← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1209 | Jesus is Moving in LA. Meet the Ministry Behind It | Matthew Barnett
00:53:16
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- [00:01]
A
How does a charity run by a conservative Christian thrive in progressive Los Angeles? Matthew Barnett is the founder of LA Dream Center. He is here today to talk about how we can effectively serve those who are drug addicted, those who are in poverty, how we balance compassion and grace with truth telling and accountability. He has built bridges with the California government. He has also gone head to head with the California government. And so we are talking about all of that and so much more on today' episode of Relatable. This episode is brought to you by the Olive App. Olive App is making America healthy again by showing you what is really in your food, even beyond the ingredients labels on the products that you are buying in your grocery store. Download the Olive App today. Available now on the App Store. Matthew, thanks so much for taking the time to join me in person. This is so fun.
- [01:05]
B
I am so glad to be here. Thank you.
- [01:07]
A
Yes. You know, I've been following you for a long time, the work that you've been doing in la. Can we back up and talk about how you came to la, how you started the Dream Center?
- [01:17]
B
Yeah, it's everything I never thought I'd be doing, to be honest. You know, I came from a big church in Phoenix, Arizona. My father's pastor, Tommy Barnett, great church. And one day a guy came to him and said, pastor Tommy, there's a little building in downtown LA that is in the inner city and the banks are going to take it over. The pastor's 80 years of age. Would you plant a church in downtown LA and take this over before it gets lost? And my dad said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll figure something out. Because just the thought of that really upset him, you know. And then he tried to find a pastor to take it over. It's in the middle of really bad gang territory. I mean, Fast and Furious, Training Day, all that was filmed in that area, you know, and. And when he showed him around the neighborhood and saw gang members Drinking 40s on the steps of the church, a lot of the guys said, I don't really feel led of the Holy Spirit to come here. So he asked me to come for three months until he could find a real pastor. That's what he kept saying.
- [02:10]
A
Your dad asked you?
- [02:11]
B
He asked me 20 years of age to come. And three months, nothing happened. Six months, nothing happened. And so one day I was just so lonely. Home every night. Didn't know anybody. Inherited 18 people in the church and they're all like, older. And I managed to drive the church from 18 down to 2. We were having a revival in Reverse, you know. And one day God just spoke to me and he said, guide your dream of being a success and live to the dream of being a blessing. Love what you have, celebrate what you have and use what you have. So I had a desk and a phone and I moved on the sidewalk and I just started talking to all the people walking their kids to school in the morning. I had three bags of food and a jar of candy and just started serving and just loving what I had and never wanting to be anywhere else. And so finally my dad couldn't find a real pastor, so he asked me to stay. And I've been here for 31 years in downtown LA. And it would start off with a little church and a desk on the sidewalk and has now turned into, you know, a hospital that later that the Catholic Church sold us to for $3.9 million. And they were going to sell it to Paramount for 16 million. And so it's turned from that little place to a 400,000 square foot hospital where we have 700 residents that live there every day. Nobody pays. Homelessness, trafficking, every type of issue. You can imagine veterans that are homeless open 24 hours, seven days a week. And it all started by just saying yes and showing up and just trying to survive one more day.
- [03:41]
A
Okay, so tell me what that looks like on a day to day basis. You have 700 people who live there who come from all different walks of life. These, these are people who have fallen on hard times for a variety of reasons. How long do they typically stay at the Dream at the LA Dream Center?
- [03:56]
B
They stay for a year. And the reason why is they have the luxury of time. People make bad decisions. You know, people who found they're addicted to meth. And homeless families are involved in all kinds of things are emancipated minors that live there. Almost every emancipated minor, when they become 18, ends up in prostitution. Like 80% of them will end up in prison or prostitution. Six months. So when people have time and they can really start working on core issues of their life, that's when they change. And so every year is based on the, Every program is based upon a one year concept. Ben Carson came to the Dream center and he was walking around and we explained to him the year and he looked at me and he goes, that's amazing, because in a year it takes the molecules in the brain all these times to start forming. He went totally scientific on me, right? I'm like, I totally knew that the whole time, you know, trying to act smart. But yeah, you know, we give people the luxury of time and the opportunity, you know, and that's what really helps people develop character. We have gangs coming in, guys from like South Central and then skinheads from Huntington beach. And they end up becoming friends at the end because nothing will change a person's life except the word of God. When, when people meet in a program, they're fighting an addiction and they're fighting it with the word. You can't legislate a transformation like this. It just comes from the spirit of God moving in the lives of people every single day.
- [05:16]
A
So tell me, what programs exist within the Dream Center?
- [05:20]
B
Yeah, we have a drug and alcohol rehab program we call Discipleship. It's a year long and the second year option to save money, live on campus, and rebuild your life with $10,000 before they launch out into the world. So it's really a two year program. We have a place for veterans that are homeless who have served our country to come and live for a year to get their lives back together again. And then we have homeless families, like 43 homeless families, 200 plus people live there that live there for a year. And all of them pretty much show up in the cars. They show up in the cars and they just beg for a place to live. And then we work with them. And every 30 days their housing is up for review to make sure they're showing up to parenting classes, they're getting their kids in school, they're doing the right thing. And then we renew the 30 days up to a year and then even longer in some cases. So everything has accountability, everything has structure. But within all that, there's a great sense of victory, that people are going somewhere with their life and doing something. And so it really isn't like the housing first program that goes on where you just give people housing. They could do whatever they wanted to do. It is really challenging people to dream and do big things. We just don't serve people's need, we serve people's potential. And that's the big difference. When people come into rehab, the first question we ask them is, what is your dream? And it freaks them out because they're just trying to survive one more night. But the Bible says that when there's no revelation, people cast off restraint, which means there's no reason to help have self control if there's nothing great to live for. And so by giving them a dream, then we work through the core issues that are blocking them from getting to the dream. So we try to shine a big spotlight of hope. Right in the beginning in order that they might have something to go for and attain to in the future.
