Ep 1161 | 'The Handmaid's Tale' Is Back & Ignores the Actual Forced Birth Industry | Guest: Josh Hammer

Summary

Podcast Summary: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey – Ep 1161 | 'The Handmaid's Tale' Is Back & Ignores the Actual Forced Birth Industry

Release Date: March 26, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 1161 of Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey, hosted by Allie Beth Stuckey from the Blaze Podcast Network, the discussion navigates the resurgence of the dystopian series The Handmaid’s Tale and its reflection—or lack thereof—of real-world issues surrounding forced birth and the surrogacy industry in the United States. Joined by guest Josh Hammer, the episode delves into the political landscape concerning Planned Parenthood, the pervasive surrogacy practices, and the defense of Israel as a cornerstone of Western civilization from a Christian, conservative perspective.

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1. Share the Arrows 2025 Announcement

Before diving into the main topics, Allie Beth announces the upcoming Share the Arrows 2025 event, emphasizing its focus on challenging, gospel-centered theological teachings. Notable speakers include:

• Elisa Childers: Renowned apologist discussing combating the new age and contemporary spiritual movements with biblical courage.
• Francesca Battistelli: Grammy Award-winning artist leading worship, praised for her impactful performances.
• Katie Faust: Advocate for children's rights from a scientific, moral, and biblical standpoint.
• Ginger Duggar Volo: Sharing personal testimonies and faith journeys away from legalism.

Allie underscores the event's aim to equip women with the strength and wisdom derived from God's word, fostering a community resilient against societal and cultural adversities.

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2. The Handmaid's Tale: A Contemporary Reflection?

Allie introduces the resurgence of The Handmaid’s Tale with its sixth and final season trailer, drawing parallels between the show's dystopian narrative and current political and cultural climates in America.

Key Points:

• Premise of the Show: The Handmaid’s Tale, based on Margaret Atwood's novel, portrays a society named Gilead where religious extremists enforce strict social hierarchies, leading to the enslavement of women as surrogates due to widespread infertility issues.

• Modern Misinterpretations: Allie challenges the common assertion that the show directly relates to abortion debates, clarifying that in the narrative, the forced birthing is a result of pronatalist policies rather than anti-abortion stances.

Notable Quotes:

• Allie Beth Stuckey [00:01]: "This is about Republican Christians, but there is a real Handmaid's Tale going on in America and around the world that you might not know about."

• Allie Beth Stuckey [11:19]: "The brain, the abortion brain worm is so burrowed into the minds of liberals that they have convinced themselves that the position that I hold, that you hold that it is wrong to kill a baby."

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3. The U.S. Surrogacy Industry: A Real-Life Handmaid's Tale

Josh Hammer (referred to as Brianna Heldt in the transcript) presents a critical analysis of the surrogacy industry in the United States, drawing stark comparisons to the fictional world of The Handmaid’s Tale.

Key Points:

• Commercial Surrogacy Practices: The U.S. operates as the "wild west" for reproductive technologies, with practices involving the creation and sale of embryos, often resulting in the commodification of women's bodies and children's lives.

• Ethical Concerns: Surrogacy arrangements frequently involve separating the egg donor from the gestational carrier, disrupting the natural maternal bond and posing significant emotional and physical risks to both surrogate and child.

• Legal and Moral Implications: The lack of regulation leads to scenarios where surrogates can lose custody of their children without support, as illustrated by the tragic story of Brittany, a surrogate whose child died after being taken away due to health complications ([12:04] Allie).

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Hammer [09:21]: "This is prostitution. This is the Handmaid's Tale."

• Allie Beth Stuckey [12:01]: "They are the biological mom. They are being raped."

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4. Defunding Planned Parenthood: Progress and Challenges

The conversation shifts to the Trump administration's decision to freeze family planning grants to organizations like Planned Parenthood, marking a significant step in the broader pro-life movement.

Key Points:

• Policy Changes: The administration's move is viewed as a positive start towards completely defunding Planned Parenthood, aiming to eliminate federal taxpayer dollars supporting abortion services.

• Planned Parenthood’s Response: Planned Parenthood counters by claiming that such funding cuts reduce healthcare access for women, citing declines in prenatal care, contraceptive services, and cancer screenings as a result ([36:24] Allie).

• Economic Critique: The profitability of Planned Parenthood is highlighted, with profits increasing by 270% over ten years despite reduced service offerings.

Notable Quotes:

• Brianna Heldt [32:06]: "Planned Parenthood has to be defunded of every single federal penny of taxpayer dollar, period, full stop, end of story."

• Allie Beth Stuckey [36:24]: "We are just paying for the killing of unborn children."

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5. Immigration and Visa Revocations for Pro-Hamas Activists

Allie and Josh discuss the controversy surrounding American universities deporting pro-Hamas agitators, examining the balance between First Amendment rights and national security.

Key Points:

• Legal Distinctions: Josh emphasizes the legal differences between citizens and non-citizens, noting that while U.S. citizens enjoy full constitutional protections, non-citizens can be deported without due process.

• Case Analysis: Instances like the conversation between JD Vance and the Secretary of Defense, inadvertently involving journalist Jeffrey Goldberg, highlight potential security lapses and the complexities of handling classified information.

• Moral and Legal Implications: Brianna critiques the left’s stance on free speech, arguing that advocating for individuals supporting terrorist regimes undermines national security and contravenes basic legal principles.

Notable Quotes:

• Brianna Heldt [53:00]: "The nation state happens to be a very good thing."

• Josh Hammer [51:04]: "If the Trump administration really, really, really wanted to make an enemy of Jeffrey Goldberg, you could in theory prosecute him on espionage acts grounds."

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6. Defense of Israel and Its Role in Western Civilization

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing Israel's pivotal role in safeguarding Western civilization against threats like Wokeism, Islamism, and global neoliberalism. Josh Hammer, who recently authored Israel and Civilization: The Fate of the Jewish Nation, the Destiny of the West, elaborates on this theme.

Key Points:

• Israel as the Frontline: Israel is portrayed as the first line of defense against global threats, conducting operations that indirectly benefit Western nations by targeting high-profile extremist leaders responsible for anti-American activities.

• Historical Context: Hammer connects Israel's actions to historical events, such as the elimination of key Hezbollah leaders responsible for past terrorist attacks, underscoring Israel's strategic importance ([58:28] Allie).

• Biblical Foundations of Western Civilization: Hammer argues that Western civilization is deeply rooted in biblical principles, emphasizing the shared heritage between Jews and Christians as essential to combating contemporary ideological threats.

Notable Quotes:

• Brianna Heldt [64:20]: "Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the Jewish Nation, the Destiny of the West."

• Josh Hammer [62:17]: "Jews and Christians have to stand shoulder to shoulder like never before because we face the exact same threats."

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Conclusion

Episode 1161 of Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey offers a comprehensive critique of contemporary societal and political issues through a conservative Christian lens. From dissecting the misconceptions surrounding The Handmaid’s Tale to exposing the ethical dilemmas within the American surrogacy industry and defending Israel's crucial role, the episode provides listeners with a robust analysis of factors shaping current cultural and political dynamics.

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Allie Beth Stuckey [00:01]: "This is about Republican Christians, but there is a real Handmaid's Tale going on in America and around the world that you might not know about."

• Josh Hammer [09:21]: "This is prostitution. This is the Handmaid's Tale."

• Brianna Heldt [32:06]: "Planned Parenthood has to be defunded of every single federal penny of taxpayer dollar, period, full stop, end of story."

• Allie Beth Stuckey [36:24]: "We are just paying for the killing of unborn children."

• Brianna Heldt [53:00]: "The nation state happens to be a very good thing."

• Josh Hammer [51:04]: "If the Trump administration really, really, really wanted to make an enemy of Jeffrey Goldberg, you could in theory prosecute him on espionage acts grounds."

