Courtney (4:16)

Kyle, thank you so much for coming on the Real Foodology podcast.

Kyle Ponton (4:19)

Thank you for having me Courtney. Happy to be here.

Courtney (4:22)

I'm so excited. So I have never done a podcast on cold plunging, so when we started chatting I was like I have to get you on the podcast. We need to do just a 101, everything that people need to know about cold plunging. I tried to compile all of the questions that I get from people in my DMs and also just personal questions that I had because I'm really getting into cold plunging. And there's some of it that I understand, but there's also some that I don't understand. Sure. So let's start first with the real basics. What is cold plunging and is it different from other cold exposure practices like hyperbaric? No, it's not hyperbaric. What's the one where you go in the cryotherapy?

Kyle Ponton (4:57)

Yep, yep, exactly. So cold plunging kind of got its, its name or its term really. Only lately, the past five, six years or so. I think traditionally people look at it as like ice bath, which is really just getting into cold water. So if we're getting into cold water, it's either getting into with ice. You know, for us, we call it cold plunging typically because it has a regulated kind of dedicated machine that's keeping the water cold. The key difference though between cold plunging and cryotherapies is really air versus water. And water I think is like 20 to 25 times more thermogenic than air. And so really what that means is, you know, if you were to walk outside, right, and go into 38, 39, 40 degree weather, you'd be like, oh, it's kind of cold outside. Or if you get into 39, 40 degree cold plunge, you are really, really cold. And so it actually the sensations are much more potent when you're getting into a cold plunge, which is why I think it's really kind of grabbed along the way. It has. And it's really taken off because the feeling is instantaneous when you get in.

Courtney (5:54)

Yeah, and that makes sense because just even in my own life I've noticed the difference of like, I used to live in Chicago and I feel like the, the frigidness in Chicago just walking around versus like when I get into like a really cold, cold plunge. I'm like, it's different. God, it's so different. It's like nuts and I can feel it. So what are the benefits of cold plunging? So if somebody's really new to this and they're thinking this sounds insane, why would I go get in like 35 degree water and sit there for five minutes?

Kyle Ponton (6:22)

Yeah, well, you do have to be a little bit crazy to put that out there. So that's, that's fair. But I think generally speaking there's really a lot of benefits, the ones that get talked about the most are, you know, recovery. Recovery is really where it got its start. So if. If you go back and look at all the big athletics, college universities, the NFL, these kind of big sports, cold plunging has been around for a long time simply because it's one of the only tools that can get you almost instant recovery. And it's just so incredible for the muscles, for inflammation, things like that. So recovery is really a huge one. Inflammation is a second one. So not just for the purposes of recovery in an athletic environment, but also just your everyday stuff. Right. I think we, you know, you're big on, you know, the food sourcing and where all the food's coming from. And inflammation, I think, is a key part of why a lot of our health issues come from today. So whether it be, you know, gut issues or just really anything, inflammation really is at the core of that. And so cold plunging is something where you're getting your entire body into cold water. So, I mean, just like you'd get an ice pack as a kid and put it onto your knee or toe or whatever. It's the same kind of concept where it's reducing inflammation significantly. And then there's mental toughness and really kind of a dopamine and adrenaline release when you jump right into the cold plunge immediately, which really has got a wide range of benefits around there. But, yeah, mental toughness and really just that alertness, almost like a coffee times 10. You come out of there, I say it's like legal cocaine, because you come out of there just feeling absolutely incredible, but you don't have any of the downsides that come along with all that stuff.

Courtney (7:56)

Yeah, it's so true.

Courtney (7:57)

I actually remember a couple years ago when I was. I used to travel with Tovlo, who's like this Swedish pop star, and we spent a lot of time in Sweden, and we got this house in the Swedish fjord, which is like islands, like, off of Sweden.

Kyle Ponton (8:10)

That's sick.

Courtney (8:11)

It was so amazing. And there's this whole, like, sauna and, like, getting in the lake culture that they have over there. And we would get in the sauna in the morning, and then we would go and jump in the lake, and it was like, frigid. I don't know that it was like cold plunge, frigid. But I remember, like, every single morning on that trip, we would run down the dock, jump in the water, and it felt like I had coffee. Like, it's like legal cocaine, like you said.

Kyle Ponton (8:35)

It really is. It wakes you up so fast.

Courtney (8:37)

So Fast. And I remember feeling so amazing. Like, we would just jump in, and it was cold enough that we were like, oh, my God, I have to.

Kyle Ponton (8:42)

Get out of this.

Courtney (8:42)

Like, I'm freezing. But it was perfect. And I remember, like, after that, tripping, like, I need to start doing this every day, because I felt a different sort of, like, mental alertness. I didn't feel like I needed coffee. I had this, like, natural energy.

Kyle Ponton (8:54)

And.

Courtney (8:54)

And it's not like a jittery energy that you get, like, from coffee.

Kyle Ponton (8:58)

No, it's not. Yeah, it's. It's sustained. Right. And so, I mean, for me, for most people, last anywhere from, like, two to, like, four hours or so. Like, that almost like, alertness similar to, like, a coffee would. Yeah. But you don't have a crash. There's no, like, you know, you don't feel the jitteriness. You're not coming down off of it. It's almost just kind of like a plane landing in a sense, where you're just coming down. So it's. It's. It's really amazing. And that's why, for me, even two people talk about when should you do it? And, like, stuff like that. And personally, which everyone has their times of when you really want to do cold plunging. But the morning is the best for me because it's just like, I do it. It's out of the way. It's a really hard thing to do. And so for me, doing a very tough thing to do in the morning kind of eliminates that from my day. And so it's like, all right, if I can cold plunge, get in this stinking cold water, because it's always hard every single time, you know, then it gives me that encouragement to go out there and win the day in a sense where it's like, I've already gotten it over with, so. And it's just like, it's done. You know, you already did it. Right. And so, you know, that's what I do. I like to do in the morning.

Courtney (9:52)

Yeah. It's not this thing that's, like, looming over you. Because I see this all the time that, you know, people say, like, get through your hard tasks and the things that you don't want to do first.

Kyle Ponton (10:01)

Yes.

