Ep 1230 | From Gay Bars to God’s Grace: How He Left the Gay Lifestyle Behind | Arch Kennedy

Summary

Below is a detailed summary of Episode 1230 of “Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey” titled “From Gay Bars to God’s Grace: How He Left the Gay Lifestyle Behind | Arch Kennedy,” released on August 15, 2025.

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1. Episode Overview

• This episode features Arch Kennedy—a retired TV meteorologist turned faith writer—sharing his personal testimony of transformation from living a secretive gay lifestyle and battling alcoholism to finding renewal through the conviction of God’s Word.
• Host Allie Beth Stuckey guides the conversation, prompting Arch to recount his early upbringing, the challenges of living a double life, the heartache of coming out to family, and ultimately, his journey into Biblical study that led him toward a life of celibacy and hope in Christ.
• The discussion weaves personal history with theological insights, highlighting how God’s grace can transform even the most complicated life journeys.

────────────────────────────── 2. Guest Background and Early Life

• [00:01–02:50] Arch introduces himself and his background.
– Raised in a small-town environment near Atlanta with two older sisters and a father who worked as a pilot.
– Attended church regularly as a child in a conservative Christian home.
– Credits the strong spiritual foundation of his early life, though he would later veer off-course before returning to God.

• [01:23–02:27] Despite being raised in a typical Christian household (Southern Baptist/Presbyterian), Arch’s youthful experiences sowed the seed that would eventually bring him back to faith after years of rebellion.

────────────────────────────── 3. Discovering and Living the Gay Lifestyle

• [02:51–04:20] Arch discusses his early struggles with his sexuality: – Felt “different” during puberty in an environment where same-sex attraction was rarely discussed. – Experienced the inner turmoil of discovering his attraction toward men during his late teens. – Lived a double life starting in college; initially masking his inner conviction with heavy alcohol use.

• [04:45–06:38] Arch recalls his introduction to Atlanta’s gay community: – Unexpectedly discovered that respectable professionals—lawyers, doctors, etc.—were part of the gay community, challenging his early preconceptions. – Describes the nightlife as “like a kid in a candy store” even though he later critiques it as a “horrible lifestyle” governed by superficiality, sex, drugs, and alcohol. – Emphasizes that his involvement in this culture was initially a way to numb inner anxiety and mask shame.

────────────────────────────── 4. The Pain of Hiding and Coming Out

• [07:53–11:32] Arch reflects on the emotional toll of leading a secret double life: – Even though he understood that his attractions were something he would later label as sinful, he continued living in secrecy. – Alcohol played a major role in managing the duality of his social and professional life.

• [11:32–13:43] The coming-out experience: – Arch reveals that the mounting pressure finally forced him to disclose his homosexuality to his family, particularly during his early twenties. – He recounts a painful New Year’s Eve conversation with his mother, who reacted with tears and overwhelming grief, while his sisters reacted differently—with the eldest expressing anger and hurt, and the middle sister eventually attempting to reconnect and bridge the gap. – Despite the initial rift, over time his siblings began to accept him, though not without lingering pain tied to family expectations and past hardships (such as caring for his ailing mother).

────────────────────────────── 5. Navigating the Gay Lifestyle and Its Pitfalls

• [14:49–17:36] Arch provides insights into the nature of the gay club scene: – He describes the lifestyle during his college and early professional years as revolving solely around sex, intoxication, and a relentless pursuit of external validation. – Arch explains that while many in the community mask their inner struggles with alcohol or drugs, he ultimately found it unsatisfying and spiritually empty. – He laments the superficiality of a culture that lacked genuine spiritual connection, contrasting it sharply with the nurturing environment he experienced in church during his childhood.

────────────────────────────── 6. A Turning Point: Bible Study Fellowship and Renewed Conviction

• [33:17–34:10] The road to transformation: – At 55 years old, after many years of internal conflict, Arch’s middle sister persuaded him to join Bible Study Fellowship (BSF). Although initially hesitant due to his dislike of commitment, he eventually embraced the opportunity. – Arch recounts how, through studying the Bible—beginning with books like Kings (first year) and later John and Revelation—he experienced a flood of conviction and the work of the Holy Spirit that began transforming his life. – He describes those early years as a period of “hyper awareness” where he felt deeply convicted of all sin, leading him to adopt celibacy as a way to honor God.

• Notable Quote [33:41]: “It has transformed me … For the first time, I was convicted of my sins and I realized that God was calling me to a higher standard than the lifestyle I’d been living.”

────────────────────────────── 7. Overcoming Addiction and the Journey to Sobriety

• [39:00–41:10] Arch details his struggle with alcoholism: – His worst period of alcoholism spanned through his 40s, marked by frequent stints in detox and rehab. – He shares that while Bible study did not magically end his addiction, his body and spirit reached a breaking point where he could no longer endure the toll of alcohol. – This physical and spiritual exhaustion, combined with God’s gentle pull, eventually led him to seek sobriety and embrace recovery as an essential part of his new order of loves—choosing God over carnal desires.

• Host Allie interjects with a Biblical reflection (referencing Ephesians 5:18) to illustrate that instead of being “drunk with wine,” one can be filled with the Spirit—a theme that Arch’s own transformation embodies.