• Josh Hammer [62:17]: "Jews and Christians have to stand shoulder to shoulder like never before because we face the exact same threats."

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content segments to focus solely on the episode's substantive discussions.

Transcript

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Trump has announced a move that will at least in part defund Planned Parenthood. This is a really good start. Also, the Handmaid's Tale has released their trailer for their sixth and final season of the dystopian series, and they are not even hiding it. This is about Republican Christians, but there is a real Handmaid's Tale going on in America and around the world that you might not know about. We will be detailing all of this today. Plus later we will be talking with my friend Josh Hammer to talk about the latest political news, all on today's episode of Relatable. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Okay, a couple things we got to get to before we talk to my friend Josh Hammer. I'm so excited to announce the speakers. Some of the speakers for share the arrows 2025. Thousands of you already have your tickets for our October 11th Christian women's event. It's going to be amazing. And you bought those tickets without even knowing who the speakers would be. All right, so it's going to be me, yours truly. We've also got Elisa Childers coming back. She is an amazing apologist. You guys love her. And last year she was one of the favorite talk. She was one of my favorite talks when I reached Share the Arrows last year. It was so incredibly powerful. And she is going to be bringing a message of how to combat the new age and the spirit of this age with courage and vigor in God's word. We will be led in worship by the Grammy Award winning artist, Francesca Battistelli. Once again, everyone knows that one of my favorite moments from last year was hearing acapella. She was acapella. But hearing the entire crowd sing this is my Father's World. And like your beautiful women voices, it was just incredible. This year is going to be even more amazing on that front. And then we've also got my girl, Katie Faust. And you guys know that Katie Faust does not hold back when it comes to children's rights. She talks about it from both a scientific and moral and kind of secular position. But she is a strong Christian and she will be talking about these things from a biblical position, position, things that you haven't heard yet. Even if you've been listening to this podcast for a long time. When it comes to children's rights, why we must defend children's rights when it comes to marriage, when it comes to reproductive technology. You probably won't get that at very many Christian women's conferences, which unfortunately tend to focus on A lot of self esteem and self focus. I believe that women can take challenging, gospel centered, deep theological teaching and that's what you're going to get at Share the arrows. We will also be having a health panel which I'm pumped about. Shauna Holman will be one of the speakers on that panel. And how to live a balanced and healthy and holistic life that honors God. That isn't just about performance, that isn't about legalism, but is actually about glorifying God with our body and our homes. So excited about that. That's a new one from last year. We didn't have anything like that and we'll have that this year. And then we have also got Ginger Duggar Volo. She's going to be amazing. You remember last year I had the opportunity to talk to interview Candace Cameron Bure and she was just so encouraging and funny and real and amazing. And this year we will have the testimony, the story, the vulnerability of Ginger Duggar Volo and just the authenticity of her faith and moving away from legalism is so edifying for me. It's going to be amazing to hear from her in a new way. And then we've got other speakers that I have not yet announced that we will be announcing soon. But for those of you who have been thinking about coming, those of you who are already planning on coming, I wanted you to know at least some of who you will be hearing from. Y'all, I am just so passionate about this because again, I believe that like women need God's word. We don't just need to hear how beautiful and perfect and awesome and enough we are. We actually just need to hear that, hey, your problem is not that you don't feel good about yourself. Your biggest problem is that you are a sinner in need of a savior. And you need Jesus not just for your salvation, but for your strength and for your sustenance and for your wisdom. Everything that is required of you in this life takes the Holy Spirit and takes understanding of God's word. And I just want women to walk out of this like they walked out of it last year, saying, I've got zero fear of man. I don't fear the future for my children. I don't fear the culture that seems to be an enemy of what I'm trying to teach my children. I don't fear the enemy at all because I have the power of God that has been in Christians since the very beginning of our faith in the gates of hell will not prevail against this church. And I Feel equipped. I feel strengthened. Linking arms with fellow believers, sharing the arrows of the enemy with them to take on whatever comes my way. Whether it's at a as a stay at home mom, whether it's as a student, whether it's as a grandmother, whether it's as whatever role, whatever spot that God has providentially placed you in. This will be an edifying, strengthening, emboldening day. It's just one day that's important to me because I know it can be hard logistically, especially with families and responsibilities to take, you know, days off work and all of that. It's on a Saturday, so hopefully you can get there. Go ahead, get your tickets atsharethe arrows.com if you've got any questions. A lot of the information is there. As we get closer, we'll be releasing new merchandise. You guys absolutely loved that last year. It'll be even better this year will be releasing FAQs and things like that. But grab your friends, grab your small group, grab your family. You. There are VIP packages, different ways that you can meet the speakers and meet me. And I'm so excited to be with you all there. I've got the best audience ever. If you want a taste of the best audience ever, if you want to make lifelong friends with salt of the earth Christian women who will encourage you and love you and be faithful to point you back to the truth, then you need to come to Share the Arrows. There are those of you out there who have friends that you met at Share the Arrows last year that are still just encouraging your soul, and I'm so thankful for that. So, again, share the arrows.com so pumped about it. It'll be here before we know it. All right, let's talk about something. Let's talk about the Handmaid's Tale, Bri's favorite show. I just learned that she's watched every episode of the Handmaid's Tale, y'all. And Bri will be at Share the Arrows, too. She was there last year. She came out on stage and y'all all clapped for her, and hopefully you will again. She deserves it. Okay. But she revealed to me that she has seen every episode of the Handmaid's Tale. Bri, is that true?

[Brianna Heldt]

Yes.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Because you love it.

[Josh Hammer]

I mean, no. At first I was watching it just because I thought it was entertaining. And then, you know, obviously it got a little bit more political. They're trying.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

When did it first come out?

[Josh Hammer]

2017, maybe.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Okay.

[Josh Hammer]

It's been a while. I. I don't know. I just thought, like, the World that they created was really interesting. If you can detach it from, like, what they're trying to say that, like.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

We'Re living in the political message.

[Josh Hammer]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just thought it was interesting.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. It's based on Margaret Atwood's novel the Handmaid's Tale. And tell us the premise of it. Basically, these women are being conscripted into being, like, surrogates for people.

[Josh Hammer]

So the general premise is the United States was taken over by religious extremists.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Oh.

[Josh Hammer]

And now it's been renamed Gilead.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Oh.

[Josh Hammer]

And so now the United States has, you know, there are, like, factions of people. So they're like the wives, the upper. Upper class, if you will, the, like, holier, who are like the husbands and wives. But there's an infertility issue. We later find out it's the men that are the problem that are infertile. But there's an infertility issue. They think it's the women.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

This was written in the 80s.

[Josh Hammer]

Yes.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

So Margaret Atwood did. I wonder if she actually thought, like, Ronald Reagan and that era of Christians, the Moral Majority, that they were taking over.

[Josh Hammer]

She has been influenced by lots of different religions in their extremism, notably Iran. So some of this is inspired by Islam, actually, which a lot of people don't know.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

And a lot of progressives that love to call Christians a handmaid's tale also love Islam. They think they do.

[Josh Hammer]

Yep. So, yeah, there are infertility problem. And so they find these handmaids who, when they took over, they discovered they're the women who had kids already or who could have kids. And they basically have enslaved them to basically breed children for the couples that can't have kids themselves. So, yeah, they're enslaved surrogates, essentially.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

And they have to wear the red ropes.