Courtney (10:01)

Because then otherwise it's just looming over you all day, and then you just keep procrastinating, procrastinating it. And then it ends up being, like, the last thing you do at the very end of the night. But also, too, the cold plunge. It's like you do that first thing in the morning. And then what we keep saying is, like, you wake up and you know.

Courtney (10:14)

It wakes you up, you're alert, energized, you feel alert, your brain works better, you're alert.

Courtney (10:18)

And the mental toughness thing, I wanna touch on that for a second too, because I think this is really amazing. I hear Joe Rogan talk about this a lot, where he says that he feels like he's similarly kinda to what you said, where once he forces himself to do that, then things are a lot easier throughout the day. Cause he's like, well, I already did the hardest thing. And it's also a really good practice of holding yourself accountable. Cause I'm a firm believer in always doing things that challenge you, doing things that scare you. Cause I think that it's very good for our brains and it's really good for self confidence. Because you tell yourself, like, oh, I did this really hard thing this morning. And it's funny because it sounds like we're like really building this up. But if you have never done a cold plunge before, it's hard. It actually is really hard. It's hard to get yourself in that mindset of being like, okay, okay, I'm gonna get in there, I'm gonna do it. And then after you do it, you feel so amazing and accomplished.

Kyle Ponton (11:08)

And I think one of the things that doesn't get talked about a lot is that people think that cold punching gets easier. And generally speaking, yeah, there are some things about it that does get easier. I think the main thing is just like in anything in life, if you do something that's very hard, if you're a competitive athlete, right? If you're a business owner, if you are a mom, if you are doing these certain things, doing hard things is hard. But the more you do them, the easier it gets, the faster you can make that decision to do it. But with cold plunging specifically for me, who has been doing it now for years, it still sucks. It's never the most exciting thing. When I get up to get into the cold plunge, I still have that voice inside of my head, head that's like, ugh, really don't want to do this right now. I've just gotten better at kind of shutting that voice down faster and making the quick decision to get in, which leads into the rest of your day and how you make other tough decisions and hard decisions, you can make them faster.

Courtney (12:00)

Yeah, that's so true. So speaking of that toughness where you're like, oh, I really want to do this. So something that even when I'm in the cold plunge, then I still struggle to do. And I see a lot of my friends do this where they get in and they will dunk fully under.

Courtney (12:14)

Are there.

Courtney (12:15)

Are there extra benefits to doing that, or do you still get a lot of the benefits of just like, like, if I'm being honest, when I'm in there, I'm like this, and I'm like, oh, okay. And I have a really hard time. I usually don't dunk because I can't even get myself to do it if I'm being honest.

Kyle Ponton (12:27)

So there is. Yeah. So we have our vagus nerve, which is located right about here. If you're listening to some audio, it's. It's. It's about where the neck is. And if you can get your neck up to your neck, which is a part of the reason why we designed ours in a vertical, you know, standing format, so it's a little bit easier to get to that, then you're really going to activate a lot of the different benefits that. That we just talked about. So a lot more the inflammation, a lot more that fight or flight response that you get to. But one of the really cool things is that if you can actually get your whole head underneath, what I've found is that it actually gets you to that parasympathetic state faster. And so you get in there and you have that fight or flight response where you're looking for your breath. You're kind of freaking out. You're kind of trying to find the breath as fast as you can. But then pretty shortly after that, you get to a calm state. And so if you put your head under, it actually gets you there much quicker. And so it's a little bit more challenging on the front end. But then if you leave your body up, it's just. It's almost. It's almost more challenging for your body to fully understand how to get there. You know, it's almost like, you know, you get all the way in, it just kind of dunks it. It gets over with, and then your body kicks into the parasympathetic state faster. So for me, I've actually found I dunk immediately when I go in. First thing is when I get in, I go dunk, and then I'll sit in there for about three to four minutes, and then as soon as I'm done, I'll actually dunk again.

Courtney (13:45)

Wow.

Courtney (13:45)

Okay.

Courtney (13:46)

I've never heard this, so I'm so glad that I asked that. And you brought up a great point, too. What I found so there's different cold plunges. And this is why I really love the shape of yours. Because I've also done the bathtub ones and like, no shade to them, but I just personally, one, I'm really tall and just when you're laying like this and you're like floating, I find it a lot harder to fully go under versus when it's in that kind of standing position. It's so much easier to just go like this.

Kyle Ponton (14:12)

Yes.

Courtney (14:13)

And so that is something that I find because, wow, that's so fascinating also what you just said about the parasympathetic. Because I've noticed when I just go in like this and I don't get my head in, I have that really intense fight or flight where I'm having to, like, breathe through it. Versus I was thinking about, like, when I was jumping in the lake every day and it was really frigid. Like, I didn't have that same, like, oh, my God, oh my God, oh my God. Like, I have to get out. Like, there was still this, like, okay, I need to get out in a second. But there wasn't that, like, really intense. And it was probably because we were under all the way.

Kyle Ponton (14:41)

Yes. You got to that calm state faster. You got to that concept faster. And then vertical or like even in a lake would be similar to this. Right. But when you're in a vertical cold plunge, which is again, really, one of the big reasons we did it that way is because you get access to the breath fast. So when you get into a lay down, when people don't understand is you're, you know, you're closing up your legs, right. When you lay your legs out, you're kind of, you know, putting your legs up and you're kind of shortening your breath, right. So your diaphragm is up. And so it's. It's harder to really take that deep breath, Right. If you've ever stood up and taken a deep breath and then sit on the floor and put your legs down and take a deep breath, notice the difference in the limitations that come in with that. And so in a vertical cold plunge, you get that capacity immediately. And really the goal is, you know, you're going to get into that fight or flight state when you first get into. And honestly, the goal is how quickly can you get out of that? And for a lot of different reasons, which I'm sure we'll get into, but that is really kind of ultimately the goal is how quickly can you get out of that fight or flight response state. And so being able to get access to the breath as fast as that and kind of having your chest upright is. It's a game changer. It really is a game changer. It's huge.