- [07:02]
A
Wow. What have you learned about homelessness during these 30 years? What do you think? A lot of people just don't understand about it.
- [07:11]
B
Every testimony we have at church, we have a four minute testimony. Every church service from somebody whose life has been transformed. The Dream Center. 90% of every testimony says my parents went through a divorce or there's some family breakdown that became the traumatizing event that put them in that situation. I do also think the culture of drugs and just the openness to everything has created a culture where people just think it's friendly to become addicted to drugs. And then it starts a downward cycle of homelessness and things along those lines. But the breakdown of the family always seems to be the core issue when people are talking about a traumatic event that sent them into a situation or a negative spiral.
- [07:53]
A
And I think there's just, there's so much conversation today about homelessness because it's become a very politically charged discussion and debate about what can be done policy wise to help this issue. And it doesn't really seem like in most cities, including in Los Angeles, that we're going in the right direction. And I know that you're not on the public policy side of things, but you've obviously seen this city change, you've seen the policies implemented. I mean, what are, what are your thoughts about whether, know, the policies have helped or exacerbated the issue?
- [08:27]
B
Oh, we're spending so much money, it's unbelievable on homelessness. It's crazy. It's like it cost us $7,500 a year to house someone, rehabilitate them, educate them. It costs like $175,000 a year to incarcerate them or deal with the issues of homelessness per person. So there's no accountability. There's no reason for people to really grow. I mean, it would almost be better. I know this sounds crazy. It would almost be better if you gave everyone $10,000 to rebuild their life who went through a one year structured, faith based type of program. It would save us way more money than we're spending right now. I mean, you know, but there's just no incentive to change. There's no incentive for people to want to go forward. We're trying to legislate something that is dealing with the heart. And when you're dealing with homeless people, you got to have a lot of encounters with people before they're ready to make that change in their life. And that's what we do. We just keep showing up in their tents, we sing worship songs in their tent. And we just keep having many encounters before they're really ready to make that decision. But I think the general overall prevailing thought is we can't win. We can't win. People are going to use drugs. Let's try to get them into safe places. Let's build $1.2 billion hotels for homeless people. And then they get there and they can't figure out why, with these beautiful spaces we build for them, they're almost empty in six months. Because there's a heart issue, there's a transformation issue. There's something. There's deep rooted issues that are there, that no matter how nice you build a facility, they're going to empty out of it and they're going to be back on the streets. Because that mindset is brokenness. It's lost. And so, you know, I think to provide incentives for programs that are really doing things and really support people who are already doing it, that's something Ellie doesn't really do. They, you know, they go all in with whatever their thought, inability to pivot really quick to issues. And so, you know, we meet them on a relational level. We do 1200 hot meals a day. 1200 people show up in the kitchen. We love on them, you know, and they might show up 10 times to the kitchen. On the 11th time, they'll show up to a program. So I just feel like there's a lot of resistance towards models that work. And I think that's one of the biggest problems. If they never get out of this mindset that we can't win, we can't solve it. We can't directly approach people, why they're doing what they're doing. The government, the government, we will never get to these issues of the. Of the brokenhearted people.
- [10:58]
A
Quick pause to remind you. To sign up for Share the arrows, go to sharethe arrows.com and get your tickets today. It's October 11th outside of Dallas, Texas. This year, Share the Arrows is brought to you by our friends at EveryLife. Y' all, I am so excited. We are getting so close. Close. If you haven't bit the bullet and gotten your ticket, you gotta get it today because seats are going to run out. We've already got thousands of you signed up. It is such a powerful, edifying day. There's not another Christian conference like this. It is also the biggest conservative women's conference in existence, and this is only our second year. It's not primarily about politics. It's mostly about theology and apologetics and how to apply, apply our Christian worldview to the rest of life, including politics. But you will find that there are so many conservative Christian women there who are ready to link arms with you. You will love it. Go to share the arrows.com so do you get any support from local politicians, the local LA government? Do they say, hey, Matthew, great job. We're so, you know, know, grateful to get to partner with you and battling this. I mean, what does that look like?
- [12:09]
B
You know, you get close and then you get down to the fact where, you know, a lot of the transgender issues are you, you know, you can't claim your moral stand on what you want your program to be.
- [12:20]
A
You know, and so because it's Christian, they want you to affirm all these other things.