[Josh Hammer]

Yes. They have to wear the red robes. The wives wear green. So everyone knows, like, their place. And Canada, in this world is like the place where refugees are trying to go for, you know, to get it to escape Gilead. And so that's the general setup of the show.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Okay. At my talk the other day in Santa Barbara, one of the protesters was wearing her handmaid's robe because the belief is. And I've never seen an episode of the Handmaid's Tale, and it's been ruined for me at this point. Like you, I like dystopian things. I would probably find it interesting the same way that we found Severance interesting, because it's dystopian, but it's been completely ruined for me. Now, we know that the Handmaids protesters have protested Donald Trump's presidency. They protested Kavanaugh. And their argument, from what I understand, is that the religious right, and really all Republicans, because Donald Trump is not the religious right, but they might say that he's co opted Christianity to try to turn America into this Christian nationalist, religious extremist dystopia where women are forced to give birth. And where they're getting that from is that some of us think it's wrong to kill babies inside the womb and that it should actually be illegal to murder babies. So can you help me understand, does the Handmaid's Tale have anything to do with abortion? No, it doesn't.

[Josh Hammer]

No. Because, I mean, they're probably. Their line of thinking is because babies are so rare in that world and so cherished by people that they probably would never allow an abortion to happen because they want all of the babies that are being created. That's probably their line of thinking and why they equate those. But the reality is a big point of the story in the Handmaid's Tale is that these women who are forced to have these children want these babies. And they're devastated when the, when the actual, you know, the biological. Well, she's not the biological mom. They are.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

They are the biological.

[Josh Hammer]

They're the biological mom. They're forced to actually physically sleep with the husband.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Okay, so they're being raped.

[Josh Hammer]

Yes.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Okay.

[Brianna Heldt]

Yes.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

And they have. These are their own biological children.

[Josh Hammer]

Their own biological children.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

But in this and, and Sarah Abraham situation.

[Josh Hammer]

Yeah, yeah. And then those babies are taken from them and they're treated like they're the actual children of the wives. And multiple plot points throughout the, like five seasons that there have been. Have been, you know, that these Handmaids are devastated to lose their children. And the main character has a child with her enslaver and rescues that child because it's her child. And so I think it's silly that they have made that argument when it's really the opposite. These women don't, in the show wouldn't abort their children anyway even if they could. They want them.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Josh Hammer]

So, you know, obviously in the show it's devastating circumstances, but.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Josh Hammer]

Yeah.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Well, the, the brain, the abortion brain worm is so burrowed into the minds of liberals that they have convinced themselves that the position that I hold, that you hold that it is wrong to kill a baby. It's wrong to kill a baby whether they're in or outside of the womb. It's wrong to kill an innocent Human. That. That is the position of forced birth. They call that forced birther. Well, unless you were raped, which accounts for less than 1% of abortion cases in the United States, you were not forced to do the action that actually creates the baby. We are saying after that baby is created, no matter the circumstances surrounding its conception, it is its own human being with its own DNA, and it's wrong to kill that person. That is not the same at all. That, like, literally has no correlation with this dystopia of Margaret Atwood's where these women are being raped and then forced to carry a baby and give up that baby. There is a parallel in the United States that looks a lot like that. And we'll get into that in a second. First, let's play the latest trailer for the last and the sixth. Is it the sixth season? The sixth and final season of the Handmaid's Tale. Because they're not hiding it anymore. The point that they're trying to make. Here's thought 2. For years, we've been afraid of them. Now it's time for them to be afraid of us. We broke this country, and now we.

[Brianna Heldt]

Have to fix it together.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

This is Gilead.

[Brianna Heldt]

The only person you should count on is yourself.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

They will never see us coming. Oh, hell no. Bless it. Be the fruit. Let the revolution begin. I built this miserable hellscape. This is the beginning of the end.

[Josh Hammer]

What's happening?

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Rebellion. Rise up and fight for your freedom. Where is June Oswald For? You're just like the rest of them.

[Josh Hammer]

We use all of our friends, everyone.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

And anyone who hates Gilead to finally declare enough. Okay, this is so 2016 coded. Yeah, like the poster of Scientology girl. I forget her name.

[Josh Hammer]

Elizabeth Moss.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, yeah. She's. The revolution is her here. It's got like a little red eon there. The revolution is her ear. I mean, that is. That's so she's with her type stuff. 2016, Hillary Clinton coded. I mean, what year is this? Is it. Is it the year of our Lord 2025? I thought we were over cringe feminism.

[Josh Hammer]

Even the trailers. So all of the lines. I'm laughing at the lines. It's a revolution. They're so cheesy.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Also, like, are they trying to condone actually murdering people who are pro life and murdering Republicans? Because that's like the parallel they're trying to make here.

[Josh Hammer]

