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Live Longer: How Mitochondrial Function Reduces Signs of Aging | Timeline Longevity
00:55:15
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- [00:00]
A
On today's episode of the Real Foodology.
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B
Podcast, it's not an in your face energy like coffee. It's, oh gosh, like I'm not crashing and burning at 3:00 clock anymore. Like, I tend to work out after work. So it's like I do a full day of work. I go to the gym, I cook dinner. I like, have time to spend with family and friends before I crash and burn. So it's just like a feeling like yourself again.
- [00:23]
A
Welcome back to the Real Foodology Podcast. We all know nutrition is the foundation of health. But what if aging better also comes down to how well our cells function? This week on the Real Foodology Podcast, I sit down with Jennifer Scheinman, registered dietitian and head of Nutrition education at Timeline Nutrition, to dive into the science of mitochondrial health and the groundbreaking compound Urolithin A. Jennifer explains how supporting your mitochondria, the true CEO of the cell, can boost energy, strength and even skin health from the inside out. From red light therapy to sleep to supplements like Mito Pure, this conversation unpacks how small cellular level changes can transform how we live and age. This was a fascinating episode. I'm getting more and more interested in mitochondrial health because I think that it is driving so much in our bodies, especially when we talk about longevity, muscle building, possibly fertility. We talk about all this in the episode. I think it's so fascinating. So I hope that you love this episode. If you could take a moment to rate and review it. A five star review takes five seconds. It really does help the show. Seriously, people ask me all the time, how can I support you? How can I help you? Just give me a rating on either Apple Podcasts or on spot. Leave a review. It really does help the show a lot and I just appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for the support. If you're loving this particular episode, if you want to tag me Ealthoodology on Instagram, I try my best to share all of them and see them. Thank you so much for your support. It really does mean a lot and I hope you enjoy the episode. Thank you. Jennifer. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you for coming on.
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B
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here too.
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A
Yeah. So I was telling you this before we were recording. I am so excited about this compound that we're going to be talking about today and it really takes a lot for me to get excited about a supplement because I admittedly I have supplement fatigue. I feel like every time we Go on Instagram. There's a new thing that they're trying to sell us on. Oh, my God, you're really low in this. Or you absolutely have to have this to change your life, like X, Y and Z. And I'm just. I'm admittedly exhausted by all of it and chasing all of this. But when I found out about Urolithin A, I was so excited about this supplement. And like I said, it takes a lot for me to be excited about something because not only have I seen the difference in taking it my own life, just seeing the science behind what it does, and we're going to dive into all of that is really cool.
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B
Yeah, well, I am the same way as a dietitian. I almost. Gosh, it's almost like 25 or 30 years that I've been a dietitian. Like, my training and my belief is food first, but food can't always be everything. And people also have different goals where they might need some extra help or they're working through some different things. So, I mean, the word supplement is literally meant to supplement what you can't get in the diet. And I had the same reaction. I. I actually started my time with, we're going to talk a little bit about Mitopurineur, Lithium, A. But I actually started my time sort of doing some freelance work with Timeline. And when I really dove into the science about it, I was like, this is very different than the way that any supplement company acts, like, the way their research is, the quality of the supplement. So I'm very careful about what I take every day. It's very minimal. But this is one of them. And I was so excited to learn more about it because I think there's so much potential here.
- [03:35]
A
That's so cool. And I love how aligned you and I both are about this, because, same as you, when I went through my schooling, I. I came to understand just how important it is to get our nutrients from our food. Because I always come back to this example of vitamin C. I find this so fascinating. There's. There's conversation around the fact that, yes, we know that vitamin C is really good for your immune system, and we know it does X, Y and Z. But what about all of the other compounds that we maybe haven't found yet and studied yet that work synergistically in that orange with the vitam that also have an effect? And I think that's such a cool concept and it makes me realize, wow, we're probably missing out on so many other things when we're just chasing this one isolated compound that we think that we need versus having it in the whole real food form.
- [04:17]
B
Yeah, a thousand. A thousand percent. And I think urolithin A is like one of those things that it's when you just recognize how integrated our bodies are with the food that we eat. You can't just make a formula of this much protein, this much calories, this much vitamins, and have the perfect diet because there's so many things that we're still uncovering. And urolithin A, I think, is something that is sort of recently been hitting sort of the research universe. And there's so many other compounds, I bet, that are like urlithin A that haven't been even found yet. So. Yeah, so it's gotta be food first, and then we can supplement in for some targeted things that we're trying to work on.
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A
Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, so let's talk about it. What is urolithin A and how does it support mitochondrial health?
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B
So we'll talk first about where it comes in nature because it's a little bit of a complicated story. It's not like vitamin C that's just available in food, and it's not as sort of like vitamin D. We make it from the sun. It's a little bit different. So we actually need a healthy gut microbiome to make urolithin A. It's what's called a postbiotic nutrient. So people, I think, are familiar with other postbiotic nutrients, like short chain fatty acids are very important for gut health. And this is similar in that sense that when we eat certain types of food, our gut microbiome will convert the molecules that we can't digest and absorb into urolithin A. So I like to say we give. We all know how important our gut microbiome is to our health. And it's like we give them room and board. They get to stay and reside inside our gut. They get to digest and metabolize things we can't, like fiber. And in the case of urolithin A, polyphenols, and then they pay us back in these postbiotic nutrients. And that's an example of. I don't think we have any clue how many postbiotic nutrients are out there that are basically symbiotically in relationship with the bacteria that's in our gut and fueling us. So that's really cool about urolithin A is. It's something that our gut makes for us and specifically from these polyphenols that are found in foods like pomegranates, berries and nuts. So foods that people really aren't eating a lot of on a regular basis.
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A
Okay. Amazing. Yeah. So it's found mostly. Yeah, okay. In pomegranates. But I read something and you can explain this further, that you may not necessarily be making the URL. Urolith and a when you're eating pomegranates. Is that because maybe you don't have the right microbiome set up in order to create it?
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B
Exactly.
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A
Okay.
