← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1236 | Mom of 10 on How to Order Your Day & Raise Godly Kids | Abbie Halberstadt
00:59:03
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- [00:01]
A
As more and more people are opting out of parenthood because of its difficulty. Abby Halberstadt, author and homeschooling mom of 10, is here to tell women why motherhood and all of the stretching that it does of your body and your soul is 100% worth it. Also, Abby is back with us this year at Share the Arrows. She's going to be on an amazing motherhood panel. You're going to love this conversation. So you'll also love that conversation at Share the Arrows. So make sure you go to sharethe arrows.com, use code ABBY15. That's ABBY15. You'll get 15% off your ticket. This episode with Abby is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com, use code ALI at checkout. That's goodranchers.com code ALLY. Abby, thanks so much for joining us again.
- [00:58]
B
Yep. Thanks for having me, Ally.
- [00:59]
A
Okay, you are here looking amazing. Yet you have some kind of cast thing on your leg because you just had surgery a few days ago.
- [01:09]
B
Yes, I have a, a super sexy compression hose thing. Plus I threw another compression thing on top of that.
- [01:16]
A
Just double compression.
- [01:17]
B
Double compression to make it extra attractive. Yes.
- [01:19]
A
Okay.
- [01:21]
B
So I have lovely gnarly varicose veins from my first pregnancy with twins, which was 13 years ago, that have just progressively gotten worse over time. They hurt, they're unsightly, and the doctor's like, listen, this is a degenerative thing. Like, it's not getting better on its own and you don't want to be my dad. I get them from my dad and I see what his look like at 70 years old, and I'm like, I should probably do something about that. So I did do something about that. Finally, like, postponed it. And it got postponed on me multiple times, but did that on Friday.
- [01:57]
A
Oh, my goodness. And you're here and you're walking, but it's kind of painful still.
- [02:01]
B
Yeah. I think doctors jobs other than, you know, helping heal you is to tell you you're going to be, like, doing everything, like, backwards and you're gonna be fine and it's gonna be tomorrow. And so he was like, I love pickleball. And he was like. I was like, when can I play pickleball again? He's like, five days. Or to like, your tolerance of pain, which, of course, with my competitive personal. Tomorrow. That's right, tomorrow. And I won't let pain get in my way. I can barely walk. I'm not playing pickleball. I'm like, hobbling. You know, so she thinks doc.
- [02:32]
A
But, yeah, it's okay. Okay, so you've had 10 kids, two twin pregnancies, which I'm sure, as you said, contributed to the varicose veins, and you've been dealing kind of with the aches and pains of that for a while.
- [02:46]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [02:47]
A
Yeah. And that kind of ties into your book.
- [02:50]
B
It does, right.
- [02:51]
A
Okay, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about your book. You bet your stretch marks. Yeah, right. Tell me about the title.
- [02:58]
B
So probably five or six years ago, I had all these people asking me questions, like, I'm putting in all this effort in motherhood. I'm dying to myself. I'm reading my Bible. I'm being kind with my kids. I'm wiping bottoms. I'm dealing with, you know, teenage angst and hormones, and I just kind of feel like I'm not getting anywhere. Do you. Can you give me some encouragement that this is worth it, that this is, like, taking me somewhere, that this is going to produce fruit? And so as I was typing out an Instagram post to address one of these DMS that I'd gotten, or like, a deluge of them, really, because it feels like there are themes. Do you. Do you get that? Where DMs seem to come in, like.
- [03:35]
A
Threads in ways, it's like, are y' all all seeing the same thing? That's inspiring you to ask this question.
- [03:40]
B
Maybe it's something that went viral. Who knows?
- [03:42]
A
Yeah.
- [03:42]
B
But I think in this case, it was just a bunch of weary moms that needed encouragement and hope. And I ended the post, and I was like, I need an emphatic statement, like, to. That there's no doubt about where I stand on whether this is worth it or not. And immediately the phrase, like, you bet your cause I'm Texas. You know, I'm in Texas. So I was like, you bet your boot. No, that doesn't. And really what just came out was, you bet your stretch marks. Because while not everyone has stretch marks, I personally, that's not how my body responded. It popped out some varicose veins, you know, but we all have. Whether we are bio moms, foster moms, stepmoms, adoptive moms, there's gonna be wear and tear on our bodies from carrying kids, from bending over and washing those babies in the bath, whatever it is. But more than that, there's gonna be marks on our souls. There's gonna be marks on our emotions and our minds. And the world tells us that's a bad thing, that those marks are Things that we should erase, that we should try to scrub and repair and make shiny again. And sometimes you do like you get varicose vein surgery so that you can walk better and feel a little better. There's nothing wrong with that. But that phrase just popped into my mind and I was like, what a great metaphor for the way that motherhood stretches. I'm assuming every single one of us that experiences it to our limits and beyond.
- [04:59]
A
Yeah, gosh, there was so much change that I noticed in my body with my first pregnancy. And it's a little bit hard at first because, you know, you think, I guess, that you're the only woman ever whose body won't change. And then you put a lot of pressure on yourself or some people do to, you know, bounce back to look exactly like you did before, to try to basically erase all signs and signals of pregnancy. And you realize, especially after you have more and more kids, that it's never going to be exactly the same. And you do have to come to terms with that, that that's okay. It almost feels like even just the physical aspect of it feels like a way to die to yourself and a way to deny yourself and to let go of the things that you thought were so important, which is a perfect body or a perfect figure or looking like your 18 year old self forever. And you just realize as you look at your kids and you see the stretching that they've done in so many ways, that it's worth it. It's worth every change.
- [06:01]
B
Yeah, 100%. My friend Brittany has this great phrase that I have just stolen from her wholesale, which is our bodies are tools, not treasures. And I think what I'm not big into blaming society for where we end up mentally, but. But we have to acknowledge all of the pressures and all of the messaging that we're getting constantly from social media and from media in general, which is that we're supposed to be doing everything possible to preserve our current best state when we're young.
- [06:30]
A
Right? So true.
- [06:32]
B
But the Bible says to offer up yourselves as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, this is your spiritual act of worship. It's a very physical act of worship too. It's a complete paradigm shift. So if we think, rather than trying to hoard every bit of beauty and health and firmness and bounce that we can, that we are using that up for the glory of God and for the benefit of our families and then the greater world, man, does that change the way your mind sees the lines and wrinkles and stretch marks and sags and honestly, that were going to happen anyway. Even if you don't have kids, you don't get to keep the perky forever.