- [12:24]
B
They want you to affirm these other things. When it gets down to it, they love what you do. You know, they'll sing your praises to the moon, but they just won't get around to support exactly what you do until you fulfill that political agenda. And it's really a shame because there's so many lives that could be changed, you know, through the system. And, and so it's just always that sense of political ideology, not what works is going to drive a lot of the policy. And, and so we just, you know, do we. Can we just go for it? And I think there's only one program that we work with the government and that is the USDA Food. We give away all of our food trucks, go to 40 sites a week, and all we have to do is provide them a name of people we're feeding and we can invite them to church after we give them the food, which is fine. That's good. You know, if something works, we'll piece it together. If it doesn't work, we've turned down millions and millions and millions of dollars just to stay true to the fact that the gospel changes people's lives and never compromise. And There have been 10 to 15 million dollars grants where we had to affirm many of the things, but we turn them down because, you know, the only thing that sustains our community is the power of the Word of God changing people's lives every single day. So it's been a tough road because what happens is, you know, organizations that start off and they're in the Word and they love God and they're preaching the Word, over time, they get desperate and they start compromising and then they become a watered down version of really what made them who they are. And that is, you know, people who really trust in God from their core.
- [13:57]
A
So you're saying that you would get offered this government money, but they would have strings attached, which said, we'll give you this money to help people rehabilitate or to get fed, but you have to affirm this about LGBTQ or maybe about abortion or whatever. And you said no?
- [14:17]
B
Yes, we've said no. You know, families that live together that aren't married, we'll work with them, but we'll work them within the system that works for us. You know, and a lot of those types of issues that stand against every kind of the moral ground, you know, like trans men go to the program. And just. So it's. It's. It's definitely an uphill battle, because you would think that there would be somewhere in that. We'll say, okay, well, this is kind of our ideology, but this works. Let's, you know, that's a pocket of people that are being helped. Let's creatively think about, you know, resourcing that and this. And then. But we just decided that we're just going to go all in on God, all in on the fact that God loves the people that we're trying to serve more than we do. And his Word talks about, you know, he who gives to the poor, lends to God, he will repay. Like, we're backed up by a lot of scripture. It's. It's been scary at times, and it's been rewarding at times, but the fact is this, we just believe that when there's a need, we step out and we go and we figure it out along the way. And I don't think they'll ever understand that mindset that says, you know, when the fires broke out, the Dream center became one of the great phenomenons in America. 19,000 cars that showed up through the food line, and our team said, what's what? I literally texted our team. I said, throw food on the parking lot and let's just help people. And then Andrew Gruel came by. Chef Gruel became my dearest friend.
- [15:41]
A
Yeah.
- [15:41]
B
And he started bringing stuff down for Orange county was awesome. They rallied to la. And whatever they think about the Orange curtain, man, that was broken down. They started showing up, and it was just amazing. And then we were able to give away $3 million in checks to people. And one on one, through all these different miracles that began to happen, people that showed up.
- [16:02]
A
And so, yeah, gosh, I remember seeing that on Instagram. So you're talking about the LA fires, and people obviously Displaced. Many people had their homes destroyed. They didn't know what to do. And they show up at the Dream Center. They got food, they got clothing, they got the resources. Some people got the shelter that they needed. And I remember you're post, and it was kind of like one of those things that we were talking about earlier. It seemed to me that it's like, well, I don't know how much more we're going to get. I don't know how many more volunteers we're going to get. We're just trusting God and food and people just kept showing up and showing up.
- [16:40]
B
Yeah, it's power. It's the ultimate test of faith. You know, you step out and you go for, like, Tony Robbins, Anthony Robbins, I've never met him before, showed up totally moved by what's going on. He goes, I'm going to give you guys $110,000 checks to personally hand to people. So I'm going out in the lots in Altadena, standing with people, praying over them, crying with them, giving them $10,000 checks. I've never met the guy in my entire life, but he was showing up. And then, of course, the faith community is always the biggest response. And we just kept going. We just like, you know, 15 minutes away from Altadena, we are. And the school, one of the charter schools that elementary, they. Their school burned down the fire. And it's a charter school that doesn't do homework because they believe that families should spend time with their kids. So all of the, you know, the chromebooks were in. In the school. So we adopted the whole school and just began to go for it. And. And it was just amazing how God, just when you go and you have no plan, but you just do what you can with what you have, that's always been the story of the Dream Center. That's always been the story of where the miraculous breaks out. And even today, you know, we'll have 850 families show up to get food and just walk through the line. And it's kind of become. Because of that, it's become Joseph's storehouse for this next event that's happened and all these things that are happening. So we just believe that you earn the right to be heard and. And by serving. And our motto is outlast everything. Outlast liquor stores, outlast the pimps, you know, outlast the drug dealers. And 70% of my staff are graduates of rehab.
- [18:17]
A
Wow, I love that motto.
- [18:19]
B
Yeah. So we got just outlast everything. That's our mindset yeah. And so death has been proclaimed over our place 100 times, but God just keeps resurrecting it every single time we face a big battle.
- [18:32]
A
Praise God. Well, it makes sense because we serve the God that did outlast everything. I mean, we tried to kill him and Satan tried to defeat him and he conquered death. And so it makes sense that those of us who follow him also have, like, that resurrection power and the things that God has called us to. Another pause to tell you about We Heart Nutrition, y' all. I love my products from We Heart Nutrition. I take them every single day. They're postnatal, they're magnesium, their omega 3s, their iron supplement, which has been so super effective for me and helpful for my energy levels. I just added in their wholesome balance, which is really good for balancing hormones. If you're pregnant, you're struggling with morning sickness, or if you're postpartum trying to rebalance your hormones, or if you struggle with PMS symptoms, you need this wholesome balance supplement. It's got clinically backed ingredients like curcumin and turmeric and key B vitamins to help you feel your best and balance those hormones that might be causing irritability and things like nausea. Go to weheartnutrition.com use code ally. You'll get 20% off your order. We heartnutrition.com code ally. Tell me how it was during COVID I imagine that that was an especially turbulent and difficult time.
