A (2:50)

Okay, tell me. No, you gotta go into detail. How did you.

B (2:53)

I guess I never told you.

A (2:54)

You saw him, and was it kind of like love at first sight or you're just like, oh, that guy's handsome. When did you know?

B (3:01)

I knew about. I knew about at the end of the evening that we met. And it was November 12, 2024, in Nashville, Tennessee. I was at a charity event for veterans. I had gone with a friend who. Whose husband couldn't come. So I was everybody's favorite plus one at that point. I'm like, yes, I'll be your plus one. I don't have a life or a date, so I'll go. I just sent my youngest off to college, so I was, you know, lonely and just happy to go, keep myself really busy. And went to this charity, especially because my dad's a vet and I grew up in army life. And we're at the cocktail hour just waiting for the dinner to start. It's called Tomahawk Charities. And it's wonderful, if anybody's wondering. And he walks up to me. Hi, my name is Dave. And we have something in common. And I'm thinking, I roll. What cheesy line is this one gonna give me? You know? And he said, our mothers have known each other for more than 30 years.

A (4:01)

Wow.

B (4:02)

And our dads were stationed together at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, army officers back in the early 90s. And our mothers volunteered at a convent for retired nuns in Leavenworth, Kansas.

A (4:12)

Oh, okay.

B (4:12)

In like, 1993. And have stayed in touch despite moving across the country since 93. And.

A (4:19)

And you didn't know him at all?

B (4:21)

Never knew. I'm three years older. Full disclosure. And so I was in college when he was in high school in Kansas. And I didn't live live in Kansas because of that, so we had never met. But when I asked, when he said the story, I mean, I knew about the convent and the nuns. I mean, they were a major part of our family's life. One nun in particular, Sister Charles Marie. And so I was like, what's your last name? And he told me, and I'm like, oh, I know of your mother and the family. And so then the dinner started. And I'm looking around. Cause he's tall and handsome. Yes. And I'm like, who?

A (4:54)

Where is he?

B (4:55)

He was cute. Let me make sure that. Put the lights up and make Sure. I still think he's cute. And later that night, there was like, a, you know, a little post party downtown Nashville with this charity. And he said he was gonna show up. I'm the one that asked him. I was like, so you're going to the post party? And he said, yep. He says, well, I am now. Yeah, after I asked. So we started chatting, and Ali, it was two to three hours straight. It was like no one else was in the room. It literally is so cheesy, but, like, no one else is in the room. And it hit me about halfway through, and something like the butterflies hit. And we had a lot in common and, you know, some tough conversations about both of our divorces. I have three kids. He has two kids. The effects of that, the disappointment in ourselves and just the. The difficulty that that is. And we bonded over that. And obviously, the military, like, he's a. He's a former. Former army officer as well. He served a tour in Iraq. And it just hit me, and I had to excuse myself. I was like, I'll be right back. And I took this deep breath, and I came back over, and he was in the restroom. And my girlfriend, who brought me there, she looked at me and she's like, you're gonna marry him. Don't screw it up. Oh, my goodness. No pressure. Yeah. And I looked at her, I was like, I know.

A (6:17)

The first night.

B (6:18)

Yeah. And I don't know that it was as immediate for him, but close. And I went home to the hotel, and the next morning, I woke up to my mom calling me. And she said, did you meet Dave Barbuto? And I said, yeah, what the heck? How do you know? She said, his mom called me. So he texted his mom, his mom texted my mom, my mom texted me. And that was November 12th, and we got engaged on April 12th, and we got married on September 5th.

A (6:49)

Oh, my goodness.

B (6:50)

And is it fast? Yes. Was I afraid of judgment at times from friends, friends, family, strangers? Yes, I was. And then it's like, who cares? Like, I know this is my person for many reasons beyond his charm and good look, it was so much deeper than that immediately. So it's been very emotional. It hasn't even been a year. Very emotional because I didn't know it would ever happen again. And when you know, you know.

A (7:27)

Quick pause to tell you about our first sponsor for the day, and that is Seven Weeks Coffee. I'm so excited to see Seven Weeks tomorrow at Share the Arrows. They're such an amazing company, not only because they make really high quality coffee. Clean, organic, pesticide free coffee that is sustainably sourced and ethically raised and all of that good stuff. But also because they donate 10% of every sale of their coffee to pregnancy centers across the country and because you guys have allowed your coffee to serve this higher purpose, they have been able to donate over $1 million to these life saving pregnancy centers across the nation. That's amazing. That has translated into saving thousands of babies just because you have opted to purchase 7 weeks coff subscribe. Get that box of coffee to your front door every month. You save 15 when you do that. Plus when you use my code ally, you save an extra 10%. Go to 7weeks Coffee.com code Alli. 7weeks Coffee.com code alli. And so tell me what it was like going into a dating relationship. I think it was five years after you got a divorce. Y' all both have grown kids. It's different than dating the first time around when you're in your 20s or whatever. Obviously you're not messing around.

B (8:46)

Yeah.

A (8:46)

You're not just trying to see what's out there. It's a lot more serious. Both because of how you are feeling, but also because of your life situation.

B (8:55)

Yeah.

A (8:55)

So what was it like when y' all first started dating? Those conversations to determine, okay, is this person really the one that I want to spend the rest of my life with?

B (9:05)

Some very deep conversations that were immediate and I loved that he lived in Tennessee, I lived in Florida. So it was all on the phone. And I actually am so grateful for that because there's nothing else that gets in the way. Nervousness to go out to dinner, what do I wear? You know, any physical tension or whatever where you're like, okay, it was just conversation. And the first conversation we had was 48 hours after we met. And I was driving from south Florida up to North Florida to visit my parents. And it was five hours in the car and we were texting. I was voice texting, okay, mom, not texting while driving. I was voice texting while driving. And then it was like, isn't it easier if we just talk? And so for the final four hours of that five hour drive, we went everywhere and talked about everything. And it was so easy. And I actually didn't want that long drive to end because of it. And so conversation is everything. And I hadn't dated much at all.

A (10:07)

Yeah.

B (10:07)

In those five years. And I actually had married my first boyfriend. So when I was 20 is when I met my ex husband and married at 26, 27 and married until 47. So I literally did not know how to date the one guy I dated in between divorce and meeting Dave. I remember when I was texting him back something, I was sitting next to my daughter at the time. She was probably 20. She's 23 now. And she looked at me, she's like, is that what you're texting him? And I was like, well, yeah. She's like, ugh, give me that. So she took the phone and she rewrote it. And then she goes, now, wait an hour. And she put it down. And I'm like, I don't know this world. I don't know how to date. I've never dated, and I don't like this world.