- [07:09]
A
You hoard a treasure, you use a tool. And tools can be used to build and to grow other things that last. Whereas treasure, when it's hoarded and when it's kept, it doesn't do anything. And actually, the Bible talks about storing up earthly treasure. Moth and rust are going to destroy that. But if we're using whether it's our money, our body, our words as tools to build up a legacy that lasts to advance the kingdom of heaven, well, then you're actually making an investment that lasts forever rather than one that's going to die when we do.
- [07:44]
B
100%. Absolutely. And the Bible is really clear that it's not going to last. Charm is deceptive. Beauty is fading. But a woman who fears the Lord, and part of fearing the Lord is saying, what does the Lord require of me? To do good, to love justice, to love mercy, and to follow the Lord all the days of our lives, man. Well, then in that case, there's nothing wrong with taking care of this temple. That's another T word that describes our bodies that God has given us to worship him with. But it can't become the sole focus.
- [08:18]
A
Okay, quick pause from that amazing conversation to tell you about our first sponsor. And it is, of course, Kylie Jean, Los Angeles, y'. All. CJLA takes the stress out of getting ready every day. I love that they're a capsule clothing company so you could buy yourself six really high quality pieces, mix and match them all season long and still feel like you have a fresh wardrobe without breaking the bank. Plus, it's just nice to be minimalistic, to be able to focus on the things that you need to focus on, to invest in the things that you need to invest in. Allow getting ready to be like the easiest part of your day. That's what CJLA does. I love all of their clothes, but I especially love their denim. All of their jeans are just so comfortable. They just fit so well. They're stretchy without losing their shape throughout the day and that is hard to find. Plus, their basics line is all made in the US So you can support American industry. Carly and her family are the real deal. I have hung out with them several times and they are just as amazing as you would think. They are Christian. They love this country and they love making sure that you have beautiful clothes that you can feel good in in any season of life. So go to carlyjean losangeles.com use promo code ALI B for 20 off your order, no matter how many times you've ordered with them before you get 20 off with my code Ali B at Carly Jean, Los Angeles.
- [09:46]
B
And.
- [09:52]
A
Okay, let's talk about for a second, like, the mommy makeovers that you hear about. And I think that this is even a discussion among Christian women, like, okay, we've got stewardship of our body. We're supposed to eat healthy. We're supposed to exercise. We're supposed to treat our bodies with dignity and respect. I mean, the Holy Spirit lives here. That's a really big deal. We're going to have a resurrection of the bodies one day. Jesus came bodily. Obviously, God really cares about our body.
- [10:16]
B
Absolutely.
- [10:17]
A
I think that can sometimes be confused, though, with vanity, you know, with doing things just for the purpose of maintaining the look of youth or a particular esthetic. And so you hear about, you know, like, either breast augmentation or breast lift or different kinds of rejuvenation or Botox or fillers or facelifts. Like, do you think, especially when it comes to the difficulty that birth and pregnancy puts our bodies through, like, what do you think the conversation should be like among Christian women about that kind of plastic surgery and those procedures?
- [10:56]
B
I think we can start kind of where we just were, which is tools versus treasures, because the Bible says, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. And almost everything you just listed is incredibly expensive. So if we're talking about a mom, for example, there's nothing wrong with using whatever earthly treasure God has entrusted you with to buy quality clothing. To buy. Like, I love buying Adele makeup. I know you love their makeup as well. It's clean. It's good for my skin. It's nice to feel fresh and ready for the day when I wear it. And there are people that could argue with me that that that doesn't qualify, too. But when you talk about spending a significant portion of your family's income in the pursuit of preserving something that would not naturally stay that way, and you're trying to turn back the hands of time, I think it's very easy for that to become a drain on your family, for it to become an obsession, for it to become a maintenance thing. Because if you're going to fill it once, it's going to start sagging again. In some cases, you're talking about not stewarding your temple well, because, for example, breast implants, they can cause you to be very sick. Botox is called tox because it's a neurotoxin and you can have some really bad side effects from that. So it's kind of one of those things that requires discernment. It's not necessarily a hard and fast right or wrong, but for me personally, I'm going to land on that's not where I want my family's money to go. That's not what I want to put in my body. And it's also not where I want to mentally focus because I know I can quickly spiral into self obsession if I do go there.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah. And I think it's just like with so many things is that before we make any decision, especially one that is expensive, especially one that alters our body, it's good to ask ourselves why? And because I can hear people saying, well, I had this issue with my breast tissue or I had this issue that I needed a plastic surgery for. And try not to project the exceptions that you might truly represent into a conversation about generalities and principles. We're speaking in principle here, but anytime we're making a major decision, I think it's important for all of us, every single one of us to say, why am I doing this? Why am I putting this on my body? Why am I making this investment? Is it to be a good steward? Is it important for the stewardship and the health of this outer shell? Or is it because I want people to think this about me or because I want this person to desire me? And all of those are really good opportunities for us to ask Jesus, like, can you show me, like, what is my motivation? What's my heart behind this? And help me only do the thing that is about your glory. Absolutely. That's just a part of sanctification.
- [13:46]
B
It is. And Jesus says himself that from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. So when I find myself, and my husband is quick to correct me on this because he finds me very beautiful even when I find a lot of flaws. And he says, you're prettier now than you were 20 years ago when I married you. And he means it. I can eas, like roll my eyes and say, oh, you're just saying that. Oh, you know, keeping the peace. He means it. And so I have to be willing to listen to the voices of truth in my life and acknowledge those and not roll my eyes and instead almost elevate my own wisdom or my own self focus above what the people that love me are saying, which is, you are. It's that kind of trite thing, but you're perfect just the way you are. I love you, like for who you are. I know, not everybody has those voices in their. And that would make it harder, I.
- [14:38]
A
Think, which is why listening to your creator is so important. Because it's one thing when your husband's like, you're perfect the way you are. I wouldn't change anything. It's another thing when you might just see an influencer say that on Instagram, and you're like, well, that person doesn't really know me. They don't know what I look like. They don't know my.
