Ep 1219 | The Untold Story of In-N-Out’s Christian Roots | Lynsi Snyder

Summary

Podcast Summary: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey – Ep 1219 | The Untold Story of In-N-Out’s Christian Roots | Lynsi Snyder

Introduction

In Episode 1219 of Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey, hosted by Allie Beth Stuckey from the Blaze Podcast Network, listeners are introduced to Lindsay Snyder, the President of In-N-Out Burger. As the granddaughter of In-N-Out's founders, Lindsay shares her profound testimony, highlighting her dedication to serving God and integrating her Christian faith into the company’s operations. This episode delves into Lindsay's leadership journey, the company's expansion plans, and the enduring Christian values that underpin In-N-Out’s success.

Early Life and Family Legacy

Lindsay Snyder recounts her upbringing within the In-N-Out dynasty, emphasizing the close-knit, fun-loving family environment that shaped the company’s culture.

• Memories of Family Time: Lindsay recalls, “Some of my earliest memories being exposed to In-N-Out were in this office...my uncle was just this magical uncle, he had a larger than life personality and just seemed to make things happen” (03:21).

• Influence of Classic Cars: Growing up around her father and uncle’s passion for classic and American muscle cars fueled her own interest in drag racing and automotive culture (04:06).

Company Culture and Christian Values

Lindsay highlights how the joyous and adventurous personalities of her grandparents fostered a unique company culture where employees view their roles not just as jobs but as part of a family.

• Work Environment: “People that work at In-N-Out say it's not like a job. They say, I love what I do,” Lindsay explains (05:00).

• Integration of Faith: Since becoming president, Lindsay has incorporated Bible verses into packaging, reflecting her commitment to infusing Christian principles into everyday business practices (11:31). Notable verses include Proverbs 24:16 and Luke 6:35, which adorn items like fry boats and water cups.

Challenges and the Role of Faith

The episode delves into the personal and professional challenges Lindsay has faced, including family tragedies and personal struggles, and how her faith has been a cornerstone in overcoming these obstacles.

• Family Tragedies: Lindsay shares the profound impact of losing her uncle in 1993 and her father in 1999, describing it as a "night that changed our lives" and how these losses tested the company's resilience (20:51).

• Personal Struggles: Lindsay opens up about her tumultuous relationships and how these experiences led her to a deeper reliance on God. She narrates her journey from a state of emotional turmoil to finding solace and strength through faith (26:38).

Expansion Plans and Strategic Vision

Under Lindsay's leadership, In-N-Out Burger is poised for significant expansion beyond its traditional West and Central U.S. stronghold. She outlines the strategic decisions and divine guidance that are steering the company toward new horizons.

• Expansion to Franklin, Tennessee: Lindsay discusses the plans to establish a new office in Franklin, Tennessee, marking a pivotal step in the company’s growth strategy while maintaining adherence to the company's foundational values (50:02).

• Maintaining Legacy Amid Growth: Emphasizing balance, Lindsay states, “Number one priority is really keeping the company, the same company that my grandparents started as...we don’t want to be on every corner, we don’t want to be in every state and we don’t want to ever compromise our values” (55:48).

Personal Life and Leadership Insights

Lindsay shares insights from her personal life, including her marriage and motherhood, and provides valuable advice for business leaders aiming to inspire and engage their employees.

• Marriage and Family: Lindsay describes meeting her husband on a dating app after a difficult period, highlighting the importance of finding a partner who shares her faith and values (60:05). Their marriage, spanning over a decade with four children, stands as a testament to her belief in God's provision and grace.

• Leadership Philosophy: Offering advice to business leaders, Lindsay emphasizes the importance of building genuine connections with employees and consistently communicating the company’s vision. “The connection and that relationship and then just the repetition and sharing all the whys, the story and the why,” she advises (67:09).

Conclusion

Lindsay Snyder’s narrative is one of resilience, faith, and unwavering commitment to her family's legacy. By intertwining her Christian beliefs with business practices, she not only preserves In-N-Out Burger’s renowned culture but also paves the way for its continued growth and success. Her story serves as an inspiring example of how personal faith and professional dedication can coexist harmoniously, fostering a thriving and values-driven organization.

Notable Quotes

• On Company Culture: “It's a really special thing. And I think them having the personalities that they did helped create that atmosphere here where people can have fun working” (05:24).

• On Faith Integration: “God's love and God's mercy and grace and everything in my life that was starting to come out into...our workshops and the stuff we teach and train” (46:35).

• On Leadership Advice: “Build that connection to them...train them. And the training is the next piece” (67:09).

Final Thoughts

This episode of Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey offers a compelling look into how faith and family legacy shape the dynamics of one of America’s beloved fast-food chains. Lindsay Snyder’s candid storytelling and heartfelt insights provide both inspiration and practical wisdom for listeners navigating their own personal and professional journeys.

Transcript

[Ali Stuckey]

Lindsay Snyder is the president of In N Out. She is the granddaughter of the founders of the fast food chain. She has an incredible testimony and is so passionate about serving God and glorifying him in everything she and the company does. We are going to talk about her bravery as a leader of the company and what the company's plans are for expanding, expanding beyond the west and the central part of the United States. I think that you are going to love hearing what the Lord has done in her life and how the Lord is working through this amazing company. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com use code Ali at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code Ally. Okay, before we get into that conversation, just a reminder to my relatable audience, if you will please take part in this survey that we have put together to get to know you even better. To know what you want, what you're looking for, who you are, what your beliefs are. It just helps us tailor this show in a way that adds the most value possible to your lives. I'm very thankful for all of you and I want to continue making this show as good as it can possibly be. We will link the survey in the description of this episode, wherever you are watching or viewing. Thank you so much. All right, without further ado, here is our guest.