A (10:55)

The games, the games.

B (10:57)

And I'm too old for this. Like, what are we doing? So the conversations were really beautiful from the beginning. And because I was, you know, so much older, I just thought, what the heck? Like, let's not hold back and just be super honest. And if he likes me, great. And if he doesn't, then he wasn't meant to be. And we went deep really, really, really fast. And I do want to share this, though, because I've just started to share this a couple times publicly. But there was a real turning point in that journey where you say, okay, I'm single. Fine. I'll go on a date here or there, if someone sets me up or whatever. And so I was saying yes. And then I went on a really awful date on New Year's Eve. 23. Going into 24. Like, I knew it going in. It was so stupid. And I was. I live at the beach in Florida, and I did my normal beach walk, and when I came back, I was in full workout clothes, and I just walked in into the Atlantic Ocean. People watching probably, like, keep an eye on this one. She looks like she's.

A (12:05)

What's going on?

B (12:06)

What is she doing? She can't walk on water. What is this? And, yeah, full workout clothes. And I just walked out there and I just started praying, and I literally, like, opened my arms, which Catholics we don't do. Right? You just do this. And I just was like, lord, I just felt so dumb and defeated for having wasted my time, even though it wasn't. It's never a waste of time. And I said, lord, please don't bring me anybody until you bring me somebody. And make it really obvious, because I'm kind of an idiot. And that was January 1, 2024, when I say it was like, silence until November 12, nothing. Wow. Praise God. And, yeah, at that moment, when I Look back, everything changed. It took nine, 10 months to meet Dave, but everything in my life changed because I believe now it was really the first time I gave up control and let go and just let God. And it's such a cliche and saying, let go, let God. Well, I finally did at 51, and look what happened. So it was also. I think that's why the conversations just flowed and I didn't hold anything back. And when he asked me one night on one of our marathon phone call sessions what was really important to me, what are the qualities I need in a man in a relationship? And the first thing I said was someone to walk this faith journey with me because I didn't want to do it alone, and I needed help. I wanted a partner to discuss these things with and ask questions and come up with answers on her own and fail and get back up. And I knew when I said it, it was going to be a game changer, because if he wasn't into that, then I finally knew I wasn't going to settle. Not that I had settled before in my first marriage. I just wasn't there yet. It wasn't as much of a priority that it needed to be. I thought it was, but in hindsight it wasn't. And maybe things would have been different had it been, but it wasn't meant to be for whatever reason. And when I said faith number one, he kind of chuckled because it was for him too. And I think, oh, my gosh, what if I hadn't said that? Like, there's just been so many blessings that have come from this.

A (14:27)

Yeah. From being totally honest.

B (14:28)

Totally.

A (14:29)

And you were still, in that moment, surrendering. You still weren't in control, and you were acting out of a place of surrender that, okay, this is what I believe, this is what I hold dear. And, and this is gonna be make or break. And if it's break, it's okay. It's gonna be hard, but it's okay. And that's, like, a very freeing place to be, but a hard place to get to for those of us who really like to try to control the outcomes.

B (14:56)

And I don't believe I was ever a control freak. Maybe early on as a mom, a very young mom, and trying to be the perfect everything, and you fail at trying to, you know, have perfection as your goal. Um, but I, I, I can't believe what has happened since I completely let go. But I think when you do try to control that part, the relationship part, I was trying to protect myself. Yeah, I was protecting myself from Getting hurt again. And that was me putting myself in situations to get hurt. Right, Right. As well as any man or woman who's been divorced. You're gonna protect yourself cause you're afraid, oh my gosh, I don't wanna make this mistake again. And especially when you have children. So I think I was very closed off in many ways in order to protect. And I remember my body language at times where I can look back and I physically felt myself doing this and tightening up. And it's like, wow, when you can take a step outside of yourself in that bird's eye view, when you watch yourself do that like fetal positional. It's so sad. It's so scary. So I know now that that's why I wasn't ever fully letting go.

A (16:19)

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B (17:43)

Reminding myself, first of all that it is a journey and that I will never have it all figured out. I was raised Catholic and always like really proud Catholic, you know, And I am proud of my upbringing because it was beautiful in every way. And we went to mass every Sunday and CCD and Sunday school and all the sacraments. But I, I listen. I mean, I, I still consider myself Catholic, but I am figuring out so much more and asking questions about things that I think are missing from Catholicism for so many of us. I guess I can just speak for myself and for my husband, where we both are like, gosh, we were never really encouraged to dig deep in the Bible. So I didn't realize that as much until the last few years when I, you know, have stepped away from my previous life and career as a sportscaster and just focusing on, yes, God and going to church. But, okay, I have this. But, you know, the decision, frankly, to get divorced was a huge journey in my faith, which might sound weird to some, but it was. I felt like I asked for signs and I got permission, very clear from God. And then the decision to stand up for myself at work when I worked at ESPN and Disney involved a lot of prayer. And every time I relied on God, he gave me really clear answers. And so the journey is that, wow, Sage, you dummy, if you just give it up and ask for guidance, you really get it. I have gotten it. And so it's just continued to build and build and build. And today, you know, Dave and I did not get married in the Catholic Church because we're not allowed to. If you're divorced and choose not to annul your marriage, you're not allowed to go back and get married in the Catholic Church. And I don't know all the meaning behind that, but I disagree with it because even though it did not last, there were beautiful times and moments and I have three awesome kids that we created. And to annul it by saying that that means it didn't exist, it didn't happen. It happened. I would never deny that. Why would I? I had 20 lovely years with this man that produced my babies. And so to cast it off like it didn't exist, I don't care to know more about it because I moved on from it, but that's why I didn't get married in the Catholic Church. And so we did a non denominational ceremony and incorporated scripture and prayer into it with the officiant, who's a dear friend of mine, Chris Harrison, who said how much it honored him, that he finally has a bride and groom who wants to include that in their non denominational ceremony. Like, how crazy is that, right? So every day we start, whether we're in the same state or not, we really are working very hard to be. While he has kids in Tennessee and I have kids in three different states, in college and in the workforce now with our daily reading. And it starts with a scripture and then is, you know, a story and a description and ends with a prayer at the end. And it's like, okay, we do it, and one of us reads it to the other and we break it down and what does it mean and how can we apply it? How could we have applied it better yesterday or whatever day and going forward? And there's some accountability with that. And I know that I need that. I need the accountability. I need the partner and someone to say, hey, I know that we're really busy today and you have a zoom in 15 minutes that you committed to, but we need to do this, and I do the same for him. So there's just. I don't know. It was such a private journey for me before, and I hate that. So now maybe I'm trying to make up for lost time and knowing that God's been here the whole time and he's ready with open arms and that. That. That is exciting.

