Ep 461 - Walking into Trees - Multitasking with Books + Mike Chen!!

Summary

Reading Glasses – Ep 461: Walking into Trees – Multitasking with Books + Mike Chen!!

Release Date: May 7, 2026
Hosts: Brea Grant & Mallory O’Meara
Special Guest: Mike Chen

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Episode Overview

This episode is all about the art and hazards of multitasking with books—whether that means listening to audiobooks while doing chores, reading while walking, or combining other life activities with reading. Brea and Mallory share their own trials and tribulations with multitasking and test out a walking pad for reading and audiobooking on the move. Later in the episode, they’re joined by sci-fi author and Reading Glasses favorite Mike Chen, who discusses his new space opera, The Photonic Effect, and the joys (and pains) of world-building from scratch.

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What They’re Reading (00:35–05:29)

Brea Grant

• Current Read: The Internet Con: And How Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About It by Cory Doctorow
• Summary: Nonfiction take on the “enshittening” (systems and tech getting steadily worse for users), why it happens, and what (if anything) we can do.
• Memorable Quote:
  “If you want to be mad, this is a great book. It also helps you understand where you are.” — Brea Grant (01:35)

Mallory O’Meara

• Current Read: Agnes Obert’s Mystical Cat Shelter by Heather Fawcett
• Summary: Historical fantasy (1920s Montreal) about a woman with a cat shelter, magic on the margins, mysterious landlords, and plenty of memorable cats.
• Cat Cameo: Her cat, Sailor, returned the e-book to the library by accident!
• Memorable Quote:
  "The protagonist has a special jacket with pockets sewn in to carry kittens around." — Mallory O'Meara (05:08)

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Listener Feedback & Tips (05:39–09:49)

Abigail — Novellas & Magazines

• Tip: Subscribe to short fiction magazines (e.g., Asimov’s) for a steady stream of novellas and short stories.

Paulina — DNF & Book Tracking

• Tip: Uses Storygraph’s “Up Next” rather than “Currently Reading” to avoid psychological pressure and book guilt. DNF (Did Not Finish) books get logged with a “stopped date.”

Hope — Wheelhouse

• Interests: Sci-fi, fungi, queer fiction, ocean monsters, space operas, and monster smut.
• Hosts Note: Mike Chen’s new book is recommended!

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Maximum Fun Drive Update (09:49–15:14)

• Big Success: All goals met, including stretch goals ( anticipated books episodes, recommendation parties, bonus episodes).
• Quote:
  “The response really blew us away. So many of you showed up. Thank you, thank you, thank you.” — Mallory O'Meara (31:40)

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Main Topic: Multitasking While Reading (16:33–32:48)

Childhood Habits (16:33–17:55)

• Mallory: Used to walk and read as a kid—ran into trees and poles!
• Brea: Too dangerous, couldn't task-switch quickly enough.

Audiobooks as Multitasking Salvation (18:15–21:15)

• Brea: Loves audiobooks for cleaning, laundry, dishes, driving, and walking/hiking. Cooking not as much—needs focus.
• Mallory: Audiobooks for walks, chores, and folding laundry, but prefers music in the car.

Audiobooks as Companions (21:15–22:31)

• Mallory: Wonders if people just lay and listen to audiobooks.
• Brea: Sometimes lies down to listen, but often needs to do something with her hands.

Hobbies & Crafting While Listening (22:31–24:28)

• Both: Wish they did more crafty hobbies that pair well with audiobooks (e.g., crochet, painting miniatures), but don’t have time or inclination.

Multitasking with Print/Ebooks (24:28–29:12)

• Brea: Not really possible; multitasking “in that way doesn’t exist.”
• Mallory: Does read ebooks on the walking pad and while eating meals. Sometimes reads between sets while weightlifting.

Philosophy on Productivity and Reading (29:13–32:25)

• Both: Caution against cramming reading in just to be productive; it should be about enjoyment and relaxation, not always advancing a goal.
• Mallory:
  “My book is shielding me from the anxieties of life.” (31:04)
• Brea:
  “Just read your book and have a good day.” (29:46)

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Interview: Mike Chen on The Photonic Effect (36:06–56:34)

What Mike is Reading (36:48–39:24)

• We Could Be: Bowie and His Heroes by Tom Hagler (oral history of Bowie)
• The Third Period Comeback by E.K. Johnston (middle grade hockey + family curse + PWHL aspirations)
  • Quote:
    “It’s a middle grade book about a tween girl hockey player in Ontario trying to undo the family curse that has caused the Toronto Maple Leafs to not win the Stanley Cup for decades.” — Mike Chen (37:56)

About The Photonic Effect (40:28–41:59)

• Mike’s most sci-fi, space-operatic work yet: Starship captain and crew return from survival ordeal to find their government at war, pressured to weaponize new technology. Espionage, romance, and moral dilemmas abound.
• Feels: Star Trek: Voyager + DS9 + Mass Effect

The Trials of World-Building (41:59–43:46)

• Terrifying and difficult: “You have to come up with the government, the spaceships, the mechanisms for communication and star travel, weapons, factions, aliens…” — Mike (42:24)
• Commissioned concept art to help keep starship logistics straight

Human Relationships Amid Sci-Fi (44:36–46:17)

• Mike: Always prioritizes emotional drama and relationships over spectacle; for him, everything must be rooted in character.

Musical Easter Eggs (46:19–50:38)

• Discussion of Rilo Kiley cameo/reference in the novel—chosen because, by the 22nd/23rd century, musical references shouldn’t always be 19th-century stuff!
• Mike’s daughter is now a Rilo Kiley fan: “She very proudly tells me about all the times she yelled ‘fuck’ along with Jenny Lewis.” (50:27)

Writing Multiple POVs (50:53–53:42)

• Voices differentiate halfway through draft, then refined in revisions; sometimes “dreamcasts” actors to help inhabit characters. Tanav = Jacob Anderson.

Sci-Fi Wheelhouse (53:56–55:00)

• Mike: “Feelings in Space.” Needs strong emotions, tech or space, and not as much magic.

Book Tour & Events (55:36–56:21)

• Mike details some events (San Mateo, Napa) and encourages listeners to follow on social for more.

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Book Tech: The Walking Pad Test (56:45–65:02)

Mallory and Bria hands-on test a walking pad treadmill to see if it’s good for reading or listening to audiobooks while walking.

The Walking Pad (El Slux model)

• Mallory: Uses it to get in steps while listening to audiobooks or reading ebooks (projected to TV). It’s compact, affordable, and convenient for LA’s “extreme weather” (heat).
  • “If I don’t push myself to go for a walk, I will maybe get 800 steps a day. That is so wild.” — Mallory (63:54)
• Brea: Finds it more suited to audiobooks/TV/phone calls than print reading; prefers relaxing while reading.

Pros & Cons

• Easy to store, setup, and use
• Would like a handrail for stability
• Great for people in urban or hot climates who want indoor cardio without tedium

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “I was reading about dwarves. So sexy.” — Mallory O’Meara (18:06)
• "We just want to thank you...for helping keep Reading Glasses going for another year!" — Mallory (31:40)
• "You deserve to just sit and read for a little bit. You work hard, man." — Mallory (31:56)
• "Go to space or travel through time, but talk about your feelings." — Mike Chen (55:04)
• Craisins vs. Raisins Sidebar: Extended tangent on the differences; Anthony hates raisins, loves Craisins.
  "That is such a wild take to me." — Mallory (26:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• What Are You Reading: 00:35–05:29
• Listener Feedback: 05:39–09:49
• MaxFun Drive Update: 09:49–15:14
• Main Topic: Multitasking: 16:33–32:48
• Interview: Mike Chen: 36:06–56:34
• Book Tech: Walking Pad: 56:45–65:02

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Final Thoughts

This episode balances playful banter (cat crime! raisin debates!) with thoughtful discussion about balancing reading with other life activities. Mallory and Brea advocate for reading as joy and relaxation, cautioning against letting productivity culture taint your bookish pursuits. Mike Chen’s interview is a delightful dive into the craft of sci-fi, emotional storytelling, and the power of music references in worldbuilding.

This is an especially fun and relatable episode for anyone trying to squeeze more reading into a busy (or distracted) life, and a must-listen for genre fans and aspiring multitaskers!

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Transcript

[Mike Chen]

Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're listening to Reading Glasses, a show about book culture and literary life designed to help you read better. I'm author and book devourer, Mallory o'.

[Bria Grant]

Meara. And I'm Bria Grant, filmmaker and e reader. This episode, we're talking about reading while doing other activities. Is it a good idea? Is it bad idea? Does multitasking exist? We'll examine. Plus we test out the popular walking pad. I'm here at Mallory's to give you a live test, let you know how it goes. And we interview Glasser favorite, Mike Chen.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Very exciting. But first, Bria, what are you reading?

