Realfoodology Podcast: Are Vaccines ‘Safe & Effective’?

Guest: Aaron Siri (Managing Partner, Siri & Glimstad)
Host: Courtney Swan
Date: December 9, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between Courtney Swan and Aaron Siri, a high-profile legal advocate specializing in vaccine policy, civil rights, and informed consent. Drawing from his work deposing leading vaccinologists and litigating against federal agencies, Siri discusses the legal, scientific, and cultural complexities behind vaccine safety, clinical trial standards, and the powerful liability shields granted to pharmaceutical companies. The conversation aims to separate scientific evidence from dogma, encourage transparent debate, and empower parents and individuals to make informed decisions regarding vaccines.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aaron Siri’s Background and Legal Work

[05:43–09:59]

• Siri’s firm is the largest vaccine-focused law practice not representing pharma companies, handling cases in military, schools, universities, and with the vaccine-injured.
• He explains that most U.S. vaccine manufacturers have immunity from lawsuits:

  “It’s the only product in America where you cannot sue the manufacturer… you can bring a claim against the federal government, the very same department that claims it’s safe.” — Aaron Siri [05:54]

• Siri’s focus: protecting civil liberties and informed consent, challenging mandates, and restoring exemptions in states like Mississippi and California.

2. Vaccines as “Religion” vs. Evidence-Based Science

[13:41–17:56]

• Siri states that vaccine belief is increasingly faith-based rather than data-driven.
• When confronted with contrary data, experts often get defensive instead of reconsidering—indicating a dogmatic rather than scientific response.
• Notable quote:

  “It’s a religion…these are beliefs. When you confront the data, you get anger, defensiveness, not intellectual debate.” — Aaron Siri [15:51]

3. The Autism-Vaccine Evidence Debate

[18:53–26:28]

• Siri challenges the CDC’s categorical denial of a vaccine-autism link, describing lawsuits that forced CDC to provide studies. He claims the studies don’t support such absolute statements and that scientific rigor would require much better data.

• Notable quote:

  “They say vaccines don’t cause autism, but they don’t have studies to show it doesn't cause it; they just don’t have any studies.” — Aaron Siri [24:23]

• He highlights lack of comprehensive research on early childhood vaccines and autism, and recounts the Institute of Medicine reviewing 158 vaccine injury claims, concluding that for over 130, no adequate studies exist to rule out causality.

4. Clinical Trials and Safety Data Gaps

[30:23–34:53]

• Siri describes how some vaccines—such as Hepatitis B—were licensed for babies based on only a few days’ worth of safety monitoring, without proper control groups.
• He recounts deposing Dr. Stanley Plotkin, discovering even lead researchers appear unaware of the limited trial designs.
• Memorable moment:

  “If you go to the FDA website… you will see… Recombivax HB… monitored safety for five days after injection with 147 kids and no control group.” — Aaron Siri [32:05]

5. The Vaccine Liability Shield & Its Effects on Safety

[48:46–56:53]

• Siri explains the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 and how immunity removes manufacturers’ financial incentives to perform rigorous long-term safety studies.
• Products licensed post-1986 often follow minimal trial designs; vaccine schedules expanded from three to 29 injections by age one.
• Notable quote:

  “The only product in America… where the more safety [testing] they do, the less likely it is to be licensed.” — Aaron Siri [54:56]

• Analogizes the vaccine business model as guaranteed profit with minimal risk, creating a system susceptible to excess mandates and weak oversight.

6. Public Belief, Cognitive Dissonance, and Changing the Narrative

[60:05–64:38]

• Discusses how the “safe and effective” mantra is a form of cultural cognition; challenging it can cause cognitive dissonance.
• Notes how courtrooms and judges are increasingly open to revisiting assumptions about vaccine safety, a shift from when such skepticism was taboo.

7. Mandates, Exemptions, and What Parents Can Do

[65:10–68:55]

• Siri gives practical advice for parents in states with strict vaccine mandates (California, New York, Maine, Connecticut):
  • Homeschooling or forming co-op pods is sometimes the only option.
  • He and other advocates are actively litigating to restore or protect exemptions.

8. Measles, Cancer, and the Broader Picture of Infectious Disease

[70:39–79:17]

• Evaluates claims that vaccines eradicated diseases like measles—historical death rates had already declined by 98% before the vaccine was introduced.
• Discusses Japanese studies linking natural measles and mumps infection to dramatically lower rates of heart disease and some cancers.
• Notable quote:

  “800,000 Americans die a year from heart disease… after 20 years, there was a 20% decline in mortality from cardiovascular disease amongst those [who had] had measles and mumps.” — Aaron Siri [77:04]

• Suggests that preventing all infections may have unstudied long-term health consequences.

9. Chronic Disease in Children and Unstudied Risks

[84:13–87:49]

• Siri and Courtney discuss the exponential rise in chronic childhood illness (adverse immune conditions), questioning the role of multiple routine vaccinations.
• Argues that comparison studies of fully vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children are sorely lacking or suppressed.

10. Informed Consent as a Core Civil Right

[101:22–107:34]

• Stresses that the right to informed consent is as fundamental as freedom of speech or religion, and that even vaccine supporters should defend it.
• Notable quote:

  “Your body… is the commodity on which pharma makes its profits. The more they control that commodity… the more money they make.” — Aaron Siri [103:19]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I support your right [to get any vaccine]. That’s what freedom is.” — Aaron Siri [07:33]
• “When you confront these people with the data… you get anger, defensiveness, demonization, pejoratives, personal attacks…That’s why I call it a religion.” — Aaron Siri [15:51]
• “They say vaccines don’t cause autism. They…don’t have any studies… So they will say it doesn’t cause autism.” — Aaron Siri [24:23]
• “If vaccines are so safe and effective, then why do they need immunity?” — Aaron Siri [69:27]
• On the “safe and effective” mantra:
  “It’s like a spell at this point.” — Courtney Swan [61:22]
• “Those who have had measles have a statistically significant reduction in Hodgkin’s and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.” — Aaron Siri [78:05]
• “Giving people rights does not mean everyone’s gonna stop vaccinating. That’s a myth.” — Aaron Siri [105:10]
• “The right to informed consent is so critically important—I put it on par with freedom of speech…and religion.” — Aaron Siri [101:36]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:43–09:59] Aaron Siri’s background and law firm’s scope
• [13:41–17:56] Vaccines as belief system & emotional response to data
• [18:53–26:28] The vaccine-autism debate & lack of studies
• [30:23–34:53] FDA trial data gaps (Hep B example)
• [48:46–56:53] Legal immunity, incentives, and expansion of the schedule
• [64:38–68:55] Options for parents: mandates & state-by-state variation
• [70:39–79:17] Did vaccines eradicate measles? Long-term health consequences
• [84:13–87:49] Rise in chronic disease and need for more research
• [101:22–107:34] Informed consent as fundamental freedom

Resource Links (as discussed in episode)

• Aaron Siri’s Book: Vaccines. Amen (find on Amazon)
• ICAN (Informed Consent Action Network): https://icandecide.org/
• ICAN Legislate (Medical Liberty Pledge): https://icanlegislate.org/
• Aaron Siri’s Law Firm: https://sirillp.com/
• Aaron Siri on X (Twitter): @AaronSiriSG
• AaronSiriOfficial.com

Conclusion/Takeaway

This episode urges critical thinking and transparency in the vaccine debate, advocating for robust scientific inquiry, open legal recourse, and the preservation of civil liberties—regardless of one’s stance on vaccination. Both the host and guest stress the importance of informed consent and challenge listeners to investigate claims rather than relying on cultural or emotional beliefs.

[End of Summary]