A (22:04)

Yeah. And I'm excited for you because I love the Bible. And I know that, like, when you start reading scripture and maybe you don't feel like this, but I felt like this. And I've heard a lot of people say this, that it can feel intimidating because you feel like, okay, well, I been a Christian or I've been a Catholic my whole life. I shouldn't. I should know this. But, I mean, even theologians who have been studying the Bible their whole life still come across passages that they're like, gosh, that's hard to understand. And that's why I love so many resources. Like, I use a study Bible that has notes for. Okay, this is where he's located. This is what he's looking at. This is what he's talking about. This is what the word originally means in the Greek. And I'm not saying you have to have all that or know all of that for anyone out there, but it helps. And the Bible is so rich with meaning and gives so much clarity and so much understanding and so much grounding that when everything seems to change, you can go back to the Word of God for clarity. And so, like, I'm excited for you to, like, be on this journey and reading Scripture because there's so much to know and so much to understand, and it increases your love for God. The more you read the Bible, the more you love God.

B (23:15)

But I think that's why I ran away from it, because it's overwhelming, because it's so big and there's so much to know and so much to understand, and sometimes it's just. It's not easy reading. I think it depends on. Right? And I'm like, okay, I have enough trouble with, you know, reading normal. Yes, yes. And quite often I do audio for that reason. Because I can also multitask or it's on my beach walk or whatever. I know that I need what you gave me. I know that I need to see it and see it four times, like really absorb it and probably have six highlight colors and have a system with that. And I'm realizing it's like, that that's okay. Whatever it needs. But I think it's just been so overwhelming since the realization that I need it in the last few years. And then I have great excuses because life has taken over and moving and changing my life completely and becoming an empty nester and this, you know, the end of one career and the beginning of another, that I had no idea.

A (24:21)

Like, you've had so much change in the past few years.

B (24:23)

So much. But it's not an excuse, you know, it is a reason, and it's my reason, but it's not an excuse. And so here we go. And the fact that I don't have to do it alone is really exciting.

A (24:34)

Yes. And one thing. And you're already doing this, which is great. But I remember someone telling me this, like, okay, so when I was in college, and then after college, you don't realize that you are so not busy. Like, you think that you're busy, but I'm thinking about how much I slept in and I would wake up at like 9, and then I would have my personal quiet time until like 10, 30, 11, go to class. And I just had so much time. And I kind of thought that that's what a quiet time with God always has to look like, that I always have to sit there with my journal with my Bible for two hours and dissect everything. But then I became a mom and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired. I have so much going on. And so there have been seasons of life where I just haven't been reading the Bible until I thought of it, like, eating. And when you're busy, you don't skip a meal or just not eat that day. You find a way to do it.

B (25:25)

Wow.

A (25:26)

Even if it's just a protein bar, even if it's on the go, if you are feasting on the Bible, that means you take what you can get, how you can get it. So even though I too prefer to be sitting down highlighting and journaling and all of that, like, if, like this morning on the way in, we listened to Hebrews 1 in our Bible app and it, like read it for Us. And maybe I'll have more time to read the Bible today, but maybe I won't. But today there really is no excuse, and I'm preaching to myself just as much as anyone else, there's no excuse not to do anything. You've got to eat something.

B (26:00)

Yes.

A (26:01)

Um, so listen to it, skim it, do what you have to. Don't. If you tell yourself it has to be an hour every time, you won't do it.

B (26:08)

Right. You know, and then you. And then you feel like a failure. And then one day turns into two, turns into a week, and then you're done. But deep down, then you're beating yourself up more. And there's shame in that. Like, it's terrible what we can do to ourselves. My aunt, a couple years ago, going through stuff, it was actually when I was still at espn and just the ending there. The last couple years were tough and a couple things, but one thing she shared with me that I have continued to use and then shared with my kids is it doesn't have to be an hour or even 15 minutes. Ideally, right. But for, you know, younger kids in college age and they're on the run, and again, we all think we're busy at that time. Like, you know, when you're walking to class, you can just pray. No one has to know. You have to drop to your knees in the middle of the park or whatever. Sometimes it's a quick, Jesus, I trust in you. Three seconds, maybe two. I talk fast. And it's really fast. And it's just a really good reminder that you can pray anywhere at any time. And then if that becomes a habit, there's a real domino effect in a good way versus the other way.

A (27:25)

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B (28:47)

Yeah.

A (28:47)

And you know, my kids are in the itty bitty stage six, four and two. But that's, I mean, that's one of the goals of every parent. You want to maintain that relationship forever while not being their friend too early because they need the rule giver and they need the authority.

B (29:04)

Yes.

A (29:05)

So maybe that's like a big question, but just tell me about how you've kind of maintained what seems like a super healthy and sweet relationship with your three kids.

B (29:13)