[Bria Grant]

I am listening to a book that came out a year or two ago, maybe just last year. It is in why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and what to Do about it by Cory Doctorow. You know, I love Cory Dr. I know you do. I read his science fiction books, but this one, not science fiction.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I wish it was, but it's not.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, we're living through the great in Shittening. Basically, it's like, here's all the things that we rely on and we need and here's why we've made them bad and how we've made them bad. We start with going like, you know, what's good is like Kindles, wow, they can provide such great opportunities for us to read and anyone can read. But here's how they got gradually worse to the point where now they're not useful to us anymore and they are shitty. And so how we get there and he. He takes everything, he goes like iPhones, he goes, Amazon. Like all these things that we. At first we're like, oh, isn't it great? Isn't it great that we have Twitter and we can talk to each other and like, how the great and shitty fighting happened. It is. It will make you really mad.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm already really mad.

[Bria Grant]

Basically, it's like, here's the policy choices that they go. We don't care about our users. We don't care about the people involved. We don't care about what. We just start to care about money. And so we're going to make it shitty for you. If you want to be mad, this is a great book. It also kind of helps you understand where you are.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, I think it might be good for me to read because I think a lot of us are having that feeling of like, everything is really feels really bad right now and everything. Nothing works anymore and you don't really know why.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't work anymore. And it. And it's it is kind of on purpose because they've chosen that like their loyalty to you doesn't matter. And they're. It's like you are just a number and a product and something to give these companies money. And you know, this is part of living in capitalist society. But. And there's also nightmare you can do about it apparently. I haven't gotten to that part of the book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Does it involve walking into the sea?

[Bria Grant]

I don't hope not. Apparently the sea has been in shittified. I'm just kidding.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Imagine you walk into the sea and it's like you cannot under sea until you have joined.

[Bria Grant]

What are you reading?

[Mallory O'Meara]

You must watch this 30 second ad before you put toes into water. I am reading a really highly anticipated book. But first I have to put my cat on blast about it. Oh. So I am reading Agnes Obert's Mystical Cat Shelter by Heather Fawett. Very buzzy new book by a big glasser, favorite author. And I gotten it from the library and I was really enjoying myself while I was reading it on my Kobo. And a couple nights ago I put my Kobo on my nightstand after I was finished reading and went went to fall into a slumber. And I woke up and one of my cats, I don't know which one, had stepped on it in the middle of the night, turned it on and somehow returned the book to the library.

[Bria Grant]

Which cat do you think it was?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Probably Sailor. Because when they they're trying to wake me up in the morning, Lula sits on my head and pokes me in the face. Sailor stomps around the room and screams. So I'm assuming it's Sailor loves to do crime.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, he's cute. He's having a little bath right now. He's so cute.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's the problem. He's so cute I can't get mad on him even though he's a library criminal. But this book is amazing. The glassers are going to love it. So it take this is historical fantasy. Very much in the same vein as Emily Wild's books about this woman. She lives in the in Montreal in the 1920s. It's winter time and she runs a cat shelter and she is a normal human woman with no magic. But in this world, magic exists. But the magicians and people who are into magic, it's kind of illegal. Like it's very highly regulated. It's only like 1% of the population has magical powers. It's very unstable. People look down on magicians and people who use magic and it's like, really no one trusts them because of a magical accident that happen on. On her street. She needs to find a new place for her cat shelter, and no one will rent to her because she doesn't have a lot of money. And no one wants to rent to a business that is going to have 20 cats in it.

[Bria Grant]

Right? Sure.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Until she. One day, she finds a really great deal for a really great place, a really great storefront. There's tons of. It's in a great neighborhood, tons of room. And she immediately is like, what's the catch? And she can't figure. She's like, it smells really nice in here. But the guy said that there used to be a baker, the man who is, like, renting it to them. He's very nice, but she can kind of tell that there's something he's not saying. She starts to figure, I'm only like 10% of the way in. But she starts to figure out that she thinks that maybe there was something magical in this. This space and that's why no one wants it and why it was so cheap and he was so desperate to get her in. And all I know is that there's some. Some sort of magical thing happens and she needs to team up with this magician, the one who ruined her last place, who, like, got into this magical accident to save this cat shelter. And if you're a cat person, you have to read this book. She has a special jacket, and Agnes, the main character, has a special jacket with pockets sewn in it to carry kittens around.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, my God. So cute.

[Mallory O'Meara]

The cats are obviously characters you already fall in love with, like some of the. The cats that, like, live in the shelter. It's so great. I love it. And I got. I love it so much that after probably Sailor returned it to the library, I drove on down to Romans today and bought a hard copy of it. So I'm reading Agnes Obert's Mystical Cat Shelter by Heather Fawcett.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm reading in why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and what to Do about it by Cory Doctorow. So foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So we want to take a moment to share some listener feedback. Abigail wrote in to say hello. I'm listening to the question about finding novellas. I know I'm late and you already followed up on this, but maybe this suggestion will be interesting enough on its own. I think this person would really enjoy subscribing to a short fiction magazine. I got a subscription to Asimov's Science Fiction magazine this year, and it's awesome. Each one has a novella and a whole bunch of novelettes and short stories. Who doesn't want to just have great short stories delivered to your house every two months?

[Bria Grant]

That's nice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You can support the writing industry and protect the spaces that allow allow authors to start their careers and also feel like a cool person who reads magazines. I'm sure there are other magazines for different genres. I've seen ads for fantasy, horror and mystery ones though I can only vouch for Asimovs. That is a hot ass book tip.

[Bria Grant]

That is such a good book tip. And I love the idea of just a little short fiction magazine. That sounds so nice. You get delivered to your house. That sounds incredible.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I love this.

[Bria Grant]

Paulina wrote in and said hey Bria and Mallory, I want to write in about the glassier who has completionist tendencies and who has to mark books as read when they are dnf.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is the anonymous glasser who lied

[Bria Grant]

about lies about the books that they've read. Okay, I am one of those readers who actively tries to not set goals for myself because if I have a goal, I will stress myself out to make sure I hit that goal. I use storygraph because I love having a list of books I've read, but I actively try not to track anything except for the title author. This small tweak on how I track books I'm reading has made a huge difference for me. I never mark books as currently reading. This puts too much pressure on myself to finish a book. So instead I put books I start reading into story graphs. Up next section. This lets you pick up to five books from your TBR that you're interested in reading soon. I didn't know about this. This allows me to start a book without any pressure. If I'm not enjoying a book, I have a rule where I put it down and give it three days. If I haven't thought about that book in three days or wondered what's going to happen next, it gets dumped. I mark it as a D, as a DNF and add a stopped date. If I like to book and finish it, I can mark it as read and set the finish date to the current day. This way it's only tracking end dates. The DNF shelf, like your red shelf, will sort by the latest stopped finish date, so it's easy for me to scroll through and see what books I started and never finished. If I start a book and it doesn't write for me, I can just remove it from up next and it'll stay in my TBR for later. I don't know why there's a psychological difference between currently reading and up next. But for me there totally is. I'm truly absolved in my book guilt. Thank you so much for all you do.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

Mallory, is there a difference for you between currently reading and up to next?

[Mallory O'Meara]

For sure. I like. I. I think you definitely. Because there's something about market like you are committing to reading it that it's harder in your brain to be like, oh, I'm. I'm going back on this. So. I didn't even know storygraph had this option.

[Bria Grant]

I didn't either.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm into this.

[Bria Grant]

That's very cool.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, cool. And then Hope wrote in with a wheelhouse which is science fiction and horror featuring fungi, ecology and other weird or spooky biology, furious queer fiction, the ocean and the wild things that live down there. The deeper the better, really. Chunky space operas and science fiction series with extensive relations relationships. Well, they're gonna love Mike Chen's new space opera. They really are multi generational space voyages or bio ships and of course monster smut. What is our bios? Is that like that the six tumor ship? The sixth Nick?

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a ship that has. That is like living parts to it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, fascinating.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Do you think we're a bioship for like parasites, something in your body? Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

And fleas?

[Mallory O'Meara]

We're not, please. I hope not. Yeah, I pay a lot of money for Frontline.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it's expensive.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's so expensive. And then so expensive to squeeze a little liquid on the back of your cat's neck and make them. Make them so angry at you for the rest of the day.