- [14:55]
B
Or they look great, and I don't look like her, so I can't take her seriously. Like. Yeah, exactly.
- [15:00]
A
But the beautiful thing is, is that, like, our worth and value as Christians is fixed on Jesus, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. How we feel about ourselves, what other people say about us, what the Internet has to say. They're all very fickle, and they're based on all these superficial things. But that's important, especially as moms, as our bodies change through these seasons, that God's love for us, which is fixed on Jesus, never, ever changes, and it never undulates. And that's really where your confidence has to come from, no matter what the voices are saying in your life.
- [15:33]
B
Yeah. And I think it's so significant when we have this conversation about appearance, about the way that our bodies change, about kind of that humbling experience of recognizing you're not gonna be the one person in history who never has any effect on you from having become a mother. However that happens, we have to recognize that the Bible made it very clear that Jesus had no beauty in himself outwardly, that anyone should desire him for how he looked. That was not by accident. The Lord designed it that way because he knows that man looks on the outward appearance, but he's looking on the heart.
- [16:05]
A
That's exactly right. Next sponsor is EveryLife. EveryLife is America's pro life diaper company. Made with all clean materials, it's also the only diaper brand we use in our home because they really work. I would not be using them after all of these months if they weren't safe and effective. And I can tell you that they absolutely, absolutely are. Also, they have all of these other new, amazing products. I love their new belt bag. Their belt bag, you could use, like, a crossbody. I use it kind of like as a fanny pack when I'm walking. I mean, it's really good for, like, concealed carry. It's also good just to put your phone, maybe a little pepper blaster in there. Can you see that I care about self defense? They're making it easy and it's also super cute. And you're supporting a pro life company that's just trying to make amazing products for moms and their babies. We all need good places to be able to put all of the stuff that we need when we're out and about. This belt bag makes that super cute and super easy. If you go to everylife.com and use code ALI10, you'll get a discount on your order. These belt bags are made in the US super cute. Go to everylife.com code ali10. Okay, I want to look at this tick tock trend that I saw. It's a lot of young moms talking about what they look like pre pregnancy and how they feel and what they look like post pregnancy. This is SOP 5. Okay. So that is something that I've seen a lot of people do. They're showing the before and after. Most of them that I've seen, it seems like they're trying to communicate. This was really bad for me. This is really bad for my body. I don't think they're saying they don't love their babies, but I think they are saying watch out because this is gonna ruin your figure.
- [18:12]
B
Yep. Yeah, I've definitely seen a lot of this.
- [18:16]
A
Yeah. So what should the Christian message be to women like that? It's like, well, okay, but why? Why is it really worth it?
- [18:24]
B
Oh, so okay. I love that you're talking about this because in you bet your stretch marks I address almost this exact thing. Let me see if I can find the spot really quickly in a chapter called it's not destruction, it's development. And I think so much of the Christian life is a perspective shift. The Bible calls it renewing our minds, not just some sort of like self help. Like I'm going to think of it as a positive thing to wake up at 5am instead of, you know, I'm going to die from. From lack of sleep or. It's not just affirmations or some sort of like manifestation. It's the truth that when we renew our minds with scripture, it actually changes the way we view things and receive things that are happening to us. And so this whole chapter I started out saying similar to the uptick in chatter about child free living, a rising trend on social media is to talk about the complexity or nuance surrounding the question of whether to have children. And then it goes on to talk about this TikTok where the woman is kind of like contorting herself and like kind of making all these faces and fluttering Their hands. The idea is like women like, addressing the complexity of the thought of having children, because it can ruin your body, soul, and career. Or maybe not soul, but like your body, mind, and career, your personality could.
- [19:37]
A
Suck the life out of you.
- [19:38]
B
Absolutely. Your identity is gone. It's wholly taken up and wrapped up in this child. And the good thing about a Christian mom should be that she knows whose she is and that her identity is hidden with Christ in God. And so when you can think of it in those terms, like we've already talked about, like the idea of a tool, not a treasure. So that's a perspective shift, number one. But if you can think of it in terms of renewing your mind to run from this concept, that this is ruining you, but instead that it is transforming you into the likeness of Christ, who was not, we just said, an attractive person. He was not concerned with the outward appearance. So when we are being transformed into likeness, into the likeness of Christ, our loveliness and our beauty and our worth and our identity and the development of our minds and our souls are gonna be on a trajectory that's defined by heaven, not by TikTok. And ultimately, what you end up with is a much better definition of beauty and whether something is worth it. I actually go on in that chapter and talk about some really practical things that motherhood does for you.
- [20:50]
A
Yeah.
- [20:50]
B
When it changes our minds, when it changes our bodies, the way that it helps us manage our time, become more resilient. Studies that have been done that say that it minimizes your chances of multiple sclerosis, of Alzheimer's, of different kinds of cancer. Like, it's not just taking from you in any possible way. There are so many things that motherhood literally physically and mentally adds to your life as well.
- [21:12]
A
Yeah. Can we talk about that a little bit more? Because I could definitely give my list of the ways that I think that it has just practically made me a better and more efficient person. So many things.
- [21:25]
B
Yeah. So I used to deal with a great deal of self loathing for how I wasn't managing my time well. Was really hard on myself. And some of that was condemnation from Satan and some of it was Holy Spirit conviction, saying, you actually aren't managing this super well. You were ending the day frazzled and feeling like you got nothing done. Not simply because you have small children, but also because you did not. The main things. The main things today, Abby and the Mary, Martha.
- [21:54]
A
Exactly.
- [21:55]
B
And so. And it wasn't because I was worshiping at the feet of Jesus either. It was probably because I was Spending way too much time trying to find.
- [22:02]
A
Like, that you were Martha in this scenario.
- [22:05]
B
Maybe no, more like, just neither. More like, I should have gotten my dishes done, and I'm mad at myself that I didn't. But I also was trying to find a good deal on, like, a chair while we were building a house, you know, and. And I spent an hour on that, kind of obsessing over it. And then, okay, a good deal on a chair is worth only how much of your time. Right?
- [22:28]
A
Yeah.
