Dr. John Kim (5:27)

Courtney. It's an honor to be here. Looking forward to this interview and there's so much topic that we want to discuss. So yeah, let's get this started.

Courtney (5:34)

I know, I'm so excited. So you are actually my personal doctor. We've been working together for the last couple months and I, I, I want to, we'll go into that a little bit later, but I want to talk about your story first and how you got started in all of this. You had a heart attack at 33. What were the labs that your allopathic doctors missed that almost cost your life?

Dr. John Kim (5:52)

Oh my God. Yeah. So that is a one of the biggest shift of why I'm doing what I'm doing at this point in terms of my overall health issue. And I thought I was living a healthy life and I would go to my doctor's office and get an annual blood check. I mean, everything routine in terms of getting cholesterol levels. And it was, everything was quote, unquote normal. But some of the laughs that were completely missed was the fact that I had very high levels of C reactive protein, which is markers of inflammatory inflammation. Yeah, right. And then high levels of homocysteine on top of that. And then on top of all the inflammatory markers, especially IL6. Right. TNF alpha, multiple things that now I should look at that into seeing if the person's actually doing, dealing with some of the chronic inflammatory response issues. And not even just that it's really looking at the overall intricacy of how the immune system is really functioning. So even as I am, I Complete my fellowship training in functional medicine back in 2008 and I work with a lot of patients in dealing with hormones and immune and gut. But even for me being a fellowship trained, we didn't really look at that labs either. So I didn't really question until I went through my own issue and having to see, oh my God, there's such a bigger slide of labs that were completely missed that could have actually told a lot of stories. However, there were a lot of telltale signs that there was something going on inside me. I always had a gut issue where I actually had severe food sensitivity to rice, beef scallions.

Courtney (7:22)

Wow.

Dr. John Kim (7:23)

Yeah. So I couldn't really digest red meat properly some numerous times. I ended up having to try a different diet, including vegan. I would only able to stick with that diet for maybe about a month or two and it would just cause amounts of bloating and such. And you would think that digestive enzyme is going to fix the problem. It really didn't. It would just put the band in the problem. It would still end up having to cause other issues including heartburn, very bad breath. Right. There's the underlying sign of gut dysbiosis right there. Maybe candida overgrowth on top of not able to digest fat properly. And then insomnia, anxiety issues. Had a lot of telltale sign that there was a major problem going on, including cystic acne. But I myself end up having to ignore it. And this is the part that a lot of practitioners go through. We're so good at helping people, but not able to look, reflect and figuring out what the bigger issue in ourselves and able to question that. I think there's a lot of pride getting into it, but also never stopping to really reflect on our own health. And that's the part that's really changed the trajectory of what I'm doing at this point. I'm really giving the time to reflect on my own health. But in order for me to be connected better to my clients, I also have to be feeling well as well. And that's the biggest thing that really shifted into where I am.

Courtney (8:40)

I have that syndrome too. I think a lot of us that get in health and wellness, that want to help others, we tend to put ourselves on the back burner.

Dr. John Kim (8:47)

We do. And including our family. And that's where we need to really learn how to say no in many cases, but also take the time to regulate ourselves better. Right. So that's a part that's been really hard when I first started. Now it's much better in that sense, yeah.

Courtney (9:05)

So do you think mold exposure was part of the cause of your heart attack?

Dr. John Kim (9:10)

It was one of the, one of the issues. So after having a heart attack and one of the physician, the physician actually took care of me, obviously she wasn't here as a guest here as well. So I was questioning why I actually had a heart attack. Right. There was no explanation in terms of how a 33 year old actually having an 85% blockage in the lady. Right. The widowmaker, having a stent put in at the age of 33 years old and then having to say that oh, you just have to be on statins. I wanted more answers. Right. I know that the harm of taking statins and so coming home, sitting down on my couch for about two weeks trying to figure out what are the ways in terms of getting my health back. And the biggest question is am I going to have a secondary heart attack? Because that can happen as well. Especially when you're 33. If you're going to be looking at just taking medications until you're 67 years old, there's no guarantee that statin is going to prevent secondary heart attacks. And their data showing that and that we're still utilizing statins. So I knew that data. So I looked to question it and I just went to my functional medicine doctor and asked like can I just get a vitamin D C drop dripped on because I was very fatigued and just wanted to get my energy back. And she looked at me, she's like, don't you think you have Lyme disease? I'm like, I don't think I do. I've never had a bite to begin with. And after about a month and a half of wait, lab test comes back, I was positive for Bartonella, which is a tick borne illness which is also called a cat scratch fever, as well as positive levels of mold antibody, Aspergillus, specifically Epstein Barr, heavy metals, aluminum and mercury levels very off high. Yeah. So that was another impact in that. And that also caused biofilm to be deposited into the actual pathogen you're dealing with. And then you also. I also actually had parasites. So there's a lot of interplay in terms of biotoxin issues. That could be one of the things, but one of the things that now where I am now reflecting back, there's a lot of other issues that went into play. I actually went through heavy amounts of childhood trauma that caused a lot of issue dealing with not being able to be safe where I was living to begin with. And there are studies now also showing that when children go through heavy amounts of trauma, that causes endless amount of neuroinflammation. So when you talk about neuroinflammation and gut brain axis that also causes your gut to be inflamed. And that becomes an entry point for other endotoxins to get into the gut end up having to cause micro inflammation. And then the whole discussion of inflammaging where inflammation and aging aspect of it now the longevity field and looking into it. But there's much bigger than that now there's entry point of mold and parasites. And what it does is actually affects the overall terrain and the resiliency you're able to handle to handle all those outside stressors including mold and parasites.

Courtney (12:16)

Yeah, I also just. I want to ask you about this because there's so much misconception there out there about cholesterol. Do you think cholesterol plays as big of a role in heart attacks and heart disease that we're being told.