- [19:55]
B
Oh, it was probably most stressful time in my life. I mean, I literally went through a stroke during that period. I mean, it was really tough.
- [20:02]
A
I mean, yes, you know what?
- [20:03]
B
I remember that I had three strokes in my brain and wow, there was just a lot of things that were happening. You know, we started our food line and people were driving by and getting food, and we just opened it up and just like this, it turned into like 12 hours a day, 365 days a year, feeding people. And we started two weeks into the pandemic. I was driving down the road. The streets were empty when they announced this lockdown policy and there was no cars on the road. I was just driving around and they said, only essential workers can come and be involved with whatever they need to do. And I thought to myself, and I did the calculation. Recently we've given probably about $1.2 billion of aid to the community over the years. And so I just kind of deemed myself to be essential worker. I knighted myself, you know, you are an essential worker. So I said, I guess I Am. And so just kind of, like, blindly and just smiling. I just showed up and said, we're going to feed people. And people start showing up and putting stuff in people's cars. And everyone's like, you can't be doing this. They can't be doing this, but somebody's doing it, you know, and we're just feeding people. And it kind of blew up. Went viral all across the country, and people, like, started showing up. And even some of the same politicians that told you not to do it, they were like, I think I need to go down and get a photo op there or something, you know, because action was going on. And so we didn't, like, make a real big point about it. We. We just kind of showed up and act ignorant and said, we're just going to feed people, you know? And it just turned into something so amazing. And we were praying for people in their cars and saw so many people scared. The culture of fear that was put upon people, the housing projects. What Covid did to the poor was one of the most unbelievable things I've experienced. We've been in housing projects for 25 years serving the kids there. Kids were left in these projects preyed upon by gangs, preyed upon by predators. We were showing up social workers that weren't allowed to show up or calling us, saying, can you check on people? We'd be like, sure, we'll go, wait.
- [22:04]
A
The social workers were not allowed to check up on the children that were supposed to be in their charge because of COVID policy completely shut down.
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B
And they were just kind of pawning it off to us.
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A
Wow.
- [22:17]
B
And we gladly did it because there was a need.
- [22:19]
A
And what did you find when you went into those housing projects? You got scared little kids that are left in a place where they're very vulnerable. What did y' all see?
- [22:28]
B
We saw kids joining gangs at a higher rate. We saw kids hungry. We saw a lot of pedophiles in the community that were taking advantage of them being home every single day. We saw food programs that were shut down to help the kids in the school system. And so we had to provide all of our food trucks that were going out in there. You just saw. And I think that was one of my greatest frustrations. Someone who advocates for the poor and the hurting. So many families who were able to adapt and get tutors and get private lessons, things like that, were able to kind of navigate the storm. So we just set up an outdoor school, and it was. We had about 120 kids show up and their parents were dropping them off and going to look for, like, jobs. And we were just working with the kids every day and outdoors, having classes. And here's the thing that bothered me the most during COVID that a lot of promises were made that I think LA sometimes thinks that just because a governor says something, it's done. Like every kid's gonna have a laptop in the school system. Well, the kids that came to us, none of them had them. We had to buy them. And I think oftentimes it's the illusion that if you say something to the public, you can say anything and there's no follow up on it. And that's what we saw. We're like, no, none of these kids have laptops. So we went out and bought it. So there's a whole, like, issue of perception and projection that doesn't fit the reality of oftentimes what is really happening or being provided for the people.
- [23:54]
A
So many policies, COVID policies, law enforcement policies, drug policies in the state of California are done in the name of compassion. They say that they are the ones that are actually helping the marginalized and the truly vulnerable, the ones that you're serving. But what have you seen the effect of, for example, law enforcement policy in la? What, what, what outcomes have you seen over the past 30 years?
- [24:23]
B
Well, first of all, I think one of the most discouraging statements ever made by our governor is when he said it's irresponsible or reckless to think that somebody can truly live sober. When that comment was made. Wow.
- [24:34]
A
I think he made that, yeah.
- [24:36]
B
Really close to that context. But it's irresponsible to think that somebody could live sober. When I heard that comment, I'm like, we've given up. Yeah, we have. We have no belief that people can change. We have no belief that people can escape darkness. And when I heard that, my jaw dropped. Was almost like. It was almost like something that was said that came from the spirit of darkness. I mean, it really was kind of a really creepy defeatist mentality mindset.
- [25:01]
A
It's a great accuser. You'll never get better. You'll never defeat drunkenness or whatever.
- [25:06]
B
You had guys with fentanyl addictions and all of that, they're getting free and getting clean. Clean. And they're excited, they're praising and worshiping the Lord. I hear my office every morning saying, give thanks with a grateful heart echoing up to my office. And so a lot of that. And then, you know, our law enforcement, our police man during COVID they came to us and they were like, do what you do. Open up your church. We need something positive in this community, you know, help people. And they were there with us every day, protecting us. So I think there is this, like, almost like kind of like the last line of defense is really a lot of our law enforcement who's navigating a lot of this messaging, especially during COVID and saying, no, we don't want to do this. We don't want to lock up somebody for this reason. We don't want. So there's a lot of people that understand that good needs to prevail in the community. And they really backed us up during that time. And just, you know, they did flyovers, like, weekly with helicopters, lep thanking the Dream center for what we did to keep the morale high. And so I think there is just this sense of, like, what is said. And yet the police department that really wants to advocate and work with people. And we saw that during that time.