I mean, we both know probably they are.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, yeah. America wasn't Gilead until it was too late. Handmaid's Tale first season still feels uncomfortably time timely in 2025. And the first episode of the Handmaid's Tale, government suspended the constitution. They cut off all women from being able to access their bank accounts immediately. I remember watching it and thinking, this is ridiculous. It could never happen here. Now I'm not so sure. Honestly, I think the government should take over my bank account. I'm spending like I. It's just on the Instagram ads. They're killing me. Ah, they know me too well. They. I've accepted that Instagram can read my mind and I'm just like happy about it now because they give me these ads for things that I really want and then I end up buying them and then I don't like them, I send them back. But honestly, the government should probably take over my bank account and just stop me, put an end to that. But that is such a ridiculous statement. That is such a ridiculous. These people, they don't live in reality. They truly don't like. And that is provably true that progressives like. When it comes, when you try to get them to describe something that's going on, especially like numerically or statistically, they can't do it. Whether it's police interactions with like minorities, what that actually looks like, or what the income gaps are between men and women. They get it wrong every time because they do not. Many of them simply don't traffic in facts. They don't live in reality. They listen to this propaganda. Okay, let me pause and tell you about our sponsor and then I will paint for you a picture of a real Handmaid's Tale that is going on in America that has nothing to do with pregnancy centers, nothing to do with Donald Trump, nothing to do with pro lifers who take the radical position that it should be wrong to kill any innocent person, no matter what their size, age or location is. Okay, so let me paint that picture for you and all of you handmade stands out there. I await your justified outrage once I explain this to you. But let me pause, tell you about our sponsor. It is Good Ranchers. You guys know I absolutely love Good ranchers. It is time to spring into action to try to save the backbone of America and that is farming and ranching. These are salt of the earth people who have provided America with its nourishment for centuries now. And that industry is dwindling because of unfair regulations, because of cheaper imported meat from abroad. Good Ranchers is trying to stand in the gap and to make it easier for consumers to purchase affordable 100% American meat. And that's why they exist. That's why I eat good ranchers. It comes to my front door every month on dry ice. I have my own custom box. It's got non marinated, non marinated chicken breasts in there. It's got the wagyu ground beef, all the stuff that we eat on a daily basis in our home. If you've got picky eaters, for example, I've got one child right now who really only wants like a plain chicken breast. I'm like, okay, that's not the worst thing ever. We have that multiple nights a week. It's really good. I know that they're getting their protein in and it's supporting this American industry right now. When you use my code ALI, you can get $40 off your order. That's more than it typically is. It's usually $25. So take advantage of this. Good ranchers.com use code ALI. Check out good ranchers.com ally code alley. Okay. Something that is really happening in the United States right now is a widespread billion dollar surrogacy industry that thrives in the United States, which is the wild west of reproductive technology. When it comes to the creation and the cryopreservation of embryos, the farming of eggs, the procurement of sperm to make these little people, sometimes dozens of little people for two people or one individual who simply wants to create children. These embryos are graded, they are discarded, they are frozen indefinitely, they are thawed, they are given to people and never followed up on. That's what happens in the United States through ivf, through sperm and egg selling. And one of the most disturbing aspects of the reproductive industry in the United States is surrogacy. Surrogacy, typically it's a little bit different than what happens in Gilead. In the United States. Commercial surrogacy requires an egg seller that is separate from the gestator. So you've got the egg seller, which is the biological mother. In some cases you've also got a sperm seller. In some cases you've just got the sperm seller and you don't have the egg seller as well. But when we're talking about a surrogate, it is typically the creation of a child using the DNA of two individuals which are complete strangers, creating these embryos and then transferring these embryos into a surrogate who is not the biological mother, is not related child at all. And this carrier, this surrogate, carries the child's until birth. Very often these are premature births because they are high risk pregnancies. They were not naturally conceived. This baby doesn't share DNA with the Carrier. That's not how it's supposed to be. It can be very dangerous for both baby and mother. And the baby is born and then taken away from the mother and then given to the intended parents. Very often nowadays the intended parents are two men. Because two men can't make a baby on their own. They can't carry a baby. And so they need to purchase the services and the DNA of two other women to carry that baby and to prevent bonding with the surrogate. Because the bond there, even if the surrogate is not the biological mother, the bond there is so strong that it has to be severed at birth or else the gestator might get this crazy idea that she has some claim over this child. Because everything in her body, all of her hormones, her milk is coming and everything in her brain is telling her, protect this child. This is your child. Hold this child, cherish this child. Everything hormonally, hormonally, physiologically in the baby is saying, where's my mom? Where's the smell and the touch and the feel and the heartbeat of the woman who has been carrying me for the nine months, the past nine months? These are. This is the only home that I've ever known. We know that it is physically, health wise, necessary for that baby and that mom to be bonded. And when I say mom, when I'm talking about surrogacy, I'm talking about the gestator. But when we're talking about, in typical situations, that mom and that baby are supposed to have that bond seconds after birth, we are told that over and over again during pregnancy, the skin to skin is so important. Why? Because it regulates the baby's body temperature. It regulates the baby's breathing and the baby's heartbeat. They've just gone through something really big, really dramatic, really traumatic, and they need that bond. But in surrogacy situations, that skin to skin opportunity is taken away. That bonding experience necessary for the health of the child is taken away to prevent that bond. And the child is given to the intended parents. Sometimes a mom and a dad, a lot of times two men and sometimes an individual men. That individual man. That is what is happening on a daily basis in the United States because we have virtually no regulations around it. Let me show you a video of what that actually looks like. This is a news story that was reposted by journalist Genevieve Glock on ax out 3. As a divorced single mom, she needs the money to buy a home for herself and her two children. Jana and the baby are separated immediately. Surrogates aren't allowed to touch the child they've just given birth to. I hope that that breaks your heart when you hear that baby's cry. Or you might be thinking, while every baby cries, of course when they're born, they're supposed to cry. It's a good thing. But that is also longing for warmth. That is longing for the bond of his mother. And you'll see right there that the baby is taken away. The baby is not given to the mother. And obviously that's not happening in America. I just want to paint you a picture though, of what is happening in America on a daily basis. And I will never forget the conversation that I had with a mom on this show. We'll link the episode. Her name is Brittany. She was diagnosed with cancer while she was carrying a baby for two men. The couple was livid when she was diagnosed. The doctors assured them, all of them, that she could deliver early, that the little boy would be fine. He would spend some time in the nicu, but he would be fine. But the men said no. They didn't want a deal with the possible adverse health outcomes of a premature baby. Brittany begged the men, please let me adopt him. I will take care of him. They refused. They cut all contact with her. They just wanted to try again with a new, healthier surrogate. This happens more times than you would like to know. She delivered early. The baby boy died. There was no one there to claim him or care for his remains. He was held by Brittany's family member as he died and he was tossed like trash. And this is not just an extreme example. This highlights the inherent problem of surrogacy. The surrogate and baby create this bond. The baby isn't biologically hers. She has no claim over him legally, no claim. They signed a contract sane as much. And then the parents don't have the same bond with the baby that they would if the baby was actually being gestated by the mother. That doesn't mean that all intended parents in these surrogacy situations are going to make this kind of awful decision. That that's just the reality there. We are all affected by the way, by our gestation and by the earliest moments of our life. Earth side. We were created like this. What happens to people at birth and before birth actually matters. And then there's this also very disturbing study. A 2023 study from the Society for Assisted Reproductive Technology, this clinic outcome reporting system, so it's a long, it's a long acronym there found that between 2014 and 2020, 32% of surrogacy pregnancies by American women were for buyers outside of the U.S. 42% of those buyers were men of Asian descent, mostly from China. Single men, Asian descent from China. Okay. The U.S. as I've said, is the wild west of reproductive technology. People from all over the world buy our sperm, buy our eggs, rent the wombs, buy the babies, take them home for who knows what. We already know there is an egg farm that's run by China where these women are stimulated with a hormone there so that their eggs that they basically go through hyper ovulation. Their eggs are ready to be harvested, they go through this very painful process so those eggs can then be sold on the market. I'm sure there's something like that for sperm as well. But it seems to be women who are extremely vulnerable in these situations. We already know there's an organ harvesting black market that exists. We know that child sex trafficking exists and surrogacy plays a part in all of that. Yet most people won't say anything about this because they are scared of being called homophobic because they know it is very often men using these services in order to procure a child, to buy a child, rent a womb and buy DNA to create this child. So they don't want to say anything because what will people do who really want to be parents? Look, adult wants don't get to trump the well being of children. This is the Handmaid's Tale. You've got women very often who are desperate for money. Especially when you're talking about women in Ukraine and in other poor countries who become surrogates. They are desperate for money. They are being bought, they are being rented by elite men all over the world, elite couples all over the world who want to use their bodies to create babies. This is essentially prostitution. This is the Handmaid's Tale. And if you say, well, these women are consenting to it, saying yes, because you are in a desperate situation does not amount to consent. And consent is not the only factor in determining if something is right or wrong. This is the objectification of women, the commodification of children. This is a real life Handmaid's tale. And if you are not outraged about this, then take off your stupid red rope, okay? Don't be an idiot. Wake up to reality. Your ideology is stupid. It is evil. It is allowing something like this. Children have a right to life and they have a right to a mother and father. End of story. That is the only moral, ethical and consistent position. Okay? Margaret Atwood. All right. We've Got a lot more to talk about today. We're switching gears. We're talking to my friend Josh Hammer about some other very important news stories unrelated to the Handmaid's Tale, but always including the stupidity of left wing ideology and how it really deludes people's not only their brain but also their hearts and really kind of atrophies the soul with its lies. But let me tell you about our next sponsor before we get into that, and that is Jace Medical. You want to make sure that you are prepared for an emergency, whether it is some kind of terrible weather event or a supply chain issue. You want to make sure that you've got the medicine on hand that you need, which is why you need to go to jace.com get their Jace case. Their Jace case is an emergency supply kit of the different medications that you might need. They've got the most common antibiotics for the most common infections that could literally be life saving. You can also find add ons so ivermectin, Tamiflu in EpiPen, all of those can be a game changer in emergency events. So get a Jace case. Have it on hand. Better safe than sorry. You can also get a Jace Daily case. That is a year long supply of the prescriptions that you and your family rely on. Go to jace.com use code ALI. You can enter a giveaway. They're giving away a travel Jace case right now and if you use code ali at checkout you'll get a discount on your order. That's jace.comcodeali. josh, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. We've got so much to get into. So pumped to talk about your book. But I want to talk about this headline first from the Wall Street Journal. Trump administration plans to freeze family planning grants. So the WSJ reported that the Trump administration is planning to freeze the family planning grants to organizations like Planned Parenthood. AS investigates things like DEI initiatives which has the potential to remove $20 million in funding from Planned Parenthood. Seems to me like that is a good start. It's not the finish line, but it's a good start. What are your thoughts?

