Thriving in Distressed, Complex Deals with Andrew Gindy, Founder of Range Equity Management LP (REM)

Summary

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Real Talk: Real Estate Discussions with Andrew Kirsh

Episode Title: Thriving in Distressed, Complex Deals with Andrew Gindy, Founder of Range Equity Management (REM)
Release Date: July 30, 2025
Guest: Andrew (“Andy”) Gindy, Founder of Range Equity Management LP
Host: Andrew Kirsh

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Overview

In this episode, host Andrew Kirsh welcomes Andrew Gindy (known as “Andy” to friends and colleagues), the 36-year-old founder of Range Equity Management LP (REM). The conversation offers candid insight into Gindy’s journey through the real estate private equity world, his bold leap to entrepreneurship, and how REM thrives in complex and distressed deals in today’s dynamic market. Listeners gain practical career advice, deep perspectives on joint venture equity, deal structuring, and the current landscape for distressed asset opportunities.

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Main Discussion Topics & Insights

1. Personal Background and Professional Journey

• Upbringing & Education:
  • Grew up in Los Angeles, attended Oakwood (San Fernando Valley), Cornell University (hospitality program, essentially a business school). [04:42]
• Career Foundation:
  • Joined Walton Street Capital out of college and spent over 13 years there in real estate private equity, honing expertise across diverse sectors: hotels, casinos, multifamily, office, industrial.
  • Moved from Chicago (8 years) to open the West Coast office during COVID. [07:36]
  • “There's something to be said for continuity...those relationships compound, especially if you're in one place.” — Andrew Gindy [06:48]

2. Lessons from Walton Street: Private Equity & Partnership

• Walton Street specialized as a hands-on, direct private equity real estate investor—contrasted with groups more removed from the real estate.

• Challenge in joint venture (JV) equity today: market return expectations are often out of sync with present realities (operators struggle to fulfill double-digit returns that capital providers target). [11:56]

• Quote:
  “A fund is marketed at an 18% return whether the treasury is at 0 or 5...the regular way multifamily acquisition doesn't underwrite to a 20, but it never has.” — Andrew Gindy [12:45]

• Key traits of successful operator partnerships:

  • Transparency, communication, stewardship—especially in tough times.
  • Example: Over 30 successful deals with Will Smith (Newport Beach operator, not the actor). [14:04]

3. Entrepreneurship: Founding REM

• Inspired to create something new, leveraged timing as Walton was between funds, and saw a “big white space”:

  • Larger funds increasingly dominate, but operators aren’t scaling at the same rate—leaving “a huge opportunity to help these operators scale and also help the capital be deployed.” [15:50]

• Willingness to take risk, self-belief, and the compounding value of long-term relationships were crucial to the transition.

  • “You only get one or two shots...I really wanted to do it and I believed in myself...” — Andrew Gindy [18:52]

• Notable Reflection:

  • “It's really important that you have your own enterprise value—not Blackstone or Walton Street or Squire Kush—like you are your own person.” [18:56]
  • Support from spouse and resilience are critical for entrepreneurial success. Many aspire to leap, but not everyone will succeed. [20:11]

4. REM’s Focus: Where and How They Invest

• Strategy:
  • Both direct and platform capital provider—flexible in structure (JV, code GP, rescue financing).
  • Focuses on complex, distressed, and “broken” deals, seeking creative entry points and “alpha.”
  • Avoids “bond-like” assets (e.g., 10-year net leases to Amazon), pursues operating assets where NOI can be grown (hospitality, residential, select senior housing). [22:01]
  • “We're stock pickers, we're not buying bonds.” — Andrew Gindy [22:45]
• Returns:
  • Targets high double-digit (20%+) returns, using their own capital and bespoke outside capital per deal.
• Development:
  • New construction only for special situations due to currently low development yields and preference for buying below replacement cost. [23:04]

5. Capital Relationships & Structure

• Leverages a wide network: family offices, PE firms, high-net-worth individuals, RIAs—each matched to specific opportunity profiles.
• “You have to have different capital sources because it's different strokes for different folks.” [24:00]
• Prefers not to be boxed into rigid ‘fund buckets’; seeks flexibility and opportunistic deal flow.

6. REM’s Specialty: Thriving on Complexity and Distress

• Known in the market as creative, tenacious problem solvers for complex, broken, or distressed deals (e.g., capital structure repairs, bankruptcy, recapitalizations).
• Inbox includes residential, hospitality, and occasionally office—particularly where value can be added creatively. [26:03]

7. Deal Example: Snowmass Ski Resort Rescue Financing

• Provided $100M rescue loan for value-rich but cash-poor ski resort near Aspen, preventing foreclosure.
• Formed partnership with Oaktree Capital, closed and exited successfully in four months.
• “It was off market, special situation...we created kind of a bespoke solution for the ownership group.” — Andrew Gindy [28:58]

8. Distress Market Analysis: Today vs. GFC

• The current distress cycle is a “U”—protracted and less vicious than the fast-clearing V of the Great Financial Crisis (GFC).
• Office delinquency rates remain surprisingly low (~10%), indicating “early innings” of distress.
  • “This is a huge opportunity that's going to be here for years.” [31:08]
• Nuanced take on impairment: widespread technical impairment vs. actual loan delinquencies. [32:31]