- [26:18]
A
Wow. Okay. So here's what Gavin Newsom said specifically. You're exactly right. He said in 2020, quote, clean and sober is the biggest damn mistake this country ever made. In reference to shelter policies requiring sobriety for homeless individuals to access services to. So what do you think about that?
- [26:36]
B
That is a total slap in the face because the people come into our program, they want to change. I mean, they literally want to change, and they have a sliver of confidence that they can. And our job is to try to increase that and give them the reward of staying one more day. But that comment was simply kind of like the cultural feeling over the last five years. We can't overcome stuff. We can't win. We can't fight poverty. We can't achieve on our own. And so we just kind of have to rebuke that message every day, by the way that we live. A lot of people say you have to be relevant to the culture to reach. I don't agree with that. I believe you have to be revolutionary. You have to show them something they've never seen before. You have to show them smiles that they've never seen. I don't believe the theory that you have to be from the neighborhood to reach people in the neighborhood. I believe you just have to outlast things in the community, and you have to be a fixture and stay and fight. And that's where you get your street credit. And so that's really kind of that mentality. You know, we have gang members protecting our building. They don't tag our building because we feed their parents every single day. It's off Limits. You know, we got guys in the community playing basketball leagues, and we pray before every single game, and they don't fight, you know, or if they do, you know, they. They don't. They'll get it right the next time, you know, so. But it's like. It's just one of those things where the spirit of the Lord just kind of rests in a very strong way. And not a weird supernatural, spooky, but just. There's just a prevailing layer of just God's presence. And so it's kind of that mindset that we're fighting against, that, you know, those who want to do right, those who wanted to help you, you know, they're almost the enemy. But, you know, you fight the good fight of faith. And that's what Paul told Timothy. You know, fight for things that pertain to the faith. Yeah, and. And that's what we're doing. And. And we have fun. We're not, like, overly religious. We, you know, we can adapt and. But at the same time, Christ is the foundation of everything we have.
- [28:34]
A
How do you balance grace and truth? I imagine you've got a lot of people who show up who don't believe the same things you do. Maybe they affirm sin or are living in some kind of sin themselves, or you've got people who seem to fall back into the same cycle over and over again. I mean, we can all relate to that on some level. And so y' all are sharing the gospel with them. Y' all are telling them there's a better way, but at the same time, you're embracing them when they show up.
- [29:01]
B
So.
- [29:01]
A
So what does that look like? Practically to show grace and truth?
- [29:05]
B
Yeah, it really is one of those things where you get them to see that the standard of the Word of God is a powerful thing. You never change a standard. The standard is there. This is what we're going for. And, you know, it's going to be a battle. It's going to. A lot of foundational things have got to come down in your life. It doesn't change the fact that truth is truth. God's word is God's word. And in the pursuit of that, you will fall, you will get back up, but just keep getting back up again. So we don't preach the standards if it's some terrifying, scary thing to achieve, but it's something that God has created to give you your very, very best life. And we just aim for it. We go for it. We consider it a challenge. We consider it, you know, fun. Like, you know, we have one guy who came into our ministry and you know, he comes from the gay lifestyle. And he said, pastor, I'm still dealing with these thoughts and tendencies even after I graduated your rehab program for a year. And he said, but you know what? I'm just, this is what I'm going to do. I'm just going to live celibate. I'm going to love God with all my heart. I'm going to go for it, you know, and just live for him and just live for that relationship. So people just understand that like that standard is God's way of creating order to your life and great things. And we constantly go for it. But if you fall short, we're always there to pick you back up again. Let's go again. Let's, you know, let's don't let too much time come before a failure. And that because that's where the enemy lives. He lives in that distance. He tries to create longer and longer times away from the presence of God. Let's get back up again. So it's just constant battle because we're dealing with people such foundational brokenness that you have to give them something powerful to live for. And then you have to constantly pick them back up, let them know, you know, two steps forward, one steps back. But you're still gaining ground. You're getting closer to what God has for you. So there's a lot of encouragement and yet holding the line at the same time. That goes on.
- [30:58]
A
Yeah, y' all. I love Cozy Earth. I love my loungewear. I love my pajamas. I love my sheets from Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth makes the most luxurious, breathable, softest stuff out there. They make for amazing gifts. Or if you're just looking to like Comfy Max. That's what I like to do when I'm just lounging. I really want to be comfortable at all times. Then go ahead, treat yourself to some Cozy Earth loungewear and pajamas. They also, for their sheets, have 100 night sleep trial. So you can try it for 100 nights. If you hate it, then you can get your money back, which is pretty amazing. Go to cozyearth.com use code relatable for up to 40% off. That's cozier.com code relatable. I imagine that forgiveness is a big part of this transformation. You mentioned that a lot of these people have trauma sometime early in their life or maybe they were betrayed or they were abandoned. You mentioned people who are in gangs. Obviously you've got a lot of enmity and conflict there. And so how do Y' all walk people through forgiveness and letting go of what a lot of people would say are very justified grievances.