[Lindsay Snyder]

Lindsay. Thanks so much for joining me or for hosting me and your amazing office. This is incredible.

Well, thank you. Thank you for doing this.

Okay, can I first talk about your outfit, which I'm obsessed with?

[Ali Stuckey]

And I want to know if this is your.

[Lindsay Snyder]

Is this your daily work uniform?

Basically? I mean, I don't have a uniform uniform, but this is kind of my style, which I'd say doesn't stick to one. Yeah, but yeah.

Is it usually In N Out themed?

No, no. I did that for you.

Oh, you did that for me. I'm honored because I don't know if everyone can see that you have hamburgers on your socks. And are these specific In n Out hamburgers? Yes. Not just any, like, generic hamburger. Oh, I love that so much.

[Ali Stuckey]

Okay.

[Lindsay Snyder]

There are so many things that I want to ask you and so many people listening, watching, already know a lot about your story. Some people don' at all. So take us back to the beginning. What was it like growing up in this dynasty, in this business of in n out?

Well, you know, some of my earliest memories being exposed in and out were in this office. This was my uncle's office. And, you know, for me, he was just this magical uncle, he had a larger than life personality and just seemed to make things happen. And we always had fun together. And my dad was. The two of them were both just like big kids. You could tell there were things from their childhood that they didn't have. And so they were trying to still make some of those childhood dreams come true. And they lived through me by giving me some of those things and spoiling me.

Do you remember anything spoiling specifically? Like any kind of adventure or treat?

Yeah, my uncle took me to Disneyland a lot and he loved that. He was like a big kid and they would buy me like something with wheels or a motor just about every Christmas. And they were both like there. They couldn't wait to give it to me. So when I saw the old family videos, they were just like, what do you think?

You know, it's like they were getting the gift themselves.

Yes, yes. So, okay, do you think that is.

Why did that lay the groundwork? Because you, you like drag racing, right? So is that the beginning of that, do you think? The gifts that they got you?

Early on, my dad drag race. So I was there at the track as a little girl and, you know, just thought it was super cool and loved watching him and just being around all of that. The culture of the cars. So. So yeah, I think, you know, they both my uncle and my dad loved classic cars and American muscle cars. So that was just something I was raised around and grew very fond of. But for me, you know, as a kid, I didn't really understand the magnitude of, you know, the business or anything like that. And of course we were much smaller then, but still it was just the people for me, you know, and there's people that still work for In N Out, you know, today that were around when I was a kid. And so it is like a big family.

Yeah, yeah.

But I.

How did that, like, you say that they're fun loving, that they were basically like big kids. How did that shape the culture at In N Out when they were leading the way? Because obviously they were very smart businessmen as well, very serious about the business. But then they had this super adventurous, fun loving side. So what did that look like at the company?

I think, you know, a lot of people that work in and out say it's not like a job. They say, I love what I do. I have fun with the people that I'm with. And, you know, some of my fondest memories were the days I worked in the stores with people because it was just like this team. It was like, okay, we're going to do this, so there's a rush. We're going to do this together. And you're smiling and you're just. I don't know, it was. It's a really special thing. And I think them having the personalities that they did helped create that atmosphere here where people are, you know, you can have fun working. And, you know, we say that the smile is part of your uniform here at In N Out. So, you know, we know with psychology, you know, the power of a smile in a room, it's contagious. So.

Yeah. And you mentioned a lot of the things that they wanted to give you and fill your life with, they didn't really have growing up. So what was their upbringing like? Obviously their parents founded In N Out, but it was very different when it was first starting, I'm sure.

Yeah, yeah. They were poor, for sure. And you know, my grandpa came from very humble beginnings and his father couldn't keep a job. He was moving from one job to another. And, you know, I think he really projected that you're not going to amount to anything type of you on my grandfather. And my grandfather really, you know, broke through that.

Yeah.

So his success wasn't just founding In N Out, but really breaking that cycle. And, you know, he was severely abused by his father. And then my grandpa even abused my dad and my uncle. I don't think it wasn't at the same level, but it was definitely child abuse. So, you know, it's just tough. I think, you know, my dad and my uncle were maybe neglected a little bit. They loved their dad, they looked up to him, but he was a workaholic. You know, he was doing this, you know, the work, laying all the foundation for where we are now here at In N Out. And you know, my grandmother was very sweet and soft spoken and she had her faith, but, you know, I think they, they loved her to pieces and I think they wanted my dad, really wanted his dad's acceptance and he, I don't think he ever felt that. So the combination of them not having things, having a dad, that was, you know, pretty hard on them and all that, you know, I think they, they loved having that healthy family life when I was born and. Yeah. And having my mom and my uncle didn't have any kids, so I was basically like his.

Yeah, yeah.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

I've got my family Hooked on it as well.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

Were you ever intimidated by the prospect of leading the company even though you'd been around it forever? I mean, it's huge.

I don't think I was intimidated because it was because the process, you know, I was working for the company when I was 17. Yeah, I was down here. I moved down here when I was 18, worked for my grandma actually doing donations. And I would call to ask for donations for, you know, one of our events. And so there was just a very natural development of then I managed the company store with all of our merchandise for a couple of years. And that was great. That was like a little business within the big business. And then started going to the operation meetings, VP meetings was helping make big decisions. So it was very gradual. So I'd say the moments where I felt like I had to really speak up or, you know, push to be heard would be in the VP meetings back in the day. And that's something where they spun that in an interview. And I was so upset because they used it in the wrong context. But the context was I was a young girl.