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B
So it's not going to be directly in pomegranates. Those polyphenols that are in pomegranates, when we eat them, our gut, should we have the right gut microbiome, will make it for us. But no surprise, right here in the U.S. most of us are not walking around with healthy gut microbiomes. And even those of us who do everything we can, like, I eat lots of fiber. I eat lots of probiotic foods. I was a C section baby. I was breastfed. I mean, excuse me, bottle fed. So my microbiome is just like never really. No matter what I do, it's just never going to be a perfect microbiome. What we've done is there's actually been studies looking at populations around the world, but one specific study that was published was looking at residents of Chicago, and we found that really only 30 to 40% of the population even has that gut microbiome to make it. So even if you're eating all the pomegranates of the world, if you don't have that bacteria to make that conversion to Urolithin A, you're not gonna get it.
- [07:38]
A
Wow, that's so interesting. So pomegranate makes me think of. I'm gonna go off a little bit of a tangent here, but bear with me. I know that pomegranate seeds and pomegranate juice a lot of women are talking about are really good for fertility. Like, a lot of women I see that are on a fertility journey are really trying to up their pomegranate. I wonder if there's maybe a connection there with the urolithin A, because I have a girlfriend now. This is. I wanna be very clear for the podcast audiences, this is anecdotal, told by someone at timeline that they were going to look into this and maybe do studies about it. So I'm hoping that they maybe have started that or that they will. Anecdotally, I have a friend who works with a lot of clients and she Said that she has had four or five different clients now that were struggling with their egg retrievals because they wanted to freeze their eggs. She put all of them on timeline mitopure and every single one of them like double and tripled their egg retrieval just from taking urolithin A. Now I think just knowing the science behind how urolithin A supports mitochondrial function that it would be a no brainer to me that oh, of course it would help more with your egg quality. Again anecdotal, but it'd be really cool to see the science behind that.
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B
Yeah. So I mean like our ovaries and our eggs require so much energy from mitochondria. And we'll talk a little bit about almost putting like the cart before the horse around how it can help when we don't talk yet about how it does help. But because there's so much mitochondria in our eggs and actually in sperm for men as well.
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A
You're right.
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B
It absolutely makes sense that having something that's going to make energy producers, those mitochondria healthier, may have a benefit. And there's a lot of really interesting pre clinical data. So there's one study in particular, I think her name is Dr. Colleen Murphy, she was out of Princeton and she is looking again in more animal models. So we don't have any human data yet that it does seem to improve the quality of the eggs. So that is something that is definitely being researched. And just the whole link of mitochondrial health to fertility is, it's, it's there. So we don't know yet. But I love hearing that kind of feedback.
- [09:35]
A
Right. I thought that was so cool. That was one of the things that really sparked my interest initially about it. And then when I started taking it, I was experiencing all the benefits that you guys talk about, you know, like the post workout recovery. I wasn't really getting sore after doing really intense workouts. More strength in my workouts and just more energy and vitality in general. Like I was, it was really awesome. And I'm on my own personal fertility journey right now. So I was like, oh, I need to start taking this. So let's. Okay, let's take a step back. So mitochondrial function is all the rage. Everybody's talking about it now, but I don't think a lot of people fully really understand the scope and how important it is and what role mitochondria plays in our health and our ovaries. Everything. Our longevity. Can we talk about that?
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B
Yeah. So I don't know what your Schooling was like, in terms of your nutrition training. But when we learned about the mitochondria, it was like, memorize the Krebs cycle and like, glycolysis. How Powerhouse of the cel.
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A
That's like, all we learned about.
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B
That's all we learned. Right. We didn't really learn that A. They do so much more for ourselves than just energy. So while they are the powerhouse of the cell, and I do like that name because they're so powerful, I think that's almost a little bit of a misnomer because they do so many other things.
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A
Yeah. I feel like it undermines what they actually do.
- [10:49]
B
Yeah, yeah. One of my co workers calls them like the CEO of your cell, which is so interesting to me. And she is someone who's been researching mitochondria her entire career, because I think we think the nucleus as like, the CEO. So that is really interesting to me. And also that, you know, anyone who took high school biology probably has this visual of that almost like cartoon cell. And there's like one little mitochondria in there. And no, our cells, squiggly little thing around it. Like, our cells have thousands of mitochondria, depending on what cell type. So, like, your heart or your muscle cells are going to literally have thousands of mitochondria because those are tissue types that require tons of energy. Brain as well, varying amounts per cell, based on the activity level. These mitochondria actually have a little life cycle. They are fusing together and dividing apart and replicating. And they get worn out and they get recycled, all to meet the energy demands of the cell, which is so cool. And so there's just so much more to them as these sort of like static little factories. And to your point, what I think is so interesting about them is that every cell in our body except our red blood cells is relying on energy from the mitochondria. And what research has established is that there is absolutely a link to longevity and health span here because it is one of the key drivers of aging mitochondrial decline. So Science has uncovered these 12, they call them, these biological hallmarks of aging. And those are basically processes that. Biological processes that there's things you could do, like smoking, for example, and that's like putting the accelera on the aging process. And then there's things that you could do, fasting, exercise that slow down these biological processes. So mitochondrial decline is one of those key hallmarks. And considering that the mitochondria help with cell communication, they help with cell, you know, program cell death. They do so many things. They help, you know, with like damaged mitochondria can contribute to inflammation. So there's so much that's happening on the mitochondria. So that's why it's important for your brain health. It's important for your ovaries, it's important for your skin, it's important for your muscles, like it's important for all of your cells.
- [12:59]
A
Do you think that we will ever get to a point where we maybe realize that aging is not necessarily inevitable, it's mitochondrial?
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B
I think it's maybe. I think that a lot of these cellular biomarkers or sorry, hallmarks, like they sort of work together like everything in your cell, in your whole body. Right. It's a sympathy, a sympathy symphony. So I get nervous when someone's like, oh, we're just going to pinpoint it to mitochondrial health. I think it's like, how does the mitochondria play with epigenetic changes? How does it play with nutrient signaling? They all start to talk together. But I do think that we are not only recognizing the critical importance of mitochondrial health, but we're also coming up with lots of different things and interventions that can help target mitochondrial health and that might have a downstream effect on some of these other hallmarks of aging as well.
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A
That would be so wild. What if in like 30 years we realized, oh my God, we don't have to age rapidly like this, we actually just need to protect our mitochondria? Well, and I think it just would be crazy.