Dr. John Kim (12:30)

It can be? However, that's not the main problem at this point. The reason being is there are huge interplay in terms of genetic getting involved as well. Lifestyle changes. There's also epigenetic changes that's coming from use of seed oils. But now when you're looking at the entire impact of the circadian mismatch that goes on because of blue light as well as where you know persons is not able to get adequate sunlight and sun is so important to not only help to produce vitamin D but also help to normalize fatty acid metabolism. So when you talk about the modern day lifestyle actually happening at this point, the heart disease all related to lifestyle aspect of it. And then the other part is the metabolic disorder where you actually have glucose mismanagement. Right. You have metabolic inflexibility that's actually happening right now in people. So it's all related to poor eating, poor lifestyle. Blue light exposure. Right. Screens especially. Right. There's studies showing that blue light exposure actually affects glucose metabolism.

Courtney (13:35)

So I'm just sitting here with my.

Dr. John Kim (13:38)

No shame but there's a lot of interplay in terms of the environment, mental impact into where it is. So yes, gene is one of the things that we always talk about that it is a messenger but ed as well as a bullet in that aspect. But that certain things that's going to trigger it is the epigenetic aspect of what you've been exposed to, how your lifestyle is, what you eat, how you handle your health. And as well as the metabolic aspect is really the important key factor to really play into how you met up your heart disease and as well as a heart attack, cancer occur. But for me it was more in terms of the biotoxin and the stress response accumulating for over the years on top of living in a very moldy house. End up having to impact how my lipid metabolism was being affected. Right. So those are the things that are really the key factors we have to look at. So statins are not going to fix the heart disease issue. Right. End up having to impact more down the line. And now we're seeing that Statins also affect GLP1s, so actually affects your glucose metabolism and then it also causes leptin resistance. So there's not a quick fix out there. You have to really dial into what the root cause issue is. How do we get the body back in order and building resiliency. So this way you could have to normalize certain things like cholesterol metabolism on top of metabolic health and getting to the right order that the body's intended to.

Courtney (15:03)

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Dr. John Kim (18:48)

Sugar is big one now they're pointing in terms of that. But also when you're looking at medications as well, when you talk about statins. Statins, yes, it actually decreases LDL production, but there's a lot of interplay into nutritional depletion at the same time you're depleting CoQ10. So it's your mitochondrial dysfunction. So you need mitochondrial function for that for proper fatty acid metabolism to occur. So you're already blocking that pathway. But the secondary issue that you're to create is your vitamin K2, which is also interlinked to your microbiome health that gets decreased. So in itself you end up having to cause more of a sticky blood, basically. Right.

Courtney (19:27)

Wow. And that's the exact opposite of what you want.

Dr. John Kim (19:29)

And so there are showing again, statins do not prevent secondary heart attacks. So that's a part. So lifestyle changes really come into play and doing so and I don't, I don't think there's any low or high dose of statins end up having to be safe. In many cases there are studies showing into taking statin drugs end up having to cause electrons to be dumped out of the mitochondria. So they actually cause mitochondrial dysfunction. At the same time, you're also seeing effects of athletic performances in athletes. So when you talk about person who's very unhealthy to begin with end up being on statin drugs now you're actually impacting greater mitochondrial dysfunction and the long term data does not look favorable for them.

Courtney (20:17)

Yeah, well, this is what this, I mean my listeners know this and you obviously know this, but it's just, this is what we've gotten so wrong in the, in the medical system is that we're just treating symptoms with a pill. So if you know after your heart attack, I'm assuming maybe the first doctor that you saw probably wasn't like, oh, let's look at your diet and lifestyle, let's run labs. They're just like, oh, you're gonna have to be on a statin. Here you go. And they're just throwing a band aid at you instead of actually looking at what your d. It is, what your lifestyle is, what you've been exposed to, what's in Your blood, like the mold and everything else that you found and then we're just throwing this drug on there that then is also causing all these other side effects and then you're being thrown in another drug to counteract those side effects. And no one's actually looking at what's going on in the body that's causing all of this.

Dr. John Kim (21:00)

It is, it's mind boggling into how we medicine is being practiced. So my, my background is, is pharmacy and being a pharmacist for last almost 20 years at this point in time. It's taught basically for pharmacy students, including medical students at this point to optimize medication. Right. Nothing in terms of, related to nutrition or lifestyle and even. And the reason that I got into the whole side of functional medicine was because when I was doing my ER work for five weeks in a hospital and really looking at how certain patients are going in and out of er, and I had this one particular patient who had uncontrollable high blood pressure and she was coming into the ER every single week. And what we were doing was basically trying to optimize, basically giving her more medications basically and trying to lower her blood pressure and getting her out at that moment. But why is she coming back every single week? Right. Why isn't this being talked about? And no one talked about lifestyle. And the funny thing is, you know, back in 2005, that's when I was doing my ER externship. And at that time it was JNC 7 guideline in terms of how high blood pressure should be treated. And within that first context of that guideline is lifestyle. That's what they talked about in the guideline.

Courtney (22:16)

Interesting.

Dr. John Kim (22:17)

But it was never talked about in terms of how it should be implemented.

Courtney (22:19)

And how it should be practiced.

Dr. John Kim (22:20)

Yeah, it's crazy. So I questioned a lot and I think that's where in terms of what I'm doing at this point in time is, it's not just about the labs or how the person's dealing with, but also questioning in terms of why that person's in that state of point. And so how do I actually help that patient properly to get to a baseline of health?

Courtney (22:41)

Yeah, exactly. Was there anybody else when you were going through that program also asking questions like you was anybody else going, how, like are we, like how do we get to the root cause of this? Were people asking those kind of questions like doctors?

Dr. John Kim (22:56)

You're not at all. I mean a lot of doctors, including pharmacy students, they're basically in a survival mode, right? In a hospital and trying to do the externship try to be, you know, kissing their butts to their preceptors and trying to get out. What really helped me understand about inflammation and everything else was when I was following up with this particular integrative pharmacist down in Texas actually. And he was a quote unquote integrative in that sense because at that time no one talked about inflammation, but he actually was talking about it and talking to his patients. But specifically he was actually recommending fish oil. And I didn't realize fish oil was that powerful. Now looking back, I'm like, those fish oils wasn't that good of a quality. But that actually really made a point in terms of. All right, there's a lot more interplay into disease states. It's not just about medications alone. There is impact of nutrition and how inflammation end up having to be the root cause issues. But now we know that inflammation, there's also other root cause issues that causing inflammation. So that have to take it even deeper.