Yeah.

Sitting in a room with older business, corporate looking men.

Yeah.

So I did not really fit in that room in a lot of ways. And so when I had a disagreement with them, which was usually about raising prices. Yes. I would get a little feisty. And so, yeah, you know, I guess it paid off.

I guess the feistiness worked out though.

Yeah.

Okay. So you have added two Bible verses to the packaging since you have been president. Right.

There's actually more.

Okay.

So we added it to the bottom of the fry boat. The water cup, the coffee, the hot cocoa.

And they're all different. Yeah, right. We. I know. Proverbs 24:16, Luke 6:35. Do you know off the top of your head what the other ones are? I don't have them written down.

The water cup is. I'm trying to think of the reference. It's the one about giving a cup to even one of these, you know.

Yeah.

The hot cocoa is John 13:34. Love one. Another coffee cups is Luke 6:35, one of my favorites about loving your enemies. Oh, and then our holiday beverage cups. So that's the little Christmas looking cups. Isaiah 9:6 about Jesus being born, the prophecy. And then our other little water cups are. Isaiah 53, prophecy of Jesus again. Yeah. So we added a handful. And there's some products, there's some other things that we added them to. We just kind of snuck them in there.

Have you ever had people, like, upset by the Bible verses?

Oh, sure.

Really?

[Ali Stuckey]

What did they say?

[Lindsay Snyder]

Like random customers or media or Who.

Honestly, I don't pay attention to too much of it. I think it's just been, you know, we even had customers upset about our slave to nothing stuff, you know, like having the, the cans or some of the imagery. They're like, I'm coming for a burger. I don't want to hear about it.

That's your foundation, right? Yes. And that has to do with addiction and helping people who have been stuck in that.

Both addiction and human trafficking.

Okay, Right.

Yeah.

And I wonder why. Why would anyone have any kind of issue with that?

Well, it is interesting, but I think, you know, if someone's. The Bible verse is something that is, you know, meaningful to my family and our faith. And my uncle was like, this is a declaration, like, we're a family business and this is just part of us, you know, and, you know, no one's being forced to, you know, hey, now you have to follow the Ten Commandments and then you can have a burger. It's not, you know. Yeah, it's not like that. So I think that a lot of times there's going to be persecution and that's okay because it's expected. You know, it's laid out in our instruction manual that, you know, it's actually a good sign if you're persecuted. So, you know, people not wanting to hear about fighting addiction or trafficking, you just have to look what's behind it. Yeah, there's a battle.

Totally. I love the Verse, I think it's in Luke 6 where it says woe to you when all people speak well of you. And we all get caught in that. I get caught in that. I want everyone to speak well of me. But Jesus actually says, no, that's bad. Woe to you when everyone has something nice to say to you all of the time or about you all the time. That's like such a comfort to me. On the other hand, on the other side of that, have you heard any stories of people who have seen the Bible verse, looked it up and then started reading the Bible or changed their mind about something or have just been encouraged by it?

I've heard a few. Yeah, I've heard a few. And I've heard mainly it was like a launching point for a really nice discussion where someone was wanting to witness to someone or wanting to share their faith and different things in that conversation. And they were able to use that. They took them in and out, were able to use that as like the opener.

I love that. And I mean, you're never going to know until you get to heaven. You know, all of the lives that were touched by the word of God. And I just love that the word of God doesn't return void. So the most effective thing that we can always do is share a Bible verse because it's the only infallible, inerrant thing that we can tell someone. So you just have no idea, you have no idea like how many people it's affected. I'm sharing and for like those of us who are Christians seeing something like that, it's like, I don't know, it just feels like solidarity. Like we want to come back and support it. I want to hear more about your grandmother, about Esther. She stayed involved in the day to day operations until she died in 2006, I think. So. What an amazing legacy and an amazing person. And all around this office you see pictures of her rooms dedicated to her. So I just want to hear more about her.

Yeah, she was precious. She was from Illinois and had one Irish parent and one English. And she actually had a pretty tough story too. She had quite a few siblings and she was sick as a child and they were worried about her getting the other kids sick. So they took her to her grandparents and they basically never came back for wow. Like she ended up staying with her grandparents and being raised by them. But her grandma was like legally blind so she had to like push her everywhere and help take care of her.

And I'm sure wondering like, why did my parents not choose me and you know, all my other siblings are together. Yeah, that's hard.

So she. I think there was a lot of like, almost like self denial and just kind of survive on my own strength that she had. So she put herself through college. You know, she joined the waves in the Navy and she was a go getter for sure. And she was tiny. She was really, really small.

Yeah.

And there's not too many people that make me feel tall in this world. And she was one of them because she was shorter than me.

Yes. My grandmother was the same way. And she seemed to get smaller and smaller every time I saw her. I think by the time she died she was like 411 or something like that. So. Yeah, she always was like, it's so. I mean, just so sweet. So much like personality. I love when so much personality is packed into like.

Yeah.

Such a small package. And so much strength too.

Yeah. And she was, you know, a lot of the. The brains behind, you know, the, the operation of, you know, just the book, all the book stuff, the financial stuff.

Did she just teach herself that was it just through experience that she learned everything.

She went to college, so she had pretty good education. Yeah. You know, she wanted to be a teacher. She did. She did. Teaching. She. It was fascinating when I found out she studied zoology.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, that makes so much sense because my daughter and I both love animals.

Yeah.

Love animals.

[Ali Stuckey]

So she kind of came from you.

[Lindsay Snyder]

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. The Bible verses on the packaging, when did that start?

