bookish books for book people about books. It's so great. I think Roxane Gay does this with her book club is she picks all the books for the for each month for the whole year and then like releases the list.

[Mallory O']

So that's smart. Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

But I love this because then I love doing a different genre. I love everyone picking like their own, especially like a very specific wheelhouse genre that is. I love this. This is a really fun idea for a book club.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, that's really fun. Danielle wrote in and said hi, Mallory and Bria. I just have to say that while I love all your episodes, the most anticipated episodes are the ones I'm most anticipating. Pun intended. I'm a millennial and my mom's sister and I are all big readers. We love to share what we're reading, but we all have very different wheelhouses. My mom loves cozy mysteries and biographies. My sister loves dark academia and honker world building fantasy series. My mom's last name is Bright. Also both of our middle names. So we call ourselves the Bright Women's Book Club. So cute. For almost for every most anticipated episode, I carve out a quiet weekend morning to myself. I make coffee, grab my phone and laptop, and sit out in my tropical garden. What this is. Your life is amazing, Daniel. I know.

[Bria Grant]

Can you listen to me? Adopt us, please?

[Mallory O']

Yeah, yeah, your tropical garden. As I listen to the episode, I have storygraph up on my laptop and Libby open on my phone. I look up the books you mentioned, pause the episode, read the description in story graph and if it piques my interest, I tag it in Libby and or storygraph. After I finish the episode, I pull up the episode details on my phone and scan all the other books that you don't talk about. Mallory loves that and I go through the same process based on your descriptions. But then I also keep eye out for books that I think my mom or sister might enjoy. I send a group text to Bright Women's Book Club. Book recs coming, haven't read but you might enjoy. Then I bombard the thread with links to books in their wheelhouses and this always kicks off a lively book related conversation. It's become a beautiful ritual for me every two months. I found so many great recommendations and it's a fun way to stay connected to my family across multiple states. Thank you so much, Mallory for all the work you put into these episodes and to both of you for creating an uplifting community. We wow. I feel so honored right now. What a like what A goddamn honor.

[Bria Grant]

This is beautiful.

[Mallory O']

It's so nice.

[Bria Grant]

Danielle's wheelhouse is literary fiction centering existentialism or multi generational family dysfunction. Literary journalism, dark fantasy novellas, and my newly discovered love of magical realism horror. Thanks to your podcast. You introduced me to Rachel Harrison and Grady Hendrix. Ooh, I love this. Thank you. This is so beautiful. And I also. Folks, we want to say this is the last episode before the Max Fun Drive. You can put in some work too, because the anticipated books episodes will not be coming back if we do not hit our one of our goals for new members. So we need for. So if there are folks who have not signed up yet, you can do your part when the Max Fund drive starts next week and sign up to support at any level. Go to maximumfund.org join to sign up to support Reading Glasses where we haven't released all of our stuff yet, but we are saying the anticipated books episodes are not coming back unless we hit one of our goals because they require so, so much work. So if you love these, now's the time. You can email us at reading glasses podcastmail.com if you want a list of all the books we talk about on the show delivered to your inbox every month, you can sign up for our newsletter. There's a link in the show notes and bookmark. Remember Max Fund drives next week. This year we are focusing on new members, so we are giving out personalized book recommendations from Bria and I for every new member. Every new member doesn't matter if you're joining at $5 a month or $50 a month. If you email us during the drive with your recommendation request and send a screenshot of your membership, you're going to get it in the discord and you're going to get a personalized recommendation from Bria and I. No recommendation request. Too weird. We have done some weird ones, let me tell you.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, go weird, go weird, go weird. Give us an easy one. We're doing a lot of these.

[Bria Grant]

You know, maybe.

[Mallory O']

Maybe an easy one would be nice.

[Bria Grant]

Like, you're just like the weird ones. I think. My, my. My favorite that that has gone down on legendary and reading glasses history is the one that. Where someone asked for books that prominently feature Farber's Markets. And you know what? We had Rex for it. We did.

[Mallory O']

God, we have even more now.