Courtney (24:02)

Yeah. I want to ask you about fish oil because I personally, I have to admit I'm still a little bit confused on it because depends on who you listen to. Either fish oil is really toxic, no matter the sourcing, or it's really good for you and it lowers inflammation. So we hear from one end of the spectrum that it's really good for you. And then there's, you know, like the Paul Saladino's of the world. Love you, Paul. I'm not trying to call you out, but I'm just saying that like, you know, and then Paul Saladino goes out there and it's not just him, there's a whole. My friends at Seed Oil Scout, they all say that fish oil, no matter what, it's rancid, it's not good for you and it's high. What is it high in the oil that they say is not good for you. And I think there's nuance there. It's not linoleic acid.

Dr. John Kim (24:45)

Alpha linoleic.

Courtney (24:46)

Yes.

Dr. John Kim (24:47)

And also. So there's a bit of truth in that that. So when you look at conventional fish oil that you end up having to buy in Costco or even some of the other quote unquote pharmaceutical grade fish oils that's available out there a lot of times is rancid. And also it does utilize different types of solvents to extract that fish oil out. So it actually degrades the integrity of the fish oil in itself. Especially talking about the Omega 3. Right. You have a EPA and DHA aspect of it that's basically being adulterated. And so in itself it's going to cause higher issue of damaging the cell membrane structure when you're utilizing those adulterated at least oxidized fish oils. So I don't really recommend it as as much unless you're actually utilizing SPM base or special pro resolver mediator base of a phospholipid rich fish oil that's probably coming from caviar. So if you want to get a good quality then you could go to maybe get a good quality tin of caviar and you could probably have a. A teaspoon or half a teaspoonful maybe two to three times a week. That'd be great way to supplement a bioavailable form of EPA and dha. And it's also clean as well. Or one of the product that I really like to use is body bios SPM based. So special pro resolve mediators based fish oil that's completely clean and it's not adulterated at all. And there's a special ways in terms of handling those fish oils that's been really impactful to really decreasing inflammation. So that's where the difference in that sense of it to make it short.

Courtney (26:26)

Okay. Yeah. This is why nuance is so important and it gets so lost on social media and I'm guilty of it too because you know we just want to get that information out there and you want the hits and the clicks and. But there's I think to it basically just comes down to the sourcing of it. Right. And that's, that's usually what you can say about most of these things.

Dr. John Kim (26:43)

Everything, every supplement now. I mean once I got into the whole functional medicine and when you go to and seeing different types of supplement companies, anybody could private label a supplement. Right. Doesn't mean that just because, you know you have an influencer end up having to private label a supplement doesn't mean that any good quality either. You have to look at where it's manufactured. Do they have any third party testing done? Right. Where they're sourcing all these particular chemicals are or at least the raw ingredients and those important factor. And so when I try to work with a supplement company per se, I like to at least visit the manufacturing process and then figure out are they doing the right things. And there are only few out there. And specifically you know, body bio the reason they actually use them a lot. I mean there's a whole side of the story in terms of how that helped me recover from my mold and my heart attack. But it's because I visit their company, I know how their entire process is running and as well as the fact that their is third party testing available so that it's guaranteeing in terms of what you're buying is what you're getting that's really important.

Courtney (27:50)

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Dr. John Kim (31:09)

It's not always the root cause, but it is one of the things that are often missed. Here's the reason why. The reason being is a lot of practitioners are not taught how impactful that mold can be to a human body, especially cellularly. Second, there's not many mold literate physicians and practitioners out there there. Right. And there are special trainings available. Specifically Dr. Jill Christa is amazing. I was taught under her and specifically other practitioners at the same time. And third is the intricacy and is the confusion of the labs. That's the biggest thing now you know, especially Dr. Shoemaker, he was one of the pioneers in talking about chronic inflammatory response syndrome, SIRS and bolt toxins. How's it impacting that? But in itself in terms of utilizing different types of heavy bowel secretion, type of binders, even though that can be helpful, it doesn't really address the underlying issue in terms of the cellular membrane damage that incurs from mold. And so even those type of trainings available, it's not specifically made to really reversing some of the intricacious mitochondrial dysfunction a person's dealing with. So it's not just about training, but it's also so literacy in terms of how the mold impacts the body, but also how to read the lab specifically and at the same time navigate these patients from start to finish. I think that's the biggest reason why it's often missed.

Courtney (32:36)

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I think I feel like mold is one of those. There's a couple of these, like mold and lime, for example. I would put those in the same category where they're. They're actually really affecting a lot of people. But the. The mainstream allopathic medical system, like, doesn't. They kind of want to act like they don't exist. And I believe it's more so because they don't understand it and they don't know how to treat it. And so they were just kind of like, oh, we're just going to act like this doesn't really exist and everyone's crazy. But as someone who has experienced it myself also, I have a very good friend who has. Well, actually, I have two friends, one being my godmother that I've known my whole life that got Lyme when I was a kid. And I've just seen her struggle her whole life. She's really struggled with it. And so it's definitely not one of those things that's in someone's head. But I think the problem is that so many people don't know how to actually treat it. And this is why you and I started working together, is because I got a diagnosis of Babesia, which you can explain that what that is, it's kind of like a co factor of Lyme. Is that what you explained it as?