There's been a lot of debate about this, so we've gone back and forth. We believe it was somewhere around 88. Yeah, it was just a few years before my uncle passed away, actually. He. He did that. And that was just a thing of, you know, he totally found Jesus and.

Yeah.

Just wanted to have that there. Yeah.

I want to hear more about that before we get into your faith journey, because you mentioned that your grandfather maybe didn't have as much like of an outspoken faith, but your grandmother did.

Yeah.

And then you just mentioned your uncle. So where did that come from? How did you see that start showing up?

Yeah, my grandpa. I don't really know what his parents were like exactly. They did come from the Netherlands and I'm assuming that he grew up in a house without any faith. He did accept the Lord on his deathbed, thank God.

Wow.

My grandma was raised in the church and she had her faith and yeah, I think that was a lot of her strength and she just had so much love and care for people that I think came from God's love. You know, my dad, he really found that, I think, in marrying my mom. Of course, he had his mother that modeled it, too. But I think when he met my mom, it just kind of brought it together for him. And then my uncle, I don't remember how exactly he got connected, but he started going to Chuck Smith's church in Costa Mesa, and that was where he just really dedicated his life to the Lord. And so, yeah, they all look a little bit different, but I'm happy to know that they all knew Jesus.

Yes. And I'm sure it was a very formative time in your life. And you've written about this when your uncle passed. Correct. And that was in the 90s.

93. Yeah.

And I'm sure you have memories of that. You were still a child at that point, right?

I was 11. Yeah.

And can you talk about just the effect that that had both on your family and on the company?

Yeah, you know, it's. It's really a night that changed our lives. I remember exactly what I was doing. I remember that whole evening, really. And for my dad, you know, I look back and see just how terrible it was. You know, he already didn't have. He never got the acceptance from his dad. So he had this childhood pain and trauma then as adult, not having that from his dad. And then his brother was really the only one that knew what it was like, you know, and they weren't on the best terms. So losing him, I think, just felt like a part of his heart got ripped out.

Yeah, of course.

So I remember my dad going outside and just yelling his brother's name, like, to the sky. And. Yeah, you know, my dad had been sober and things were pretty, pretty nice. We were living up in Northern California, and that was just the beginning of things starting to fall apart between, you know, his sobriety, my mom and dad, and my stability, I guess.

Right, right. And your dad passed in the late 90s.

Yeah. 99.

And not only did you persevere through all of that because so much to happen at such a young age, so close together, but also in and out persisted through all of that. So before we get to the time, because you've talked about, like, I think you called it your black sheep era. So we can talk about the instability that you just referenced, but can you walk us through, like, how did your family carry in and out through such a turbulent time of not even knowing, kind of, like, what the leadership and direction looks like anymore?

Yeah, it's. It is pretty crazy because in n out has weathered A lot of so much. Yeah. And then there's. Yeah. I mean, beating the odds of the third generation thing, you know, is big too. So it's just, to me it's very clear the hand of God is on this company.

Is that something that people say like by the time you get to the third generation, it's just not likely for it to persist after that?

Yes, yes.

Because they assume like the grandkids just don't feel as connected to the founding.

Mission and okay, there's probably several factors, but I mean, I think you can look, look it up and find that it's an overwhelming statistic that it falls short by that time. So, yeah, we have amazing people here. You know, we've had incredible leaders and again, the tenure is just, you know, you don't see a lot of places that have so many people stick around for so long. So that's why we, we say it's an in and out family. Because, you know, once you're here, a lot of times you're, you're staying till the end. So it's just been a combination of God having his hand on our company and protecting it and guiding it and also the incredible people that have just come together and rallied and, you know, stepped in when these different, you know, tragedies happened. So.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

The energy is going to be amazing.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

I want to hear about this season for you personally because you've written very openly about your past relationships and the difficult time that you went through before you were 35 and you started kind of running the show here. So I want to hear like your personal faith journey from the dark times to the times that things started falling into place.

Oh, boy.

I know. Big question.

Well, how far, how far back?

Let's go back to after your dad passed.

Okay. After my dad passed, I was, you know, in a relationship that started when I was 14.

Wow.

And I was 17 at the time when my dad died. And so I. I really knew. Like, I felt like God told me, like, this is not right. Like, and I just.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll deal with that later.

Like, right.

You know, be fine. And it was something that I think I would have. I think I would have called off our engagement had my dad not died. And as soon as he died, it was like I just latched. I latched on, you know, And I'd say that relationship looked pretty codependent.

[Ali Stuckey]

Mm.

[Lindsay Snyder]

And you know, it wasn't super healthy. And then he started having all sorts of kind of just breakdowns and he went on like medication and was sharing that he was having, you know, just. It. It's pretty. I mean, how honest do you want me to be on here?

Some of that's kind of graphic. It depends. It's totally up to you, whatever you're comfortable with. Because, you know, other people have gone through or will go through similar things. And so I think they appreciate the honesty.

Yeah, he started having panic attacks and everything because of the guilt and started admitting little by little, oh, yeah, I'm Addicted to porn.

Yeah.

And, you know, I've done this thinking about your. This person, that person, that person. And I'm just like, oh, gosh.

And you're like, what, 18, 19 at this point? How do you even process? And now you're married, so you feel like, oh, my goodness, what have I done?

