Podcast Host (4:18)

That's so wild to me. I just have to believe I'm like there. It has to be because of what's happening in our environment. There's no way that we have always been like that.

Dr. Z (4:26)

In my opinion, the infertility rates are rising for sure. I think it's multifactorial. I do think our environment plays a huge role. I also, I mean, I know for a fact that a big part of it is we're waiting longer to have babies, right? So that's a huge variable. But if you control for age and you still look at younger women, the age infertility rates are significantly higher than they used to be, yeah. The biggest question I sometimes ask myself is, well, is it because we're more educated and people are seeking out treatment as opposed to just suffering in silence, or is it. I think it's probably a combination of many things. I definitely do believe that our environment plays a massive role. We just have so many environmental toxins. There are many different researchers who are looking at the different pesticides, for example, and how that's affecting sperm. And we know that, you know, sperm parameters have declined quite significantly in the last 50 years, particularly for men who live close to sort of big farms that spray pesticides and that are exposed to things like glyphosate.

Podcast Host (5:43)

Yeah, that's a big one that I like to talk about a lot. That's. It doesn't give me joy, but it's just. I think it's a really. It's an invisible, insidious one. Yes.

Dr. Z (5:52)

And that's. That's the hardest part. It's kind of like an invisible disease. You don't see it. You think, okay, well, I'm mostly eating vegetables, fruits, whole foods, as much as possible. In terms of my protein sources. I'm not, you know, my carb choices are really healthy. Low glycemic index, high fiber. And yet here we are. And it's the most frustrating thing for patients that are stuck doing all these repeat IVF cycles, and they're just like, what? I've done everything in my life to stay as healthy as possible. So that's definitely a big part of it, for sure. Egg reserve does not predict likelihood of pregnancy.

Podcast Host (6:34)

Amazing.

Dr. Z (6:34)

So anti mullerian hormone levels does not correlate to likelihood of pregnancy. You could have diminished ovarian reserve and still have the same likelihood as someone your age who has very high egg reserve. So having high ovarian reserve is really cost effective for egg freezing, but is not like it could be falsely reassuring.

Podcast Host (6:57)

Yeah.

Dr. Z (6:58)

And on the other hand, a diminished ovarian reserve can lead someone to feel like they're never going to get pregnant and there's no way that they're going to get pregnant naturally, when in reality, there's probably a lot of women out there with diminished ovarian reserve getting pregnant on their own, and they have no idea because they've never tested their fertility because they just get pregnant.

Sasha Hockman (7:15)

Yeah.

Dr. Z (7:15)

So.

Podcast Host (7:16)

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for saying that, too. I'm sure everyone listening is probably feeling better. I'm feeling better, and I'm glad that you brought that up. I guess. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you feel like women need to know that we didn't cover in any of this area.

Dr. Z (7:29)

I guess the other big takeaway is that female age is the number one predictor of reproductive success. So if you are younger and you're even thinking about it, just go for the consultation. It doesn't commit you to anything, but just like, go see a fertility specialist, see what it's all about, understand your numbers, what things look like for you, and then make a plan accordingly. The most common thing that I see in women that come to see me, the number one regret is, I wish I froze my eggs, or I wish I froze more eggs.

Podcast Host (8:07)

Yeah.

Dr. Z (8:07)

And the people who have that, that have the eggs, they never regret it. There are people who end up having leftover embryos, and they're like, you know, I did what I needed to, and now I have the family I wanted. But the worst is seeing the regret. And I hate to see that. For women to go through when they want a specific family size and it becomes a lot more difficult, especially as you start to increase in your 40s.

Wenatal Representative (8:34)

So.

Dr. Z (8:34)

So it's important to talk with your doctor. How many kids do you see yourself having? What does that look like for you? Just get in and have the consult.