[Bria Grant]

I know. So, new members, this is next week from. When you're listening to this episode, MaximumFun.org join to sign up new members. That's what we're focusing on. This year we want some new glassers. So before we talk about what you picture when you read, we're going to take a quick break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by Green Chef. But what is Green Chef? You're sitting at your home, your name, maybe your name is Mallory Omara, and you hate eating food. And you're like, I don't know what to eat, I don't know what to buy, I don't know how to meal plan. Green Chef. All of a sudden, a delivery truck comes along. Green Chef delivers real food, delicious recipes that make healthy eating easy. Really, any kind of eating easy. But healthy eating, which is a lot harder and requires a lot more planning, they make that easy. With Green Chef, every week you get over 40 recipes made with organic produce, responsibly sourced proteins and nothing you can't pronounce. 40 recipes to choose from. That's. I don't even know If I know 40 recipes. That's so many recipes. That's so much choice. You can pick what matters to you. Doesn't matter what kind of diet you have. Maybe you're trying to eat Mediterranean, you're trying to eat high protein, you don't eat meat, you have food allergies. Any person out there who's like, I'm worried about going out to eat because I'm going to have to ask the serving staff for a lot of substitutions. Green Chef has got you covered. They even have a new longevity line built around brain and gut health. We love that. Keep your brain healthy for more reading. And if you want guidance beyond the plate, they include free unlimited. I'm going to say that again. Free unlimited one on one nutrition coaching. I love that. So much food is so stressful for me. It is very confusing. I wish I could plug myself into a wall like a phone. But because I can' do that, Green Chef is the next best thing. And if you are like that or you just are busy, you don't have time for meal planning and figuring out what you're going to eat next week. Green Chef is perfect. So you can head to greenchef.com 50glasses and use code 50glasses to get 50% off your first month. Then 20% off for two months. That's code [e-mail] 50glasses glasses.

[Jordan Crucciola]

Max Fun Drive starts next week. Max Fun. Shows like this one are creator owned. The network is worker owned and we're all supported by members just like you. Max Fund Drive is the best time to support the shows you love. You can get Drive exclusive gifts, a bunch of new bonus content, and join in on the fun as shows hit their milestones. Plus, we've got dozens of meetups and counting. We got live streams and more, so stay tuned because you don't want to miss it. Max Fun Drive 2026 is starting Monday, April 20th.

[Bria Grant]

This week, we're talking about what we picture when we read. The mental experience of reading is so different for everyone. We've been talking recently on the show about how readers visualize books. So we thought it would be fun to share what books look like in our own brains. All right, so, Bria, this all started with some listener feedback about Aphantasia, which means a reader cannot picture things in their mind when they read. And there's levels to it. So this is called the apple test. There's five different levels. One is essentially just when you think about an apple, you think of a photo of an apple. A realistic, like, video footage of an apple. Two is like a detailed drawing, but it's not, like, photorealistic. Three is a black and white drawing. Four is a line drawing. Five is nothing. And I am a one. And, Bria, you're like, you're a two, right?

[Mallory O']

I. I can't remember what we said. I think I'm somewhere between, like, a two and a three. Like, and sometimes I'm a four. I have, like, the pictures are vague. They're very. I can pick. I can. But I have to, like, really, I have to think about it. I have to think, like, what it looks like. This is a problem because I direct movies, and I have to do have to think about this quite a bit. Like, I have to go, okay, it would look like this. It would look like this. It can't just, like, immediately picture it just because we're talking about, like, okay, the book I'm reading now. There is. I can think. I can see. I don't really picture, like, people's faces, which we'll get into. But, like, I can picture the show.

[Bria Grant]

We both do.

[Mallory O']

I know, but yeah. So I would say I'm two to three. Two to three? Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

I'm a one. Like, I can right now. I can conjure up memories of apples I've held and eaten, which is very dear to me because I'm allergic to raw apples.

[Mallory O']

But is that different than what you're picturing with?

[Bria Grant]

No. When I'm reading, if I'm reading and the line is, someone picked up an apple, I am picturing a hand. I'm looking at video footage of some. A hand picking up an apple. So what. So if you are between a two and a three, what do you. What do you see in your brain when you read? Like, you were like, all right, you're walking through the tumor spaceship. What are, what's go. What are you seeing in your brain?