Dr. John Kim (33:37)

It is a parasitic infection that's actually coming from tick bite specifically. But Babesia actually causes a lot more issue in terms of causing an intracellular infection. Right. So it's very hard to deal with cleaning up. But also you talk about biofilm aspects that really builds up and there's an interplay of immune dysregulation that's actually caused by those pathogens actually causes other issues in terms of inflammation. And so when you're talking about mold getting impacted at the same time actually plays around together. Mold actually suppress the immune system. Right. It causes mitochondrial dysfunction again. And then the sensing of how the immune is supposed to be helping to clean these, some of the infections out basically is blunting it. So you actually are very. Having much of a tough time to clean these things out, and it becomes very much of a issue. So when you have all the multiple issues, including parasites, heavy metals and different biotoxin issues, including Environmental toxins like glyphosates, heavy metals and such. It becomes even more difficult to navigate these clients correctly, which I also had.

Courtney (34:45)

High levels of glyphosate, which actually we need to retest that because I want to see where I'm at now. But high levels of glyco glyphosate also found mold and all that is suppressing immune system. So my body's not able to attack like the Babesia, for example, correctly. So how does someone know that they have mold exposure and then how can they test for it?

Dr. John Kim (35:03)

Oftentimes when people come and I consult with them, they don't even know that they were exposed to mold to begin with. So for me, even for myself, I never even thought about it. But then now you look back in terms of how you grew up specifically. I grew up in a very moldy house. And as namely I had a lot of flooding that went on in my parents house. Right. And there were visible signs of black mold that's growing in the basement as well. So that's already telltale sign that you are already getting exposed. So those are things that you could end up having to ask the client, you know, how your childhood home was or at least the current house you're living in. Do you see any visible mold issues? But a lot of times mold is not visible. It's behind the wall, number one. Number two, just because you don't smell a pungent smell of mildew, for instance, I mean mold, for instance, doesn't mean that the mold is not present either. Right. So those are the reason why you have to look at all. Right. If the person is actually dealing with X, Y and Z symptoms. And then if you actually have any other history of mold exposure per se. Right. And if their particular labs end up having to be showing telltale signs of mold, mold, it is probably mold. Right. So that's where proper testing in terms of urine mycotoxin testing can actually play a huge role into uncovering that. But there's also specifically a limitation of those urine mycotoxin as well, because mycotoxins or at least mold toxins. The difference between mold and a mold toxins. Should I define what those are?

Courtney (36:30)

Yeah.

Dr. John Kim (36:30)

So mold is. You have mold everywhere. Right. Either indoor, outdoor and mold is, is all part of our ecosystem. And mold is supposed to be there to recycle certain carbon metals at the same time. So if you think about going out to a forest or a park, for instance, if you actually have a set of leaves, mold is able to break it down into turn to carbon matter and then recycle it back in. So it's part of the entire ecosystem. Now there are indoor mold issue, where mold trying to compete in a living space with all their living beings. That is where the mold is trying to attack. And as well as to suppress whatever it is to survive. And mold, when you instigate it as well end up having to produce these mold toxins basically. Right. To suppress whatever being's immune system it is or affecting changes there. So this way it's for them to protect themselves to survive. Right. So there's a whole interplay of mycotoxins like trichothesins, which is part of Stachybotrys, which is black mold. You have aflatoxin, which which probably end up having to come from a lot of times food, but also coming from wet building. Like if you have a sheetrock that's wet, that could be growth of Aspergillus and penicillium, it can produce aflatoxins. Ochratoxin is another one. And so if you're drinking moldy coffee, that's where ochratoxin actually comes in. And then there are other things like gliotoxin and then zonulin. Zonulin is another mold toxin where it mimics estrogen and it can impact fertuity matters. Now, the fertility study has been shown in more of a animal models in terms of pigs and cows. But you also have to. You have to also extrapolate that data for humans because it is not ethical to doing human studies in utilizing mycotoxins. And so you have to look at animal studies and how to interpret that. And then going into how is that impacting human lives specifically. And there are studies always showing in terms of how that mold exposure not only causing mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress and such, but also has been shown to causing histology changes in intestinal lining, for instance. There's been showing of studies where it actually blunts childhood growth, for instance, nutritional depletion at the same time. So there's a lot of studies available. It's just when a practitioner is not trained to look at those things. And even for me, when I was doing my fellowship training, we always talked about. God, we always talked about. About specifically in terms of hormone dysregulation, but we never talked about mold issue.

Courtney (39:04)

Yeah, yeah. When I was in school studying nutrition and I had a more. I had an integrative approach. So it was putting, you know, western practices with holistic. And we got a whole round of it. And I Don't even think we talked about mold at all. We talked about Lyme, but mold wasn't even addressed in my nutrition program. That I thought. I thought that was kind of interesting. I want to know what are the moldiest foods that people are eating.

Dr. John Kim (39:29)

Most common will be coffee. Yeah, right. You go to coffee shops and you pick up a coffee. Yes, it's something that you enjoy all the time. But when you're buying conventional coffee, that's not been. Well, production is one thing, but then also storage and how there's process that and where the moisture getting involved, that is where the actual mold and appetite grow. So that's where high levels of ochratoxin come into play. And. And there were. I actually did a video on this particular topic. In terms of how ochratoxin end up having to impact the body. Specifically, ochratoxin can actually impact your kidneys. So there's been discussion of how, you know, the body is trying to pee it out to dilute it. No, that's not the case. And actually ochratoxin affects the aldosterone, which is key hormone to regulating your sodium level in the kidneys. That gets affected. Now you're just basically dumping out sodium and minerals on top of water. And that's another issue that comes into play in terms of how ochratoxin affecting that. There's a interplay of female, for instance, dealing with intercystocystitis, for instance, you know, chronic UTI problem. That's all interlinked to dealing with some of these mold toxins, specifically ochratoxin. And then other one would be citronin are the top two that could affect female reproductive organs and as well as your urinary tract. So that has to be really look into that. So the other second food specific grains, right. Rice, other things like lentils, like beans for instance, that could be laced with that. Corn is. Is heavy lead doused with mold. Right. So again, the harvest is one thing, but then also processing it, how it's being stored and moisture level wise, that is where a lot of the mold end up having to grow. And that's actually gonna end up having to release a lot of the aflatoxins that you see.

Courtney (41:23)

Peanuts are also really high in aflatoxins. Right. That one always really bums me out.