9. Opportunistic Investing in Undervalued Markets

• Contrarian approach: Investments in markets overlooked by institutional capital, e.g., multifamily in Portland. Avoids herd mentality.
• Emphasizes data over headlines; sees value and population growth in “unloved” regions. [35:03]
  • “Price is what you pay, value is what you get. And so ultimately are you getting good value for what you're paying?...You have to look beyond the headlines.” — Andrew Gindy [35:03]

10. Current Market Observations

• Noted a surge in deal flow and transaction activity since late spring, after a brief post-election lull. Many deals in legacy funds, forced sales, or owners needing to move on.
• Debt markets are robust, expecting further tailwinds from lower short rates and limited new supply. [38:11]

11. Reputation, Execution & “Trust Me” Factor

• Importance of reputation: “You can lose it in a heartbeat.” [40:43]
• New ventures may have to “overpay” on early deals to prove reliability; executing as promised is non-negotiable.
• “Reputation is everything...I think the trust me factor is big.” [41:51]

12. Advice for Industry Newcomers

• Try different tracks (operations, lending, development) to find what excites you.
• “You have to follow your passion. I think passion is number one, your North Star.” [42:57]
• Each seat (operator, private equity, brokerage) has merit; core is knowing yourself.

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Notable Quotes

• On long-term relationships & career building:

  “There's something to be said for continuity. And I think that compounds, just like in investing...”
  — Andrew Gindy [06:48]

• On the challenge with JV equity providers:

  “A fund is marketed at an 18% return whether the treasury is at 0 or 5...the regular way multifamily acquisition doesn't underwrite to a 20, but it never has.”
  — Andrew Gindy [12:45]

• On entrepreneurial risk:

  “You only get one or two shots...I really wanted to do it and I believed in myself and what we could build...”
  — Andrew Gindy [18:52]

• On distinguishing REM’s strategy:

  “We're stock pickers, we're not buying bonds.”
  — Andrew Gindy [22:45]

• On current market sentiment and advice:

  “Price is what you pay, value is what you get ... You have to look beyond the headlines.”
  — Andrew Gindy [35:03]

• On reputation:

  “Reputation is everything ... you can lose it in a heartbeat.”
  — Andrew Gindy [40:43]

• On career passion:

  “You have to follow your passion. I think passion is number one, your North Star.”
  — Andrew Gindy [42:57]

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• 00:32–02:43: Introductions, nicknames, industry camaraderie
• 04:42–07:32: Gindy’s upbringing, education, and early career at Walton Street
• 11:56–15:05: JV equity provider expectations, partnership best practices
• 15:50–19:57: Inspiration for REM, identifying market “white space,” entrepreneurial leap
• 20:58–24:36: REM’s flexible investment approach: direct, JV, platform, capital provider
• 26:03–27:04: REM’s specialty: complexity and distress, inbox overview
• 27:10–29:47: REM’s Snowmass rescue deal example
• 31:08–34:03: Distress cycle analysis; comparison to GFC
• 35:03–36:08: Contrarian investing in overlooked markets (e.g., Portland)
• 38:11–39:38: Market activity surge, capital markets candid view
• 40:43–41:51: Reputation and execution—early deals and building trust
• 42:57–43:38: Career advice for industry newcomers

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Memorable Moments

• Reminiscing Chicago’s Gibson’s steakhouse and deal memories for industry flavor [08:26–10:35]
• Debunking conventional market wisdom on “uninvestable” geographies and distressed office [35:03, 31:08]

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Tone and Style

Conversational, insightful, and candid, with generous sharing of real-world experiences, cautions, and encouragements for real estate professionals at any stage of their career.

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This episode serves as a masterclass on building a trusted brand in real estate, thriving amid complexity, and embracing contrarian, value-driven investment strategies—delivered in a manner that's as accessible as it is deeply knowledgeable.

Transcript

[Andrew Kirsch]

Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate discussions with Andrew Kirsch. In each episode, Andrew interviews industry leaders. We'll hear their real time opinions on today's market, their background and unique career highlights and guidance for newcomers into the industry. You can find this [e-mail] and on YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts and more. Now here's the host of Real Talk, Andrew K.

Episode 75 of Real Talk, or I think it's episode 75. When you turn 50 years old, you lose track. I know I mentioned in my last podcast that I was turning 50 the day the Jeff Karsh podcast dropped. And now I am officially 50 years old. So it took a couple weeks to launch my first podcast after my 50th birthday. Thank you to my family and friends who welcomed me to my second half century of life. I appreciate it. On this week's show, I have Andrew Gindy, the founder of Range Equity Management, otherwise known as R.E.M. or R.E.M. i like to call him Andy. Most of his friends call him Andy. Don't call me Andy, but we can call him Andy. Gindy is one of the most, let's just say, wisest 30 year olds in our business. Everyone loves Gindy, has great perspective on the real estate market, great personality, great conversations, and a great podcast guest. And so I hope you enjoy my conversation with Andrew Gindy. Welcome to another edition of Real Talk. I'm here with my good friend Andy Gindy, REM founder. What's going on, Andy?

[Andrew Gindy]

How we doing, Kishka?

[Andrew Kirsch]

So I'm Kishka and you are? Shayna Putam. Do you want to give our audience a little context of why we have these nicknames?

[Andrew Gindy]

Why do we have these nicknames?

[Andrew Kirsch]

Well, our good mutual friend David Schwarzman, who was guest number two on the podcast, I think he may be 75. I cannot believe I've done 75 of these things.

[Andrew Gindy]

That's how we know where David stands first.