[Brianna Heldt]

It's a very good start. I, I would say it's a very, very good start. I mean you can go back alley and look back in the very first week or two of the administration, there were various other pro life executive orders that came out as well. When it comes to restoring the Mexico City policy which puts, puts very strong restrictions on taxpayer subsidization of abortion in foreign countries here this is another very, very notable development as well there. Ultimately, Planned Parenthood has to be defunded of every single federal penny of taxpayer dollar, period, Full stop, end of story. And I think that this is a very meaningful step on the way to that. It's not the finish line, as you said there, but all the indications are that this administration is heading in the right direction. Now, Ali, in my own capacity, I was, I wasn't skeptical, but I was asking questions at least about RFK@HHS. I happen to actually largely agree with RFK and some of his vaccine stances and things like that. That was never my objection there. Rather I was concerned because he's a lifelong abortion advocate. I mean, he is a Kennedy after all, there. And I did have some questions as to whether or not we would get consistent pro life policy from executive agencies such as HHS thus far. Ali, in the two plus months that we've seen of the this second Trump administration, I've seen effectively virtually no reason to be particularly concerned. As a staunch pro lifer myself, I see a lot of reasons to be deeply encouraged and frankly, I only hope that this momentum keeps up. One other notable pro life development, by the way, this story did not get a whole lot of headlines, but there was actually a notable Supreme Court case last year out of the state of Idaho. What happened in Idaho was the state there passed a very strong pro life measure and you had some pro abortion folks in Idaho that actually took this case all the way to the Supreme Court to basically challenge the Idaho law and say that it was preempted, as lawyers would say, by this federal emergency abortion statute that basically said that the Idaho law had to be subject to the federal medical abortion thing. Long story short, the Biden administration was basically trying to make abortions happen again in the state of Idaho. This went really under the radar. Not a whole lot of people covered it or even noticed it. But the, the Trump DOJ actually withdrew the federal government's stance from that particular case. They basically dropped the suit. So the Idaho pro life law stands in place as well there. There's been a lot of kind of smaller developments like that. So as I said, from a, from a pro life perspective, this is a very important issue, obviously for, for both me and you and obviously for the audience as well. Everything seems to be going pretty well for now. I'm quite happy.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yes. And you know, of course Planned Parenthood reacted to this news by saying, you're taking healthcare away from women. Live Action has done a lot of reporting on the so called that Planned Parenthood actually does. So over the past 10 years, according to Live Actions Reporting, prenatal care has decreased by 68%. Contraceptive services decreased nearly 40%. Cancer screenings prevention services plummeted by nearly 59%. PAPs. PAP. PAP tests decreased by 60%. Adoption referrals decreased by nearly 22%. Just anecdotally, if you talk to women IEP, I do a lot of work with pregnancy care centers. And a lot of women who come into those pregnancy centers, they first went to Planned Parenthood or maybe they previously had an abortion at Planned Parenthood. And the reason that they're at the pregnancy center is because they were under the impression that they could go to the Planned Parenthood and get information about an actual choice. What if they wanted to parent? What if they wanted to put their child up from for adoption? Planned Parenthood redirects those people right back out the door and says, if you don't have the $800 for an abortion, you really have no business being here. That's how the vast majority, if not all, Planned Parenthoods function. And yet, over the past 10 years, again, according to Live Action, profit at this abortion corporation has gone from 58.2 million 10 years ago to $178.6 million a year. So that's an increase of 270% of the annual profit that that corporation is making, in addition to our hundreds of millions of dollars of, of tax money that they are also receiving. So no health care. We are just paying for the killing of unborn children. Even if they say our dollars can't go toward that, we know that they are.

[Brianna Heldt]

Yeah. I guess if there's one thing that I would like to see a little bit more of, we, we've seen so much from, from Elon Musk and Doge, his Department of Government Efficiency, when it comes to rooting out a lot of stuff that taxpayers should not be subsidizing, whether it's it's DEI for children in Myanmar or gender ideology in the Congo. I mean, I'm making up examples here, but that's basically what they discover when it comes to things like usaid. I would like to see a little bit more when it comes to the DOGE focus on saving taxpayers when it comes to the abortion issue there, because there are historical ways that Democrats in particular, when they control the federal budget, when they control appropriations there, they try to slip all sorts of backdoor mechanisms for the U.S. taxpayer to subsidize abortion there. And Planned Parenthood happens to be the most High profile example. There's any number of smaller examples as well. So I would like to see a slightly more concerted effort when it comes to Elon Musk in Doge. I don't really know how Elon Musk personally feels about this, but he certainly seems to be small government enough inclined whereby he should be, I think incentivized and encouraged and frankly just interested in trying to save taxpayer dollars of having to subsidize these abortion companies, which as you note are already tragically highly profitable and highly lucrative for the most part in the first place there. But ultimately, Ali, I think the most important argument there is not necessarily saving taxpayers dollars. The most important argument is that this is wrong. One of my big things going back to really the beginning of my days doing political commentary is that these procedural arguments are interesting, but it's always more interesting to cut to the moral heart of the issue, to actually make a straightforward moral argument as to the propriety or the impropriety of the underlying action of the underlying conduct. Conduct. And it's incumbent upon pro lifers to never stop arguing, to never stop reminding, seeking to persuade, to gauge in a very slow drudging, methodical, but nonetheless highly difficult or important, I should say work of changing hearts and minds there. And what that means is just taking the pro life argument head on and explaining to people whether or not they're already on board or they're not on board, that this is wrong not just as a fiscal matter when it comes to the tactics, taxpayer dollars and the federal fisc, but it's also wrong just as a moral matter here because we should not be involved in killing innocent unborn babies, basically, period, full stop, end of story.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Absolutely. And that's not really something that we've heard Elon Musk talk about that much, but he has talked about what he understands is the inherent evil and so called gender affirming care giving someone the opposite hormones, especially when it comes to minors. And Planned Parenthood has actually become the industry leader in providing these hormones, hormones to these young people. Every D transitioner that I've talked to on this couch, they originally got their cross sex hormones from Planned Parenthood. And you don't really, you don't need much of a sign off. I think you need one psychologist that is typically recommended by the gender clinic that originally convinced that child that they were born in the wrong body. They sign off on it. Sometimes there's an endocrinologist involved. Again, they're handpicked by these gender clinics. They refer them to Planned Parenthood Planned Parenthood says, here's your testosterone. So there are lots of reasons, moral reasons, but also fiscal reasons, to cut ties with Planned Parenthood. When it comes to taxpayer dollars, it seems like that shouldn't even be a partisan issue.

[Brianna Heldt]

It shouldn't be. I mean, it's also just one of straight up, just crony capitalism. Right? I mean, that's a term that you probably haven't heard in a whole lot of time there. But I mean, why are there other large federal corporations, why are there large companies that are, that are getting taxpayer dollars in general there? I mean, there's more reasons than I could possibly count that Planned Parenthood should not get a single penny of federal taxpayer dollar. But overall, Ali, I do think it's important to underscore and emphasize what we were talking about a few minutes ago, which is I think over the course of the 2024 campaign, there were some pro lifers, people that you and I would consider close allies, friends, many of whom were skeptical, were kind of pessimistic, depressed, black pilled, you might say, about the prospects of a, of a Trump Vance presidency when it comes to this issue. To the there. And I tried to mollify behind the scenes a lot of those friends of mine basically saying, look, this is a political campaign. People say a lot of stuff in the context of a political campaign to get elected there. But the most important thing that you can do for a situation like this is you look back to what President Trump did when he was in office the first time around. And not only did he nominate the justices who helped overturn Roe versus Wade, that's the most important thing, but there were all sorts of executive orders as well that were strongly pro life executive orders. And again, I'm just deeply hardened by what we've seen thus far. Now in my heart of hearts, would I, would I still like to see Congress legislate a national abortion ban tomorrow? Yes, of course I would. There. I've called for that any number of times. I've argued that proposition at top 10 law schools in America. But you know, it's just not going to happen right now due to the present political realities there. So a lot of it is going to come from the executive branch. And thankfully we seem to have a very supportive executive branch at this moment.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