[Bria Grant]

Best. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So you can email us at reading glasses podcast gmail.com if you want a list of all the books we talk about on the show delivered to your inbox every month. You can sign up for our newsletter. There's a link in the show notes, quick bookmark. We want to thank you for the Maximum Fun Drive. We're recording this while the Maximum Fun Drive is still happening. So we're just going to assume that you were all amazing because you're always all amazing. And we want to thank all the people. We want to thank our existing members who have been with us for a long time and that boosted and upgraded. And we want to thank the folks that finally took the leap and signed up to become new members. You can still get a lot of the stuff. If you missed it, you can sign up to Support [e-mail] that's how you get the ad free episodes and the Discord access. A lot of the stuff during the drive you won't get, but you still get. You can. You can still look it in there. Yeah, get that boco.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But we want to thank everyone. We work really hard every year. We hope you had fun during some of the events that we did. The live streams. We finally did a Chuck Tingle livestream. You can watch that on our Instagram. Yeah, pretty wild. But we just want to thank you. We know that, you know, everything's expensive. We're all paying for a lot of things. So we really appreciate the folks that took the time to join and carve a little $5, $10, however much a month out of their. Out of their budget to help us make the show. And now what you've all been waiting for. The post drive numbers update. Did we hit our goals? Yes. Holy glassers, we love you so much. We hit every single one of them, including all the stretch goals. So the first goal was at 100 new members because we had two tiers of goals for tiers of new members and then overall, which was new and upgrading and boosting. So for the new members goals, yes, we hit 100 new members. So we went through our TBRS live. You can go on our Instagram right now and watch that video. It's very fun. 200 new members recommendation parties. Yes, we're going to do those. It's going to be a blast. We have not scheduled it yet, the first one yet, but stay tuned, it is on the way. And the big one was 300 new members. We know that this is the. This was the one everyone was gunning for. We didn't hit it until the very last day of the drive, but we did it. The anticipated books episodes are coming back thanks to over 300 of you who signed up to support us. Brand new members. We cannot thank you enough. We're really excited. So the next one is going to be May and June. It is going to be a little bit delayed because we did not hit it till the last day of the drive. We weren't totally sure we were going to. So it'll be probably another couple of weeks before the May and June one comes out. But again, thank you so much. We, we really appreciate the folks who decided it was time to become official Glassers. And then we had two overall goals. Our first one was 600. Worth me watching a musical that the Glassers vote on. Yes, we hit that. Stay tuned for instructions on. On voting for that. That will be happening. Soon. And then the big one that we were really excited about, we weren't sure we were going to hit and 800 new, upgrading and boosting members. And for that we were going to start doing members only monthly bonus recommendations episodes. So that means our wonderful glassers who are members get to cut the recommendation request queue because currently the document is 293 pages long. And so we're going to start doing monthly bonus recommendations episodes where members can submit their their request. And we do episodes where we recommend a bunch of books to you. So we're really excited for that. It's going to be really good time. And so that will start next month. Folks, we just can't thank you enough. The response really blew us away. A lot of this stuff happened at the last minute. So we were worried for a couple of weeks and then the last day, so many of you showed up. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It means the world to us. And thank you for helping keep reading glasses going for another year. And stay tuned for the recommendation parties, voting on the musical and instructions for members on how to submit their special VIP book recommendation requests. So thank you, thank you, thank you. We adore you. So before we talk about multitasking while reading, we're going to take a quick break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by zoc. Do folks raise your hand? Not if you're driving, not if you're driving, not if you're doing anything important. But if you have your hands free, raise your hand if you've been putting off some kind of appointment. Maybe it's a dental cleaning, maybe it's a checkup. Maybe it's an eye doctor appointment. Yeah, that's all of us. We let maintenance stuff go way too long. And then when something really actually feels off, we you might look it up on the Internet, which is a terrible idea because then you think you have some sort of weird disease from a bug that's only at the Amazon. You think you possibly might be a zombie. Maybe you're haunted by a ghost.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You start to panic and think something's really wrong. Is this you? Yeah. Maybe you should do things a little bit differently. Maybe you should try out ZocDoc.

[Bria Grant]

Zoc Doc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love, whether that's dermatology, dentistry, primary care, eye care, any of the 200 plus specialties offered on Zocdoc. You can easily search by specialty or symptom to build the care team that is right for you. And. And then when you're ready, you get to see their real time availabilities and click to book instantly. There's no phone tag. There is no waiting around. So nice. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Booking doctor's appointments. We all know it's so like archaic.

[Bria Grant]

It is.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It really feels like. Feels like this is how you would make dental appointments in the. In the dark ages.

[Bria Grant]

It is. It is. Absolutely. I am going to a new primary care physician next week. I've been talking about it. I finally booked it and it made it easy for me to just. Zocchtech made it easy. It made it easy for me to go and go online to figure out who had availabilities.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You didn't have to get a fax machine. No.

[Bria Grant]

And I could just go and figure it out. It was so easy. And it made it so that I'm not putting off that appointment anymore.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Cuz you got to go to the doctor.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You do.

[Bria Grant]

It's still. It's the one thing you got to do.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You really.

[Bria Grant]

I mean, there's other things you got to do.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You should drink water, get some sleep.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But also go to the doctor.

[Bria Grant]

Go to the doctor.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Go to the doctor. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com glasses to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Zocdoc.com Glasses Zocdoc.com Glasses Thanks Octoc, for sponsoring this message. Classes.

[Mike Chen]

Say, what's the trivia show where dreams come true.

[Bria Grant]

It's gotta be go fact yourself.

[Mike Chen]

Legend in the house.

[Bria Grant]

We quiz celebrity contestants about topics they love, then bring out surprise experts to delight and amaze.

[Mike Chen]

And then finally tell us why you know and love the lyrics to the song Knockin Boots by Candyman.

[Bria Grant]

Joining us tonight is a rapper and producer.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's Candyman.

[Mike Chen]

Hello, Candyman. This is among the greatest moments of my life. This is one of mine too. I love it.

[Bria Grant]

That's go fact yourself twice a month, every month here on Maximum Fun.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This week we're talking about multitasking, reading while doing other activities. Is this a great idea for your busy life or is it too much to bother with? Maybe a fast track to walking directly into a tree? We are getting into it. Bria, were you a kid that walked around school while reading a book?

[Bria Grant]

No.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Really?

[Bria Grant]

So dangerous. Even then I would have thought it was dangerous.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, not in school. There's gonna be an open. It's not like a cartoon. You're gonna walk into an open manhole and fall into the sewer.

[Bria Grant]

Also, I just don't know if I can. I can't task switch that quick. Even then, even. Even as a young Bria, I couldn't do it. What about you? Were you. Yeah, I could.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Walking around.

[Bria Grant]

You were walking right into poles.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Truly, I read well, I did anything. Like, I have definitely walked into quite a few stationary objects. Poles, trees. I don't do it anymore because I don't want to break my ankle.

[Bria Grant]

So that's how you get, like, hit by a car.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Like, you're walking, you're thinking about something else, and you just walk out in the street. Like, I don't even like being on

[Mallory O'Meara]

my phone while I'm walking around.

[Bria Grant]

No, you shouldn't be. One time I was on my phone because I do look at my phone in the morning while I'm walking the dog. And my neighbor, who doesn't live there anymore, but he's like, elderly man came out and he's like, you need to not do that while you need to pay attention when you're walking. And I was like, you're correct. Actually, you are right. I shouldn't be on my phone while I'm walking.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, it makes me nervous. But yeah, I used to. I used to be a big. I would just read while I would do anything. I remember one time I got in trouble in school because, like, you know, in. I don't even know if people have desks anymore. But, like, you know those desk with like the little cubby inside?

[Bria Grant]

Oh, yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I would have an open book and I would just pull it out.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, you know what? I did do some of that. I did sneak. Sneak stuff into that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Always reading.

[Bria Grant]

But I was more writing notes, writing boys. Writing notes to boys.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I was reading about dwarves. So sexy.

[Bria Grant]

Did different childhoods.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So obviously audiobooks are a game changer for multitasking. I like. And I. I will say I do when I do go on my. I love my audiobook walks. But. So what do you usually do while listening to audiobooks?

[Bria Grant]

Cleaning. Laundry. Those are the big ones. Dishes. Sometimes cooking. For some reason, I'm cooking. I don't love having an audiobook because

[Mallory O'Meara]

you have to focus.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, I got to focus on the cooking. And then mostly really is driving. Driving. Because I drive not a ton, but like, you know, Today I drove 15 minutes to go to a meeting. And like, I can put on an audiobook on the way there. And if I drive back home, that's 30 minutes into your audiobook. I mean, so I do that a few times a Day. You know, I don't drive that much, but that and then walking and hiking. I love, like, a long walk. Like, there's a walk I do through my neighborhood that takes about an hour. And, like, I can, like, listen to an audiobook and listen to it the whole way. And, like, you know, occasionally I'll stop and, like, text someone or, like, make a call or whatever.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I, like, pull off to the side of the road. Like, when. If I need to text, I'm like, oh, I got to step into a bush so nothing happens to me.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, like, pull up on the side of the road with your feet. Yeah. With your.