Courtney (15:46)

Okay. Wow. Well, and, you know, getting out of the fight or flight thing is something that was a friend of mine actually coached me through, because when I first started learning about cold plunging and the benefits out of it, I just kind of, like, didn't really get any tips or tricks and was just, like, doing it just like, okay, I'm just gonna go in here. And no one had really given me any advice, which is also why I'm so glad that we're doing this, because I wanted to go through all everything so we could really make it as valuable and hopefully, like, as easy for people as possible, and they could really understand, like, why they want to do it and what they should do to support themselves.

Kyle Ponton (16:18)

Absolutely.

Courtney (16:19)

And one of the things is I was on a trip with a friend maybe, like, two years ago, and we were doing, like, cold therapy, which is like, you know, sauna, cold plunge, and, you know, this. But just so people know if. If they don't know what that is, it's like you go and you get in the sauna, and then you go to the cold plunge, and you'll kind of do it, like, back and forth a few times. And we were at this resort that had it, and so we were sauna, and then we would get in the cold plunge and. And the first time we get in there, I mean, I'm just in there like, oh, my God. You know, and he. He, like, makes eye contact with me, and he's like, no. And he started, like, coaching me through the breathing. And I had never had an experience like that in a cold plunge before, and it was night and day difference.

Courtney (16:54)

So let's talk about that.

Courtney (16:55)

What is that practice and why does that help you?

Kyle Ponton (16:58)

Yeah, so I think, you know, one of the things is really stress management and how your ability is to deal with stress on a daily basis. And so we already have enough stuff going on in our daily lives. Enough stress, enough chaos, enough toxins in our food and environment, and all this stuff that's coming after us. And so I think the more that you're really able to do things like this that are able to get you to really manage that better are going to make your life just so much better. And that's one of the big things that doesn't really get talked a lot with cold punching, but I call it, like, stress management because essentially you're putting yourself into almost a forced fight or flight environment, which is very different than, you know, maybe being in one, in a more actual real significant danger, you know, position. You're putting yourself in a controlled fight or flight response. And so when you do that, you're, you're not only going into the fight or flight response, but as we talked about, you're going into the parasympathetic response. And so you're going into that calm response after. So you're training your body and your mind that you can do that, that you can get on the other side of this calm, peaceful state. And I think that's very important because if you, you know, make decisions from a very stressful state, if you have a hard time, you know, managing stress, or like I always like to say, like, you know, leaders are really good at kind of bringing down the temperature. And so if you got a level 6, 7 or 8 problem as a leader, as a mom, as someone, as someone who's really attacking their day, your job is to try to bring down the temperature, try to control that in a sense where, okay, what's really happening here? How do we get to a solution? Right? How do we not make this problem worse? And I think doing cold plunging, believe it or not, really helps you kind of manage that stress. It helps you understand that, like, hey, I can get down to this calm part faster because you've done it now so many times. Your body has gone super high and then it's gone in the back end to the calm. And so training your mind, training your body and training your soul almost to get there is just, I mean, it's, it's, it's incredible.

Courtney (18:58)

That's amazing. So I'm wondering if there's any sort of. And I don't know if you know this, but, you know, meditation I think is really good with that too. I'm wondering if there's some benefits that you get from cold plunging and learning how to do that breathing experience or the breathing technique that, like, maybe there's similar things that you get from meditation because it sounds kind of meditative a little bit.

Kyle Ponton (19:17)

It does, yeah. Yeah, it does. I don't know. You know, there's a lot of the cool thing about cold plunging now too is that now that it's becoming so much more popular, I think there are. So there's so much more attention and resources going into the studies and going into the development of these things. Yeah, you know, there's just, there's stuff going on, you know, increasingly every single year. You know, if you pull up all the cold point studies, it's just more and more and more research and more and more funding going behind it. So I think it's interesting to see. We'll see. You know, there's real specific, nuanced things that are going on. There's more general stuff. There's stuff about women, there's stuff about men, there's stuff about pregnancies, there's stuff about really, you know, across the board, A to Z. So I think we'll learn a lot more around the science behind it. But I'm a big believer too. And just like, you know, I talk about this with my friends a lot, but sometimes there's like, people have those intuitive things and there's not always the science that's there yet. Right. And with cold plunging, thankfully there is a lot of great science and there will be a lot more. But I think, you know, like, for me as an example, or like my wife or my friends, I've never met somebody who's, who's really started to actually cold plunge often daily and make it a part of their routine and not start seeing all these benefits. So it's like, you know, yes, we want to see that data. That data is so helpful and important, but it's one of those things too that it's like, it works. It really does work.

Courtney (20:33)

Yeah, yeah. And like you said, there is a ton of science and research and we'll only have more of it. But it is interesting how there's a doctor that I follow and he says this all the time and he's like, logic is fast, science is slow.

Kyle Ponton (20:44)

Yes.

Courtney (20:45)

And on average it takes about 17 years for the research to catch up with things that we already just logically.

Courtney (20:51)

Know to be true.

Courtney (20:51)

You know, and so, and it's not to say that like, we shouldn't be following science and data and that it's not important, but it's just that we also have to leave room for common sense and also leave room for knowing that, like, if things are helping and benefiting a lot of people, that there probably is some sort of science behind that and we're just waiting for the science to back it up.

Kyle Ponton (21:08)

Correct. Just like you said, that's logic. That's just like anything in life.

Courtney (21:12)

Exactly.

Kyle Ponton (21:12)

Yeah.

Courtney (21:12)

Yeah. So you mentioned pregnancy and I also want to talk about it from the lens of women, but just in general who can benefit from cold plunging. And there are certain groups that should be avoiding it, like pregnancy, for example.

Kyle Ponton (21:25)

It's a great question. Again, I think it goes into a lot of the science and like that science is really catching up on stuff. There's a lot of stuff that's, that is being done right now around women, around their cycles, pregnancy, things of that nature. There's nothing concrete enough out there really to say yes or no and I can't get pregnant and I'm not pregnant, so I can't tell you the exact.

Courtney (21:47)

What.

