Ep 467 - Nosy and Creepy - Best and Worst POVs

Summary

Podcast Summary: Reading Glasses Ep 467 – "Nosy and Creepy – Best and Worst POVs"

Date: June 18, 2026
Hosts: Brea Grant & Mallory O’Meara
Theme: Exploring the strengths, weaknesses, and quirks of different literary Points of View (POVs), plus a test run of the hot new book tech, Reciprocard.

---

Main Theme Overview

This episode is devoted to an in-depth discussion about narrative Points of View (POV) in fiction: which ones work, which ones annoy, and how they affect the reading experience. Brea and Mallory rank the most common (and uncommon!) POVs, share personal hot takes, and give listener-friendly context on why certain books excel—or flounder—based on POV. The episode also features a hands-on review of Reciprocard, an innovative website for finding library card access, and closes with a conversation about how much downtime the hosts take between finishing one book and starting another.

---

Current Reads & POV Impact (00:38–04:53)

Brea’s Pick

• Westward Women by Alice Martin
  • Recently started, highly anticipated since the “anticipated books” episode.
  • Central premise: Mysterious compulsion causes young American women to walk westward, often to their deaths. Possible fungal connection.
  • Notable for switching POVs, including a striking opening in second person.
  • Quote: “It starts with one of the most poignant chapters ... first one is a second person POV ... broke my heart within the first, like, two pages ... It's a tough read, but it ... broke my heart in a way that I was like, I love this book.” (01:23)

Mallory’s Pick

• Dead Weight by Hilder Knutsdottir (trans. Mary Robinette Kowal)
  • Mallory praises the book’s “lean, mean horror machine” style, especially the use of first person for maximum tension and horror.
  • The protagonist is an isolated, lonely woman in Iceland who, after reluctantly hosting a pregnant cat and fielding visits from its mysterious owner, uncovers disturbing truths.
  • Quote: “There’s chapters in this book that are just a single sentence and you’re like, oh my god.” (02:49)
  • Assurance for animal-lovers: “Nothing bad happens to the cats.” (04:33)

---

Listener Feedback: Library Access & Reciprocard (05:00–11:21)

• Sarah’s Tip: Multiple library cards can be used in the Libby app, with holds being placed at the library where the wait is shortest—a useful hack for avid readers.
  • Quote: “When you have multiple library cards on Libby and place a hold, it will automatically put it for the library who has it available soonest.” (05:56)
• Creator Spotlight: Tim, creator of Reciprocard, writes in to share his personal journey in building the website from scratch.
  • Quote: “I just love to read... The same topic kept coming up over and over so I just went for it.” (06:58)
  • Hosts dub Tim a “national treasure.”
• Wheelhouses: Lisa and others share their favorite book themes—scientists, queer romance, Jewish themes, and grief memoirs.
• Mallory Reflects: Talks about grief in literature, referencing the importance of books on losing a best friend.

---

Main Discussion: The Great POV Ranking Debate (12:27–27:11)

1. First Person (“I …”) (12:56)

• Pros:
  • Bria: Likes being in “an occasional character’s head,” particularly when characters are funny and clever.
  • Mallory: Prefers it in horror for the immediacy and “unreliable narrator” vibes.
• Cons:
  • Mallory: “If it’s an annoying person, you don’t want to be in their head… The stakes are higher.” (13:57)

2. Second Person (“You …”) (14:54)

• Reaction:
  • Bria: Finds it “creepy, but not in a bad way...like you don't know me!”
  • Mallory: Agrees, noting it’s especially “surreal and weird” in fiction, great for horror or fever-dreams.
  • Quote, Bria: “It is a way where I immediately feel connected to the material. Like, it works on me...I don’t know if I can read a whole book like this, though.” (15:13)

3. Third Person (Limited & Omniscient, “He/She/They …”) (16:57)

• Limited: Bria leans toward limited for the tighter character focus.
• Omniscient: Mallory’s favorite, because “I want to know what happened. That’s how you hook me.” (17:54)
  • Loves books with big mysteries and lots of backstory; Bria prefers character deep-dives.
  • Notable quote: “There’s literally—there’s never been a ‘too much information’ for me.” (18:32)

4. Fourth Person / Collective (‘We’ POV) (20:25)

• Rare, cited in books like Unlikely Animals or Lincoln in the Bardo.
• Bria’s analogy: “Fourth person is the pink lemonade marmalade” of POVs, fun for a sprinkle but too weird for the whole jar. (21:07)

5. Multiple POVs (22:23)

• Mallory: Loves when different perspectives “hook” her into inhaling fast-paced plots, especially with well-balanced character casts in thrillers or genre fiction.
  • Caution: “All the POVs have to be good. Nothing is worse than like, you’re like, ‘oh, I don’t give a shit about this character.’” (24:00)
• Bria: More POV-agnostic, provided it “flows.”
  • Acknowledges some readers have strong preferences that may be part of their “wheelhouse.”

Takeaways & POV in Book Selection

• Mallory: Actively checks POV before reading; “If I pick up a book and it’s first person, I’m immediately like, this better be good.” (25:52)
• Bria: “Pretty POV agnostic... Just not something I think about much.”
• Both encourage listeners to reflect on which POVs work best for them.