[Mike Chen]

With your car.

[Bria Grant]

With your feet. Yeah, yeah. You get a little. You stop, you do a little text.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

You continue the audiobook on the. On. On the road of feet, which is a sidewalk.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Road of feet.

[Bria Grant]

That's a sidewalk.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That sounds like a new book. The Road of feet and audiobooks.

[Bria Grant]

What about. What are you doing? Are you doing. Are you doing driving?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, I will. I did one. I. I do. I did mine today. If I'm really into an audiobook, I will. But I like to listen to really loud music when I. I drive.

[Mike Chen]

Ooh.

[Bria Grant]

Like, I love a. I love head banging.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Well, kind of. My love. I'm a car singer.

[Bria Grant]

Love.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because I love. Love car singing. I just love. There's something about just listening to the music when you're in the car because you can really crank it.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Even though, like, I don't. I don't live in an apartment building. We're. We're recording for the first time ever in this house, and I don't. I don't share any walls with anybody. But even then, like, I don't want to blast my music. Car is the only time I'm blasting.

[Bria Grant]

If I'm blasting music at home, it's usually just in my earpods, which is so weird.

[Mallory O'Meara]

See, I don't listen to. I don't have headphones in it when I'm at home.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't know why.

[Bria Grant]

I like walking around with my headphones in and, like, listening to my podcast and my book stuff. So if I'm listening to an audiobook, it's on headphones. It's not just, like, playing out loud.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't know why. I think maybe. I don't know, maybe because my son, Sailor, loves to commit crimes, and I need to be aware and attentive at all times. But I don't like listening to my. I don't like having my headphones on, so. Car. My Car time is my really loud music time. I'm an audiobook walker. I do like an audiobook laundry folder or like dusting, doing the dishes, meal prepping. If I'm like, if I'm done with the cooking stage, I'm just like putting it into boxes, you know?

[Bria Grant]

Should I be dusting more than I am?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, yeah, I am.

[Bria Grant]

Should be dusty more than I am. Have you been to my house and you think she should be dusting?

[Mallory O'Meara]

But I never thought about it being dusty. But you have one more cat than I do.

[Bria Grant]

And we have a lot of. It's like we have a lot of windows and so a lot of dust comes through the windows.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. I have two cats and I have a air. Like I have air purifier going most of the time. The amount of dust that accumulates.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh my God.

[Bria Grant]

So you're dusting all the time with like a feather duster. What are you doing?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Usually just a paper towel with like some cleaning solution on it.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But I also have a lot of art.

[Bria Grant]

So not dusting like a.

[Mallory O'Meara]

No, not like a French maid.

[Bria Grant]

You can't see my. Okay. Yeah, that's what I was asking. Okay. That's what I was picturing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

No, but I'm like wiping off because I have a lot of art up on the wall. So I'm wiping the. The frames.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, because if you're dusting like a French maid, the dust is just going on the floor, right?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Then you vacuum.

[Bria Grant]

Then you vacuum. Yeah, I am vacuuming.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes, but I am. Yes. I. Sailor is looking directly at me.

[Bria Grant]

This.

[Mallory O'Meara]

My son sheds. So I think my cats shed more than your cats.

[Bria Grant]

Weirdly, we have long haired cats and they don't shed that much. One of them does.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Sailor sheds like you wouldn't believe. I have seen him like silhouetted against the light, like scratching himself and just watching fur just. Wow, Sailor, there's something both. I have two tabs. I have two domestic short hairs, tabbies. But Bria can attest there's something about Sailor's fur that's different than most tabby cats.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I thought he was going to be a long haired cat when he was a kitten. And he just has a really rich undercoat that is now all over my house.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Thick, Thick fur.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Thick fur. So, yeah, I like to dust, like to. I, I have to be doing something though. I wonder, are there people who listen to audiobooks and just sit, maybe lay.

[Bria Grant]

Maybe they're laying, you know, like relaxing and just listening to an audiobook. I can see that I do, too. I do, too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You need to be doing something with my hands. So a listener wrot in recently about doing multiple hobbies at a time, and I thought it would be really fun to talk about crafting or, like, doing some sort of hobby thing with your hands while listening to an audiobook. Do you ever do that?

[Bria Grant]

You know, I used to, because I was. Remember when I was really into miniatures for a brief minute during the pandemic. But I don't do. I don't have. I don't have that much time for that kind of stuff anymore. I think things have gotten busy again post pandemic, and I wish they'd get busier. Yeah, well. But I guess hiking is a hobby I have, and I do do, like. So I do a lot of audiobooks on hikes. But you're not kind of doing what?

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're not crafting?

[Bria Grant]

No, not crafting. And also, I end up on hikes with, like, other people, and then I don't do the audiobooks. But, no, I'm not doing much crafting generally. What about you?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I wish. No, I truly, like, at least once a month, I have a thought where I'm like, I really want to listen to my audiobook right now, but I have nothing to do. I wish I could, like. I wish I was crocheting. Like, the closest I get is, like, sewing patches onto things.

[Bria Grant]

What about, like, you seem like a person who'd be into, like, painting, like, miniatures for, like, some sort of, like, tabletop game.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, my God. It's so funny you say that, because my. My ex, who I dated for a very long time, author Jeremy Lambert, friend of the show. Jeremy is a Warhammer guy.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I had, very briefly, a night haunt army that Jeremy bought for me, and I was painting it for a little bit. It's just like, I can't. I just was not a Warhammer person, and I tried. And Jeremy is a big. Jeremy loves to listen to an audiobook while painting Warhammer figurines. And he would laugh if he heard this episode because he really wanted me to be that kind of person. And I just. I'm not a. I'm not an art person.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Not artsy, craftsy. I've truly, seriously contemplated learning how to crochet or needlepoint or embroider things specifically, just for. For listening to audiobooks, because right now, it's just walks and chores. So. Do you ever multitask while reading print or ebooks?

[Bria Grant]

I don't think that's possible. Also, I think multitasking in that Way, like, doesn't exist. Totally. You know, I think it's. I think it's hard. I do know. Okay, there'. There's a couple things I do while I'm reading them that I'm like, this is something I would be doing otherwise. So, for example, I'll do, like, a face mask while I'm reading, you know? Or like, sometimes if I'm, like, baking something, I'll put it in the oven. I have, like, 20 minutes. I'll go read a book. Okay. You know, I think, like, yeah, I have a friend, we have a mutual friend who does treadmill. Oh, wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

He has started a trend with all the other boys at the gym, though it's mostly him.

[Bria Grant]

But I did see someone else doing it, which is so weird. But he is on the treadmill reading a print book. A print book?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. He's doing what I used to do at school in a safe way.

[Bria Grant]

I know, but I am. It is so shocking to me. First of all, like, I just can't this. It's moving too much. I wouldn't be able to do it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

See, I'll rest his elbows on.

[Bria Grant]

No, he's holding it up in the air like this. I'll send you a photo.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That is wild.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it's really wild.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Can I tell you, this is very good friend of the show. We both spend a lot of time with this person. He was over here last night. You can hear him laughing at me in our live stream that we did for our smup. Tbrs. This. Our friend Anthony doesn't like raisins, but he loves Craisins. And I was like, that is the most bonkers take. And I was like, why? They're the same thing. He's like, they're not.

[Bria Grant]

Well, they're not.

[Mallory O'Meara]

They're not. But, like, they're similar enough that, like, it's. He hates raisins, but.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Oh, interesting. I could see it because, like, raisin crazy also likes grapes sour. Well, raisins and grapes are so different.

[Mallory O'Meara]

No. Well, they're the same thing.

[Bria Grant]

They're the same thing, but the taste is different.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I know, but it was. I was like, so you like grapes and you like Craisins, but you hate raisins? Yeah, that is such a wild take to me.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Well, also, Craisins are kind of gross

[Mallory O'Meara]

hot takes, I think.

[Bria Grant]

Craisins.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I love that you come for. Come to Reading Glasses for. For information on your bookish life. Stay for the hot takes on fruit consumption.

[Bria Grant]

Dried fruits.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, we've been talking about fruit a lot Lately. But we were watching the playoff game last last night and we were eating, eating grapes and watermelon and I forget how raisins. We were talking about. Oh, we were talking about our favorite fiber dense cereal. This is how you could tell that we are getting older. Sitting, eating fruit and talking about your favorite fiber dense cereal. And I was like, oh, I've been eating a lot of Raisin Bran. He's like, I hate raisins. Raisins. But I love a Craisin. And I was like, that's.