Podcast Host (8:42)

Yeah, I think that's really important. I wish. I know I can say, and I think I told you this last night, that at 36, I wish I had not waited that long, but it was not even something that was, like, that was crossing my mind before then. Right. Like, I always knew that I wanted to be a mom. And I always just felt like, oh, this is just gonna happen someday. And of course it did. It happened later than I had hoped and that I had for it too, you know, and thank God I found my person. But I just. I wish that I had started thinking about this when I was, like, 28, 29, and maybe did it when I was, like, 32. And look, I don't live in regret. I don't believe in living regret, because you're just. You're gonna, like, torture yourself, but just if you're younger. I think it's just like you said, go in for a consult, just, like, poke around. If that's something that you wanna do. Just look into it earlier than you think you would. Because also, it comes in a blink of an eye.

Dr. Z (9:35)

It does.

Podcast Host (9:36)

I feel like I'm 29. Like, I can't believe that I'm 40. And so I just look back at all those years where I'm like. I just, like, all of a Sudden I blinked and I'm 40, and I'm like, okay, should have been focused on

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (9:48)

this a little bit more.

Podcast Host (9:49)

But it's fine. Yeah, it's working out the way that it was supposed to. And, you know.

Dr. Z (9:55)

Yeah. And 40 isn't the end for most people. It just. Some. For some women, it just takes a little more work. But plenty of women get pregnant in their 40s. But it's really interesting, I would say, that almost every fertility doctor I know has frozen her eggs or has frozen embryos. There's very few that I know. I think I can only think of one person who didn't do fertility preservation. And this is because we understand it so well. So all of us in our early 30s were like, all right, it's time. Egg freezing, embryo banking, whatever. It looks like some people who are married did embryo banking. I was one of. And we ended up needing to use an embryo in order to get pregnant. So it worked out. So, yeah, it's always a good idea to just understand it.

Podcast Host (10:44)

I agree.

Dr. Z (10:45)

It's actually quite controversial whether priming is really even necessary or not, especially with birth control pills specifically. So some data shows it makes absolutely no difference, and then some shows it does. Now, the advantage of taking birth control pills prior to starting is that the theory behind it is you're kind of keeping the follicles small, similar in size, and the hope is when you stop the pill, the follicles will grow more in synchrony, so that you have more mature eggs available, all at the same time, maximizing the egg count. That being said, I have had plenty of patients not wanting the pill who have been very successful in their cycles as well. And I know many doctors who don't do it, and they have really great outcomes. I would say my favorite type of priming is starting in the luteal phase. So one week after you ovulate, and with an estrogen pill in particular, I don't do this for women with really high ovarian reserve because the concern with them is that they're going to hyperstimulate. But with the estrogen pill, this is called an estrase prime that has been shown to. To improve the response to the inject medications and potentially yielding to higher number of eggs retrieved. So that is my preferred method. That being said, there have been many cases where I do what's called just like a straight start, so at the beginning of the menstrual cycle, but you can really tell on ultrasound when the follicles are all various sizes. This is where I tell Those patients, like, listen, you have a good number of follicles, but some are way bigger than the others. I don't think they're going to grow in synchrony, and we're not going to get a high number of eggs.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (12:32)

Yeah.

Dr. Z (12:33)

If you want reconsider, we don't start today. And with the next cycle, we start priming you. We do the birth control, we do the estrase prime, and then we start in hopes of getting a higher yield. Yeah.

Podcast Host (12:46)

Which I wonder now, looking back, if. Because that was never a conversation that was had with me, and I wonder now if. If that was. Yeah. Like, if I had been told that, I probably would have been like, okay, I'm just going to suck this up and just do.

Dr. Z (12:58)

Could also be the type of birth control pills that you've been taking too. Cause sometimes. And we talked about this too last night, where I said, well, estrase has a lot of side effects, the most common one being just really intense nausea. And that was my personal experience with it, too. But if you administer it vaginally, then you're bypassing that first pass effect of it being metabolized by the liver, which leads to a lot of the side effects. So if you place it vaginally, it has really great absorption. You're bypassing some of the side effects, and you're only on it for a week.

Podcast Host (13:31)

Yeah. Okay. In a week. That's, like, pretty manageable.

Sasha Hockman (13:34)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (13:34)

I just was. I was so. I. I like, joke that I have, like, PTSD from my experiences on synthetic hormones that I just, like. I was.