- [22:28]
B
And then you end the day frustrated that you didn't order your time well. And I rarely end the day feeling that way anymore. Not because I'm some great machine of time, organization and productivity, but because I've grown in the maturity as I've had more children, because I've had to. If I didn't, things would be chaos in my home all the time. So I've had to learn. Learn how to be an expert at mom math, going, this is what I have in my day. I have to work backwards from there. I cannot scroll on my phone for an hour in the morning and expect to enter my day successfully. I also will have missed my quiet time with the Lord. We're not gonna call it quiet time. Time spent with God.
- [23:09]
A
Yeah, it doesn't have to be quiet. No, it does not. When you have kids, especially.
- [23:13]
B
Right. In fact, I think corporately reading to them is one of the best ways to get in God's word. And so that's a huge room for me. I have grown so much in time management. I think there's almost this thing that moms do nowadays on social media where they say I am actually worse at things and I know less than I used to. I think it's a form of false humility. I. I get that they're trying to say, I now know what I didn't know. You know, like, I recognize I'm not in control and. But sometimes it ends up coming across as, like, you know what? This hasn't helped me at all. And I'm worse than where I started off. And I don't find that to be personally true. And I don't find that to be true of the women that I admire. I feel like they're not going on bragging about how much better they are, but it's not bragging to simply say, man, the Lord did a number on me and I had to learn some things to not fall back in that hole over and over again. And my home is more peaceful as a result of it. I'm grateful for that that.
- [24:19]
A
Next sponsor is Cozy Earth, y'.
- [24:21]
B
All.
- [24:21]
A
We love Cozy Earth in our home. We love our sheets from Cozy Earth. They are topnotch. They are so soft, so temperature regulating, so luxurious feeling whenever I have to travel. I really miss my Cozy Earth sheets because they make the bedtime experience just so comfortable and good. But they don't just make amazing sheets, they also make towels. I. I am not joking. You like, I always have to have my Cozy Earth towels clean because I don't like any other towel. They've just spoiled me. I also love their loungewear. Their loungewear is so buttery, soft, so high quality, so good. They just make my life really comfy. They actually make getting up out of bed and out of my loungewear and into the studio very difficult. That's the only bone I have to pick with them. Other than that, no notes. It's so good. Go to co cozyearth.com use my code relatable for up to 40 off. That's cozyearth.com code relatable. Can you talk practically about some principles that you abide by to ensure that you're keeping the main things. The main things. And that you can feel at the end of the day like, yeah, I accomplished what the Lord needed me to accomplish today. Yeah.
- [25:40]
B
I feel like I'm really big. And people that have heard me talk on podcasts know that the next word I'm going to say is rhythms, if you can. I really encourage people to sit down and write down what they do on three days of the week, then start to notice patterns in the big things that emerge and then try to work backwards from that to see some strategies that would help them prioritize those things. Things. So for me, it's going to be God's word. It's going to be teaching my children, it's going to be exercise, it's going to be time spent with my family and it's going to be work. And so, you know, if I.
- [26:20]
A
Those are five things.
- [26:21]
B
Yeah. That doesn't mean that I am having coffee with friends that day. It probably can't. Right. I've ruled all those out. It doesn't mean that my house is perfectly clean. It doesn't mean that I'm completely caught up on laundry. But that's going to be in there somewhere. Because part of that's work. Right. I'm not saying all paid work. I'm saying sometimes it's just the work of running your home well.
- [26:42]
A
Yeah.
- [26:44]
B
And so at least four of those things probably are going to happen. Every single day when you see those rhythms. So, for example, one thing that I do, I get up in the morning, try to make sure I'm not looking at my phone, get sunlight in my eyes. Unless I absolutely have to answer something that's, that's immediate, I'm not looking at my phone. First thing, I have to walk through our laundry room to get downstairs. And so I either change out the load from the night before or put a load in and start one. Just because then it's going and I don't have to think about it. Right. I do have to think about it again later because we run more than one load of laundry a day at our house, for sure. But that's just a practical thing. Check. It took three minutes and I took it off my brain. And it's work. Like, that's the thing that I did. I go downstairs, I do my Bible reading, I start breakfast. I'll probably have some children with me helping with that. We'll do family Bible reading, then we're gonna start school. Each day is a little bit different, of course, but I've already hit quite a few of my top five rhythms in there. And, and then the one that I probably struggle with the most in this season of my life is rest. Like, I, I, I'm not the best at it at the moment. I'd like to be better, but sometimes I think there are seasons where the Lord just says, just keep going, like the rest is coming. And, and we do, we do rest on Sundays. Like, we don't, we don't schedule things on Sundays. We spend time together as a family. So I have that.
- [28:09]
A
Can you talk about that a little bit more? What does your Sabbath look like on Sunday?
- [28:12]
B
Yeah, so we get up and do the Sunday morning hustle to get everybody dressed and ready to go. Breakfast, eat, and all that stuff. Our church starts. Oh, well, Sunday school starts at 9:30, so. No, it starts at 9. We're probably closer to 9:30 when we get there. My husband's not a huge fan of small talk, so we're not even trying to get there exactly at nine. I wouldn't say we do the talking afterwards. Usually the one where they start flicking the lights like people leave the building. You can stop talking now.
- [28:40]
A
Yeah.
- [28:41]
B
So we do Sunday school in church. And then we will usually either go out to eat, which is controversial, believe it or not, because some people think that you should not make other people work on the Sabbath if they're thinking in terms of, like, more of an Old Testament perspective. And so we'll usually either go out to eat, or I will have something prepared at home, and we'll go home and eat. We take naps every single Sunday now.
- [29:02]
A
You don't have one.
- [29:03]
B
You don't have to sleep. You do have to do something quiet.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah.
- [29:07]
B
Especially the little kids. If my older kids want to go outside and play on our sport court like they can, that's their form of rest.
- [29:13]
A
And your young, your little boys, your twins are how old?
- [29:16]
B
They're four.
- [29:17]
A
Four.
- [29:17]
B
Yeah. And then. And they'll. They'll be five very soon. And then my oldest.
- [29:21]
A
Yeah.
- [29:22]
B
And everybody's about two years apart, unless they're seven or eight minutes apart in between. And then we will usually eat leftovers or we'll all pitch in for dinner on Sundays. So my husband might grill steaks while my kids help make sides. And one of my kids will make bread. Or I'll be doing something over here, making the guacamole while my older son is making the potatoes. And it's just very, you know, collaborative.