[Mallory O']

Okay, I am seeing the location which we're. We were going to talk about. But, like, I can see the location really well, which is. Makes me wonder if that's why I'm a setting reader, because I can.

[Bria Grant]

This episode is making us learn some things about ourselves which I find fascinating

[Mallory O']

because I'm seeing, like, the major things that are being described. At one point, there's, like, teeth on the wall. I'm like, oh, I can think. I can see those teeth.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, is it like the bedroom in Wuthering Heights?

[Mallory O']

Sort of, actually. Sort of, yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, my God. Can I tell that story about. This is such a tangent, but can I tell this? That story about when we went to go see Wuthering Heights at the end?

[Mallory O']

No. What happened? Okay, yes, tell the story. I don't remember.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, so folks, if you are like, Ms. Bria Grant did not know anything about Wuthering Heights, please skip forward. If you don't. If you don't want the ending spoiled, even though it's a very old book, just skip ahead like a minute or two. But if you don't care or you know how Wuthering Heights ends. So me and Bria and our friend Anthony went to go see Wuthering Heights. And I had also never read Wuthering Heights, but, like, it's enough of a big book and culture that, like, I knew how it ended, especially because I love. I love that Kate Bush song which I sent to Bri afterwards. And she did not, like, didn't like it. But so. And I just assumed that you knew how it ended. So we're. We're three of us, we're watching this movie, we're having a great time. The. And then the movie ends and it's a completely silent movie theater. And Bria goes. She dies really loudly.

[Mallory O']

And I could also, like, Bria and

[Bria Grant]

I are both crying. Our friend Anthony is crying.

[Mallory O']

I did not know. I was like, well, she can't die, right? That's not the plot of the book. And then she died. And I was like, are you fucking joking right now? I couldn't believe it.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, my God.

[Mallory O']

I was surprised by a very old book. And, like, that's a good listen for somebody who, like, reads spoilers. That was a really well kept secret.

[Bria Grant]

I Get. Oh, my. Maybe it's because I am. I am obsessed with Kate Bush. I love Kate Bush. I've listened to that song a zillion times. And, like, I. I don't know. Like, I just. Her dying and, like, kind of like haunting him is. I guess I just knew it culturally.

[Mallory O']

I learned. I learned about it afterwards, but I. I was very surprised. But it was like, I can't believe they're not gonna kill her. Not Margot Robbie.

[Bria Grant]

Just being sitting there be, like, with tears in my eyes, watching this movie in this completely silent movie theater. Bria going, she dies. Such a treasured memory for me. But anyway, okay, so you're walking around, you're reading about this. The tumorship.

[Mallory O']

Okay, let me just say. Here's what my reading. What's going on my head. It's mostly vibes. It's mostly vibes. Like, there is a main character, the main character in the book in the tumorship, who has no hair and, like, scars and stuff on her head. But I'm kind of picturing, like, 11 from Stranger Things, but no face. I never picture a face on a single character.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O']

What do you.

[Bria Grant]

What do you think? So you're in this tumorship, and it's all vibes for you?

[Mallory O']

It's just mostly vibes. It's mostly vibes. It's vibes. It's humans without faces. It's the back of their heads. Weirdly, like, it is, like.

[Bria Grant]

But it's kind of vague. It's not like, kind of.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, yeah. Like, I can see the space, but it's mostly the vibe. It's the feeling of where I'm at more than the actual humans that are there.

[Bria Grant]

The atmosphere. Okay, that's interesting.

[Mallory O']

It's a bit of an atmosphere. Yeah. What are you picturing?

[Bria Grant]

Me. When I open up a book, it is like threading a film into a projector for me. I am not super aware of the sensation of looking at words. It is literally me watching it play out in my head. And with some books, if I have a hard time getting that projector threaded, I end up dumping those books because they're just, like, not for my brain right now, but, like, I am. There's a. There's a thriller that I'm reading that I am 77% of the way through right now. And when I open it, I'm so in the book that I, like, I'm. I'm want. Like, I'm watching characters close car doors and run down the sidewalk, and, like, I'm just. I'm watching it Happen. That's how I. That's how I. So, speaking of characters, so are you. You're just picturing the vague shapes of people. You are not. No faces.