Kyle Ponton (21:48)

Yeah. Intuitiveness on what that is. I will say that I think there's two sides of it. There's actually, there's a girl out there, I can't remember her name now, but she has been a huge goalpuncher for years. And she's a younger girl, she's probably 25, 26, and she's been cold plunging through her whole pregnancy. And half the comments are like, you're insane. This is child abuse. You're insane. And now the other half of the comments are like, wow, what an incredible thing to do, you know, for your body and to be able to build that resilience throughout pregnancy. So, you know, not knowing enough about it, I'd be hesitant to actually say, hey, this is a good thing to do. Yeah. But I think when it comes to women and really being careful around cycles, I think it, it's, it's, it's logic. Right. I mean, you know, you want to, you want to react to what your body's telling you. And I think that's really important and really like, and you know, you got to be intuitive to what your body's telling you. My wife as an example, she, she works with a coach and he's actually been telling her more and more often to cold points lately, which has been good because I've been telling her for years and she's, she's not fully, fully come around. And now she's got this coach that's really, actually advising her to cold point specifically because she has high cortisol. And so she is looking for anything she can really do to reduce that cortisol. And so going back to that kind of fight or flight and getting onto that parasympathetic state is incredible for lowering the cortisol over a long period of time. And so she's now starting to cold plunge a lot more and just kind of is careful around it with her cycle. So she's in that particular phase where she shouldn't be doing it. She's a little bit more just not feeling it. That's probably something you should listen to. You don't want to put your body through more Stress during those phases. It's probably not the smartest thing.

Courtney (23:26)

Part of. So what I do is I practice it very intuitively. And so my thing is. And I feel this way about everything. Every advice that you get, there's some advice that people say like, oh, you should only do this during this part of your phase of your cycle, and you should avoid this during these times. And there's sometimes where I'm like, that's not accurate for me. That actually feels the exact opposite for me. So it's just a good reminder for. It's great to take advice from experts, and I always do that. But I always believe in. At the end of the day, you've really got to just check in with your body and yourself and see how you feel. And so that's the same thing that I do with cold plunging, where I'm like, okay, there's some days where, like, I'll get in and I'm like, oh, my body is literally like, this is not okay.

Kyle Ponton (24:10)

Yeah.

Courtney (24:10)

And then there's other times where I'm like, oh, I just need to, like, fight through this. And, like, I'm good and I'm strong. And like you said, it's a great way to, like, build that resilience, build that strength in your mind. But then also recognize and know that there are times when you actually shouldn't be pushing your body 110%.

Kyle Ponton (24:25)

And you know that. I mean, you know that your body knows that. You listen to your body. I mean, you know, use logic here.

Courtney (24:32)

Exactly.

Courtney (24:33)

I'm always a huge proponent for not guessing, always testing.

Kyle Ponton (24:37)

Love it.

Courtney (24:37)

And so, like, staying on top of your hormones, your lab work, like, watch how things look on your lab work. And if you're doing a ton of cold plunging and you're doing a ton of other things and realizing that your lab work is going really south, then that's a time to readjust. And this is again, it's like, you just need to. You need to know what's going on in your body and really listen to your intuition and also look at your lab work and just adjust accordingly. And that's really how I face all of this stuff. And I really wanted to talk about it because there's so much mixed messaging online where I hear a lot of, oh, my God, this is so bad for women. Like, don't do this at all. And then I hear on the opposite spectrum. Oh, it's amazing for women. It's so good for their hormones. And, you know, and so there's always just like, this mixed Messaging. And so I always like to just bring it back to like, get in tune with your body, see what feels good for you.

Kyle Ponton (25:24)

Yes.

Courtney (25:24)

See what's happening with your blood work and then you do what is best for your body and your health.

Kyle Ponton (25:28)

100%. I don't think you could have said any better.

Courtney (25:31)

Amazing.

Courtney (25:32)

So are there any other groups that should avoid it? Like, is there anybody?

Courtney (25:35)

Like I hear sometimes, like, if, if somebody has a thyroid issue, it may not be best to do it correct.

Kyle Ponton (25:41)

If someone has a thyroid issue. I think I would also, you know, again, not a doctor, not giving medical advice. But I think like with anything else, a lot of these issues are more symptoms of probably other issues. And so sometimes even like with thyroid issues as an example, my wife has had thyroid issues. I know a lot of other people who've had thyroid issues. I've seen that really not be like the thyroid issue being more kind of like the symptom that's showing up versus really what's going on. And so I've seen a lot of people really not have those issues or being able to still cold plunge very, very frequently while they're kind of figuring that out or while they're doing tests while they're kind of working through that issue. However, I think people with any pre existing, you know, heart conditions, afib, you know, seizures, epilepsy, Epilepsy, stuff like that, I think you want to be, you know, probably very mindful of that. Don't think you should always avoid it. I think you should still, you know, again, listen to your body, go consult your doctor, of course, and like, figure that out and see if it is. But yeah, I mean, you want to be, like I said, use logic. If that's something that, you know, if you're putting yourself into a fight or flight response state every single day is, and you have, you know, severe heart condition, then it's probably wise to for sure slow roll into that. You know, start very, very high temperatures or not do it right. Or start with cold showers. Kind of slow roll your way into that.

Courtney (27:04)

Yeah, for sure.

Courtney (27:05)

No, I think that's really smart. And you know, we, we hear a lot when it comes to cold plunging. People timing themselves and they're like, I, I try to get to three minutes or I try to get to five minutes. Is there a benefit time window that's really good for people to kind of go for?

Kyle Ponton (27:21)

So our close mutual friend Gary Breca, he's the one who I've really kind of learned actually a lot about the science and data behind Cold plunging, he says three minutes minimum, six minutes maximum.

Courtney (27:33)

Okay.