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B
Sorry. Yeah, no, but I think that's where we're going is to a much more sort of personalized approach to medicine where we can pinpoint some of these things. I mean, think about where I say mitochondrial health is the new gut health in the sense that like, just like you said, everybody's talking about the mitochondria these days. You know, 10, 15 years ago, the science around gut health was there, right? Like we knew what leaky gut was, we knew what the microbiome was. But forward thinking doctors and, you know, nutritionists and people were starting to talk about it was a little bit like, woo, still. And now everybody knows gut microbiome to take care of your health. And now I think we're sort of there with the mitochondria is that the science is so there and it's starting to get out into mainstream conversations. And so, yeah, I mean, I do think that in the next five years, 10 years, we're going to have more interventions, you know, targeted interventions to do different things. For the mitochondria. So it's exciting to see where we're going.
- [14:46]
A
It's so exciting. It's so cool. And I love that this has become more the forefront of the conversation. You mentioned a couple kind of obvious things, but what are some things that people might be doing that are damaging their mitochondria that they are not aware of?
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B
Well, let's start with the basics which people probably are aware of. I mean just the same things that are not good for your health are not good for your mitochondria. So if we do think of them in their basic, of just an energy factory. Right. Like giving them poor quality materials to work with. Right. Like a poor diet that's high in, you know, high in like sugars and unrefined carbs, that's not going to be great for them. Missing key nutrients. That's not going to be great for them. Not having an anti inflammatory diet because they're very sensitive to inflammation but also.
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A
Also skewing the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio and having way more omega 6s than omega 3s.
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B
Exactly.
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A
Sorry to interrupt you.
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B
Yeah, no, but exactly. So it's just sort of. Yeah, yeah. Poor diet in general is going to be not great for your mitochondria. And then of course there's things like environmental toxins. That is everything from just smoke and pollution. So they're very sensitive. Not exercising. Exercise is great for your mitochondria. So it's sort of just very similar to just what's not particularly good for your health in general is not going to be particularly good for your mitochondria.
- [16:02]
A
Yeah. What are some things that people can do to improve their longevity and their mitochondrial health?
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B
Again diet and exercise, those are always sleep. They're always going to be the foundation of whatever you are trying to accomplish. We cannot escape a good diet. We cannot escape having exercise as part of our daily routine and sleep, circadian rhythm, all of that are going to be critically important. But then there are things that you can do to up level just like in other areas of your health. So of course doing things. There's some interesting research on things like red light that can be potentially helpful for your mitochondria. Some interesting research around things like cold plunge that could be and even sauna, some of these other types of modalities. And then of course certain dietary supplements, fasting, I should actually throw that in there is actually going to be great for your mitochondria as well. And I think it depends like what again what your individual goals Are and what fits right into your lifestyle. Right. Some people fasting is just not a great strategy for them. Some people, you know, don't exercise, although they should. Right. Like, so I think it's sort of kind of finding what fits into your lifestyle that really can be that like, next level of mitochondrial care.
- [17:13]
A
Yeah. The red light thing I find really interesting. I've been getting more and more into red light therapy is the more I'm. I'm starting to see the effects in my own health. But also just seeing all the research coming out. Is it true and safe to say that red light is like a battery charger for your mitochondria? Is that how kind of how you would explain it or how would you explain it?
- [17:31]
B
Yeah. So to be honest, I am not entirely sure the mechanism, action of how it works on the mitochondria. So I do think that there is some like, similar to kind of what you're saying. So this like recharge just really helping with the mitochondria to renew. But I know just that there seems to be some research that's showing it is beneficial, but that specific mechanism, actually, I'm not entirely sure.
- [17:53]
A
Yeah. Is there a world in which if someone has been living a pretty damaging lifestyle, let's say they're not exercising, they're eating fast food, they're damaging their mitochondria in so many different ways. Maybe they're smoking. Is there some sort of rejuvenation that can happen if you turn your life and your health around? Or is it kind of. How do I word this? Like can you rejuvenate and renew your mitochondria or is it kind of like once you've killed those off, you can't really do anything about it?
- [18:20]
B
No. So they're rejuvenating all the time anyways in the background. Right. So anything with your health, like it is never too late, like you have never done too much damage. Right. You can turn your diet around, your exercise around, your mitochondrial health around like that. That's what's so beautiful about the human body is it constantly wants to be in a state of good health. So we're sort of programmed to shift into. And whether you are 30 or 50 or 70, it's not too late. You can do something. So the mitochondria just constantly in the background are going through this recycling process where. Let's just think again about the mitochondria and that simple factory of energy. So to get energy at the end of that factory, you start with raw materials that's the food that we eat and the air that you breathe. And I like to picture this sort of like complex assembly line with different workers and different ingredients get added on. And those are like your micronutrients and just some of the other things that you eat. And then at the end comes ATP energy. But just like any factory, right? Like, no matter how great the quality of your raw materials, no matter great the workers are, it's going to wear down with time, right. And then when you add in poor diet, environmental toxins, all these things, it might break down faster, right. But it's still going to break down. And our bodies, because they're so resilient, have this innate ability to break those, take those damaged mitochondria, those broken down factories, basically demolish them, use what's still usable and rebuild new, better functioning mitochondria. So that process is a big word called mitophagy. So mito, phagy, kind of basically just this recycling of the mitochondria. People who are very familiar with the fasting world are familiar with autophagy. So that's just a larger sort of more cellular process. Whereas this is very targeted on the mitochondria.
- [20:06]
A
That is so cool. I never thought about that. I know about autophagy, like you said from fasting and other various modalities, but I never thought about the mitochondria sloughing off old dead mitochondria and then creating new ones. Okay, that's really cool. That makes me feel really hopeful in the sense of. Yeah, just people turning their lives around. I also think about too. I mean, I just feel like every woman I know is on some sort of journey and struggle with fertility and maybe there's a world in which we can rene the mitochondria in the ovaries and help in that aspect again, you know, just me thinking out loud here.
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B
But no, I'm with you. I'm. I'm maybe a decade or two ahead where all of my friends are going through perimenopause. And I mean, our ovaries are the fastest aging organ in a woman's body. Partly mitochondrial decline. And so I think that there, while there is not yet research in fertility or specifically in menopause, and we'll talk a little bit about the research that is out there because of the link to mitochondrial health, I think that this is a really exciting field to continue to study. Wow.
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A
So do you think this will help more with women in perimenopause and also maybe transitioning over into menopause?
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B
Too. I personally think this is something that women in perimenopause should be really considering because when we think about what starts declining as we start to lose our estrogen. Right. Muscle is the very popular story that's out there right now. So muscle. And we have some really great research on muscle health, which is. Happens to be in middle aged women. So while I can't really say like it's going to help with menopause, I do know that at least in this age group there seems to be some benefit. But we're starting to look at benefits in brain. We know that brain health starts to decline as we start to go through menopause. You can apply urolithin A topically, right? So you go through menopause. I feel like I literally woke up one day and was like, what happened to my face? And so now topically you can use urolithin A. So I think like, it is. Is really the nutrient for a menopausal woman. I say that just being one myself and just how it's changed my life and some of my friends that I have using it as well.
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A
So I was gonna say your skin looks amazing. Are you using the Timeline products?
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B
The Timeline products, yeah.
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A
I need to get back on, though.
- [22:13]
B
Oh, yeah, you do.
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A
Wow. No, I mean, the whole time I'm sitting here going, wow, you're glowing. Literally, your skin looks amazing.
- [22:21]
B
I swear by all of our products, but specifically our. I know we just are shifting from nutrition to skin, but I think it's so fun. We all have different favorites at the company, so I think the serum tends to be like everyone's favorite. But for me, the dewy moisturizing day cream is. It just makes my skin absolutely glow.
- [22:43]
A
I mean, you okay, I need to. I need to get some more of that.
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B
Wow.
- [22:47]
A
No, I was just thinking this whole time, so it's funny, you were like, oh, my skin. I'm like, what?
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B
It looks amazing.
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A
Yeah, it looks really good. So. Okay, well, so let's talk more about urolithinase specifically and what you guys are seeing. Because what I really love about timeline is they have all the studies to back it up and they've been doing studies for. Correct me if I'm wrong here, over. Is it 14 years now?
- [23:09]
B
Over 15 years now, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:11]
A
So what is the science telling us that urolithin A is doing in the body?
- [23:15]
B
So the research really started. So I think one of the things that I love about the research team at Timeline is that they started their studies, like, think of it almost the way that like a pharmaceutical is developed where it starts in animals and is proven safe and efficacious and then goes to humans. And then those studies are published in top tier high impact medical journals. So things like JAMA Network and Cell and just really well respected journals. And you don't see that very often for supplements. So the original research really was our CEO and our founders are all like doctors and scientists and they were really trying to use this food as medicine kind of approach and to identify these powerful kind of back to what we were talking about the beginning, right? Like what else is in an orange besides vitamin C? So like what else is in a pomegranate besides some of these polyphenols? And they identified this postbiotic molecule, this urolithin A. And the way I understand it was they were working with the EPFL is kind of like almost like the MIT in Switzerland. It's just a very well respected research institution. And they were working with one of these topics, top professors, Professor Alvrex, who he's part of the resveratrol and I think he even does some NAD work. He's just a very well known mitochondrial researcher. And so they gave him a bunch of different molecules from the pomegranate, one of them being urolithin A. And he fed them to his worms. And he came back and he was like, what is this you gave us? Because basically the gold standard in terms of lifespan extension in a worm is 47% and you see that with caloric restriction. And this was about 45% lifespan extension in a worm, which is more than like some of these other things that they're studying again like resveratrol, like nad, even things like rapamycin like they're not seeing in worms the same lifestand extension. So this got them really excited to bring it into mice and then obviously into humans. So it's gone sort of through many different animal models, which is really exciting.
- [25:13]
A
Wow.
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B
And the key that they found is that it triggers what we're talking about, about before that recycling process of the mitochondria. So that mitophagy. And I think it's important for your listeners to understand because there is a lot of talk around mitochondrial health and different supplements that you can take. And they work sort of differently. Right. Like you can build new energy factories. They call that biogenesis. That's the creation of new mitochondria. You can make the mitochondria more efficient or protect it. Right. So things like antioxidants or B Vitamins, that's going to help with your energy metabolism. But at the end of the day, when that factory gets demolished or, sorry, when that factory gets damaged, you do want to kind of take it out and get rid of it out of the cell. You don't want it lingering around so you can have more real estate to create those new mitochondria. And that's very unique to urolithin A. So people are getting very excited about things like NAD or the NAD precursors and CoQ10 and methylene blue, all these other things which are all great for the mitochondria. But I like to think of the foundational piece as that mitophagy piece. You've got to clean out the old mitochondria, which urolithin A does, and it also helps build the new ones. And then when we talk about all outcomes that happen, that's really where it's stemming from that mitochondrial dysfunction, or the improvement, I should say, in the mitochondrial dysfunction.
- [26:31]
A
That's so cool. This is so fascinating. So, on a tangible level for people to really understand, what are people seeing as results from taking urolithin A?
- [26:39]
C
Yeah.
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B
Well, let's start first with the clinical studies and then I'm happy to share both my own experience and then just what a lot of our customers say. So the study that we looked at first were really in the muscle space because we know, I mean, it's everywhere in social media. Right. Myself so important to how well we age and also the muscle, because they're so energy demanding, like they rely on the health of the mitochondria. So our first clinical study in muscle space, what we looked at was these were older adults and we had them on urolithin A, either 500 or 1,000 milligrams for a month. And at the end of that study, we did a muscle biopsy. So we took a little piece of their muscle tissue and we analyzed it. And what we saw were these significant improvements in cellular energy in that mitophagy that was happening. And that's how we know it works. Because we get a lot of questions like, how do I know it works? How can I test for mitochondrial function? And we can dive into that, but there's not a great way just for a consumer or a patient to test mitochondrial function. But this is how we know in a lab setting that it is, in fact inducing mitophagy. Cool. So the next question really is, well, so what? Right? Like, what does that mean in terms of how am I going to feel? What Is this going to do to me? And so the next study that we looked at was middle aged adults and they were also randomized to a placebo or 500 or 1000mg of urolithin A. It was a four month trial and at the end of the trial we saw significant improvements in muscle strength without changing their diet or without changing their exercise. And these were sort of, I think it was like an average BMI of like 29. So sort of like your typical American. I think they had like, you know, suboptimal probably like blood pressure. We didn't like exclude people who didn't have like sort of some of the common things that you'll see in like a middle aged American adult. And so I think that's also something that's really powerful is that while again, nothing's going to replace diet, that there is help or things that you can do. And so I think that's where it's also getting a lot of excitement in like the menopause space in older adults because these are people who are starting to realize that muscle decline is happening and want to do all the things that they can. And interestingly in that study about. So I think the average age was something like 45 to 60. And I want to say like 60 or 70% of those people were women. So we know that it does also work for women in that age group. Regardless of whether you're in menopause or perimenopause, like if you're in that age group, it seems like there seems to be a benefit for your muscles there. So that's really exciting.
- [29:06]
A
Awesome. Yeah. And what have you seen in your own personal experience?
- [29:10]
B
So the first thing I noticed was I don't get sore at the gym anymore.
- [29:13]
A
That's me.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah, it's mind blowing. It's really crazy. And I. So in the past, I've been on it now probably like three or four years and I work out with a personal trainer twice a week and only recently have I like been really caring about like what I lift at the gym. Like I guess because everyone's talking about on social media and I'm like, yeah, wrong and vibe. But like when I first started I was like, he just like hands me the weights. I don't really pay attention. Like, and I was like, Sal, am I like, what are we doing? Like, I'm not sore anymore. Like, what are you like giving me heavier weights? Are you like, is this like. It just didn't feel as hard and I just wasn't Sore. And he's like, oh, no, no. In fact, like, you're improving really well. So that was incredible.
- [29:52]
A
Wow.
- [29:52]
B
And then the next thing I had had probably like, in my early 40s, I was. I had chronic Lyme. And I was really struggling with getting a lot of my, like, just energy back. I was sort of done with my treatment and, like, just sort of thought, like, like, oh, I'm just tired. That's just like, life. And I saw a friend I hadn't seen in, like, maybe six months, and she's like, oh, how are you feeling? Like, what's going on with lime? And I was like, you know, now that you say it, I feel amazing. Like, it's not an in your face energy, like coffee. It's, oh, gosh. Like, I'm not crashing and burning at 3 o' clock anymore. Like, I tend to work out after work. So it's like I do a full day of work. I go to the gym, I cook dinner. I, like, I have time to spend with family and friends before I crash and burn. So it's just like a feeling like yourself again.
- [30:39]
A
Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. That was a very similar experience that I had when I started taking it. And same as you, initially, I didn't even make the connection until I started reading about some of the side effects that urolithin A has on people. And I started to make that connection because, same as you, I started getting really into lifting in the last couple of years. Cause I'm getting more concerned as I'm aging, you know, just not wanting to deal with sarcopenia when I'm older and just seeing how important muscle building is. And so I got a trainer, same as you. I mean, we're doing, like, hefty. Like, she has me doing, like, barbell, like, like, lifting and squatting and all this stuff. And every time I'd go in, like, two days later, she'd be like, oh, man. Like, how are you doing? Are you really sore? And like, no, I don't. And I kept asking her. I was like, are we, like, not doing enough? Like, I feel like I'm burning myself out in the gym. Like, I can't lift any heavier. And she was like, no, you're making great improvements. And then I started realizing, realizing, oh, it's because I've been taking this Urolithin A, I think.
- [31:38]
B
Yeah, we hear it. So we hear that so often. And I. And energy I hear across the line. Like some people, it's like me, where it feels a little more Subtle. And some people are like, oh my God, this is like life changing. So yeah, you know, I think it depends a. I think how in tune you are. Like, some people aren't quite as in tune with their body as others and some just maybe need it more than others. I don't, I don't know why. Some people just notice these like incredible improvements. But like every day, I mean we get, get these reviews from people who have been on it and it's just, I mean there's like times I'm almost in tears because it's just so life changing for some people. It's really, really nice.
- [32:13]
A
That's so cool.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah.
- [32:14]
A
What are some things that could potentially that urolithin A could potentially help with knowing what we know about how it helps with mitochondria that maybe we haven't studied yet that we should look into.
- [32:25]
B
So there's one study that actually just came out literally last week which I think is really, really life changing. So immune aging. So there's so much in the longevity space where everybody is talking about brain health and muscle health and hormone optimization, but immune aging, if you think about the sort of three key pillars of aging that we probably should be focusing on, it's muscle, it's brain, and it's probably immune is going to be the third. And part of that is not just because I think when people think about the immune system, it's like, oh, we're getting into winter, seasonal cold and flu. Right.
- [33:03]
A
But it's I think cancer. I think other things where your immune system needs to be on.
- [33:07]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Plus just inflammation inflammating. I mean that is driven by your immune system. Right. Like so, so there's a lot to unpack there. And as you get older, right. Like you hear about people who maybe aren't. If people do take vaccines, right. Like they're not as responsive to the vaccines or you know, just, you get sick so much easier. So we just published a study and our chief medical officer happens to be an immunologist, so he's like particularly excited about this. But what we found was with 1000mg of urolithin a in healthy middle aged adults, just after one month, like almost every marker of immune health that the study looked at seemed to be improved. So it seems to just improve immune fitness. It seems to help rebalance some of the immune cells in a more positive way. It helps to reduce some inflammatory markers of aging. And the fact that that happened in just one month is pretty mind blowing.
- [34:05]
A
Wow.
- [34:06]
B
So I think then the next question is, we don't know. But will it help people prevent cold and flu? I think that's a great thing to study. I know there is some cancer research that's happening right now based on this study. There's some really interesting pre clinical data in that. So that's one area that I think is pretty exciting. Another area we're going into is brain because as I mentioned before, their brain are so dense with mitochondria. Obviously we're thinking we're doing things 24 hours a day, even when we're sleeping, things are happening. So our brain needs constant supply of energy. And the evidence is pretty clear that mitochondrial dysfunction is a key pathway to neurodegenerative disease. So things like dementia, things like Alzheimer's, and in fact, that's being studied out of the Buck Institute of Aging in California. So I think that's a really promising new frontier. I ask our researchers this all the time. I think they're also interested in gut health and heart health. There's just a lot we don't know, reproductive health, both for men and women. So I think there's, given the widespread necessity of our mitochondria, I think there's really a lot to learn and unpack and see, know, can it help, how long, what's the dose to make it happen? There's just a lot to uncover.
- [35:22]
A
That is so cool. I'm particularly excited about the areas of cancer, the neurodegenerative diseases, and the fertility aspects of it. And in my mind, I mean, I just, I always love to bring common sense into this because I feel like with science, we. We forget about the notion of common sense. Obviously we need the studies to back it up and, and we want to do that. But, you know, I just think about common sense.
- [35:44]
B
Sense.
- [35:44]
A
We know the mitochondria's effect on fertility. We know the mitochondria's effect on the immune system. Like, we know these things already. How could this not improve those areas? Right. So it'll be cool to see the studies to back it up, you know.
- [35:57]
B
And when people ask me like, you know, not just even for like urolithin a. Right. But like creatine, like these things that are, that are, like people are using pretty widespread, like the things that I want to know is, even if we don't have the studies for that, like, let's just make sure this is safe, right?
- [36:09]
A
Yes.
- [36:09]
B
I think people are taking things that are not safe. And I think that's another really important thing to know about Mitopur, urolithin A is that. That it's a very safe supplement, something that your body should be producing on its own. So there is no really higher level of toxicity that we found. What we found is the best way to dose it is either 500 or 1000mg to really get that optimal dose. Once you go over a thousand, it seems to plateau at the benefits. But I think that's a really important thing. If you're thinking, do I want to use this for brain health even though there's no research. Well, let's make sure it's safe, right?
- [36:43]
A
Yes.
- [36:43]
B
Right. And so I think that's, you know, for anyone who's listening, again, regardless of what supplement they might be thinking, if they're trying to put one and one and one together and see what you get, just making sure that it's a safe thing to do, too.
- [36:54]
A
Speaking of that, do we know if pregnant women can take it or the effect on pregnancy?
- [36:59]
B
We haven't studied it in pregnancy. I know we don't. We haven't studied it in pregnancy, we haven't studied it in children. So I, I can't say. But other than that, I know that it's something that again, should be in your body, but I, you know, that would be something you would have to talk to your own ob gyn and, you know.
- [37:18]
A
Yeah. And figure it out from there. That's what I figured. So are there, are there other compounds that you've found that people could consume with your lithium A that would maximize the benefits of it?
- [37:32]
B
So it's something that we're looking into. We don't have any studies yet that show specifically like taking it with this maximizes the benefit, but I think that it will maximize the benefit of almost anything that you're taking if you have a healthier mitochondria. So I, you know, I think when we think about several different things that we take for cellular health, like we talked about, Omega 3s. Right. I think all of these things can work really nicely and synergistically together. But that is something that we're actively looking at. What is great pairing, what might make something work better or make the urolithin A work better? So lots to learn. Research unfortunately takes a long time. I know. I get these great questions all the time and I'm like, we are working on it. Take a little time.
- [38:15]
A
Yeah, we're working on it.
- [38:17]
B
We do know. I was going to say to jump back to skin, actually, that we do know when you pair it with other Actives that you get a great benefit. So all of our skin products have, have urolithin A as the key hallmark ingredient. That's what's same thing inside your body. When you apply it topically, it is inducing mitophagy in your skin cells, making them theoretically act in a more energetic young way. But when we pair it specifically trehalose and niacinamide which are just beautifully well studied, very clinically powerful, other active ingredients, you do get this really nice, luxurious, we call it our mitobiotic technology that helps to support the skin of the health of the skin.
- [38:56]
A
Okay, that's awesome. Everybody needs to go get these timeline face products. I mean I love them, they feel very luxurious. I just, I don't think I've used them long term enough to know and see the effects. I'm very specific about my skin care and I've, I've used the same ones for like 10 years. So I've used that. I just wasn't sure I needed to know the science behind it to motivate me to use it more.
- [39:16]
B
I mean people are very, you know, skincare is very personal. Right. Like it's, it's a lot, it's texture, it's like, you know, the science, it's the cost, there's a lot of things.
- [39:25]
A
And are you actually seeing effects yourself?
- [39:27]
B
And we have. Exactly. Because just what the science says. I mean, and that's the same thing for nutrition too, right? Like I just sat here and told you how great. I feel like on timeline somebody might not. I still think it means it's working by the way, just because you don't feel it. Based on our muscle biopsy data, something is happening underneath the surface. But you know, skin's the same thing. Like I, I like love skincare and so when I joined the company I was like, I don't care what the science says about like Mitopure as a supplement. Like I believe it, I'm going to take it even if I don't feel a benefit. But skin, I'm like, I'm not going to use a skin product that doesn't benefit my skin.
- [40:02]
A
Exactly.
- [40:02]
B
I've been on it since we launched. I've been using the entire line. I think we launched like two years ago maybe. And I think my skin just continues to kind of get better as I use it. I really, really like it. I love the feel of them. I, you know, I just think they're really well thought out. You know, ingredients backed on by science. They've been clinically tested Same level of research we do on our skincare as we do on the diet and same sort of cleanliness. I think that's a lot of, you know, people. There's so much perfumes and dyes and other junk that's in skincare products. And so these are very clean. We use a. I don't know if you're familiar with Yuka. It's kind of like, I call it the like, Environmental Working Group of like Europe. It's not as popular here, but it scores skincare products on their cleanliness. And I think we have like a 90 or 91 out of a hundred. So really clean. There's no dyes, no fragrances, no paraben, none of the yuck, just all the good stuff.
- [41:03]
A
So fun. Do you know, I just asked this because I have a large audience that are moms or like wanting to be pregnant? Do you know if you can use them or while pregnant again? We have to put you on the.
- [41:12]
B
Spot again, we haven't tested them. I don't think there's a risk like there is with like a retinol, right? Like that obviously you can't use, like, I, I have not heard anything like that, but I don't know.
- [41:24]
A
Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, this kind of stuff is so tough because nobody wants to test on pregnant woman.
- [41:29]
B
Right? Because God forbid something happens.
- [41:31]
A
Exactly. So I, I get it. So it's, it's tough. I always feel bad because I have so many women messaging me all the time, oh, is this pregnancy safe? Is this pregnancy safe? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if anybody's doing these studies. That's what's tough about it.
- [41:43]
B
Yeah, I mean, I know that. I don't believe that when you apply, because I get this question a lot, right? Like, can I take the supplement and get skin benefits or can I use the topical and get benefits somewhere else? So I do hear often people say when they take the supplement that they notice their skin. We don't have any research. We just haven't looked at that. So I can't say that taking it is going to go all the way to all the layers of the skin and make your skin healthier and sort of vice versa. Putting it on topically is not going to really give you a big systemic benefit. Does that mean it's safe for pregnant women? I don't know.
- [42:20]
A
So for this compound, neurolithin A, I've always called it food for the mitochondria. Is that the right way to put.
- [42:25]
B
It I don't think there's a right or wrong. So I guess I think of food for the mitochondria maybe more as like some of your micronutrients that have help, you know, move the, you know, energy metabolism along. I think of it as more like the cleanup crew for your mitochondria. So when your mitochondria become damaged, they basically send up a little signal, like we call it the eat me signal, which says basically like, time for me to retire. And that's when mitophagy starts to happen. That's when mitochure will go in there and kind of help that recycling process. So, yeah, I think of it more as like the janitor slash or just, you know, someone who's flipping a home. Right. Taking. Taking something that's less than stellar and turning it into something that's new and efficient.
- [43:14]
A
I just got a vision in my head of Pac man eating all the little guys. So I'm like, oh, it's like a Pac man just eating all of the dead mitochondria your body no longer needs.
- [43:24]
B
Heard that several times. Oh, really? Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Yes, perfect. Wow.
- [43:28]
A
I thought I came up with that. That's funny. I don't know why that we'll let you.
- [43:31]
B
You did.
- [43:31]
A
You did. Well, I never heard it before in my defense, so it just was what I. What I thought of.
- [43:37]
B
Perfect. Perfect analogy.
- [43:40]
A
So do you think that urolithin A has any sort of effect on the hormones? Have we studied at all if the mitochondria affects the hormones at all?
- [43:48]
B
So there is definitely hormone and mitochondrial connection. Now, whether there's mitopure connection, we don't know that yet. But I mean, again, as I've been going through perimenopause and really trying to research and understand what's happening and where all the like, vast areas that estrogen impacts, I mean, there's estrogen and receptors on our mitochondria. In fact, the first step of steroid hormone production, where you're taking cholesterol and you're turning it into pregnenolone, that actually happens inside the mitochondria, so.
- [44:17]
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [44:19]
B
Yeah, so yes, I would imagine that there is a link. Now, does mitopure help? I couldn't even like.
- [44:25]
A
Yeah, we don't know. Yeah, that'd be interesting to study that too. Something I'm really passionate about is talking about plant based diets versus animal based diets. Because I actually, I was vegetarian for almost six years. And it's funny now because Knowing what I know now about my MTHFR, my specific variation of 677T and some other genetic SNPs I have, I had a doctor sit me down a couple years ago looking at my genetic test and she goes, ooh, do not ever go vegetarian. And I said, oh, I learned that the hard way. I did that. And I got very sick. And again, this is all bio individual. Somebody may thrive on it and other people may not. Although I have seen videos of midwives talking about what the placenta looks like for someone who's plant based versus animal based. So it makes me wonder, is there something going on with her mitochondria maybe that would be different in plant based versus animal? Do you know anything about how those different diets would affect mitochondrial health?
- [45:21]
B
So I don't really. I mean, I think that the mitochondria do love antioxidants because it helps to protect them. So one of, unfortunately one of like the side effects of being a mitochondria is that you are exposed to a lot of free radical damage. That's part of what just causes the damage of the mitochondria. So a healthy vegetarian diet tends to have a great amount of those polyphenols. But I think the way that I understand how nutrition impacts mitochondrial health, it's really more about the balance of fats and proteins and carbs than really, really whether you're getting that from plants or meat exclusively.
- [46:00]
A
Do you think the mitochondrial. Do you think mitochondrial health is the root of aging?
- [46:04]
B
I think it's one of them for sure.
- [46:06]
A
What else do you think it is?
- [46:08]
B
Well, as kind of mentioned before, there's these sort of like 12 hallmarks of aging that biology is really deeply studying. We know chronic inflammation is one of them. We know that gut dysbiosis, our gut changes as we age. So, you know, our body just becomes less resilient to things. But I think what I've seen and have heard some people who are much smarter than I and who really study mitochondria all the time is that they feel that the mitochondria are sort of one of these central hallmarks where they're contributing and touching how some of these other hallmarks behave.
- [46:41]
A
I always like talking about that. I think it's really fascinating because we've always been told by the medical system like, oh, this is just what happens with old age. This is just what happens. And I've always, always felt like, no, I'm not going to claim that for myself. And now obviously, I'm not saying we don't live forever. Of course we don't. That's not what I'm saying. But I don't think that we just have to go through life going up. I hit my 50s now. I just have to suffer through these things. I think there's a lot of things that we can do, like supporting our mitochondrial health, making sure that we have good muscle mass, making sure that we're getting a nutrient dense diet so we're not dealing with all these nutrient deficiencies. Then we go into osteoporosis. Like, I think there's so many things that we can do, which I find really empowering and really exciting. And I just take the doctors like, oh, you're just. This is what happens with old age. I'm like, no, that is not. I don't claim that for myself.
- [47:31]
B
No. I think the conversation is changing so much. I think people are like, they're looking at how their parents have aged and they want a different path. And so it doesn't mean that we're not aging. It's just, it's this like, concept of like health span and lifespan. Right. Like, you know, I think there's some people out there who are really trying to push the limits on how long they age. Right? Like either never die or like live until like 120, 130, 150, whatever it is. And then there's people who are like, if I live to 90 or 100, that's fine, but I don't want to start being like chronic disease and aches and pains when I'm 60 and living those last like 20, 30 years, just debilitated. Right. That's. And that's me personally. And I think one of the missions that we really stand by at timeline is just how do we improve the quality of your life in your later years? And that has to start early.
- [48:20]
A
Yes, exactly. I say this all the time. I don't want to suffer in my older age. And again, obviously, there's always going to be things that we can't control, but we're realizing there's so many things that we can control. I mean, I look at my parents. My parents have always taken really good care of their health. My mom cooks everything from scratch. They don't eat ultra processed foods. They're just, they're really healthy. They exercise every day. My parents are in their 70s and they're still skiing. They're hiking. That's what I want. That's what I want for my life, where I'm still thriving and I Can do the things that I love and be the there for. Hopefully my grandkids, they have them. You know, it's like we want. We want to take the most out of life while we're here and not be debilitated for the last 20 years of our lives.
- [49:01]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's like, I love that that message is just really, like becoming so loud right now is that we can take a different path. And we have a. We know, like, despite the fact that our environment and our food is not as good quality as probably our parents had, but we know how to make choices and we now have new tools. Things like mito pure, we're just understanding. You know, we're learning so much more about how we can age differently.
- [49:25]
A
Yes, exactly. Is there anything else that we didn't cover about timeline? Urolithin, a Mito pure. Anything that you feel like is really important.
- [49:34]
B
I think we got all of it. I think the one thing maybe just to quickly touch on for anyone who is interested in trying it, because I get this question all the time, is like, how do I take it? How much do I take it? Like, can I take it with other things? So it's sold in 500 milligram doses. We have three different ways to take it. It's really just about how someone prefers. Are you taking the soft gels or the gummies?
- [49:58]
A
I do the gummies. I love the gummies. They're so good. And they're sugar free. They're sugar free.
- [50:03]
B
They're natural dyes. Those were seriously like something like three years in the making to make something that tasted good, that was clean, that like, without using any preservatives, would like, stay a beautiful color. Like, that was a really long time. So there's the gummies, there are the soft gels, and then there is a powder, a berry flavored powder that you could mix into like a smoothie. There's no sugar in that, so it's a little bit tart, but I think it's really delicious. So all three of those, there's 500 milligrams, you can go up to 1,000 milligrams if you want. No benefit really to going higher than that. And you really can take. Take it any time of day. While our studies looked at taking it sort of first thing in the morning fasted, we've also tested like, you can take it with, you can take it without food. So it's when I put my like, dietitian clinician hat on, it's like, when is the Best time of day that you're going to remember to take it. That's the best time for you to take it. And then I think the other thing to just remember is it does take a little bit of time to start feeling the benefits. So it's not like caffeine where you know you're going to take it and immediately feel energized. And in today's, I call it like the Amazon prime world where everyone wants something tomorrow.
- [51:10]
A
Yes.
- [51:10]
B
You're not going to feel this tomorrow. You need to give it, I like to say up to four months to really give it a chance to go in, clean out those dysfunctional mitochondria, get new better ones and then start feeling those effects. And that's actually what our clinical studies show as well is kind of four months is where we start to see some of those significant improvements. But plenty of people feel improvements sooner as well.
- [51:31]
A
So that's awesome. Yeah. I just will say about the gummies, that's good to know that I can take a thousand because those are the only gummies that I've ever had in like supplementation form that I'm so bummed that I can only have two of them a day.
- [51:43]
B
Yeah, they, they are very. We get that. I get that question a lot. Like, what happens? I eat more than four. What happens? You know, I'm like, well, more than four. It's just the most expensive candy you've ever.
- [51:51]
A
Exactly.
- [51:51]
B
But like I am the same way. Like I gummy, like if I was to eat candy, like gummy is probably the first thing I would go for. So they are just like, I take two after lunch and I take two after dinner and I'll like, I love that. My little dessert. Yeah.
- [52:04]
A
I actually sent them a photo of them to a friend of mine who's I want to. He's kind of like a sugar candy connoisseur and he talk, he's very interested in all the new like gummies and stuff that are coming out. And one of his biggest gripes is he's always like, oh, this one tastes bad, this one tastes bad. And I sent him those and I was like, you got to try these, you're going to love them. It's actually a supplement gummy that tastes good. I need to get his feedback actually and see if he had them.
- [52:30]
B
But I was excited about that to hear that. I, I've actually had a customer tell me like, we should go into the candy business next.
- [52:36]
A
Like, no, seriously though, can you just make some just sugar free gummies?
- [52:42]
B
I'LL bring it back and see what we can do.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah, you guys killed it. And I will say too, the powder. So before that, I've taken all iterations because when I first started taking timeline, I believe all you guys had was the powder.
- [52:55]
B
At the very launch, we only had the powder. But then I. When I started about three years ago, we did have the soft gels at that point.
- [53:02]
A
Okay. So then I. Wow. So then I've been taking Urolithin A for a while because they initially had the powder because I remember when they came out with the gels and then I was taking the soft gels for a while because I kind of. I go through phases where I kind of get, like, fatigue from all the different powders and stuff. But I will say what I love about the powder is I was adding it to yogurt in the morning and then just adding some berries and like granola. And it's really good.
- [53:22]
B
That's literally in the summer. That's like my breakfast every day is like fresh blackberries or blueberries or whatever I have have. Because it doesn't have sugar. So it's like not adding any sweetness, but it just makes this really nice berry flavor.
- [53:33]
A
Yeah, it's really good if you have.
- [53:34]
B
It with like plain Greek yogurt or whatever yogurt you like. But yeah, I agree. That's my favorite way to take it too.
- [53:40]
A
Yeah, I'm a big fan. Please let everyone know where they can find you and also where they can find timeline.
- [53:46]
B
So you can find timeline. @timeline.com we have actually two social handles. One is timeline longevity for our supplements and then timelines. Oh, gosh. Timeline Skin care for our skin. Don't quote me on that. I'm going to get in trouble for not knowing that one. But we also have a timeline skin handle so you can get all the news around, sort of what new products are coming and all the science. And then I'm personally @jennschinemann nutrition on Instagram or Next Gen health.
- [54:12]
A
Amazing. We will make sure in the show notes that it has the right Instagram on there.
- [54:15]
B
We'll look it up.
- [54:17]
A
Thank you so much. This was an awesome episode.
- [54:19]
B
Thank you. I'm so glad. This is so fun.
- [54:21]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.
- [55:01]
C
If you struggle with bloating, gas, constipation, digestive issues, yeast overgrowth, well, you may already know about Digest this. It's the podcast hosted by me, Becky Bethany Cameron, also known as Little Sipper on Instagram. I dive into gut health, nutrition, the food industry and drawing from my own experience, I break down what's good, what's bad and what's the best for your gut, your skin and so much more. I even offer gut friendly recipes. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday produced by Wellness Loud.