Well, it's like, you know, at that point when I told God, like, oh, well, I'm doing it anyway. I'm marrying him. It's like I put all my eggs in that basket. And so when he told me those things, it's like all of my eggs just broke and the basket thrown, you know, because, you know, I really loved him, and my heart was just shattered. And so at that point, you know, it was just, I don't know, trying to make sense of it all and at the same time thinking this whole relationship was a sham, you know, if all of this was happening, you know, and I was, you know, doing all these things that he would want, so why. Why would he do this? You know? And. And I didn't understand, you know, the pornography addiction at that stage in my life, you know, to know that it wasn't me that was the problem, it was him.

Yeah.

So. So that was really tough. And then from there, you know, I basically broke his heart by intentionally cheating on him.

Yeah.

And I felt like the only way he would let go of me was if I made him mad and hate me. So I went down that road. Which is where you referenced my black sheep era. That was where I just embraced it. Like, I'm just, this is how I'm gonna have to do this. And it felt.

Do you think that you were trying to numb your pain from losing your uncle and your dad? I mean, it could have been multiple things, but I imagine at such a young age, like, trying to process that and cope with it was probably tough.

I think it's very deep. I mean, we know daddy issues. We understand how that can carry into someone's life for. I mean, until the day they die. Honestly, some can. You know, they can have those issues and they can come out unless they get that healing and recognize it. But for me, my dad and my uncle, like, thought the world of me. You know, they loved me, they loved spending time with me. And so all I wanted was to have someone that cherished me like them, you know, and wants to protect me and keep me safe. And so when he, you know, broke my heart in that way, I think I just felt like I didn't have any of that love anywhere because I'D basically drifted from God a little bit by pursuing, you know, marrying him outside of maybe what God wanted for me. So, yeah. Yeah, that was tough. And then, of course, you know, I went into the other relationship, which is one that, you know, I can't go back and forth and say, I regret it because I have two beautiful children. I have twins.

Yeah. So your first. Your first kids were twins? Boy and a girl. I bet that was an amazing moment when you got that first sonogram and.

You were like, excuse me, I almost passed out. Yeah.

Like, it's one thing when it's like, your second or third pregnancy. I just can't imagine for your first. You're like, excuse me.

Yeah, I was. I was doing all right. I went to the appointment alone. Cause I'm like, hey, it's just the first one. It's cool. It'll be good. And when she said, oh, no wonder you're so sick. I'm like, okay. She's saying that with happiness in her voice, so it can't. It can't be bad.

Yeah.

She's like, you're having twins. I'm like, what?

Oh, my goodness.

I had, like, immediate wave of heat over my body.

Yes.

And they'd offered me crackers and water earlier, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm good. I'm like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll take the crackers and water. I almost passed out, so, yeah, that was wild. You know, I called my mom. I'm like, mom, why do I always have the hard way? I have everything the hard way. You know, most people go like, twins. That's amazing. What a blessing. But pregnancy was not easy. You know, I was horribly sick the whole entire time.

The whole time.

I was £180 the day I had them.

Wow. And you're, like, very petite.

Five, three and a half.

Yes.

Yeah. So it was a lot to carry around.

That's a lot to carry around. Okay. This is. I mean, you. This might be, like, a weird question to you, but we talk about, like, birth and stuff on this podcast. Did you have a C section?

I did.

Okay.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to, but they were breech transverse for a.

Whole month before, which is also, like, very uncomfortable. Yes. Physically, very uncomfortable.

I think that's why my ribs are, like, offset now, probably.

I've never had twins. I have three kids, and even my ribs are, like, messed up probably forever.

Yeah.

So I imagine. Yes. Okay. So had your twin babies. How old are they now?

18.

Oh, my goodness. No way.

Just graduated yeah.

Okay. Has it gone by like that?

Yes and no.

Yeah.

No, because there's so many seasons, so many things packed in there. So on one, on one hand it seems long. And then I can also remember the day they were born. Like that, you know.

Yeah. And going from zero babies to two babies when it came to sleeping and feeding and all of that stuff. I mean, if you can remember back, what was that like?

Well, there wasn't a lot of sleep. Good thing was he was, you know, their dad was hands on at the time and was, you know, helpful. And then people told me about the night nursing. Oh, she can come in and you can have someone help out. I'm like, really?

Yeah. I think I would do that if I had twins. Just someone to give me a little relief.

Yes, yes.

Because he got to sleep to be sane.

I read a book about getting them on a schedule and all that. So I'm really glad I did that because I see some people just struggle to have sanity with, with that, you know, with twins, because one's awake, one's asleep, one's, you know, they're back and forth. So I did get that going, which was helpful.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

I think I remember reading in your book and something that you've written that it was kind of in your third, it was in your third marriage in the midst of a Lot of turmoil. There was just constant conflict. You talked about between you and your husband at the time when you find. When you really felt like, okay, God, I. I need you. I need you to help me. Can you talk about that?

Yeah, well, you know, you can see where I'm, like, trying to fill that void.

Yeah.

With these marriages and in. And it was really, like, couldn't be alone. So this one didn't work. Latched onto this. This one, you know, this one didn't work. Latched onto this one. So I tell people, broken people. Pick broken people. And I think that, you know, these weren't necessarily relationships that God had ordained and said, okay, you two should be together. But out of my pain and not wanting to be alone and really searching for that person that was going to love and protect me, like my dad and my uncle was, you know, was a quest. And I was very unsuccessful. And so that relationship, you know, was. It was very tough. I, you know, was not okay with sex outside of marriage. And so I slipped and one time got pregnant. And so my third child was basically, you know, born in a tough. It was a tough situation. And I wanted to marry and thought, this is the right thing to do. And so, yeah, there was. There was a lot there were going into. You know, had I not got pregnant, we probably wouldn't have stayed together. But that was the darkest time of my life for sure. And really finding out, like, hey, you're just not gonna get this from a person. That love you want, that being cherished, it's not gonna happen. And I just really turned to God and said, God, you're the only one. You're the only one that I can truly trust. And I have to be okay with not having this from a person. I need to, like, I want to be okay alone because in this marriage right now, I feel alone. And. And he met me there. Yeah, he met me there for sure.