- [29:45]
A
Collaborative, yeah.
- [29:46]
B
And we'll watch something together as family. When All Creatures Great and Small is going. That's our Sunday night treat. Yeah, we love that series. Series. And then for a while there, I tried to implement. Sunday night was the one night everybody, including the older kids, like, had to be in their rooms by, like, a decent time. And honestly, just organically, we'd rather spend time with our older kids. Like, I was like, I just need, like, to reset. And my husband was like, yeah, but I'm leaving on a work trip tomorrow, so can they stay up? And so I realized I was imposing something on my family that wasn't serving us.
- [30:19]
A
Us.
- [30:19]
B
So I just gave it up. And we just hang out.
- [30:22]
A
Yeah. And everyone sits down together for dinner. I'm guessing maybe not for breakfast and lunch every day, but for dinner every day. That's a priority for y'.
- [30:32]
B
All. That is a big priority. It's not every day anymore with older children in the house. I think being flexible about those things is key because we have already established that as a really strong priority in our home. And our older kids, if they have games or work, are going to be there, like, anytime that they can. So it's more often than not. Um, but, yeah, most evenings, everybody. Now, it's funny, because we have a dining room table and I have a rug under it, and people are like, how in the world does the rug stay clean? One it doesn't. I think Instagram just. I mean, like, without even, like, without even, like, trying to make it look cleaner. The picture just makes it look cleaner. You know, it has plenty of junk on it. But we also don't eat at the dining room table every night. We eat around our giant kitchen island. It's just a habit. Like, we all pull up stools and we're around this 12 foot by 5 foot island almost every night. That's what we do.
- [31:21]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did have a rug under our kitchen table. And then I was like, why did. Why am I, you know, I have little ones? And I was like, it really doesn't add anything. And so that rug went bye bye. And it's made my life a lot easier.
- [31:35]
B
This was not the Woody rug, was it?
- [31:36]
A
Not the Woody rug. It was from Ruggable. You know, my husband and I just remembered that the other day. That cracked me up because we started talking about our runner. If people don't know this story, we have like a runner in the front of our house. The reason we started talking about it is because my 6 year old was asking if she can make a slip and slide in our house. And we were like, no. And. But then we started thinking about that. And if people don't know, I ordered this rug from Ruggable that was a neutral rug. I did not see that it was a Toy Story themed rug.
- [32:07]
B
Seriously, why would it be a Toy Story themed rug when it was cream?
- [32:10]
A
I don't even make sense. How did I not see that? I don't know. But I got it and I looked at it. I was like, is that Woody? And it was like, Woody with a lasso. Yes. Whatever. The girl is Jesse, Jessie. And yeah, the designs are actually Woody's lasso. And I did send it back and I got a great, like, regular rug. But yes. I don't even know. I guess we were just talking about rugs underneath the table.
- [32:35]
B
Yeah.
- [32:35]
A
And silly things.
- [32:36]
B
And for some people, it's worth it. And some people like me, aesthetically, I want that under there. And if we trash it, we trash it. Like, yeah, I'll scrub it.
- [32:43]
A
Right. Okay. Something that you were talking about a few minutes ago about moms who go on social media and they say, you know, I don't know as much anymore, or you hear about mom brain a lot. So I was reading about this the other day that when you become pregnant and after you're pregnant, especially in those early years, that the gray matter in your brain reduces. However, that this is not responsible for being more forgetful or anything like that. That's probably just people are tired and they have more Responsibilities. It actually is a process. You might already know this called synaptic refinement, when your brain is being refined and adapted to focus on the things that you really need to focus on. So you talk about that. I'll let you fit. I'll let you keep going on that.
- [33:31]
B
So it's this concept that the centers of our brain that are required for executive function, orderliness, and for time management and for productivity actually become prioritized. God designed women to do this, which is why when someone hears that you, as a mom with three small children, get this, this, and this done in a day, and if they don't have children, they can't imagine doing such a thing. One, it's probably just they don't have the urgency of, I have to get this done because nap time is almost over. That's. That's a really good motivator, right?
- [34:03]
A
Yeah.
- [34:04]
B
And two, there actually might be something different about their brain that hasn't changed that way yet in, I mean, if they become a mom.
- [34:11]
A
And C.S. lewis used to say that worrying is picturing the future without God's grace in it.
- [34:16]
B
Oh, that's good.
- [34:17]
A
And that is the same thing without, with, like, anxiety or fear. We discount the fact that God is suspended in the eternal now. So his grace in his presence and His Holy Spirit is always in the now. It's not in this future place, which doesn't actually exist. God actually exists, so he can't exist in a place that doesn't exist. And so that, like, worry. And you're thinking, I could never do that, or that person's going through that, or they're suffering or sacrificing. I could never do that. Well, God's Holy Spirit is going to prepare you for the things that he has for you.
- [34:49]
B
Absolutely. I talk about that in here, too. Not just with how your brain works or how it might do something, but I say basically that when we dread a certain stage of our children's lives, whether it's becoming teenagers, which I love teenagers, so please don't dread that, or toddlerhood, when they, you know, the terrible twos or the three nager, or whatever they want to throw at you, or newborn or preteens, whatever stage someone has vilified, when we dread that, it adds nothing to our experience, and it takes away a great deal of our confidence in the Lord's sovereignty. It takes a great deal away of our hope for a good future. And like Psalm 27:13 is one of my favorite, I'm confident of this. I will still see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. You're still living. Your kids are still living. You're going to see the Lord's goodness in every stage and age. And even if it does come to pass that you have a teenager that does every single thing that social media tells you they're going to, you're worrying about it leading up to it will not have made you better at this.
- [35:51]
A
Right.
- [35:51]
B
It won't have prepared you. It will simply have made you like white knuckling your way through it instead of trusting God. So, yeah, I love that C.S. lewis quote.