[Andrew Kirsch]

No, it's because I don't think Walton street would have allowed you to do this. Is that true? Happy to be here. Oh, you're already dodging the first question. So Schwarzman gives everybody a nickname and maybe it's a public consumption nickname and then a private nickname. Yes, I do have two nicknames. I'll let you say the two.

[Andrew Gindy]

Kishka, or little Jesse, as David likes.

[Andrew Kirsch]

To call the LJ Kirsch. Lj, that's right. Lj.

[Andrew Gindy]

That's right.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So I don't mind the LJ of the J part to be Compared to Jesse Sharf is definitely a compliment. You know, the little. The little. You know. Yes. I'm not. We are both not the tallest, and I've always been a little self conscious about that. So to have LJ as a nickname, it's h. It's like a dubious nickname. And Kishka, he actually went to college with my sister and he called my sister Kishka.

[Andrew Gindy]

Oh, that's where it came from.

[Andrew Kirsch]

That's right.

[Andrew Gindy]

That's right. That's right.

[Andrew Kirsch]

From his USC days.

[Andrew Gindy]

Wow.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So. And you are? Shayna put him.

[Andrew Gindy]

I'm Shaya put him.

[Andrew Kirsch]

And why are you. Shayna put him.

[Andrew Gindy]

Look at this face. And.

[Andrew Kirsch]

But maybe my audience doesn't know what Sha puddin means.

[Andrew Gindy]

Pretty phrase. In Yiddish. In Yiddish, yes. That's great.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So enough about Schwarzman. Let's talk about Mr. Gindy. REM.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yes.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Do you go by REM or REM, like the musical group?

[Andrew Gindy]

Well, you can call us whatever you want.

[Andrew Kirsch]

All right, so what do you want for Range?

[Andrew Gindy]

Equity management.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Ah.

[Andrew Gindy]

And we do a lot of different things, hence our range. And REM is really important to me because my grandfather started a company through 50 years ago, and it was called REM. I bought it in the classifieds site unseen. And so I wanted to honor that legacy.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Wow.

[Andrew Gindy]

And you can call us Rem, Range, whatever you like.

[Andrew Kirsch]

That's amazing. Did the band rem.

[Andrew Gindy]

You're the first person to ever bring this up to me. Really?

[Andrew Kirsch]

That's what I thought.

[Andrew Gindy]

We get a lot of that too. And REM sleep too, of course.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Of course. All right, we'll talk about REM or Range in a few minutes. Talk about the man, the myth, the legend, Andy Gindy. Not a lot of people know the inside story of you, so why don't you talk about where you grew up and a little bit about your background?

[Andrew Gindy]

Sure. Grew up here in la, went to high school in the Valley, Oakwood. Probably the only real estate person, actually. I'm 36, went to Cornell for undergrad. Quickly got fascinated with real estate. I was in the hospitality program, which is really a business school. And first job out of college. Straight out of college I was in real estate, private equity. And I was at the same firm for almost over 13 years until I started around.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah, and what. Talk about Walton Street.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

What? I mean, obviously a. A very well known real. I'm sure. Do they do more than real estate?

[Andrew Gindy]

For real estate only.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Oh, really?

[Andrew Gindy]

Okay.

[Andrew Kirsch]

All right.

[Andrew Gindy]

What do you do?

[Andrew Kirsch]

All right, so what. What types of transactions did you do there?

[Andrew Gindy]

Ah, man, we anything from buying vacant office buildings to buying hotels in Europe, we did it all. Worked on casinos, apartment buildings, office industrial, you name it. A lot of hospitality, that's probably my specialty. But we've done it all and love the guys, love the firm. I think private equity is a fascinating area and only getting bigger and hence why I wanted to start a platform and ultimately create our own private equity business.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So that was the first job you had out of college?

[Andrew Gindy]

Yes, first and only.

[Andrew Kirsch]

That's amazing.

[Andrew Gindy]

First and only.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Hopefully. I would say that's rare in these days to go 13 years from your first job, you know, out of law school. I worked at Latham Walk ins. I was there for what, six, seven years, then Goodwin Proctor and ended up starting my own firm after spending a couple years at Reins and most of the real estate private equity folks that we know, I would say have been at a few places and maybe went from the operator side to the or capital side to the operator side or maybe brokerage. But you stayed there for 13 years.

[Andrew Gindy]

And there's something to be said for continuity. And I think that compounds, just like in investing, we've known each other for a long time and that's because we're both at the same places, running into each other at the same events, working on. On deals tangentially. And that just compounds over time those relationships compound, especially if you're in one place, because people start to get to know you and you start to really cultivate those relationships. So I love the guys, I love the platform. I had an amazing experience. They've been extremely supportive of what we're doing now at REM and fortunate to have former colleagues join me too. And I think that's a testament to the culture of the company.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah. And so it's a Chicago based company.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yes.

[Andrew Kirsch]

You in Chicago?

[Andrew Gindy]

I was in Chicago for almost eight years before opening a west coast office. Going back and forth during COVID And until now, where did you live in Chicago? I was in river north in Old Town. Amazing city. Ton of fun. Nothing better than going to Wrigley in August. We would do an annual event there. Really fun memories. Easy to forget how miserable those winters are.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So, you know, Chicago is my second city. Going to Northwestern undergrad and then law school. I was just there a couple months ago for a YPO real estate event. And just being there just for. It was 48 hours and I just love that city. We were at Gibson's and you could be at Gibson's any night of the week. It doesn't. Regardless of season. Yeah. I mean, we, we.

[Andrew Gindy]

Martinis are flowing.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Martini. We showed up at 9 o'.