---

Book Tech Review: Reciprocard (27:56–32:05)

• What it is: A free website (created by listener Tim) for discovering which library cards you qualify for, including places you can get a card in person, reciprocal agreements, and non-resident cards (some for a fee).
  • Helps readers “skip the wait for popular titles, unlock more free ebooks and audiobooks on Libby.”
• User Experience: Both Brea and Mallory found the tool enlightening, especially for larger metro areas like Los Angeles where reciprocal access can be significant.
  • Quote, Brea: “Did you know I can go to the Burbank Library in person and just get another card? I didn’t know that information.” (28:55)
  • Quote, Mallory: “There hasn’t been … just one place where you could be like, this is where I live. This is the library I normally go to, what else can I get?” (29:51)
• Rating: “Five out of five pages, baby!” (29:51)
• Special Appreciation: “Tim, you rule. We salute you.” (32:05)

---

Bookish Question of the Week: How Long Before Starting a New Book? (32:05–36:59)

Listener Inara Asks: “How long do you wait to start a new book after finishing one?”

• Brea: Waits about 24 hours, often reads something short (essay/comic) before launching into a new book. Needs some processing to “think about what I have and be like, okay, what do I want to read?” (34:21)
• Mallory: Also likes to “digest” for at least 6–12 hours after finishing, especially with novels. Will do admin (logging, discussing, reading essays) before jumping into another fictional world.
  • Quote: “It’s like an assembly line going past my brain. Yeah, I definitely don’t do that anymore.” (34:45)
  • Nonfiction or different formats (e.g., audiobook vs. print) might get started sooner, but not a whole new novel right away.
• Both curious if listeners are “eating books like potato chips” or also require downtime.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I want to know what happened in that town. I want the history in every situation. I am always the librarian character giving out the backstory in that one pivotal scene.” – Mallory (19:44)
• “Fourth person is the pink lemonade marmalade.” – Bria (21:07)
• “Multiple POV is like topping me … It keeps you reading, there’s no good place to stop.” – Mallory (22:49)
• “Five out of five pages, baby, boom, boom. It’s so easy, it’s free.” – Mallory on Reciprocard (29:51)
• “Bria keeps a bar of chocolate. I keep some smut, you know.” – Mallory (36:59)

---

Key Timestamps for Segments

• 00:38 – Current Reads (Westward Women, Dead Weight)
• 05:00 – Listener Library Tips & Reciprocard background
• 12:27 – POV rankings begin
• 14:54 – Second person POV discussion
• 17:22 – Third person limited/omniscient discussion
• 20:25 – Fourth person/collective POV
• 22:23 – Multiple POVs
• 27:56 – Reciprocard Book Tech review
• 32:05 – Listener question: downtime between books

---

Listen to Full Episode Here

---

For more on wheelhouses, book tech, or bookish advice, email the hosts at [e-mail] or find them on Instagram @readingglassespodcast. Thanks for reading!

Transcript

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're listening to Reading Glasses, a show about book culture and literary life designed to help you read better. I'm author and book devourer Mallory o'. Meara.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm Bria Grant, filmmaker and e reader. This episode, we're discussing our favorite and least favorite POVs. Raking ranking. What's the best? Is it first? Is it second? Plus, we test out Reciprocard, which is cooler than it sounds. Not the coolest name, but I really love. We are obsessed with it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

And we talk about how long we wait to start a new book after finishing the last one.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But first, Bria, what are you reading?

[Bria Grant]

I started a book we talked about in our anticipated books episode. I started Westward Women by Alice Martin. Oh, I know. You started it last night. I just told you, I quit. I DNF'd a book last night, and then I was like, let me just see what this is. But basically, it's about a lot of young women in America. They kind of, like, suddenly start feeling weird, and they start walking westward, and they think it's some sort of fungal thing. Maybe they don't know. It's never fungal thing. Whatever it is that kills them, because a lot of them are diets that they accidentally, like, walk into the ocean or they walk, you know, into the street, or they walk until they, like, aren't drinking enough water and they die of, like, of thirst. And they all have this, like, kind of blank look on their face, and they don't know what's going on with these women. And it's great. You know, I love this. A big thing like that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. This is Bria Catnip.

[Bria Grant]

It starts with one of the most poignant chapters or, like, little sections. It switches POVs, so we can. We're going to talk about this in a second. But it switches POVs. And the first one is a second person POV. It's a U. Is that second person? Yeah. And it. It, like, broke my heart within the first, like, two pages and being a woman. No, check content warnings. It is about losing a pregnancy, and it. It is. It's a tough read, but it, like, broke my heart in a way that I was like, I love this book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow. It was really not what I thought was gonna come out of your mouth.

[Bria Grant]

I loved it. It was so. I think because I. I need something that really captures my attention right now. I really liked it. So, yeah, I just started this book, but I'm really excited to keep reading it and want to talk about it because of the pov. Switch today. What do you read?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I just finished Last Night in the Bathtub, a book that you and I have been really excited about. It's Dead Weight by Hilder Knutsdottir Here translated by Mary Robinette Kowal we love this author. We love this author because it's like the way that New Stadier writes is like horror boiled down into like, it's so lean, mean horror machine. Like this is. It's like a novella. But it really. I was like, oh, in the hands of another author, this would be like a full length novel. And this author like cuts down all the fat.