That's so. Isn't that the biggest compliment with your children? Because it's something that we're forever questioning ourselves as mothers. You know, mine are now. Yeah. 23, 21, and 19. So we're on the exact same path as you with every other year. Oh, another baby. You know, it is definitely a friendship now with my oldest, Quinn, who's 23, graduated college in May and has a job and she works in Nashville. And she calls me her best friend. And I'm like, it brings tears to my eyes because I always heard that as a younger mother that someday, you know, you're in the throngs of it when older parents share that with you, someday they're going to be your best friend, but probably not until they're about 25 and you better buckle up and hang on and pray. True. All of those things. And it's here. No, it's not perfect. I annoy her so much, but, you know, she calls me more than I call her now. You know, I used to poke, poke and stalk her, as she said, you know, and now she calls and she FaceTimes all the time. And the other night we're trying to go to bed and she wanted to FaceTime and it was an hour and a half and, you know, Dave fell asleep and he's like, what time did you end up? And I'm like, I didn't tell him the truth because I didn't want him to be like, you can't, because I need my Sleep. And I'm bad about sleep. But I don't want to hang up with her, of course, because it took a long time to get to the point where she wants to talk to me, wants to call me, and she might like him more than she likes me. Honestly, it's. I love that. What a great problem to have each. What I would say is, like, each relationship with. With your. With each kid is very different and awesome in its own way. I think that's one thing that I had to learn throughout all those years is, you know, just because you have the same rules for each child, like, as it should be, you might have to communicate those rules slightly differently, and they might receive them differently, and the punishment is going to be the same, too. But the way that you communicate it sometimes, every kid, they're different human beings. So I think with age, of course, she's 23. My son Nicholas is 21, and my daughter Evan is 19, and she's a sophomore in college. Nicholas is about to graduate. So his. Our conversations now are so much different. And he is looking to me a little bit more, but also trying to prove himself like, I don't need you, and I know, mom, you have all these connections, but I don't need them or want them, and I don't offer them because I think that's a dangerous road to go down as well. They actually don't need me. They've proven they don't need me in those ways. They have their own talent and skill set, and that's. No, I don't want them to ever feel like that, probably to a detriment. I've always stayed way, way, way in the background. Do it without me. Trust me, it's probably better these days, depending on who you talk to, who might hate your mother. You don't want to mention that you're my child, you know, but it's been beautiful to see, you know, having them together at the wedding, all three of my kids, surreal. Again, not what I would have dreamt of. Right. Like, I got married and had kids the way we're, quote, unquote, supposed to do it. And to have them standing by my side, though, for parents who have gone through this divorce with children and then remarrying, oh, my gosh, it's so hard. And to blend families, it's so hard. And we're just in the beginning stages of it. But my kids have gotten to witness their mother finding love again, not having given up on it. And they get to witness me being treated like a princess by this man. And our relationship has changed, our friendship has changed and evolved with my kids because they've seen me with Dave and how that relationship has evolved too. So I feel like I have a better relationship with my kids now more than ever because they're. I think they appreciate me more. I hope. I think so. Some of them communicate that differently than others, you know, but they also see a softening in me where I think I was like this for so many years and because I was, you know, the mom and the sole breadwinner their entire lives, which has brought on a lot of pressure and I'm still that person. But they've seen me soften and to see me taken care of has made them soften towards me. So I'm still learning every day about how our relationship is evolving, you know, as mother and children, even though they're adults. But I think for so long I was afraid, you know, that they, that the friendship wouldn't get to this point. And we gotta earn it. Both the parents and the children have to really earn it and work hard and be kind and forgive. But I know now that they see me in a different light and it was worth all the hard work with still a long way to go. Yeah, it's really special.

A (34:27)

Are they all friends?

B (34:28)

They are.

A (34:30)

I love that. And that's what I want to know. How did you help foster that? Because, you know, that's what I want so much. And I always tell them, I'm like, I make them answer me, how long will you be sisters? And they say forever whenever they're in an argument. So what does that mean? That you're always going to be friends and you always need to be kind. And you know, I, I say that like, raising girls is relationship management from a very early age, whereas raising boys is a lot of injury management from a very early age. And we don't really, like, we don't have any ER visits or anything. We've got a ton of emotions and princess dresses and, you know, like, I wasn't raised with sisters. I'm an only girl. But I am like, I'm learning a lot about what that looks like and I am not, I'm realizing I'm not just raising a 6, 4 and 2 year old. Like, I'm ra. Raising a future 25, 23, 19 year old, and I want them to have each other's back forever. So, like, what advice can you give those of us who are in the thick of like, you know, the young and toddler years to help already start cultivating that love and that like.

B (35:36)

Yes.

A (35:36)

Between them.

B (35:37)

Yes. And while expecting this. Because they're going to.

A (35:41)

Yes.

B (35:41)

Right.

A (35:41)

And some of that is like you're learning to work through conflict, which is good. Yeah.

B (35:46)

I think it's super important. That is part of it. I would start a little earlier even. And my goal as a mother was to have my kids very close together now. What a blessing. I was able to. So many women are unable to. And that breaks my heart. If you can. It's people like, oh my gosh, it's a lot in my career and then two in diapers. It's like, yeah, it's hard and it's fleeting. Get over yourself, go do it. Because my dream was that at this age they would then be friends. And it has absolutely been the case. So I don't remember much from those years because when my third was born, my first was still three and I was on, you know, regional and national TV and you know that my husband was a stay at home dad. And it was at like, I'm sad in some ways because I was so busy and so stressed that I don't remember as much as I'd like to. I hope that they come up with some sort of pill that can help my memory just regenerate and come back. Because there were so many great times and it was a different era without cell phones, really. They were just coming on, you know, and so I don't, I don't have that video evidence like most parents today do with everything possible with their children. It is hard, but I would say if you are able, Lord willing, go for it and have them really close together, you know. Since then I joke around with them and I use a lot of humor and I'm like, guys, I'm gonna be dead someday. Hopefully not for a really, really long time. Cause I wanna make your life really difficult for a very long time. But someday when I'm gone, it is only you. You only have each other. So be kind like you're doing already. And then in the in between phase with friends and especially, especially with girls, because girls can be so difficult and catty and mean and they allow friendships to take precedence over the relationships with their siblings. And that's not okay, is it normal?

A (37:47)

Sure.

B (37:48)

Let's continue to teach them the lessons from it when they're in it, you know. And your loyalty must lie with each other. I love that my son is in the middle of these two girls. I've always been like, yep, my boy's in between these two psycho girls of mine. And they're crazy and love in all the best possible ways. He is the glue, you know, he's a peacemaker. He also will call me on stuff. He'll be like, mom, I think you were too hard on her on that, and here's why. And I'm like, ew, stay in your lane. I'm your mom. And then I'm like, he was right, you know? So the friendship is everything. And it also comes from, like, that desire to have them close together was because I have. I'm the oldest of three. I have a brother who's 21 months younger and then nine years younger than me. And I. I felt like it took me till I was an adult to get to know him because he was a different generation.

A (38:42)

Yeah.

B (38:42)

So he's 43. I'm 52. Like, it is completely different. I went to college. He was nine years old.

A (38:49)

Yeah.

B (38:49)

So for us, that's what worked. And I wish I would have had more. I do. I really regret that. And it wasn't. You know, I wasn't the one that was staying home. I was very present and turned on a lot of assignments through the years to be home. Didn't sleep much for a good 10, 12 years, honestly. So I don't want it to be like, I wasn't home because I sacrificed to make sure I was. I still feel it, physically and mentally. It was the best thing possible. But I just. People say, well, it's expensive to have kids, and it's tough. I'm like, yeah, huh? There are so many people who regret not having more. I always say, you'll never regret having more, but you might if you don't.

A (39:28)

Yeah.

B (39:29)

And somehow we always figure it out. Even financially, you figure it out. Especially when it's based in really the right reason. So I don't know. Sometimes they hate each other. But I did a show with just Dave and I. Actually, right before the wedding, Dave took my seat, kicked me out of my chair, and interviewed me on my own show two days before the wedding. And the bts, before the recording began was all three of my kids. They were in the condo at the same time because it was wedding week. And I had all three sitting next to me on the couch for a minute, and it was utter chaos. And it was like they turned into six, four, and two again. And they were like, poke, poke, poke, Elbow, scream, yell, throw something. I'm like, how old are we? And I loved it because they really are friends. So for as many things I feel like I failed at as a mom, I must have done a few things right along the way because they love each other.