Dr. John Kim (41:27)

Yeah. I mean, I love peanut butter. Yeah, peanut butter. It doesn't make a difference if you buy whether a conventional peanut butter, organic peanut butter, peanuts in general, in terms of how they process and how it's being utilized. You have a High risk factor of actually getting exposed to mold toxins specifically. Afl toxin lesson from there. Yeah. Yeah. And then all that could be moldy cheese. I used to love blue cheese, and.

Courtney (41:48)

I'm finding out I hate blue cheese.

Dr. John Kim (41:51)

After finding out what, what that is, I stop eating it.

Courtney (41:53)

That's good. My parents love it. I'm trying to get them to stop eating it. I hate. Oh, I can't do. It's like one of the. My biggest food aversions. So it's probably a good thing for me.

Dr. John Kim (42:02)

It can be. But what the biggest issue is a lot of these foods. You know, we're supposed to be enjoying it, but, but our resiliency to handle these things are really poor now because it's affecting our. It's already been affected based on our exposure to different issues. And then you have a poor vagal nerve response. Stress response is another thing. All that now it's leading into and poor eating habits as well. Leading into leaky gut. Right. So when you are exposed to some of these mold toxins from food, it can lead into additional inflammation and leaky gut. Right. And specifically, it can also lead into anaphylactic reactions. And then for people who are super sensitive, it can lead into mast cell activation issues as well.

Courtney (42:44)

Yeah. Which I think a lot of people are dealing with. So I want to know from your perspective, especially when it comes to mold specifically. So I, I'm the type of personality and. Well, and I think a lot of us just in general are like this, where I, I, I want to know all this information. Right. I want to know. I'm very curious. I want to know how I can protect my health. And I want to do. And I have that I do every day, where I really try my best to keep my body as resilient as possible. I eat real food, you know, and when I, I start getting tripped up, when it starts getting into stuff like this, where I hear, okay, coffee is moldy, peanut butter is moldy. And then, you know, then all of a sudden you feel like you're having to avoid all these foods. And my question is, how, how can someone maybe take some steps or maybe there's a supplement we can take, or maybe there's things that we can do where, like, we can just build resiliency in our body, where we don't feel like we're having to just avoid, like, oh, peanut butter. Now I can't have peanut butter. I can't have coffee. It's like, how do we navigate that so that we can still have. So we can still live in the normal world. And we don't feel like we have to be living in a bubble and we can build that resiliency so that we don't feel like we have to be avoiding all this stuff all the time.

Dr. John Kim (43:52)

Yeah, that's a very tough question to answer is because I think there's a good side of information in social media and everywhere else nowadays that we could talk all about toxin, how it's being exposed to. Right. There's different pages now specifically talking about how household items end up having to be impacting your health and including mold, but also volatile gas that's coming from air fresheners, for instance. Right. So all those are really off.

Courtney (44:17)

Gassing of the furniture, everything. Yeah, it's maddening.

Dr. John Kim (44:20)

It's maddening. But you still have to live. Yeah, right. That's a part that's often not talked about. The second thing I also talk about when my clients are, is you have to build your resiliency, cellular resiliency specifically. So this way you are able to handle the stressors that's within your environment. And that's the most important part that we have to look at. So, you know, one thing that I always say to my clients is, you know, after a couple months or at least few months, I don't want to ever see you again. Not, not because like I don't want to work with them, but it's just I'm teaching you the tools and the nuances to handle some of the stressor issues. So this way you are on your own, able to handle that better. You're not supposed to be hooked on supplements and binders and all the different things and trying to live your life, that's not living at all. It's actually more in the sense that you're containing yourself into a particular bubble and also creating a prison for yourself. And that's a part that. I hate to say this, but a lot of crunchy moms, you know, being, you know, crazy about, you know, toxin exposure and such, and rightfully so, you have to be protective in your family's health and such. But in certain cases, you also have to provide some amount of flexibilities and be resilient to handle all those things as well. So what can we do? Well, number one, making sure you get clean food. That's the most important part. Right. If you can afford, and this is a part that's often missed a lot of times from my practitioner point is that can you afford organic food? If you can, making sure to do that. But there's other second option that's even better. Buy locally. There's local farmers available. A lot of times, just because you have an organic stamp on a particular food package does not mean, you know, does anything any better. You could go to local farmers where they don't use any pesticides and such and they charge you even less because they don't have that particular USDA organic stamp on it. People often miss that. And so you could go to local food markets or farmers and then you could buy directly from them. That could be really, really helpful. And there are are things that you could also avoid. You know, things like if you could avoid things that are packaged in plastics as much as you can. Again, plastics are everywhere, even including your clothes and everything else. But again, try to minimize as much as you can. And why there's such an important factor is this every step that you make, every single day in just making 1% improvement, your particular health and exposure you're dealing with is greater. The outcome and the benefit you're going to provide for your body instead of trying to calculate, oh, am I going to be exposed to this? That you're just going to drive you nuts. And especially if you're traveling, let's just say that's even impossible to do many cases, right? I mean, when you travel, not only are you getting exposed to fumes inside a plane, right, you're getting exposed to emf. And then when you land, radiation is a big one, right? When you even land, you can't even find a particular food that you're used to eating. So what are you going to do? You're going to pack up food all the time? I've seen clients doing that. But again, it creates even more difficulty to really live your life. So what's the next part? Part where we're going to build up cellular resiliency and that's the part that creating better terrain in your body. But also there's a part that I always teach as well, is that we need to really increase the redox potential. So that's why you are better electrically charged within yourselves to handle all these things. Then you're able to live a better life without fearing all the issues surrounding you.