[Andrew Gindy]

Clock.

[Andrew Kirsch]

If you show up at a restaurant in LA at 9 o', clock, it's half empty. We showed up at 9 o'. Clock. I had to wait for our table. It was a Tuesday night, about eight of us. And just what a great. I think even though it's a touristy restaurant, there's still a ton of locals and it doesn't feel contrived, you know, it just feels like Chicago.

[Andrew Gindy]

It's. It's beyond authentic. In that corner is special. We actually bought the property across the street and put together an amazing Italian restaurant. And it was good for the time. It was called Nico and it didn't work. And part of the reason it didn't work is the other side of the street is so packed, it's so busy, it's very hard to replicate. And they've got Hugos there too, so definitely special place. Special little triangle right by our office. Spent a lot of time at Gibson.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah, no, it's a. It's a great. It's a great, great spot. We're going to do one. One more story about Gibsons and then we'll move on. So. So my wife, she was. My wife, she. We were dating at the time. We went back for a college reunion, got in late. I said, we're gonna head to Gibson's. You know, it's 11 o'. Clock. I mean, 11 o', clock, you. First of all, all the restaurants in LA would be closed. So we get there at 11 and, you know, my wife's a petite woman and she. And the waiter comes and it was prototypical. It was like just out of Saturday Night Live, like a big, big Chicago guy with a Chicago accent, mustache. And he says, what can I get you guys? And she says. She asks him how. How is the Caesar salad? He looks at her and he says, At 11 o'.

[Andrew Gindy]

Clock.

[Andrew Kirsch]

At 11 o'. Clock. And he says, ma', am, do I look like I know how? He said, you came to Gibson's, order a stave. She says, okay, filet is. I mean, that. That's just prototypical.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah, classic.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah. So let me just lean in a little bit on. On sort of Walton street, and then we'll get to rem.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

You know, we do a lot of joint ventures here at Square Kirsch. I'd say half of our clients are sponsors, operators receiving private equity money, and the other half we're representing the capital provider. Yeah.

[Andrew Gindy]

And you've done an amazing job building that Book.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Ah, please.

[Andrew Gindy]

Thank you.

[Andrew Kirsch]

And so on. Beh so when I represent operators, it's it. They're frustrated because they want to do deals with joint venture equity providers. Yeah. But they feel that the capital's return expectations are much higher than what reality is even today. Like any of my operators will say, I can't get any JV money because they're looking for a net 18. I can't provide a net 18. How are any of these JV equity providers in business? So you were a JV equity provider for, for 13 years and so obviously you guys did deals. Is that a fair comment on, on where JV equity providers are that their return expectation is higher than what the market can deliver?

[Andrew Gindy]

Well, first of all, at Walton street we were very much a direct investor as well as allocating, but mostly I would say more direct in JVs. But we were really very close to the real estate and I think our partners appreciated that. Other groups are more allocators and more away from the real estate, really relying on the operator. Whereas I would say given the firm and how long it's been in business, we are much more hands on. And that's just part of the DNA of the company and my DNA as well. Return expectations don't change with interest rates. A fund is marketed at an 18% return whether the treasury is at 0 or 5. So you can't really risk adjust or return adjust for what the environment is. You are constantly seeking this total return. And so I think it is fair to say like, okay, the returns that are advertised for some of these funds are not realistic, but market conditions change. Where we're at today is different than where we were two years ago and five years ago and when Covid hit. So it really depends on the market environment. But you can find deals that hit these return targets. I don't think that's totally fair, but the run of the mill transaction, the regular way multifamily acquisition doesn't underwrite to a 20, but it never has. For the last 10 plus years it's always been 14 to 15% levered. Best case. And I like to say on real numbers, not fake numbers. But yeah, I think that's somewhat fair, but you gotta work a little bit harder to make the returns these days.

[Andrew Kirsch]

And so when you sat out in Wall Street.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Working with all different types of operators. Give me a few characteristics that you saw in operators that made it a successful partnership.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Versus other characteristics where it just, it wasn't working.

[Andrew Gindy]

Being transparent, overly communicative is very valuable. You Want someone to be a good steward of your money when you're investing with someone. And when we're investing with operators when we weren't, you want them to take care of your money in good times and more importantly, in bad. And so having someone who is really communicative, who's really detailed, who's following up, who's on top of it, even if it's a little too much, I think was really valuable. And, you know, our best partnerships were the ones that were repeat customers. And like with. With Will Smith, who's been great and helpful to me in my. In my new business as well. We did over 30 plus deals with Will. Harry, who I used to work with, now works with with Will. That's a testament to his character, the organization that he built, and the trust that we had with him and his team, who's phenomenal. So I think that doesn't go unnoticed. And ultimately, you want to do more and more business with the people who you've had good experiences with. And. And that's, you know, in good times and in bad.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Now, we're not talking about the actor and the sitting room. We're talking about the Will Smith who rolls in Newport beach with a gigantic, like, not even F150 truck. F150. That's his truck. And he has mentioned about hunting. And I don't know if I could hang with him. I just feel like my west side aura just wouldn't allow me to.

[Andrew Gindy]

You can hang as long as you got a deal.

[Andrew Kirsch]

As long as I have a deal.

[Andrew Gindy]

All right.

[Andrew Kirsch]

I think I great to be on the podcast. He's a great guy and a big USC guy, for sure. If you go into his office. Rem. So what led to the founding of this company?