What did it look like coming out of that? And how old were you at this point?

Good question. Let's see. I was 2010.

This was before you took over. In N out.

It was about the same time, honestly. Yeah. So it was a lot at once.

Yeah.

2010 was. It was before. Okay. A lot of people externally say, okay, once you were 35, you officially. But that was just the semantics with the trust and all that. I mean, honestly, I became president in 2010.

Okay.

And same year, I'm going through divorce, get pregnant during that divorce, and then have my son in 2011.

Wow.

So. Oh, it was really hard. I mean, for Me to even show up to work and be who I'm supposed to be was tough. There were days that I just couldn't even come in because of the turmoil in the relationship.

Yeah.

And, you know, turning. Getting to that place where I finally, you know, even. Even though it wasn't a drug, it's like the term hit bottom. Like, I had hit a. A bottom where. Yeah, I just. Yeah, I went completely to God. And so I was. I feel like I was about 30 when that started to happen with me and God. And, you know, I really tried to stick it out. And, you know, I've heard you talk about toxic empathy, different contexts, but. Well, I think I was a little bit in denial that I'm an empath. And then I started to realize, well, you don't want to give up on people. You want to help people when they don't want help. You are more invested in, you know, the betterment of someone's life than them even seeking out or asking you for help. And so I'm like, yeah, I think I kind of. I kind of am. And I don't give up also. So I think there's some good in there somewhere.

But of course, it's not always. It's. I mean, empathy by itself isn't bad.

Right.

It's only when it leads you to affirm people's sin or validate lies. And, you know, all of us have kind of, like, been in those moments. It can be super, like, positively powerful and lead you toward healthy love. It can also lead us toward enabling people in an unhealthy way.

Yes. Well, I would say I definitely.

So.

I. I guess, you know, it was actually a pastor that helped me come to the realization that this was not. This was not God's will for you to be married like this. I'm like, wait, you've talked about how horrible divorce is. I've basically felt like, you know, that is not an option. And I've already been divorced more than once. Like, this is how much worse it's gonna get for me. I can't. How will I ever be able to be in a relationship again if I don't stick this one out and try? And I think it was just the infidelity and the lack of repentance and all of that. Finally took me to a place where the pastor said, hey, you don't have to stay in this. This person's not stopping. And so I filed. Told my attorney I wanted to file for separation, and we had separated physically. But when I called my attorney back to check on the status. He said, yeah, the divorce, blah, blah, blah. I was like, what? He told me that he'd filed for divorce. I'm like, I told you separation. And so it was really strange because you don't want to think, oh, did God actually do that? Was that the only way I was going to do it because he was saying, like, this is okay. But I was raised to know that God hates divorce. But then I also found in Proverbs where he also hates lying lips, those who rush into, you know, evil. Like, all of, you know, all those other things. It's like, okay, it's not just divorce. He hates a lot of other things that I was living in. And so, yeah, I. I don't know that I would have gone through with it had, you know, there not be some. There was some signs and some help for sure from others.

And what did kind of like coming into the light and healing and repenting for you look like 2010, really, really tough year. But obviously things got better. Both, I mean, and you leading the company, but also you personally. So tell us what that looked like.

Yeah, there was a lot of guilt. And like you said, like, me repenting. So I had already repented by that time. But because of the guilt I had from the other divorces and just the things that I had done, I felt like I had. I think that's part of why I felt like I had to stick it out and it was okay for me to be cheated on because of, you know, maybe I deserved it, you know, so there was a lot of really unhealthy stuff in my mind, and I felt like I had to kind of work my way back to God, which is not the way it goes. You know, his grace is sufficient and he can have us back in an instant. But I wasn't accepting that for myself. It's like, even though he had it there, it took me a while to actually accept that I was forgiven and that I could forgive myself and all of that. So when I did that and that season with God, that was so sweet. While I was single, really, for the first time in my life. And you think, oh, you'd be lonely and it'd be so tough after everything you've gone through. But it was honestly one of the best seasons of my life. Like, I felt so close to him and finally realized that I didn't need a person to feel whole. I could be whole with him, with God. And so it was great. And I think that's when leadership, it in and out really started to flourish because it was, again, it was God's love and God's mercy and grace and everything in my life that was starting to come out into, you know, our workshops and the stuff we teach and train.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

I remember a few years ago, of course, I had already been an In N out fan, but a few years ago, I saw that In N out around San Francisco refused to, like, check was it vaccine status. California at the time said, in order to go into a restaurant, you have to show your vaccine card. Which is insane to say, to think about. And the in and out locations were like, no. And even the head of legal here was like, we're not doing that.

Yeah, right, right, yeah.

So tell me what went into that decision?

Well, there were so many pressures and just hoops we were having to jump through. You know, you've got to do this. They have to wear a mask. You have to put this plastic thing up between us and our customers. And it was really terrible, you know, And I look back and I'm like, man, maybe we should have just pushed even harder on some of that stuff and dealt with all the legal backlash. But that was definitely where we held the line, like, we're not policing our customers. I mean, I think of my uncle saying, we're not gonna serve something. We're not gonna serve them something that we wouldn't eat, or we wanna give them the best. And it's like, I wouldn't do that to Anyone. And, you know, I don't want this and I don't expect them to want it. So. Yeah.