- [36:00]
A
That's good. Yeah, I might have. I don't know if that's an exact quote or a paraphrase, but definitely that concept is from Him. Next sponsor is Constitution Wealth. If you want to truly have financial peace, it's not just about how much money you have. It's also about how you're investing your money, how you are managing your money. And you just can't necessarily trust any old financial institution to help you do that in a way that glorifies God. But when you work with a company that has your same values, you know that you share the same same goals of advancing God's kingdom of being generous, of being a really good and godly steward with what you are given. And that's what you're going to get. When you work with Constitution wealth through wise planning, generous giving, faithful stewardship, something beautiful really happens. You find freedom from money script and you find joy in God's provision, whatever that provision looks like, so you can discover what what faithful stewardship looks in your life by working with Constitution Wealth. Get a free consultation. Just talk to them. See if it's right for you. By going to constitutionwealth.com ally constitution wealth is a registered investment advisor. You should review Constitution Wealth's disclosures@constitutionwealth.com to understand their services and fees. All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss. This is a paid endorsement. Okay? Speaking of worry, there is a phobia that I had never heard of before that is apparently going around on social media motivating women either to not get pregnant or to try to hire a surrogate. And it's called tokophobia, which Tokos is Greek for mother. So that actually would mean like fear of motherhood. But I think it specifically applied to birth. And there's someone talking about it on Tick Tock, I think. Is it SOP 4 okay, stop 4 Can I just be honest with y' all for a second? The only reason why I Don't wanna have a child because I am scared to give birth.
- [38:13]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [38:14]
A
That's so embarrassing to say because I know, like, obviously, oh, you're. You know, our body is made for that. But I'm scared. Like, am I the only one who feel like that about childbirth? Okay, so I saw this other post by someone that I follow of an email she got. She said, I have been formally diagnosed by a psychiatrist with tokaphobia, which makes it impossible for me to undergo pregnancy and childbirth. Is this a justification for surrogacy? So I don't think that that woman on Tick Tock, that's a separate person, but I don't think she should be embarrassed. I think it's normal.
- [38:47]
B
Oh, absolutely. I talk about. I have all my birth stories on my podcast because, I don't know, people just eat those.
- [38:52]
A
Open slowly. I love that. Oh, I need to go listen to those. I love birth stories.
- [38:55]
B
Well, there's a lot on there because I've had a lot of babies and with my number eight. So back up to number seven. And I typically had these long, pokey labors, like, from start to finish. Starting contraction that never ends to finish is like anywhere between 20 and 40 hours. Yeah.
- [39:09]
A
Wow.
- [39:10]
B
And so I ended up having water breaking with number seven. But then my body just. Just, like, was like, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. And then it finally was, and in three hours, I had him. So I'd been in labor on and off for a while, but then, like, the really hard part was three hours, tons of back labor. Had never had back labor that strongly before. And I was in a tub, and I remember my husband trying to pull me out and my. I couldn't talk. Which normally between contractions, even when they're really intense, like, once they've waned, you can ask for water. You can make a joke.
- [39:38]
A
You're like a new person.
- [39:40]
B
Yes. I. I could not utter words in between these contractions. They were on top of each other. I. The only thing I could do was pray, Lord, please take the next one because I cannot do this anymore. Keep in mind, this is my seventh baby. I've already done this. And one time, two babies in a row, right?
- [39:56]
A
No C sections, by the way.
- [39:57]
B
No, no C sections. Which. I mean, praise God for that miracle.
- [40:01]
A
Yes.
- [40:02]
B
Amazing.
- [40:02]
A
You just didn't have that.
- [40:03]
B
I didn't. So I have this baby, and I've never had a baby come out of me without pushing before. But, like, my body was in the throes. Of course, the moment he's out, everything's great. I feel so much better. I'm good.
- [40:19]
A
Yeah.
- [40:19]
B
Until I am a couple weeks out from having number eight and I start having significant anxiety in the evenings as the sun goes down. And it was going down early because he was born in January, February. The sun goes down, I start to like a vice is on my chest and I start to be shallow breathing. So I was reading scripture cards every single night. This is my number eight. And what's, what's the thing called Tokophobia. And I have tocophobia. I mean, I am like, I can't do this again. Like, I can't. And I actually had the closest thing. I don't know that I would call it a full blown panic or anxiety attack, but I had the closest thing I've ever had where I woke up contracting in the middle of the night, which I'd been doing for weeks. And then it would stop those really strong contractions. Woke up in the middle of a contraction and could not catch my breath. My heart started racing and I had to like slap my husband and be like not, you know, not like whack across the. But like slap my hand at him to wake him up and say, I need, I need you to like compression, hug me and pray out loud and just. It took minutes to calm down. So as someone who's given birth a lot and knows I'm perfectly capable of it, I've. I've never had to go to a C section. Praise God. It still can be really scary. But I think the problem is that the mindset that is feeding this is hard things are bad things.
- [41:44]
A
Right. That's what I was about to say.
- [41:46]
B
Hard is not the same thing as bad. That's my second book.
- [41:48]
A
Scary is not the same thing as bad.
- [41:49]
B
That's true. Sometimes it can be. But sometimes it's just understandable that we would fear, but that it gives us an opportunity to cast our fear on the one who is courage himself.
- [42:03]
A
Yeah, our. Our sermon in church this past Sunday was on Psalm 23. And most of you out there know that, but if you don't, it's about the Lord being our good shepherd. And there's just so much within that passage of God being a good shepherd that gives us protection, that gives us provision that doesn't necessarily lead us around the valley of the shadow of death. It's through the valley of the shadow of death. It doesn't mean there will be no more predators. There will. That doesn't mean that we'll have no enemy, that there will be no danger. All of those can exist, but God leads us through it. And also, this is maybe an aside that I'm not sure if it totally applies here, but one part that stuck out to me this time, that had never stuck out to me, one verse says, surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And so we've got God as our shepherd leading us, but then what is coming in from behind? Goodness and mercy. And if something is following us, we don't always see what it's doing because it's behind us. And yet it is completing the good work that God has set out for us. And so I think when we're picturing birth or picturing pregnancy, and I'm even, you know, talking to myself, I have a lot of fear surrounding all of that. Having done it three times already, it's like I can trust that God is a good shepherd, that he's going to lead me where he wants to lead me. Not that it's going to be perfect or easy. And also that his goodness and his mercy will follow me and will accomplish in and through and behind and around me everything that God wants them to accomplish.