- [32:17]
B
Yeah, you know, it. It's interesting. Every testimony that we have, someone will talk about how they were raised. Their dad beat him, or, you know, sexually abused them, things like that. And then they'll say something very strange. They'll say, yeah, but deep down in my heart, my parents were good people. And I'm hearing that. I'm like, that doesn't sound like someone's a good person who did that to you. So I think there's a longing in people's heart to still want to advocate for something good for someone. It's really interesting. And so a lot of them, they go through this process, and then they kind of identify the hurt, and then there's a side of them that says, that person, there's still good in them. And so when we work with them and go through those layers of issues and pain and heartache, sometimes they're the easiest. People who come through our program that want to forgive, it's really interesting. Maybe they see the depths of pain that someone caused them. But when they get through those layers and start working through them, they're the most forgiving people I've ever met in my entire life. I don't know why I can never understand that dynamic of being hurt the most end up forgiving the most. But I do believe this. I do believe when you have no cell phone every day in the program like they do for a year, no.
- [33:32]
A
Cell phone at all for a year.
- [33:34]
B
No smoking allowed. No, like, you know, just get your quick little fix. None of that.
- [33:39]
A
Wow.
- [33:39]
B
And you're fully. And we tell them it's going to be the hardest year. If you're not ready for it, go to the shelter for 30 days. You can stay there. But when you're fully in the word of God like that, you go all in for a year, everything about your belief system begins to change. Yeah, it gets stripped away. You know, the things that. And you have a lot of time to think about your life and your future. And so I think that's what makes it special, is just in such a detox of the world and just an immersion of the things of God. People always say, do you have problems with guys in your rehab program? I say, well, sometimes they'll leave. They can reapply in 30 days. Nothing's forcing them to stay there. But I have more problem, actually, with my Bible school kids who come for a year, you know what I mean, than I Do the guys in rehab. They might leave and quit, but they're under this unbelievable structure that they're working with every single day. And they're just powerful people. They're my heroes, actually. I mean, they're guys that are just in there. One guy sleeping under the Hollywood sign. He just came here. We've had girls that are coming in so beaten down by human trafficking. We had one girl that her dad was filming her and inviting her friends over as a teenager and put her in underground porn. Totally prostitute since all she's known since she's 15 showed up. Our program was in our parking lot. She was walking. Her hair was down to this. She was so skinny. She looked like a girl out of a horror film, really. And then every month, I saw her head begin to lift a little bit more. She began to talk. Now she's a preaching machine. I mean, she can, like, literally get up there and give a testimony. Like, this is what God's done in my life. We're like, whoa, where'd that come from? And so I've seen the impossible. I have seen people that were bound by all these demonic forces have their lives fully transformed, and then forgiveness becomes just a part of who they are. This is who I am now. This is. I am a. I'm a child of God. I can do hard things. I can forgive the people who hurt me. And they take on this warrior mentality of almost being unstoppable in the sense of what they can take on next in the things of God.
- [35:37]
A
Yeah, you mentioned kind of like a demonic force. Can you talk a little bit about how you've seen moments of true spiritual warfare? I don't know if you've ever seen someone who is truly demonically possessed, but as you said, someone who's clearly being led by Satan, like, what does that looked like in this fight?
- [35:58]
B
Every day, it's the police department dropping a guy off in our program. Like, he's a. He'll say things like, well, I wanted to put him in jail, but I believe there might be a little bit of good inside this person. And so the police officer will fill his application and drop him off, and then he'll come through the program and flourish. One guy was, like, in chains, and he had, like, muzzled and everything. It was like. And police is taking him up and said, hey, man, could you work with this guy? I'm like, okay, we'll figure it out, you know, and. But, you know, I've seen people come in the program, and they were just out of their mind. Like on drugs. They were hallucinating, hearing voices. They went, they went to our detox and we were just like giving them chocolate in the word of God, basically to help them, you know, and just walk them through the whole process. And then to see them shake that off and then suddenly they're like speaking coherently. It's really strange because I'm literally seeing a progressive deliverance that has taken place over time in people's lives to where I stop, I look back and I say, I don't even know who you were anymore. It's almost scary in a beautiful way. It's like, whoa. This is like a full transformation of a person. But I, I do believe a lot of people that deliverance and that just takes time. It just takes new programming, it takes the word of God, it takes worship. It takes a lot of things just casually beginning to take over inch by inch in a person's life. And over time they start to change. You know, we had one guy living under the bridge for 18 years, homeless.
- [37:24]
A
Wow.
- [37:24]
B
His name was Barry. 18 years. He's so famous, people are taking pictures of him like he would never leave that area in one day. You know, we have 6,000 kids a year that do short term missions and volunteer from all over the country for one week. Some girl from Oklahoma who's never been to the hood before says, I'm going to go find that guy. I'm going to bring him to the Dream Center. And I tried to reach that guy for like 20 years. And I'm like. And my first thought was, if God's man of power and faith can do it, what makes you think you can get him here? You know, but my dad always taught me that when somebody tells you to do something you don't believe they can do, never say it. Just say, well, praise God. So I told her, praise God. You know, go for it. She went under the bridge. Teenage girl found that homeless man, grabbed him by the hand, brought him to the Dream center, and he was in the food line.
- [38:08]
A
Wow.