Kyle Ponton (27:33)

One of the really cool and definitive things that we have found through the science behind cold plunging is that there is a massive drop off on the benefits past six minutes. And so at that point you're really just in it for, you know, kind of your own ego at that point I would say, you know, we do a lot of these events and community things and one of the things we often see is people doing these challenges and who can stay in longer. And I'm all for competition, but I think when it comes to cold plunging, there's really virtually zero benefits past that six minute marker. And so, you know, if you want to do it once or, and prove to yourself you can do it for a certain amount of time, I get that. I've done that before. I did that early on in my cold pointers journey. I would get into for 20 minutes and whatever, but there's just no benefit to it. And so, yeah, three minutes minimum, six minutes maximum. And then when it comes to temperature, you know, another thing about temperature that people often misunderstand is that really all the studies, a lot of the data has been all around about that 50 degree marker. And so you don't need to be a lot colder than that. 50 degrees is perfectly fine for a cold plunge. I would say even 55, 59 is a great place to start, you know, when you're cold plunging, just getting into it, starting a little bit warmer. I do mine at about 46, 47 degrees every single day for the most part. And that seems to be my place where I feel like I'm pushing myself just enough, where it's not like easy for me, but I'm still gaining all those benefits. And so yeah, I think temperature, 50 degree time, three minutes minimum, six minutes maximum. And it's pretty definitive.

Courtney (29:10)

I started taking something last year that was really helping me out with my workouts.

Courtney (29:14)

So if you guys have been listening.

Courtney (29:16)

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Courtney (31:54)

Benefits if you don't do three minutes? Because I've noticed like exactly what we just were talking about a second ago where like I really, I listen to my body and I'm, I'm really trying hard to like, I find the line of like intuition versus like okay, I'm just kind of being a little bitch right now and, like, not wanting to do it. But there are really. I have noticed, like, at certain points in my cycle where I just. My body, like, has way less of a threshold.

Kyle Ponton (32:18)

Yeah.

Courtney (32:19)

I also admittedly am working on that resilience that Kayla was talking about and you've talked about as well, is something.

Courtney (32:25)

Called your HRV numbers.

Courtney (32:27)

And my HRV is actually. It's been really, really low for years. And I've been actively trying to bring it up. And I think one of the ways you do it is like, through cold plunge.

Kyle Ponton (32:33)

Yes.

Courtney (32:34)

But in that, in. In my. My journey of, like, trying to find where I'm challenging myself, but also, like, listening to my body. There's been days where like this weekend we were cold plunging and sauna ing on my Bachelorette, and I was hitting points where after like a minute and a half, I was like, I just. My body is, like, not really into this right now. Do you still get any benefits from it or.

Kyle Ponton (32:54)

Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, even going back to what we were talking about earlier, that flight or that fight or flight response rate, that typically goes away anywhere from 45 seconds to like 90 seconds in. And so you're getting a lot of the initial benefits that come with that. So, like, all the mental clarity benefits, I mean, even sometimes throughout our office, you know, during the day, I don't want to take my clothes off. I don't want to hop into a bathing suit. We're busy, we have meetings going. I just go stick my head in there for. For 15, 20 seconds.

Courtney (33:21)

Yes.

Kyle Ponton (33:22)

Because I get jolted. It wakes me up immediately. And so, no, there's absolutely benefits to doing it shorter. Another interesting thing too, that again, I learned from Gary that he talks about this a lot because he starts doing in his practice is about an hour before bed, if you can, and you have access. It is incredible for sleep to do a cold plunge. If anyone who has a whoop or aura and they get into a cold plunge, you'll see your heart rate actually drops pretty significantly. For some people, it gets out into the 40s, usually in the 50s or low 60s, which is amazing to do for sleep. And you're also dropping your core body temperature, which typically happens when you go to sleep as well. And so it's also easier to fall asleep when your core body temperature is a little bit lower. And so when he does his in the evening or at nighttime, he does it for only about 60 seconds. So it's really just to get that core body temperature lower. Drop that heart rate and that's it. He's not in there in the evenings for necessarily recovery or for the inflammation reduction or for the things that come from staying in longer. He's really just in there for those two things, which I think can be amazing for sleep.

Courtney (34:29)

That's amazing. Okay, I'm actually gonna start trying to do that. Cause I'm really. I'm doing all these things right now trying to bring my HRV up and I'm seeing it go up a little bit, which is really cool. Oh, that's so awesome. Okay, if somebody has never cold plunged or they're very, very, very new to this, how can they build a consistent cold plunge routine? And what are some common mistakes that they could avoid?

Kyle Ponton (34:50)

Yeah, well, I think if you're just getting into cold plunge number one, you know, you don't have to buy, you know, our equipment as an example. You don't have to buy an expensive cold plunge. There's so many different ways you can get started. The first one is really just cold showers. You know, if you're in an environment where your temperature is cold enough out of the tap, you know, 50 60s, sometimes even 65 degrees can be very cold for a cold shower.

Courtney (35:13)

Hopefully there's a filter on that tap.

Kyle Ponton (35:15)

Hopefully there's a filter on that tap. Yes.

Courtney (35:18)

Shower. Shower filter is very important anyways. Continue.

Kyle Ponton (35:20)

Very much so. And another way too is, you know, because cold plunging is becoming so much more popular. Even. Even our company, we sell a lot to different commercial facilities. So gyms, yoga studios, wellness centers, things like that, that are really providing a lot more accessibility to these things. If you don't have one at your house or maybe you don't have the space for one. Right. It's just not really doable and for where you're at. So I think getting started, there's a lot of different ways, but it's just like anything else. It's a habit. And so, you know, accountability is huge. You know, I have this one customer of ours who I absolutely love. He's a successful guy and he. He runs multiple companies and he has essentially started cold plunging about just over a year ago. Saw the benefits right out of the gate, was doing it for 30 days, got obsessed with it, and really kind of going back to that stress management concept we talked about, that was one of the things we've talked about with this customer, is that you're dealing with so much stuff throughout the day that it's one of those things that's really helped being able to just manage Problems better. And you really go about the problems in a much more, just more calmer, more controlled way. And so about 30 days into it, he called me back up and he bought six for all of his key kind of executive guys. And now they have a group chat where they do it every single weekday. And it's an accountability thing. And so I think just like anything else, accountability is one of the best tools out there to start a habit or to get anything going. And so, yeah, accountability. And if you can't do a cold plunge, then start, like I said, with a cold shower. You know, sometimes a cold shower doesn't get you all the same, you know, benefits as maybe a full immersion, but it definitely gets you a lot of the mental benefits. So talking about like that kind of the mental cuteness, that clarity, that alertness that you're looking for out of a cold plunge, those happen in a cold shower. And it's some of the best ways to start.