────────────────────────────── 8. Biblical Conviction on Sexuality and the Call to Higher Love

• [43:41–45:30] Arch shares his theological reflections: – After studying scripture in depth, he finds that Biblical passages clearly outline sexual relations as ordained for marriage between a man and a woman. – He insists that while one may not have control over one’s attractions, the decision on how to act on them is indeed a choice. – Arch uses his experience to explain that a properly ordered heart prioritizes God over all desires—using an analogy that “you need God more than you need to have sex, alcohol, or money.”

• He explains that through consistent Bible reading and community accountability, the Holy Spirit empowers believers to “take every thought captive” and to walk in the freedom that comes with submission to God’s Word.

────────────────────────────── 9. Offering Practical Advice to Listeners

• [52:05–54:48] Guidance for Christians facing or receiving a coming-out: – Arch advises that when someone confides in you about their sexuality, respond with compassion: “God loves you. You're a child of God and I love you. Let's work through this together.” – He stresses the importance of meeting one another with grace while holding fast to Biblical truths. – Arch encourages Christians to build supportive communities, as shared experiences—similar to recovery programs like AA—can help individuals navigate their internal battles and find healing in Christ.

• He suggests practical steps: – Daily immersion in scripture to combat temptation. – Joining a small group or community of believers who can provide accountability and share their experiences. – Relying on the renewing work of the Holy Spirit day by day.

────────────────────────────── 10. Conclusion and Final Resources

• [55:05–57:12] In wrapping up the conversation: – Arch reaffirms that all people battle sin and that the journey toward sanctification is ongoing. – He invites those wrestling with similar issues to learn from his testimony and to explore the resources he shares on his website (archkennedy.com) where he publishes weekly writings and videos based on God’s inspiration.

• Final Biblical Encouragement: – Host Allie concludes by quoting a passage reminiscent of 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, reminding listeners that though we are “washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,” it is God’s grace that continually transforms us.

────────────────────────────── Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• [00:01] A: “For decades, Arch Kennedy lived as an out and proud gay man until the Holy Spirit used the word of God...” • [33:41] B: “It has transformed me. I was convicted of my sins...” • [45:42] A: “You needed God more than you needed to have sex, more than you needed alcohol...” • [54:13] B: “God loves you. You're a child of God and I love you. Let's work through this together.”

────────────────────────────── Overall Impression

This episode is an intimate look into a life marked by struggle, secrecy, and eventual redemption. Arch Kennedy’s raw honesty—from the pain of living a double life and facing family rejection to the deep, transformative work of Biblical study and overcoming addiction—offers insight into the challenges many face when reconciling personal identity with faith. His testimony serves as a powerful reminder of the ongoing battle against disordered desires and reinforces the belief that, when God is placed first, transformation becomes possible.

Listeners who haven’t experienced this journey firsthand will find Arch’s testimony both relatable and encouraging, while the episode’s rich discussion of practical steps toward healing encourages a balanced, gospel-centered approach to every aspect of life.

For more resources, personal reflections, and insights into faith and culture, visit ArchKennedy.com.

────────────────────────────── End of Summary

This detailed summary captures the heart of the conversation, turning personal testimony into a source of encouragement and practical guidance for listeners navigating similar challenges.

Transcript

[A]

For decades, Arch Kennedy lived as an out and proud gay man until the Holy Spirit used the word of God through Bible study fellowship to convict him of his sin. And now he writes about the goodness of God, how it transformed his life and how it can transform yours, too. Today we are talking about his story, his testimony of redemption. You will be so encouraged. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers Good. To goodranchers.com, use code ALI at checkout. That's goodranchers.com code ALLIE. Arch, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Could you tell people who you are and what you do?

[B]

So my name's Arch Kennedy and I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. I a retired TV meteorologist, was in that field for about almost 20 years. And now I have found my purpose I feel like is my purpose. And I'm writing for my website on faith and culture. Much of what you do, discussing how Christians really can navigate in a world with a culture that tells us really anything goes.

[A]

And you focus a lot on your own testimony. You were in the gay community community and you became a Christian. And so we want to hear about that part of your testimony, of course. But let's go back to the beginning. How were you raised?

[B]

So I was raised in a small town. I was born in Atlanta with two older sisters. I had a dad who was a pilot for Delta, and my grandfather had bought a farm an hour south of Atlanta in the middle of nowhere in the big metropolis city of the Rock, Georgia. It's literally a place. If you look on the map, it is literally a place, but it was outside of Thomaston and that's where I went to school. And so I grew up a small town boy, you know, and grew up in the mornings, on Sunday mornings being taken to church. And I'm really grateful for that foundation that was laid by my parents as a kid.

[A]

That was going to be my next question. If you were raised a Christian, were you raised kind of typical Southern Baptist, so Presbyterian? Okay.

[B]

And yes, and you know it. I'm very thankful to my parents for laying that foundation for us because even though I would leave that in my 20s and 30s and go down a very bad road, it still planted the seed that I think was responsible for me coming to Christ later in life.

[A]

Talk more about that.