A (40:28)

Next sponsor is Every Life. Every Life is America's Pro Life diaper company. Relatable is truly so blessed that we have so many unapologetically pro life and Christian companies. I love how this has taken shape over the past few years. There's this like parallel Christian conservative pro life economy over here and we need to do everything we can to be a part of that and to bolster that. So start getting all of your diaper products, your wipes, a lot of your baby products from Every Life. It's what we do. We only use Every Life diapers in our home. We love them made from totally clean materials. But I would not be using Every Life diapers if they didn't really work. They're totally trusty and I've just appreciated being able to partner with this kind of company that makes such a good product. They also have toddler training pants. So it keeps your busy toddler dry for all day play and night protection. No fragrances, no dyes, no lotions, no parabens. 360 degrees. Stretchy waistband, snug, secure fit that moves with your toddler. Try it out. Go to everylife.com use code ALI. You'll get ALI 10. Actually, ALI 10 to get 10 off your first order today. That's everylife.com code ALI 10. And not only your relationship with your kids, but I also noticed from what you post, your relationship with your parents is still really special and it seems really close, which not everyone can say that. I also super close to my parents, really close to my dad. Closer than we were growing up. We just kind of needed a little bit of separation for me to go to college and for me to grow into the adult that I always wanted to be. And then, yeah, you know, I rely on him so much. Call him all the time like your kids do. But you have maintained that relationship with. With your parents who have been married for how many years now? A lot of years.

B (42:23)

This October 16th is 54 years.

A (42:27)

54 years.

B (42:28)

You talk about a role model.

A (42:29)

Yeah.

B (42:30)

For a relationship. My parents are everything to me and I'm forever in debt. I never went through a bad phase as a teenager or even in college. I really didn't. I was such a goody two shoes. It was so annoying to everybody else in my life and I was such a pleaser.

A (42:50)

Except for the one time that you almost committed a felony.

B (42:55)

I did commit a felony that we.

A (42:56)

Were talking about off air. You were a goody two shoes. Except for that one time that you tried to commit identity theft.

B (43:04)

Yeah, I did. Well, I did commit identity theft.

A (43:07)

Actually.

B (43:09)

It's the fake id. If you. That's the worst thing I did. I always said to my mom and dad, I did have a government issued fake ID from college because I had to go to the bar that my boyfriend, soon to be husband, was going to. I was only 20 and I had to hang out. So I didn't tell them till years later. And I actually still have it. Is that a crime too? Probably. Don't come after me.

A (43:35)

Statute of limitations is good.

B (43:37)

I hope so. 31 years later. But I showed them and they were mortified. Oh, my goodness. And I was like, see, I wasn't perfect to my brother, see. But they, I don't know, like their. Their strength and what they went through to get to today. But certainly at the beginning of their relationship when, you know, back in 1971, it was shortly after interracial marriages were legalized, which is crazy to think about a black dad and a white mom. And it wasn't okay by everybody in their families. And they went through it.

A (44:19)

Wow.

B (44:20)

And my mom was told to choose between her family or my dad.

A (44:23)

Wow.

B (44:24)

By her parents. Her mother, more so. And the fact that at 22 years old, she had to make that decision. I'm in awe of her and that strength and the awe of my dad to make sure he protected her and had her back. And if anybody is really bored, I keep, on my ex account pinned a story that NFL Films did of my family like seven or eight years ago. And in that piece, it's like seven or eight minutes long actually too. I learned something about them and what they went through during that time and what my dad did to make sure that my mom's parents knew that even though you disowned her, that he was taking care of her. He was being a man and a leader and protector of my mother as she was devastated to have to make that decision. So I found out that story, details of that story through that NFL film space. I didn't know what a blessing to have that long after we're all gone for our great, great grandkids who know that they're only here because of the strength of my parents in that time. But I look back at that and what they went through, and I am. I'm in awe of them because not many people would have chosen that. And so I've drawn so much strength from them as a mother, as a wife, and trying to emulate how they've done things. Talking through a lot of difficult things with them, with divorce and being so scared to disappoint them, to disappoint God, like, so. So deep. And they, of course, are parents, and they have literally pulled me off the ground at times when I was like, I thought it was over. Life was over. So I. Yeah, I owe them everything. And I lately have been. Look at me, you know, I found this happiness with my husband, and I've noticed that I haven't talked to them as much every other day instead or third day instead of every day. And I'm like, oh, gosh, I can't let that happen. Because, listen, as a parent, you just want your kid to be happy, even if she's old. Like, you still want your kid to be happy, and that's all they want. So they're fine. But I've noticed it, and I miss that. So I need to continue to prioritize them. If anyone has Kleenex, I look like an idiot right now. Yeah.

A (46:54)

There we go.

B (46:55)

Thank you. You knew, didn't you?

A (46:57)

Thank you.

B (46:57)

One more.

A (46:59)

You've had to do that for me plenty of times, by the way, so don't worry about it.

B (47:04)

I have this fear, this real fear, because they're 79 and 76. My dad's been. He's actually at the Mayo Clinic as we speak right now as we're taping this in Jacksonville, outside of where they live for his cancer, which he's been dealing with two different kinds for 14 years.

A (47:24)

Wow.

B (47:25)

So strong.

A (47:26)

Yeah. He looks so strong.

B (47:27)

I know. He's almost 80, and you'd never know it. He looks, as he says, though, black don't crack, so he doesn't take all the. All the credit for it. I'm like, dad, whatever. He looks so young and healthy, despite what he's dealing with. His faith has grown so much throughout this cancer process, and it's incredible, and he's inspired us through it, but I just. I want to honor them in every way. And through a lot of it, I didn't think that I was, but I know now that I was. And just being true to myself, you know, even if it was stressful for them, because being true to ourselves can come with a lot of backlash when you're in the spotlight, as no one knows better than you, but they are my people. It was also such a blessing. I was fearful that when I found my person that they wouldn't be here to see it, for obvious reasons, as we age. So to have my kids there to witness it and my mom and dad to witness this. They are. Yeah, they're my best friends and I. I just want to continue to please them until. Until forever, you know? Yeah.