[Bria Grant]

It's just like.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And the way she write. She writes in a first person pov. And it's just so chilling. Like, because there's. There's chapters in this book that are just like the Night Guest, where sometimes the chapter is just a single sentence and you're like, oh my God. It Love is about this woman living in Iceland. She is. I don't know if it's a spoiler or not. So she's in a relationship that's a little unconventional and is not entirely satisfactory to her. So she's not really. She's the sort of protagonist where she's just like not happy with her life. Like, she is. She's a businesswoman. She's like hoping to get a promotion. She's kind of not super happy at work. She's not really happy. She's very lonely and which is what makes the way that her relationship is her romantic relationship not very satisfying to her and like, kind of makes her feel even more lonely. Until one day she comes home and there's a cat in her apartment. And she's like, oh, what the fuck? Takes the cat out and she keeps coming home from work and the cat's still there. And finally she's like, I need to find out. She goes online and finds that there is a lost ad for this cat. And she like texts the lady. The lady shows up as this younger woman. She shows up with like eight minutes later. And what ends up happening is the cat is pregnant and has a kitten at her house. So the woman is like, well, I don't want to move. You can't move her. You know, can you at least keep the cat for a few weeks? Because clearly she like felt safe and wanted to have her kitten here. The main character is not really excited about it, but she agrees because she feels bad. And then this woman keeps coming to visit the cat. And as she keeps coming to visit the cat, she realizes there's something wrong with this woman's life. Oh, interesting. And I'm not going to tell you too much, but I will tell you. And this is something I worried about. Nothing bad happens to the cats.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, good.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There's one moment we were like, is something bad gonna happen to the cats? And nothing bad happens to the cats.

[Bria Grant]

It's important to us.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But it is. Yeah, it's lean, mean horror machine. This is not supernatural in any way. It is very much real, realistic horror. But it's fucking great. Excellent. So I'm reading Dead Weight by Hilder Knutstottier and translated by Mary Robinette Kowal.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm reading Westward Women by Alice Martin.

[Mallory O'Meara]

We want to take a moment to share some listener feedback. Sarah wrote in to say, I was listening to your episode today where a listener's library had decreased their number of borrows and was looking for ways to access other libraries. This was the amount of sympathy that this listener evoked from our audience.

[Bria Grant]

We felt sympathy, though we were also. We felt that we. Poor person. This poor person.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This episode is for this person. But anyway, Sarah wrote in to say, I am that person with three library cards. The county I live in has two library systems, one with multiple branches, including one for my address, and a single library that allows anyone in the area to get a card. My third card came from driving past the library near work all the time. I stopped in to ask if I could get a card if I didn't live there but worked there, and they said yes. Turns out a lot of libraries allow this. Not sure if either of these apply to the listener, but figured it was worth mentioning. When you have a multiple library cards on Libby and place a hold, it will automatically put it for the library who has it available soonest. Hope this helps.

[Bria Grant]

Is that right? I didn't know that. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Sarah says from Sarah. You didn't think I would have three library cards and not be named Sarah, did you? I love it, but this is amazing. I also.

[Bria Grant]

Amazing. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I wonder if Sarah just used like the address for their work for the library. That's so great.

[Bria Grant]

Also, I did not know when you have multiple library cards on Libby, it puts you. It will put it for the library soonest. That is a great tip. That's a hot tip right there.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Hot. Oh, hold on.

[Bria Grant]

Get the. Get it. Get out that slide whistle. This is. This is gonna be some hot tips in this episode, actually, because once we start talking about reciprocard, you're gonna.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I need a bigger side whistle.

[Bria Grant]

You're going to need a bigger slide whistle.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh my God. Do they. What if they made a huge side whistle and it was like. Oh it was like sounded like a trombone. Someone please get me a gigantic side whistle.

[Bria Grant]

Tim wrote in and said hey, I created Reciprocar. Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This made me so excited.

[Bria Grant]

This is like a celebrity writing into our show.

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

Tim.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Tim the King.

[Bria Grant]

I just listened to your podcast where you mentioned it. Happy to answer any questions you have about it. Looking forward slash a little nervous to when you test it. Super quick background in case you're curious. Reciprocal Card is just a solo side project. Balancing it with a full time job, kids and life. I sort of got inspired out of nowhere. I've never built a website or done anything like this. I just love to read mostly audiobooks these days. Hanging out in the Libby app subreddit I discovered Reciprocal and non resident library card options and how it can help you get apps, access to more books and potentially shorter holds. And the same topic kept coming up over and over so I just went for it. Super Card only includes official established agreements slash non resident options offered by libraries. No skirting the rules. It's been incredibly rewarding since launching a little less than two months ago. So many wonderful Libby users and librarians helping me and giving me encouragement. It has been so much more work than I could have imagined updating and correcting user submitted agreements. But it's honestly been an amazing experience and I'm having so much fun. Tim now. Spoiler. We love it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Gem. National treasure. Tim.

[Bria Grant]

Tim. Americans. America. America's library treasure. We are so happy to talk about this. It's very cool and so cool that you made this just like on your own.

[Mallory O'Meara]

How wonderful.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Love this.

[Bria Grant]

All right, stay tuned. Tim, you can keep listening. Don't get nervous.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, don't get nervous.

[Bria Grant]

We have wonderful things to say.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Then Lisa wrote in with a wheelhouse which is cozy. Mysteries, science, non fiction, science in fiction. Not necessarily sci fi, especially fiction about scientists, especially women doing science or using science as a metaphor.