[Mallory O']

Sometimes hair, you know, maybe an out, maybe a little bit of an outfit, but it's a blur. It's just a straight up. It's a person without a face. It's. It's. It's very. Yeah, it's very impersonal where I know a lot of people are like, oh, I picture this actor or this person, and like, I kind of can do that. If I think about it, like, I'll be like, oh, yeah, I can see that actor. I can see, you know, Margot Robbie and Wuthering Heights or whatever. But I. But I. But I'm not. That's it. It's like an act. That's an active brain thing. I'm not doing it passively while reading. Are you. You're not picturing face.

[Bria Grant]

Mine's really embarrassing. I do not. It is so silly. What I picture is literally just like the character name. Like a giant word walking around.

[Mallory O']

Oh, yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. Maybe wearing clothes. It is just like, you know, so

[Mallory O']

it's not like a threaded film then.

[Bria Grant]

But it just makes the characters except for the characters. And I wonder if it's because it's weird. Takes so much extra. I read so fast, and I'm such a plot reader that it takes. I think. I wonder if it takes extra time for my brain to, like, render a face that it's just like. It's just there. It's just their name. Like a giant, like. Like, you know that famous painter that, like, writes huge words on paintings.

[Mallory O']

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

It's looks.

[Mallory O']

I can't tell you who that is, though.

[Bria Grant]

I don't know. I can't remember the name of the painter. There's a lot of the paintings at Fred 62 in Los Feliz. Yeah, it's just that. It's just like, literally a giant word walking down the street. Like, if a character's name is Sarah, that's weird. It's just like. It would just be, like, the word Sarah walking down the street. It's so.

[Mallory O']

Kind of feels like a kids show where it's like the letter N is like.

[Bria Grant]

That is 100% what I'm picturing. It is so weird. Like, maybe it might wear. Have some kind of clothes on, but probably not. Like, if I keep any description, the

[Mallory O']

letters have clothes on.

[Bria Grant]

Maybe sometimes. Wow. Okay.

[Mallory O']

So it is like a kids show.

[Bria Grant]

It's so weird. And I may be. Hair color but like, in it. Okay, I will say it gets better if I read a series and I've been with the same character for a while. Like, when I read the Library of the Dead, Edinburgh Knights, books by Teal Huchu, I kind. I kind of picture Ropa Moyo. I don't really see the details of her face, but I see the details of her body and her hair and her clothes. Like, because I. Only because I've read five books with her and the description, the details have started to filter in. All face descriptions are completely wasted on me. Like, yeah, I feel bad.

[Mallory O']

This has to do with the way that humans process faces or something that we don't. Because I feel like in dreams, I also, like, don't have like, a good sense of who people are. Like, you know what I mean? Like, in dreams, people kind of also have my dreams. They have like, non faces same.

[Bria Grant]

And I, like, I feel bad for. So as someone who just wrote my first novel, I was like, what's the point of even describing any of these faces? It doesn't matter. Like, I have never. I. I don't know what an Aqualine nose looks like. I am so. Authors love an Aqualine nose. Like, I, they just.

[Mallory O']

What does it even mean? I don't know what that means.

[Bria Grant]

I think it's like a. Like a Roman. Like, it's kind of like a nose with like a. Like a bump in it maybe.

[Mallory O']

Oh, okay.

[Bria Grant]

I don't. I don't. I don't know. And you know what? I'm not gonna find out because I, I like, all face descriptions just go in and out the other. Like, Like, I, they don't. They don't factor in for me, like, unless it's like such a huge plot point. But even, like, it just does. Is not for me. So what about the setting, though? Are you picturing the setting into it?

[Mallory O']

Well, it's interesting we're the same here because I do think. I thought. Because I was a setting reader, I'm picturing settings. I'm picturing the tumorship. I'm like, okay, I know this is like. I can picture it. I can picture like, what they. The rooms look like, but it's almost like me moving through the rooms. Not the characters as much like it's me. It's my POV.