[Andrew Gindy]

Had an amazing experience at Walton Street. Love the guys. I really wanted to start something, and you only get one or two shots. The firm was in between funds, and I just said to the guys, I really want to start something. Will you support me? And they said, yes, and transition out about a year, a little bit over a year ago, quick. But it's amazing how quickly time has gone and I saw this big white space. The capital is only getting bigger. If you look at most of the funds today, I'll give you a stat of every dollar that gets raised. 50 cents goes to a fund over a billion 5. And that's just going to continue. So that'll be 2 billion, 3 billion, 4. So more and more of the money is flowing to these bigger funds. Meanwhile, the operators, we were just Talking about they're not growing at the same rate as like down the street here, Aries management. And so there's this big white space that's only getting bigger and that's where we plan to, to, to spend time because I think there's an opportunity to help these operators scale and also help the capital be deployed and do it in a different way. And so I think there's this big white space where we can generate frankly, higher returns with potentially less risk in this, in this space which I can get into. And so that was the impetus and saw this huge opportunity. Listen, prices are down 20%. If you lever it 60% and prices get back to a dollar, you're going to double your money pretty quickly. And so it's a great time to be investing. This vintage is going to be phenomenal. And the biggest thing is there's a lot of broken deals out there. And so if we can play in this white space, if we can buy at a discount to peak value and if we can fix broken deals and, and, and, or platforms, I think we're going to do really, really well and time will tell how much we'll grow.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So I want to get into the real estate aspect and where you've fit.

[Andrew Gindy]

In the capital stack you got.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Before we go there, I want to just lean in on the fact that you took a leap, left a very prestigious private equity company that's known globally, a great compensation package. I, I assume brokers answering your phone calls because, you know, you're with Walton Street. We, I have clients, you know, a lot of people who are struggling with what to do in their next phase of their career. They're in their late 30s to early 40s and it's like they, they may not be able to make that leap. You know, I left big law, started this firm. You left private equity, your big private equity. You started your firm?

[Andrew Gindy]

Yes.

[Andrew Kirsch]

I guess the question is what, what gave you the impetus to, to make the move?

[Andrew Gindy]

I wanted to do it and I believed in myself and what we could build in a team. And we're about to be five people and growing rapidly. So I think you have to believe in yourself, give it a little confidence and a little chutzpah doesn't hurt. And you know what's nice that I've experienced and going back to the value of compounding relationships, I didn't know how people were going to treat me leaving. Right. You don't have this fancy business card anymore, so it's really important that you have your own enterprise value, not Blackstone or Walton street or Squire Kush. Like you are your own person and that. And, and the reason I bring that up is I didn't know who was going to be my friends pre and post. My leaving job. My job and starting a new platform. And what I've been pleasantly surprised by is I have a lot more friends than I thought I did, including you, you. And you just don't know how people are going to treat you. I've been pleasantly surprised to the upside and again, I think that has to do with those, the compounding of those relationships over time.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah. And I assume your wife was fully on board because oftentimes the people that.

[Andrew Gindy]

I'm representing, most important piece, it's their.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Wife who's like, ah, I'm a little nervous. I don't know. We're having, I don't even. You have kids?

[Andrew Gindy]

Yes, I have two kids.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah.

[Andrew Gindy]

It was just going to get, you know, it was only going to get harder. I just had my second child when I left and did not have anything formally lined out but I really wanted to do. I really believed in myself. I really had the support of everyone around me as I mentioned, and I did it. I don't think that this is for everyone. I think a lot of people will make this leap and not be successful. I think you have to be extremely resilient and have a lot of perseverance.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah. All right, now let's dig into the real estate, what you guys are doing. So, so talk about where's REM fitting in the cap stack? Is it providing capital to others? Is it doing its own deals direct types of asset classes? All the above. I know this could be like a, a 10 minute answer to this question. So let's just start with are you buying deals direct? Are you providing capital like Wall Street?

[Andrew Gindy]

So at Walton street we were both a direct investor and allocator debt and equity. So this is an extension of what we were doing, but in a different way. We are investing directly or partnering with operators or backing platforms. So we can do a lot of different things. Hence range. We are. I'll tell you what, we're not doing a 10 year lease to Amazon. I'm not your guy. If I was smart, maybe I would be. That seems a lot easier than what we're doing. We're doing a lot of complicated things, deals. We are looking at backing platforms, we're looking at distress situations, we're looking at code GP opportunities, we're looking at ways we can generate alpha and excess return. We are not investing to make 7 or 8% returns. Everything we're doing is high double, you know, high double digit, 20 plus type return expectations. And that's because we're investing our own capital. We want to make high returns.

[Andrew Kirsch]

I'm sorry, go ahead. And what about the asset classes?

[Andrew Gindy]

So I would say that our focus is on operating assets. So again, the 10 year lease to Amazon, that is a basically a bond, right? You are buying a fixed coupon for 10 years. We are doing the complete opposite. We want levers to pull. We want to come into a deal in a very creative way or a platform. We want to grow cash flows as quickly as possible. I'm not a big fan of relying on lower exit cap rates these days or lower financing rates. I want to actually grow noi. And we want to come into deals in a creative way so that hopefully maybe it's something that has a value of a dollar, we're coming in at 90 cents and I can get into sort of how we do that while we grow the cash flow. So we're looking at operating assets, hospitality, residential, certain types of housing. We're starting to look at senior housing, for example, and everything in between. But think leverage to pull operating assets. We're stock pickers, we're not buying bonds.