[Bria Grant]

Oh my God. So spec.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So great. Jewish themes or characters, queer characters, Grumpy sunshine, Queer romance and grief memoirs. Mallory, thank you so much for sharing about your grief journey and the books that are speaking to you through it. It's more helpful than you know, you know. It's funny. I did want to shout out. I don't think I talked about this when I. Because I. I talked about this book in our newsletter so I didn't mention this. But quick shout out to the great work by Sheldon Costa. It is a weird fiction book that I recommended a couple months ago in a newsletter and the main character is grieving the death of their best friend. And it really hit. There's a whole section where he's talking about. He's like this kind of grief nobody talks about because there's so much about the grief over your spouse or a child or a family member dying. It's always like family member or romantic partner. There's not a lot out there for your like, well, my fucking best friend died and I don't know what to do about it. And I read that and I was. Thank God I was already in the tub because I was crying because it's. It's so true. It's just like a very specific type of grief. Luckily, my novel that I have coming out next year, my first horror novel, is very much about this. But I'm glad it's helping people. It like sometimes it does feel weird because I know that some people might. It is kind of startling the way I talk about Scott's death can be. Can be weird for people because I'm so upfront about it. Like I'm. I. Scott and I used to give each other all the time and I don't see any reason to stop now that he's dead. Especially now that he's dead. He is his fault. So I'm glad that it's helping folks. You can email us at reading glasses podcast gmail.com if you want a list of all the books we talk about on the show delivered to your inbox every month, you can sign up for our newsletter. This link in the show notes and I do want to do a quick bookmark. I'm going to do two in a row this episode and next week's episode. Just remind folks we did a whole episode about sci fi recommendations for dads and husbands. I can tell it's been a while since we've done this episode because we're getting a lot of recommendation requests. Again, it's always, please give me a sci fi book for my husband and my boyfriend or my dad, the male figure in my life. We already did a whole. We've done them so much and we did a whole episode on them. I will put a link in the show notes. But if you have a dad or a husband or a boyfriend who wants to read more and is just getting into reading or you think he'll like it, we already got you covered. Put a link in the show notes to that episode. We got all your dads and husbands.

[Bria Grant]

We got them set. We're ready. We're set with them and I'll just keep shouting out. I'm just going to a lot of film festivals right now. I'm traveling to a lot of them. So I'll be in Chattanooga. If you're listening to the Sunday it comes out, I'll be there this weekend. I think we play Friday or Saturday. I will look it up, but. Or you can look it up. Chattanooga Film Fest. My movie grind will be there and I'll be there. And I met some glassers at Portland last week, Melanie. It was so nice. People came up to me and they're like, I'm a glasser. I'm here to see your movie. It was very cool. So thank you all for coming out and supporting. It was really sweet and so nice to meet you in. In person. Even though when I'm there with a movie, I'm always, like, so stressed out. I'm like, oh, what am I gonna. What? My movie plays bad. But. But thank you for coming. It like, it feels so nice to get the support from everybody.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Go watch Bria's movie. Ask her what she's reading. Tell her what you're reading. I'll calm her down. So before we talk about our favorite POVs, we're going to take a quick break.

[Ad Voice]

Ready?

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

Go.

[Ad Voice]

Knock, knock. Who's there? We got this with Mark and Hal. You knew this one. We can't put that out as an ad. We just did new episodes every week on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcast now. It's hewn and rock. Hyunan rock. Yeah. How do you hue something in rock with a chisel? There's only one hue in rock and it's Huey Lewis. And the news is we got this with Mark and Howells available Every week on MaximumFun.org I walked right into that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This week we're talking points of view and giving out all our hot takes. Which is the best pov? Which one is the worst? Does a book's POV affect whether or not we pick it up? We are going to get into it. All right, so we're just gonna. I made a list of all the different point of views and we're just gonna. We're gonna go through and rank them. So first one, very popular one. This is the first person. So in first person, the narrator tells the story from their own perspective. They're using I. Bria, are you pro first? Are you neutral?

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, I love it. I love it. What you're gonna find in some neutral about all these. Yeah, I do love an Eye. I like an eye. I mean, it's interesting because a memoir is always gonna be an eye, but I guess we're talking mostly fiction here.

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

But, yeah, I. I like an eye. I like an eyebook. I mean, I don't read that many of them. I feel like I. Because of the kind of books I read, it's generally less of a. An eye. But I. I like to get into an occasional character's head and, like, it's. It's. I. I enjoy it.

[Ad Voice]

Are you not.

[Bria Grant]

You don't like. You don't like first persons?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't really know.

[Bria Grant]

I didn't know that about you.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What's funny is that it depends on the. I like. This is mostly for fiction. Again, I love a memoir, but I will take an eye in horror. Like the book I just. I talked about at the top of this episode. I do like an iron horn, because I do feel like it makes it scarier because you're in that character's head, and you are only able to see what they're seeing.

[Bria Grant]

So that's also like a. Yeah. And it's a good way to create unreliable narrator and create things that you're not. You don't know. It's. It's a mystery for the main character. So it's a mystery for you, too. Yeah, that's interesting.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But normally, no, I, like. I think first person is really tough because you got to nail that character. Because if it's an annoying person, you don't want to be in their head. And that's true. That's the swing you're taking. Because if it's a character.

[Bria Grant]

But if they're funny, I do want to be in their head. So, like, that's the thing. I love a funny main character who's, like, clever and makes jokes to themselves.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I just feel like I. I can get down with a first person, and it's just. It has to be. The stakes, I think, are higher, because if you're not. If you don't like someone's voice, you're. I don't want to be in that. I don't want to be in their head. Let me out. Let me out of here. All right, what about second person? So the second person is when the narrator is addressing you directly, which is funny because I'm. This week, hopefully, I'm handing in my. The second book that I've written this year, which is part memoir, part nonfiction, like sociology, cultural stuff. And part of it is in second person. I am addressing the person reading it, but. Yeah. How do you feel about it in fiction, though?