[Bria Grant]

Yes, 100%.

[Mallory O']

Like, I'm like, they're like, opening up the weird, like, fleshy throat of the tumor show. And they're like, who knows this lady?

[Bria Grant]

Why is she. Why. Who's this blonde lady in here?

[Mallory O']

And it's my hands. You know, it's like me opening it up. Yeah. So same for you.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. I picture it and I wonder if this is why we like setting so much for our doorways. And I wonder if this factors into whether people are plot or setting or language or character readers.

[Mallory O']

Interesting. If your character reader. Are you picturing full faces?

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, because that would be huge. Like, if I was picturing people, I really think that might change the way I rate read books and what types of books I was attracted to. For me, like, I'm picturing the room in detail, the landscape, the weather. Like, I will picture. I will picture mossy rock. Like there's a scene in a book that. The book that I'm reading or there's a character like fleeing through this like seaside cliff thing. And I'm picturing moss on the rocks. I'm picturing fog coming down the hillside. But I'm not picturing what his nose looks like. I'm not picturing literally anything about him. It is just a giant word going down the mountainside. But I am picturing everything about the setting in Someone draw this.

[Mallory O']

A giant word going down.

[Bria Grant]

Someone draw just the word Mallory. Like doing stuff down the street. And it's frustrating because even in a romance novel which is like so character focused and like the descriptions are so those. I do not picture a veiny forearmbria.

[Mallory O']

I can picture a veiny form, but

[Bria Grant]

it's on its own.

[Mallory O']

I can picture a floating in space. Yeah, yeah. The face is nebulous again, but like no face.

[Bria Grant]

Veiny forearms.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, yeah, Just a blank face but full forearms.

[Bria Grant]

But I would really love Glasser's write in and I would love. I hope a conversation starts up in the discord about this because I am very curious to see if people's level of aphantasia has a direct correlation to their preferred reading.

[Mallory O']

Doorways.

[Bria Grant]

That is very fascinating. So, like. Yeah, but also on top of that, like, what about other details? Like temperature, smell? Sounds like. Are you making a spacescape? Not soundscape, but you know what I mean? Like in your head.

[Mallory O']

Yeah. Maybe if it's near like an ocean or something. I'm like, can. It's like there's waves. I can like feel that. But the only thing I was thinking through, I was like, really hot. No, but if it's cold, I am thinking about cold. I'm thinking about cold a lot. And maybe it's because I sleep in a really cold room and I read at night, but I don't. I don't know, like I I keep that thing like sub zero now and like maybe that' why. But I definitely, when I think about cold, when I think when I'm reading something cold, I am like experiencing that and picturing it a lot more than if it was just like, oh, it's hot here or it's like sunny or whatever. Like that's not really as much in my experience. What about you? Are you doing. I mean, because you put on music too. So I feel like that with the sounds would get in the way.

[Bria Grant]

Like as soon as I start reading, I can't hear anything. I. That is one. I have a few superpowers. One of them you could drop me onto an active battlefield and I could read through it. Like I. And I wonder if part of it is because I don't hear super well. It's very easy for me to do that. But I just like, I can focus in right on a book and I am, I am not hearing, hearing things. But yeah, there's certain things like it's funny, I won't picture cold. Like if I was in the book. There's just like me in a, in a, in a. In an Arnold Schwarzenegger T shirt standing in the Arctic, like looking around like not phased by the cold. I will. If I'm reading a Florida book, I might think about the heat a little bit. But I, I am not doing the other details. I'm not doing smell. Like I will acknowledge a smell if it's mentioned, but I'm not. Like, sounds are not factoring into my brain. Most of the other details. It's really just like visual setting details. Like for me, reading is like watching a silent film in color in my brain.

[Mallory O']

I feel like it's interesting that you pictured hot and I picture cold considering we grew up in places that were the opposite. And you like, I grew up in a hot place, but so like hot is like, that's just normal to me. But when it's cold, I'm like, ah, this is like, I can acknowledge how weird this is it.