- [43:33]
B
Yeah. And that it's going to look as he plans because sometimes it doesn't look like goodness and mercy on the front end. You know, I always, always joke that people are like, okay, you've done all these natural births and no pain meds or whatever and home or hospital, both. Okay, so I've done all of it. So my, my first was born in. I didn't really even know anything about home birth, but I did it without pain meds and I was kind of strapped to a bed. Like, not actually, but like, I couldn't get up. I wasn't. I think I was maybe hooked up to some sort of monitors.
- [44:07]
A
Yeah.
- [44:08]
B
And I thought my back would break because I was doing labor on my back in a bed without pain meds. And I felt like a crazy person. And so the second was like, never want to do that again. I need to be able to move. And so I had him at home, third at home. My best birth, once it finally kicked in, it was two days of stop start nonsense. But once it finally kicked in, my best birth was my first set of twins. And they were at home. And like the closest thing to a painless birth I've ever had. It was uncomfortable, but like the intense, like, yeah, can't do this anymore, Lord, didn't really have any of that. They both came really well. And then my number six and seven Were at home. Eight ended up in. That was the one that I had so much anxiety over. The coolest thing about that story is that I'm on a. I have a sonogram on my belly. I'm 42 weeks in three days. I always go long.
- [44:57]
A
Me too.
- [44:58]
B
I know we've talked about this. It's like, man, they like to cook, and I am dead to the world. I'm so emotionally and physically and mentally and spiritually exhausted. I'm like, staring in the corner while the sonographer tries to make jokes. And I am just, like, dead. And my midwife was trying to reach me because I'm normally not like this at all, obviously. And. And she said, what if you had him here? I literally started having contractions. My body was like, I can't go back home and have this baby. So I just didn't leave. I had him at the birth center, and it was a great birth. And then my last two were in the hospital because it was Covid and they had to be. But, yeah, I've done it all.
- [45:36]
A
You've done it all. Yeah. And so for the woman who is fearful, who maybe she's already pregnant, or maybe the woman who is scared to get pregnant because of all that could happen, like. Like, if you had her in front of you right now and you only had a few seconds to talk to her, what would you say?
- [45:52]
B
I would say that baby is worth every single contraction, every single aching hip, every single stretched out boob. Like, it's worth all of it. It is an eternal soul that you get to actually shepherd and guide and invest in, who will then go on and hopefully do that for future generations. What could be better than that?
- [46:14]
A
Yeah, and it's such a gospel metaphor, too, because we have our own stretch marks. If you're a biological mom, you might have stretch marks of the body. If you're an adoptive mom or a foster mom, like, you've got stretch marks of the heart and the soul and your will and the self, by the way. But it's a metaphor for the gospel because, like, by Jesus's stripes, we are healed by the stripes that we saw on his outward body. We can look to that and we see. See healing like, we see our justification and salvation. And I'm not saying that moms are the same thing as Jesus, but we learn so much about how suffering and sacrifice and different kinds of stripes do lead to the birth of life, like a new person, a new creation and growth and nourishment.
- [47:03]
B
And we may not be Jesus. We are not for sure.
- [47:06]
A
Yes.
- [47:07]
B
There's no question there. There's no may, not not, but we will be quite likely the, the most constant and obvious representation of Jesus love for our children. To our children, which is really sobering.
- [47:23]
A
Yeah.
- [47:23]
B
So no, we cannot save our children, but we can show them the gospel in the way that we love them and sacrifice ourselves for them just like Christ did for us.
- [47:30]
A
Totally. And if you're someone who has had a traumatic birth already, I remember I had had, for I had two C sections and then I had a VBAC with my third baby. And I remember I had a physical therapist and my third who was getting me ready for birth. And I was talking to her about like I was just really struggling mentally with having had two C sections and difficult postpartum and all of that. And she just reminded me, and this meant so much to me because I never thought about it. She was like, I was like, yeah, you know, I still feel pain on my scar and that bothers me because it's been two years. It scares me. And she was like, I just want to remind you that like, like that scar will be healed in heaven. And I was like, I had never thought about that. Like, I never thought about it as like a real injury that like God really cares about and is going to heal. Yeah. And has like redemption eternally. I almost had the feeling like, well, you know, you have healthy babies, you shouldn't even care about that. But the truth is, is like you're not discounting or dismissing the pain. You're saying that God is doing something good in it. Yeah.
- [48:32]
B
I don't think, think that we serve moms by gaslighting them into pretending that hard things don't impact every aspect of ourselves. That is the one thing that I think that the tick tick tockers are getting right. It will affect you, but if you are surrendered to Christ, it will be a completely different outcome than they're claiming that it will be.
- [48:57]
A
Next sponsor is Preborn. If you are looking for a way to be involved in the pro life movement, if you want to put your money, your treasure, not just where your mouth is, but where your heart is, then it's time to donate to Preborn. This is the organization that is supplying pregnancy centers across the country with the tools and the resources they need to serve the pregnant women that come through their doors. So with sonogram equipment, with all of the different tools that they need to make sure that these women are well equipped to make the life affirming choice. And that's why Preborn exists to breathe life into these life saving pregnancy centers. But they can only do that with your help if you donate $28. Or maybe you can commit to just donating 28amonth. That is every month donating the cost of a free sonogram for a pregnant woman in need. So every single month you could be saving the life of an unborn image bearer of God by donating just $28. Go to preborn.com ally make your commitment to that donation today. Go to preborn.com alli so what else do you talk about in your book that you really want moms to hear?
- [50:17]
B
I want moms to hear what I just mentioned a little while ago, that your actual thing that you're doing is not surviving today. It is setting yourself up for children who have been loved and invested in with the word of God who then have the opportunity to view parenthood as a positive thing because of your influence. Do that for their own children. Who then do that for their own children. This is a biblical principle. It's not just in the, you know, creation mandate, going out and subduing the earth and dominion and filling the earth. A lot of people, especially when you have a lot of kids like I do, are like, well, you're just trying to fulfill some sort of Old Testament antiquated thing. You just, you know, didn't you know how to stop when you were ahead or quiverful theology. Yeah, that's right. Quiverful theology. Don't you know what causes that and all that stuff? And it's like, well, I mean, I probably just as surprised as anybody that I have 10 kids. Like the Lord did that. I didn't do that. But you are planting seeds. The Bible says, you know, Paul plants Apollo's waters, God brings the harvest. But you are looking forward to a harvest. You're not just potty training a kid, you're loving him. Well, while you do that incredibly maddening process because it can be sometimes. Yeah, I was just doing reading with my 6 year old yesterday and it was pain staking. It is more so for some kids than others. And so sometimes you just, they drop that first letter on the word and so you sit, right. So it's. And you're like, yeah, there was an S. You know.