[Bria Grant]

That's wild. I love raisin brand though. It's so good.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So good.

[Bria Grant]

I know. I've always loved it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, so you don't do anything. So baking is the only thing you do with. With other forms.

[Bria Grant]

Mask. I'll do a face mask.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Self care baking. I think those are activities.

[Bria Grant]

I think that kind of activities. But it's like I'm not gonna like be like reading a book and then also talking on the phone or something. Like, how can you do that?

[Mallory O'Meara]

You know, talking on the phone is not a hobby unless you're from the South.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. It is a hobby for me. Okay. I'm not gonna be reading a book and. Well, how would you even do it? Like what, what do you do? You do it. What, what are the. What are you proposing here?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I sometimes read ebooks on my walking pad, which we're going to talk about in this episode's book tech section. I do like to eat. Like I most. Most of my meals I eat while

[Bria Grant]

reading is not a hobby.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, neither is talking on the phone.

[Bria Grant]

Talking on the phone is one of my hobbies. I actually stand by.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, but you're from Texas.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, I love talking on the phone. That's. Call me any day. I will love when people call me the phone. I'm like, I talked on the phone the whole drive to your house. Today I talked on the phone with one of my friends. We just. Just a gab just to like see what's.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's why this works is that we're a couple of yappers.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. And then we kept. We talked about how much we hate working at night. Like we like we. I spent 20 minutes. I was like, ah, can you imagine working at night? And we were just discussing that if no one wants to talk to me about this basic stuff, I don't care about them.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Have you. These are the only things I want

[Bria Grant]

to talk about is the most basic mundane.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Have you ever seen that comedian Leanne Morgan?

[Bria Grant]

Oh, yes, you would love her because

[Mallory O'Meara]

she has a Whole segment about how her husband has retired and now he's spending a lot of time with her, and she hates it because he's not fun, because he's not good to talk to. And she's like, I just want to talk something to death.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, I do know what you're talking about. Yeah. She's like a tall lady. Yeah, she is funny. I do, too. I want to talk her to death, too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

She's like, I just want to talk something to death.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, me too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Okay, so I will do a face mask in the tub while reading. I will eat while reading. I think if you were walking on a track, if I knew there was no upcoming trees, I would like that. And I have everyone's. If I'm really into an ebook and I'm doing really heavy sets at powerlifting that I need, like, two or three minutes in between. I'll read for those two minutes. Okay.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. Interesting.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's how I read most of Yellowface. Like that.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, wow. Okay. Interesting.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So when I think about Yellowface, I also think of, like, squatting.

[Bria Grant]

Weird. That is weird. That's a weird association.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So is this good? Is multitasking while reading good for your reading life, or is it a sign that we're all dying from productivity culture?

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah. It's the latter, I think. I worry it is, like, should we just, like, give ourselves time to read? Like, I. I know. It's like the carrot makes you do the thing and the stick. What is it, you know, where you associate. There's a word for this where you associate one. Like, you're like, I don't like doing this thing, but if I get to eat cake while I'm doing it, I will do. I don't like going to the gym, but if I get to watch my favorite TV show while I'm there, then I will go. There's a word for this. And I positive, I'm not looking this up, but this is something. And I feel like there is that with reading, but also, like, you should just be allowed to read and have a good time and, like, just relax.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Because if I'm like, okay, I'll read this book, but I have to walk on the treadmill. Like, fuck that. Like, just read your book and, like, have a good day.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Like, maybe, like, I was talking to someone the other day about how. How When. When I meet someone, they can really, like, rest, I'm like, I have a lot of respect for that. Someone who can, like, really take a break. Because I do have trouble taking a break. Sometimes. And like, just taking a break is great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, it's so great.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Do you.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What do you think? Well, I'm gonna really blow your mind because I remember, God, this was years ago because my two favorite non work activities are reading and lifting weights. And my therapist, my beloved, very longtime therapist was like, Mallory, you love hobbies where you make progress.

[Bria Grant]

Oh.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And I was like, wow, just hit me with your fucking car next time.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because the thing for me, I. I don't ever see it as adding productivity to another activity. It doesn't feel like I'm getting something done. It makes me feel like, whoo. I'm avoiding thinking, like, oh. Instead of being stuck with my horrible, anxious thoughts during a walk, I'm listening to an audiobook. So I think it can be great for your reading life if you're enjoying the activity. But if you are seeing it as like, I need to get some reading done, I need to progress in this. I need to inject this. I need to be double productive, I think that might be a problem instead

[Bria Grant]

of just like, rewarding yourself. Because, like, I'm walking on the treadmill, so I get to read my book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. Because for me, my book is shielding me from the anxieties of life. I think if you're doing a bunch of stuff at once and you're. You are also adding an audiobook or adding reading in there to, like, get some stuff in, but you're not really enjoying it, maybe relocate reading to another part of your day. Maybe make feature reading somewhere else. Because you're not going to get as much out of it as you want. It's not helping you relax. You're probably not focusing on it. Like, I just feel like I see so many things that are, like, if you run while you do your skincare and not like you're. We're all. We're all doing so many things at once.

[Bria Grant]

You'll have time. You'll have time to do it if you just add these three things to do at the same time. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't like stuff like that, and I don't want reading to become that. That's the thing I think I'm trying to get it is like, I don't want reading to become this thing that you fit into other activities. Like you said, you deserve to just like, like, sit and read for a little bit. You work hard, man.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Like, yeah, just relax. I think it's how you like. Again, for me, I'm not looking at it as productivity. I'm looking at it as like, it's either this or my brain's gonna be like, let's think about every thought you've ever had. Let's think about every outfit that you need to wear for the next week. Let's think about. Let's schedule every single thing down. It's either that or I'm listening to someone tell me about sea monsters.

[Bria Grant]

Sure. Yeah. Which sounds great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, love that.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So I think it all comes down to how you are looking at it and how it makes the reading feel.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But I'd love to see. I'm. I already know that we are going to get some absolutely wild emails from folks that are like, I read while deep sea diving.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. Give us your weirdest places. You're. You're multitasking.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. I can't wait to hear this. So send your thoughts to reading glasses podcast gmail.com before we talk to Reading Glasses hall of famer Mike Chen about his new space opera. Super exciting. We're gonna take a quick break.

[Mike Chen]

Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Glasses. And sponsored in part this week by Green Chef.

[Bria Grant]

Do you love real food? Do you love recipes that make healthy eating easy? Hey, Green Chef is a great place for you to start. There's no fads. There's no trends. It's just healthy stuff. And it's gonna help make all of your habits last.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. So with Green Chef, every single week, you get over 40 recipes made with organic produce, responsibly sourced proteins, and nothing you can't pronounce. That is a lot of recip single day.

[Bria Grant]

So many recipes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't even know. I don't even know if I know how to make 40 things.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. That's a lot of meals.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You get the recipes to pick from. You pick what matters to you. It doesn't matter what kind of weird diet you have. Bri and I both have very particular diets. Whether you are going high protein, you are trying to do gut and brain health, you're trying to go Mediterranean, you want to do plant based, you want to do gluten free. Green Chef has got you covered. And what's really cool is now if you want some help figuring out your food plans, you want some guidance beyond the plate, they include free, unlimited 101 nutrition coaching. That alone is worth it.

[Bria Grant]

That is.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That is.

[Bria Grant]

That is very cool.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's so awesome because I don't know what anything about food. It's a magical, mystical thing to me.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. And someone could help you out with that. And here's the thing. I like cooking, but I also, I don't love going to the grocery store. I don't love figuring out what I'm gonna cook.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You, me and you should get married. Because I love going to the grocery store.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, I hate going to the grocery store.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And then I bring it all home and I want to get takeout.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, that's me always. But I don't want to go to the grocery store. I always want to take it. But I love cooking. So there's food in the house. I am so excited to cook it. And Green Chef makes it really easy to just have something ready to go and you don't have to think about it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So head to greenchef.com 50glasses and use code 50glasses to get 50 off your first month, then 20 off for two months. That's code [e-mail] 50glasses glasses, glasses.

[Maximum Fun Announcer]

Thank you to all the Max Fund members who supported us during Max Fund Drive. You're helping us as we try to put more good into the world. And as part of putting more good into the world, we've opened our annual post Drive charity sale. Max Fund members, at $10 per month or more can purchase Max Fund Drive keychains featuring designs for shows across the network. And all members can buy our charity exclusive keychain starring Mikey, our little microphone buddy from this year's Max Fund Drive. This year, we've decided to send the proceeds of the charity sale to the center for Constitutional Rights. They're dedicated to the creative use of law as a positive force for social change, tackling issues like human rights abuses, racial injustice and sexual and gender based violence. These folks are fighting to make things better. So to get your keychains and support the center for Constitutional rights, head to maximumfund.org and if you're not yet a member, you can still get in on this. To support the show you're listening to and get access to bonus content and the charity sale, just click the link in the show notes. The sale is live now and it ends on Friday, May 15th. That's MaximumFun.org charitysale and thanks again.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So here we are with good friend of the show at this point. He's basically the third co host of Reading Glasses. We are so, so happy to have him back for. I don't even know how many times that you've been on the show at this point. We've got author Mike Chen. Mike, how are you?