A (48:41)

Gosh, I think about how important that is to God, that one of the big Ten Commandments was literally honor your father and mother. Like, that's how much that relationship matters to him. And it just seems to me, just as an outsider looking in, like you've just done that so well. And I just can imagine how proud they are of you. And when you're talking about their story going back to them, taking a risk for the sake of not only love, but also just what was right, that these are two human beings, image bearers of God, no matter what their melanin count is. And God called them together. And what God has called together, let no man separate. That's what Jesus says. And that must have been at least in part, like where you got the strength and the courage to stand for what was true when it was, like, really risky to do that. Last sponsor for the day is netsuite. This is another one for you. If you are a business owner, you want to make sure that all of your metrics, everything that you need to keep organized, is in one place with one source of truth. This will help you be so much more efficient and effective. Over 42,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle. This is the number one AI, Cloud, ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform. It's a unified business management suite with that one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make really quick decisions, which is important, especially in times like these. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Alli Totally free. Go to netsuite.com Alli that's netsuite.com Alli. You've had this long career, this illustrious career, and it came to a point when like, truth was on the line and you took a risk. And can you talk to us about that? I know you've talked about your story a lot and, like, standing up for truth and ESPN and all of that, but can you take us back to that moment of having to, like, muster the strength and courage needed to represent truth?

B (50:57)

I had been suspended, punished at ESPN in 2021, as we tape this, exactly four years ago, I was suspended and in bed sobbing and scared to death of what was next. And yeah, I was suspended for speaking up about being forced to take the COVID vaccine in order to keep my job at Disney. Not everybody realizes ESPN and ABC are owned by Disney. So there's a lot of tentacles there. And I had to be fully vaccinated by September 30, 2021 or else. And I waited to the very last second. And I had prayed about it because I was ready to walk away. But as the sole wage earner with three kids and, you know, an ex, an alimony and all those things, like I had, I felt like I had to make the choice to do it, to keep my job. I still struggle with that. I feel like I caved. I did what I had to do at that moment with the knowledge that we had at that time, too. A lot has changed. And so I did it and I complied. And then I talked on a podcast about it. And while complying, I had literally come from getting the shot. So I was running a little bit hot, mad that I had to do it. And I said, I think it's sick and wrong for any employer to force an employee to do something to their bodies that they don't want to. Pretty simple. I said, but I love my job and I need my job. And here we are. And that was the beginning of the end. And I didn't know that it was because I did it. I took the job. You told me to do it. But at that time, yeah, it was a different world. And when I was pulled off the air and suspended, I mean, I had gone from, you know, kind of the model employee for all those years. I started in 2007 there. I didn't leave till 2023. Yeah, I was one of the longest tenured women at that network. And they really, you know, had a very solid, lucrative contract. And, yeah, they just crushed me. And then public apology that was forced to come from it. And of course, you just do it then you're just scared they scare you into it. I'm like, okay, I'll say and do whatever you want, whatever.

A (53:22)

So they suspended you in 2021, but you didn't stop working there until 2023.

B (53:27)

And the turning point in standing up for myself was after they punished me and continued to punish me even after the apology and after the suspension and continued to take events and opportunities away from me. That wasn't fun. But I realized that, Wait, you did that to me. But then my colleagues who happen to align with the narrative that Disney wants with everything, were able to go on an NBA show, basketball, and talk about how devastated they were that Roe versus Wade was overturned and abortion on A basketball show or the alleged lgbtq. Don't say gay laws in Florida that actually were never that right. On a football show, on ESPN airwaves. When I did it on a podcast on the side separating myself from espn. And I was honestly confused and asked questions, and they wouldn't answer and wouldn't answer.

A (54:19)

And it wasn't even political, what you said. No, it was about principle.

B (54:23)

It was about principle, and I separated myself. I think this is sick and wrong, but I did it. Onward. I'm going back to work. So the hypocrisy was thick. And it had been building for years, since Trump was elected and even really before then. But I stayed quiet on everything else in order to keep my job. And so the hypocrisy is when I said no and when I had to decide what no meant, and in this case, it was, do I stand up for myself to the point of filing a lawsuit against Disney. That was the scary moment. And I knew that I could no longer be silent, because then I'm a hypocrite. If I am preaching about standing up and standing tall to my children and then being quiet, I'm just as bad as everybody else. So the night I called an attorney, Brian Friedman, who has saved a lot of us, Megyn Kelly. He was Megyn Kelly's attorney when she was treated the way she was by NBC. Chris Harrison, the former host of the Bachelor, who was treated terribly by ABC as well and canceled for nothing.

A (55:29)

Both of them.

B (55:30)

Like, when you look back at that.

A (55:31)

Not to rehash both of their stories, but some people don't know Megyn Kelly. She made, like, a blackface comment. Not even, like, approving of it, just asking a devil's advocate question. Yeah, the outrage was crazy. And then Chris Harrison, for extending the benefit of the doubt or grace to someone who had gone to, like, an.

B (55:49)

Antebellum sorority in the South.

A (55:53)

Yes. And he didn't even say it was okay. He was just like, well, you know. And he was kicked off. I mean, it's crazy. It was a crazy time. I'm not sure if all of that would still happen today. Maybe it would, but it was such a hyper, like, witch trial time complet.

B (56:07)

And when you think about it, Chris's happened six months before mine. We had been dear friends, and he actually reached out to me to talk to my father. They had been friends. Chris and I hosted Miss America together years prior. Spelling bee, like, Crazy ties back with Chris and I. And he wanted to talk to my father as a black man to See here, look at the tape. This is what he said to my dad. Please. And tell me, did I say something wrong? Let me learn from him. And my black father, who lived through the civil rights era. Yeah. And broke the color barrier at West Point as the first black football player ever there and has felt true racism was like, young man, you did nothing wrong. Stand tall. But it was too. You know, it was too late in the eyes of society and social media back in 2021. Isn't it funny, by the way, that Megyn Kelly for asking a question about blackface and how. Remember in the 80s, this was her context. I think in the 80s, when. And people dressed up in blackface for Halloween and it was fine. And now a couple years later, it's not like, what is that? That's all her question was. I believe this week, Whoopi Goldberg talked about people. I don't even remember the full context with that. But, hey, just make your skin a little bit darker to blend in, and then you can help defend from the ICE agents like, whatever that was insanity. How there's so much hypocrisy there. So it's thick. And yes, it's changed. But their lives were altered forever, as was mine. I had to ask myself at that moment, how far are you willing to go? And I talked to you earlier about the harder right, which is part of the cadet prayer at West Point that my dad made us as kids memorize and make me to choose the harder right instead of the easy wrong and never to be content with a half truth when the whole can be one. And this was very clear at that moment that the harder right was to speak up and to probably throw my entire career and livelihood away, but to speak truth with it. It literally my situation was all encompassing, you know, compared to that prayer. And so that night, before the lawsuit dropped, I spoke to each one of my kids. Quinn was in college. The other two were in high school. And they each were scared because they knew what was going to come at them, including snide remarks from teachers that had already happened about lesser things. Coaches, their friends, parents, social media. My kids were attacked. People threatened to rape my daughters through the years because of opinions their mother has had, like, next level. So I wanted them to know what was coming, to never feel pressured to defend me ever, ever. But if someone brings it up, remember, diversity of thought. That's what we lead with. You don't have to agree with your mother, actually, but just remind people that we all have a right to our opinion and to be respectful and kind. And when I. I was apologizing to my kids as I said what was coming. I'm sorry. And my son, who was 17 at the time, looked at me and he said, mom, it's about time you stood up for yourself.