[Bria Grant]

And you like books that take place in cold places and I like Florida books.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, that's interesting. Don't know what that means.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it's. This is really. I thought this was just going to be a fun, silly episode, but I'm like, this is really giving me some insight into the way. I wonder if how much your brain works really factors into what types of books you like to read. That is. It's so fascinating to me.

[Mallory O']

Sure it does. Yeah. Let's hear from people. If you are A setting reader or if you are a character reader. If you're a character reader. We want to know if you're picturing those faces, what are those faces doing?

[Bria Grant]

That feels just like so much work for your. Like that's like.

[Mallory O']

But it's not if that's just the way you picture it. You know, people think that you filming, doing a film is a lot of work.

[Bria Grant]

Do you think that people are picturing just the characters and not the setting? Because that would be wild.

[Mallory O']

It's just too hot.

[Bria Grant]

People with baby faces floating around in space. I don't know. What about language readers? Are they, are they picturing nothing at all?

[Mallory O']

Like maybe, maybe, maybe that's how is. If you're like a. Which one is it? Is it five is the least?

[Bria Grant]

Five is the most.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, maybe five.

[Bria Grant]

Five is the least. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Mallory O']

Maybe the five people picture nothing. It's that they're drawn to the words on the page and the language rather than the.

[Bria Grant]

Somebody set up a survey where it's like you pick your level of aphantasia and then you pick your doorway. Because I am so fascinated by this. Either way, please email us. Send your thoughts to reading glassespodcastmail.com before we debate about large print books, we're gonna take a quick piece break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by Storyworth. Folks, Mother's Day is coming up. It can be a really stressful holiday because moms mean a lot to folks. Moms do so much. I don't even like reading books about stressed out moms because I feel so bad for these moms and I want the world for them. If you're looking for an extra special way to show the mom, the mother figure in your life how much she matters and Storyworth has got you covered. Most Mother's Day gifts are about one moment just opening up a present and boom, it's done. Storyworth is so much more. Storyworth gives your mom or your mother figure a year long experience and then when that's over, gives your whole family a book filled with the stories that only she can tell. This is the way that it works. Every single week, Storyworth sends her a question about her life and she can respond however she wants. She can write back over email or on their website. She can send it a voice recording or new this year, she can have a guided phone call. No apps, no login, no tech hassle. Beautiful. And you can pick the questions. You can choose from pre written questions. You can write your own or you can let Storyworth create personalized questions based on her life. You get each story as she tells it. And after a year, Storyworth compiles everything, her words, her photos, and her life into a beautiful hardcover book that your whole family can enjoy. Bri and I both have had nothing but positive experiences with Storyworth. Very famously on this show, Bria's awesome mom dawn, loved hers and got copies of it for her whole family. Storyworth is so awesome. And again, it continues to give month after month for a whole year. It can bring you closer and make you ask questions about your mom or the mother figure in your life that you might not think to ask in everyday life. You know, when you're just hanging out and having a normal day, you're not thinking about asking deep questions about life. Storyworth does that for you this year. Give your mom or your mother figure a gift that helps her reflect on her life with a fresh perspective and gives your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's day is Sunday, May 10th. Order right now and save up to 20 [e-mail] glasses save up to 20 [e-mail] glasses that's StoryWorth.com glasses glasses. I'm Jordan Crucciola, host of Feeling Scene,

[Mallory O']

where every week I have a different

[Bria Grant]

actor, director or writer as my co host.

[Mallory O']

And whoever that co host may be,

[Bria Grant]

it is a sure bet that we are digging deep and having a great time doing it.

[Mallory O']

I love that you just said that. Yeah, I mean, if I were gonna join a cult, I think this might be it.

[Bria Grant]

A fresh look at your favorite film

[Mallory O']

and a peek behind the curtain at how movies get made. Oh, okay. I'm gonna tell you this full story. Okay. I almost got fired from that movie. You should be listening to Feeling Seen. I had so much fun.

[Bria Grant]

I love what you're doing. I hope I did okay.