[Andrew Kirsch]

And what about ground up construction?

[Andrew Gindy]

We would look at it. New development is hard. Basically every new development deal underwrites to a 6% return on cost or lower.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Even if my clients say it's a.

[Andrew Gindy]

Seven on fake numbers, maybe it's a seven. On my numbers it's a six. And so it's very hard to justify new construction. Plus you can buy below replacement cost. So why would I develop? That said, for certain very special real estate, like you know the Century City office tower right here, there's a place for it. It's incredible real estate or it's highly differentiated. So we'll look at development or if there's an interesting way for us to get in the development like in preferred equity or mezzanine debt. But generally development's tough right now.

[Andrew Kirsch]

And so what about the capital that's behind you? How did you form a fund? Do you have programmatic relationships? The types of capital, Is it institution, is it family office? How did you.

[Andrew Gindy]

So we're really good at complex deals and we have relationships across the landscape with family offices, private equity firms, high net worth individuals, RIAs, you name it. And so we're able to tap into those relationships for each deal. And I thought that was really important in order to get our range, in order to do different things. You have to have different capital sources because it's different strokes for different folks. And that again, going back to the compounding of those relationships, we've met a lot of people over many years of being in this business and as a result have been able to leverage those. So I'm working on deals with different friends of ours in the industry, depending on the transaction and then we have access to some kind of different capital sources such as family offices that have a longer term horizon that can do things that others can't. And I think that's incredibly valuable today because we see a lot of different opportunities that we think are interesting and we have different capital sources in order to take advantage of them. Private equity is great at bucketing strategies. Core plus debt equity, opportunistic, industrial core, multifamily in the Sunbelt, you name it, there's a product for it. We are more agnostic. We don't want to have 10 different buckets. We have one bucket and. But we want to go to where the best opportunities are. So that's, that's generally what we're doing. Which makes it hard. Our world and our, our aperture is very wide right now. We can do a lot of different things.

[Andrew Kirsch]

I had Jeff Karshawn on the show last week and I asked him. I'm going to ask you the same question I asked.

[Andrew Gindy]

Hi buddy.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So you're doing so many different asset classes. You play throughout the cap stack.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yes.

[Andrew Kirsch]

You could be on the debt side, you could be JV equity, you could be CO gp, you could be platform equity. What is your inbox like? I mean how, how should people think of you? Because you're not in a narrow box.

[Andrew Gindy]

We are really good at complexity. Again, 10 year leased, Amazon. I'm not your guy. Broken capital structure, distressed debt, foreclosure, bankruptcy. You got the right person. And so we are again looking for levers to pull, looking for complexity where we can provide an advantage. A unique, a unique situation. A fully marketed process where someone's going to pay the highest price for an asset. You're probably not going to find this. Yeah, it's a recapitalization. It's distressed debt. Maybe it's a platform that's looking for new equity, something that is more creative. That's where you're going to find us. I would say most of what we're doing is residential hospitality. That said, I might buy an office building, might buy the debt on some office buildings.

[Andrew Kirsch]

We'll see.

[Andrew Gindy]

I'm actually pretty optimistic about what I'm Seeing in that space. So we, we can play in a lot of different sectors. We kind of know what we like. To answer your question. Yeah, but it's hard.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Can you talk about a couple deals and fun? Yeah, of course. Can you talk about a couple deals that you have closed on?

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah. So the first investment that we made post forming was a hundred million dollar rescue financing of the ski resort. It was in Snowmass, Colorado outside of Aspen PO and the owners, I happen to know, friends of ours and they were facing a foreclosure and they were over leveraged. But they had what I call a value rich asset with not a lot of cash flow. So cash poor, value rich. And it's six acres, ski in, ski out, Snowmass, Colorado. We ended up providing them with a new loan to take out their existing debt prior to a foreclosure so that they could stabilize the property and sell it significantly more than their debt which had matured. And so we did that. We brought in our friends at Oaktree Capital to be our partners who were wonderful and want to do more with us and we want to do more with them and ultimately rescued this project. And the project was sold in April. So we realized our first investment in four months.

[Andrew Kirsch]

I assume Cloud 9 is not part of the collateral, but. I know, but I hope you guys got to Cloud nine as a closing celebration.

[Andrew Gindy]

Hopefully we'll get to do that this winter. The deal cycled out so quickly we didn't get to have a closing dinner.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Have you heard of the legendary Cloud 9 trips that Carolwood has put together the last couple years?

[Andrew Gindy]

I have not.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Well, you need to transact with friends. And they've done it multiple years as it started as a closing celebration after the closing of the Aon building. And given their activity that we have now, we may be going back a couple times.

[Andrew Gindy]

I love it. Special place. Yeah, a lot of fun.

[Andrew Kirsch]

It's pretty crisp.

[Andrew Gindy]

So what was interesting about that deal was it was off market, it was a special situation transaction. We created kind of a bespoke solution for the ownership group. And it was special real estate. Six acres on the beach, so to speak, on the mountain was really unique, but the cash flow was impaired for various reasons. And so we saw a lot of value, but it was cash flow poor. And so could we provide sort of a gap financing. And that's what we ultimately did. This problem exists everywhere. Multifamily, office, hotel, you name it. Every asset class has this problem. And that's because interest rates have gone up, leverage has come down and There needs to be a gap. So we're finding a lot of those opportunities elsewhere.

[Andrew Kirsch]

I mean since mid.

[Andrew Gindy]

That was our first deal.