Courtney (47:47)

Yeah, I love that. And I would add a little bit on that too. Just things that I do personally because I talk about this all the time. It's something I really am passionate, I care about. Because I think if you were just to watch a couple of my videos or like, don't really know much about me or don't listen to the podcast regularly. You probably think that I'm a psycho and that I live in a bubble because of everything I talk about, but it's actually quite the opposite as far as, like, how I live my life day to day. I just have these little things in place that I really. What I always tell myself is I try my best and I give the rest to God. And what my best looks like is some of what you were saying. I buy organic. I make sure that my water is filtered. I have air filters in my house to just filter out all that off gassing and, you know, everything else that we're exposed to. I get in a sauna a couple times a week. I think that's a really big one. And I take charcoal or, like, some sort of binder when I get in the sauna, because then you're getting a lot of the toxins out that you're exposed to, and I. I feel like that's pretty much mostly. And then, you know, I'm just. I'm mindful in general of the sourcing of my food. And outside of that, that I just, you know, I'm like, I do the best I can if I. If I test and I have mold, like, I'm on a specific protocol right now. But, you know, it's driving me nuts because, like you were saying earlier, it's like you feel like you're in this prison because you're just, like, you're taking these supplements all the time, and you're worried about the glyphosate and, you know, everything else that I've been exposed to. But generally speaking, I don't go through my day thinking, oh, my God, all the toxins I'm being exposed to, because I have these things in place that are just like. Like, they come natural to me now, and I just do them. And then I just trust that my body's gonna take over and do the rest.

Dr. John Kim (49:26)

And that's the important part you have to do on a daily basis in terms of what you do is really important. So I. Including, like, what time you wake up. So I always end up having to teach my clients about circadian biology. What is that? You have to specifically wake up when the sun is coming up. Right. That in itself not only end up having to really help to renew the sleep cycle, but also lower your cortisol stress response. Right. Second is able to help increasing your methylation process in your body by sun. Right. Actually indirectly affected by the methionine pathway and increases glutathione production in that sense of it. Right. So there's a lot more intricacy behind it, but that's really making the impact in terms of how that not only creating energy, but also creating cellular resiliency. Another thing that the sun is able to help out is the fact that it actually creates a fourth phase of water within the sun cells. Why is that important? Is that it creates a better electron, electron charge within the cells. But secondly, because of the structural water that's in the cells, it's able to push out the toxins out. So again, you're doing nothing related to supplements right now. You're just doing little by little things that you end up having to incorporate into your lifestyle, including waking up based on how the sun is coming up. Another thing that I also end up having to address with my clients and it's not often talked about in functional medicine. And I think a lot of times functional medicine is becoming the next phase of allopathic medicine, specifically.

Courtney (50:54)

You're the second person to say that to me in like three days.

Dr. John Kim (50:57)

Yeah, that's.

Courtney (50:58)

Yeah.

Dr. John Kim (50:59)

Because the impact of EMF exposure, for instance, can also impact how your cellular function is. So you become less resilient. Right. And then that in itself with EMF exposure can actually end up losing your magnesium. And so, you know, all these things ends up magnesium supplementation. Do you particularly need that? You may, but also what's causing the depletion of the magnesium is emf. EMF end up having to impact your voltage calcium channel. And when you affect that, you have influx of these calcium going into your cells and that causes oxidative stress and inflammation. And then now the magnesium getting depleted just to dampen that response and to.

Courtney (51:43)

The soil is being depleted of magnesium. Yeah.

Dr. John Kim (51:47)

So that's another thing as well. So it's not just about supplementation alone, but the food quality really matters in terms of where it is the soil is also affected. That's the reason why I love supporting regenerative farming. I know you were at a regenerative farm just recently.

Courtney (52:03)

Yes. And I was actually going to say. I meant to say this a second ago when you said buy locally as much as possible. This is something that I'm going to be talking about more and more and more because. Because so I just went to Sovereignty Ranch this last weekend, which happens to be owned by two of my dear friends. Do you know Molly and Rylan Engelhardt from Kiss the Ground by chance?

Dr. John Kim (52:21)

I never met them yet.

Courtney (52:22)

Okay. So they're. They're dear friends of mine who I got connected with years ago, just through the podcast, actually. And they are. Ryland started Kiss the Ground and created this documentary years ago. And they're now being credited. Actually, that documentary is being credited as like the number one reason that regenerative has become so popular is because they finally made it accessible and helped people really understand the importance of it. But anyway, so I went to this. I went to their farm. They just bought a farm in Bandera, Texas a couple years ago, and they had a conference there all about regenerative farming. And the whole weekend we were just talking about how important it is to buy from your local ranchers and farmers because a lot of people I don't think are aware of this. We are about to be an agrarian in an agrarian collapse if we don't turn this around, because we are. We have lost 170,000 farms, I think she said, in the last eight months, I'm pretty sure is what she said. And what happens with that. And the reason why that is an issue is because then all of our farming and our food needs are now being just pushed to these huge conglomerates, you know, the massive factory farmers and the monocrop agriculture farmers. And if we were to have something that would take out, let's say, you know, one of those factory farms with the 100,000 cows, like there's a screw worm right now that is saying is right across the border in Mexico. And this screwworm can take out an entire herd of cows. If there's one factory farm that gets hit with those screw worms, it will take out that whole lot of a hundred thousand cows and then that takes out the whole meat supply. Like, I don't think people just. Basically my point is that we don't really understand how fragile our food system is becoming because we're putting all of our food needs on these huge conglomerates. And everyone thinks, oh, well, I'll just go to the grocery store. Well, we saw during COVID what happened when the food supply chain even had like a little bit of a hiccup. Like, I remember going to the grocery store and there was nothing left on the shelf but beyond meat, like, nothing. Like there wasn't a single pack of ground beef. So my point is, is that we need to all. It's all our responsibility to start putting our money back into these small ranchers and farmers because they're all leaving in droves because they can't afford to keep up with it anymore. People aren't buying from them anymore. And that's how we're going to get the healthiest food to too, because it's going to travel less. Because guess what, the tomatoes you're buying at Whole Foods, they were probably grown in Florida and I'm buying them in California. And they just went on a truck for three weeks and they were picked, not ripe, and then they were ripened in the back of the truck on the way there. And so by the time you're buying that tomato and Whole Foods, it's probably like three weeks old versus if you can find a rancher and farmer near you, chances are it was probably picked last week.