[B]

Okay. So it's a rocky road, Allie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I where do I begin? I knew I was different in high school and in this small town, nobody talked about homosexuality. We didn't have the Internet. We didn't have social media. And frankly, even in my church in a small town, I never heard the preacher mention the topic of homosexuality. So as I felt different after going through puberty, my friends were wanting to date and I didn't. Something was wrong, I felt, but I felt at the time I said, it's a phase. It's a phase I'm going through. So even though I wasn't physically attracted necessarily to men, I. While my friends were starting to want to date girls, I was preferred to just hang out with my buds. So I knew something was different. Eventually, the summer before college and I started at the University of Georgia, I would meet someone and actually carry on a relationship with and then begin my four or about four years of a double life. Really.

[A]

And at what point did you realize that you did feel an attraction to men?

[B]

I would say right after puberty. I mean, you know, I, when the, you know, for young men, when the hormones start raging, you know, what, late teens and early 20s, the attraction was there. It wasn't though, until right after high school that I actually carried through with it and actually had a relationship.

[A]

And I'm sure that as you started having those feelings, that there was a lot of fear if you were someone who really hadn't heard about it one way or the other going up. It was this, the 80s. The.

[B]

Yes. It would have been the mid to late late 80s.

[A]

Yes. That there was probably a lot of anxiety as you were feeling, oh, my goodness, I don't want these attractions, but here they are.

[B]

Yeah. And it was, it was, it was very hard because, you know, I grew up in a Christian conservative family and nobody talked about it. So I didn't even know that there existed this world that I would learn, you know, as I went to Atlanta and go to my first gay bar, that there was this whole society, this whole lifestyle. And it was a shocker to me because I saw people that, you know, if I'd ever heard of a gay person, you know, in the late 80s, you know, and not to stereotype, but it might have been a florist or somebody that did hair. And I don't mean to, you know, I'm not, you know, stereotypical trying to stereotype, but that's what I assumed. And then I saw there were lawyers, there were doctors, there were people that were, you know, out there that had the same type of same sex attraction that I did. So it was, it was like, and I, and I say this at the time, it was like a kid in a candy store, really. I was like this. Wow, how amazing. There are people that, you know, seem to be, seem to be pretty decent people that I can go out with and you know, that was what was going through my head at the time. And I pretty much during those college years left the church. I'd never, I rarely stepped foot in church at this point in my 20s. On.

[C]

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[B]

All.

[C]

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[A]

Although you hadn't really heard about it much growing up, like you didn't hear about it preached in church or I'm sure your parents didn't really talk about it. Something you knew that it was wrong though. Did you know during this time, high school, college, that okay, Christianity calls this a sin, or did you more feel like you had to hide just because it was different and you didn't know what your parents would think?

[B]

Eventually it was, I thought about it as a sin, but that wouldn't happen for about five more years till my mid to upper 20s, the entrance into college. In my late teens and early twenties, I found alcohol. And when I had my first drink, which was basically around the first year of college, I loved it. I absolutely. And when I look back, I can see a typical trait of an alcoholic. What divides alcoholics between non alcoholics? An alcoholic absolutely adores the feeling of inebriation, whereas a non alcoholic, they can take it or leave it. They might not even like the feeling that it produced. I loved it from the first day and I went headstrong into my alcoholism right into college. And I think that masked a lot of things. It really did a good job at the time of masking my shame of being gay and really knowing that I was and, and you know, it wouldn't be till some a few years later where I would begin to have those seeds of, you know, that were planted in my faith as a Kid, start to give me this turmoil, if you will, in my. In my soul, and wondering how I could juggle the two. How can I carry on what I know I can't help? I cannot help what I'm attracted to. I've tried to pray it away, and how can I juggle the two of carrying on that lifestyle and have my faith?

[A]

And even before you started feeling that conviction, you said that through college you lived a double life. So there was still some sort of shame, even if it wasn't spiritual conviction that you felt, maybe just because it wasn't acceptable in society at the time. But can you talk about how you. How did you manage to live a double life for so long? So you mean that your family and your friends thought that you were just, you know, straight, if that's the term that you want to use, that you just weren't interested maybe in dating girls, but you never let on that you also had this life?

[B]

Right. It was extremely hard, okay, to do this. It was extremely hard. And that's where the alcohol came in. And it worked for a while because it did mask this. This anxiety that it was creating within me. What would happen? I would. It would. It worked for a while, you know, through college. But as I got out of school and started my first job in television news, doing weather and Macon, I would end up living with my mother and commuting there because I didn't have any money, just out of school, you know, and. And so I was just starting out in life. And the pressure at that point, that's where everything hit the fan, so to speak, and where I had to finally tell my mom because the stress was killing me. And I kept hearing from sisters, who are you dating? Mom would say, who are you dating? You know this. Who are you dating? Constantly. And the pressure got too great. And that's when everything.

[A]

And you're about 22, 23 at this point?

[B]

Yeah, around that. Yeah, 23ish or so. Yeah.

[A]

Tell me about telling your mom.

[B]

So a little background on my mother. She had severe rheumatoid arthritis. She got it in the 70s, was already starting to get pretty sick right before she was pregnant with me. I was the last of three kids back in those days. Allie, they didn't have the drugs that they have today to stop the crippling of the joints, you know. And so she started getting really bad off when I was 10. And we were already using a wheelchair for her at. By 4. It went by her. By her by the time she was 40. So she was Pretty sick. And she had been through a lot at this point and that made it doubly hard to tell her. But I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't hold this lie anymore. It just came out. One New Year's Eve, I was working and I came home from the newscast and it came out. I don't know how, it just, you know, it wasn't planned.