[Mallory O']

New episodes every week on Maximum Fun.

[Bria Grant]

Now let's answer a bookish question from one of our listeners.

[Mallory O']

Hi Bria and Mallory. Love the POD and all you do. Thank you for helping me prioritize enjoyment and community in my reading life rather than competition. I was going to reserve the new Emily Henry book at my local library. Yea libraries and as expected, there's a pretty large holds line. I'm fine with waiting, but as I was adding my name to the list, I noticed that the library also has a few copies of the large print editions with fewer readers in line. I was tempted to reserve this instead, but felt I shouldn't take a spot since these copies were meant to be available to folks with visual impairments. I was curious to hear y' all discuss your perspective on large print books. Books and any other thoughts you may have on ways we can support accessibility in the library. P. S. I'm starting to work on my wheelhouse, and this is what I've got so far. Do you want to read the wheelhouse?

[Bria Grant]

We got queer shit. Amazing books with flowery and passion descriptions of classical music.

[Mallory O']

Oh, my God, send us examples of that because, like, that's so interesting.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. And the historical fiction with citations and enemies to lovers banter. I'm wearing my enemies to lovers hat right now.

[Mallory O']

Oh, cute.

[Bria Grant]

What a fascinating wheelhouse. Okay, so I. We did talk about this a while ago on the show, but it was years and years, and I thought it would be good to revisit. And of course, librarians and large print book users write in. Bria and I are neither and, as always, giving our best advice. I understand the hesitation that Liz is having here, but my thought is that maybe up to a certain point, using more large print books would encourage the library to buy more of them. I think if the wait time is really long, maybe stay out of it and let people who need them jump in. But if it's not that long, or if it's available and you want to read the book right away, I don't know. I think this might be okay for bumping up the number of large print book checkouts. Am I. Am I off base here? What do you think?

[Mallory O']

No, I. With. I'm with you on this one. I think, like, if there's a wait over there, then obviously they are being really used a lot. But, like, if they're not being used, you know, the library is a public resource. You are part of the public. Like, these resources are for you. Yes. These are for a specific demographic. But if they're not being used or it's just, like, much less in use, I. Y'. All. Y' all can write in and disagree with me because someone's gonna probably gonna be like, this is frustrating because I. I need these books, which I totally get. But it would be nice to use the books if they're not being used. You know, they shouldn't just sit there. There's no point in having a bunch of large prints books if no one's using them.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O']

So I'm with you on this. I think this is good. And also, like, yeah, I mean, order more. Maybe they'll order more large print books. What they should do is order more of the non large print Books, because obviously there's a huge weight. But they should be ordering. They can only order so many books. Maybe more of both. So either way, you're using your hold to encourage them to buy more books, which is great. Maybe jump on both those holds, you know, maybe see which one comes in sooner. And then also they know that this is a very. This is a coveted book.

[Bria Grant]

And the only other thing I will add to this is that if you are jumping in on a format that you don't need, maybe you read it a little faster than you normally do. Maybe you don't let it.

[Mallory O']

That's nice.

[Bria Grant]

Maybe you don't let it sit for the full 21 days or because LA, we get 21 days. I know some places do longer or shorter, but maybe. Maybe you move with a little haste.

[Mallory O']

You know, some places are doing shorter.

[Bria Grant]

Shorter.

[Mallory O']

That's. That's 21 days is fast. I feel like I didn't know some places did shorter.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, I think. I don't know.

[Mallory O']

Okay, just wondering.

[Bria Grant]

I write in and let us know how many. LA is 21 days. I forget what Riverside county is. I think it might be around the same, but let us know. I'd be fascinated just to see if people who are. I feel like three weeks is kind of like the perfect amount. Two weeks feels a little too short. Month feels a little too long.

[Mallory O']

Yeah. A month I think is fine. Also. A month is fine because it's even, you know, but two weeks, I'm like, there's just. Most people are not finishing a book in two weeks like the average reader. Yeah, especially, you know, it's not very long. Yeah, for sure.