Dr. Z (13:42)

It's a thing.

Podcast Host (13:43)

I, like, almost didn't freeze my eggs because I didn't want to take the birth control. It really. It did. It, like, scarred me. I really, like, did not have great experiences on birth control.

Dr. Z (13:52)

Yeah, it's. It's really interesting with the birth control pill how two women can feel vastly different.

Podcast Host (13:58)

Oh, it's wild.

Dr. Z (13:59)

Yeah. For me, it's the opposite. I feel like my best when I'm on it. And then I've had many patients who are like, I will not do it. I literally go nuts.

Podcast Host (14:09)

Yes.

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Sasha Hockman (16:55)

What's interesting is in the biological age testing world, there's a lot of different types of tests. And when I was first introduced to the biological age test, you know, first I tested myself, thinking I was going to come back in my 20s. I was mid-30s at the time, single in LA, wanting babies. I didn't come back in my 20s. I didn't even come back at my age. I came back four years older. And so initially we went into denial and was like, well, maybe this actually doesn't connect to fertility. So I went into the research, but sure enough, there are specific aging markers, the ones we use on our test, this particular aging marker that we use, which is based off of DNA methylation. So we're actually looking at the DNA, and we could talk about the different ways that different companies are testing biological age. But this particular marker was connected to poorer outcomes when that age was older, even when women were younger. Which means if A woman was 28, but her biological age came back at 32 or 33, she got poorer outcomes than maybe somebody who was actually 32 or 33 and came back at the same age. Yeah.

Podcast Host (17:57)

And why is that? Like, what's happening there? Is it just because the egg, the cells are not as healthy, so maybe the sperm's not able to stick to the egg and the egg is not as healthy.

Sasha Hockman (18:07)

So biological age is a measure of cellular health. Eggs are the largest cell in our body, and when that age is older, it tells us that there's things that are happening in the body that are accelerating that biological clock, and that's aging, that's disease, and that infertility is a byproduct of health. That's what it comes down to. The healthier you are, the younger your biological age, and also the more fertile, barring a few other specific things. If you have blocked fallopian tubes, that's going to be a slightly different issue, not necessarily related to biological age, but addressing biological age and cellular health will help you get better outcomes. If you are needing to do something like ivf, taken a biological age test specifically with this, the aging speedometer marker is what they're looking at. Anybody in the world can join this rejuvenation Olympics. I was actually number 44 out of 8,000 for a while.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (19:00)

That's amazing.

Sasha Hockman (19:01)

I don't know where I am now. I haven't checked. Eggs are one of the densest places of mitochondria in the body, and that's a huge mark. That's a huge part of this cellular health and a huge part of reproduction. So, yeah, definitely I haven't used that exclusively, but I have used that in combination with things. And that was one of the things I was on for three months. And it depends on how much exposure someone has had over time and what their natural detox mechanisms are. Some people need that part more than others. There was a study done on a specific detox protocol using the Quicksilver products. So they're like Push Catch, they're glutathione. And it was a three month study, and it was three components. So they had people cycle on and off different products. I'm sure it was sponsored by them. Full disclosure, Great company. Yeah. That's how stuff gets done these days, apparently. And so what they found was that the detox component. So doing that Push Catch, which it's a liver sauce that helps the liver get more toxins out of the tissues, out of the body, gets them into the bile, into the gut. And then the catch is a binder, clays, charcoals, and things that then binds it grabs it, and then takes it completely out of the body. So it's not just getting reabsorbed.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (20:16)

In order for me to prepare space

Podcast Host (20:19)

for this baby to come in, there's some things that I have to do with my. My business right now where I really need to, like, restructure, do some things a little different, get some more support so that I have that time and space for that baby to come in.

Sasha Hockman (20:33)

Beautiful.

Podcast Host (20:34)

Yeah.

Male Fertility Expert (20:34)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (20:34)

I'm very into all of this.

Sasha Hockman (20:36)

Space is a big one. Can I share something else?

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (20:40)

Yeah.