And did you have backlash from the state of California.

Over that? Honestly, we. Yeah. Yes. We were shut down. Shut down for a brief moment. But it's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it. I think there's a lot of people that were charged by that move. So it's good.

Yeah, absolutely.

We can be closed down for a couple days and feel good about it.

Yeah. Fought through it. Okay. So state of California, crazy in some ways, beautiful in a lot of ways, crazy in other ways, policy wise. I know that y' all have felt that and y' all have talked about opening up shop in Franklin, Tennessee. Right. So tell me, kind of like what that move, what that expansion means for the country. Or not for the country. Maybe the country, but specifically for the company.

Yeah. So going back a little further, my uncle opened the office in Irvine that we have. So Baldwin park and then Irvine opened in the 90s when my dad came down to run the business because he had moved us away, we moved to Northern California. It was family over fighting with his brother and running company. So he came down and saw Irvine and all of that and was just like, this is not us. This is not our roots. This is not my dad. And he wanted to move everyone back to Baldwin park. So kind of did a hybrid. He moved a lot of people back to Baldwin park. But Irvine continued on and continued to grow. And then, you know, my dad died a handful of years later, so he never got to bring everyone back here and close Irvine. So Irvine now, you know, we went from having a couple floors to nearly the whole building. You know, so my vision for a long time has been to have, you know, these two offices under one roof. And so that's basically what's going to happen. We're building an office in Franklin. So I'm actually moving out there and hanging out.

How do you feel about that? You're like a California girl through and through, right?

Yeah. I mean, I really loved living in Northern California and I'm so thankful that I grew up there because I think it changed a lot of who I am today. I think I would be different if I was raised in Southern California. But like you said, there's a lot of great things about California, but raising a family is not easy here. Doing business is not easy here. No. The bulk of our stores are still going to be here in California, but it will be wonderful having an office out there, growing out there totally and being able to have the family and other people's families out there. And so in that it's two part, we'll have everybody under one roof here in Baldwin park and we'll close our. Fine.

Okay. That's a big transition. And that's happening in the next few years, right?

Yeah, we've kind of given it a longer Runway so that it's smoother for everybody so they can plan and all of that. And we gave them a lot of notice because we love them and want to make it as easy as possible. But yeah, by 2030, we'll close their vine office.

Okay, so at one point you said that within your lifetime, like, if you draw lines from Texas, everything to the left, like, you want in and out there, but not maybe to the right of the line. And you talked about just like the importance of the kind of like, novelty of in and out. Like that you liked when someone comes into town where there's an in and out, they're like, I gotta go there. Which is totally true. That's what people do, by the way. I'm guessing, though, since you're going to be to the right of that line, that you're probably going to be opening up in and outs there. So what does the strategy look like? Has it changed?

Well, it's funny, I think Kidrock, his name is Bob, I think he's the one that actually drew the new map. And he put the line up from Texas, grabbed Tennessee, went around Tennessee and back up. I'm like, yeah, that's how you're.

There you go.

So I think for me, it's the same heart. It's just, I guess I would say a man plans his ways and God's God takes his steps, you know, so we had had a plan and then he snuck that in there. And I think, you know, Florida has begged us. And we're still saying no. You know, the east coast states, we're still saying no. You know, we're able to reach Tennessee from our Texas warehouse. So we're not putting our whole meat facility where we do all of our own beef and send it to our stores, make patties. We're not gonna have that there. We'll have a warehouse, but not do our own meat there. So we'll be able to deliver from Texas. So Texas can reach some other states, you know, so, you know.

Yeah, okay. Most companies are thinking, how can we expand to as many places as possible.

[Ali Stuckey]

As fast as possible?

[Lindsay Snyder]

That's not your number one priority, clearly. So what is your number one priority?

Number one priority. Is really keeping the company, the same company that my grandparents started as. You know, I want the legacy to continue and we're doing that. But we're growing and we're so much bigger than we were when they started it. So growth is healthy and we have to have that growth. And so it's really having that balance of, okay, we have all of these amazing people coming up through management. They want to have a store one day. So we have to have some growth. But we also don't want to be on every corner, we don't want to be in every state and we don't want to ever compromise our values and standards and the cornerstones that my, that my grandparents laid down, you know, so. So it's really just, you know, keeping those priorities at the forefront when we make decisions.

Yeah. You're also not interested in adding a bunch of variety to your menu. I mean, I'm guessing that's how you are able to keep all of the production under your own house, is that your menu is simple and it's going to stay simple, right?

Yep.

That's your priority, to keep it that way. Why do you think that you are one of the very few, like third generation leaders of a company that really, really does care so much about what your grandparents wanted. I know that you've been offered a lot of money for in n out. Like you've mentioned princes giving offers and things like that. And you've said absolutely not interested. So what is it?

You know, I think part of it is, I mean, one God, just God, you know, but for me personally, what motivates me, I guess humility. I don't deserve anything. And so I want to serve. I want to serve God by honoring what my family started. I want to make it something that he's proud of. I want, you know, as I'm trying to hold true to what they want, I also see that there were some things that needed to be better. And what would God want, you know, what would he want here? And how can we make these things fit God's priorities in the way he would lead people and love people, care for them and teach them. And so those things I guess just hold. Holding true to, you know, my stewardship, it's like I'm. I've been given this responsibility so I don't one, I don't deserve anything I have. So I want to just honor him, glorify him, thank him by keeping it the way it's supposed to.

Last.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

They learned that somewhere and they learned.

[Ali Stuckey]

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[Lindsay Snyder]

You are married and you have four babies. Now tell me how you met your husband.