[Andrew Kirsch]

That's. Congratulations. Look, since mid 22.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Everyone has talked about the tidal wave of distressed opportunities that we're gonna, we're gonna see. We've seen distressed opportunities specifically in office and maybe some other situations. Like what you just. Hotels for sure. It hasn't really come in multi. It hasn't really come in other asset classes. The going back to probably when you were starting. When was your first year at Walton Street?

[Andrew Gindy]

11.

[Andrew Kirsch]

11. Yeah. Okay.

[Andrew Gindy]

So coming out of the GFC.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yep. So that period from like 10, 11, 12. Every day I was inundated with loan portfolio acquisitions.

[Andrew Gindy]

I remember every week everyone sells and.

[Andrew Kirsch]

They would say hey Kirsch, we literally have like 24 hours to go non refundable to buy like 500 notes. You just got to do just some diligence just to make sure there's no nuclear missiles. And my clients were just like picking up these loan portfolios apes for.

[Andrew Gindy]

For cheap. Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Haven't seen that here. One off loan sales in office. Maybe a couple multi deals. So what's different today?

[Andrew Gindy]

Well, this is gonna, this is a longer cycle. It's a U. Right. Much deeper, longer U back then was a V. Right. And so you had banks just clearing out this credit left and right and taking the, the their lumps and moving on. This is just going to take longer. Which is why I'm so excited because this is a huge opportunity that's going to be here for years. It's just less vicious than what you're describing. I think that we are early innings in the distress cycle still. And I'll give you a reason or I'll give you a stat. What do you think the delinquency rate is in office for all loans or CMBS or. Yeah, sure. One in the same for office specific. Take a guess.

[Andrew Kirsch]

35%.

[Andrew Gindy]

No, you got a second guess because that's way off.

[Andrew Kirsch]

85%.

[Andrew Gindy]

10%. Oh, okay. 10%. I can't, I don't know that I could name 10 buildings that aren't impaired in like the city of Los Angeles, for example. So my. I think that that rate is going to go up at the levels I don't know about you but to 30% that could happen. It's possible. I.

[Andrew Kirsch]

We'll see.

[Andrew Gindy]

It depends. But ultimately that is indicative of early stage distress innings.

[Andrew Kirsch]

But we talk about impairment.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

And the issue that a lot of my clients are facing, maybe not in LA but in other markets where the office building is cash flowing and up and they're, and they're leasing and they're getting good rents, but when their loan comes due, they're asked because the value, the cap rates have, values are down 40%. Right. So I guess maybe I didn't understand your question because the impairment is pervasive, but the technical delinquency, you're right.

[Andrew Gindy]

If you have cash flow, you'll keep paying entry.

[Andrew Kirsch]

L A, downtown, L A, Portland, Seattle. Yeah. San Francisco back on the rise. We're seeing, you know, a DSCR issue.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah, you need a, for seller, you need a force lender for seller and you just, like I said, it hasn't been as vicious. But it will come. It will absolutely come. Absent some massive rent growth, demand recovery, it will come. It just takes time. And this is why we're so excited about what we're seeing. We are in active discussions about buying debt, providing debt. We just bought a multifamily property in Portland and the reason that we bought it is the seller had a low maturity, they didn't want to put new equity in and they took a significant loss from where their basis was, but they were okay moving on because it was small in the scheme of their portfolio.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So I love hearing that about Portland specifically because, you know, I help raise capital for clients of mine and I send you deals that you shit on all the time. But that's true. So sometimes I would say in the last 30 days I had multiple multi family opportunities in Seattle and Portland that I took to my capital providers. I probably went 0 for 30. All had the same response, no on the Pacific Northwest. Similar response if the asset was in la. No on la. Now all of these groups are, they have a herd mentality and then it takes private capital, entrepreneurial capital, who recognizes that it's just great value, great basis and that you're not concerned about being in a blue state, the ultimate blue city in a blue state.

[Andrew Gindy]

I think you have to look at the data. The headlines are misleading. You go to Portland today, you go walk around downtown. It's not that bad. It really is. It's not that significantly different than Chicago or than LA or other major CBDs around the country. There are certainly issues, no question, doesn't have the same demand growth as other markets like Austin or South Florida. But you know, price is what you pay, value is what you get. And so ultimately are you getting good value for what you're paying? We think so. We're getting 100 plus basis point cap rate premium to what we can get in other markets. And we have 100% leased assets. So I think you have to look beyond the headlines. There's actually positive population growth, believe it or not, in Portland, not negative. And I think things are turning. There's new governance there. We'll see. I think the same is true in San Francisco. The capital markets definitely have reacted to Laser Quick.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yep.

[Andrew Gindy]

And you've seen a lot of trades there recently. But you have to go a little bit against the grain sometimes, but it's hard.

[Andrew Kirsch]

These larger equity groups, they, they just cannot.

[Andrew Gindy]

Well, putting my private equity hat on from my prior life, it's always about marketing. Right. And, and about the next fund. And I think it's really challenging when you're taking your lumps in an asset class to go double down in your next fund. I think everyone goes through it because of what you're saying. It's just like the herd mentality and it's about marketing. But I think there's great, interesting buys out there if you're a little contrarian.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So I'm curious if what you're experiencing is similar to what we're experiencing at Slarkhurst in terms of the volume and activity of transactions. So 4Q24, we were really busy and then ended the year. And this was also, you know, we. The election occurred. Trump wins. Everyone is bullish about capital markets. And our November, December was extremely busy. Turn into 25, fires occurred. Now, that's a micro LA issue, but it does affect things because a lot of the players are in la. Trump announces tariffs. Even though we all knew that those were coming, I guess we were a little shocked, or the capital markets were shocked at the severity initially. And then I would say around.