Sasha Hockman (20:40)

So I started talking to my baby soul before I met my fiance, and I felt like a girl energy. And I told her, I'm like, go find your dad. And on our second date, my fiance looked at me and he goes, I can feel our daughter. And I was like, okay, this is it.

Podcast Host (21:01)

Okay, we're gonna have to talk after this because there's some things I'm not

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (21:04)

ready to publicly share yet.

Sasha Hockman (21:06)

For sure.

Dr. Z (21:07)

Love that.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (21:08)

In the same vein.

Podcast Host (21:09)

Oh, my gosh, that's so cool.

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Male Fertility Expert (22:38)

What we've been seeing is that IVF is a little bit, like, could be a band aid, especially when it comes to, like, male fertility issues. Because a lot of times one out of four couples that have go through ivf, the partner isn't even tested.

Podcast Host (22:56)

That is so insane. How are we allowing that to happen? That what.

Wenatal Representative (23:00)

How are they missing that the process is messed up? Because imagine how much burden the female takes on just going through ivf. How could you not even check the male partner? I know it's a big.

Male Fertility Expert (23:09)

And we know that, like, sperm quality is a barometer of your health. So you have this opportunity to look under the hood and dive deep and say, okay, well, why do I have sperm motility issues? Why do I have sperm quality issues? It could be linked. Men that have issues with erectile dysfunction have higher chances of cardiovascular disease. So this is an opportunity to dive in and look under the hood of your health for both men and women. And a lot of times we're just like, okay, we just need to have the baby ASAP. We just got married. We're 40, you know, and it's like, you know, we're very much advocating for, like, there's so much you could do and use this challenge as an opportunity to become healthier.

Podcast Host (23:56)

I think over the last decade, I've kind of just had this mentality of, like, oh, it's gonna happen when it's supposed to happen. And I never was thinking, like, really thinking about, like, how can I improve my fertility? Cause also at the time, I mean, I wasn't even, you know, on my way to getting married and just didn't know when it was even gonna be possible. And so I'm so glad we' this conversation because I'm hoping that people younger will listen to this and start to take more care and pay attention to this because I feel like, I don't know, I'm just, I'm really hoping that I have paid enough attention to my health and that I've taken care of my health enough to where I'm just like, I'm starting to get so nervous because I'm like, oh my God, if I can't get pregnant, I'm going to be so upset.

Wenatal Representative (24:39)

It's hard, it's hard, it's hard. And I would say the more you can get back to not letting those thoughts creep in, we've all had them. I mean, I had a miscarriage before I had kids. And it went, I'm sorry, I know it's emotional. And I had all the thoughts, will I ever have kids? Why me? All these things. Why did I have, you know, married later in life, all the things. It's proven that gratitude a few minutes a day can really help shift the brain. And that's why also at Wenatal we knew that the supplements are one part of the equation. But your mental health is so important also. You will get there 100%, but you also have to believe and know that it's waiting for you. I think it's hard to keep faith when a lot of the men messages were spewed are pretty toxic.

Podcast Host (25:19)

Yeah.

Wenatal Representative (25:19)

It's not just the food in the air that's toxic. It's really these terms and these fear mongering and there's a lot of this and it's an industry. And so being kind to yourself during this process is also super important. Trying to stay in your own and not look left and right right. Like just stay in your own lane and be super grateful for your relationship, grateful for your health. You're gonna get there. I have no doubt.

Male Fertility Expert (25:42)

And I will say there are so many positives to having kids later in life. I look at people that are like 25 and, you know, they have kids, but then like, maybe they're not like advanced in their career or maybe like they're not stable financially or maybe they're, you know, there's a million reasons why I am so grateful that I had my kids in my late 30s and early 40s. Like, I don't have FOMO. When people go out, I was like,

Wenatal Representative (26:10)

there's one in there, done that, been there, done that.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (26:12)

I'm over that.

Male Fertility Expert (26:13)

I'm okay with being like, like, super present with my kids, and, like, I never feel like I'm missing out on anything, and there's just, like, so many benefits, so.

Dr. Z (26:23)

Yes.