Oh, well, this one's kind of funny. We met on a dating app.

Oh, you did?

Yes.

Okay. You came out of, like, really difficult time and then you decided, okay, like, I'm ready.

Yeah. And I honestly thought, okay, I'm on here. But the likelihood of me finding the right person, you know, I wanted the anonymity where they didn't know who I was. So I'm like, okay, I might have to just use a different name on here for now. And then, you know, if something develops, I'll tell them.

Yeah.

But I thought, to be honest, that after everything I went through, and this is, you know, I wasn't living in guilt, but it's probably just those kind of guilt type thoughts where you're going to have to work your way back to even have a relationship with someone and have a marriage, you know, will I even be blessed with having a marriage? You know, so just God, showing off, you know, it wasn't long and he brought me someone that totally loves me for Who I am, cherishes me, tries to protect me, loves my kids. You know, I came with some baggage and, you know, loved my three children, still loves them, and, you know, ended up having another that I swore I wasn't gonna have.

Yeah. And how old's your youngest?

10.

10? Yeah. Okay.

Wow. Yeah. So we've been married almost 11 years and it's just, it's been a huge blessing. And, you know, so many things were different about that relationship when it started. We decided to pray for each other the first time we spoke. You know, what can I pray for for you? Here's what you could pay for for me. Covered all of the controversial topics. First conversation, like, let's just get this out.

Exactly. Get him out of the way for sure.

Like, where are the red flags? Let's see if I can bring some up.

Yeah. Might as well just knock it out.

Yeah. So, yeah. And, you know, something I felt with him and. And he felt the same as I'm like, I've never been with someone that made me love God more. You know, when you meet someone like that after everything you've been through, again, feeling undeserving. Just feeling God's grace and going like, wow, you must really love me to give me this after everything I've screwed up.

Yeah. That's amazing. You've talked about this idea of God not being like a plug in in your life, but being plugged into God. Can you talk about the difference between those two things?

Yeah, I think that's. I didn't really think about it before, but it's almost what separates lukewarm Christianity from the real thing. And it's, you know, people will talk about, you know, you have all of these different things in your life. You have work, you have family, you have God and all the other things plugged into this like, power strip. And the way I say is the healthy, the right way is God is the power strip. He is your life. And then you plug all those other things into it. And it's also a good indicator if something shouldn't be plugged in because if it doesn't fit with him, then he'll. They can't go together.

So true. I love that analogy. I just read this Fox News headline that was about In N out and it was about the happiness of your employees and the satisfaction of the people that work here. Not just the people who have been here forever, but we're talking about the people that we all interact with, you know, at the cash register. Those. It was like something crazy, like 91% of employees said that they would recommend their job to someone else, which is like, kind of an insane number. So what is the difference maker? How do you make sure that you have happy employees?

Well, you know, it's a priority for us to take care of them, you know, And I say we're family. They really are like my family. And I feel responsible for them. You know, I feel like having the stewardship. I feel like I'm being entrusted, and I feel a very heavy weight of responsibility to do my best. And I want to take care of them. I want to love them. I want them to feel God's love. And, you know, kind of walking in that humility and sharing things and being open and letting them into my life, it just changes the atmosphere, you know? So I think that we have something very special, something tangible that is just not necessarily in all businesses, you know, So I do believe that God's love can be felt in this company. And some people can't really figure out what they feel or what it is that's so special. But I can't tell you how many times it's been confirmed. I'm going to butcher it, not say it right. But the Hebrew word yod or yod, it's like the 10th letter in their Alphabet, and it means hand of God. And it was literally on the wall at one of our anniversary dinners. The invitation design was like a kind of an old English font. And the I, like the dot on the I was that Hebrew character. And it wasn't intentionally placed. It was just the way. And I saw it, and I was like, I feel like that's Hebrew. I looked it up, and when I saw that it was hand of God, I'm like, wow. I'm like, the writing is on the wall, and it's the I. I am. And so I was just tripping because, like, that's just exactly what we have here, is the hand of God on this company. And that's why we've weathered all these storms, these tragedies, and my. My life and even coming into my leadership and everything I went through. He's. Romans 8, 28. He's. He's worked it out.

All things.

[Ali Stuckey]

Yes.

[Lindsay Snyder]

Okay, last thing. Advice that you can give any business leader, whether they have three employees, whether they have 3,000 employees. Here's my specific question. What advice would you give them to help them get their employees to catch on to their vision? I think that can be a difficult thing as a leader. You have a vision. You have these people. You want everyone to be as enthusiastic about your vision as you are, but some people just don't know how to.

[Ali Stuckey]

Bridge that gap, how to do that. What would your advice be?

[Lindsay Snyder]

I think there's two main things that come to mind. One is the connection to them. You have to build that connection to them. And for me, my road was a lot of transparency, a lot of sharing my own weaknesses and vulnerability. A lot of leaders do not want to be vulnerable. And I say go against the grain, just do it. It's worth it. There's risk involved, but that's okay. That's good. So that connection, because once they feel connected to you, then you have the buy in to train them. And the training is the next piece of you have a vision, you have a mission. You have to tell the same story over and over and over. And the why behind it. This is why we do this. This is why this is important to us. This is why we do it this way and not the way they do it.

Right?

So really the connection and that relationship and then just the repetition and sharing.

All the whys, the story and the why. I love that. Thank you so much. Super helpful, Lindsay. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. So encouraging. And thanks again for hosting us in your awesome office. We're excited for your next move. Excited that y' all are coming down south. It'll be good. Thank you.

Thank you. Mama, Papa.