Dr. John Kim (55:06)

It is.

Courtney (55:07)

And so the nutrient density is going to be higher for many reasons because of regenerative farming in the soil. And I could talk about this forever, but, but AJ Richards has a company called fromthe farm.org and you can actually go and find ranchers and farmers that are near you and you can start supporting local food. So you're going to get healthier food. Hopefully they're farming regeneratively. I know that they have a lot of regenerative farmers on their website. And you'll get a higher quality, higher density, nutrient dense food.

Dr. John Kim (55:35)

But also food is not just about nutrients. It also helps to send different cellular messages within the food itself, so it gets imprinted locally. So that's another reason why I actually recommend people to eating locally to begin with. Because the local food based on where you are, that imprint that's coming from the sun, also helps fortify your mitochondrial function at the same time as cellular function. So that's really important factor. So you want to eat based on seasonally at the same time as well. So seasonally, locally, that's really important. Part, part because you don't want to be eating banana middle of a winter. Yeah, it doesn't work that well. Right. Including avocado in the middle of winter somewhere in Canada. That's not specifically for you. Right. Cellularly wise. Right. And the mitochondria and how that gets impacted within those food being imprinted within your cells doesn't work well. So that's why I always like to implement more of a local seasonal, paleo based diet for these people who are dealing with mold toxicity, for instance.

Courtney (56:38)

Yeah. How does someone detox from mold? And how are most people detoxing from mold? The wrong way?

Dr. John Kim (56:45)

So I, I, you know, this is a part that's often been questioned a lot because, you know, there's, there's certain practitioners who end up having to say, you know, you only have to take binders and be done with it. Right. But binders doesn't really affect necessary cellular changes either. And here's the reason why. Mold toxins specifically end up having to cause DNA damage. And there's a whole word called DNA antigen duct, where certain mold toxins specifically, there's studies showing of aflatoxin for instance. And certain levels of trichothesins end up having to bind to the cell membrane DNA structure. As a result end up having to affect the expression of the organs, the tissue itself. So why this important factor is you can't. Binders alone is not going to fix the problem. So that's why I just want to say binders is this good tool and I certainly use it as well. But it's not something that's going to be taking care of the issue. So what do we need to do? Well, cellularly we have to also impact the change within that. So this is where I love utilizing phospholipids, for instance, like body bowel PC. We'll talk about that. But one of the important factors, your environment is one of the things that we have to always talk about. So in terms of what you were just talking about, having a good air filter is one of the good things. But also assess how your house house is because that should be your healing sanctuary. So if you don't feel safe in the house, most likely your mold detox not gonna work very well. Because in order for you to detox specifically, you have to be in more that parasympathetic resting state in order to do so. But if you're getting bombarded by mold exposure, for instance, then that's a problem. So you wanna at least reduce the exposure, which is the most important step you could create. One of the air filters I love using is Jasper.

Courtney (58:27)

I love Jaspers.

Dr. John Kim (58:28)

Yeah, I love, I love it. So that's one of the good filters available. You don't want to buy some cheap air filter, you're going to buy through Amazon, for instance, specifically you want to making sure these filtration companies end up having to have studies showing that they could neutralize mycotoxins. Right. And mold specifically. So this is really important thing. So buy a right. One second. You want to test your hand house to see where the mold exposure is coming from, what kind of mold you're dealing with. Because it actually creates a lot of story when you're comparing not just the mold testing at home, but also the mold testing might be getting for your body. So you'll be able to see all right, some mold exposure I'm getting from is home or maybe somewhere else at least kind of tells you the story in that aspect. And third, you also need to reduce some of the volatile gas you might be exposed to. Right. So you want to get good ways to. This is where the good air filter actually helps to reduce these things. Certain plants like English ivy has been shown to actually decrease a lot of the the mold mycotoxins including biological gases. So that's a good plant texture app to freshen up the air and other things in terms of EMF exposure as well. I know I'm kind of dialing in multiple times emf, but EMF exposure can actually cause mold issue to get worse. That's the reason why.

Courtney (59:44)

Why is that that so the wavelength causes it to grow or something.

Dr. John Kim (59:48)