[A]

You just couldn't keep it in anymore. It was just bubbling over the surface.

[B]

And she started bawling, this little sick lady who was, you know, sitting in her chair and it's hard to talk about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we both started crying. And, you know, I just, you know, she's like, of course, doing like, I guess a lot of mothers do, saying, you know, what did I do wrong? And just. And, and I said, no, it's nothing about you. I said, and, you know, it was a horrible night. It was a horrible night. But I think she knew, you know, I mean, at this point you haven't dated anybody. You're 24, you know, you're start. You're out of college. She knew. Yeah, but it was hard to.

[A]

Probably didn't want to.

[B]

Right. I mean, what mother probably does want to, you know, I don't. I doubt many do.

[A]

So what happened from there?

[B]

So from there. So I had two older sisters, both of them were news anchors. They're retired from the business as well.

[A]

That's very interesting. Yeah, we were all three went into.

[B]

Broadcasting and at one time we were all three on in Atlanta market at the same time in different places. So that was kind of cool.

[A]

Wow. Okay. I know that this is kind of an aside. I just think that's pretty remarkable that all of you had shared the same talent and you said that your dad was a pilot and so you don't.

[C]

Know where that, where that comes from.

[B]

I don't. But for me at least they were writers, you know, they were news anchors writers. I liked the weather aspect, which was all science. So for me, you know, my degree was totally meteorology. It wasn't anything to do with tv. It was a science major and a minor in mathematics and you know, so actually my field related to my dad's. He had to know a lot of meteorology as a pilot. So. But for them, I have no idea where that, you know, they just. I think I, you know, as a younger kid too, as. I'm sorry, as the youngest kid, I. I really looked up to my sisters and I think I wanted to maybe fall in their footsteps and so it interested. That was Interesting to me. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So after you came out to your mom, did you tell your sisters?

[B]

Yeah. So this was, this was interesting. So the, so I have two, I have two older sisters. One, the second to oldest, she was what I called at the time, the more open minded, you know, sister. And the oldest sister was very faith filled at the time. And I don't like to, I don't want to say this because I don't want to talk negatively about her, but I felt like she might have been more judgmental. I just felt this, that telling her she was the one I was worried about. So oddly, the oldest sister was very angry and she wrote me a letter after I told mother and said it really, it cut me to the core. My heart, it cut my heart out because she said, how dare you do this to mom after all this family has been through. Meaning with mom's disease and our caregiving of her. How dare you do this to her and just destroy her. And it was already hard enough, but to get that just compounded the pain and that all of this was causing, causing me. So that was tough. A good, a good end to that story is that she eventually grew to understand my, that I couldn't help what I felt, you know, as far as same sex attraction. And she, I'm not saying accepted it, but changed. She, she learned to love, love me and unconditionally, if that makes any sense.

[A]

Yeah, maybe more gentle of an approach. She maybe in that moment was more thinking about her mom's pain and how her mom felt and she felt defensive of your mom without thinking about the pain that you were also going through. She might have seen what you did as more selfish.

[B]

And at that point, until they really learned about, about homosexuality, they didn't know, you know, they thought that was a choice. As far as now when I say a choice, a choice of what I was, you know, of doing, of doing it, you know, there's a difference. And this is one thing I have to emphasize that I really wanted to emphasize with, with people is it's not a choice what you're attracted to. I tried for years to pray it away and I couldn't stop the attraction. What we can do is choose to act on it. We can choose what to do with.

[A]

It and dwell on it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

As well. Yeah, that's a choice as well. You know, we might not be able to help all of our attractions, but the Holy Spirit gives us the power to take every thought captive as well. So. And then of course, so there's the thought Life, the heart life and the actual acting out life that God can help us with. But those initial attractions, you certainly didn't ask for, nor did you want them.

[B]

Right. And until we have you mentioned a very key part. Until we have the Holy Spirit, we don't have a way to fight to battle that. We don't have a way. And I didn't. And this wouldn't be till recently.

[A]

Y'. All.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[B]

All.

[C]

We want to make it to 5,000.

[A]

So if you haven't bought your ticket.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

And then your middle sister, how did she react?

[B]

So she was, you know, I'm sure she had her thoughts on it because we've, we're all Christian background and they, you know, they have their faith, strong faith as well. I'm sure she probably knew it wasn't. But she was just one of those that wasn't going to.

[A]

React.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was gonna love me anyway. And Let me figure things out.

[A]

And then what did life look like after that? Did you. Well, first I have to pause. Where is your dad?

[B]

So my dad is in Atlanta. He is still living. My mom has passed for over a decade now.

[A]

Okay. But in this moment, your dad, had you talked to him about this?

[B]

So that's a. That's a little complicated because my parents divorced when I was 10.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Okay. So I wasn't. To put it simply without going into a long story, it. We weren't as close as I was to my mother because of my mother's disease. I cared for her. And he. He moved back to Atlanta. She was still in the Rock and for a period of time before she eventually moved back to Atlanta. But I wasn't just. I just wasn't as close to him. I loved him, but there was a lot of tension between the two, and I was caught in the middle.