- [38:09]
B
And he'd come by to get food every day. He finally left the bridge. That was his first step. And then he'd take his food, wouldn't go to the Bible. We have a little five minute chapel before. Wouldn't show up to that. Just went under the bridge every day. And one day I was getting mad. I said, God, you know, this guy's using us. He's coming by, getting free food, doesn't want anyone to pray for him. He doesn't want to go to Bible study. This is what God really impressed upon my spirit. And that was, if you want to be a bridge of hope to the world, you've got to allow yourself to be walked on. Let him use you every single day. Let him get all the free food he wants, build relationship. One day this man came up to me. He's about 60 years of age, he's homeless. He said, pastor, would you mind if I go into your rehab program? And I'm thinking to myself, this is going to be so tough for this guy. I mean, our rehab program is not like the ones in Malibu where they give you whirlpools and pedicures and all that. I mean, it's beans and rice in Jesus Christ, you know, it's like hardcore. And he's like, yeah. I said, yeah, you can praise the Lord. Go to the program. 30 days. How's he doing? He made it 90 days. The guy graduates the program after living under the bridge for 18 years. He's now ahead of our, of our first phase of people coming off the streets, he's the most on fire guy and homeless. Barry is now a pastor. Barry on our staff. He became a licensed pastor. He reminds me of it every single day. He's like, pastor. He goes, I'm a licensed minister of the gospel. I go, I know you are, man. Let's keep celebrating that every day. And we have these little chapels in the kitchen. He speaks like 15 times a week. He goes, pastor, how many times you speak last week? I'm like, three. Because I spoke 15. I'm like, oh, yeah. We're gonna work on your pride, brother. We laugh and have fun, but it's just, you know, you see people almost like zombies in our city where it's like the walking dead, but yet they can come back to life again.
- [39:59]
A
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- [41:26]
B
Yeah, LA is at a place right now where it doesn't even necessarily need ice raids or things like that for it to blow up. It's a powder keg now. You got really trouble people in the community. You got broken people. You have a lawlessness of rejection of everything, of God. So whether it be ice riots or whatever comes next, it's just, it's at a place now to where the tension is so high and the anger and the destructive mentality is so far there that I was just basically saying this might be one thing, but it's always going to be another thing. Until that root is taking down of our community of opposition, anger, frustration, bitterness. Just the whole mindset is broken down. So I wasn't surprised by it. This will cool down and then something new will come up. So LA anymore doesn't really need a reason to rise up. They'll find a reason to rise up. And that's one of the things that we're dealing with now. You know, I know they're going after more of the bad actors, you know, the people who've really, you know, committed a lot of crimes. And if you get in the way of that, you might be deported too, at the same time. But, you know, I'm also in a very interesting, interesting area where I'm navigating a lot of that. But at the same time, you know, we support our borders, you know, being enforced. We support, you know, people who are here to do bad things, you know, out of the country. And we support the rule of law, really, that we, we create this problem with 20 million people letting them enter during the last four years, completely outrageous. And I think most people agree with that. But I think in the beginning, if our, if our governor wouldn't just had a hostile position towards the President, they probably could have worked together on a lot of things and got a lot of things Taken care of. But I think the general resistance is like, it's power, it's politics. It's everything that doesn't give life, and that's what they give life to in our community.
- [43:25]
A
Yeah, he's calling Trump a dictator for a lot of things and has for a while. He did the same thing to Governor DeSantis, but. But it sounds like some of his policies during COVID were pretty tyrannical and hurtful.
- [43:37]
B
Oh, I don't think I've still recovered quite from the magnitude of what was going on. The magnitude of people ratting on each other, the magnitude of people telling on each other, the magnitude of still to this day, people aren't leaving the house. I mean, it became such a long period of time for so many years that it almost kind of reprogrammed people's thinking a little bit. Where I had someone the other day say, pastor, it's been, you know, several years since then. I don't think I'm ready to go to church yet. I go, at some point, you gotta take a leap of faith, brother. You know, it's time to go. And so that crippling mindset is gonna take decades to overcome, you know, the whole thing. And we just went and we decided, we're gonna feed. We're love, we're gonna serve people. And took that aggressive response and never looked back. And we found a lot of support from people, you know, in the departments that wanted something good to go on. But what was interesting is every night during the briefings, when he would speak, he would say things like, well, because of COVID we can do this because of COVID we can go forward on energy policy because of COVID And you begin to watch every night, and you realize that this was a great way to acquire a lot of things, maybe acquire properties that couldn't sustain it anymore. We had people coming around our building. We bought it for 3.9 million. The Catholic Church sold our building in 1996 for 3.9 million people showing up, you know, making offers on the building. We'll give you $200 million for 180 million in the most beautiful asset on the Hollywood freeways are building 400,000 square feet. And we'd say, not for sale. How about 200 million? Not for sale. The call of God is not for sale, man. We're going to fight. As long as we got fists, we're going to bite. As long as we got teeth, we're going to gum the devil if we have to, you know, and so we're Just going to stay. And then people just couldn't understand that because everything around us was being shut down. I mean, just 30, 40% of the businesses gone. 40% of the churches in LA couldn't make it because they didn't have buildings, they had rent facilities. And that was a whole nother story. So it's something that people will never understand who live outside of la. What it was like go to a restaurant and people showing their IDs and their badges and people would make. Make badges, fake ones in order to get ready. It was just such a crippling time in our city.