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[Brianna Heldt]

So, as usual, Ali, the truth is somewhere in the middle, right? I mean, when you have kind of, you know, some. Someone trying to just totally dismiss a story and then someone trying to blow it out of proportion, or the truth is typically somewhere in the very murky gray area in the middle there. So there are two. There are at least two aspects to really three aspects to the story. One is the fact that they were conversing on Signal. Two is the fact that Jeffrey Goldberg of all people of the Atlantic somehow managed to get in this chat. Third is the underlying substance of what was actually being discussed and how it played out here in this chat. So I guess I'll take all three of those in order. The fact that it's on signal in the first place. A lot of people are freaking out about this that really does not particularly bother me. That is the least of my concerns right now, in theory. Should they have maybe some other government, Pentagon, CIA approved messaging device? Maybe. But I mean, it's totally implausible and unrealistic in today's day and age and a very kinetic, fast charging foreign affairs circumstance there. It's totally implausible to expect that all these very important people, people like Pete Hexseth, Marco Rubio, JD Vance, could all congregate jointly in a skiff and then review classified. That's just not how it works. And frankly, it was actually the Biden administration that took pains to actually approve the use of SIGNAL for these sorts of communications. So that's really not my concern. The fact that it was actually happening on signal, the fact that Jeffrey Goldberg, by contrast, found his way into this chat is a very big deal and it is extraordinarily problematic there, among other reasons, because Jeffrey Goldberg is a very bad faith actor. I mean, this is someone who is a left wing activist of a so called journalist. I have personally sparred with him. He's actually blocked me on social media for over a decade there. He is not someone who has, has, who has the best interest. The Trump administration at heart, I think would be a dramatic understatement. So how in the world did he end up on this? Well, you know, the working theory is that his initials JG were there and that they meant to put in the US Trade Representative, Jameson Greer. I mean, I mean, that's just gross incompetence. I mean, someone clearly massively, massively dropped the ball. Unclear why any of these staffers, frankly even had Jeffrey Goldberg in their SIGNAL contacts in the first place. Place no one should be talking to this guy again, he's a bad faith actor trying to undermine this administration there. But even conceding that, for the sake of argument, I mean, for God's sake, I mean double, triple check a conversation of this nature. So, so there should be a fall guy. I don't think it should be Mike Waltz, but maybe it's Mike Waltz's staffer, whoever was actually responsible for Jeffrey Goldberg getting access to this there. That that person, in my opinion, should be disciplined, fired. And let's really make sure that from an OPSEC perspective, that this never, never, ever, ever happens again. Query, by the way, whether Jeffrey Goldberg actually acted ethically there. In my opinion, he did not. He should have politely said, guys, I'm not here, like I'm the wrong place. And then it's like basically Irish exit stage right. I mean, get the heck out of the chat there. I mean, so he did not act properly as well here. You know, the final thing is most important part, right, which is that the actual, the underlying substance, I mean, like what are they actually discussing there? And you basically see an interesting discussion about what to do when it comes to the issue of the Houthis there. And it's not a big surprise that there are people within the Trump administration who have differing opinions when it comes to the Middle east, when it comes to foreign policy in general there. Look, I was not persuaded by Vice President Vance's argument that this is just simply Europe's problem there. The United States definitely has an interest. I mean, we can debate how strong that interest is. We definitely have an interest in securing free passageway of the Red Sea when the world's most important waterways, which these Muslim pirates, the Houthis have basically held hostage for years and years now. So it was kind of the confirmation that a lot of these guys say privately, whether it's the Vice President Hegseth Waltz, a lot of them say privately what they say publicly. So not a whole lot of shock there. But we shouldn't be talking about this. I mean, not just me and you, but the world should not be talking about a very private, high level conversation from the people involved there. So the fact we're even having this conversation I do find to be deeply problematic.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, it was interesting. It was interesting for me to just kind of see how these decisions are made and also the verbiage they use with each other. I mean, it did give us some insight, I guess, into how these conversations go, even if we weren't supposed to have that insight. Your point about Goldberg? He should have exited and said, I don't think that I'm the right person for this group chat. I was wondering the same thing. It seems like no one is saying that, or maybe I just haven't seen it. I mean, I'm glad he kept the confidential information to himself until after this attack happened. Right. So that was good. But it seems like the right thing to do, the honest thing to do would have been for him to bow out. But he knew that he could make it a story. He knew that he could make it a story about their incompetence. And that's really the whole point. So it's interesting how people are applauding him, I don't know, for his courage, for being at the right place, place at the right time, according to, you know, his journalistic goals. But yeah, it's strange. It seems like everyone should Be like, why didn't you get out of there earlier?

[Brianna Heldt]

So people seem to be applauding Jeffrey Goldberg for not leaking the news of the imminent strikes before they happened. That that's not praiseworthy behavior. You're basically praising him for not committing treason. I mean, that literally would be a, a borderline that which is the argue to leak the news of a strike beforehand is literally an act of treason. That's a very plausible legal argument. So it's not praiseworthy to abstain from committing treason. That just makes you a very, very low level, extraordinarily low bar, semi decent human being. Right? So true. He's not deserving of praise. I mean, he did not, he did not act ethically here. And again, he did not act ethically because this is a man who carries immense weight water for the Democratic Party. He carries immense water for liberal causes there. You know, the reason that Jeffrey Goldberg blocked me personally on social media 10 years ago is because I called him Barack Obama's court Jew. Because he was basically the Jewish journalist who was being tasked by Barack Obama with trying to sell the catastrophic Iran nuclear deal to a very skeptical public there. He is literally the guy who goes in there to carry water and do the dirty work for the Democratic Party. He has only the worst interest of the Trump administration at heart there. So I'm not surprised that he acted the way he did. And look, I mean, I'm a lawyer ally. I didn't go to journalism school, whatever there. I have to imagine, though, that whatever they're teaching in journalism school these days, to the extent that it's not just entirely overrun by left wing ideology, which it probably is, if there is such thing these days in the 21st century as journalistic ethics. I have to think that Jeffrey Goldberg wildly, wildly violated. Final point I will make on this. There is a relevant statute from a legal perspective on the books called the Espionage act, which deals with how one handles classified information. We have seen the Espionage act invoked in the recent past when it comes to Donald Trump and Mar a Lago and the FBI raid there and so forth. Now there is actually not a journalistic exception for the Espionage act there. So if the Trump administration really, really, really wanted to make an enemy of Jeffrey Goldberg, I'm not suggesting they do because it might not be a winning case based on current SCOTUS precedent. What not there. But you could in theory prosecute him on espionage acts grounds if you really, really want to send a strong case case. I think it's a weak case because, you know, he didn't snoop around. He was literally invited to this chat there. It literally fell into his lap. So it's maybe not a strong legal case, but such an option exists if they were interested in doing so.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Last sponsor for the day is My Patriot Supply. Smart Americans trust my Patriot Supply for their emergency food supply. Again. Again, you just don't know what kind of situation you're going to be in. Hopefully you'll never need an emergency supply kit of food. But if you are in that situation, you will be so glad that you made this investment for your family. You want to get 14 week emergency food supply kit for every member of your family. These are 2000 calorie a day meals that I hear taste really good. Again, it's just so much better to be safe than sorry. If you ever get into any kind of situation, it could be political upheaval, it could be the electric grid, it could be weather related, who knows? You want to make sure that your family has the sustenance that they need to survive. So go to preparewithally.com you will get a big discount when you use my link. Go to preparewith ally.com okay, I'm so interested to get your take as, as a lawyer, as someone who cares about the First Amendment, the Constitution, your take on the debate about these pro Hamas agitators at American universities having their visas revoked, being deported. Obviously the left is suddenly, they suddenly care about the First Amendment, they suddenly care about the constitutional rights of individuals. And they are saying these people are peaceful protesters. They shouldn't get their visas revoked simply because the administration doesn't like their position on Palestine v. Israel. And then of course you've got Stephen Miller and others, Marco Rubio, saying no, a visa is a privilege, it's not a right. And if you are supporting a terrorist regime, then you should not be here. I think I know where you land on this, but tell me how you've kind of worked through this yourself.