[Bria Grant]

Hello.

[Mike Chen]

I brought my dog today. You can probably hear him.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, that's not Mike making those Noises.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah, I'm not going back if you did that. That is Jake the dog. And so for anyone who has watched Adventure Time, I was going to say

[Mallory O'Meara]

definitely going to be Adventure Time.

[Mike Chen]

Star Trek, Deep Space Nine or Red Moon Knight, that is. All of those are. Jake.

[Bria Grant]

Very cute. Very cute dog. We can attest the dog is the real star of this moment. The dog is so cute.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, we're very excited to talk about your new book, but before we get into it, you have to tell us what you're reading because you told me that what you're reading has to do with the pwhl and I. That's all I want to hear about right now.

[Mike Chen]

Okay, so I'm reading two things in parallel. So I will do a very quick first one. That is not that book, but I am reading an oral history of David Bowie's life and career that's really, really good called We Could Be Bowie and His Heroes by Tom Hagler. And so what he did was he took snippets of interviews from so many people and other musicians, celebrities that collaborated with Bowie, cultural people, and they just broke it up into the different moments of Bowie's life and career. And it makes me so. I mean, David Bowie is the only celebrity where I cried when he died. And he means a lot to me. And so it's joyful and insightful and just so sad every time I read a story on it. Even when it's a story where Bowie's being a dick to someone, it's still

[Mallory O'Meara]

like, but he's so great.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah, I know. But the other book, that is a peak Mallory book and it comes out, I believe, on May 6th. It's an arc of the third period comeback by E.K. johnston. It's a middle grade book about a tween girl hockey player in Ontario trying to undo the family curse that has caused the Toronto Maple Leafs to not win the Stanley cup up for decades. And she has a lifelong dream of going of playing in the pwhl, but because of this family curse, when she hits puberty, every team in the family fails. And so she has to give up her dream of not ever playing in the PWHL unless she can break this curse. So there's trying to.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh my God, what is this?

[Mike Chen]

Necromancy.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm getting this from the library right now.

[Bria Grant]

Wow. This is written for Mallory?

[Mike Chen]

Yeah. It is based on Bill Barilco, who scored the last cup winning goal as defenseman for the Maple Leafs and then died in a mysterious plane crash. So it doesn't explicitly call him out. The person is named something different, but it talks about the Maple Leafs and the defenseman who died and all this stuff. And so in the story, it's like, this girl is the great, great granddaughter of that player.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, my God. All right, I have literally got it. The library will be notifying me as soon as it comes in.

[Mike Chen]

It's like, yes. So there is many discussions of wanting to make the PWHL, but not being able to because she has hit puberty and her family curse is about to kick in, and she's.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Are we sure this isn't a real nonfiction book about the Leafs? Because this does kind of sound like what's going on up there.

[Bria Grant]

Whoa. Hockey. Dense.

[Mike Chen]

Yes. Yeah. They did not do well this season.

[Mallory O'Meara]

No. Well, they got rid of Marner. We don't have to. We don't have to get into that, but. Oh, okay. That's exciting. And what a. That's a really good book combo, actually.

[Bria Grant]

So, Mike, you've been on the show so many times. You're our number one most repeatable guest. You've been back so many times.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're like a. Like a reoccurring character series.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Chen]

I get my name lifted to the reading glass banner or like, up into the rafters.

[Bria Grant]

You're like, what's the glasses with Mike

[Mallory O'Meara]

Chen, who was the neighbor in Home Improvement? That was.

[Mike Chen]

You're kind of like the guest star.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, you're kind of like. You're a reoccurring character.

[Bria Grant]

But you have a new book out. Can you tell us about your new book?

[Mike Chen]

So my new book is called the Photonic Effect, and it is the, I guess, the most science fiction that I have gone to. It's actually. It's with the science fiction imprint this time instead of, like, the literary fiction that I used to be with. So it is a space opera. It is very much inspired. Like, the pitch that I used when talking to my editor about it was, it's Star Trek Voyager mixed with Star Deep Space Nine mixed with Mass Effect. And if you like any of those things, as early readers have told me, they're very excited about that. It's about a starship captain and her crew who were stranded in this weird gravitational well for, like, 10 years. And then as it starts to collapse, they find a way out through the help of the. The photonic aliens. So, like, they exist as beings of light. They don't exist physically. They. They escaped and they returned to find that their government is in the middle of a civil war, and they're being asked to participate in it and use their technology that they needed to escape this disaster to be weaponized and turned into war. And the captain and the crew aren't quite sure how they feel about that. And so there is espionage, there's science, there's faded romance, there's a little bit of everything. And it was very difficult to world build all of that for myself. But yeah, and that should be out by the time this episode comes out.

[Bria Grant]

Amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's our next question is that this seems to be the most world building you've ever had to do because even in like extremely difficult, like in your Star wars book, like you're playing in a sandbox that you know that you're, you didn't have to build the entire sandbox yourself. This is, you are, you're building the sandbox. You are creating the sand piece by piece. What, what was that like for you as an author who has worked in the sci fi space for a long time but never like this type of sci fi?

[Mike Chen]

It was terrifying and difficult. It is like I used to joke that like I would never try to write my own space opera because it seemed so overwhelming to do that. And then the way that I got this book was that my, the, the editor at Saga, Nivea Evans, she asked me, she's like, hey, would you like to try writing your own version of Star Trek? And I was like, well, yeah, that sounds like a great idea, but that means I'd have to create everything. She's like, I think you can do it. I'm like, okay, I appreciate your face. And then they handed me some paperwork. Yeah. And I signed it. But yo, it's like you have to come up with the government, the spaceships, the mechanisms for communication and star travel, weapons, factions, aliens. In order to get myself into this, I hired a concept artist. And so she sent drawings of like the starship horizon and deck by deck layouts of it. Because I was having people like run from deck to deck and I was like, I don't quite see where they're going. And then when I got the concept art, that really, really helped. But it's like, I don't know if I can do this again, man. Like if someone else wants me to write something in space, it's got to be a spin off of this or

[Mallory O'Meara]

I was going to say you could write a sequel. Now you've already done it, now you can just build on this one.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah, doing it from scratch. Like, I don't know how people do this, like for epic fantasy or that's

[Mallory O'Meara]

how I feel when I cook, by the way. I'm like, oh, that's me too. I'll never be allowed to get that.

[Mike Chen]

In Star Trek they have replicators to just replicate food from energy matter. And my wife is like, I could never do that. It's not going to be good. I'm like, it's probably going to be like 90% good. And you don't have to do any effort or have any skill. So give me that.

[Bria Grant]

Well, in addition to all that world building, you still have this human element that we love in all of your books. And it really comes through, which is great. People should read the book. It's fantastic. What makes you lean in that direction? How do you maintain that when you're doing this, like, quite difficult world building, science fiction world?

[Mike Chen]

I think that that's, that's the thing that always captures me about like anything that I read or watch or play. It's funny because I was thinking about video games and how I can't play a game without a story anymore. The gameplay could be mediocre, but if I am emotionally engaged with the characters, then I will play it all the way through. And it's different how? When I was in my teens and twenties, I would play hours and hours of the NHL games to just play 82 game seasons over and over and over. And now I'm like, there's no emotional narrative. I can't do that anymore. But I haven't seen heated rivalry yet. Well, maybe there is, but yeah, so it's focusing. Everything comes from the relationships first. And so when I was outlining this, I knew that the big issues were going to be that the captain and the crew were going to be asked to participate in this war that they didn't believe in. That the captain was going to have a romance with this non corporeal being and losing that person or being is what drives her. And there's going to be different factions involved in this war on both sides who all have their own agendas. And the mix of the friction of all of that coming together, that's where I find like the real drama and like, ultimately like the rest of it is just kind of like window dressing. It's my preferred kind of window dressing. But like, for me, everything's based on the relationships.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, that really comes through.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So Bria's got a pretty important question here, maybe the most important.

[Bria Grant]

I do have an important question, which is the. Which is that you reference a band that I love. Riley, you always. Okay, you always have A lot of good music references. And I know you have a background doing music stuff, but why that reference? What. Talk about your love for Rilo Kiley.