[A]

Right. So very difficult.

[B]

And because of her illness, that also compounded the tension because I was going to. I knew in my heart I was going to spend my time with her, helping to take care of her with my sisters. And he resented it. She resented him. That was tough. So he. I would not tell till later.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And oddly, here's the funny thing about my dad, the very one that I was the most scared to tell. I would tell him, you know, a few years later. He was the most. He was the best about it. I'm not saying accepting, but he said he knew and he loved me no matter what. That's all he said. He didn't say, you know, typical male, very few words.

[A]

Right, right. And sometimes, you know, a few words is all it takes. But. So after you came out to your sisters and your mom, did you feel a sense of freedom to be more public in your sexuality or what did that look like?

[B]

So for the. For a short time, you know, probably six months to a year, I thought I'd never see them again because the reaction was harsh, you know, from really my sister and my mom and I went for at least a good six, six months to a year not knowing if I would ever see my family again, that they were going, that they had disowned me. I thought that they might have. And eventually the middle sister, the middle child, she called me up and said, there is an opening at cnn. I want you to put your tape in. I want you to put your tape. Because she was an anchor there at the time. And so she said. And that was her way to kind of break the ice, I think. And if anybody was going to do that, speak to me after all this. I thought she would be the one. And she was. And, you know, it's. It's very hard to remember what transpired after that. But we all kind of came back together and we just didn't talk about it. Just didn't talk about it for a while.

[A]

Were you living pretty publicly as a gay man at this point?

[B]

Yes. So after Macon, in my upper 20s, I got my job in Atlanta at the NBC affiliate right at the Olympics in 1996, which was a great time at that time in television news. You really couldn't be open about it. And so I kind of lived a double life publicly as far as my job was concerned. And then what I would do, being out in the lifestyle, but that would kind of be kept secret. The two. But my. The pressure of the family, that was the biggest relief for me. It didn't bother me having to live the double life publicly. Does that make sense? So, yeah, I think the per. The family was the part that was the most stressful because it's the people, the very people that I loved.

[A]

Yeah. So you mentioned when you first decided to live as a gay man, that you found out about your gay nightclubs and you mentioned the gay scene in Atlanta, which of course, you didn't know about before. And you said something, and I'm not sure if it was intentional. You said there are these lawyers and doctors and all these people who seemed like decent people. And Beckett Cook, whom I know you've talked to. I've talked to, has talked about kind of like the. Underneath the surface of like the gay nightclub scene and the gay scene, that it is different in many ways than what is presented by the media and what people might think. And Christopher Yuan has made similar comments on the show. Can you talk about that?

[B]

Yeah. And it's. It's a. It is a. I just want to say it is a horrible lifestyle. I was full force into it, out at the bars on my off time. And the whole lifestyle revolves. Revolves around sex and your sexuality. Everything that is your identity, everything is. Revolves around that. And the superficiality of it, the soullessness of it. There's nothing redeeming. There was nothing redeeming about it. I. I can remember as much as I loved my partying and drinking and being out with people and living that debauchery, if you will. I can remember feeling. And this was. God, I think, working in me from. Is that I felt. This is. Certain times I would feel this is just not right. This is not right. And I would just remain torn between my faith or what I had of. Of it at that time and my lifestyle, if that makes any sense.

[A]

Is it true that drugs and alcohol are a major part of the lgbtq, if you want to call them community or world?

[B]

Oh, huge. It revolves around sex and drugs and alcohol. That's all there was. I mean, every event was a drinking and drugging event. Every party involved that. When I look back at it, I think, and, and I hate, I hate talking so bad about people, you know, but there was just nothing good about the lifestyle, Ali. I mean, it just, it was so superficial. God certainly wasn't part of it. He wasn't involved in anybody's life. There was so much resentment with gay people and church. They all had this hatred. They all had this. And I shouldn't say all, I hate using that word, but that so many.

[A]

Felt like it at the time.

[B]

Yes. That, you know, I would hear many people say or tell me their. Give me their experiences of how the church hurt them. People, you know, their church told them they were going to hell and, you know, and, and, and the resentment that so many had. Oddly, I never, in my small little town, I never had that experience. I had the best experience in church as a kid. Yeah, but I don't deny that they did. I don't deny that some people had that experience because, you know, it happens.

[A]

And obviously all kinds of people use drugs and alcohol. But you mentioned in your own experience of using alcohol, you use that to kind of like numb conviction, but also to make yourself feel better about this double life that you were leading. Do you think that that was a key motivator in the drug and alcohol use of a lot of the people that you were spending time with?

[B]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think people were masking it. You know, it's a lot more accepted today. As you know, it's culturally very accepted. In fact, it's promoted now within companies and, and, and even churches, which is. Yeah, and so at that time, at least in my, you know, in the 80s and 90s, people had no outlet, you know, they had no place to feel safe, I guess, or secure. And so drinking, you know, drinking or drugging definitely helped, I guess. Yeah, helped. You know, just to deal with that, to deal with the world that they felt so insecure in. And I can understand the insecurity.