It causes that it end up having to impact the cellular impact of mole of of electric charge for the mole tech tree to grow exponentially. So there is comparison studies of non native EMF exposure for mold versus not and specifically EM exposure end up having to create bigger mass. At the same time. We talked about how EMF impacts your cell membrane, specifically your voltage ion channels as well as. So your cellular resiliency even goes down further to handle mold when you're getting exposed to emf. That's why you want to turn off your cell phone number one, not just put an airplane mode. You want to turn it off or at least get a Faraday bag to it to keep it stored. Second is blue light exposure is another thing. I talked about how blue light impacts methylation, your detox pathway as well and how that in itself impact how well you're able to to detox heavy metals and mold. So those are things that really need to be done. So you want to create that particular sanctuary in your house. So that's number one. I didn't say anything about supplements. We'll talk about that later. Second part we also have to address is how safe do you feel in your body, right? Namely if you're feeling the fact that you have an onset of nervous system dysregulation, that's a problem. Right. So you have to also talk about how do we get you situated better. So this way you're in that more that parasympathetic nervous system. So certainly breath work, namely heart coherency breathing technique. So the more coherent that you become in terms of your heart rhythm and your brain and that breathing is going to really impact in terms of how sound minded you are in your nervous system. That also impacts how well able to detox in certain cases. If you are dealing with family traumas or generational traumas there are certain therapies they have to also implement as well. So it's not a fix it all thing, but at least getting the breath work, at least the breathing aspect of it dialed in help to self regulate that. That's really impactful. I like using EMDR eye movement. That in itself including tapping really helps to create a safer response to the nervous system. Right? Again safer. You feel that also impacts of to your cellular safety. That creates better healing and recovery for your body from mold. And that's not just a mold. It could be helpful for mast cell activation issues, could be helpful for people doing long Covid problem. So there's multiple areas could be impacted. But I just want to really help to address that. These are two foundational things that you have to look at at that also impacts in terms of how well you're able to wake up in the morning based on the sun and how well you're able to negate and block out blue light late at night. So this way you have to get a proper sleep. And melatonin production is really key thing. Not just about regulating sleep, but also help to regulate your hormone, your detox enzyme being produced. And another thing is help to renew your cells is one thing that melatonin is able to do. And then the part in terms of the supplementation is this use of phospholipids and healthy fats and different fatty acids getting involved in terms of helping to rebuild the cellular membrane at least the lipid issues within the cells to be renewed. So specifically I like using body bowel, PC, PC or phospholipids are basically 70% enough to make the outer structure of the cell membrane. Unfortunately it gets damaged very quickly, quickly from outside exposures, namely mold toxins. Specifically it could be from heavy metals and such. But these type of healthy fats is able to help to renew the structural but also help to create better resiliency within the cells. And other things like linoleic and alpha linoleic. So body bowels balance oil specifically those created better ways in terms of structural improvement in the cells, but also creates better ways in terms of creating resilience at the same time. And also preventing further downward spiral issues of lipid peroxidation. All the damage that goes on as well. So it's able to help to renew that cells. Other things like SPM based fish oils help to help decrease cellular inflammation. You could add in certain other fatty acid as well, like sodium butyrate is really important factor. Like we know that butyrate is really important For a gut microbiome as a postbiotic. But butyrate actually has a role to protect the DNA DNA, but at the same time, it's helped to act as a chemical chaperone. So what it does is butyrate comes in, simply put, to ligate, at least to take away the damaging component within the cell membrane, such as mold toxins specifically, or heavy metals to decrease these damages. And it's able to help create a basic fixing job within the DNA. And all the things in terms of help to unfold fold protein, for instance. Why am I talking about that? Because mold toxin specifically actually damages the actual protein folding that goes in the cell membrane. And if you misfold certain protein, it actually changes the expression how the organ is supposed to function, for instance. Right. So when you have a misfolding or at least proper differentiation of the certain tissues, that leads into certain disease states, like autoimmune disease. Right. Chronic pain issues, ptsd, those are all part of this whole protein misfolding that goes on. Tutka, for instance, even though it's a secondary bile, is able to help to unfold these things and prevent further stress in the endoplasmic reticulum. So within the cell and mitochondria. So those are all interplay in terms of doing these things to help to regulate that cell membrane better, help to renew it. When you have a better functioning cell membrane, you're able to absorb the nutrients better, but at the same time able to get the toxins out of the cell cells. So those are really key things that three things I implement. All the things to optimize the detox pathway, for instance, certain use of bioflavonoids to stylize mold toxins, specifically certain minerals, as well as minerals specifically like methionine, for instance, that help to further stylize other mycotoxins, like gliotoxin, for instance. That in itself also help to support the liver function as well. Bile production is another thing. Bile flow is often blocked from mold toxins. And that actually impacts women a lot more. And that's the reason why when you're having estrogen dominancy, you have to also looking at is it interplay to due to mold toxins, for instance, not just.

Courtney (66:30)

Gut dimers raise estrogen, Right? They're phytoestrogenic.

Dr. John Kim (66:34)

Yep, absolutely. So those are things that really looking at. And then the next part is looking at how to rebalance the microbiome. Right. We're not just looking at the mold, but specifically looking at how your gut microbiome is how able to digest properly. And then all the things in terms of how the specific mold issues that you see, this is where it's determined based on the lab testing you'll be doing. One thing I like to look in is a real time lab urine mycotoxin testing. It's going to really dictate in which type of of certain herbals or certain medications specifically that could be utilized to help decrease the mold and as well as to eradicate mycotoxins. Right. And there are colonizing mold issue that goes on in the gut which becomes even more difficult to get rid of. And the last thing that often that's often missed is nasal irrigation, right? Oh yeah, yeah. So because you have mold spores flowing around and then you could colonize in the nose and when you're having postnasal drift, for instance, all that mold spore and and molding itself end up having to colonize in the gut. So you have an endless amount of cycle that you're trying to break and it's not possible unless you're dealing with the exposure of it. So that's why environmentally matters. And then all the things into controlling and decreasing the mold exposures, the really key thing, all the things in terms of all the co infections like parasites and mold kind of come into play. But one of the things that I like to really address is I know it's a lot of stuff steps, but the most impactful thing that you're going to make in your health is your environment and your nervous system. Why? The better terrain that you create in your body, the much quicker you're able to get rid of mold for yourself and become much more resiliency. So last part I teach my clients is enhancing resiliency there, right? So there's all different types of biohacking tools and so such, but those are useless unless you actually have the proper foundation and proper terrain and proper readout and energy production within the cells to create that enhancing resiliency. And that's going to really help to create a better you. And that's something that I experienced for myself and as those clients who've went through multiple other practitioners and cannot seem to get better. But when we are addressing the environment nervous system and specifically in that order that I just talked about. And the method I teach is called the encore method and that's a six step process. Environment, nervous system, cellular health, optimizing detox pathway, rebalancing microbiome and enhancing resiliency. So it gives a better roadmap for people who are dealing with chronic illness and specifically mold toxins to know all right, where am I at? What are the steps I could take for myself to be stronger to handle mold but also clearing it out and have a better life? And that's the part that's off to miss. And I don't want people to be hooked on binders and supplements and all that. Those are are things that are needed for short period of time, but most impactful part is your environment, nervous system and your cellular health. That's why it's a no brainer that I've been taking body bio supplements for the last 10 years now.

Courtney (69:39)

Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology Podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. If you struggle with bloating, gas, constipation, digestive issues, yeast overgrowth, well, you may already know about Digest this. It's the podcast hosted by me, Bethany Cameron, also known as Little Sipper on Instagram. I dive into gut health, nutrition, the food industry, and drawing from my own experience, I break down what's good, what's bad, and what's the best for your gut, your skin, and so much more. I even offer gut friendly recipes. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Produced by Wellness Loud.