Podcast Host (26:23)

Oh, I just love this because they're. It's so interesting how, like, your life just unfolds obviously, the way that it's meant to be. But, like, I always thought I was gonna be a young mom, so I think a lot of this journey, too, has been me kind of, like, grieving that and just accepting, like, okay, like, I decided to take my career on first. And also, I just didn't happen to meet my person until later for whatever reason. Yeah, but you made some really good points, and I think that. Yeah, that helps me a lot, and hopefully it helps a lot of people listening because it's. You know, we're. I think, as women, too, we take on so much of this. Right? Like, we get. We're so hard on ourselves, and we're also. I think women are just hard on other women in general. Like, we're brutal.

Sasha Hockman (27:01)

Yes.

Male Fertility Expert (27:01)

It's never too early to start working on your fertility.

Podcast Host (27:04)

100%. Yes. Well, and I think, too, like, everyone just. It's so narrow, focused, like, like, fertility, fertility. But you're not thinking about what you just said. The overall, like, zoom out and think about gut health, your thyroid, because it all works in synchronicity together.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (27:20)

Right.

Podcast Host (27:20)

And so why are we not focused on that? And in the nutrition, what does the body need for Preconception?

Male Fertility Expert (27:26)

Yeah, it's 100%. It all works together. And with my second baby, it was actually after I had my miscarriage at the age of. Of 41. So when I was 41, my birthday gift was that I got pregnant, and three months later, I had a miscarriage. I was focused on my health. I was doing all the things, but completely ignored my husband's health and had no idea that men were 50% of pregnancy, health and fertility.

Podcast Host (27:58)

So isn't it crazy that we don't even. We don't talk about that publicly at all. It's so obvious when people point it out, I'm like, duh. But it's never really talked about publicly. It's always on the woman, always on the woman.

Male Fertility Expert (28:11)

And when we kind of came across the information on how men actually have this amazing opportunity, because they're always regenerating sperm with a process called spermatogenesis. So I think they're generating, like, thousands of sperm every second of the day.

Podcast Host (28:28)

That's wild.

Male Fertility Expert (28:29)

I think it's like 100 to 200,000 sperm a day.

Wenatal Representative (28:32)

Yeah, about 1500 every second. So.

Male Fertility Expert (28:35)

So they have this amazing ability to regenerate sperm. Now us as women, we don't regenerate eggs. We are born with eggs that were born. We can improve how those eggs are mature. But men, they're getting new batches of sperm all the time. So they have almost a bigger opportunity to improve the fertility equation. If you look at it like that and, and research shows that men that take antioxidants like CoQ10, NaC, L, carnitine, vitamin C have five times higher chances of getting their partner pregnant. So when we came across that information after our miscarriages, we were like, wait, why aren't all men on antioxidants? What's going on here? This should be like the protocol for every couple who's getting married. It's like, here's your engagement gift, I'm bringing over you. Wouldn't that be a little, would be a little intrusive. And honestly I do that.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (29:35)

No, I honestly think it's brilliant.

Podcast Host (29:36)

I'm like anyone that wants to gift me that, I would be so happy.

Wenatal Representative (29:40)

But really it goes back to like what happened in society that for hundreds of years as women we're so advanced in so many things, we're in the workforce and we're literally have equal rights and all these things. But how are we not discussing that men are 50% of the fertility equation. That was, is the true aha moment that led to wenatal. We're literally like, we need to shift the gender paradigms. We need to open people's aperture to realize that it's a team sport.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (30:03)

Yes.

Wenatal Representative (30:04)

You cannot do it alone. And regardless of your, you know, single parent by choice, if you're in a same sex couple, whether you're doing this in any component, you need to make sure both partners are leveling up their health and you're both doing everything you can to have a healthy pregnancy and healthy child. And it's not just that, it's the genes that you give your kids for their lifetime.

