Podcast Summary: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1185 | "Is Pope Francis in Heaven? And Why the New Pope Matters" Featuring Michael Knowles

Release Date: May 7, 2025
Host/Author: Blaze Podcast Network
Guest: Michael Knowles

Introduction to the Conclave and Papal Succession

In the opening segment, Allie Beth Stuckey welcomes Michael Knowles, highlighting the episode's focus on understanding the current pivotal moment in Catholic Church history—the selection of the next pope. She emphasizes that this discussion transcends typical Catholic-Protestant debates, aiming to educate both Catholics and Protestants about the intricacies of papal succession.

Michael Knowles begins by explaining the eligibility for the papacy:

“Any baptized Catholic male is eligible. I haven't gotten any calls from Rome yet, but I think I would look very nice in the red slippers and the miter. So anyway, we'll see how that goes.”
(01:25)

He clarifies the role of cardinals in the conclave, detailing how only cardinal electors under the age of 80 participate in the election process.

Potential Papal Candidates and Their Ideological Leanings

Knowles delves into the current “papabili” — the leading candidates for the papacy — categorizing them into liberal and conservative factions within the Church:

• Cardinal Taglay: Noted as a potential first Asian pope, known for a viral incident where he sang John Lennon's "Imagine" at karaoke, positioning him on the more liberal side.

• Cardinal Parolin: Vatican Secretary of State, viewed as another liberal candidate likely to continue Pope Francis's initiatives.

• Card Pier Battista Pizza Balla: Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, favored for his approachable name (“Papa John” as a regnal name) and considered somewhat conservative.

• Cardinal Serra: From Africa, esteemed among conservative Catholics for his staunch positions, though his advanced age may reduce his chances.

• Cardinal Burke (USA): Lauded by conservatives but possibly deemed too old and excessively conservative.

Knowles remarks on the unpredictability of the conclave, quoting:

“There's an old saying which is the guy who goes into the conclave of Pope walks out a cardinal. The conclaves have a habit of surprising people.”
(05:18)

Criteria for Selecting the Next Pope

Allie Beth probes into the standards the conclave uses to select a pope beyond age and ideological stances. Knowles responds by highlighting that the priorities of the cardinals often diverge from contemporary American political concerns:

“Every single cardinal, including the most liberal cardinals, is far to the right of just about any American politician, including the most right-wing Republican.”
(05:36)

He identifies key issues influencing the selection:

• Evangelization: Central to the Church’s mission, as emphasized by Bishop Robert Barron.

• Liturgy: The form of the Mass and worship practices hold significant weight, impacting believers' faith and understanding.

• Unity Post-Fascist Francis: Addressing the divisions left by Pope Francis's tenure, which Knowles describes as “pretty divisive.”

He asserts the conclave is likely to conclude swiftly, given Pope Francis's declining health.

Assessing Pope Francis's Pontificate: Liberal or Conservative?

Allie Beth questions whether Pope Francis was apolitical or leaned towards liberalism, especially concerning his restrictions on the Latin Mass. Knowles offers a nuanced perspective:

“Historically, ... Francis was a liberal pope, and there was a lot of confusion during his pontificate.”
(11:43)

He cites controversial statements and actions by Pope Francis, such as remarks on LGBT issues, demonstrating the complexity of his position. Knowles notes:

“One of the most famous lines from his pontificate ... 'God can't bless sin.'”
(11:43)

He concludes that the need for a unifying, possibly more traditional pope stems from the confusion and division experienced during Francis's leadership.

The Importance of Tradition and Liturgy in Catholic Faith

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the importance of traditional practices, such as the Latin Mass, and their impact on Catholics' beliefs:

“The way that you worship is going to affect the way that you believe.”
(05:18)

Knowles argues that deviations in liturgical practices can lead to theological confusion, referencing a study indicating only 30% of American Catholics believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. He emphasizes that maintaining traditional liturgy is essential for preserving doctrinal integrity and fostering genuine faith among believers.

Catholic Doctrine on Salvation and Sin

The conversation shifts to Catholic beliefs regarding salvation, sin, and the efficacy of sacraments. Knowles explains the distinction between venial and mortal sins, and the role of confession:

“For something to be a mortal sin, you have to do it with full knowledge. It's got to be grave matter. You've got to fully consent to it.”
(35:30)

He discusses the inviolability of the confessional seal and the potential repercussions of laws attempting to breach this sanctity, highlighting the conflict between civil authorities and ecclesiastical doctrine.

Excommunication and Clergy Compliance with Secular Laws

Allie Beth introduces a pressing issue: the Catholic Church's stance on excommunicating priests who comply with new state laws mandating the reporting of child abuse confessions. Knowles vehemently criticizes this move:

“This has almost nothing to do with child abuse or protecting children. This has everything to do with weakening the church.”
(48:17)

He argues that such laws undermine the sacramental theology of confession and deter faithful Catholics from seeking absolution, thereby weakening the Church's spiritual authority and community integrity.

Interfaith Perspectives on Purgatory and Afterlife

In response to a question about whether Catholics believe Pope Francis is in purgatory, Knowles provides an overview of Catholic teachings on the afterlife:

“Purgatory... is a period of expurgation where Christ finishes purging you of your sins because nothing imperfect can enter into heaven.”
(37:39)

He contrasts this with Protestant beliefs, which generally reject purgatory in favor of immediate entry into heaven upon death. Knowles emphasizes the importance of humility in praying for the deceased, aligning with traditional Catholic practices.

Closing Thoughts and Final Reflections

As the conversation wraps up, Knowles reiterates the challenges facing the Catholic Church in maintaining doctrinal purity amidst modern pressures. He underscores the need for a pope who embodies traditional values and unifies the global Catholic community.

“There is going to be a real call for a more unifying pope to serve in the next pontificate.”
(14:08)

Allie Beth and Knowles exchange final pleasantries, emphasizing the importance of understanding and upholding Catholic traditions and teachings in the face of contemporary societal changes.

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Michael Knowles (01:25):
  “Any baptized Catholic male is eligible. I haven't gotten any calls from Rome yet, but I think I would look very nice in the red slippers and the miter.”

• Michael Knowles (05:36):
  “Every single cardinal, including the most liberal cardinals, is far to the right of just about any American politician, including the most right-wing Republican.”

• Michael Knowles (11:43):
  “Historically, ... Francis was a liberal pope, and there was a lot of confusion during his pontificate.”

• Michael Knowles (35:30):
  “For something to be a mortal sin, you have to do it with full knowledge. It's got to be grave matter. You've got to fully consent to it.”

• Michael Knowles (48:17):
  “This has almost nothing to do with child abuse or protecting children. This has everything to do with weakening the church.”

• Michael Knowles (37:39):
  “Purgatory... is a period of expurgation where Christ finishes purging you of your sins because nothing imperfect can enter into heaven.”

Conclusion

This episode of Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey offers an in-depth exploration of the Catholic Church's current dynamics surrounding papal succession, the ideological divides within the conclave, and the broader implications for Catholic doctrine and practice. Michael Knowles provides a critical analysis of Pope Francis's pontificate, the significance of traditional liturgy, and the challenges posed by modern secular laws to ecclesiastical authority. The discussion underscores the pivotal role of the next pope in unifying the Church and preserving its enduring traditions in a rapidly changing world.