- [51:55]
A
Yeah.
- [51:56]
B
That process is not just getting your child to the point of being able to comprehend words and, and sound them out. It's giving him a tool to understand the gospel better. He can read his Bible once he's. And all of that effort that you've put in has an obvious harvest right there.
- [52:10]
A
Yeah.
- [52:11]
B
That every kid who learns to read will. Will receive.
- [52:13]
A
Yes.
- [52:14]
B
And then beyond that, you're giving him the ability to then read it to his children after him. So I have a whole chapter. My mentor, one of my best friends, Jennifer Flanders, who has 12 kids of her own, she's about 20 years ahead of me, said her favorite chapter in this book is chapter 10, and it's mothering with a legacy mindset. My mom. So at the end of every one of my chapters, I invited 13 godly gone before Titus, two women to contribute to the end of them. Every single one of them said yes. Which I felt like was the Lord ordaining it because, you know, my schedule doesn't allow. I'm not really interested in that. I don't want, you know, every single one said, I'd be happy to and they were the right people for this job. And so my mom contributes to the end of chapter 10. That's my friend Jennifer, who also contributes favorite. And she said, I picture you on a white horse with a banner that has some sort of symbol of motherhood on it, charging back and forth saying, don't grow weary of doing good. And even if you have, look to the Lord for strength, because your work matters now, it matters tomorrow, and it matters for generations to come. Don't let anyone ever denigrate or diminish the that this is incredible in what you can accomplish for your own soul with Christ. Because, by the way, if you don't accomplish some sort of generational legacy of Christianity, if you have obeyed God, it is still worth it. But also, you are setting your children up with incredible tools and a foundation that is set on Christ alone. And that, I mean, only you can do that really well. I mean, the best, the best. There's all kinds of other resources, but you are uniquely gifted by God to do that, and that's huge.
- [53:46]
A
Okay. With this antinatalism push that's out there right now, kids are burdens. They're getting in the way of travel schedules and all of that. If you were to give someone an elevator pitch for why they should have. Why they should have kids. I mean, you've done that pretty well already. But what would be the summary of what would you. What would you say? They're married, they're considering having kids, but they're afraid it's going to change their life a lot. What would your pitch be?
- [54:11]
B
It's going to change your life a lot. And you want it, too, because quite likely, if you continue with the Focus being on what something is going to take from you rather than what it's going to add to you. It will be a self fulfilling prophecy. You will not have those things added to your life. Whether they be more time management, whether it be more self discipline, whether it be the joy of living for someone else and cheering for them. Even if it's not your own personal victory. I mean, how cool is that as a parent that we get to say, I love lost sleep over this, I'm in pain because of this, whatever, but I am seeing them succeed. I tell this story in the book about how my son Simon made his first three pointer after the night before. He said he couldn't and I essentially gave him the bomb talk and I said, yes, you can if you keep practicing. Not you can do anything you want to be, anything you dream big, nothing like that. Just be consistent, stay in it. And I got to watch him make the ugliest three pointer you have ever seen in your life. And he turned around. This is a core memory of my life. Turned around and raced back down the court and he pointed at me and like you told me I could do this and I started crying and screaming like a crazy person and I still do. One of the best moments of my life that I would never have had if I didn't have my son, but also if I didn't give up some of my personal comfort and going to these practices and these games because sure, it's fun to watch them, but it's a lot of work to get kids places and to do things for them and to pay for things and so sure, okay, yeah, you would actually gain a lot of me time, a trimmer waistline, more money in your bank, but you can't take any of it to heaven with you. And I can't guarantee I can take my children to heaven with me. But there's a chance.
- [55:59]
A
Yeah.
- [56:00]
B
And I am banking on it.
- [56:02]
A
And everything done in the life of the believer for the glory of God. Blood echoes in eternity.
- [56:09]
B
Amen.
- [56:09]
A
So. And by the way, there is nothing better than the feeling of the dead weight of a baby's head on your shoulder. There's like.
- [56:16]
B
That is so true.
- [56:17]
A
I mean I, I guess I could say, I can't say there's nothing better in the world than that because there's lots of things that God calls different Christians in different seasons.
- [56:26]
B
You're allowed to have that opinion. Just state it.
- [56:29]
A
It is one of the best. Absolutely things. I mean everybody every time still like, you know, my almost two year old When I'm rocking her to sleep every night, she's got her head on my shoulder. I'm like, dude, there is nothing better.
- [56:41]
B
My husband always says I better be like within access to everything that I need not to die. Because I'm not moving until like if they never, if they just keep sleeping forever, I'm not getting off this couch. There's a baby on my chest. I love it.
- [56:53]
A
It is the best.
- [56:54]
B
It is.
- [56:55]
A
So let me just tell you that. Let me encourage you with that, Abby. Thank you so much. Okay, your book is out. Which day?
- [57:01]
B
September 2nd.
- [57:02]
A
September 2nd. Really soon. People can pre order now, I'm assuming.
- [57:06]
B
And please pre order.
- [57:07]
A
Yes, please pre order wherever books are sold. Then when you pre order, you can guarantee it's going to get to your front door right away. Yes.
- [57:13]
B
And Christianbook.com right now has 40% off and free shipping, which is like the best deal you're going to get.
- [57:18]
A
Do it.
- [57:19]
B
Plus, I have, I've created an ebook for all three of my books each time and offered it as a pre order offer. Like when you're pre ordering and then afterwards it goes for sale. So I. One of my biggest resources that people have asked for is all of the scripture in my books categorized. We did not pull that off because I think in one book alone there's 187 scriptures. Yeah, but there are over 100 scriptures categorized for easy reference when you're anxious, when you're struggling with discernment. It's called the well Versed Mama. And you can get that for free when you pre order.
- [57:50]
A
Okay. Okay, awesome. So we'll put the link so people can pre order cushionbook.com and, and Amazon. If you want to do that, then that's fine. Okay. Abby, thank you so much.
- [57:59]
B
Thank.
- [58:18]
A
You.