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[A]

So there was a lot of church hurt, was there? Also? We hear about this a lot. Although getting statistics around something like this is difficult. But you hear anecdotally that within all forms of LGBTQ there tends to be a lot of past sexual trauma and past sexual abuse. Did you feel like that was something that you heard a lot about when you were inundated in that community?

[B]

No, I didn't. I certainly didn't have it. I'm not. I certainly know that it exists. But, you know, it's so. It's. It's so odd. Ali, like, what makes somebody same sex attracted? You know, it's so complicated. You hear of these situations. Was it trauma? Is that what you're meaning? Like, is it trauma that caused them to.

[A]

Well, I, I don't know if a causal link is necessarily provable, but it does seem that it is more prevalent for someone who identifies as LGBTQ to have a past of enduring sexual trauma.

[B]

Interesting. Yes. And again, I'm not sure on the statistics part, but, you know, that definitely can be the case with some, but, you know, in the same. And when you look at, you know, biologically with alcoholism, there are. That's also complex too, because I think, I think, you know, that biology has a lot to do with this, with same sex attraction too, because I think it's part of it. It could be trauma, that could be part of it, but also biology. You know, with alcoholism, we look at genetics, we look at just repetition. So you see some people that just have such a social life, they get to the point where they cross over from drinking a lot to addiction. And once you've crossed that point, you no longer have a choice. And so there's various roads to alcoholism too. Why couldn't that be the case for homosexuality? Right. I mean, maybe.

[A]

Mm. And really, at the end of the day for the Christian, it's like, well, it doesn't matter because all of us are called to repentance and new life. And so that whole debate that people have had for a long time, what causes it? As you said, there could be a variety of things in a person's life that causes what God would call a disordered desire. So at what point you have these kind of inklings every now and then that, ugh, this doesn't feel right. My family knows, and this still doesn't feel right. So when would you say that kind of discomfort actually transformed into a real conviction?

[B]

Okay, this is the good part for me. This is the good part of the story. This has actually been only recent. Allie. So I'm 55. My sister convinced me finally to join a Bible study.

[A]

Older sister, middle sister, middle sister.

[B]

This is the middle sister. About three. Three years ago.

[A]

Very recent.

[B]

Yes. So three years ago. And it was the best thing of my life. Best thing that could have happened in my life. She had been prodding me a little bit to do it for a couple of years. And I said no, because I hate commitment. And I knew it was a commitment because BSF is a year long at bas. Basically goes through the school year Bible.

[A]

Study fellowship for those who don't know. It's very intense Bible study that's been around for a long time.

[B]

Yeah. And so she had been doing it like a decade and loved it. And I don't know what happened, Ali, but like three years ago, I took her up on it. I said, okay, okay. And I think that was a God thing. I think it was just a God thing. I can't explain why I said yes, but it was. It has transformed me. So I went through the first year of it, loved it. And it was the really. The first time I'd read a Bible verse here and there. Like a lot of Christians, you grew.

[C]

Up in church, so you would heard it.

[B]

But I've never studied the Word. That's a whole different ball game there. And when I started studying God's Word, I think I feel the Holy Spirit started working within me. And I noticed a change in me. I noticed that I was becoming convicted for the first time in my life that I had a deep conviction of my sins. And I was hyper aware. So that first year, I was very hyper aware of my sins. Not just. Not just homosexuality, but anything. You know, there are lots of sins out there.

[A]

Lying, drunkenness. Yeah.

[B]

So. And I can remember that about the first year to two years, being exhausted. You know why I was exhausted? Because of that hyper awareness of my sins and getting through a day and realizing I didn't. I didn't fix any of them. I Wasn't doing any better today, or I did good yesterday, but I didn't do good this day. And I got into this legalistic way of looking at myself. Not other people, but looking at myself, if that makes any sense. So I was, I was in this, this, this mode of checking off a list. Okay, what did I do today? You know, and, oh, I didn't. I did this. This was wrong, you know, or whatnot. And becoming exhausted by year three of doing it. I think it was the Holy Spirit working in me and starting to really love God more, you know, and more and more that I was sinning less and less. And I decided that celibacy was what I needed to do, that I still had the struggle. I still do. Speaking to you right here, right now, I still have the struggle, but God is calling me to be celibate. And that's all transpired in the last three years.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

@ first I was feeling angry. Why, God, do you make me? Why do you give me this attraction and then tell me I can't do anything, that I can't be married and that I can't do this? But as I, as I believe this is the Holy Spirit working. As I love God more and more by studying his Word, which we all have to do. And I know this now, it makes it easier. So I begin to want him more than I need to have sex without being graphic. But that's the case. That's the case. So it's not some magic pill. And this is where, this is what I want to do. I want to help others like me, because I think there are very few gay people that get to where I'm at. I still have a long way to go. I still sin, we all do. But. But I am much more at peace. And I want to help others that are grappling with their faith and same sex attraction by being, you know, I think you have to hear from somebody that's experienced it to get help, you know. You know, aa, for instance, why does it work so well? Well, because you have another alcoholic who's in recovery, who's doing well, who is actually happy in sobriety. There's no judgment, right? Because they've been there. And so that's where the help comes from. So that's what I kind of want to do in this respect. I feel like I'm being called to.