Courtney (37:11)

Yeah, I mean, that's so true. I have a girlfriend who has started doing just cold showers every morning. And she said, oh my God, the benefits of it. She was like, I mentally feel it when I don't do it versus when I do do it. Like she really does see a difference.

Kyle Ponton (37:23)

It's amazing.

Courtney (37:24)

Yeah, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Cause that is something that I wanted to address because I know, and I just want to speak to the audience for a second that I know, you know, we have differing budgets and accessibility and I just want to make sure that we have other opt options to give people because I know not everybody can afford a cold plunge. And I get that. And I don't want there to be this barrier of entry. Another thing that I was thinking about too, because we don't have access to a sauna. Right. Or we don't have a sauna physically in our house right now because we're waiting until we move to get one. And so my fiance and I have just been going on class pass and finding saunas.

Kyle Ponton (37:57)

Great point.

Courtney (37:57)

And I imagine that you could probably do that with cold plunges too. I haven't even looked yet, but I'm like, I bet you could find them on class pass.

Kyle Ponton (38:03)

Yes.

Courtney (38:04)

I know a lot of the higher level gyms, if you can afford like a gym membership, I feel like a lot of them are starting to do that. I'm starting to stay at hotels that have cold plunges and stuff, which is really cool. So I don't know if resort pass would have it. And then another thing too When I was in la, there was a club that I actually had joined for a while and we would meet every, I think it was Wednesday morning, every Wednesday morning on the beach. And we would bring like dollies and just, we would get like. They basically bought these like huge plastic tubs at like Walmart. And I imagine they were probably like maybe 50 bucks.

Kyle Ponton (38:38)

Yeah.

Courtney (38:39)

And then we got a big, like couple big bags of ice and then we just put ocean water in there and we were cold plunging in that with the ice. So now granted, having to bring ice bags to your house every day, it's gonna be a little annoying.

Kyle Ponton (38:51)

Yeah.

Courtney (38:51)

But you can do it.

Courtney (38:52)

You can go get like a trough, thousands of plastic tub from Walmart or Target for maybe like 50 to 100 bucks and dump ice bags.

Kyle Ponton (39:00)

Yep, 100. One of the other things, you know, we mentioned, like being able to get them at hotels or gyms or, you know, class pass and those kinds of things, which is really great and super accessible. But another really cool way if you're in, you know, one of these bigger major cities is we actually partner with a brand called Coffee and Chill. And Coffee and Chill, if you haven't heard of them before or haven't seen them before on Instagram, they are an incredible movement and incredible brand that essentially host typically, typically every other week an event in a lot of the big major cities. And it's really just exactly what it sounds like. It's coffee and cold plunges and it's usually anywhere from 500 to a thousand people coming together. And it's an absolutely an insane energy. We sponsor pretty much all the events nationwide. They're in Miami, Austin, New York, and they also have them in LA and San Diego and soon to be potentially international as well. And so I think, yeah, it's just if you, if you're in one of the cities and you want to go check out an amazing event and you want a cold plunge, it is an absolute blast of a time and you can start getting in cold plunge. And we were just chatting about this earlier, but you know, being able to go cold plunge if you're, if you're, if you're fearful of it, if you are, are worried about whether, how long you can stay in, there's nothing better than being able to cold plunge with 5, 6, 7, 8 other people right next to you. And we have these big, big, big party plunges that we, that, you know, people get into. And it's just such an incredible experience. So it really allows you to stay in there longer, builds that Community builds that camaraderie. So if you're, if you're in one of those major cities and those major markets, definitely go check out a coffee and chill.

Courtney (40:34)

I know Hector and I are going to have to go to one in Austin when we move. Yes, that sounds so amazing. And we had said this off camera, but the only time I've ever actually been able to stay in a cold plunge for six minutes was at an event similar to that. It was not. I haven't been to a coffee in Chile yet, but there's been similar events like that in LA that I've been to over the years. And just having that community and having those people really like cheering you on really helps you.

Kyle Ponton (40:58)

It's a big difference. Yeah. And it's just a lot of fun.

Courtney (41:00)

Yeah, it's so much fun. I love it. And it's a great community builder. It's a great way to meet new friends. You know, one of the messages I get from people all the time is how do you find friends that are on the same page as you and alignment with you that are eating healthy and you know, doing healthy practices in their life? Because I think they're, you know, it's so much easier when you're in community with the accountability for all of this stuff, you know, like being in friendship with people that are on the same page as you and you guys want to do the same things together and you're egging each other on in a good way to be healthy and to eat real food and to do the cold plunging in the sauna and everything. I mean, perfect example, my bachelorette this weekend, everybody was dming me like, oh my God, this is like my dream bachelorette because we were so. We stayed at a house that was non toxic. I mean, they literally had non toxic, like non bleached toilet paper. Like that's how deep it went. There was a sauna and a cold plunge. There was a saltwater pool. We were doing like fun activities and like, you know, cold plunging. Every morning on my Bachelorette, like it wasn't your typical, like, we're gonna go out raging and you know, taking shots till three in the morning. It was like we were in bed by like 11.

Kyle Ponton (42:06)

You know, our tagline for our company is where cold plunging meets culture. And what that really means to us is I think, you know, this kind of post Covid era, everyone is becoming just much more aware of their health and starting to actually pay attention to these things a lot sooner than people were even five years ago, 10 years ago. I think Covid really just kind of woke people up. And for us, you know, we obvious, obviously, you know, make cold plunges and that's the primary business that we're in. But one of the things that I really just, I'm passionate about and love talking about is seeing how people are actually having health become like cool. Like health is like some health is not no longer this like lame, weird, taboo thing that you keep in the private between you and your doctor. It's like this is something now that like you are open up about. I mean, I don't know the last time people are pulling out lab reports on podcasts and going through their blood work. Like, there's just so much more attention being put on health and I think it's now becoming cool. And I, and, and we want to make health cool because I think when you start taking control of your health, it's something that can, can, can change your life. And the sooner you do that, the better your lifespan is and the better quality of life you have. And so I think it's just, we've seen it in, within the cold plunge space because, you know, it's kind of that synergy between like people who are trying it for the first time. It's an exciting thing to do. It's a little bit taboo, but it's become less taboo over the years. And so it's just, it's been really, really cool to be a part of that kind of like cultural experience where you see celebrities and DJs and big influencers are now actually doing cold plunging and are actually like, no, this is actually cool to do. It's cool to be healthy again. And so, yeah, I just, I just wanted to touch on that because I think a lot of people are starting to see that and are starting to actually do these things. Not just cold plunging, but really paying attention to their health as an overall general thing, which is just, just incredible. So.