A (59:07)

Wow.

B (59:08)

What a lesson that my child taught me. That, number one, not only was I doing the right thing, but that he had been witnessing me doing the wrong thing for so many years. Even though my heart was in the right place and well intended to keep my job so I could support everybody, but to protect them from that ugliness that I knew would come. But I was teaching them the opposite of what I was preaching to them. I was teaching them to be quiet and just accept it and to take it. That was the wrong thing. So I knew, Ellie, at that moment, that even if I lost this lawsuit, pretty good chance. Talk about David versus Goliath. Like me versus Disney. Are you kidding me? But. And it sounds cheesy, and I've said it in public before, but I knew that even if I lost that I already won because my kids had seen me, like, being silent. And now at least they know that I stood up and I'm gonna go down swinging. So it was such a big, beautiful time within the scariest time. And I'm so grateful that ESPN crushed me and were hypocritical in their treatment of me, because I would never would have been backed into a corner.

A (60:23)

Yeah.

B (60:23)

To have to make that kind of a decision.

A (60:26)

And for those who don't know, how did the lawsuit end up?

B (60:29)

It ended up settling out of court with Disney. And from the moment of suspension to the settlement was 22 months.

A (60:40)

Wow. It's a long two years.

B (60:43)

Oh, my gosh. And then 16 months from the moment of when the lawsuit was filed to departure. So every single day I went on air with pending lawsuit, knowing Bob Iger and company, to say the least, did not want me on their airwaves and they had to pay me as well. But I was so scared to go in every single day because I knew my bosses had told me when I was coming off suspension. How many people hated me and were disappointed in me for my opinions and my thoughts on other things as well. And so when I went back to work the first day after my suspension, my mom and dad had come and driven down from Pennsylvania or up. I lived in Connecticut from Pennsylvania and were with me when I was on the floor and not eating and actually confined to bed because I got the worst case of COVID after taking the shot that was going to guarantee that I didn't get it. So there was just so much hypocrisy in all of it. And I was not healthy at that point. And my dad, while undergoing chemotherapy, they came anyway, because that's what parents do. And when I say, pull me off the ground, like, there. When they arrived, I was on the ground in between my coffee table and the couch. And, yeah, they literally lifted me up and then they were there. And when I went back to work, my dad turned into football player and coach Gary Steele and said, okay, ladies. I was with my best friend at the time, my makeup artist and my mom, and he's like, huddle up, and we're going to say a prayer, and you're going to go in there with strength, and you are not going to crumble. Because I was shaking. I'd probably lost £10 with my fears during the suspension. And we, you know, said, our Father, who art in heaven. We went through all of that. We. All of the things that we do as Catholics. And then he said, St. Michael the Archangel, protect us from the wickedness and snares of the devil. And. And I went into that building every single day from that day on, upon return from suspension, on the phone, talking to my parents, reciting that prayer before I walked in that building every day. And I literally felt. I felt protected. I knew God had my back because he had up until this point. Was he gonna quit now? I didn't think that he was. And so I envision this bubble around me as I walked in the doors every day and said hi to everybody, even those who quit talking to me and put the mic on and plug my IFB in and compartmentalized and live on the air every single day, national tv, two hours. And every day we said that prayer. And every day I felt stronger. And every day I did better. Like my performance, I can look back now and say it was the. The best work I've ever done with the least amount of fear and insecurity, which I'd always carried. I didn't show it on TV every day, but I felt it, and it started to go away, despite the hatred that I felt, literally. So I am so grateful for that time and for being backed into the corner to have to make the toughest decision ever. Aside from my personal life, it was the toughest decision ever. And my kids got to see. You gotta practice what you preach.

A (64:15)

Yeah. Well, thank you so much just for your example. I know you weren't trying to be an example for all of us.

B (64:22)

I didn't Want to. I didn't want any of this.

A (64:24)

You weren't trying to. You weren't a culture warrior. You weren't a political activist at that point. You just knew something was unjust and you said it. And you'd come from legacy of that. Like, that is your heritage, because your parents did the same thing in their own way. So I'm just grateful. I'm very grateful to you. And we need to see that in different spheres of the world, not just conservative media.

B (64:46)

Yeah.

A (64:47)

Because, you know, we get like. Of course, I genuinely believe everything that I say, but it's also, like, it's a job. We get paid for it, too. But you said the right thing when you were getting the opposite of getting paid for it. Like, you were getting let go and paying a lot of money because you said it.

B (65:05)

So I'm just. Thank you for saying that. And I had one person who reached out to me, very prominent, probably the most prominent at ESPN still. And he said, why would you do this? Like, why is it worth it? Why would you risk everything? And this is actually before the lawsuit. It was during other things I had said. He's like, what did he say? His exact words, I believe, were, yeah, how does this help you? And he's right. I don't know that it helps me in that moment. It hurt me. It did the opposite. And he was right. So when I look at the decision to file the lawsuit, it was building much sooner than I ever realized where. When you're pushed down repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Yeah. It was maybe dumb from a financial perspective. And if I wanted to keep that incredible job that I'd worked my whole life for, you know, at some point I'm gonna ask him about that and what he thinks now because he speaks quite differently now as well. Yeah.

A (66:18)

If it is who I'm thinking of, I can tell that. Yeah.

B (66:21)

Yeah. But. And it's okay because it brought. It made me. Me think about it. But that's why when I pulled that trigger, and I knew with the lawsuit, first of all, I knew there was no going back. And it was super cool, I think. I mean, it didn't feel good. But now to look back on those last 16 months with a pending lawsuit to still. I forced them to put me on air every single day. And I also. The biggest gift was to have people come up to me in the bathroom because they were afraid to say it in the hallway.

A (66:54)

Yeah.