[Bria Grant]

I. I think it's creepy, but, like, not in a bad way. Not in a bad way, but I'm, like, so many assumptions about me. Like, you don't know me. I mean, you've never met me

[Ad Voice]

here.

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

I don't know.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Okay, that's my purse.

[Bria Grant]

I can't believe you would assume that about me. Okay, so the book I'm reading right now, it starts with this thing. Like I said. It's a very poignant beginning about, like, it's. It's like you are. You are sleeping alone in a bed. You are. You are wondering where your partner is. Like, it's like, this whole, like, kind of thing about, like, how she's going. You. Me, going through this grief moment, and it is a little creepy. It's creepy. It's like, you don't know me. But it is a way where I immediately feel connected to the material. Like, it works on me. Like, the you works on me. I don't know if I can read a whole book like this, though. Like, and I don't know if I have. I mean, I must have, because just given the amount of books I've read. But, like, it's not. There's not one I can clearly think of. I would have to, like, do some research. Like, it feels like. It feels to me like a. It's like a fever dream if there's.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It feels almost very surreal.

[Bria Grant]

How do you feel about the.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You. It's funny because I feel this. I. I. So I love podcasting with you because sometimes you'll say something that I've never even articulated to myself, and it's really true because there's something about the second person that does make it surreal. Like, and I love weird fiction and horror fiction so much that having parts of a book be in second person does make it really creepy.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it's. You know what book? I mean, I even read it. But I assume that book, you is in second person.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I've never read it.

[Bria Grant]

That they base the show on. Did you watch the show? I watched the show. Okay. Well, in the show, he does a lot of narrating where he's like, you are walking down the street. You look good in your Whatever. Because he's, like, stalking this girl. And I assume that's from the book. And that makes sense because when I'm reading a you book, I kind of feel like I'm being stopped. Like, I'm like, why are you talking to me about, like, about myself? But it is. It's Creepy.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. So it seems like for both of us, your second person is a good flavor to put in a stew, but you don't want it to be the whole thing.

[Bria Grant]

No, no, no.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What about. What about third person? So. So there's third person limited. There's two types of third person where the narrator is. It's third person, but the narrator is telling the story about other characters. But they only are. They're telling it through the lens of that character they own. The narrator only knows what the character knows. And then there', omniscient, which is the narrator telling the story about other characters, but they know everything. What do you think? Big fan.

[Bria Grant]

I mean, I'm a fan of both. I probably am more towards limited. So it's still like kind of character based and. Because then I feel like we're getting into like. I mean, I guess I'm interested in both of them. I. I will take either and probably won't think twice about either. But if you gave me a choice, I would probably go limited.

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

Oh.

[Mallory O'Meara]

See, for me, third person, omniscient. That's my tippity top. That's what I want.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, you want to know everything because I'm. That makes sense for you. I want to know everything. I'm the nosiest person you know. I mean, get out of here.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But you know what is. It's because I'm such a plot person. I want to know all this stuff. I want to know what's going on. I want to. The thing that is the driving force behind me reading is I want to know what happened. Oh my God. That's how you hook me. All you need to do is be like I to want is just get me a little curious about what happened. You just very gently reference something that happened 20 years ago. Oh, I gotta know. I gotta know what happened. I gotta know what happened in this small town. I need. That's that secret. So third person pov Omniscient. Delicious. That's what I.

[Bria Grant]

Sometimes too much information for me and I'm like, there's so much overwhelming to have all this information.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There's literally. There's never been a too much information for me. That is.

[Bria Grant]

Wow. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's all I want. And that's. That's that. You know what? And I. I have to shout out, hold on, I have it saved. One of the glassers made a whole. And I sent this to you. They set out a survey for Aphantasia in the glasser community. And remember I sent this to you and they made a Whole. They did a survey of whether or not their level of aphantasia in the apple test from 1 to 5 correlated to the reading doorways. I'm trying to find the name of the person who did this because they're so amazing and we appreciate them so much because this is just so cool. I wonder if your preference of POV has anything to do. Oh, my God. Also, I didn't even see this. This Bonus Sarah statistics. 10.8% of responders were named Sarah. Only one Sarah identified as having aphantasia. The most common reading doorway for Sarahs is character at 57%.

[Bria Grant]

I do wonder if, like, I am also just interested in character more than plot. And so that is why I'm into the limited. You know, Like, I want to know, like, first it's setting, but then it's like, character. I want to know, like, about this one specific. I'd rather do, like, a deep dive into one character than I know.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I want to know what happened in that town. I want the history in every situation. I am always the librarian character giving out the backstory in that one pivotal scene. That's all. That's. I mean, and I'm like, I do this certain care. There's characters that I care about and all of that. And I, you know, there's no doorway I hate. But I want to know what happened. And I need. I need. I need third person POV to really get in there. Like, otherwise I have to wait for it. And I'm like, no, I want to know what happened. What about fourth person? When it's multiple characters speaking together, like in Unlikely Animals, when there you flip to the POV of the cemetery and it's like, we do this. We. We are watching this happen.

[Bria Grant]

I forgot about that in that book because I was gonna say this is. This is the wildest choice. This is the wildest choice for a book to be fourth person. We do. You know, I have a theory about jam rankings. Jam and jellies.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What?

[Bria Grant]

Okay, this is something my brother and I decided when we were younger because we would. My dad would only. He would buy the weirdest jellies. And then we were like, you can't have a weird marmalade and not have grape. You gotta have grape at the top. You gotta have a grape.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

You have to have your base.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

And my dad would have, like, pink lemonade, marmalade, and nothing else.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's like not having regular water. But you have, like, Celsiuses. Like, you have. Yeah, that's baseline.