[Mike Chen]

So one of the reasons why, like, where this came up was, like, in Star Trek, they're always referencing, like, public domain works, like classical music and, like, Gilbert and Sullivan and stuff like that. Like, you know, there's a plot point where, like, Data has to sing this Gilbert and Sullivan song in Star Trek Insurrection. And I'm like, okay, they're doing. The reason why they always reference that stuff is because it's free, you know? And so I'm like. But, like, if years and years and years into the future, like, they wouldn't always be talking about Gilbert and Sullivan, you know? And so I wanted some of the characters in this to really have, like, carry the love of music that. That I do. And I'm like, as a. As a fan of music, one of the things that I find really interesting now is that if you look at, like, if you listen to how music is produced, there's a point in, like, the mid early 90s where it's like, production quality is all the same. Like, you can usually tell when something's made in, like, the 80s or the 70s. Like, the 70s are much thinner. Like the 60s, it's like, you know, it's like, very raw. But, like, by the time you get to the early 90s and you start, like, the advent of digital recording, like, everything kind of sounds like the same quality, and it comes down to, like, the writers and the performance and, like, the effects and the styles and stuff like that. So I feel like, you know, like, punk rock from 100 years from now is going to still feel like the Pixies or the Ramones or something like that. And so you're just open to, like, if you connect with that kind of music like I do, then you're going to have, like, this infinite library of it, and you're going to have some artists that always connect to. And so I knew I wanted some of the characters to really love music and kind of have something connected to that and be their point of connection to each other. And so when I was writing this, I was listening to a lot of Rilo Kiley at the time, because my daughter. I have been indoctrinating my daughter into indie rock, which is the whole point

[Mallory O'Meara]

of having a child really doing the voicemail.

[Mike Chen]

It really is. And so she was 10 at the time, and anytime that she glommed onto a song or an artist, we would just play it A lot. And every time, she got to a point where she just loved every Rilo Kiley song that I was playing. So I'm like, okay, we're just gonna go through their entire catalog. And she likes Rilo Kiley more than she likes Jenny Lewis solo stuff. It's stylistically a little bit different, but so we were listening to it a lot, and I was like, I need a band to put in here, and I don't want it to be, like, too mainstream but not too obscure. And then I was listening to There's a song called A Better Son Daughter off the Execution of all things. And I was like, this really fits. And I'm just like, fuck it. I'm just gonna do it. I'm just. Put it in here.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I love it.

[Mike Chen]

So, incidentally, people. I think I've talked about this before on the show. People have joked about how my writing can have prophetic powers because I wrote a pandemic book before the pandemic happened.

[Bria Grant]

Yes.

[Mike Chen]

I wrote the Rilo Kiley stuff and included a line about their reunion tour. And then a month later, they announced their reunion show.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You haven't written the Sharks getting a Stanley cup yet, which is very.

[Mike Chen]

You know, I almost did in the beginning. At the end, when they're looking at, like, newspapers caught in, like, the old vending machines that have just been there for years. One of them was originally going to be the San Jose Mercury News saying, sharks celebrate Stanley Cup. And I was like, self serving. I can't do that. I should have done it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You should have done it.

[Mike Chen]

But, yeah, so I got to take my daughter to her first concert, which was Rilo Kiley. And she very proudly tells me about all the times she yelled fuck along with Jenny Lewis. And I'm like, that's my kid.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Your daughter's great.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah, Very cool. She's a bit of an asshole right now. She's almost 12. She's all.

[Bria Grant]

She's a lot.

[Mike Chen]

But she has good taste in music.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's what matters. Really?

[Mike Chen]

Yes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So, Mike, you're writing these multiple characters. This book is multiple pov. How do you get in that headspace of being multiple? How do you be multiple people?

[Mike Chen]

It's difficult at first, actually. So first drafts, they all sound like the same person. And that's kind of like, God, I'm trying to remember, what have I told your glassers before? Because I think I. Yeah, that's true. We're all in hell anyway.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's really true.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah. So I write in layers and, like, my first Draft is like pretty much like dialogue and stage direction. If you're listening to the audio only version of this right now, my dog is licking my face. I'm trying.

[Bria Grant]

Licking all over his face. Just so important part of the writing process.

[Mike Chen]

Truly, he's a good boy. He's in my office. Okay, that's enough, bud. So they need.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Sorry, this is bonus ASMR for our listeners.

[Mike Chen]

So at the start, like, they don't really have a voice. They have kind of like a general direction of where the characters are going. And so the second draft is where they really start to find a voice. And sometimes when I'm writing, I'll notice a certain pattern in dialogue, like, oh, this person just naturally wound up asking a lot of questions, or this person talks in more short sentences. And it's something that just kind of naturally went in there. And I will make a note of that. And in my massive revision checklist, I will go back and add those types of things into their vocal cadence. And so that's really where getting distinct point of views comes in. And then what also helps is around midway through the first draft, when I finally get a sense of who these characters are, I will cast like Dreamcast actors into them. And so, like in this case, like the character of Tanav, who is the musician from another universe, he is Jacob Anderson from Interview with the Vampire in Game of Thrones. And so I thought of him specifically from his amazing performance as Louis in Interview with the Vampire. He's so good.

[Bria Grant]

He's so good.

[Mike Chen]

And he's British, but he's got a fake southern accent in there. And so I tried to pull that in because you hear his accent slip from time to time in Interview with the Vampire. And so I like that little mix of there's just a little bit of British in there mixed with his Southern. And so I'm like, okay, well, that's from another universe. I'm just putting that in there. So having when I can dream cast an actor who feels appropriate, then I can start to see their facial expressions and hear their voice. And so it all kind of comes together.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Beautiful.

[Bria Grant]

Love that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So, Mike, you've been on the show more than anybody else. We've asked your wheelhouse multiple times, but we're curious, as a big sci fi writer and a big sci fi reader, what is your sci fi wheelhouse specifically? Like, what?

[Mike Chen]

Feelings.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Dealings.

[Mike Chen]

It's got to have feelings. Well, so I'll say this. I think, I think I've talked about on the show about how like my wife and I are both like super nerds, but she goes into like fantasy space, which I don't really like. Swords and dragons and stuff like, does not really work for me. So in terms of the sci fi and fantasy genre wheelhouse, there's got to be space or technology or time travel or something. I just cannot get into magic stuff, which is ironic because my next release is for the Critical Role anthology, which is obviously pure fantasy. But I find that if it's got really strong character work, which Critical Role does, then I can get into it temporarily, but then I retreat back into space. So Space.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Feelings in Space by Mike Chad. Feelings in Space. Honestly, it's really your brand.

[Mike Chen]

I write what I want to read. Yeah, that's basically it.

[Bria Grant]

I love it.

[Mike Chen]

Go to space or travel through time, but talk about your feelings.

[Mallory O'Meara]

We're going to make you a banner for when you do cons that just says Mike Chen, Feelings in space. But that's why we love your ghosts.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah, the ghosts are coming up with. And they're going to talk about their feelings too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Genre, but feeling. Mike, this is amazing. Tell us about, tell us where people can buy the book because this is going to come out right when it comes out. Are you touring? Are you doing any fun events that our listeners might want to come find you at?

[Mike Chen]

I will be with Andrea Stewart at San Mateo Public Library in I think May 9, and then I believe it's May 17. Saturday after that, I will be at Napa County Library's Comic Con. I will be where I have met a repeat glasser. I think I've sent you pictures of that.

[Bria Grant]

Maybe some glasser's love.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Mike.

[Maximum Fun Announcer]

Tons.

[Mike Chen]

Yeah. And so she's shown up at some of my events before. So shout out to you if you have mastered time travel and gone back to the books. And we've just completed all the narrative circles here.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Beautiful.

[Mike Chen]

So those are the events that I'm going to be doing. And I might be doing stuff in August, but that's not yet.

[Mallory O'Meara]

All right, we'll put your website and Instagram in the show notes especially so people can look at your Instagram and look at Jake the dog.

[Mike Chen]

Yes, Jake the dog.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Mike, thank you so much for joining us. As always, you're the best.

[Mike Chen]

Thank you for having me. I hope to be back several more times in the next few months.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Our annual Mike appearance.

[Mike Chen]

Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

For some book tech advances in bookish technology. In the spirit of this week's episode, we're finally testing out the popular walking pad. You can get them at most big stores. Walmart, Target, Amazon Etc for around a hundred bucks. I think I got this one on sale. Mine is the El Slux walking pad. I got it for about, like, 80 bucks about four years ago. This one's just the pat. Some of them have handrails. This one is just the pad. It does not have a handrail. This one goes up to. I think it's like 3.5 or 3.8 miles an hour. Bria finally got to walk on it.

[Bria Grant]

I was gonna walk on it while we do this.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Here, there's the. If you look on top of the bewitching, that is where the remote is.

[Bria Grant]

Where?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Directly in front of you. Bottom shelf all the way to the right.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bria is going to podcast and walk at the same time.

[Bria Grant]

Talk about multitasking. Okay, I turned it on. What do I do?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Press play.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, here we go. We press play. I'm on the else luck. It's going 0.6. I'm gonna move it up.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bria is walking and casting the old walking cast. Yeah. What's funny is there is a podcast on Maximum Fun called Walking About.

[Bria Grant]

I love. I. I know. I love that podcast.

[Mallory O'Meara]

All right, Bria, what do you think? Because I showed you. Because sometimes I will throw my book to the tv.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, that was interesting. I can't really talk to you. I'm facing away from Mallory, which feels a little strange.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bria's looking at one of my. One of my ambiance channels, which is a. A, A nice mountain river.

[Bria Grant]

I, I. I like the idea of this. I could see why you like it. I. When you put the thing on the tv, it was like, okay, I could do this. I probably wouldn't, though.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Like, it's better with an audiobook, I think.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, audiobook. I could do. What I would really love to do with this is just talk on the phone. Really. I just want to talk about. Or watch tv. I could watch tv. But, like, this. This feels to me like a bit like it would be hard for me to. I have trouble, like, when I'm walking, like, stuff is bouncing too much. I can't see.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What, your eyeballs tight?

[Bria Grant]

Maybe. So I think I would just. I would have trouble reading something, and it wouldn't feel very relaxing. But this is nice. I think this thing is pretty great. I was telling me how many calories I'm burning. It's giving me my speed.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, yeah, we should say that. So the one on the L Sluck has. It tells you it. It cycles between your speed, how many calories you burned.

[Bria Grant]

Time.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Time. And how many. How far? The distance that you've gone.

[Bria Grant]

I'm at 0.03 right now.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

And I have burned three whole calories.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

Wow. Someone hand me a crazin. I. It. It. This. I do find you. You mentioned that you wanted the handrails. Maybe, but I don't find it to be super. I mean, I was walking really slow. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But we. Because I. I'm do. I'm at like 3 or 3.5.

[Bria Grant]

Wait, that is fast.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm power. I'm speed walking with the book. Well, yeah, normally with all. I think an audiobook is best, though.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, an audiobook would be best, but I don't know. I just. I associate book reading with relaxing, and so I don't want to do stuff like that. But as a walking pad, five out of five pages. Pretty great. I like it a lot. I actually like. I'm. I'm about to get rid of my peloton and I'm like, this could be something nice. I could just have at my house. That gives me steps for when it's raining, I guess.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Or I just won't take steps that day, I guess. I don't know. You own this?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I do.

[Bria Grant]

So what do you give it?

[Mallory O'Meara]

So I like this thing.

[Bria Grant]

Would you buy this?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I think I just got it on Amazon.

[Bria Grant]

When?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Four years ago.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because I got it when I lived in Idlewild, which is up. I lived in this little tiny mountain town for three years, and there's no sidewalks, there's no street lights. So it's not a great place for walking around the neighborhood. And if I wanted to get steps in, and I work from home, I was like, well, just get this walking pad. I like this thing. And I kept it because my neighborhood here, now the area that I'm in, in la, redacted, also doesn't really have sidewalks. And in la, it can get really hot if you want to go for a walk during the day. The thing is that I like about this is I can go for a walk anytime. Like, sometimes, you know, it gets late at night, I'm like, oh, I kind of want to go for a walk, but I'm gonna get murdered.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because I'm a woman walking alone, so usually I will roll it out. I don't leave it down on the floor all the time. It. You can stand it up and I stick it kind of like behind my fridge.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it is. It's not. It's very not. It's. It's a low profile.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Unobtrusive I set it up in front of my TV and I listen to an audiobook with a nature video on. Or sometimes I will pair my phone screen to the TV and read and read an ebook with huge font. And I keep the sweatshirt in my pocket like a little remote and then just like cycle through the pages like that. It's. I think it is worth buying if you are trying to get steps in and you live in a place with a lot of extreme weather like we have in la, or it's. You only have time to walk when it's dark.

[Bria Grant]

We do not have extreme weather. Weather in la.

[Mallory O'Meara]

We do actually.

[Bria Grant]

We have extreme weather.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So they just. Some magazine just released like a map of like the least, like the. The areas of the country with the most uncomfortable days a year. And it's like us in Nevada and Arizona because it's the heat. Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, okay. I. When you say extreme weather, I think of like snow and rain and we

[Mallory O'Meara]

don't have those, but we have. We have hot days.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, we do have some hot day.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So it's not great to walk in.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, fair.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So again, I wish it had a handrail, but because for me, Cardi, I have a really hard time with cardio because it's so boring to me.

[Bria Grant]

It's so boring.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But if I'm doing it, that's what I. This is what I. I'm connecting this back to our main segment where, like, it doesn't feel like I'm getting something done if I'm listening to an audiobook. It feels like the audiobook is saving me from the boredom of doing cardio.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, okay. I like that. That's good. That's a good way to look at it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So I will. Because I don't watch a ton of tv. Although you really. The classes will be really proud of me because I'm going to start watching the other Bennett sister.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's like a.

[Bria Grant]

What is that?

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's like a book that takes place in the.

[Bria Grant]

It's a book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It was. It got adapted to a show.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I got hooked because they. They released a video that came up on our reading smut Instagram of like, a scene where a woman loses her mind over a veiny forearm. And I was like, I gotta read this. Yeah, It's a Regency love story. Yeah. It's an adaptation of the novel of a novel of the same name by Janice Hadlow. And it's a Regency drama based on Pride and Prejudice. It follows the other Bennett sister. That is not. Whatever I've Never read.

[Bria Grant]

I've read it, and I don't know. I can't remember.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But people will be very proud of me because I am famously not into Jane Austen stuff.

[Bria Grant]

But you're gonna watch this. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

The veiny forum scene really got me.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Looks really cute.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But I might watch that while. While using this. But, yeah, I. I give this a. I would give it a five out of five. It had a handrail. I wish I had a handrail. So I am very clumsy, and. But it's easy to set up. It's not super expensive for what it is because treadmills cost, like, $800.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. No, this is like. I mean, it seems just as good as a. I mean, you can't run on it, I guess.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. But I am not a big runner. I'm a dwarven warrior.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Good.

[Bria Grant]

Over running's hard on your knees. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And again, I don't do a lot of intense cardio because I'm a powerlifter. Like, I just want to get steps in because I work from home and I'm not. I. I am sitting all day.

[Bria Grant]

It's funny.

[Mallory O'Meara]

My boyfriend is an English teacher, and he's like, wow, God. Got over 20, 000 steps today.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm like, cheers.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm like, I. If I am not trying, if I am just staying in the house, even if I go to the gym, I am lucky If I hit 2, 000 steps. Wow. Lucky.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. Wow. That isn't very many. I know.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because I don't go anywhere.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, you don't go anywhere.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I try.

[Bria Grant]

I mean, I have a dog. When you have a dog, you just automatically.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't. I don't have a dog any. He has a dog, too.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So I. I don't have a dog. I. If I don't push myself to go for a walk, I will maybe get 800 steps a day. That is so wild. I know. But I don't. Like, I live in a very small house.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't have a dog to walk.

[Bria Grant]

Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

If I, like, my car is parked very close to my house, I'll go to the gym, do an intense workout in a small area for two hours.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And then come home.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So, yeah. My boyfriend's an English teacher, and I'm like, you're walking, like, a zillion miles a day. Like.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's amazing to me. So I like getting this, I think, is if you were also like me. I think this has been. It's been really great. It's super easy. I'm giving it four out of five pages. I should just give it a five out of five. But I just wish I had a handrail because I trip a lot. If you look at Instagram reels and also want to be an audiobook walk girly. But you. You two live in a neighborhood that is hot and has no sidewalks. I would get one of these.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's good. It's. It's, it feels like it could be something that's like kind of flimsy and it's not flimsy at all.

[Mallory O'Meara]

No, it's great.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Sometimes it took a little while for my cats to not be afraid of it, but now they're fine with it. So you can send your book tech ideas to reading glasses podcast gmail.com as always, want to thank the wonderful mods who run our Discord server and our Facebook group. Remember, you can buy reading glasses totes and shirts and stickers over at our Void Merch store. There's a link in the show notes and if you like the show, please rate and review us on the podcast listening app of your choice. It's so great for the show. It's so great for our hearts. You can email us at reading glasses podcast gmail.com find us on Instagram at Reading Glasses Podcast. Thanks for listening and thanks for reading. Maximum Fun. A worker owned network of artist owned shows supported directly by you.