B (66:55)

Or in private DMs from private personal accounts. Not work accounts, Disney accounts. You know, they were afraid. But they'd find a way to reach out to me and say thank you. You're standing up for more than, like, it would make me cry, Ali, Because I was like, okay, this is my little story right now. And my problem is so much bigger than me. And I realized that just by standing up and talking about being forced to take a shot that I actually was representing thousands of people at my own company because Disney is massive. So that's what kept me going, besides feeling it was the right thing. And for my kids, people I'll never have the opportunity to meet, who I realized, okay, they're afraid to speak up, and they should be. Look what happened to me. I'm the prime example of why you stay silent at that time. Now, there's many more examples, you know, And I wasn't a alone at the time either. But it was cool to realize this has nothing to do with me. This is so much bigger. And what a blessing that I got to be the one at that moment, at that network to have a big mouth and get in trouble.

A (68:06)

Yeah, well, I'm grateful. Okay, can we end on a very superficial note? Okay, this is the elephant in the room here, actually, and it is that you were just so incredibly beautiful. Like, yes, you are.

B (68:21)

Okay.

A (68:21)

And we all have to know how at 52 years old, you look the way that you do. And so we all, all of the related gals, maybe even the related bros out there, need to know what you do for your skin care. Is it really just as you said, black don't crack? Or do you have a secret for us less melanated girlies melanated.

B (68:42)

I don't think I've ever put.

A (68:43)

Heard it put that way so that when. And I am 52, I can look like fraction of what style looks like.

B (68:50)

I'm gonna move in. You guys are all great for my ego. Thank you.

A (68:53)

Anytime. Anytime.

B (68:55)

No, thank you. I have tried to really just own all of it the last few years. When you sit in front of a camera for your whole career and are judged based on what you look like versus your words, when I work so hard to memorize every statistic and to tell a great story within every highlight, and I only would have three and a half minutes for an interview live on SportsCenter, but you're darn right I'm gonna get. Like, they didn't listen to that. Some did more than I'd probably. I'm probably giving credit, but, like, it was judged based on this. And then you sit in front of a mirror and you have a makeup Artist, thank goodness. But then they're like, oh, your eyebrow is too low. You should get some Botox. And you know what? For like, three years, once a year or so, I would. For like, three years. For once a year, I'd go do it. And then I realized this is not who I want to be, and this is not who I want my daughters to be. To feel this pressure is so real. They already live it with social media. So several years, I just stopped, like, forget it. This is what it is. And yes, my genetics are super helpful, I guess. Thanks, mom and dad. But I mean, like, product wise, I use beef tallow. I slather it all over my face every night. That's it. I'm not great with water, and I need to hydrate myself better. Like, we all do.

A (70:24)

We all do.

B (70:25)

I am super passionate about exercising and being active and working out, especially. Cause my body is changing. I am in menopause. It sucks. It is real. It's different for every woman. The hormone stuff. Like, I've had to dive deep on that, and I'm failing at that, too, because I'm not taking the vitamins that they're giving me because of low. This high that. Honestly, I feel like I probably look healthier now because I'm healthier internally and I'm being kinder to myself. Not perfect. I had this wedding dress I had to fit into a month ago. That was super stressful. I'm like, these pictures are gonna last forever.

A (71:03)

Y' all looked great. Y' all both looked so good.

B (71:05)

No, thank you. I'm so grateful for it. But I truly feel. Along with, okay, exercise, eat well. I have the biggest sugar addiction. Like, it's terrible. I asked Dave. I have to have sweets every night. Like, have to. It's a requirement, I always say. Okay, some people are drug addicts. I could be a cokehead. All right, guys. If I need my chocolate, leave me alone. Like, there are worse things, you know? Yes. Try to do all the health things. But I'm. I'm finally being a little kinder to myself.

A (71:36)

Yeah.

B (71:36)

And I feel like it is reflecting in my. In my skin. Like, it sounds cheesy. And I'll. I will admit I've been gray since I was 25.

A (71:45)

Really?

B (71:46)

My hair is white.

A (71:49)

Oh, my goodness. Whenever you decide.

B (71:52)

So I. It's gonna.

A (71:53)

It's going to look so good.

B (71:55)

No, it's not.

A (71:56)

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Your husband agrees. He's kind of love.

B (71:59)

I don't think he. I don't think he actually agrees, but it's okay. At some point.

A (72:04)

It is whenever you decide it could be 20 years from now. But it will look really good.

B (72:09)

I think it'll look cool because I think the silver and darker complected people is really like my dad is that silver fox with black skin. And I love it. Yeah. No, listen, it means a lot and I need to accept the compliment, not be like, ew, right?

A (72:23)

Oh, my God, it was so funny when you did that because I was like, you can tell that you have 20 something year old daughters, because that's.

B (72:28)

Exactly how they would respond.

A (72:30)

Yeah.

B (72:30)

Ew, mom, stop. But I do. I believe it is so much more internal now. And I didn't think that before because we can do all the superficial things and that's great, but that's then what's happening inside. And I finally worked so hard on the inside through diving deep on some tough things and through my faith. Like, that's the full circle part of this conversation, is that I finally know that no matter what and how I look, my husband's gonna love me, my kids are gonna love me. Usually my parents are gonna love me. And most importantly, God loves me. He made me this way. For years I was told you have to straighten your hair on TV because that's not what TV anchors look like. Right. And so accepting who you are and then taking care of these bodies that you said to me earlier, we were given this, we have to take care of it. So thank you. And beef tallow.

A (73:26)

Okay, Beef tallow. I used the beef tallow too. So I'm grateful for that. I'm glad for the tip. Well, you are a woman to admire. And if people don't already subscribe to your show, how can they do that?

B (73:38)

I think I have it down. You can correct me when you say yes. Sage teal show on YouTube and everywhere that you enjoy your podcast.

A (73:47)

Yeah, everywhere you listen. So YouTube, listen, Spotify, Apple podcasts, all that good stuff. That's where people can subscribe.

B (73:53)

And I am kind of crazy on Instagram because I blow up my kids.

A (73:56)

Yes, you do post regularly on Instagram.

B (73:58)

Which I appreciate sometimes because these kids get a little. Sometimes, like I've used it to humiliate them in a kind way. Like, I told you to clean your room. And it's been a week and so now I'm walking in and it's going on Instagram stories. And because their friends follow me, guess what? The rooms are cleaner. So you see, you see?

A (74:15)

Okay, There you go. That's the thing that you can do for your adult children that you don't do to your little children. They get to a certain age and public shaming is, like, socially acceptable.

B (74:23)

Yes.

A (74:23)

I'll log that away for future parenting advice. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate your authenticity so much, and this was so good to get to know.

B (74:31)

It means so much that you had me on. Thank you.

A (74:33)

Thank you. You.