[A]

Do that during this time, or I guess during what time did you repent from alcoholism and drunkenness?

[B]

So I went through my worst phase of alcoholism through my 40s, and this has been pretty recent. My sobriety, you know, as far as. When you look at my whole life, there was a lifetime of drinking, but through my 40s was. I went through the darkest days. In and out of detox, hospitals, rehab.

[A]

Facilities, drugs too, or just alcohol.

[B]

Just alcohol. And it wasn't until. Right. Right before, right before I started with bsf. I think what had happened for me, it wasn't BSF that magically got me off of alcohol. I think I had gotten to the point in my alcoholism that my body couldn't take it anymore. Because what happens is when you learn about it, it rewires the brain when you're into addiction and you get to the point where the substance alters your body and it makes. Becomes almost really toxic for you. And you get to the point, just to put it simply, where you've had enough, you can't go through another. You can't go through another withdrawal, because withdrawal with alcohol or drugs is horrible for those who have suffered addiction. You know, it is excruciating. And my body got tired enough that I said, I can't do this. I can't do another one. I can't go through this one more time. And so I sought help one more time. Went through detox into. Into rehab. But I think also for me at that time, God was already starting to work on me at that time, which is also what I think led me to saying yes to my sister on the invitation to do Bible study. So, yes, alcoholism is a tough one. It is an equal opportunity offender. I always say it affects Christians, non Christians, poor, rich, you know, all kinds of people.

[A]

Yeah. And I think of that verse in Ephesians that says, do not be drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the spirit. So you can either be filled with alcohol or filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, that doesn't mean that if you get drunk, you're no longer saved, but you are no longer being controlled by the spirit spirit within you. You are being controlled by the alcohol within you. Which makes a lot of sense to me. Why? You know, as soon as you stopped that the Holy Spirit was like, yeah, I'm. I'm here and I'm ready to talk to you, and we're going this direction now.

[B]

He grabbed me. He grabbed me at the. At that sobriety point and said, let's go. We got to go forward. But yeah, so you just. Yeah, it. That's exactly it. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I'm sure that was Difficult to let go of too. But God helps us in that weakness as well.

[B]

He does. I fully believe that.

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[A]

Do you remember the moment over the past three years that you started dealing with specifically that sin of homosexuality? Because as you know, there are many people who profess to be Christians and who say, well, you know what? God did make me this way, so it's fine. And there are a few verses maybe that seem to condemn homosexuality. But they'll have their reasons for saying, well, it's okay, I can be full fledged Christian, I don't feel convicted about it and I can still live this lifestyle. You could have come to that conclusion. It would have been easier, but you didn't. So tell me about wrestling with that.

[B]

I. What I think, and this is just, this is what I feel is it wasn't until studying the Word, you know, like I said, there's a difference with reading some Bible verses and doing a devotional, you know, every morning and getting into a group, a small group of men who are all very versed in scripture and to work with them, discussing scripture and studying it. And I think there's a, I think that that is where I don't see really any other way to interpret it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, okay, so I've, because it applies to me, I start looking at all the verses that even remotely reference homosexuality and we go, here's, here's the, here's where I don't understand why churches can interpret it as being okay with, well, if they love each other, they are, you know, it's okay. It is quite evident that marriages between scriptures tells us it's marriages between a man and a woman that anything sexually outside of that is adultery. So, and then there are clear verses both old and New Testament strictly on homosexuality. So anything outside, I mean, I don't see how it's more evident. I don't see how you can interpret it any other way. I don't. There's not a. To me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's not any. It's not up for interpretation.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's very simple.

[A]

And what it came down to for you, which was. It was a very beautiful way to say it, and I know it is graphic, but you can replace what said with so many other things. That you needed God more than you wanted to have sex.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or you wanted God more than you needed to have sex. And you can replace sex and that, like, that's true for anyone of any, you know, orientation, if you want to even use that term, desire outside of marriage. But any carnal desire we have, we need God more than we need alcohol. We need God more than we need money. We need God more than we need, you know, to be beautiful or successful or anything. And when that is where you start, then scripture makes sense. But if you're starting with I need sex, I need money, I need fame first, and you interpret scripture that way, then of course, you can pick apart the verses. So I thought that that was a very poignant way to say the right ordering of our loves. And that's the only way that any of us as Christians can operate.

[B]

Right. I mean, there's more. There are more sins out there than homosexuality. And, you know, I. I read several devotionals. Paul Tripp, have you heard, okay, the.

[A]

New Morning Mercies Devotional? Is that what you talked.

[B]

Is that. I'm sorry. I'm trying to think. It's.

[A]

Maybe there is one that he wrote called that, but it could be.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It may be referencing something different. He.

[B]

He talks a lot, but he talks a lot about the vertical and the horizontal. And when we live in the horizontal, meaning temporal things, fame, looking for fame, sex, money. None of those. None of those offer lasting. You. You're always needing more, in other words. But when we look in the vertical God, that is lasting peace and lasting, you know, satisfaction, if you will. And I love that how he says that. And when God becomes. You're right. I mean, you. That sums it up. When God eventually. And I. I attribute it to the Holy Spirit working within a person who stays in God's word daily, that he becomes more important than anything on the earth, that we can be searching for satisfaction.