Courtney (44:04)

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Courtney (47:00)

I mean, I've been in this world for so long. I started doing everything that I'm doing now almost 20 years ago. And I remember, like, you know, I mentioned earlier that I was on tour. I was on the road for 10 years, like, touring with bands before I started doing what I'm doing now. Because in the beginning, I was in a learning phase of my journey and reading all these books. And then I went back to school and I learned more, but I was in an environment that was very not healthy. Everyone around me was binge drinking like crazy and eating really terribly and going to bed till four in the morning. And I was the one that was going to Whole Foods every day and buying all organic food. And back then, it was really not.

Kyle Ponton (47:40)

Yeah.

Courtney (47:41)

And so, like, these were my friends, and so, like, they weren't, like, mean to me, but they would, like, make fun of me a lot for it. Like, obviously all in love how you, like, poke at your friends and stuff. But it is. It's so incredible to see such a shift in society now, because back then it was like, everybody was like, oh, my God, Courtney over here with her, like, crazy, you know, organic, healthy food. And they'd make so much fun of me and, like, poke at it. And now all those people that were poking fun at me are now the ones that are, like, texting me and calling me, being like, wait, what was that thing that you did on the road? Like, that actually seemed like it was maybe beneficial.

Kyle Ponton (48:12)

Yep.

Courtney (48:13)

And it's cool to see. And now, you know, community stuff. Back in the day, I mean, I remember it was like, you know, cool to, like, go to a daytime party and everybody's, like, binge drinking and, like, you know, doing all that. And then now people are doing cold plunges, not drinking coffee.

Kyle Ponton (48:28)

Yep. Yep.

Courtney (48:28)

And they're drinking coffee and matcha.

Kyle Ponton (48:30)

It's insane.

Courtney (48:31)

And, like, connecting and socializing and having fun. And it's so amazing to see these events that are not just based around drinking. My, actually, my girlfriend said this this weekend about the Bachelorette. She was like, it's so cool that this is a bachelorette that, like, we're not focused on drinking. So, like, we're doing all these just really fun activities and having fun with our friends, you know?

Kyle Ponton (48:49)

Exactly.

Courtney (48:50)

And, like, doing all these healthy things.

Kyle Ponton (48:51)

Yes.

Courtney (48:52)

And so then we all left feeling, like, super revitalized and, like, amazing. Like, when I showed up today, you're.

Courtney (48:57)

Like, oh, my God.

Courtney (48:58)

Your bachelorette was this weekend. How are you feeling? And I'm like, I'm great. I was like cold plunging and sauna ing every day and going to sunlight.

Kyle Ponton (49:04)

Yeah. That's incredible. That's awesome. Yeah. And I don't think that would have happened, you know, would have been happening a lot less frequently five, ten years ago. I think now it's like, now that's cool. Like now, like doing a healthy bachelorette party, like, that's awesome. Like, people are going to praise you for that, which I think is just awesome. And it's cool. And people, you know, I'm encouraged by that.

Courtney (49:22)

Yeah. Oh, thank you. I love that. Okay, so what else? We've almost gone through everything I wanted to talk you. Talk to you about, but I want to hear your personal story about cold plunging. So how did you get started? And maybe there's like a little something that you can share with people about, I guess your journey with it.

Kyle Ponton (49:39)

Yeah.

Courtney (49:39)

How it's helped you.

Kyle Ponton (49:40)

Yeah. So my cold plunging story really started probably about coming up on probably seven years ago now. I got started cold plunging really in these like community events and so similar to a coffee and chill. But. But prior to that, we would actually in the wintertime, I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, and so it got cold enough in the wintertime where we would go into these big pools and these, you know, apartment pools and things of that nature. And we would just, you know, it was me and a couple of my friends who would do it and we would just go there usually on the weekends and start cold plunging. And we all just kind of just felt incredible doing it. We didn't know any of the benefits. We didn't know what was happening. But we knew it was a hard thing to do. We knew it was challenging and we really just wanted to do it. And so we would get to together and then it just turned into, you know, 10 people and then dozens of people. And then eventually got up to like 100 people plus coming to these events. And we didn't have any organization. We were just getting kicked out of different apartment buildings and things of that nature. And that was kind of like my start to cold plunging. And then I actually really, right during COVID I. I had gotten sick. I didn't know if it was Covid yet at the time. We would go to this beautiful hotel called the Omni Grove Park Inn and beautiful hotel in Asheville, North Carolina. And in the basement they had their spa, which was. They had a cold plunge, a sauna and actually a hot tub kind of all in the same little, like, nook. And I wasn't really feeling well. And I went and did this basically cycle for like two hours of hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold. And prior to this, I had taken all of the, you know, medications and all the stuff that was, you know, encouraging people to take to try to like, you know, reduce the symptoms, whatever, and I couldn't. It just was, it was not good. I was not feeling great. And by the end of this two hour session, I literally, I mean, you could ask my wife. I came back to life. Like, I literally felt like I was on top of the world again. And only, you know, a few hours earlier I'd felt so bad. And so I just started like saying, like, why is nobody talking? Like, where is this? Why is nobody talking about this? No one's like really educating people on what this stuff is. And so that was like my kickstart, kind of like my light bulb personal experience of like, there's gotta be more to this, you know, than what meets the service. And so I really just started looking into it. And that's really where you know, kicked off the journey to really get involved into this conversation and be a part of the movement and not just partake in it and really be, you know, how could I make an impact on others and have them start cold punching? So I think, you know, for my personal story, you know, even my partner's personal story, his name is Sam. He's my co founder. You know, he was, you know, kind of a typical entrepreneur, staying up late, you know, kind of, you know, on Adderall for several years. And then when we actually, a year before starting the company, he had a very similar story where he started cold plunging and was able to completely quit Adderall. And so, and now he does his cold plunging. And so it's a powerful tool and everyone has their own, you know, kind of personal stories of how it's affecting it. But yeah, it's been an incredible part of my life.