[Bria Grant]

You gotta Have a baseline and fourth person. Fourth person is the pink lemonade marmalade. It's exactly what it is. Like, it's okay to sprinkle in there, but you better give me something that I can hold on to. Like a whole book like that. I don't know if I could read it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Maybe I could. I don't know.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Maybe.

[Bria Grant]

I mean, a good.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Make anything work.

[Bria Grant]

That's true. And a weird sci fi book that was like, from the point of view of like a sentient fungus or something. I'd be like, okay, I'm interested. But it's not something I would seek out. I think I'd be impressed if someone pulled it off.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, I like, I. Again, it adds a really weird element. Like, I remember when we both. When we were reading Unlikely Animals, I was just like, wow, this is really fun. Like when it switches to the. Because it's just such a weird. I think I just like, weird is really.

[Bria Grant]

I think Lincoln and the Bardot might be told like this too. I could be wrong, but it's like them being like. Because they're all also weirdly. In a cemetery.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

If you live in a cemetery, you speak in fourth person.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're a ghost. You get. You are for a fourth person pov. But I'm trying to think of other, like, Greek chorusy situations.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, that's what it feels like. Very like, chorus.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. I'm trying to like, besides ghosts. Yeah. Like a sci fi made. Or like three raccoons in a trench coat. Fungal. Fungal.

[Bria Grant]

It's a tough one to pull off.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Bria Grant]

But it's cool when people are able to do it. Mm.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So what about multiple POVs?

[Bria Grant]

Well, I know how you feel about that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, yeah.

[Bria Grant]

I honestly, POV is not something I think about much. Like, I am inhaling it, I'm consuming it. I'm never going, oh, I can't believe you just switched POVs. I would notice, but I would not think twice about it. As long as the flow worked for me. What do you think about multiple pov?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Multiple POV is interesting because it's like, it's like topping me or it's like doming me. It's like, because I want to know so bad. And then as soon as you get to. When I'm getting to know something, we switch to a different character. And then I have to keep. It's like I have to. It keeps you reading like you. There's no good place to stop because you're like, well, now I need to read this. This other chapter. So I can get back to that, what happened with this first character. But now I'm invested in what's happening with this. Like, it just. It really. If you want me to inhale a fucking book, put it multiple POVs. Third person. I am hooked. I am sucked in. I can't, because it's like you're.

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

You're.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's all the information, but you're meeting it out in these little bits, and it is. That's how it's like. I. I want all the information, but it does feel good to be, like, so sucked into a book that. Because I'm trying to think of, like, ton of French, does this really well. Like, a lot of good thriller authors will do this. Fantasy books and, like, genre books. There's a big cast. The thing that's tough with the multiple PO is you gotta have all the POVs. Have to be good. Nothing is worse than, like, you're like, oh, I don't give a. About this character.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. And you know what? Fifth season, that's what they do. They do. She does multiple POVs. She does. Like, one is told with you, one is told in third, and maybe one is holding first, and maybe all three.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I can't remember. Like, yeah, nothing was worse. Like, I remember when I was reading Game of Thrones before the. Before the show came out, and you'd be like, you're so desperate to know what happens to all your characters that you love. Like, when Feast of Crows came out, I think is the fourth book, and you realize it's not even all the POVs that you want, and you have to get the next book.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, no.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Crushing, Crushing. So It's. Yeah, multiple POVs is tough, but it can really hit if it's written. I mean, that's really the thing. All of these can be good if they're written well. But, yeah, I love feeling, like, hooked like a little fish. Do you ever see. Did you ever see that video that went like. It was like. It was like a. Someone had taken a video on an. On a boat underwater of a fish as it was being pulled through the water. That's kind. And it's like, right up in the fish's face as it's like swimming after this.

[Bria Grant]

I haven't seen this. Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because that's. I. I don't know why it's on hockey Twitter a lot for some reason, but that's what I feel like when I'm reading a multiple POV book. So you're. Does this ever. If you're picking up a book, you're you're not paying attention to the pov.

[Bria Grant]

I'm pretty POV agnostic. I would say if it's a fourth person pov, it would throw me for a loop. But, you know, sometimes I go for apricot jelly or whatever, so paper cup preserves. So like, occasionally I'm like, let's try it. That seems wild. I know some people just like, are very specific about what they like and they'll even be like, I like a first person POV when they write in about their wheelhouse. And I think it's something to think about with your wheelhouse.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

You know, if, if this is something you respond to, it's just not something I even think about. I think if you maybe if your doorway is language, then I think that this is something you probably already know about yourself. I just don't hardly think it. But what about you? Is it affecting whether or not you're going to read a book?

[Mallory O'Meara]

100%. I am assessing. It's one of the. You know what I, I realized? I think next year I'm going to start tracking POV and Cawpile because I think that'll be really interesting to see how much of each POV I'm reading. But also what my star rating for all those books is. If it's affecting how much I like a book, I think that would be really good information. But yeah, if I pick up a book and it's first person, I'm immediately like, this better be good. Like, I won't, I won't not read a book. But it's on, it's on notice. You know what I mean? It's gonna be really, really, really good. It's like watching someone like, you're like ordering a, ordering food at a restaurant with something that can either go either way. You know what I mean? Like, I love oysters, but you gotta get oysters at the right place or you're, you will be allergic.

[Bria Grant]

So I don't get them at all. But yes, that is true. That is true. You got to be careful. Or it's like when you're in the middle, when you're in like the middle of the country and you're like, should I get sushi? I don't know.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It seems kind of hard not do that. Nope, nope, nope. So I am interested, of course. I can't wait to hear what the glasses think of POVs. I know we're going to get some strong opinions. Send your thoughts on the best and worst POVs to reading glasses, podcastmail.com and before we test out Reciprocard, we're going to take a quick break.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Wonderful is a podcast where we talk about things we like that's hard to sell in a promo like this. So we've enlisted the help of piano rock superstar Billy Joel to tell you about some of the topics we've covered. Take it away. Real Billy Joel, Teddy Rock Spin on

[Unknown Intro Speaker]

Lake Zion, Worcestershire Circle Time, Sega Drink Has Caesar Salad. Tower of Annoyed, Keepy Up, Big Time Capsules, Wayne's World, Cheese Pulls, Wallace Stevens, Donkey Kong, Fun Size Almond Toy. They didn't start the podcast. Except that's not true. They did in 22. They didn't start the podcast. No, they actually did. That was, in fact, a bib.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Listen to Wonderful every Wednesday on maximumfun dot or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, Real Billy Joel.

[Mallory O'Meara]

No problem, Griffin. Time to test out some book tech. Advances in bookish technology. This week we're testing out Reciprocard. Shout out to all the folks who emailed about this. Thank you. Thank you. What is reciprocard? This is from the website.

[Ad Voice]

It.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So this is from Tim directly. I love that Tim is a glasser. This is the greatest of all time.

[Bria Grant]

We love you, Tim.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Tim. You rule. So Tim says. Tim says. It's just. It's on the website.

[Bria Grant]

It's not like you.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You go to the Reciprocard website and Tim is there on a live feed waving to you. But the website says Reciprocard is a discovery engine that helps you figure out exactly how many library cards you qualify for by mapping overlapping networks and reciprocal agreements across the country. We help you get more library cards so you can skip the wait for popular tit. Unlock more free ebooks and audiobooks on the Libby app. Okay, what do we think?

[Bria Grant]

Wow, we loved it. I learned so much. Did you know I can go to the Burbank Library in person and just get another card? I didn't know that information.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Pretty.

[Bria Grant]

That's crazy. That's wild. Plus, it has library cards you can pay for. So I typed in. I was like, here's where I live. It's like, you can go to Los Angeles. I'm like, yes. But then there's all these other places I could go, like, tons of places. I mean, I live. We live in a big metropolitan area, so obviously there's a lot of places. But it also has places like, like, hey, if you want a library card in, say, Orange county or Pittsburgh, it costs money, but it is possible for you to go get another library card and like, the Money could be worth it if you don't have like a large system. And some of it wasn't that expensive. Like, I was like, oh well, this is the equivalent of buying three books or something.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And like, I mean, again, books are almost $40 now.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

We did a whole episode about like,

[Bria Grant]

so I think the Pittsburgh one was like 60 bucks or something. And I was like, you know, for two years or something and I was like, that's pretty good, you know, for free. Books, Books. What did you think?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Five out of five pages, baby, boom, boom. It's so easy, it's free. The thing that I love about Reciprocard is that we get a lot of emails from folks because it is the thing that's kind of hard to figure out on your own. Like, especially now that that search engines have crumbled like wet cake. It's really difficult to be like there had. Up until this point there hasn't been us just one place where you could be like, this is where I live. This is the library that I normally go to. What else can I get? You know, and it's, it's something that, when we've done episodes like this before because we did an episode about, I don't know, maybe a year or two ago where I did a bunch of research to like figure out, okay, where, what are, what are libraries that you can pay for? And that information changes a lot. So it, yeah, it just is so great to have it in one super easy place. You don't have to make a account. You just put in what library system that you're part of and where and what else you qualify for. It's, it's so easy. Like, and also I love the fact that it tells you like, it gives you the things you need to do to get them. Like in LA, I think we have what, 14 libraries with reciprocal agreements.

[Bria Grant]

It was a lot.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Reciprocal agreements between libraries means that residents of nearby county cities or states can sign up for library cards without having to pay a non resident fee. So many California libraries have agreements with each other and California residents can sign up for library cards all over the state for free. I love California and I love reciprocard. Like, and I just love that it's like, here's all the stuff that you qualify for, but you're gonna have to go in person to this one. You have to pay for it. Like, it tells you, it's just so it gives you all the information you need without having to like make calls.

[Bria Grant]

Library look. Yeah. To know that like, if I could Just go in person to the Burbank Library. And now I'm a member of the Burbank system. That makes it Burbank's 20 minutes for me. That makes it so much easier than, like, me having to call and figure that out. I never would have called.

[Ad Voice]

Called.

[Bria Grant]

I never would have called. Like, I would never have tried to figure that out.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And you're traveling a lot. You should start going to libraries and be. And pick up library cars as you

[Bria Grant]

travel all over the. All over the world. That's.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's a pretty fun idea. But, Tim, five out of five pages.