[Andrew Gindy]

Late.

[Andrew Kirsch]

April, early May, in the last 60, 90 days, we have been as busy as we've been since 21, early 22 in those crazy 18 months. Curious if, if you're seeing the same thing of just the volume of transactions. I mean, you've seen my board. I mean, it's, we're, we're active. We, we are actively needing more attorneys to meet the demand of the transactional volume. I have not had to do that in over three years.

[Andrew Gindy]

There is an incredible buildup of deals that need to sell, whether it's in legacy funds, whether it's lenders that are taking over assets, owners that are impaired. There is just going to be a flood of deals. And the refinancing market is so strong right now and was up until liberation Day, that there's just a huge flood of deals either getting refi or will ultimately get sold. So I expect volume is going to continue to pick up. You have a lot of tailwinds. Short rates are going to go down. Supply is falling off a cliff. Demand is still steady. Cap rates probably have peaked. I think there's going to be a lot more deal flow. Everybody generally has capital. I talk to a lot of investors as we prepare to raise our own fund and everyone has capital. I think they're waiting for more distributions to then go recycle and reinvest. But there's no shortage of capital out there. It's the shortage of, of deals and deal flows anemic because people don't want to sell at these prices.

[Andrew Kirsch]

But rates haven't really changed over the last several months.

[Andrew Gindy]

No, but they're going to go down. I think that short rates will go down.

[Andrew Kirsch]

You talk to your friend Powell.

[Andrew Gindy]

I think that long rates will probably go up. If I had to guess. I think you're going to see a steeper curve and that's good for what we do. I think it's going to be harder for long term leased assets personally. But if you're growing cash flow and you have short rates and you're able to realize some noi growth, I think, I think it's good for real estate.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah. So when you're starting your company and you have to, you have obviously your reputation. Andrew Gindy is. As you walk around these streets of Century City and everyone stops and wants to talk to you because of the reputation that you've built and the brand that you built.

[Andrew Gindy]

Yeah.

[Andrew Kirsch]

But you still have to make. If you're doing deals with or when you're doing deals with brokers or doing deals with operators and sponsors, you need to get them to feel comfortable that Gimme is going to be there at the closing with the capital that he says, whether it's a broker or seller or an operator, you haven't formed the fund. Curious. Why do you feel like it wasn't necessary that your relationships of capital was so strong and your relationships with your counterparties were so strong that when you go into a sushi bar and you look at the sign of trust me, for the omakase, it's, it's a little bit like that.

[Andrew Gindy]

I think you got to take it very seriously and you can lose it in a heartbeat. I was just talking to my team about this yesterday. Reputation is everything. And again, I was pleasantly surprised by how people have treated me and my firm pre and post. Leaving my prior Position you have to perform, especially those early deals, may have to overpay a little bit too. As one of my favorite brokers said to me, he's like, I'm happy to sell you something. Just know you're going to pay the highest price.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Okay?

[Andrew Gindy]

And I said, yeah, I know. And so like in the, in the first deal, in the, in the deal in, in Colorado, very complicated, hundred million dollars, lots of different parties. We put it all together, we closed. Took a lot of hustle, a lot of perseverance and some, and some really strong relationships. So ultimately, you got to believe in yourself, you got to get it done, and you got to have these really, you know, really strong relationships. I think that the trust me factor is big. Yeah, I do. And I think that has to do with all the people we know in this business who want to do business with us.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah. All right, so my final question for you, now 36 years old, you're, you're. It's not, you're, you're not like me, who, by the way, this is my last, my last podcast in my 40s. I turned 50 next week, so it'll be published when I'm 50, but not bad, LJ. Not bad, not bad physical. Everything, everything looks, you look good. Thank you.

[Andrew Gindy]

Northwestern's finest.

[Andrew Kirsch]

So the question I have for you, 36 years old, you've been in the business, what, 14 years or so I'm sure you get, you have conversations with those that are coming out of college or maybe coming out of business school. And we're in an interesting market that we talked about. Where would you suggest a 22 year old Andrew Gindy graduating from Cornell? Of course, I'm sure the top of his class. Where should he start or she start in the real estate business? Is it brokerage, is it private equity, is it operator? What would it be?

[Andrew Gindy]

For me, I tried a bunch of different roles. Operations, lending at a bank, developer. I realized really quickly I wanted to be on the private equity side. That's why I was in private equity ever since I graduated. And so you got to try out different things, see what you like. But you have to follow your passion. I think passion is number one, your North Star and where you have to focus and where you gravitate to. That may sound cliche, but it's true. And so I was really passionate about the business, especially in private equity. Being the holder of the capital was the most interesting place to be for me around the table. But there's merit to all these different seats. But you have to figure out what you're passionate about. That's the most important thing.

[Andrew Kirsch]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, I appreciate you making the long trek to my office from next door. My pleasure. We have to do another lunch like we did. We finished 20. Oh, my God. Can you imagine how life threat was so different? Completely different in December 24th versus January 25th. But an epic lunch that we had with our good friend Schwartzman and I think was that Sam Aberbach, who was our. Yeah, but you're one of the. The pillars of our real estate LA community, and I'm just honored to have you on the show.

[Andrew Gindy]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrew Kirsch]

All right, man. All right. That's another episode of Real Talk.

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