- [46:03]
A
Yeah. Before we started recording, you were talking about looking to the example of Nehemiah. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
- [46:11]
B
Yeah, you know, I kind of feel like Kevin Costner and Yellowstone sometimes fighting for your property. But. But a better example of that, it really is Nehemiah. You know, the Bible says he came to seek after the welfare of the people. He had a call for a place that was really broken to be rebuilt. And when he started rebuilding the wall, you know, he kept a little sword by him and he said, my primary objective here is to build, build, build. I'm rebuilding this wall. I got a project to do. I'm going to keep doing it, but if you get too close, I got the sword, you know, and that's kind of what we feel here. It's like, you know, we're going to build and we're going to be nice and we're going to be nice and we're going to be nice and we're going to be nice until the time not to be nice. You know what I mean? And so it's just one of those things. We just have to always keep that near, you know. Now a new thing, they've come up with this. You have to come up with $25 million to retrofit your building for all buildings built from 1978 forward. I mean, back. Built out of a certain material, which is our building. So they're asking us to come up with $25 million in three years. No, it's not gonna happen. I'm not gonna pay it. Impossible. No, we're not. Nor would I want to spend $25 million. We could feed millions of people. So that's not gonna happen. I've already decided we're gonna win, that we're gonna fight till the end. But you have to have that mindset. Like my natural instinct is an encourager. Encourager. We can do it, you know, build bridges. We've had Them all, come here, let's work. But it forces you to be a fighter. It forces you because you love the people you want to serve so much. You're like, no, this is not yours. This is what God gave us. When we face imminent domain, they want to take our building, to build a public school there. You know, that was another war we had to fight. So you have to have kindness and love, encouragement and a winning spirit. But you also sometimes have to show that side of you that you're willing to fight for what you love.
- [47:59]
A
Okay, there's a lot of people listening who are like, okay, I'm ready. I am riled up now. And maybe they don't live in la, they live in different cities across the country. And they're like, what is the first thing I should do to make sure I am effectively serving the vulnerable in my community?
- [48:16]
B
I think the most important thing is to find the passion, the thing that you love most, the people that are hurting the most, and just start putting yourself in uncomfortable positions, like maybe partner with somebody who goes to places that you have a heart for and just start having one on one encounters with people and overcome that barrier in your mindset that says, I'm not qualified, I don't understand all that stuff. It's just complete illusion. You know, oftentimes people from a different perspective will have bigger impact on somebody who has issues that they don't have. So it's like there's a lot of disqualifying factors in your mind that are dealing with someone like, I can't make a difference here, I can't do that. But if you have a passion for something, either partner with someone or get yourself a little group together and just go out and take on those areas, take on the homelessness in the park, start talking to people. Some of the best conversations I've ever had in my life were people who are really open to the gospel and open to talk. So I think first of all, you gotta get through the barriers of your head that says I'm not qualified. You are qualified and you're called and just show up and be ready for anything. Be ready in the areas of street ministry for people to tell you they love you and then five minutes later cuss you out. And they mean it both times, you know, but just realize that's a compliment. They finally have someone to talk to, you know, and so if you have a passion for hurting people, I would encourage you, you know, of course, to go in safety, find some people around you, you go as a group, but Just take it on, go for it, you know, take the first step. It's going to be uncomfortable. And get the mindset of not feeling qualified out or get behind somebody who's already doing it, you know, and because there's a lot of great warriors who have jobs and they work every single day, but they can provide fuel to the front lines of people as well. But just live active and live generous and. And live on the attack all the time.
- [50:21]
A
And for those who do live in the LA area, they want to get involved. What should they do?
- [50:26]
B
They should come to the Dream center pretty much anytime from 6am to 5pm every day. And there will be an outreach that will be going out. There'll be a food truck going out. There'll be meals in the kitchen to serve. There'll be all kinds of things. It's literally, we made it that easy. If you show up to the Dream Center 6am to 5pm and you mentioned this show, we have a volunteer sitting right outside to mobilize people on a daily basis and put them on a bus, a truck, we'll go to skid row, we'll talk to people. The good news is we've paved the way in a lot of these neighborhoods. So when you go back, you say you're from the Dream center, the. They love you. So it's. It's an easy integration into outreach. Really get started.
- [51:05]
A
That's amazing. Matthew, thank you so much for just answering God's calling on your life and for the amazing work that he does through you and the Dream Center. If you want to donate to the Dream center, how can they do that?
- [51:17]
B
Yeah, they could just go to dreamcenter.org and they could donate there and they can register somebody in their family who needs a free rehab program that they can do that as well and, and support the Dream Center.
- [51:29]
A
And what is one prayer that you hope people pray for the Dream center every day.
- [51:35]
B
That God would give us the ability to keep standing every single day, that he would give us supernatural endurance. That's all that we want. We want to see this thing all the way through the end. What's kept me there in LA all these years is when I started, I threw away every timetable of what I wanted to happen in five years, 10 years. And I just said, in all thy ways, acknowledge him and he will direct your path. And the moment I committed myself to the finish line is the moment the ministry really started to break out.
- [52:08]
A
Outlast everything.
- [52:09]
B
Outlast everything.
- [52:10]
A
Amen. Thank you so much.
- [52:12]
B
Thank you. Sa.