[Brianna Heldt]

Yeah. So first of all, before getting into the immigration context of it, it really is just deeply ironic that the left has finally found this one particular form of speech or purported speech as the case sometimes is that they are absolutely ACLU style free speech absolutists about it's been a long time coming. I mean they are the ones who have notoriously tried to shut down and censor the opposition for years and years and years. And now ever since October 7th, on American University campuses, you can call for genocide, you can call for the most abhorrent, disgusting stuff. Stuff. But all of a sudden you have a free speech, absolutist right to say it. I actually did a debate at Harvard last April on this very topic there. And frankly, just the continuing hypocrisy of the left just really never ceases to blow my mind. But on the actual legal point, you're dealing with Mahmoud Khalil, with this kidney doctor at Brown University, this researcher, whatever, with the Hamas spouse at Georgetown University, basically Doha on the Potomac. I mean, these various other kind of Hamas connected sycophants who are not US citizens. I frankly can't believe how people are just missing the forest for the trees on this. This is so straightforward. As a matter of law, if you are a United States citizen, you have full fledged constitutional protections, you have full fledged Bill of Rights and so forth there. It simply is not necessarily the exact same way for non citizens if you are an alien here, legal or illegal there. So to take one very clear example example, let's talk about the Second Amendment. If I'm a U.S. citizen, which praise be to God I am, I can walk into Walmart tomorrow and buy whatever gun and ammunition I want to as long as I pass an ATF federal background check. That's not the case. If you are an alien here, whether you're legal or illegal, there are serious restrictions on how legal aliens, whether you're here on a student visa or whether you're an LPR and a green card, can just walk into Walmart and buy a firearm. So the Bill of Rights, the Constitution in general, does not actually operate the exact, exact same way. It really is quite a bit more nuanced. More fundamentally though, what you're saying about Stephen Miller and Marco Rubio there, there is a long, long, unmitigated continuous stream of cases from the Supreme Court on down for really the entire history of the American republic that basically says that if you are an alien here, you can be removed anytime for any reason, period. Full stop, end of story. I'll give you one, one kind of notable powerful statement on this. So Justice Robert Jackson, one of the great SCOTUS justices of the 20th century, he was the prolific lead dissenter in the 1944 case called Korematsu, that was the Japanese internment case. It's considered to be one of the worst cases in Supreme Court history. And he dissented on due process grounds. So because of that, he's considered to be a champion of due process. That's how the law school case books teach Justice Jackson. He ends up being the chief prosecutor of the Nazi war criminals in the Nuremberg trials. Very, very esteemed guy when it comes to due process process. He actually wrote in a 1953 case called Shaughnessy that due process does not entail the rights of any alien around the world to come here, to immigrate here. And then once you are here as an alien, you have no due process right to stay here against the national will. That's it. The whole point is that we are sovereign and it is inherent in the entire notion of national sovereignty. That when this quid pro quo of how we allowed you in, when we the people, the sovereign, are done with you, get out of here. And this goes back all the way again to the origins of the Republic. Now Congress can put in whatever extra constitutional protections for due process. That's how you got these immigration court removal proceedings there in Article 2. They're not even Article 3 proceedings or Article 2 proceedings there that can all get in there. But that's just because Congress is choosing to act of its own volition as a constitutional threshold, as a basic, basic kind of low barrier, low level threshold there. You have no due process right to remain here. So these guys have to get out. Trump campaigned on it there, he's doing a good job of it, frankly. I wanna see a lot more of it to come there. But really what's happening here, and I'll stop after this, but I think what they're actually trying to do, Ali, they're really trying to collapse any distinction between citizen and non citizen. That's actually what's going on here. They're really trying to basically bamboozle you into thinking that a Hamas sycophant, a total piece of garbage like a mob, Mahmoud Khalil, that he is, that he has the same rights as you and me, because we're all the same there. Well, actually, no, we're really not the same. I mean, citizen versus non citizen is an important distinction there. But that's the ultimate goal of the far left, isn't it? Is to ultimately kind of George sort of's Open Society Foundation, World Economic Forum there, this literally is the goal of the, of the globalists, is to actually eradicate the nation state. And part of that is to eradicate any distinction between citizen and non citizen. So I think that is kind of the intellectual starting place that some of these arguments are coming from there. But it's legally incoherent and it's morally wrong, frankly, because the nation state happens to be a very good thing.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And this ties into your book and the thrust of your argument in your book, which is Israel and Civilization, the fate of the Jewish nation, the destiny of the west is actually Israel. This tiny nation in the Middle east is at the tip of the spear when it comes to protecting Western civilization in a variety of ways, but specifically against radical Islamification of the West. So can you make the case for us that really Israel and the defense of Israel is on, is on the front lines, it is high order of priority for everyone who loves Western civilization to defend Israel make that argument for us?

[Brianna Heldt]

Sure. So, yes. So the book is called Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the Jewish Nation, the Destiny of the West. I think one key point point is that the word Israel in the title has a double meaning, right? It's referring, yes, to the capital s State of Israel, but also to the nation of Israel, the people of Israel, I. E. The Jewish peoples. Maybe we'll, maybe we'll table that and then come back to it, perhaps there. But the state of Israel is absolutely Western civilization's front line when it comes to the fight against really all three of the global forces that I identify as being a threat to Western civilization there and those three forces, forces that I identify in the book as being a hegemonic threat threatening to engulf all of us. Jews and Christians alike here in the west are in no particular order Wokeism, Islamism and global neoliberalism. And it really is the Jewish people and the state of Israel that oftentimes are the canary in the coal mine on frankly, all three of these issues, actually. So when it comes to wokeism, we've certainly seen since October 7th how much these woke DEI crazies on campuses hate the Jews there. But you know what they also hate? They also just hate, hate Christians and white people and Mormons nations and various other groups as well there. So, you know, it always starts with the Jews there, but as history teaches us, it of course never ends with the Jews. You come for the Saturday people first, then the Sunday people next. We've seen this time and time again all throughout human history. But on the Islamism issue there, yeah, Israel is transparently and obviously the West's front man on the spot there. The Trump administration certainly understands this. That's why it was the most pro Israel administration in American history the first time. And they basically picked, picked up right where they left off in the second administration. It was this understanding, actually that led to the dynamic Abraham Accords peace deals of 2020, where Israel made peace with the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco there. You know, Ali, I'll give just one very concrete example as to How Israel literally is the west and frankly America's man on the spot, so to speak, when it comes to the radical Islamic issue. And I hear from a lot of people when I speak on this topic on university campuses, a lot of them say, you know, what does the U.S. benefits from U.S. israel relations? Right. This is a very common question that I get with some increasing frequency these days there. Well, let me explain to you in very concrete terms partially at least one part of what America benefits from this particular relationship. So last summer, less than a year after October 7, there was kind of a few months stretch there where Israel went on this kind of grand revenge killing spree. It kind of reminded me of Michael Corleone in the infamous baptism scene in the Godfather. They decided to be basically systematically just started knocking off a lot of their enemies. And that culminated, but with the assassination of Yahya Sinwar in Gaza and Hassan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah in Beirut, Lebanon. But before they got Nasrallah, Israel and the IDF knocked off two other very high ranking Hezbollah jihadists as well. These two men's names were Fouad Shakur and Ibrahim Akhil. And who are Fouad Shakur and Ibrahim Akhil? I'd be very impressed if anyone out there watching this knows who they are. So Fouad Shakur was the Mastermind of the 1983 Beirut, Lebanon Barracks that slaughtered over two hundred and forty United States Marines. Ibrahim Akhil was the Hezbollah Jihadi who was the head of the bombing at the US Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon that exact same year that slaughtered between 60 and 70Americans. Those two men for over four decades now have had United States State Department bounties on their head of 5 and $7 million respectively. Nothing happened, literally nothing happened for four decades until the IDF just took them out last year. Year. So again, I hear from a lot of people, you know, what does the U.S. benefit from us is relations. Well, I mean, among other things, you know, you get a dead Fuadjakur, a dead Ibrahim Akhil and oh, by the way, a dead Hassan Nasral and a dead Yahya Sinwar to boot there. So I mean, they literally are our man on the spot, essentially doing our dirty work for us. They really don't ask a whole lot in return other than just don't overly criticize us and provide some diplomatic cover at the United Nations. That's essentially the ask. It seems to me to be a pretty reasonable ask. Giving the bang for your buck.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Yes. You know, there's this very troubling. I know you've seen it too, we've talked about it just a little bit. But this idea among some Christians here who maybe just frankly don't like Jewish people, maybe they just don't like Israel. But this idea that actually Muslims and Christians have more in common, their beliefs about Jesus are more similar and that we've been. I've seen this argument. It's crazy to me me that we've been psyoped into believing that Islam is the real, the real problem. When really Islam has a lot of similarities to Christianity when it comes to morality and things like that. I mean, just on its face, just like a rote understanding of Christian theology should be able to tell someone that that is so far from the truth. Obviously all three of these Abrahamic religions have different ideas and about who Jesus was. But with Jews and Christians, we share half of our Bible, we share the Old Testament, we have a belief in the imago day, the fundamentals of Western civilization that really can be found for the most part in the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Like we share those things. And when it comes to Christian persecution, who is persecuting Christians most around the world? Especially when I look in places like Africa. Africa, it's these Islamists. I mean, Christians are being beheaded in places like the Congo from these radical Muslims. And so to me, it is, it is unbelievable propaganda that has no grounding in reality that it's actually Islam and Christianity that are anyway on the same side. And I don't think this is a majority position, but I see Muslims here in America, whether it's Andrew Tate or people like that, saying, yeah, you know, Christians is king. We're on the same side of things. No, we're not. And you argue in your book, not when it comes to all of our theology, but when it comes to our defense of Western civilization and the underlying values that it's actually Jews and Christians that have this very important alliance that we need to realize.

[Brianna Heldt]

Right, yeah, that's very well said. And look, this notion that Christianity and Islam are kind of, you know, two, two toddlers playing in a kindergarten, that they're, that they're kind of holding hands and all is married there. I mean, has anyone expounding this ludicrous theory ever opened a book of world history? I mean, have they read about the Crusades? You know, have you read about the fact that there was a Muslim siege all the way deep into the heart of Vienna, Austria, as recently as the 17th century there? I mean, how about the fact that America's first two wars after the Revolutionary war were literally Against Muslim pirates, the first and second Barbary War. You know, when I was taught history in elementary school, we basically skipped over that convenience. But that happens to have been the case there. So, I mean, this notion that Islam and Christianity are somehow, you know, peanut butter and jelly and all was married there. It's just astonishing. And you could, of course, debunk it on much stronger grounds than I could there. But it's coming fundamentally, I think, from a bad place. It's coming from provocateurs, from frankly, bad faith actors. And these bad faith actors, I think, Ali, what they're trying to do is they are trying to drive a wedge. They're trying to drive a chasm between Christians and Jews and I think basically trying to bamboozle both Christians and Jews that the other is oppressing you and it's not a good fit for you and just basically get out of this bear hug relationship and trying to heal these wounds that other provocateurs have gashed wide open. Trying to heal that wound was a major, major, major purpose of me writing this book. Israel and Civilization. So in the book, Ali, I basically argue we're talking about Western civilization. Well, I'm a lawyer. As we discuss, let's define some terms as lawyers do. What is Western civilization? Well, I argue that Western civilization is basically coterminous with the Bible, that Western civilization and the Bible are essentially interchangeable for one another. I trace it all the way back to God's revelation to Moses and the Israelites standing there in the book of Exodus at Mount Sinai. And the Jewish people, the children of Israel, the nation of Israel, they are the original people of the book. They are the people that brought monotheism to the world. Christianity and Christendom, of course, built Western civilization, but it built Western civilization off of a fundamental Jewish underpinning. There it was the Jewish people that brought so many of the values that we take for granted today to the world. You mentioned Genesis 127, and in Hebrew we would say, B'tselem elohim imago Dei. I argue in the book that Genesis 127 that God made man in his image, man and woman, he created him. That is a single foundational ethical and moral imperative for all of Western civilization. But there's so many other examples. I mean, let's take something as basic prosaic as day to day, as the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would like to be treated. Well, where is that found? It's Leviticus, chapter 19. It's the imperative to treat the stranger as your fellow Speaking of the book of Leviticus, by the way there, you know, I note that on the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia to this day, you know, is not a quote from Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics or anything there on the outside, it's Leviticus. Thou shalt proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the. All the inhabitants thereof. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson famously wanted the national seal of the United States to be most Moses parting the Red Sea. Abraham Lincoln famously spoke of Americans as a quote, almost chosen people, using this covenantal language from the Hebrew Bible, which he quoted all the time in his public speeches there. So this notion of kind of an ecumenical biblical country is just so deeply ingrained in the American DNA. And I really, really do see that slipping away there. And again, trying to kind of put Humpty Dumpty back together again, it's an ambitious task, but that definitely is one of the things that I was trying to do with this book there. But again, to your point, Ali, just really concretely there, we obviously do share so much. I mean, our Bible in Hebrew, it's Hebrew in Hebrew, it's called the Tanakh. That is half of your Bible, frankly, based on page numbers, maybe it's even more than half, but it's a very healthy percentage there. So, I mean, whether we're talking about the books of Genesis or Exodus, whether we're talking about books of Psalms and Proverbs, I mean, there's so much there that literally built this civilization, that literally was the pedestal upon which all of this was possibly structured there. And the fundamental argument in the book, Ally, is that Jews and Christians have to stand shoulder to shoulder like never before because we face the exact same threats. Wokeism, Islamism, global neoliberalism. So it's the homogenizing imperative to stamp out all differences. That's the globalist world, economic, foreign problem. Islamism speaks for itself. Yes, they come for the Jews first, but Hamas explicitly says they want to come for, quote, unquote, all infidels later. That includes Christians and frankly, actually most Muslims for the matter there. And on and on it goes there. So we have the exact same enemies. And in today's day and age, we absolutely are at an inflection point, as is often said there. But that moment calls for nothing less than a joint Jewish Christian ecumenical project of biblical restoration. That's the argument in Israel and civilization.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

And I think our task is really kind of convincing, like professing progressive Christians and then all of the progressive Jews that just don't see things the way we do when it comes to those fundamental values of Western civilization. We have a big task at hand when it comes to that. And I'm sure that that is at least in part the purpose of your book, to convince people of that imperative and I'm grateful for it as always in your insight. Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West. I'm guessing it's available wherever books are sold.

[Brianna Heldt]

Yeah, everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble. It actually sold out on Amazon the morning of publication so this thing came out with a bang. I'm very grate for that, for everyone's support of Israel of biblical values frankly. But nonetheless it is being replenished in real time. So Amazon Barnes Noble books a million again the book is Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West.

[Allie Beth Stuckey]

Well, thank you so much Josh. I really appreciate it.

[Brianna Heldt]

My pleasure. Thank you.