[A]

And was there a moment that you realized that. Was there a moment that you cried out to God and you were like, okay, God, like, this is It. I'm going to surrender everything to you, and you're going to have to help me.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it did. It happened, you know, and it. I can't tell you the peace that comes over that came over me when I finally really did that. And I have to tell you, I think I hear a lot of people say that they're, they're. They're saved or they're born again, but I don't think I was truly saved until.

[A]

When would you say that was that you truly became a Christian?

[B]

I'd say it happened after the first. Probably at least after the first year of Bible study.

[A]

Do you remember what book y' all studied in that first year?

[B]

We studied Kings, I believe we studied Kings. I believe that was the first year.

[A]

Okay. Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. And then we got into John the second year, which is, of course, you know, the Book of John. You tell people. Okay, so if you're, if you're a new Christian or new. Or even just, you know, looking into it, seeing if you buy into it, that's the book to read because it basically tells you what it means to be a Christian. Right. The story of Jesus.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, and then Revelation we did last year.

[A]

Yep. And I was not mbsf, but I've had. I had friends who were doing it last year and teaching me a lot about Revelation.

[B]

Yeah. So I had read it before, but it's complex to me, very much.

[A]

It is very complex.

[B]

You're not alone in feeling that. I think last year was my favorite year, learning that and to really get into it, you know, because even now, I still, like. Some of. It's still a little confusing, you know, frightening.

[A]

Well, it's a different side of Jesus too, because it's Jesus, you know, it's Jesus the conqueror, Jesus who is ready to take vengeance. And, you know, it's Jesus the warrior, not Jesus that was led to the slaughter as a silent lamb. I mean, it's all the same Jesus, of course, but different characteristics of him. So, yeah, Revelation is very interesting and.

[B]

We get to see how. You know, I think that unbelievers always like to. When they want to debate you on if, if Christianity is the true religion, if Jesus is the true God, they always want to bring up the, the, the, the fire and brimstone, especially that you see in, in Revelation. But, you know, when you study the Bible as a whole, you know, in context, you realize that his justice is perfectly balanced with his mercy. Right. So. Oh, you're looking at this terrible God that killed people in the Old Testament. Well, he gave, and we studied this in Kings too, you know that he gave them time after time after time to come back to him. He gave them chance after chance and that was his mercy. Right?

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[A]

If someone out there has someone in their life who has told them, hey, I'm gay, or they think they're transgender or something like that, what would you, what advice would you give to Christians on how we should respond in those moments?

[B]

So, you know, it's tough and especially when you talk about that, when you ask that question, I feel more compassion for the young ones. Okay. The ones they're in their 20s and when the hormones are raging, that's a hard thing to ask. Do you want God more than you want this, this person?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's a really hard thing to ask. And I think my strength came. My strength came from being in God's word and studying God's Word daily. I think I have a built in forgetter. You know, I can, it's easy to forget. And I need daily to be refreshed by listening to God through his Word in scripture. And I really think that is the only way that you can fight this temptation. I think it's the only way to do it and also to be in communion with other believers and people like me. Like, I've got a long way to go, Ali, but I certainly think that people need to be in communion with people like me that may be a little farther down the road that can help them through because I think it helps to hear from somebody that's been through it. Yeah, that's what really helps.

[A]

Yep. So for the person who is on the receiving end of the. Someone telling them, like, hey, I'm gay and maybe they're coming out to someone who's a Christian, for those in this audience who are on the receiving end of that conversation, what should they say, what is the best thing that they can say in that moment?

[B]

God loves you. You're a child of God and I love you. Let's work through this together.

[A]

So they need to feel that love without affirmation.

[B]

You're not bound for hell unless you don't accept Christ as your Savior. The rest will work out. The rest will work it out. We'll work out this battle as we go along. That's what we do.

[A]

And we're in it together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Is there any other encouragement that you would give people who maybe are in your position, maybe who totally disagree with you or disagree with me? What message would you convey?

[B]

Let's love one another and realize that everybody has their sin. Okay? Everybody battles something. Let's love one another and as believers, help them through. Help them through the struggle. Because if you. All you need is that faith in Christ for the Holy Spirit to come in and transform you like it has done me. And it certainly did. It certainly has and continues to.

[A]

Well, Arch, thank you so much. Can you tell people where they can find the resources that you're publishing?

[B]

Yes. Archkennedy.com, pretty simple. My name, I'm producing a lot of. You know, I listen for the Lord to give me some ideas every day, and I never have yet to fail to think of a topic. And I'm writing weekly on that and producing videos on the blogs that I write. And I just love what I'm doing. I'm just doing it for the Lord. I just love it. So, yeah, they can find me there and all the links to everything else on my website.

[A]

Well, thank you. Okay, let me end with this passage that your testimony reminds me of. So just like in kind of typical Gospel fashion, we have bad news and then good news. And this is First Corinthians 6, 9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. In such were some of you. But you are washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. God is good and his grace transforms. And I'm so thankful for your testimony. So thank you for sharing it.

[B]

Thank you, Allie. I'm really glad to be here. I really appreciate it.

[A]

Thank you.