Courtney (52:40)

Oh, that's so amazing. Thanks for sharing that. That's really cool. I realized there was another question I wanted to ask you before I forget. I was told recently it was actually Hector and I were, that were told this because when we started talking about cold plunging and sauna ing, because this is very new for Hector. When Hector and I met this whole world was he. He was not really like in it. And now he loves it and he's going to the sauna every day. He's so Excited about getting our cold plunge. Like, he's like so into it, love it. And he told someone it actually might have been on the phone with you guys. Cause I can't remember who told us this. Anyways, that doesn't matter. But I had never thought about this until he said this. Cause he was like, oh my gosh. He goes, I'm gonna. What did he say he was gonna do? He's like, okay, how I'm gonna add this to my routine every day when we get our cold plunges, I'm gonna. I think he said, I'm gonna go to the gym first and then I'm gonna sauna, and then I'm gonna cold plunge. And the person was like, oh, no, you actually wanna do it the opposite. Because then it hinders muscle growth. And I had never heard. So what is the. If you want to get your workout in, you want to get all this stuff, what is the correct way that you want to do it?

Kyle Ponton (53:41)

Yeah, it's a great question. So I always tell people, you kind of got to reverse engineer for what your goal is. And so if your goal, like as an example, I play paddle often down here in Miami. Paddle super popular. And so paddle is obviously much more of, you know, you're getting a huge sweat, you know, in. And so it's a lot of cardio and that sort of workout or a run, it could be something similar to that. But for those kinds of activities, doing a cold plunge after, there's nothing better than that. I mean, you have instant recovery, instant relief. It is the most best thing you could do after a very, like big sweat workout like that. However, if you are going for specifically muscle growth and you're going to the gym to exercise for specifically muscle growth, and you're working on, you know, that. That part of your. Your journey, then. Yeah, think about it. When you're doing. When you're building muscle, you're tearing muscles. As you tear muscles, those muscles inflame. And as they inflame, they slightly then deflame. And that's how they get bigger and bigger and bigger. And so if you go into a cold plunge immediately after that, then you're kind of counterintuitively going against what that muscle is designed to be doing for the following few hours. Um, and so ideally, if you are going to be going into a big heavy workout like that, as long as you wait, the studies that they've come out very recently with, as long as you can wait at least like about four hours is the conservative number. If you wait four Hours. So if you work out in the morning, then doing it in the evening or the afternoon, you know, you're going to be fine. And, and then so yeah, you don't want to do it completely immediately after a big kind of like muscle workout. Ideally you can do it beforehand.

Courtney (55:22)

Okay. Amazing.

Courtney (55:23)

That's amazing. So this is such good information. So if you're just doing cardio, like running or you're, you know, you're on the treadmill or you're running outside, whatever it is, then you could come back and do a cold plunge and it actually would be great to like reduce inflammation.

Kyle Ponton (55:36)

Absolutely.

Courtney (55:36)

But like, if I'm going to my strength training, if I go see my trainer and I'm like lifting weights and trying to work on my booty, I want to do the cold plunge first, ideally. Or wait until maybe like that night or something.

Kyle Ponton (55:48)

Exactly.

Courtney (55:49)

Great.

Courtney (55:49)

Okay. That's such good advice.

Kyle Ponton (55:51)

Yeah.

Courtney (55:53)

So I guess my last question is, is there any new research that's come out recently that's really exciting? Or where do you kind of see this practice heading in the future?

Kyle Ponton (56:01)

Yeah, you know, that's, we touched on this earlier, but I think that there is now so much more research coming about. You know, now that coldpointers have become so much more popular. People are really, you know, not just individuals, but businesses, hotels, yoga studios, wellness centers are really starting to put these things in public places. And so it's becoming much more available. And so because of that, there's now a lot more attention and resources going in to cold plunging. And really some interesting studies that are being done right now. You know, I don't think there's anything at least that I've seen in the past year or so that's been, you know, incredibly, you know, mind boggling to see. I think the things that we kind of know, you know, over the past four years, five years or so, are kind of tried and true. When it comes to things we talked about with inflammation recovery, those sorts of things. I think what I'm really interested to see, and it's not there yet, but, and actually like the addiction community, so looking into, you know, people who have, who struggle with different types of addictions, we've seen a lot of interesting studies that I know are being done today that I'm really interested to see the results of those because it's having a very, very big impact. I've seen it personally within people that I know had a major impact, you know, coming out of, you know, coming kind of post addict life and recovery, being able to incorporate a tool like a cold. Plunging has been like absolutely game changer for a lot of people I know. So I'm really curious to see some results there and see kind of what that looks like.

Courtney (57:35)

Yeah, I'm excited about that too.

Kyle Ponton (57:37)

Yeah.

Courtney (57:38)

Well, I hope everyone loved this episode.

Kyle Ponton (57:40)

Yes.

Courtney (57:40)

Thank you so much. I think that this was such a great episode for so that people could really understand why we loved a cold plunge, what the benefits are and you know, how to do it, how to have a good routine around it and just. Yeah, I think it was a great episode. And thank you so much for coming on.

Kyle Ponton (57:54)

Thank you for having me on, Courtney.

Courtney (57:56)

Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology Podcast.

Courtney (57:58)

This is a Wellness Loud production produced.

Courtney (58:00)

By Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for.

Courtney (58:19)

Educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.

Dr. Tina Moore (58:38)

Are you ready to rock middle age? I'm Dr. Tina Moore, Gen X truth teller and holistic physician on the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple Podcasts top alternative health shows. I share what actually works for metabolic health, hormones and strength. Backed by decades of clinical results, not trends. From loving the gym and hitting your protein goals to peptides and microdosing GLP1s, it's all done the right way, not the hype way. Because menopause doesn't have to suck if you're fit. New episodes every Thursday, produced by Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud.