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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1103 | Laken Riley’s Murder Trial: Chilling Details & Why It Matters | Guest: Dr. Albert Mohler
01:10:45
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- [00:01]
Allie Stuckey
Lakin Riley's murder is on trial in Georgia. We've got all the details about that today and why he will not receive the death penalty even if found guilty of her brutal murder. We've also got Dr. Al Mohler. He will be discussing his concerns as well as his gratitude for some of Trump's appointments in his new administration. And we will also be discussing his new Advent devotional. And so we've got a lot to cover on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com use code ALI at checkout. That's goodranchers.com code ALLIE. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week so far. We have decorated for Christmas on the Relatable set. I always love how this looks every year. And look, I am typically a decorate after Thanksgiving girl. Definitely not listening to Christmas music until after Thanksgiving. I am even one of those crazy people who will hold off until December 1st. I don't know why. This year was just different at home. I took down my decorations November 1st. I think I was kind of anxious about the election and I just wanted something to do the weekend before. So I took down all of our decorations from our attic. I put everything up. The only thing that we are holding off on right now is the actual Christmas tree and I still have one pumpkin decoration. So I am holding on to autumn just a little bit before we celebrate Thanksgiving. But we only have two weeks here in studio after Thanksgiving before we go on Christmas break. So that leads me into just like a little housekeeping announcement. We've got three weeks where we won't be recording episodes. We still will have some episodes, new episodes coming out, but the Relatable team will be taking a break. So since we only had those two weeks between Thanksgiving and our Christmas break, we wanted to maximize, we wanted to have as much time as possible to celebrate Christmas. And later we will be talking to Albert Mueller not only about his thoughts when it comes to RFK as the head of hhs, but also his new Advent devotional. So we will be talking a little bit about Christmas today. Unfortunately, we have less cheery news to start with. I have been following closely the trial of Jose Ibarra, the illegal alien accused of killing Laken Riley. So I want to get into the details of this case today and I, I want to issue a warning to you, specifically Christians and even more specifically Christian women, about the propaganda campaign and the gaslighting that is coming your way, because Donald Trump has promised to deport illegal aliens, starting with violent criminals. And what you are going to hear from the media, from some professing evangelical activists over the next few years is that this is cruel, this is draconian, this is immoral, this is unchrist. Like, this is unchristian. And I want you to be prepared for the emotional manipulation. And later, I'll read a segment from my book, Toxic Empathy that talks about this issue. Specifically, when I was writing this book and when I got to the fourth lie that's discussed in Toxic Empathy, no human is illegal, I was a little nervous about writing this chapter. Of course, we've talked about immigration many times on this show, but not as often as we talked about the first three lies in the book, abortion and gender nonsense and the redefinition of holy wholesome sexuality and marriage. And so I thought that this would kind of be a little bit of a slog for me to write this chapter. And yet it wasn't. It was actually the easiest chapter to write because I think this issue of illegal immigration is so incredibly straightforward. There is so much unnecessary and preventable loss of life due to the illegal alien problem, the illegal immigration problem that is caused by the deliberate policy positions of those who are supposed to be representing American interests. And Lake and Riley's death is just one gruesome example of that. And so it's so important as we are trying to think about this issue not from only an anecdotal perspective, but principled perspective, a biblical perspective, and as we are trying to prepare ourselves and immunize ourselves from the emotional manipulation campaign that's coming, it's so important for us to remember Lake and Riley and the details of this case. So let me give you a summary and then we'll get into some really disturbing parts of this that are important for us to know. 26 year old Jose Ibarra, the illegal alien from Venezuela accused of killing 22 year old Georgia nursing student Lake and Riley Lee, is on trial currently for murder. On the second day of the trial, several new tragic revelations popped up about Lakin's struggle to fight back, taxpayer funded flights to Georgia, and Ibarra's gang affiliation. So here's just kind of a recap of what's gone on. Prosecutor said Ibarra attacked and killed Riley while she was jogging along trails near Lake Herrick on the University of Georgia campus in Athens on the morning of February 22nd. And this especially hits close to home. I met my husband in Athens. I moved to Athens right after college and lived and worked there for several years. I led a Bible study of freshman girls when I was freshly graduated from college, and I know a lot of the life and the people that fill that town. It's a good place, a beautiful town. This is a tragedy no matter where it happens. But when you have been a part of a community and you've lived in a town and you've walked where the crime has happened and you've known people that know the person you've known people just like her, it makes it even more real and even more tangible. And I still have many friends and family members who live there and we'll get to their personal testimonies in just a just a little bit. But this has hit that community so hard, as you can imagine. Ibarra is charged with 10 counts total, including one count of malice murder, three counts of felony murder, one count of kidnapping, one count of aggravated assault with intent to rape, one count of aggravated battery, one count of hindering a 911 call, one count of tampering with evidence, and one count of being a quote unquote peeping Tom. Ibarra pleaded not guilty to all counts and waived his right to a trial by jury. We'll explain what that means in a minute and the judge will be determining Ibarra's guilt, so we'll get into some more details in just a second. Let me pause tell you about our first sponsor for the day and that is Cozy Earth. I just made an order from Cozy Earth because I am in need of some of their amazing loungewear. It is the most comfortable luxurious stuff ever. So breathable. Great for any season but especially especially these cozy winter months. You just want something to be able to curl up in and you need something from Cozy Earth men or women, related bros or related gals out there. Also we love our sheets from Cozy Earth. They are our favorite sheets. We always use them. We now can't use any other kinds of sheets because our Cozy Earth sheets are just so irreplaceable and they know that you will love their sheets so much that they actually come with a 100 night sleep trial their sheet sets do so you can try them for 100 nights. If you don't like them then you can get your money back which is pretty incredible. Go to cozy earth.com relatable use my exclusive 40% off code. That is an amazing deal. Cozy earth.com relatable use code relatable for 40% off cozy earth.com relatable code relatable so the prosecutor gave her opening statement, and it was just chilling and so disturbing to listen to as she just laid out so plainly why Ibarra is guilty. Here's thought, too. The evidence will show that Lakin fought. She fought for her life. She fought for her dignity. And in that fight, she caused this defendant to leave forensic evidence behind. She also marked her killer for the entire world to see. He had been apparently, according to her opening statement, walking around different apartment complexes, basically hunting for a woman to rape. And then he found Lake and Riley jogging by herself on a Sunday morning, and he tried to rape her. And it was so sad and just so jarring to hear the prosecution describe the state that Lake and Riley was in when the police officer found her. And I'm sorry, this is graphic, but I just think we really need to grapple with what happened to this young lady. She fought so hard for her life. She fought so hard for her dignity. She was almost completely unclothed, I mean, because of how hard she fought. She wasn't, she wasn't all the way exposed. But when the police officer found her laying there with her skull crushed in by the rock that Ibarra allegedly picked up and hit her with, at least half of her body was completely naked because he tried and failed, thank the Lord, to rape her before murdering her. According to Riley's Garmin Watch, that's a brand of a smart watch. It was a Christmas present that she had gotten that she used for running that was synced to her iPhone. Investigators found that she had placed a 911 call at 9:11am just minutes after she left for her run at 9:03. She then fought for her life for 17 minutes. So they can actually see her heart rate from her Garmin watch that it spiked for those 17 minutes as the adrenaline, adrenaline was pumping through her veins. She was doing absolutely everything that she could to fend him off. And then they saw through her smartwatch data when her heart stopped at 9:28. DHS sources confirmed to News Nation on Monday that Ibarra is a member of Trende Aragua. This is the dangerous Venezuelan gang that has infiltrated and plagued many parts of our country with extreme violence. We talked about this problem in Aurora, Colorado, a suburb of Denver where Trende Aragua has taken over several apartment complexes, has terrorized the communities there. You'll remember J.D. vance was on, I believe it was NBC talking to the host, Martha, and he, she was trying to fact check him on this story. And she said, hang on, it's. It's not a lot of apartment complexes that this gang took over. It's just a handful of apartment complexes. So that's, that tells you where the progressive elites are on this issue. They don't want to believe that this is a problem because they believed that allowing open borders and then eventually giving these people amnesty and solidifying their right to vote would then enshrine democratic power forever. They, they believe that they were building this new coalition of immigrants. And people say that the great replacement theory is some kind of conspiracy theory, but they have said so very plainly. They do believe that replacing native born Americans with immigrant populations will make the country more progressive as they will be more likely to vote Democrat. Now we saw from the exit polling from the election that actually Latino men are mostly voting for Donald Trump and almost half of Latino women voted for Donald Trump. So I don't think that they're scheme is really working. All it's doing is causing chaos and violence. All it's doing is costing the lives of young women in particular who are citizens of this country. Now here is a little bit about Ibarra's background and it just goes to show how much policy matters. It has a real effect on people's lives. Ibarra illegally crossed into the United States through el Paso in September 2022. He was released into the US via parole. ICE previous confirmed that Jose Abara had been arrested by the New York Police Department a year after he entered the US in August 2023. Not because he was here illegally, but because he committed an additional crime. He was charged in August of last year with acting in a manner to injure a child less than 17 years old at a motor vehicle license violation. And so he tried to injure a child, we don't know whom, we don't know how old. He was acting recklessly, he was breaking several laws, and yet he wasn't deported. He actually wasn't even detained. We found out during the trial on Monday. Ibarra's former roommate told the court through an interpreter that she, Ibarra and several others requested and were granted free humanitarian flights from New York to Georgia. So he was the beneficiary of Biden's catch and release policy at the border. So he was detained when he tried to cross illegally in 2022. And then he was released into the interior of the United States per Biden's policies. And then he was the beneficiary of a catch and release policy because of progressive soft on crime policies in New York. And not only that, but he was actually given the gift As a reward for the crimes that he had committed, he was given the gift of a free taxpayer funded flight from New York to Georgia where he eventually killed Lake and wr. Here's three. And how did you get to Athens in New York? We asked in Manhattan and hotel roofing Roosevelt. Roosevelt.
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Dr. Albert Mohler
In Manhattan.
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Allie Stuckey
We requested for humanitarian flight to come here to Atlanta.
- [16:15]
Dr. Albert Mohler
And when was that?
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Allie Stuckey
Ikwondo Fuezo Paulo come. Well Then where? Around the 9th 10th of September, New York City had set up a so called reticketing center paid for by the Biden Harris administration, AKA us, our tax dollars to provide so called migrants, illegal aliens with taxpayer funded one way plane tickets out of nyc. The move was designed to relieve pressure on city services due to the more than 130,000 asylum seekers. I mean this is such a racket. So what the Biden administration does is it allows these people into the interior of the United States. These people are not refugees or asylum seekers. By the way, refugee has a legal definition. Asylum seeker has a legal definition. There is a legal way to seek asylum. There is a legal way to claim refugee status. This idea that all illegal immigrants are all refugees that are fleeing violence is not true. Yes, they are all seeking a better life, but that does not give you the right to enter a country. Seemingly every other nation understands this except for the United States and other Western nations and European nations in the West. If you tried to go to China for a better life, if you tried to go to Japan for a better life, if you tried to go to Zimbabwe for a better life and you tried to receive taxpayer funded services, you would be at the very least deported immediately. But America, because we have been so manipulated by propaganda, because we have such a low capacity and such a minimal understanding of true justice, we have such a minimal appreciation for sovereignty and citizenship and rights and laws. And of course I'm not talking about you and me, but I'm talking about just in general and our politicians and how we've gotten here. We unfortunately allow people, even the most violent, wretched people in the world, to come into the United States to live on the taxpayer dime, be rewarded for their violent crimes, and to kill our fellow citizens. And we do it all in the name of inclusion and compassion and empathy. Apparently these illegal aliens, including Ibarra, chose the Atlanta area. Atlanta is about an hour and 45 minutes from Athens because Ibarra's brother had already relocated there and repeatedly told the suspect that there were plenty of jobs, according to the former roommate's testimony. Also on Monday, police officers who had Gone to Ibarra's apartment the day after Lincoln's murder. Testified about what Ibarra was wearing, which matched security camera footage on the day of the murder. The appearance of several scratches on Ibara's arms and neck, which were consistent with the victim fighting back. You heard the prosecutor say that her DNA was under his nails, that his DNA was under her nails. On the first day of the trial last Friday, the court heard from nine of the prosecution's witnesses, including Riley's roommates and several law enforcement officers with different agencies. Pray for her sweet friends who have had to go through a kind of trauma that no one should ever have to experience, and her poor parents who are sitting there. Reportedly, they left before the body cam footage was played by the police officer. His body cam footage that showed what she was like when he responded to her. Oh, my goodness. Just so incredibly sad and just the tragedy that they are enduring. Please pray for her family and her friends. The evidence that was presented included screenshots of her roommate's phones when they used the Find My Friends app to try to locate Riley when she did not come back from her run. Her AirPod they found on the ground when they went out searching for her, along with her regular running route. Police worn body camera footage, security camera footage, Riley's phone, which had a male, a male's thumbprint on the bottom of it, and the athletic clothing Riley was wearing when she was attacked. The prosecutor also played audio of Lake and Riley's 911 call, which occurred just moments before she was killed. Riley doesn't actually speak on the call, but you can hear her struggling. And you can hear his voice, apparently Ibarra's voice at the end of the call. Here's top four. I'd like the court when listening to the call, right about 55 seconds into the call, you're going to hear a voice. My goodness, you can hear him right at the very end. And this person, I mean, you're just seeing him. Listen to this and listen to this horrible crime. And he is seemingly completely indifferent. He has no expression on his face whatsoever. His eyes look completely blank. He's not indignant, he's not sad. He doesn't look remorseful. He doesn't look shocked in any way. And surely if you were innocent, you would be hearing these allegations and thinking how terrible this is and how you would never commit a crime like this. And if you did commit this, maybe you would say it was heat of the moment, which of course is not an excuse that I would ever take. But you would still think that he would be cringing in some way. I mean, how can listen to the violence that this young innocent girl had to endure and not have some reaction or response. But he didn't at all. This photo from a journalist at the Atlanta Journal Constitution of Lake and Riley's mother, Allison Phillips, with her face in her hands, just absolutely sobbing. I mean, no parent should ever have to endure the death of a child. Of course we live in a fallen and broken world as a consequence of sin. And so we understand that that does happen, that disordering happens. However, to have to endure yet again to live through the trauma that your child endured, the unjust violence that she had to suffer through, I cannot imagine, I can't imagine as a girl mom myself just how absolutely devastating this would be. I don't know how you even survive. I don't even know how you even wake up in the morning but for the grace of God. So I am praying for Allison Phillips that the grace of God would fill her life and that she would somehow have the peace that passes all understanding and that somehow, in a way that we don't understand, God would be glorified and she would be comforted through this. Now the sad thing is, is that he is, no matter what, even if he is found guilty, he is not going to get the death penalty. And there's a reason for that. And I will remind you of my defense of the death penalty in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor. You know, sometimes it's hard to transition into our sponsorships when we're talking about something so serious. But we're thankful for our sponsors because that's how you guys are able to watch and to listen to this show for free. And Adele Natural Cosmetics has been so supportive of Relatable for so long. Many of you got to meet them at Share the Arrows. 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Go to Adele Natural cosmetics use code ALI at checkout for 25% off your first time purchase Adele natural cosmetics.com code ALI so let's talk about why Jose Ibarra will not be getting the death penalty and then I'll tell you why I think he should have if we lived in a just world. So Deborah Gonzalez is the former Western Judicial Circuit District Attorney that includes Athens, Clark county. That is where Lake and Riley was murdered and a con County. She lost her reelection bid in 2024. Thankfully, it was largely because she was known to be progressive and soft on crime. And so after Lincoln Riley's murder and after it was announced that she would not be pursuing the death penalty, people voted her out. At the time of her election, she said that she was unapologetically progressive. So this was several years ago, she said, I think part of it is because I'm outspoken. I' unapologetically Democrat. I consider myself a progressive prosecutor. When it came to Ibarra, when she was still in office, she refused to seek the death penalty. Her office announced that they would be seeking life without the possibility of parole. She said that she would not allow the case to be leveraged for political gain. Well, you didn't really have power over that, Ms. Gonzalez, did you? Our utmost duty is to ensure that justice is served and that the victim's family is an integral part of the deliberation process. We understand that there will be those outside this office who will disagree with our decision and seek to exploit this case for political gain. However, the integrity of our judicial process and the pursuit of justice must always transcend political considerations. Of course, it is a political consideration not to pursue the death penalty for capital murder. Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, he's a Republican, he expressed doubts about her ability to handle Ibarra's case. State Representative Houston Gaines stated, I have a real concern about her ability to handle this case. Case. She's not ready to handle this case because of her progressive and soft on crime history. Gaines added that there is an effort underway seeking alternatives to having Gonzalez handle this this case. She ran for office on a platform including a call to end cash bail and eliminate the death penalty. The end of cash bail and places like New York City have absolutely been devastating. The recidivism rate is, is just insane anyway, even without the end of cash bail. But we've seen an increase in violent crime due to the end of cash bail in large cities that have implemented that, that policy. She has a poor prosecutorial record. She's got a history of procedural errors. And so she's corrupt, she's incompetent, she's far left. And so that is why she did not seek the death penalty. He probably, I hope he will get life in prison without parole. But I will remind you of my defense of the death penalty, because this actually surprises a lot of people, even a lot of Christian conservatives. I will remind you that our intolerance for the death penalty as a country is a modern phenomenon. This is a change that has occurred as America has become more progressive. And it's been billed to you by some conservatives as more of like a libertarian position that the state shouldn't have the power to decide who lives or dies. But it's not actually the state deciding that. This is after due process and someone has been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubts that they may get the death penalty for certain crimes. And I understand some procedural objections, or if you say that you don't like how America in particular implements the death penalty and so you are against it here in the United States because you think that it is not consistently enough applied, it's not fairly enough applied. But I never buy the argument that we should be against the death penalty per se, or against the death penalty in general as a principle. And some point out that this is hypocritical, or they might say this is hypocritical if you're pro life. No, it's entirely consistent. I am against abortion for the same reason that I am for the death penalty, because I believe in the protection of innocent life. Because innocent life, the lives of innocent image bearers, are so important and so valuable and so precious that we should never snuff them out intentionally. That's abortion. And the only just and proportionate punishment for taking the life of a valuable image bearer is execution. And this is not my idea. This is me agreeing with God, the God who is love first, John 4:8. The God who created the heavens and the earth. Therefore he is the authority over all of. And what does he say in Genesis 9, 6? He tells Noah that the only just punishment for capital murder is the death penalty. It is not because he is cruel. It is not because he is merciless. No. He gives his reason for why the death penalty is a just punishment for murder. Because man is made in God's image. So that means because man is so valuable, because people matter so much, murdering them is a huge deal, a big enough deal. To put the person to death who did it. That is what the God who is love sets. Now, some people will also point out, well, you know, David didn't get the death penalty and Moses didn't get the death penalty. Yes, there are exceptions throughout Scripture where God divinely intervenes and shows mercy to particular people for his purposes. But if he prescribes the death penalty in Genesis 9, this is pre Israel, pre civilization, pre Mosaic Law. So this is not just a prescription for that time and that culture. If he prescribes that and if he says that is the just penalty because we are made in God's image, that still applies today. Some people also point out, well, Jesus said that we should turn the other cheek. Roman says that we shouldn't seek vengeance because vengeance is God's. That's talking about interpersonal relationships. That is not talking about the state's responsibility to execute justice. And by the way, all of God's words are Jesus's words too, because Jesus is God. Romans 13 says that the role of the government which has been instituted by God is to execute justice, is to reward good and punish evil, and that the state does not bear the sword in vain. The sword is a symbol of execution, not just general justice. And by the way, if your logic is that, well, Jesus says that we should turn the other cheek. Jesus says that we should forgive and so we shouldn't support the death penalty. But by your logic, that means we shouldn't dole out any punishments for any crime. That means that we also shouldn't put them in jail because we're called to forgive and turn the other cheek. That means we also shouldn't find people, there shouldn't be any consequences whatsoever for breaking the law. According to your logic, the only logical position is that Jesus wasn't talking about the role of the state and the role of the law there, that we serve a God of order, we serve a God of justice. We serve a God who hates evil and loves people, who understood from the very beginning that we need order, we need parameters, we need definitions, and we need laws to survive and to thrive. That is because God believes in protecting the most vulnerable, protecting the innocent. And so Ibarra, not getting the death penalty is a dereliction of the duty of the state. I think that the death penalty should be used consistently across the board when it comes to crimes like premeditated murder. I also think sex trafficking, I think rape should also qualify as that. It can't constitutionally. The Supreme Court has ruled on that for now. But I think that that it would absolutely disincentivize crimes like this. I don't just want this person to be deported so he can sneak back in and do this again. I think that he should be executed for this. If he is proven guilty. That is justice according to the God who is justice. And as for the argument also that, well, we should give people as much time as possible to be redeemed and to be saved, yes, everyone can be redeemed. Of course God can reach anyone. But God doesn't need like extra time. He exists outside of time and he is going to save whom he wants to save, when he wants to save them. It's not like God needs to be given room. God is completely sovereign. He is all powerful. He does not expect us to curtail earthly justice so he can get his job done. He doesn't need us to do that. What he needs us to do is do the best job we possibly can to protect the most vulnerable. And that means punishing those who hurt the most vulnerable in a way that is proportionate. In this case, death penalty is proportionate. So also, as we mentioned earlier, this is a bench trial. So he waived his right to a jury trial, meaning that a judge will determine his fate, not the jury. He may have waived his right to a jury trial as a strategic decision to avoid the jury potentially being swayed by media coverage, public opinion, and the emotional nature of the case. According to CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson, defendants opt for bench trials in some cases because a judge is perceived to be able to dismiss negative publicity and press coverage and handle the facts of violent crimes with less emotion than a jury. A bench trial would also avoid any issue regarding an appeal by removing any claim the defendant might have regarding the propriety of a venue change or tainted jury pool. And so it's actually kind of also a risk for Ibarra in this case. I talked to a local family member. I just kind of wanted to get her perspective on what her community and what her friends are saying. This is a pretty small, tight knit community. And here's what she said. She said, I'd say everyone here just wants justice immediately. We are all invested in this and feel like it hit us personally. I had college girls in my Bible study group that had connections to her. I remember when it happened. They canceled everything that night. Had prayer groups on campus at our church and other churches. They were scared to go out, devastated for the loss, especially since they knew people who knew her. I feel sure he asked for a bench trial because there's no way he could get a Neutral jury here. I'd say this, this case is one of the main reasons Deborah Gonzalez was voted out so easily this time. She's also the reason the death, death penalty is off the table. It's especially close since as a former UGA student, I did many things alone and in groups at the intramural fields. Feels like we have been very violated in a space that should feel safe and relaxing. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens with this. We're hoping that he is sentenced to life without parole since that that's the maximum punishment here. A little bit about the judge. Superior Court Judge H. Patrick Haggard. He alone will determine this verdict. As we've already said, he was appointed to the Superior court bench in 2011 by Republican Governor Nathan Deal. He's had a lot of high profile cases. Judge H. Patrick Haggard has openly discussed his awareness of racial disparities in the justice system. It shouldn't say awareness, but his belief in racial disparities in the justice system. He mentioned that sentencing decisions often reflect systemic biases and express a personal shift in how he approaches cases involving prior offenses. He acknowledges or he believes that there is complexity. He stated this once. When I heard someone had 20 priors, that was all I needed to hear. But now I consider factors like when those past offenses occurred and how serious they were. I mean, I don't think it's wrong to consider when past offenses occurred and how serious they were. But my concern is with him believing that there are systemic racial biases in our justice system without providing the evidence of that disparities don't prove discrimination. And so I just hope that he is truly objective here, that he is impartial, that he is not considering this man just because he is non white or an illegal immigrant on the side of the oppressed, that he doesn't go easy on him because of that. This guy deserves maximum punishment. Unfortunately, because they are not seeking the death penalty, our tax dollars are going to continue to pay for this person. I wish that he could be deported to Venezuela and then be imprisoned there, or maybe they would seek the death penalty there. But unfortunately he's going to stay on American soil and at least he will be behind bars. But I just hope that illegal immigrants, especially those who are inclined towards violence, which unfortunately, there are just too many stories like this. I hope that they take note that this is a new era, that people's tolerance for this and for illegal immigration in general is extremely low, lower than it has been in decades. And we have elected someone who has Also put someone in place who has very little tolerance for this. Tom Homan is going to be Trump's border czar. He was a former acting ICE director and he is a hardliner when it comes to immigration. Here's top five.
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Tom Homan
This was preventable. This administration came in and unsecured the most board the most secure border we had on purpose. This person was not only released into the United States, he was given a free airline ticket to the city of his choice. He was given free lodging. He was given free food. Right now his attorney is being paid by the United States taxpayers. They didn't have to do this. We had the most secure border in my lifetime. When President Trump had illegal immigration down 90%, when 90% less people were coming, how many young children were getting married, weren't getting married by illegal aliens? How many pounds of fentanyl didn't get into the country to kill a quarter million Americans? How many women and children weren't sex trafficked because we're up 600% in that? How many no inspectors, terrorists didn't cross the border. This administration came in, open the border, all these bad things happen there, need to be held accountable. What they've done is borderline treasonous in my opinion.
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Allie Stuckey
I mean, I'm really glad that that guy and not Kamala Harris is going to be in charge of the border. Kamala Harris famously said over and over that she doesn't even believe that crossing the border illegally should be a crime. So change is happening in a really good way. I mean, he just laid out really well how, how serious the implications are of policy decisions. Politics matter because policy matters. Because people matter. Politics affects policy. Policy affects people. People matter. Lake and Riley mattered. The difference between a crime committed by an illegal alien and a crime committed by a citizen is that every single crime committed by an illegal alien is, is preventable. We already have enough criminals who are citizens. We don't need to add more. I have got one more thing to say about this to just again prepare you, immunize you as much as I can against the upcoming onslaught of emotional manipulation and toxic empathy that you're going to hear on this subject. Let me pause first tell you about our third sponsor, Seven Weeks Coffee. This is an amazing company, another Christian family owned company. They donate a percentage of every sale of their coffee to pro life pregnancy centers across the country. They've already raised over half a million dollars for these pregnancy centers. This has translated into saving over 5,000 little lives because these pregnancy centers are offering free resources, free sonograms. Free prenatals, information about the adoption process and how to enroll in Medicaid. So many different things, education classes that they're offering. And seven Weeks Coffee is partnering with these organizations to save as many lives as possible. But they also just make and sell amazing coffee. This is like top notch, highest cleanest coffee that you can buy. That's why I love it. I can trust the quality of it, that it's going to be free of any toxicity that unfortunately is prevalent in a lot of popular coffee brands today and so you can feel good all around. Join their Heartbeat club. Get your box of coffee to your front door every month. When you go to sevenweeks coffee.com and use code Allie, you save an extra 10%. Go to seven weeks coffee.com code Ali. Something that Homan discussed also in that interview on Fox that you just listened to is that there are more than 448,000 unaccompanied immigrant children who were transferred to HHS custody from fiscal years 2019 to 2023. But HHS cannot account for them now. More than 32,000 of those failed to appear for their immigration court hearings. And so you'll remember that when Trump was president, you heard from a lot of professing Christians that he's putting kids in cages, that he's separating children from their parents. That happened under the Biden administration. That happened under the Obama administration. Those so called cages that were created, that were lambasted while Trump was president were actually built by Obama's dhs. Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Trump did in his four years, one term of Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Donald Trump did. Bill Clinton was famous or infamous, depending on how you look at it, for his mass deportations. And so Trump really, yes, he's helped secure the border, but he didn't deport any more illegal aliens than Biden or Obama did. And yet that's all you heard about. And now you're hearing that he has some fascist scary unchrist like plan to deport illegal aliens. And they're not going to remind you of what Obama did, of what Bill Clinton did, of what the Biden administration did. They're going to get you to focus on one story that pulls on your heartstrings to make you think that this is a draconian white supremacist plan to try to harm vulnerable families. And you know, I, I actually don't have time. I was going to read a whole segment from my immigration chapter, but I don't have time to get through all of it. But Let me just tell you quickly. I'll summarize what it's going to look like. Every chapter of my book starts in this way. I actually tell you a heart rending story from the left wing perspective that at the end of it is supposed to persuade you to the progressive position on gender or on marriage or on immigration and so on immigration. I tell you a real story of a woman named Maribel Diaz. She was deported under Trump's first presidency. She was a mom of several children. She was separated from her kids and she didn't know when she was going to be reunited with them because she entered illegally, she built a life with them in Fairfield, Ohio. But because she was there illegally, she was deported and separated. And this story was originally told by USA Today. And this is the only kind of narrative that is going to be highlighted. And yes, we feel empathy for Maribel and we should. I understand we can have a compassionate perspective of how terrible it would be to be separated from your children. And it even tempts us to think, well, maybe that consequence is a little bit too harsh. But what the media doesn't remind you of the other side of this moral equation, that the same illegal immigration policies that allowed Maribel to enter the United States with her children also allow people like Jose Ibarra to come into the country and murder someone like Lake and Riley. These policies also allow the murder of someone like 12 year old Jocelyn Nungaray, who was brutalized and killed by two Venezuelan migrants in June in Texas. They also allow for the rapes of children in places like Nantucket, where ISIS Boston office arrested four illegal aliens who were charged with raping and sexually assaulting children. We're talking 10 year old children, young children. These policies also allow for the murder of people like Kate Steinle, who was shot in the back in San Francisco in 2015. Her last words in her father's arms were help me, Daddy, before she breathed her last. All of these people should still be alive. These were preventable crimes. This was preventable violence. These are the stories that most of the mainstream media, progressive activists, the social justice Christians on your timeline will not tell you. They will only tell you the sad stories of the people who are here with their families who are getting deported. First of all, those people aren't going to be prioritized on the deportation list, but they did commit a crime, they did break the law. They are here illegally. And it's not my first priority to have the mom of three deported. It's definitely my highest priority to have violent criminals deported. First and to secure the border to keep people out. But at the end of the day, a nation's sovereignty matters. You don't have walls and doors and locks on your doors because you hate your neighbor. You have these things because you love your kids, because you love your family. If you were to allow strangers into your home, unvetted to sleep next to your children, that would not make you a compassionate person. That would make you a cruel parent. And nations are like families. Our government has a right and a responsibility to its own citizens first, period. That is righteous and good and compassionate in every country has that right and responsibility. And we can talk about our refugee and asylum policy again. There is a legal way to claim asylum. If you're truly seeking asylum, you're supposed to go to the next available country. You're not supposed to pass by all of these other countries to get to the country that you want to. Economic needs are not a justification for coming to America illegally. Or else every single person on earth would have a justification for coming to America illegally. So if you love your neighbor, you will be against the unvetted infiltration of illegal immigrants. You can't love your neighbor and support that. It's one or the other. We want the gospel to go out to all people. All people are made in the image of God. We want good things for them. But God created countries. He created governments. He created the ideas of the idea of borders. He created laws. All these things are for our good. He is a God of order who placed us in a garden, not in a jungle. And he wants order for us. And the government should be an instrument of God's good order. So continue to pray for justice in this case and thank God for President Trump. And may we see good changes and may there be fewer Lake and Riley's because of those changes. All right, now we are going to talk to Dr. Albert Mohler. He has been a guest several times before, and we so appreciate him. His podcast, the Briefing, and he is also the head of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and he is here today to talk about Trump's HHS appointment, RFK Jr. As well as just looking to the future of the Trump administration and how we as Christians navigate this, as well as his new Advent devotional that is out now. Without further ado, here is Dr. Mohler. Dr. Mohler, thanks so much for joining us again this time in person. I appreciate it, Allie, Beth, it's a.
- [50:59]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Great honor to be here with you. Thank you.
- [51:00]
Allie Stuckey
Yes, well, I've been listening to the briefing as I do every week. And you've raised some concerns about President Trump's recent appointments. And of course, we both share the celebration that Kamala Harris did not win the presidency. There's a lot to be happy about, a lot to be happy about. But can you express some of your concerns, especially when it comes to, say, a pro abortion guy like RFK Jr.
- [51:28]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Well, I think it's not only a pro abortion guy like RFK Jr. But as you know, at the Department of Health and Human Services, that's the proposal. And so there's just a great deal of direct supervision and policymaking. You know, a lot of legislation is actually defined as assigning the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services to determine this particular issue. So it's an enormously powerful policy position on issues that relate to life and certainly across the board there. So with RFK Jr. I like the fact he's such a disruptor. I like that. I can see why President Elect Trump saw great promise in that. I also think there's just the political reality for a Donald Trump of having a member of the Kennedy family defect from the tribe and stand with him. So I don't underestimate the power of that. I also think that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Has been helpfully disruptive in some ways, but when it comes to the issue of abortion, you know, he's at least at times indicated absolute support for a woman's right to abortion as he construes it, and to control her own reproductive health all the way up until the moment of birth. Now, he's also said some other things. So, Alibeth, I remember back in the 1980s, when Ronald Reagan accepted the Republican presidential nomination, he chose as his Vice President George H.W. bush. George H.W. bush, who would later become president, was in a very pro choice, if not pro abortion position the night before he became Ronald Reagan's running mate. When he became Ronald Reagan's running mate, he articulated his commitment to a pro life position. And I would have to say mostly over the course of the last the next 12 years, he actually acted consistently with that. So I think what we should demand is an on the record statement from the Secretary of Health and Human Services designee, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Of a pro life position. And then we should expect him to work out of that and to be consistent with that. I don't think that's too much to ask. I don't think it's too much to ask of Kennedy. I don't think it's too much to ask of President Trump.
- [53:42]
Allie Stuckey
And we can simultaneously acknowledge that this is quite the upgrade from Xavier Becerra. Of course, he was Attorney General of California, rabidly pro abortion. He helped the prosecution of the pro life journalist David D. Leiden, helped Kamala Harris carry her legacy of punishing pro life pregnancy sinners. And then the Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services is a guy named. Gosh, what's his last name? I know that he. Well, he identifies or he thinks that he is the opposite sex. Richard. I can't. I can't even think of his last name right now. I think he goes by Rachel Levine.
- [54:20]
Dr. Albert Mohler
That's right.
- [54:20]
Allie Stuckey
Yes, that's. And so we have a major upgrade, Justin, that we have someone who at least acknowledges biological facts about the human body.
- [54:28]
Dr. Albert Mohler
That's right.
- [54:29]
Allie Stuckey
But stop short when it comes to the facts of the value of human life inside the womb. And as you articulated, which I don't think a lot of people understand, that hhs and the guy who runs the HHS helps direct abortion policy, especially if there are executive orders, like President Trump, for example. He issued an executive order that past presidents have about the Mexico City policy. Exactly. No international funding of abortion. And because we've had conflicting statements from rfk, he told Sage Steele on her podcast several months ago that he believes in a woman's right to choose through all nine months. He told Ben Shapiro that, well, actually, I believe in some restrictions after the first three months because he was campaigning. We don't really know where he stands. And so it's just, it's hard to say where he is going to end up. And that's why we should be concerned, even while acknowledging this is an upgrade.
- [55:26]
Dr. Albert Mohler
You know, Alibeth, I've been in this context for a long time, and as a Christian, what I would want is someone with the right convictions in his or her heart and then to follow that through with right action. But in the political process, I will settle for right action. I will settle for a correction, just as you indicated, from the Becerra HHS to the Kennedy hhs, following consistent pro life policies, I'm going to count this as a win. If we can get that articulation and if that will be followed through with action. And frankly, in that sense, Robert Kennedy Jr. Can become something of a hero. He has that opportunity, and I hope the President Elect kind of makes clear he pushes him in that direction, that would be a great win.
- [56:11]
Allie Stuckey
Yeah, I think so, too. And RFK has kind of parroted the line that we even hear from some professing Christians that while the law really has no place in the abortion debate. Let's just make America healthier, a better place to live, which, of course, I want America to be healthier and a better place to live. I want people to want to have babies, of course, abortion, unthinkable, all of that. But if these babies are image bearers of God, if they are people, then they deserve legal rights, too.
- [56:38]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Well, they do. And every single government defines a human person in some way, by some definition. Someone gets to show up in court, someone gets conscripted into the army, someone can sue someone else. A person is a very important legal definition.
- [56:52]
Allie Stuckey
Yep, that's exactly right. What are your thoughts as we are entering into this, this new era? We've already seen kind of conflicting reactions to the Trump victory, even among those that we might call conservative evangelicals. Some telling people to temper their celebrations, others reminding us truthfully that Trump is not our savior and that we don't trust in the government. But how happy should we be? What does it look like to kind of claim this victory cautiously, optimistically?
- [57:25]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Well, I'm pretty openly, and perhaps with less caution, optimistic and thankful that Kamala Harris is not the President Elect of the United States. I think that prospect was even more ominous than many conservative Christians had recognized or articulated. You gave some really good warnings about that, and frankly, I think the American people sensed that. But that means I'm just very, very happy we're not looking at the prospect of a Kamala Harris administration. I am happy that we are looking at the opportunity for an enormous across the board political disruption. I want that to be a strategic disruption, and I don't want it to be a four year disruption. I want it to be a lasting disruption. You know, as a conservative, I am thankful whenever we get to hold ground and not lose it. And yet I don't think just holding ground for four years is our greatest hope. We're hoping to hold ground for a lot longer than that. But President Trump has and deserves an awful lot of deference. He has the authority to name his cabinet, and, you know, the cabinet's going to look like the way he thinks. And I think that's what we see. This is the way he thinks. He sees something in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. He sees something in so many other people. And he says, I'm going to put that person in that role precisely because that's going to be a very significant disruption from everything that comes before. I admire that part. I just think we have to have a baseline of qualification for those persons. And we, as Christians, we can't Just become cheerleaders for a regime. We have to keep our arguments straight and consistent.
- [59:04]
Allie Stuckey
Last sponsor for the day is Pre Born. So we've been talking about the importance of Christians, even as Trump is in office, to continue to fight for the dignity of unborn children, continue to fight for the policies that protect the most vulnerable. And Pre Born is this large network of clinics that is on the front lines trying to save these babies and to love and serve their parents. They offer things like free ultrasounds, all kinds of resources to help these moms and babies in need. They want to do everything possible to persuade these moms to choose life. And you can be a part of that. You can partner with Pre born by donating whatever you can. $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound appointment, one ultrasound session. And so if you go to preborn.com ali maybe $28 is what you can do. Or maybe you can donate $15,000. $15,000 would help them cover the cost of an entire ultrasound machine, which would save countless lives. Women are so much more likely to choose life when they can see and hear their baby. Go to preborn.com ali. Donate whatever you can today. That's preborn.com ali how do you think the church is doing when it comes to clarity on the biggest issues at stake? We're talking about the Genesis 1 issues when it comes to abortion, when it comes to gender. We saw plenty of pastors courageously speak out about these things, not just in the context of the election, but in general, because these are things that Christians have always cared about, will always care about. Do you think the church is heading in more of a direction of courage and clarity as a whole?
- [60:47]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Well, Yvette, that's a brilliant question, and I want to answer it honestly by saying yes, no, and maybe. And so what I think we're seeing is a further sorting of churches and a sorting of denominations. But churches in particular, where I think you've got pastors who understand that responsibility, and I think most of them understand it more deeply, more urgently, more passionately, and perhaps even more intelligently and more wise in terms of how they're applying these things. I think you have others that are moving more and more. I think we always see congregations and some leaders moving into kind of a mushy middle in order to kind of move further out later. And so I think we're seeing that. And, you know, I think the 2024 election and the lead up to it turns out to be a pretty significant CAT scan of evangelicalism.
- [61:36]
Allie Stuckey
Yeah, I think so. I think so, too. And I'm just hoping, because I remember the first four years of Trump's presidency. There was a lot of division, a lot of contention during those years just about President Trump and whether he represented white supremacy, whether those who voted for him really believe in biblical justice. And so many debates surrounding that. And I'm wondering if it will be the same this time. He was almost, like, hating Donald Trump, almost became within and outside of the church, a virtue, signal to show, you know, my hope is in heaven, my citizenship is in heaven, and I don't care about, you know, the petty things going on in this world. And I think it caused a lot of confusion and unnecessary dissension.
- [62:25]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Ellie? Beth, I'm not certain how honest some of that is, or to put it, I guess, more honestly, in my own words, I think a lot of that's dishonest, and a lot of it's posing, and a lot of it's absolutely predictable. There are the same people who said the same things four years ago or six years ago. They're going to say it again. And honestly, you know, I voted for Donald Trump. Millions and millions of evangelical Christians voted for Donald Trump. We were also voting against Kamala Harris. The idea that if you voted for someone, you have bought everything they do and everything they say and everything they represent is simply ridiculous. But at the same time, we need to be very clear. There are those who actually don't want to see the disruption that Donald Trump's going to bring. They don't want to see a tightening of issues. They don't want to see some of the hard decisions made. And so I think we need to buckle our seatbelts. I think the kind of. Kind of evangelical opposition that we saw during the first Trump administration, I think it's gonna be amplified many times over in the next four years.
- [63:28]
Allie Stuckey
And this is a little bit of a random question that I just thought about because I was listening to your episode of the Briefing this morning. When it comes to foreign policy specifically and President Trump, maybe this is not something that people had top of mind, necessarily when they were voting. And yet, of course, it is an important issue when we're looking at something like Russia and Ukraine, what do you anticipate may be the change there from Biden's policy to Trump's policy?
- [63:55]
Dr. Albert Mohler
I think one change will be from dishonesty to honesty. I mean, you still have the claims being made that we're going to support Ukraine until it regains all of its territory. Well, that would include the Crimean Peninsula, lost years ago. The American people are not going to support American troops on the ground. America going to war with Russia over Ukraine. That doesn't mean that there's not a lot at stake in Ukraine and that we should stand with the Ukrainians. But it's going to be a very honest, I think, change with Donald Trump because he's going to walk in and he's going to say we need to define exactly what the best settlement will look like for Ukraine. And we can't just look to Ukraine to bleed out over the course of the next several years the way it has for the last 1,000 days. And so I think President Trump just cuts through the old foreign policy establishment. And frankly, a lot of the posturing that takes place in Western world leaders, I think they know it's coming and I think they're bracing themselves for it. I don't think, by the way, all the people in Ukraine fear it. I think some of them are looking for a definition that's honest.
- [65:02]
Allie Stuckey
They've been languishing for a long time. As you said, 1,000 days. Wow. Well, I have a lot to look forward to. I'm excited about a lot when it comes to the Trump presidency, even with someone like rfk, who obviously I vehemently disagree with when it comes to abortion. I do appreciate his desire to root out corruption. And I do think much of the medical establishment in the United States unfortunately, is corrupted. We saw a lot of that during COVID You talked about going from dishonesty to honesty and foreign policy. I hope that's also true when it comes to medical and health policy in.
- [65:38]
Dr. Albert Mohler
The U.S. i have a couple of rays of hope there. One of them is someone like RFK Jr. As Secretary of Health and Human Services. That would be a very good thing. I think he will press hard on this. The other thing is that Senator Rand Paul of my own home state of Kentucky is now in a position as chair of a Senate committee to press the investigation into Covid. He's already written a book on it. He is a medical doctor himself.
- [66:04]
Allie Stuckey
Yes.
- [66:04]
Dr. Albert Mohler
I think he's going to press for an awful lot of answers. And I look forward to that process.
- [66:09]
Allie Stuckey
Yes. And government efficiency that. That department, too. I am hopeful about that. I've even seen some bipartisan support of it. So there's a lot to look forward to. And as always, Christians are called to clarity and courage, especially on those. Yes. And discernment on those creation order issues especially. And we will have to exist as an anchor in this new coalition that includes lifelong Democrats like Tulsi Gabbard and rfk. Our job is to use the power of persuasion to push them over to our side.
- [66:39]
Dr. Albert Mohler
May I offer just one final thing there?
- [66:40]
Allie Stuckey
Please.
- [66:41]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Isn't it interesting that even in today's national newspapers and national news coverage, there's still a lingering question about the election as to why men and women responded differently in many ways. So you talk about creation order, boy, it comes out in a big way on the front page of the paper when they talk about the need, for instance, of Democrats to get some additional male votes in the future. So all of a sudden when they're counting voters, they are reminded of the differ difference between male and female. Interesting.
- [67:09]
Allie Stuckey
Yep. They definitely knew that during the campaign because abortion wasn't just a person's right, it was specifically a women's right. And so, yes, they remember the biological binary when it suits them. For sure.
- [67:22]
Dr. Albert Mohler
A pregnant person.
- [67:23]
Allie Stuckey
Yes. Yes, they dropped off. Kamala dropped all that language during her campaign because she knows.
- [67:28]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Right.
- [67:29]
Allie Stuckey
How unpopular it is. Yep. Well, we are even more excited not about just the coming of Donald Trump, but the advent of Jesus Christ for Christmas. And you've written a recent book about the Advent. Can you tell us about it?
- [67:44]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Yeah, it's entitled Recapturing the Glory of Christ at Christmas. And it's about recapturing the glory. Remember, you know, the biblical text tells us we beheld his glory. Glory is of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. That passage from John is so special to me. Yes, we beheld his glory. It's the glory of Christmas. The glory of Christmas is not friendship or generosity or gift giving. Those are all sweet things, a part of our celebration. The glory of Christmas is the glory of Christ. This is the glory of the Word through whom the worlds were made, who now comes into the world and you know, we as believers behold his glory. And I wrote this book trying to help Christians and Christian families in a 25 day process of devotions to recapture that glory. Again, the centrality of Christ at the very heart of our celebration.
- [68:35]
Allie Stuckey
Yes. And this is a devotional that they can do with their families or is it better done individually?
- [68:41]
Dr. Albert Mohler
It can be done either way. You know, the idea of doing it this way was the publisher pointing out that there were so many Christians and Christian families who wanted a structured way, kind of a bite size theological and biblical lesson for a day leading up to Christmas. And the more I thought about it, I thought, you know, that's really fruitful. And so I wrote the material in that way following that structure.
- [69:05]
Allie Stuckey
Absolutely. Well, I get questions all the time asking me for recommendations on an Advent devotional and what we're doing and we do a different one every year. So we're going to do this one this year and we're so excited and I know it's going to benefit our whole family. And it's out now.
- [69:20]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Yeah.
- [69:21]
Allie Stuckey
And wherever books are sold, it is.
- [69:23]
Dr. Albert Mohler
And I'm thankful to say it has sold very well.
- [69:27]
Allie Stuckey
Awesome.
- [69:27]
Dr. Albert Mohler
And it is in an additional printing which is now available. So it should be available to all the normal booksellers. And for that I'm very thankful.
- [69:35]
Allie Stuckey
Okay. Awesome. So everyone needs to go out and get recapturing the glory of Christmas. This is the devo that the Stuckey family will be doing this year. Dr. Mohler, thank you so much for taking the time to be on.
- [69:46]
Dr. Albert Mohler
Excuse me. But Alibeth, I'm so thankful for you and your work and your voice. Keep it going. And Merry Christmas.
- [69:53]
Allie Stuckey
Thank you. Likewise.