[Bria Grant]

We, We. We appreciate your work. We are very happy with. Yeah, we salute you. Thank you for your time and your help, Tim. Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. So we're gonna put a link in the show notes. The thing about this is, why would you not test it out? Why would you not go? It's so. It will take you 30 seconds. It's so easy. This is really, really, I think, can improve a lot of people's reading lives. So, Tim, if there's anything we can ever do, help you out, let us know and you can send your book deck ideas for stuff you'd like us to test out to reading glasses podcast gmail.com. Now let's answer a bookish question from one of our listeners. And Tara wrote in to say hello. Brienne, Mallory, I'm a very new listener, but listen anytime I can. So excited that I found you and wish I had sooner. Slowly making my way through the backlog. I love reading and I've already put several books you've talked about on hold at the library. Just finished Daughter Daring, five stars. Wow. Thank you so much. I live in Minneapolis, and between raising two children and everything that is happening in our city, your humor and insights have been an escape. Thank you so much for bringing light into my days. Here's my question. How long do you wait to start a new book after finishing 1? Minutes? Hours. Thanks for all you do. Bria, you want to read Inara's wheelhouse

[Bria Grant]

historical fiction with strong females, especially World War II fiction about cooking and baking, badass moms, magical realism and epistolary novels. Sounds like a glasser to me.

[Mallory O'Meara]

All right. What are you. Bria, are you. Is it like. Like that scene? I can't know what Marvel movie it is when someone, like, takes a chug of something and then throws it down and goes another. Is that. Is that.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I feel like. I don't know. This may have changed for you, but. No, that's not, that's not me. I found I do best when I don't finish a book and start one in the same evening. I'm usually an evening reader. So if I finish a book and it's not time to go to sleep, I read like an essay or a comic book or something else or I try to finish the book like earlier in the day. Because if I finish a book and then I'm like now I'm going to start a new book or usually I have some like book that like I'm kind chapters every so often it's like too confusing for my brain. I can start up one the next day though, like the next night. So like I finish a book one night, I can start a new one the next night. And it's because I think I need to do a little bit of processing. I also want to think about what I have and be like, okay, I could read any of one of these books, you know, which one do I want to read and really think about like what kind of mood I'm in or what I just read and what will be like a good next step in my reading journey. So I am doing about 24 hours. It's about 24 hours before I start something new.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, you and I are not often reading multiple fiction, multiple types of the same book at the same time. You and I don't really do that,

[Bria Grant]

but I usually have like some sort of non fiction going or comic book or something. So I always have something else I can just pick up. What are you doing? Are you. I remember one time, this is early in the show and I think you've changed but you were reading something and you finished it and you reached and just grabbed another one and you were dating someone at the time was like, did you even like stop between the two?

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's just like an assembly line going past my brain. Yeah, I definitely don't do that anymore. I have to wait a while. It's the same thing. If I finish a book at night, I wait until the next day. I actually don't like to. I get bummed out if I finish a book during the day because then I'm like, oh, what am I going to do the rest of the night? I think I need at least 6 hours, 12 hours like it. I normally if I finish a book one day I will because first I have to digest it. I got to log it in my cawpile. I got to maybe text somebody about it, probably you. I have to let the world of that book fade from my brain. A little bit. I got to go read an essay about it. I got to like digest it a bit. I, I don't know how I used to do that. I would never be able to pick up a book and, and or put a book down and then pick one up. I gotta, I need to get it out of my system. I think I do like, I like to wait till the next day because if I like, if I finish a book at night it's fine because then you wake up and you can start a new book. But the, if I finish in the afternoon, I'm like I guess I'll watch something. I guess I'll maybe if I have a short story collection going. If I have a new Nat Geo. Nat Geos are great, great palette cleansers for me. But yeah, I can't. There's something about my brain that's kind of just like stuck in that world for a little while.

[Bria Grant]

I can finish it in the afternoon and start a new one at night. It's like kind of helpful for me just to. It's what it is is that I can't like close a book and open a new one right away. I just need like a minute. Cuz I'm not cawpiling like immediately. I'm not logging immediately. So like I'm kind of like it's fine if I move on. But yeah, the 24 hours is really the best.

[Mallory O'Meara]

The only thing I think I could do is that like if I finished, if I finish my print, like I finish a novel and then I'm like going to full laundry and I turn on my audiobook, my fiction, my non fiction audiobook, that's that if I'm. If it's in different formats and it's in different genres, it helps, it makes it a little bit easier. But I could, I don't. Yeah. Imagining myself just picking up another novel especially I think the key to this is it's something that I can't finish a novel and then start a new one. Like if I have like right now I keep a mass market paperback romance novel in my purse at all times. Just my little purse book which is very fun.

[Bria Grant]

Little purse treat.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bria keeps a bar of chocolate. I keep some smut, you know, and so that I could kind of pick up and read a couple chapters of. But I don't think I could start a whole new world that I don't think I could onboard myself into a new world right away. I need a little time. Time. But I'm curious if the Glassers. If they're if they're eating books like potato chips, they're just picking one up. I'm. I'd like to know one after another. So if you want us to answer your bookish question or solve your reader problem, you can send it to reading glasses podcast gmail.com as always want to thank the wonderful mods who run our Discord server and our Facebook group. Remember all kinds of fun merch in our Void merch store. There's a link in the show notes to that and if you like the show, come on. Nice. It's an easy, quick thing to do. Give us a nice rating. Give us a really nice review. Do you listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Cat? I don't know. There's so many different podcatchers. Wherever you listen to pick up your phone right now, you know it's probably already in your hand. Unless you're driving, then you're exempt. Don't worry about it. But you should still do this. When you get to wherever you're going, take 30 seconds, open up the app on your phone, give us a five star rating. It really is great for the show. It's really great for our hearts. It helps us reach more readers. You can email us@reading glassespodcastmail.com find us on Instagram at Reading Glasses Podcast. Thanks for listening and thanks for reading.

[Bria Grant]

Thanks for reading.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Maximum Fun.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

A worker owned network of artist owned

[Mallory O'Meara]

shows supported directly by you.