Dr. Ben Lynch (30:27)

It's not just a woman who gets pregnant. It's, you know, the sperm is heavily involved and the health of your sperm is extremely important. And if the man has mthfr, then they are passing that MTHFR onto the baby. You don't know the MTHFR status of your developing baby, but you can guess it and you think of the odds. So if you have mthfr compound heterozygous one of each, then your partner, what does he have or what does she have? You know, do they have the same as you. Well, then is a baby going to inherit two 6, 7, 7s. That's more significant than one of 6, 9, 7, 7 and one 1298 do, they're going to get two 1298s. You know, they're going to get. They're going to get something for sure. And so while you might have just, let's say you have just a 677, Courtney, but your partner has the 677 and the 1298. So the doctor will look at, you know, you say, oh, it's not a big deal. You just have one six, seven, seven or you just have one one two nine eight and they don't look at the guy.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (31:28)

Yeah.

Dr. Ben Lynch (31:29)

And then you have a miscarriage and the baby's homocysteine could have been elevated and yours is fine. Nobody's talking about this. So if the baby's MTHFR enzyme is not functioning very well and yours is, well, you know, you are passing all the nutrients to that developing baby. And so the status of the partner is very, very important. And so men, you need to be taking a prenatal vitamin as well, ideally for three months, because it takes three months for sperm to basically become all new again. You know, they kind of cycle through. And some miscarriages occur. Most miscarriages occur because of chromosomal abnormalities. And I say that with a pause because I got to be careful what I'm saying because I don't have the reference in front of me. I will say many miscarriages occur because of chromosomal abnormalities. And the chromosomal abnormalities, women, it's not just your fault. In fact, it's no one's fault. Men's chromosomes are also being passed. So if the men's sperm are unhealthy, they are passing unhealthy chromosomes. And when the baby is developing and it's going through all the checks and balances, if there's significant chromosomal abnormalities, miscarriage, naturally the baby, the baby will be miscarried because nature has determined it's not fit for survival. And so the both man and women must be supported with a prenatal. And ideally both are evaluated for mthfr,

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (33:21)

any sort of fertility issues, or even

Podcast Host (33:22)

if they're not, if they're just preparing

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (33:24)

and they want to be at optimal health.

Podcast Host (33:26)

You know, there's the necessary things like getting enough sleep, reducing your stress, working on your toxic load, so getting the cleaning supplies out of your house that are toxic chemicals, cleaning up your skin care, your makeup, and for Your men, too. I actually heard you talk about this recently that I hadn't even thought about. The shaving cream for men has phthalates in it. And I was like, oh, my God, I need to change out Hector's shaving cream.

Dr. Ben Lynch (33:50)

Yeah, yeah.

Podcast Host (33:51)

So little tweaks like that can make a huge difference too. And there's so much focus on the women's body.

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (33:57)

Right.

Podcast Host (33:57)

And there's not enough on the men. What are the men eating? How do their diets look? How are their, you know, detoxification pathways? Do they have this MTHFR gene?

Podcast Announcer/Ad Reader (34:07)

Look into all of that.

Podcast Host (34:08)

What are the products that they're using? Because again, there's so much focus on the women, but nobody's really talking about the men's health.

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And they play half the role.

Dr. Ben Lynch (34:15)

Yeah, they do. Literally half the role. So it's, it's crazy. You're. You're, you're baking the baby, but to make the baby is both of you. You boys are not going to have sperm going around at that age. I was like, no. But you can, you can identify by the distance between their anus and, you know, the start of their scrotum, apparently. And if it's short, the likelihood of their being infertile later on in life is very, very high. So. And, and boys are being born with a short distance, and so, yeah, it's a big deal.

Podcast Host (34:52)

Thank you so much for listening to

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the Real Foodology podcast.

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This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson.

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Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube.

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As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio.

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And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app.

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For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for

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educational and informational purposes only. It is not a sign substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. If you struggle with bloating, gas, constipation, digestive issues, yeast overgrowth, well, you may already know about Digest this. It's the podcast hosted by me, Bethany Cameron, also known as Little Sipper on Instagram. I dive into gut health, nutrition, the food industry, and drawing from my own experience, I break down what's good, what's bad, and what's the best for your gut, your skin and so much more. I even offer gut friendly recipes. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday produced by Wellness Loud.