[Bria Grant]

But yeah, write in, let us know. Chime in. I'd love to hear from librarians and large print book users, but I. I feel like as long as you are doing it in a way that is considerate, again, you are not jumping in on a really, really long line. Or you are. You're not. Aren't keeping it for longer than you need to. I feel like this not. Not bad. Maybe, maybe encouraging people to. To buy more large print books. And if you want us to solve your reader problem, you can send it to reading classes. Podcastmail.com. Time to answer a recommendation request from Anna who says hello. I love your podcast, am a faithful listener and love your recommendations. Thank you for doing this work. It's so useful and fun to listen to you both every week. I've been listening for a while, so now I feel like I am listening into a convers friends of mine discussing my favorite Topic books. I have a recommendation request. I have a 9 year old daughter and I read out loud to her every night. Obviously we read children's books that are age appropriate for her. Sometimes I love the books, but sometimes the books are, for obvious reasons, very tedious for me as an adult. Can you think of books that would be appropriate for kids but also enjoyable for adults? I would love to get some ideas. Bria, what do you think?

[Mallory O']

I got Rex from two of my friends from college who have kids for this one. I have a whole bunch of them, but I'll give you a couple here and then we'll just link to a few. The first one is Esperanza Rising by Pam Munoz Ryan. It's about the daughter of wealthy Mexican parents and it follows her after her father's murder and they have to flee to California during the Great Depression and they find they start working, doing agricultural work. And she said that this one did not hurt her soul, which she really appreciated, meaning it was entertaining, good for adults. Okay. Another book my friend recommended is called A Wish in the Dark by Christina Suntornvat and it's a retelling of Les Miserables for kids, which sounds great for kids set in Southeast Asia. So that sounds really cool. There's also a couple of graphic novels on this list. There's another book called the Beatrice Prophecy, which is a medieval middle grade book. So I have about five or six that I'm gonna link to in the show notes, but those are two from friends. They've been vetted and they said they will not kill your soul, which is the key. Don't kill your soul while you're reading

[Bria Grant]

to your child, especially if you're gonna have to be reading it over and over again.

[Mallory O']

Yeah, exactly. What do you have for Anna?

[Bria Grant]

Well, I want to say first off, up top that we have been doing, we still get people write in asking for recommendations for kids and we've been doing less of them on the show, I think partially because this is an explicitly marked show. And I just feel like, weird about having like content for kids on there. Yeah, especially because so many people write in and tell me what a horrible person I am for swearing. So, like, I feel weird about having like kid centric stuff on the show, but because this is not a kids book recommendation for just a kid, it's a kid's book recommendation also for an adult. So I felt okay putting it in and I had to dig deep for this one because most of the middle grade books I read are horror. Probably not ideal for a before bed read. So I am recommending the House with Chicken Legs by Sophie Anderson. Really anything by Sophie Anderson. She writes these like wonderfully sweet and whimsical middle grade fantasy novels. Then they usually have a strong female protagonist. This one in particular is about a girl who grows up in Baba Yaga's house and she is being trained to be a Baba Yaga and she doesn't want to be a Baba Yaga.

[Mallory O']

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

And the House with Chicken Legs is very sassy House has a lot of, lot of opinions and is a funny character in itself. It's just, it's very compelling, it's very fun. And this author has quite a few books so you'll be set for a while if your daughter likes her. But yeah, they're all like fun middle grade fantasy. And I have, I've read, I've read this one and the Girl who Could Speak Bear obviously you know I love a talking bear and they're both fantastic. So we'll put all of these links in the show notes. So you got a got a full list and let us know, let us write in, let us know what your daughter likes and you can send your recommendation request to reading glasses podcastmail.com as always want to thank the wonderful mods who run our Discord server and our Facebook group. And remember folks, springtime need a new tank top or T shirt, Check out our Void Merch store. There's a link in the show notes and if you like the show and you want to rate and review us, it really helps. It's totally free, warms our hearts but it really helps the show. It's so great for us and helps us reach more listeners. You can email us at reading glasses podcast gmail.com find us on Instagram Reading Glasses Podcast thanks for listening and thanks for reading.

[Mallory O']

Thanks for reading.

[Bria Grant]

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